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| Neural | Posted
on 15-Jul-03 09:19 PM
Dear Friends, The following notes might be useful to those who are interested in pursuing Ph.D. degree or who r currently a doctoral student/researcher. Thank u . ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thoughts on Getting a PhD Matthew Turk UCSB Computer Science The following are personal opinions and observations (based on a modified version of a presentation by H. T. Kung at CMU in 1987). These are not department or university policy. The PhD process is sort of an apprenticeship. Youre not there just to do a thesis; youre there to become a mature and knowledgeable researcher in your field. Sometimes this means working on non-thesis-related projects for a time, helping out with lab/group duties, giving lectures, giving demos to various people, helping the advisor with reviewing or proposal writing, etc. etc. All of these distractions can be quite useful to you later on. The PhD process is long and arduous. Many (most?) people consider quitting at some point. It helps to have clear goals at the beginning, to remind yourself while in the midst: Why do I want to do this? Am I committed to persevering through it? 1. Whats a PhD thesis all about? " A PhD thesis represents a substantial body of work. It should be marked by high quality and substantive results. It should push the frontier of knowledge. It should mark you as an expert in your area. " Thesis research is partly intended to ensure that the student can later take on independent, long-term research commitments. " Faculty are judged by the theses of their PhD students " High quality PhD theses is one of the most important factors contributing to the success of leading universities " PhD thesis research is a big challenge. It is difficult. There is no simple formula for success. There is no clear standard for a PhD thesis 2. Typical stages of graduate student life (in chronological order): " Knowing everything (A little knowledge is a dangerous thing) " Knowing nothing (I am not worthy) " Gaining confidence (Hey, I can do this!) " Knowledgeable and confident (Based on real experience) 3. Here are some things a PhD thesis might do: " Open up a new area " Provide a unifying framework " Resolve a long-standing question " Thoroughly explore an area " Contradict existing knowledge " Experimentally validate a theory " Produce an ambitious system " Provide empirical data " Derive superior algorithms " Develop new methodology " Develop a new tool " Produce a negative result 4. Advisors: " Your advisor does not know everything. Your advisor may not always be right. Your advisors knowledge in some areas may be obsolete. Remember, the only one who is ultimately responsible for your progress and success is you. " On the other hand, most likely your advisor does know a thing or two, so dont ignore or avoid him/her. " Advisors are real people, and they may do crazy things like change jobs, change research interests, or be denied tenure. Dont despair, there are usually ways to work these things out. " If at all possible, keep a good and open relationship with your advisor. Your advisor usually has lots of influence even after you graduate. He or she should be genuinely interested in your well-being, and may even be a mentor for your entire career. Mostly likely, your advisor will be writing letters of recommendation for you if they are not strong, that can hurt. Despite the pressure to always make things look good to your advisor, the best course of action is to be open and honest at all times. 5. Suggestions: " When you have the chance, schmooze! Get to know people in your field: the faculty in your department, other grad students at your university (in your department and others), other grad students from other universities, faculty and researchers from all over (especially those whose work you know and respect). Dont just wait to be introduced (although your advisor can certainly help here) introduce yourself. Talk with visitors to your department, aggressively meet people at conferences. You never know who will have a job for you, or ask you to be on a good program committee, or play some other helpful role sometime in the future. " Consider your fellow graduate students as a very valuable resource ask them questions, see how they do things, tell them your ideas, brainstorm with them, learn from them! Dont just hang out on your own, or you will miss out on a lot, both personally and professionally. " Think. Dont just do. Set aside time to explore ideas. Thinking is more important than reading. " On the other hand, dont procrastinate. Set aside time to code, experiment, build, or whatever. Dont think you have to understand everything before you can begin to make progress. " Early in your PhD career you will be taking courses, jumping through various hoops (like a qualifying exam), maybe helping with other, unrelated projects, and perhaps working summers in industry to get some valuable experience (and a little cash). Later in your PhD career, you should be focused on your research. Learn to say no to distractions, especially after the first year or two. ------cntd. |
| Neural | Posted
on 15-Jul-03 09:21 PM
....cntd. 6. Stages of PhD thesis research " Selection of the area " Selection of the advisor " Becoming a researcher in the area o Building up general knowledge and experience o Learning the important issues and questions in the field o Learning the cutting edge work in some areas o Some useful things to do: § Read recent proceedings of the best conferences, and ask more senior people what were the best papers. Try to figure out what makes a great paper (and thus what makes great research). § Keep a notebook that contains your research notes. Put all of your empirical data and initial ideas in the notebook. Make notes on a paper as you read it and think about the assumptions of the author and the importance of the results. § Follow references from one paper to another until you know an area extremely well. Don't count on your advisor to hand you all of the relevant papers out of his file drawer. He/she doesn't have them all! § Build a mental model of what has been done in your area. Look for holes interesting areas that have not received much attention. " Thesis proposal o Most crucial stage, since everything flow from here. Later problems can often be traced back to a weak thesis proposal. o This is where you need your advisor the most o Main challenge: come up with an approach and/or an experiment. o Dont just go with your advisors opinions or recommendations (unless you truly believe them). This is the best time to argue with your advisor! o Research plan Overview of the expected course of research. Must be flexible, but not vague. o Need to elaborate on the focus, the approach, experiments or systems to build, potential impact o Forming a committee Choose people who can help with needed expertise if possible, especially if you have an interdisciplinary topic. o Thesis proposal questions: § What is your approach and what is new? § What is your secret weapon? § How do you measure your own progress? § What are the success or completion criteria? § How will the expected results change the-state-of-the-art? o Hints: § Be honest dont exaggerate your claims, be open with the weaknesses (better for you to raise them than for someone else) § Pick a problem/project of manageable size. It is much better to do an excellent job on a moderately sized project than a moderate job on a large project. § Prepare a tentative month by month schedule, with milestones, for your work. Be realistic. And flexible, but not vague. " Producing results o Keep your advisor and committee informed. Dont wait until you have a breakthrough result, keep them informed regularly. o Talk about major choices with your advisor before youre completely committed to them. " Knowing when to stop o How much is enough? Your thesis does not have to solve every possible related problem. Talk with your advisor about what a reasonable stopping point might be. Re-visit the issue occasionally. o If the principles and boundaries of your thesis work were clearly defined from the beginning, this should not be a problem. " Writing o Writing is very time consuming. Really. Dont plan on writing it up in a hurry. o Dont spend excessive time fiddling with fonts, formatting, etc. o Do take care in producing good content proper English with no spelling errors, typos, etc. o The document should be well organized and easy to read, not just a bunch of math or results, and not just a chronological record of what you did. o Write for an audience educated in your general field, but not just for an expert in the particular subfield. o Motivate the reader make sure the reader understands the problem, why its interesting and relevant. Whats the Big Picture? o Remember, few (if any) readers will have your background. Dont assume they know everything you do. o Write the introduction last (or at least re-write it last). " Comments from the committee o Committee members are very busy people. Dont expect them to go through several versions of your dissertation. o You want to give them an optimal version for them to comment on some time before the final version not too preliminary, not too finished. " Defense o This should mostly be a formality, at least from the advisors point of view. That is, he or she shouldnt let you get to this point if youre not really ready. There should be no surprises for the committee. o However, its still important: § The defense gives you a chance to get feedback for final improvements to the thesis. § Many people (the committee and the audience) may form their opinions of you and your work from this one event § Presentation material can be used for future presentations (job talks, etc.) o You should know firmly what the main ideas are, and present them clearly. o Set the defense date well in advance it can be difficult to get the committee together. " Afterwards o Usually there is some work to be done (often minor) requested by the committee o Publications: conferences, journals, book o Are you the sole author of these publications, or is your advisor a co-author (even though you wrote it)? § No single answer, but typically the advisor has been very involved and deserves credit of authorship. Ideally, he or she will also help with writing (and re-writing, and proofreading) the subsequent papers. o Follow-on work Are there more ideas or paths to take on this problem? Youre now the expert, so why not keep working on it? Starting over on something completely different is not so easy, especially if youre going to be looking for research funding. o Take a vacation you earned it! gud luck :)))) |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 15-Jul-03 09:33 PM
thx neural....very useful info. |
| Neural | Posted
on 15-Jul-03 09:36 PM
welcome Bhunte |
| Arnico | Posted
on 16-Jul-03 06:14 AM
Neural, that was a surprisingly good summary that is still as relevant today as it was in 1987 when it was published. It's also interesting to note that almost everything in it applies to PhD's in any field... |
| kps | Posted
on 16-Jul-03 08:35 AM
Neural Thanks for info |
| wizard of oz | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 04:30 AM
I wonder why we do PhD? PhD is a long and torturous journey to achieve a certain information (knowledge). It does not guarantee us money and good life. It adds complexity to life (due to over-expectation). Typify an individual as an academic and serious nature. You are often over-qualified for jobs. Even your wife JISKAYING you as BIRAMI NAJACHNE DACTAR SAB BHANER. I did it because there is nothing much to do after masters and it was better option than go back to Nepal. It was a good experience and I am not sorry of doing it. Love to share experiences from Sajhaites on WHY....???? |
| Neural | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 05:08 AM
In my opinion, at present, Masters degree has become essential, and Ph.D. degree is an optional one. After obtaining masters degree one has two choices. Either going for job in any Industry, company/any other related field OR prusuing Doctoral Degree. Usually, those who r interested in building up his/her career in academic line, they go for Doctoral Degree. However, for the US case, it may or may not be applicable as wizard of oz says - "I did it because there is nothing much to do after masters and it was better option than go back to Nepal" It still depends on one's interest. However, after Ph.D. degree, it is also not essential that one has to catch up academic career only. He or she can join a research co./industry (according to his/her degree) as a researcher, and go on doing new researches and publishing the paper, participating in int'l/national conferences. Also, can work as a visiting Prof. to any Universities. This is just my view point. Thank you. |
| ugly duckling | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 06:40 AM
Here are some of the reasons why I decided to get a Phd. 1. I wanted to be the first female in my family getting Phd, and be a inspiration to the others (cross your fingers). 2. I was not willing to settle with 30-40K per year. 3. As grad school would be free for me, and I would have a stipend coming in, why not slave myself for next 4-5 years so that I can make 100K a year in the future. 4. I am working on a project which could make a difference in the world. 5. You can take a vaccation when you want (if you have an understanding advisor). I took 6 weeks off last year, and this year, I am planning to take a month off to go to nepal again...:). 6. You are still a student, so you can still get discounts with your student ID. 7. Of course, I won't have to worry about putting Ms. or Mrs. It will go to Dr. |
| Echoes | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 09:58 AM
Of course, everyone has a different story but some of you might find my reasoning relevant to your situations: There is no doubt that getting a Ph.D. is an incredibly good idea regardless of the field you want to specialize on. However, I have decided not to go for it at the moment although I find ugly duckling-ji's arguments appealing. My pragmatic reasons not to start a Ph.D.: 1. Unknown number of years with a backpack on. (4-5 is not guaranteed, in many cases. I have seen a guy who still hasn't finished his Ph.D. in 8 years!!!). 2. Losing your common sense. (Sad but true, I don't think any Ph.D. scholar is really "sane", outside of their own world.). I don't think you can have both (a Ph.D. and an every man's common sense). They train you to lose the latter. Only other Ph.Ds will understand what you are really talking about! 3. Limited scope of opportunities once you have finished it. (Reportedly, they don't hire a Ph.D. if they are looking for a Master's degree holder. Not only that you over-qualify, they also don't find it desirable) Most of the time, you are left with a teaching job only although I think that's a great profession. 4. Because of #3 above, I don't think $100K is all that easy to get. Statistics show that there is a very little difference in the salaries that Master's degree holders and Ph.D. doctors make. But I don't think you do a Ph.D. for money, really. 5. For non-immigrant students (F-1 visa holders) in the US, I think it is particularly too risky (immigration-wise) to go for a Ph.D. in these difficult times. You are really going to spend another 4/5 years as a student and Mr. Ashcroft or whoever is in-charge may change the immigration laws and it may be much more difficult for you to switch your status to something else at the time you finish your Ph.D. If you have an employer now to sponsor you a work visa and a "Green Card", I think you are better off taking the job and getting a green card as soon as possible than go for a Ph.D.. Of course, if you don't care whether you will be allowed to stay in the US after your Ph.D., then this reasoning won't matter to you. 6. Due to all of the reasons above, it will be challenging (although may not be impossible) for you to start a family while you are still doing your Ph.D. For some, it might be little too late to wait until the Ph.D. is done! So I decided I won't do a Ph.D. now. |
| Neural | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 10:20 AM
I do agree 101% with ugly duckling. The reasons behing me to pursue Ph.D. are: 1) i got full scholarship for Ph.D. with handsome monthly stipend ( no need to hunt for part time jobs) 2) I got chance for Ph.D. soon after ( a month gap) the completion of Masters. 3) I will be completing Ph.D. by the end of 2005 (date is aldy fixed by univ. rule) (i don have to wait 4 or 5 yrs... or > ... duration is three yrs only) ### Due to all of the reasons above, it will be challenging (although may not be impossible) for you to start a family while you are still doing your Ph.D. For some, it might be little too late to wait until the Ph.D. is done! ### -- Echoes 4) I feel myself lucky being a doctoral student at a young age....[so no matter to start a family life] ####3. Limited scope of opportunities once you have finished it. Most of the time, you are left with a teaching job only although I think that's a great profession. ###--Echoes 5) After Ph.D., one can start an academic career or work as a researcher in the Industry/Co. related to his/her field/area. Furthermore, many doors are open. NO DOUBT. Hence, it depends on a person either to go for Ph.D or start working after Masters. Whatever the field u choose, go for it seriously. Thanx. |
| ugly duckling | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 10:59 AM
Neurals, i was counting 4-5 years directly after an undergraduate degree. Looks like, you and I will be defending our thesis about at the same time. |
| Arnico | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 11:09 AM
I'll probably be defending some time in 2005 as well... :) and my reasons are similar to Ugly Duckling's... (except that as a male I don't face the Ms. versus Mrs. issue)... plus I *really* am interested in working in academia. |
| Neural | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 11:32 AM
UD and Arnico.....gr8 to hear that we gonna defend our final thesis exam around the same time. Wat a coincidence!!!!!!! Mine will be around AUG/'05 and graduation on Sept/'05. BTW, what's ur research area? mine is AI application on P. Syst. using ANN/Fuzzy/GA |
| Echoes | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 11:34 AM
Good luck to each of you, scholars! If the situations are right, I'm sure it's going to be a worthwhile venture. |
| Deep | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 12:06 PM
ma pani sochdai chhu mauka milyo bhane--jahile ni hatar ma sural ko iijar kholana khojda gatho kina parchha bhanne ma--phd. thoki diyoun ki kya ho-- khai kya ho kya ho! |
| gator_guy | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 04:50 PM
dear mitras,, i really don know how i got motivated to go for my dagdari degree. But guess its the situation that lead me to start my doctorate. My parents were not educated,,despite that my buwa always suggested me to make a phd degree. ANd with subjects (hard science) that i work for,, its hard to get good jobs unless one gets the highest degree. So, coupling effect of my father's dream and my interest to have better life must have inspired me to go for this degree. To my knowledge,, i am second in my all nata gotas to go for a doctoral degree,, one of my mama hajur did it 25 years ago from amrika (budho jamana ma khatara thiye areee). i think with jobs in academia/research,, we have more control over our time and self interest.. just now my friend arrived from arizona,, our team is in very hard time to finish with the research,, still i left my work.. decided i work for all night after i take care of my friend. guess that wuld be a bit difficult in private sector. so i suld say,, life is more comfortable in academia jobs (tho thats the most difficult to get). aba rahayo paisa ko kuro,, hoina manchee lai kati paisa kamaunee,, i don think life becomes different for ppl getting 50K and 80K in the USA. So i don mind getting a bit lower pay for working hard in academia. and overall, I think the biggest advantage of a phd degree is weherever u go on earth,, u manage to make an above average life,, whether u be in USA or in Okhaldhunga,, life does not have much complains. and after doing my dagdari,, ma taa nepal nai jane bichar ma chuu. I still remember what i studied in my (guess) secondary school "dui thopa pasina chuhaee pani afni janma bhuma ma chuhaunuu" je pare parlaa,, ma pani 2006 ma saknee mood ma chuu,, herum kaso hola. |
| lonely | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 05:12 PM
i was very determined to start my phd in fall 2004...now I really have to think it over...with the above comments re kya. This is my second MBA and I will be completing soon, but I still think academics is the best field for me... Khai herau ke hunchha, but its good to hear that so many people from sajha age going to be dirami najchane dactor soon..hhehe..best of luck and congratulations in advance.... |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 05:22 PM
The thread is getting wider attention... Neural said: <<<<<<< 3) I will be completing Ph.D. by the end of 2005 (date is aldy fixed by univ. rule) (i don have to wait 4 or 5 yrs... or > ... duration is three yrs only) >>>>> Where in this earth i can find a university that sets the duration to complete PhD in three years? Even best universities in the earth like Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Univ of Chicago, ...the duration for the PhD is usually 5-7 years. Moreover, the duration depends on what program you are into... Even the univ sets the duration, it waives that constraints depending the nature of research one undertakes. Dissertation advisor has to recommend for that if one wants to go beyond the set date....Probably it may be in European or Australian Universities one where one gets doc degree by research. But in USA, one has to take certain credit hours of core and field course works, go through qualifying/comprehensive exams, exam for PhD candidacy by successful defense of research proposal and finally oral defense of the dissertation. All of them are time consuming and about 20% of the students survive the whole process due to academic and financial reasons....(sorry, the number is not to discourage aspiring people but thats the hard fact in America). Only exceptional students may finish PhD in 3 yrs given he has done some prior research for his dissertation.....I understand that university rule is for average students, but not for exceptional student. Just a thought. Gator_guy: I am with you and Best wishes for you.... |
| ashu | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 06:40 PM
I think it really boils down to what you really want to do with your life. If you enjoy doing research, want to be in academia, teach students and engage in pure or semi-academic work (reading, writing and publishing) for the rest (most) of your life, then, earning a PhD in your field is a must for career success, especially in the US. You can't even apply to most tenure-track jobs in academia without a PhD. [Law schools are exceptions in that most law professors do NOT have PhD degrees, though that trend too is changing as top law schools seem to be hiring a number of JD-PhD wallahs in recent years.] If you, however, want to be a banker or a management consultant or a development practitioner or a lawyer or an artist or a journalist, then, you don't really need a PhD. In Nepal -- which does NOT have a strong research tradition -- I see PhDs losing their luster every year. To be anecdotal, there is this guy who has a PhD in tourism studies. But I, for one, would NOT take tourism-related advice from him. His ideas make no sense to me. O the upside, though hardly anyone respects him as an expert, everyone calls him "daktar-saheb". oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 06:47 PM
well well ashu ji, nepal ma khasi lai kukkur bhanera tehi kukkur ko masu khane haru pani ta kam chhaina ni hajur...in jest |
| ashu | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 06:54 PM
Bhunte, In my limited experience, I have not come across such people. But all things being equal, I'd rather take a curious, persistent, able to learn new thngs quickly, and smart Nepali to discuss ideas than somebody with a PhD who is not curious, who disdains others and who pushes theories even when evidence seems to contradict the very basis of those theories. oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| KaleKrishna | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 07:14 PM
Guys and gals also put me in the group expecting to get dagdari degree in 005. Already a doc in front of name, people always asked me where you did your PhD, now I will have univ to mention. gator guy, apreciate your patriotic feeling, hope to follow your trend |
| suva chintak | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 07:28 PM
Daju bhai haru, I am a tantoori guy, what do I know about Ph.D. ? After seeing the debate on this thread I decided to seek enlightenment from a komalangini who goes to a big name university around here. When I saw the satiated glow in her after she had downed a hearty lunch special, I asked ventured to ask her, "Mem Saheb, Ye Ph.D. kya hota hai?" She rolled her large, blue eyes and said languidly "Ph.D. = Piled Deep and High!" She is in her sixth year and trying to finish her dissertation. Does that ring any bells with you guys out there or has this blonde got it all wrong? Injest |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 07:46 PM
Ashu jyu, but, at least you must be aware of leg pulling traditions and how to let one down .... what one learns during his advanced degree in western universities may not be so relevant in the context of our contry's "mato, hawa, pani, etc.". I can not disagree with you on the point u have raised. I have observed that 70% of the students who make university entrance end up with some sort of Jagir/settled life after their undergraduate degree even in USA. Quality undergrad education is more than enough for Nepal's case, and that even applies in USA case for day to day tasks. You are better learned in that respects.... Foreign students into advanced degree programs are usually limited by financial resources to carry out his dissertation research, and may not be able to think of their own country's problem even if he wants. Even one has a fellowship, there is no provision for dissertaion research in the scholarship package, but I was among few luckiest to get one such package with some other offers from different international agencies to work on their research in developing country's problem. But, I decided to work on my professor's research basically due to all kind of chaos in Nepal. Therefore, most foreign student resorts to what he has at best at hand and built up a dissertation there. Most of those research aren't on student's country's problem,and most of the Professors don't give a damn in development country's issues. They are only worried with something contributing, publishable in peer reviewed journals, etc. Further, I doubt if Nepal's problem can offer any in the advancement of body of knowledge (except in few areas), and PhD dissertation is the one where the advisory committee expects to maintain that standard at least in US universities. About the tussel between theory and empirics, there can be few exceptions but theory is basically a logic/fact which ought to be true. I base any empirical models on theories and to get expected result, one need good quality data which I doubt nepal can offer for now... thats all for now |
| suva chintak | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 07:46 PM
Thoda correction ho jaya: She said: Ph.D. = Piled High and Deep! |
| ashu | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 08:27 PM
Bhunte wrote: "They are only worried with something contributing, publishable in peer reviewed journals." Well, I think that's the way it should be. Academia, at least in the US, rewards those who publish papers in such journals, and whose work is cited widely by peers. I find it OK if a piece of research does NOT solve a practical problem of Nepal or of the world right away or ever. I like the fact that US universities have Greek or Latin-language scholars whose research -- let's face it -- is not immediately applicable to the world right now, but whose work is very, very important nonetheless . . . to help us understand ourselves better. My point is: Academic research need NOT be driven to solve a problem. It could just as well be a respect-earning thought experiment in and of itself, and that's fine too. Hence, were I a legislator, I would press for more research in the basics -- the basics of sciences social sciences and the humanities. In Nepal, we need ore emphasis on basic research. Finally, with the possible exception of mathematicians, for most scholars, their best academic work comes years AFTER their PhD work, and often in areas that have little to do with their original PhD research. Again, drivers of success are: adaptability, curiosity, self-motivation, persistence and drive. oohi "intensely interested in what universities do and why they do what they do" ashu ktm,nepal |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 08:44 PM
Ashu ji, you are inspiring to most Sajhites as always with that last sentence.... I am not sure if Nepal can afford for basic research--western world has already exhausted most of basic research part (if i really understood what basic research you meant!!)...I am for problem oriented one in Nepal's case.... |
| SelfExplorer | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 08:52 PM
Whatever you do is OK, but don't you ever come to Canada with that Ph.D. Degree. I met a Limosuine driver with Ph.D. He told me that there are hundreds more. Your Ph.D degree will be honoured to become a taxi driver, here in Canada. |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 09:07 PM
SelfExplorer, you may be true...but two of my friends in Canada with that degree--one is Asst. Professor, and another a Banker. |
| Neural | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 10:31 PM
Good to c many participants. gator_guy : 100/100 --- wishing u a gr8 success in ur current research. You have really encouraged all of us. Appreciating yaa Bhunte: "Even the univ sets the duration, it waives that constraints depending -----------that if one wants to go beyond the set date...." "Where in this earth i can find a university ----------------PhD in three years? Even best universities -------------PhD is usually 5-7 years. " Bhunte, u r right, absolutely right. That one has to go for course work/ candidacy exam etc etc.........no doubt @ at all. Yes, the US universities are the best in the world for education........vanchhan neee "padhne vaye USA jaanu, Ladai garne vaye UK jaanu ra Goru le jotya jhai kaam garne vaye Japan jaanu" . As you know, education system is not same in all the countries. If u go to UK or other european country ( i guess it is Norway too), u will be doing Masters in 12 months. My frn did, and now he is doing Ph.D. in Cambridge. I did masters in 20 months, where as in TU Delft Univ. in Holland, it is 2 yrs..........in US, it may take more years cuz summer break, winter break or any other kinda extension etc etc., may be for someone less than 20 months...depends. In Japan, a Ph.D. scholar will have to graduate within 3 yrs (if he/she is awarded Monbukagakusho Scholarship, govt. of japan) with minimum nos. of int'l journal publication. The session for all int'l students starts from OCT (lets say 2003) and ends on SEPT (2006). The student will be receiving monthly stipend for the pd. of 36 months. However, u may or may not go for credit course. U might have to carry out only ur research work and go on publishing journal/proceedings/conferences papers as much as u can. It all depends on ur superviser. See the difference in the US and JAPAN. If u go to Asian Institute of technology (www.ait.ac.th), Thammasat univ in Thailand, there also 3 years for those who are enrolled in full scholarship program. Actually, what i meant to say is "those who r enrolled in full scholarship program as a scholar", there is deadline for them. "scholarship bhaneko luteko dhan fupuko sradha garna dine ta hoina ni" If he/she crosses the duration, he/she wont get any further stipend.. but can continue the doctoral work by her own. Ashu ji, thx for everything. Lonely, gud luck to u too. SelfExplorer: r u joking? thanks to u all. |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 17-Jul-03 10:54 PM
Neural, i was guessing so.... Mostly professors and undergrad students enjoy those summer/winter breaks u mentioned, but graduate students end up that break mostly in term papers, qualifying/comprehensive exams, preparing research proposals, working on research, etc. Further to add to your proverb: budha paka say "Bidhya napaye Kashi janu, Nyaa napaye Gorkha janu"..... ani bichar ko landai ladne nai ho bhane Sajha ko kurakani ma janu....kaso hajur? |
| Neural | Posted
on 18-Jul-03 12:08 AM
Bhunte jyu, "ani bichar ko landai ladne nai ho bhane Sajha ko kurakani ma janu....kaso hajur?" yo chahi ek dam sahi ho..............saayad Sampurna Sajha baasi le pani sweekarchha hola. anyway thx hajur. |
| ugly duckling | Posted
on 18-Jul-03 07:53 AM
gator_guy, Jobs in academia are not quite easy as you have generalized. Of course, it depends on the university, department, and the professor himself/herself. Since I know more about the pure science, i will focus on it. If one is planning to go to a teaching school (mainly focusing on undergraduates), the professors get summer breaks, Christmas breaks. They are busy teaching during the semester, and have flexible hours. But again, they are under quite a bit of stress on developing a new curriculum for the students, and keeping up to date on the new advances. The biggest challenge of being in a teaching school (my point of view) is the professor has to have the patience to teach the student who is taking the class because he/she has to take the class. But, if one is going to a research based university (more like Harvard, Cal Tech, Berkley, MIT etc.), the professors are under pressure of writing grants, proposals so that they have money to work on their research, pay their students, and pay their summer salary. Again, they are in the competition to publish their work before their competitors do. They spend a lot of hours in their office or traveling (presenting their work). This might sound crazy, but my advisor didnt take a vacation for three years, and he works even on Saturdays. Adding to Neural's comment on duration of getting a Phd - it depends on the program, school, advisor you are in. If one wants to get a Phd in Economics, be ready to commit for 7-8 years. If one is serious about getting a Phd, do shop around (schools, programs, advisors -all play a big role). |
| Arnico | Posted
on 18-Jul-03 09:19 AM
I am curious to see hear what fields of study my Nepali colleagues in graduate programs are currently pursuing, and how that relates to more general interests. Let me start by describing what I am doing: while my general interest (and undergrad as well as masters level training) involves a broad range of topics related to sustainable development, I chose to pursue a doctoral degree in the physical sciences. My advisor is an atmospheric chemist based in a Program on Atmospheres, Oceans and Climate, and for my general examination I needed to know something about meteorology, chemistry, cloud microphysics, oceanography and climate dynamics. My own research focuses on air pollution in mountain-enclosed valleys. |
| Echoes | Posted
on 18-Jul-03 09:36 AM
Bhunte-ji (on 07-17-03 7:46 PM) said: "Most of those research aren't on student's country's problem, and most of the Professors don't give a damn in development country's issues." I think this a more serious problem than how Ashu-ji decided to pick and comment on only the supplementary statement that followed. As far as I understand from what Bhunte-ji has said, a foreign student in most US schools does not have the liberty of selecting a topic of her/his interest for the PhD research mainly because the advisors inappropriately reject the topic. I understand Ashu-ji's point that a research study need not be on solving a problem of the student's native country, but I think that if s/he wants to do so on a reasonable topic, appropriate attention and resources should be given. The failure in doing so may be responsible for producing scholars who lack expertise on the very areas that they want to specialize on. This can be more of problem if the scholar must return back to her/his home country upon completing the PhD, where the areas of her/his expertise cannot be applied. So somehow I find a connection between this problem that Bhunte-ji has expressed and "daktar-saheb"'s inability to provide Ashu-ji with advice that "make sense". Ugly Duckling-jyu--I take it that you admit the picture isnt as rosy as some people here seem to think, huh? :) Respectfully Yours, Echoes. |
| gator_guy | Posted
on 18-Jul-03 02:22 PM
dear Folks, just thought of sparing few minutes. Ugly duckling,,i agree that working in academia is not that easy,,. its stressful but still u have better control over ur time schedule. aba kuro garum dagdari garera Nepal gayera ke garnee. TEACHER BANNE NII,padhaunee ani ali ali research pani garnee,,,. i have GREATLY felt the need of good teachers in our country (at least where i studied from).. i am not convinced with how many teachers taught me in nepal.. So, want to make sure that the same problem not come up with generation of 10-15 years later. mitra hoo,, ma ta nepal gayera sikchak banne hoo. ultimate mission of our life is to somehow contribute to human society,, what culd be more than becoming a good teacher???? about time frame for getting phd,, its very variable,, but one of our faculty got it for 2 years,, donno how. and he deserves also,, cox he is considered one of the smartest pradhyapaks in our department, very critical in seminars and presentations,,,, i personally think i can finish my dagdari in 3 years, actually i am thinking of that option also (i need minimum 90 credits for it, 30 can come from my Masters and the rest 60 can come in 2.5 years,, concentrating research works for credits suld make my research works go ahead and findings come out soon). dherai mihinet gare bhai halchaa niii,,, but the most difficult part is,, padhna thale pachi sarai nai alchii lagera auchaa. krishna kale,, thanx for ur words. i know u r very spiritual and motivated right from young age. tara daju bhayera bhai ko pachi lagnee, kasari hunchaa tyoo ????,, there used to be a time when i always followed ur path (now u must getting confused who this guy is))),, i remember while doing undergrad, u were my senior daju, renouned body builder and good in lifting heavy weights. though i was a small creature,, i was often behind u and never gave up lifting those little dumbells. you always considered me a very sojho and padhante keta (but that was not true, i did lots of gadbadi in the college)) one day when u saw me taking beer koo surpii and shouted at me,, ayeee fuchchee bigrinchaas??? Within my heart i told to myself,, yo mula dai, afu chahi khuub dhooknee, hamilai chai khanai nadine. anyway u really took care of me. i miss u lots krishna kale, and i always follow the suggestions u used to give me. and finally folks,, lets give up this thread and better go for happy hour (its friday evening). lets forget the pain of academia and have some fun with budweiser. ma chahi lagee hai mitra haru. good weekend to all folks |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 18-Jul-03 03:36 PM
Echoes ji, Yes it is a serious problem, but if the Professor is not interested on your proposal he simply ask you to find another Prof. There is no doubt that student has the liberty to choose any topic of research in his discipline, but he should be able to convice the major professor whom he/she wants to work with, and manage resources for that. Why anyone want to wander here and there like musafir....I have a fren who is suffering much by going to his country for data without selecting any Advisor, and now nobody buys his ideas. As he has to finish within the due date, he most probably will be dismissed from the graduate program. It is not necessary that a professor should be interested in student's topic of research. Professors have their own priorities, and are very picky in this matter. If they find any student potential for generating new ideas, grants, and coauthors in papers they will support the student by all means. You at the end said: ......somehow I find a connection between this problem that Bhunte-ji has expressed and "daktar-saheb"'s inability to provide Ashu-ji with advice that "make sense". But, you can interpret Ashu's point the other way around. To me, the problem lies primarily with research PhD degree in most other geographic regions other than USA or in US type of educational system. PhD by research alone has major drawbacks in the sense that they are not able to tackle new problems. Whereas in US universities, students are prepared for a doctoal candidate first with rigourous courses and tools on variety of topics, screened with killer exams, research proposal phase, and finally dissertation defense of publishable quality. In that way I believe why US doctors are usually readily acceptable anywhere in job markets...They are expert not only in their research area, but in the discipline at full swing...sorry it seems euolizing USA, but that's bitter truth...this is particular to my experience as one time i had thought of going to one Australian university for a higher study, but later encountered a person from there with PhD there. He was very good in his research area only, but dismal in overall discipline. However, there are always exceptions...No offense whoever reading this post...just a perception....I am sorry if i hurt u.... I fully understand you saying ".......This can be more of problem if the scholar must return back to her/his home country upon completing the PhD, where the areas of her/his expertise cannot be applied......." Personally for me, i feel trained with adequate tools to conduct any research no matter if the research problem is about pollution or prostitution, road or electricity, water or forest, politics or technology, ....eheheh yo kura kahile pani sakindaina |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 18-Jul-03 03:57 PM
Echoes, Further to add about the interest of professors in developing country's problem, yes they do but for selected countries by size, population, politics, or other special interest such as in the case of india, china, russia, indonesia, thailand, but not maldivs, bhutan, nepal... |
| ugly duckling | Posted
on 18-Jul-03 04:18 PM
Echoes - you got my point! gator_guy - yes, you have control over your schedule in academia. But, it depends where you set your goals. Elaborating on Bhunte's comment - One of the lessons that a student learns in a graduate school is to be able to research, and then present (oral or written) about any topic. Once they get in a job market, most students work in a differnt project than what they were trained on. |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 18-Jul-03 06:15 PM
Ugly Duck said: "......If one wants to get a Phd in Economics, be ready to commit for 7-8 years......." Hajur ko mukha ma dudh ra bhat....tyo kura hajur ko deemag ma kasari chadhyo ni hajur? |
| wizard of oz | Posted
on 19-Jul-03 02:03 AM
Dear Bhunteji, I am with you when it comes to choosing a topic for PhD. I already had a couple of papers in certain specific topic in Nepal when received PhD offer from a Australia University. I was chosen for scholarship based on my proposal on certain problems of Nepal, continuation of my work in AIT. But the Australian supervisor was not interested. I did not cry and went with the topic she gave to me. Anyway often the topics become secondary and degree the primary. Students go for their own will always find it tough. I got a very good support from her and completed the degree within 4 years with about 10 scientific papers (including co-autherships) and many overseas conferences. It would have never happened if I have gone against her. Very few universities in the world are as tough as of USA when it comes to PhD degree. In Australia, the undergraduates with honors (4 years total) are eligible for PhD. Proposal defence is mostly a formality, they don't have to ''take rigourous courses and tools on variety of topics, screened with killer exams, research proposal phase, and finally dissertation defense of publishable quality' as you mentioned. |
| Neural | Posted
on 20-Jul-03 03:44 AM
U D : " This might sound crazy, but my advisor didn t take a vacation for three years, and he works even on Saturdays". U D, my advisor works more than his lab students and makes his own monthly calendar for his lab, and i have to follow that. All the students under him have to work 12 hrs/day. No vacations in my lab. Working days 6. Kahan aayera fasechhu jasto laagchha ahile. No winter/summer vacation. U all might feel this strange, hoina ta ? :(((( Bhunte said PhD by research alone has major drawbacks &&&&& publishable quality. In that way I believe why US doctors are usually readily acceptable anywhere in job markets............No offense whoever reading this post...just a perception....I am sorry if i hurt u.... Yes, Bhunte, I do agree with u. *** May I know that how many publications (minimum) do you require as a primary author in an intl journal to get ur doctoral degree? For me, it's minimum 2 as first author in A class in'tl journal. Publishing more is better. wizard of oz : I was chosen for scholarship based on my proposal on certain problems of Nepal, continuation of my work in AIT&& It would have never happened if I have gone against her. . Wizard, in which year, were u in ait? ADVISOR is the boss/god father/everything. Who dares to go against him/her? Hey guys!!! Anyone of you planning to present paper in The 2nd Intl Conference organized by IEEE DRPT 2004 (Hongkong 5-8 Apr., 2004)? |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 20-Jul-03 10:53 AM
Neural, having said "publishable quality" it is the judgement of advisory committee. it is not necessary for one to publish before his dissertation is accepted. publication of a paper in journals is another story where referee and editor of the journal decide about the acceptance of paper for publication, and involves substantial time/cost. the discussion on journal publication may go on a separate thread. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 20-Jul-03 07:30 PM
Hi all, great, insightful and informative thread here. Phd does seem daunting and if it is not a field one does not want to stay, a doctoral is not worth the time and energy. I have a graduate degree in education pedagogy/psych. and there is not much I can do with a Phd in my field. Consequently, I have started my 2nd MA, but in Education Policymaking (at a craaaawling pace), hoping that the subject will sustain my interest up to the doctoral programme. At this point I am fiddling with and dabbling in readings about family dynamics/literacy. I find *family literacy* is ( helping to foster a home environment that encourages literacy/reading; esp. in non-English speaking communities, inner city communities...etc.) definitely a field I would enjoy working in. Now, I am at an intersection as to whether I should drop my *education policy* MA/Phd programme and explore family literacy. I don't know, if really want to commit so much time and energy on something I "might" be losing interest in. hyaaaaaaaaa......... I should take a break from studies; been a student forever! |
| suva chintak | Posted
on 20-Jul-03 08:34 PM
Ummm, So pedagogy is that specialized branch of knowledge that trains young minds in the fine art of wit, humor, and delectable repartee? I always carried the misconception that it was something to do with Plato's version of demagogy! Yo sansar ma nanannu pani kati ho kati!! Sitara jyu, Hamlai yeha auti degree garna dhau dhau bhaisakyo, tapain dui ta...bafre. Buddhi tapain ko dherai raicha ho! |
| SITARA | Posted
on 20-Jul-03 09:02 PM
Suva ji: Hamle paani scraaape scraaaaap garera baalla baalla jodi-kana, thuk le taansera, saki nasaki liyeko ho ni hajur tyo degree, buddhi le ta hoina ni! I am the Janitor of degrees and I take my job seriously. :) As for the "wit and delectable repartee", a software included ina a "WIT for DUMMIES" bhanney "how to" book, used-book sale ma lyeko thiyen... tyam tyam ma kaam lagla bhanera! ;) |
| wizard of oz | Posted
on 21-Jul-03 01:44 AM
Dear Neural, don't know if you recognize me. I did master in Food Process Engineering from AFE, SERD in 1996-1997. Had enough of abstract engineering stuffs and moved to more closer to life subject, the Human Nutrition. Did PhD in Nutrition from University of New South Wales, Sydney. But I am working as a R&D Chemist in a food industry (Australia). Isn't it interesting? Funny is the way of life: you start your journey for a certain place but ends up somewhere. |
| Neural | Posted
on 21-Jul-03 04:28 AM
Bhunte, it all depends on University's rules and regulations, and more on one's advisor. Thesis dissertation/writing thesis comes at the third episode out of four. Till third, one wud be running case studies, doing simulations (if one has), expecting good results, at the same time presenting the papers in int'l/national conferences, sending papers to in'tl journals if it is research oriented Ph.D. "it is not necessary for one to publish before his dissertation is accepted" ----it may not be. However, if one's advisor is satisfied with the work or one has a challenging result, why not to go for preparing manuscript, and send for publication and wait for reviewers' positive response. That paper wud be a part of one's research of Ph.D. He/she can continue writing a separate chapter for that paper in the dissertation. Also , if one does not have nos. of publication, the chances are rare in getting faculty position/ joining research oriented Co. (it all depends on what's one's objective after doctoral degree). More the papers, better the opportunities in the future. U can go for Post-doct, or can apply for faculty positions. However, paper quality is very important. Simply publishing in "B" class journal may not count. Just my opinion. Dear wizard of dai/didi, i graduated on last yr only. Great to hear that u r working as a R&D Chemist in a food industry. Gud luck. |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 21-Jul-03 11:21 AM
Neural ji, I am pretty much aware of what you are suggesting there. i am not sure what discipline you are at, but the best people in the world look for publishing in American Journals in my discipline. To my experience, the contributers in those journals are overwhelmingly (95%) are the scholars from US universities. I am not sure if you fall in the other side of the number. I would be happy to visit your department/university's link page and see how the professors or scholars there have performed in the past. |
| Himali_yatri | Posted
on 21-Jul-03 05:44 PM
Its really interesting topics, THOUGHTS ON GETTING PHD. I am very surprised and shocked with some of the comments here. So Iam trying to put my views about it Why we need PhD when undergarduates and master degree is enough to hunt job in the market? -well first of all, it really depends on degree you are taking, in economis and management, you might be able to find job with you undergraduate degreee or with master but in sceince I guess, it is pretty rare to get good job with master only, unless you want to spend your life as salesman or research assistance.Even in medicine, lots of countries are introducing MD/PhD or MB/PhD, so these days,PhD becomes essential part of medical degree. So in my opinion PhD is neccessary of even BIRAMI JANCHNE DACTAR SAHEB. Why basic research? -basic research is purest form of research, without basic research, application oriented research are difficult to carry out.For institutional development of research, establishment of basic research is essential. AMERICAN PHD- If longer times taken during PhD is essentail factor for multilater developmet of persons skills, i will say that in IIT( Indian institute of technology), it takes about 6 years in average to finish PhD, so Indian PhD must be the best one. If American PhD are the best, why all the best Harvard, Yale and Standford students each year hunt for Gates scholarship and Rhudes for thei PhD in Cambridge and Oxford.For last two years I have been with those so called smartest American graduates, sometimes just as collegues, sometimes as superviser for their summer prpjects, they are the one who were awarded scholarship for lab rotation abroad(in Cambridge), I didn't see anything special about them. Its not because of antiamerican sentiment, but just as young scientist, i hate American way of thinking about science. They beleive in perfectness, cost and production even in science, they beleive money can buy science, but I have to say that that's typical american way of thinking( and of those who thinks in their way). Personally I beleive that sceince developed spontaneously, rather than following with preplan ideas and proposal. Whether you think about discovery of Double helical structure of DNA, or patch clamp technique, its all discovered spontaneously. So the american way of research where they make a concrete plan and proposal about the research for PhD even before starting PhD, in my opinion is just a rubbish way of aproaching science. Spending almost two years writing your proposal for PhD doesn't make your PhD better than those who spend one month to write it(I did it). Science is something that you learn by doing and you do by learning, both goes side by side. Yeas I do accept lots of american scholars are able to publish most of their papers in journal with higher impact facters, but its nothing to do with their geniune finding or specail contribution, it is because collaboration with 100 different labs for one single papers and large amount of funding available there(and also because they can keep thier PhD student hanging for 6 years).After submitting my first paper in my first year of PhD, my superviser told me that its time I should think about writing single author paper( even without his name on it). Do you think it will be possible in America, you superviser paying you and all the cost for your research and he doesn't want any credit back for it, all his intention is to make you a good scientist? That is major different between the superviser in Europe and America.In American you buy the science, here we invent the science.Despite of such great opportunity of funding and extensive collaboration in US, why most of genuine discovery and break through in sceince is being made by non American scientiest(includes those scientis who did PhD abroad but later went US or scientis in rest of the world)? Last month I was in Berlin for a Sympsium in Signal Transduction, I met this German medical doctor who have recently finished his PhD from US, he finished his PhD in 2 and half years, its all because the superviser was German so he didn't have to do any rubbish work before he started his own PhD project and his thesis was well accepted. But in the same institute a Indian doctor is struggling for last 6 years to finish his PhD. In same conference I met Dr. Vasundhara from India, she did her PhD from US and now doing her post doc in Heidleberg, she told me that she started to work on her project properly from her 3rd year of PhD, she thinks she was lucky to be able to start that early compare to other PhD students there, first two years, spent almost all as research assistant in the lab. Now do you still think American PhD is best?spending 5 years is essentail to get PhD in US? Last but not least, one should never try to generalise anything, every country is best of certain things. If you want to learn structural biology and molecular biology, you won't find any place better than MRC Laboratory of molecular biology in Cambridge,if you want to PhD in physics Cavendish Laboratory is best in world, if you want to learn Patch clamp technigues, Goettingen in Germany is best in the world, if you want to learn some good microcopic techniques, Japan can be best and at last I will say if you want to make your PhD in Nepal culture and literature, Even Harvard can not replace TU. Nothing personal, its just my opinion, hope none will take it too much seriously. best regards |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 21-Jul-03 06:15 PM
Himali Yatri, Welcome to Sajha's PhD Club! You might have already found the answers to most of your queries in the previous posts in this thread. I liked your way of critical analysis. |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 21-Jul-03 06:58 PM
Himali Yatri, About the number of years, many universities around the world can't afford the way students are trained in American Universities. It is costly and time consuming to get all possible "guru bidhya". As i said earlier, students are exposed to various courses in the first 2-3 years. Later they choose the area where they want to develop expertize/research. The PhD degree here is highly structured. That way american degree is good in the sense they can deal with wide range of problems in that discipline. There may be few americans looking for Gates or Rhodes type of scholarship, but in that term there are many Europeans who flocks disproportionately every year for similar ones in America. There may be anecdotal cases where one finised his or her degree in 2 or 2.5 years due to this and that. Always keep in mind that there are exceptional talents everywhere in the world. Why don't you try getting an admission in one of the university here, and see how it looks like!! There is no question about most of the scientific innovations were from Europe. But, USA has advanced much in the last 200 years in the advancement of knowledge in most disciplines. As a homework, just think of where most nobel laurets of modern times are from? yes, to get a PhD in Sanskrit, Banaras Hindu University may be best...and there r many examples like that... Looks like you are Maha Daktar -- medical doctor with PhD....in jest |
| Neural | Posted
on 21-Jul-03 10:06 PM
Dear Bhunte ji, It's not only that US journals are the best in all the field. It depends on one's research area/discipline..........other journals might be far better than US journals. If the research results are not too strong enough, HIGH class journals may not accept that, and the authors will go for slight modification and send to Second class journal. (As u know the categories of the journals). However, in my discipline, I prefer IEEE/IEE-proceedings, and its' not so ez to get acceptance from the reviewer of IEEE. U may be surprised to hear that an indian guy who is in IIT now, did Ph.D. in 2.5 yrs from the lab where i am in now, under same supervisor. He has published 12 journal papers (first author) and several conferences papers. Most of his publications with high impact factor, ...is not it amazing?? he is the example at my univ. Himali yatri said : Spending almost two years writing your proposal for PhD doesn't make your PhD better than those who spend one month to write it(I did it). yeah, in my opinion too, it is not essential to spend 5 yrs or more for Ph.D. and simply working in lab as a RA for the prof. Ph.D. maa prof. ko lagi maatra kaam garne hoina neee, usko paper tayaar garne maatra hoina nee, tutorial class liney etc..........One has to create new things and apply in real field. I give importances in the latter, and for this, supervisor's support is too important. Furthermore, I wud better go for publishing papers/presenting papers in int'l conferences and try to meet new researchers of my field/ best authors of my field/ best prof. Will get to known many researchers, ppl... Within a pd. of 9.5 months, i have written few papers, and one of them is aldy accepted, and others two are in reviewing process. Next month, I am presenting one paper in a conference . Whatever it is, if one has good relation with Prof., there won't be any problem. I am happy where i am, and what am doing. Just my vision. Gud luck to all belonging to this club. |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 21-Jul-03 10:59 PM
Neural ji, As i said there r always exception. But, what i was talking was US in general vs most other parts of the world. Further, when the research degree is structured to be completed within three years for most average students, completing one in 2.5 years is not a big surprise for me. Dissertation research here also takes approximately 1-3 years, but some opt to take longer period depending on circumstances. There is no way out here to waive PhD level of core courses, specialized courses, qualifying/comprehensive exams all the core and field courses before one starts actual research. Whether they are necessary or not is subjective judgement, availability of resource, etc. USA is good in tapping the talents around the world by locating them if it find them in good journals. There is no doubt that you will be the one in future or that IIT guy. About IIT guy, over what period of time he published 12 journal articles? I commend him if he did it within 2-3 years conditional on if they are not on the same topic applied in different locations or environments. .... Neural, this is very productive thread for anyone who has and access, resource, guts and patient to go for a PhD degree anywhere in the world... |
| Neural | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 12:07 AM
Dear Bhunte ji, i do agree with 80% of ur explanations. Yeah, course work is essential and many other things to make the base concrete. I have aldy mentioned before that "padhne vaye USA janu, ........ japan jaanu". No doubt. I respect US degrees and the students too. The educational environment is nice over there and one can fight with current issues according to their field, which i feel challenging...........Since my one is just a research oriented, i have to do all by myself.....that's a huge draw back for me... learning from others is 10 times easier than learning by oneself :((((( ......Most of the hot researches related to my field were/are booming from the US......the researches done by PG&E, California are my references...By going thru' ur postings, i feel that you must be at strong stage with depth knowledge. Bhunte ji, good luck to u,, u din't mention ur research area???? oh, abt that IIT guy, he was a lecturer in one of the indian universities, he had enough data, and aldy started work before Ph.D, which he completed during his Ph.D. Otherwise, it is not possible to publish........ in such a short pd. As you too, i wud say that he belongs to an exceptional case. Comparitively, i wud say US degrees are better than others though one goes for illustrating several instances. However, the students belonging to British system/europe may not agree..... bhunte ji, thx for ur compliments abt the thread. best wishes |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 02:21 AM
<<<< Neural ji, mine is more like head spinning one with diverse topics--nun dekhi sun samma. that's the area anyone can guess...About "....strong stage/depth knowldege....." Umm... khoi maile ke bhanne. Never got a chance to go a school like sxs or bnks...Now i have to vent it honestly--of six-paged single-spaced (font sz 10) CV, nearly a third of it contains the list of journal publications, conference proceedings, working papers, reports, short articles, etc.(70% international)...Vagwan kasam ma Budho machhe chanhi pakkai hoina...ehehe...but started career in research when as early as 19......recently i enjoy writing grant proposals, support and guide other PhDs, ....I am not an Engineer but felt very happy as one first class Engineer of a powerful ministry in Nepal while he was here few years ago told me that 'Bhunte ji, my enginieering PhD dissertaion research in Netherland was based on your short article published from Sri Lanka in 1988". God! some agencies found that particular article useful for the betterment of lives of people in Africa and translated that into French....Neural ji, life is so so full of struggles....Despite my professional life, I like Ha Ha Hu Hu & hootings with my nonsense postings here, and mingle (sometime fight) with friends like you......ehehe |
| KaLaNkIsThAn | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 02:29 AM
There is at least one thing in my life that I am sure of: I will NEVER NEVER NEVER get PhD in my life!!! (Unless it's on sajha and chat) Now that's quite something!! nah? |
| Neural | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 03:57 AM
Bhunte ji , "Vagwan kasam ma Budho machhe chanhi pakkai hoina...ehehe...but started career in research when as early as 19......" hahaha....u made me LOL with the word "vagwan kasam" , dherai pachhee sunna payeeyo. Yeah, it was in my attention that u shud not be the fresh graduate due to ur writing and expression mode. Ma ta tapailai Adarniya Daju vanchhu aba dekhi. Vannai parchha...gaff tatha umer ko naata le. "....based on your short article published from Sri Lanka in 1988"..... hajur le 1988 dekhi article lekhna thalnu vaako rahechha... aba ma kehi boldina...bolnu bekaar chha..... surrendered..... maile maathi lekheko sab kura firta hai...... i took it all back..... "Neural ji, life is so so full of struggles....Despite my professional life, I like Ha Ha Hu Hu & hootings with my nonsense postings here, and mingle (sometime fight) with friends like you......ehehe " ===> sweet & sour, ups & down, desired o/p & actual o/p, high error & considerable error, accept & reject, elasticity & inelasticity, monopoly & competitive, deregulation and regulation, compatibility & incompatibility......IS NOT OUR LIFE LIKE THIS????? Thas why life is so so so full of struggles. And, if one does not do HU HU HA HA , Halla , no charisma in life. Otherwise Sin 30 vane hunchha tyo maanchhey lai... kehi bigradaina. |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 05:21 AM
Neural ji, Just Daju should be OK if you r below thirties...no Adarniya or any other prefixes or adjectives...actually something came out of press as early in 1984, but motivated to write rigorously since later half of 1986 on a mentorship of one SXS best boy. <<<<<... aba ma kehi boldina...bolnu bekaar chha..... surrendered..... maile maathi lekheko sab kura firta hai...... i took it all back..... >>>> You should take back the above statement. Thats one of the drawback with many of us. We must have healthy arguments. For your info, i m as fresh as 'Liril sabun le nuhayeko jastai", but involved in other types of activities that usually professors do b4 my adv degree.... if u r in Tokyo, i may see you around this month next year as i plan to attend a intl conf for a paper presentation there best wishes for ur PhD.... |
| Neural | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 05:42 AM
Bhunte daju, i took back that sttmt. It was a healthy discussion with u. I enjoyed. Hope u too. Let me know before ur departure for int'l conf. BTW which int'l conf. is that? who knows i may be there too. Namaste. |
| Himali_yatri | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 07:39 AM
Bhunteji Thanks for your invitation about tryig to get admissiong for PhD in US, but for your information, first of all I have to tell you that there is not a single lab in US which is working in my feild, Secondly non in this world is so stupid to leave his PhD at the end of thesis defence and go for US(at least not in this part of world). But I will think about your invitation for my post doctoral research in case I am tired of life in Europe. To be honest I am very impressed and happy to know about your work and publications. Instead me going US, why don't you try to get a lecturer position in University of Cambridge. I will be very happy to see your CV in sajha, and also your publications. I am sure that can be a good inspiration for everyone including myself who are in beginning of their research career. About my homework, with your due respect, I did it and if you don't mind, I would kindly ask you to recalculate and make the proportion of US and European noble laurets, then count number of academic institution in Europe and US and number PhD prouduced and total population of pepole among which they have been selected. you will get the answer for your queston. About the institution in other part of world not being able to afford PhD so they reduce the quality of work needed for PhD as well as duration, being a superviser for PhD, I am pretty sure you should be aware that any supreviser in this world would like to keep thier PhD student as long as possible, he won't mind paying more than half of salary of a post doc to a PhD student who is at the end of his PhD if student is interested to keep on working as PhD student. SO there is no question of unadequete funding leading to the reduced duration of PhD. Rather I would say it is opposite. I totally accept the fact that lots of East European going to US for PhD, but not that people in west Europe. Among the least number of American who get opportunity to come Cambridge and Oxford as Gates scholars and Rhudes, most of American Presidents(Bill Clinton as well as his daughter) are included in them( of course not George Buss, eveyone knows why). cheers |
| Sadabichar | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 11:26 AM
PHD lafada ke ho yo sab? |
| Sadabichar | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 11:28 AM
Ever thought of wiping out the degree called PhD? It's just a misnomer. |
| Sadabichar | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 11:29 AM
Ani tyo Ke banchha, Dr. Krishna Prasad Bhattarai. |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 01:48 PM
Himali Yatri ji, I agree with you as every creature in this universe is unique, I don't find any surprise with if u didn't find a lab in US similar to one you have there. Sometime I feel stupid by deciding to get into this PhD business...Have fun in you thesis defence and my best wishes are with you... I would love to share my CV with you when I find appropriate. Will you be the Prime Minister of Nepal or are you the Chancellor of University of Cambridge by any chance? If so, I would apply there if you create a suitable position for me and show all my credentials before you. But, for me U of Cambridge is some kinna of obsolate and oldie ..there r different schools of thought when it comes to the matter of philosophy (not in hard science like yours)...it is just how you perceive things. For your information, i love all institutions whereever they be as long as students can learn something there... About the homework, as I earlier said "...where most nobel laurets of MODERN TIMES are from...". Yes definitiley Europe leads if one counts from 'baje baraju ko pala dekhi ko takma haru'....Anyway, nobel prize is from Europe, and US has not been able to paralall that prize. I don't deny that. For your info, supervisor doesn't treat student here as slaves. You are wrong in the sense you are comparing education with money. Are you treating PhD in Europe a money making business? Students are paid what what is deemed necessary. Well, it is not necessary for one to flock where most neta's got their education. Do you think it is appropriate for all Nepalis to aspire colleges in Banaras where Krishna Prasad, Girija Prasad, etc got their education? Can you little bit go beyond Bill's story ...in jest Hey SimpleGal, why are you silent? Help me to dissect people's psychology..... |
| Sadabichar | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 01:57 PM
Buddha lai PhD degree holder Bhanne ki na-Bhanne ta? |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 02:04 PM
Sadbichar ji, I say YES if Budha has honorary title conferred by some univ. I think Dr. KPBhattarai got honorary title from University of Kuruchhetra somewhere in India. I know King Birendra has many such honorary titles, even from US university. |
| NK | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 02:05 PM
Perhaps honorary Dr. Dr. Siddhartha "Buddha" Gautama. Honorary Ph.D. in Buddhism. ;) But you know what? He would care less! As fo rme, no never. Just not my cuppa tea. Too lazy, too stupid, too lazy, too stupid.. well, you got the gist, I hope. :) |
| Sadabichar | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 02:08 PM
But remember, so many other scholars got PhDs in Buddhism, but not necessarily they got nirvana. |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 02:11 PM
Sadbichar i, I agreed with you... |
| NK | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 02:11 PM
Well, if they had done Ph.D. Nirvana then who knows, eh? |
| Sadabichar | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 02:17 PM
Nowadays, PhD holders are shying away from writing Dr. in front of their names... Instead they prefer to write PhD after their name. Also PhD means "Doctor of Philosophy" But people are geting PhDs in so many variety of subject areas, which have nothing to do with doctori nor with philosophy. If you are doing PhD so that you could put Dr. in front of your name... then you are not a scholar. If you hava a passion for knowledge, inventions etc. can still can follow your dreams without doing Phd. |
| mountainmama | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 02:20 PM
Wow..so many PhD's here, I am not alone....Sorry, its a little late to answer wiz-post Why we do phD? isn't it a personal choice? Logical reason behind phd is, you should have an inquisitive personality, intrigged enough to do research and find answers to your curiosities. Thats how i started my phD because I had too many questions unanswered with just MS. Completion time is also dependent upon how you started and your personal pace. If you already know what you are getting into, and focussed enough, it may not be that bad. First, you do phd for your personal satisfaction, knowing that you are working towards something which will have some impact in the field. Secondly, why is it so different than any other job? thats why starting family etc is irrelavant. Age is irrevant too, we will not be getting younger no matter what we do. We are learning all our life and PhD is just more desciplined form of learning. If you know how to prioritise your time and have an understanding partner, it shouldn't be that bad (wishing..). I will be finishing up in 2005 spring (hopefully) also and I am thorougly enjoying my time. I feel sorry for those people who thinks its a waste of their time working on projects irrelevant to their dessertation. But isn't diversification helpful when you have to handle multiple projects and when you actually start working? I don't want to contradict anyone, this is just my opinion and experience. Being a woman and from Nepal, I think I have better reasons to have a PhD! |
| vivid | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 02:22 PM
Harey, Jasle jata bata permanently head damage(Ph.D.) gareni head ta damage bhakai ho ni hoina ra bhanya?? Europe hos ki US hos ki Japan hos ki Australia, ajha nabirsiun hai India ra Nepal pani, sabai ko agadi dagdaar sab ko furko jhudiyekai dekhchu mata ani kina yetro radako machai raa bhane. Afno lagi ta akash ko faal ankha taree maar bhane sari cha kyare tyo furko, :P NK ji, me also wanna join your club of too lazy n too stupid, do accept me hai!, :) |
| Sadabichar | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 02:23 PM
If you try to publish a paper in journal... they won't oublish your name with Dr. in from your name.. they also don't mention that the author is PhD holder. But what they do mention is which institution the author is associated with... and other blah blah. Now to be a part of that insitution is another question.. like being professor of the university, scholar at research center... for which you need tohave phd.. otherwise you are OUT of that university's academic position. |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 02:51 PM
Mountainmama, Welcome to Sajha's PhD Club and your inputs are highly appreciated! You have tons of scope not only in Nepal but around the world being a woman and with PhD...Best wishes for your dream to come true by 2005 or earlier.. Suru ma jhatta nam herda ta mero afnai mamasri lai balla bhettya jasto lagya thiyo, tara hajur lai MountainMaiju bhanda kaso hola??... |
| Neural | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 08:47 PM
Sadabichar ji, welcome to permanently head damage (Ph.D.) [source: vivid] club. your statement : "they won't oublish your name with Dr. in from your name.. they also don't mention that the author is PhD holder." Yeah, in most of the journals, one can see the authors name with their contact addresses and name of the dept./institution. You might know most of the reviewers of the journals; authors are Ph.D. holders with lotse experiences. However, papers in journals are not only published by Prof. /other Ph.D. holders. Even several papers are published by masters students. One is going to publish his/her research work in journal so that the whole world can go thru' it, and his/her work wud b + point in his/her career. The other researchers can take this research as a reference, and continue with further research....and try to bring more optimized/better results. Just writing Dr. in front of the name is not a big deal. "All the journal papers have their own format. One has to publish paper according to their format only. If you look at IEEE journals, one can see "biography" of the authors at the end after References section. Biography section is usually needed in IEEE journals. However, many journals don publish biography of authors. My question is "why it is necessary for the author with Dr. in front his/her name". If one is interested to know whether the author is Ph.D. holder or not, just go to the site of his institute. Furthermore, many journals have membership facility. I donno much about other journals, but in IEEE: membership is categorized as student member, member, senior member, fellow. And it is mentioned along with authors as: X, student member IEEE, Y, senior member, IEEE, and Z, fellow, IEEE . Authors are publishing their work, not the resume.....Just my opinion. What do u say Bhunte dai??? ============================ mountainmama: a warm welcome to here. Your thoughts of starting Ph.D. are esteemed. I hope ur unanswered questions are deeply answered by now. Wishing u a success in achieving ur goal. |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 10:05 PM
Sadbichar ji, i haven't encountered any journals that place Dr. before author's name. But, it is to anybody's wild guess. And, why anyone would want to care for that...Format for authors descriptions varies from one journal to another as Nueral mentioned. But one need to give the professional title, full address including email, tel, fax in the authors description. On correspondences, formal meetings, news paper interviews/quotes, etc. people are addressed with one's doctori title. Thats very conventional there. Recently the fashion has been to write PhD after one's name, probably people got confused medical doctor with a PhD doctor. |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 22-Jul-03 10:19 PM
Sadbichar ji, Oops I got confused for you saying Buddha (the gautam budda) with Budha (old)...thought u were referring to KPBhattarai budha....ahahah |
| mountainmama | Posted
on 23-Jul-03 06:55 AM
Thanks neural. Bhunte, you can call me mama, maiju anything. However, maiju is more appropriate for a married person, hoina? Its just a sign in name and I didn't put much thought earlier. I agree with sadabichar. If you are doing phd just to put Dr. in front of your name, its not worth it. Its just a job with lesser monetary outcome and greater longterm benefits. Lets stay positive and focussed. I also want to say that whoever doesn't have phd are not stupid or lazy. You guys are good at doing other things and can have equal contribution to the society. If every one started to go for phd then the whole world will be full of permannently damaged heads...So take a chill pill and enjoy :P |
| Himalayas | Posted
on 23-Jul-03 07:23 AM
sano joke.... one guy was saying "Call me a doctor, Call me a doctor" His friend asked him "What happened? Are you ill?" He replied " No, I just finished my Ph.D today" |
| Sadabichar | Posted
on 23-Jul-03 07:33 AM
PhD is man-made system in academic fields. There are several views why a person should be granted a PhD. Some say, a person who comes up with a totally new ideas should be granted phd, while others might receive a phd for applying newly available technique in solving a problem which already have been solved. There are also people getting phd, simply becasue they sustained through out their phd life for 3 - 6 years withstanding the pressure, tensions and stress, and being able to manage to come up with a thesis. Some say a person is eligible for a phd, because (s)he survived through the research training after completing the specific task given by the supervisor. And by that process, they believe that now the newly phd holder can carry on independent research on his own. Science is different aspect of life. The things are discovered.. but discovery is always done by accidentally. While we might have theories, which needs to be proved. And then we need to gather facts to prove that theory. That theory may be true or false. If you can gather facts scientifically for that, the theory is proved. But it doesn't mean that the theory was not there until somebody proves it. In science imagination is needed to prove the things and your theory. The lae of gravity was always there, even before Newton established it. Apples did fall from the trees to the ground even before he found it. But it's newton's innovative imagination that led to the Gravitational Law, and since then humans are continually sending crafts beyond Earth, and successfully have brought back such crafts on the Earth after the mission. Therefore truth is always there. It's the way how we prove it with what imagination and words of language we have. |
| Himali_yatri | Posted
on 23-Jul-03 11:53 AM
Hi Everybody, I think PhD is not for putting Dr. Title in front of your name, otherwise medical doctors don't have to PhD. Age is very important in PhD, because PhD is a kind of license that entitles you to carry out independent research(at least in science). It doesn't ensure that you are expert in any feild. I guess if I am 40 or 50s I won't be starting my PhD.So I will say younger is better to start PhD. If one does PhD so that he can write PhD title behind his name, then I have to say that could be misuse of your time and funding you got during your PhD. Bhunteji I didn't ask you to show your credential infront me. I am just looking for good inspiration from one of my Nepalese freind because as every Nepalese I am pround of some of those rare Nepalese SUPUTRA like you who is doing so well in research feild,six pages of CV,1/3 filled with list of publications, and not Butho manche. That is why I asked if you could put your CV here so that all of other PhD students like me can inspire from your work. But I am surprised to know that a brilliant personality like yourself, needs me to be Vice Chancellar of University of Cambridge to get a lectureship position in this University.From your posting I can guess that you might be envolved in economis(nun dhekhi sun samma) so if you need information regarding vacancy in U of Cambridge economis Department, here is the weblink. http://www.econ.cam.ac.uk/. Two Noble laurets in Economics -J A Mirreles, Amratya Sen, are still working there. You might even get chance to work with them. But I am sorry to tell you that I can not be of any help to provide you any position. It is competition based selection. Nepal hoina k garne, source force nai chaldhaina. And for your information i counted the Noble laurets of so called modern time(year from which if you count, you can find more American Noble laurets) . You are right most of them are American.Congratulation.Sorry for my miscalculation. Nothing personal hai, just take it as SAJHA hahahuhu. Good luck. |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 23-Jul-03 01:24 PM
Sajha Hanjiri Jabaf Pratiyogita: Q: Aann garda alankar bujhne manchhe ko hola yo Sajhapur ma? A: Himali Yatri Himali yatri ji, you r very genious....Well, there are plethora of CVs if one visits faculty web pages of different universities around the world. If i want to be jealous and nspired, i often visit there. Thank you so much for the web link for the job mkt. Currently, I am happy where i am. But, I want to experience how it feels like to be jobless with a PhD degree, wandering around Ratna Parka, buying 'ek chauthai or adha mana badam or bhuteko chana/bhatamas' and munching them in the park's lawn. That way i will be better able to touch the hearts of many Nepalis and do something for them. At one point in my life, I had an opportunity to work in the same institute where a Nobel laurates was also working, had office room next to him, lived together in the same apartment complex, got an opportunity to evaluate his work, talked about the welfare of human being, etc. I have high respects to all those nobe laurets including the one you mentioned who is working in Trinity College. I have also worked with few other people who are well known to other Nobel laurates. You feel very enlightened when you see their cheering faces and handshake them. baf re baf Bhunte le kya Ganjadi ko jastai HaHaHuHu gaf diyo...yo sabai tyo babaji ko prasad ho....lau ma tap kase... |
| NK | Posted
on 23-Jul-03 01:30 PM
Ahhh the EGO! Cannot shake it off, can we? Or else we all would have been Buddha getting ready for our nirvana. On a second thogh -t who the hell wants nirvana when one can beat hischest and shriek, "Tarzan Bungaloooo" or something like that? a smiley face - kinda. |
| najar | Posted
on 23-Jul-03 01:34 PM
I should set aside a chunk of time to read postings on this thread before i make a historical decison of whether i should get a PHD or not! or perhaps get enlightened or nirvaana, whatever term best describes the kurakani here.... NK, aaja nikkai feerreee time bhayo jasto chha ni, jataa tataai NK, NK dekhchhu :)) how are you? ;) |
| NK | Posted
on 23-Jul-03 01:55 PM
Hehe. Yes Najar I do or rather, did. Until 'morrow! Ciao! |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 23-Jul-03 10:12 PM
Najar ji, We encourage for a PhD whenever you get an opportunity. Lot of things depends on other factors. Developing world needs young, enthusiastic, creative, and intellingent women daktars like you.... |
| boke | Posted
on 24-Jul-03 04:05 AM
Mailey sunya anusar: BS = Bull Shit MS = More Shit PHD = Pile High & Deep ============== When you get your Bachelors, you think you know everything. When you get your Masters, you find you know nothing. When you get your Doctorate, you realize nobody knows anything. ============== Aafno ta Bachelors degree matrai cha. So I bullshit a lot (as evidenced in this forum) because I think I know everything. |
| Himali_yatri | Posted
on 24-Jul-03 04:59 AM
La la bhunteji Hamro ratna park ko ijjat pani badne bayo. Nepalka thotra nata matra hoina, US ko PhD pani meroma hallina aayako thiyo banera garwale chhati pulauchhan ratna parkle pani. Kunai din hami pani yaso ratnapark ma basera badam khayako bella, chheuma ko rahechha banera hello vandha hamri Bhunteji parira hunsakchha.ani hami pani garwale chhati fulauchhou ki kamsekam badam khandha ta sath diyako thiya US ko PhD lai banera. Ani sayad tesbella kura pani milchha hola, US ko PhD hos ya UK ko, aakhira end of the day RATNA PARK, JINDABAD. Anyway good to see you all this in discussion. Thanks for nice feedback and inspirations from all my dear freinds.I am happy to know that I am not alone in this PhD yatra. Wish you all very best for your PhD and career after PhD. Though I said I might see you in Ratna Park but I do wish to see you as future Noble Lauret of Nepal Mr. Bhunteji so that we don't have to discuss US and Eureop Noble laurets, rather can discuss future Nepalese noble laurets.So all the best wishes Mr. Bhunteji. Some might think its PhD as pile and high deep shit, I have no comments on it. At the end of the day, the best thing in life is to do what you like to do and be what you like to be.As I have said earlier degreee doesn't make anyone expet or a better person than other. Have a good time in Sajha. Best regards |
| RBaral | Posted
on 24-Jul-03 05:08 AM
Himali_Yatri ji: Please enlighten me what IEEE stands for. And, good luck on your coveted venture! Namaste, Rishi |
| Himali_yatri | Posted
on 24-Jul-03 06:15 AM
Rishiji I guess you got wrong person to ask. To be honest i have no clue what IEEE standards for, but according to our GOOGLE baje, it seems to be something like Electrical and Electronics engineers, Inc. I am sure other members in discussion forum should know about it. |
| Echoes | Posted
on 24-Jul-03 06:52 AM
IEEE= Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (, Inc.) |
| bhunte | Posted
on 24-Jul-03 01:53 PM
Himali Yatri ji, Keep dreaming of any Nepali to be a nobel lauret. For now the odds for it may be Pr=0.00000000000000000000000000000001. Having a PhD doesnt mean you are barred going to RatnaPark or keep distance from normal citizens. I will definitely go there just to recall my days...Who knows I would hear you gossiping there about bhunte, and will definitely pat from behind or handshake and say 'hey, dr. himali yatri! tapai pani yeha?'...Anyway how is life in UK? |
| Sadabichar | Posted
on 25-Jul-03 07:26 AM
PhD Bhayo Bhandei ma Naak Phulaunu Pardaina. If you have a PhD, that means you may know a very specific thing/knowledge about about miniscule aspect of truth. It's like a drop in the ocean. Can you be happy throughout your life after getting PhD? You may have published 70/80 papers in world-renowned journals, but are you satisfied with your life? If you haven't learn the "art of living", then what's the use of your PhD? Living wholesome life in practical manner is what Buddha re-discovered (not-discovered) and tried to propagate. That's why Buddhism has never been bogged down in any controversy unlike all other religions. |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 25-Jul-03 11:51 AM
Sadbichar ji, thats very pertinent research topic for your PhD..... |
| Sadabichar | Posted
on 25-Jul-03 01:10 PM
I think Japan's PhD sounds good to me... I heard that no matter what you do, you get phd in exactly three years. This might be true with nepalese who go there to do phd.. but do you have any idea howmany years the japanese spend to get phd? |
| xserver | Posted
on 25-Jul-03 01:38 PM
guys guys.... guys forget about all these nonsense talk about right now like art,woman, music etc "phet me pani nahi chale calcutta" forget about all those things.. think how to survive now... do u know moist are underground plus they clashed between govt party and five parties supports .. start to have civil war and bloodshed... let talks about how to survive, get through from all these problems... as u know we already in troubles in USA raising cost of tuition fees, lack of job markets, hard to find part time jobs, strict Immigrtation policy..for australi, canada,newzeland for about going as student too expensive for PR u need to have atleast 2, 3 years of experience to get green card so not easy for NEPAL and nepali.. what we gonna do???? |
| makuro | Posted
on 25-Jul-03 05:41 PM
One thing that never seizes to amaze me is what makes those ppl who seat in the same place unmoved for hours and hours deeply engrossed in their work. Ph D holders or prespective Ph D holders please impart what is the secret behind such dedication. Please be generous and share your secrets such that ignoramus like me who has neither stealy discipline nor fire in the belly can dream of obtaining PhD too! Isn't dream sweet no matter how unattainable it is!! |
| Arnico | Posted
on 26-Jul-03 02:54 PM
Take your eyes off sajha for a few days& and it becomes really hard to catch up with everything that went on& Wow, 100 posts already. Where do I even begin to respond, and to express my opinion? I need to type my response in word, while scrolling through the thread in another window& Regarding the duration for getting a PhD: We notice that the range depends greatly upon both the university and the program& from 3 to 8 years or more& (I know one person who took 13 years). It is not just the duration that varies a lot though& but also the requirements. Some programs (especially in the US require one or two, or even three years of fulltime coursework), while in others one proceeds straight into dissertation research. Qualifying exams and general exams provide hurdles of greatly varying difficulty. In the non-academic world a doctoral degree is a doctoral degree& but in academia, there IS an understanding that the same degree from different institutions (or programs) can signify vastly varying experiences& and that DOES get reflected in the academic hiring process& and in how much time and energy is needed in intermediate steps (such as post-docs) before landing tenure track jobs (and in what kind of tenure track jobs). Regarding doing research on a students homecountrys problems. There seems to be a great diversity in possibilities and opportunities depending on university, program, and advisor. For example the university where I did my Masters was rather unsupportive, while for the PhD level I went out hunting for an advisor who was willing to take me on for what I wanted to do& As for being an expert in just ones narrow research field& I agree with Bhuntes point. A strength of most US PhD programs is that they emphasize building skills in analytical thinking and as a researcher in general, and that they require a very good understanding of the larger field of study beyond just ones dissertation topic. There is also a lot of emphasis on building oral and written presentation skills. One interesting anecdote& I once went to a recruiting program by McKinsey (a large multinational management consulting company) & I have to admit I had no interest in consulting and only went because of the free food (yes, that makes me a typical grad student!!!)&. But in the process of attending the pre-food talks, I learned something that I found really interesting. At that time McKinsey was recruiting (1) students with an MBA, and (2) students with a PhD. They did not care what the field was for the PhD, but it had to be completed. Himali-yatri& your posting from July 21 is too long to respond to& so I will just quote two sentences that caught my attention: one should never try to generalise anything In American you buy the science, here we invent the science. kalankisthan wrote: I will NEVER NEVER NEVER get PhD in my life!!! (Unless it's on sajha and chat) Well& I urge you to do so. Theres almost enough material here already for a dissertation in anthropology, or perhaps sociology& Himali-yatri: you made a comment about supervisors preferring to keep PhD students as long as possible for half the salary of a post-doc. Well& I may be in an unusual institution, but here, supervisors have to pay the tuition and fees for their students as well as the salary/stipend& and since that is on the order of $ 28,000 a year& it is cheaper and preferable to have a post-doc than a graduate student&. So supervisors do push their students to focus on their research and finish it as quickly as possible (and often try to keep them on as post-docs instead). Bhunte: your odds of a Nepali getting a Nobel Prize seems way too small. Some time in the next decade, or two& Im pretty sure a compatriot of ours will get it. A scholarly one that is. The peace prize might come sooner, given the present mess in Nepal! Xserver: will you please stop posting the same stuff on every thread? Yes there are problems. There have always been, and always will be. No need to panic just because some of the problems are new or unfamiliar! |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 26-Jul-03 04:53 PM
Arnico ji, The probability figure i jotted there is not exact but just an indicative one. I agree with the cost figure you have extrapolated while pursuing for a PhD. The cost for dissertation research will be separately added to that. |
| Neural | Posted
on 28-Jul-03 04:48 AM
WOW!!! Hundred & two posts aldy in the CLUB OF Ph.D. (permanently head damage or Pile High & Deep) Showing appreciation to all of you for sharing ur thoughts on getting a Ph.D. Different ppl, different thinking - many logics & many notions. There were healthy and robust arguments/discussions by many of us, which were really agreeable. I was able to congregate much useful information provide by many of us who have contributed his/her attention. Wherever we are, whatever field we are currently engaged in, let us wish for the betterment of all NEPALI residing in and out of Nepal, and enjoy the life. My special thanks go to Bhunte dai, Himali Yatri jyu & Arnico jyu for their valuable participation. By going thru all the posts in this thread, I remember a joke & here it goes. A teacher tells few students to learn the phone-book by heart. The mathematicians are puzzled: "By heart? Are u kidding?" The physics students ask: "Why?" The engineers sigh: "Do we have to?" The chemistry students ask: "By next Monday?" The accounting students: "By tomorrow?" The laws students answer: "We already have." The medicine students ask: "Should we start on the Yellow Pages?" The computer science students ask, "What's the URL for that?" The economics students: what is the benefit? ---- Thank you. |
| Himali_yatri | Posted
on 28-Jul-03 05:29 AM
Hello Arnico Ji I don't know where the graduate studenship in US comes from, weather it is from superviser's personal lab account or it is separately as graduate studenship. Here in Europe, studenship is directly awarded to phD student, not to the superviser. So supervisers try to take full benefit from studentships(normally 3 year and can be extedned 6 months). If someone can not finish PhD by that time, supervisers pay him and of course salary is much less than what is need to pay for post doc. Because the acadimic duration for PhD is three year, student doesn't have to pay tuition fee more than three years. That means, he can work in lab for years without paying tuition fee . Of course, being a graduate student and having experince in lab for many years and its cheaper, they prefer to keep experinced PhD student than a new post doc. Well I do accept fact that different countries might have different systems.But my point here is 3 years PhD system in Europe is not because they can not afford 5 years. Another point is 5 years hanging for PhD doesn't make you smarter PhD compare to 3 years. What makes your PhD degree more qualified is your work and publications which comes from your dissertation research not from how many different types of courseworks you did during PhD and how many years you spend for your PhD.People hire you for post doc because of your spefilised skills and capability to perform research that you have gained during yoru PhD, not for how many coursework someone had done during PhD. Of course this personnal spefilised skill can be seen from your dissertation research. So if I spend entirely 3years in my dissertation research throughout my PhD and you spend 2 years out of your 5 years PhD, job market is more acceessible for one who spend more time in research( of course productive, I mean with publications). It is good to have some broad knowledge of everything but when it comes to technical feild, it becomes useless.You might be able to impress few people in chatting room or chautari or sajha with your broad knowledge but not in felid of research(at least not in natural science). Well I do agree with your comments on Bhunteji's figures about probablity of Nepalese to get noble prize. If King Mahendra didn't pull the leg of RishijKesh Shah, he could have been appointed General Secretary of UN and might be awarded Noble prize for peace. So as always I am very optimistic that someday I will be able to see some Nepalese to get Noble prize. But at the same time it should also be noted that Noble Prize is not everything, if Padma, Daman, and Shailendra as facilator of peace talk brings the end of moist conflict, I will defintely respect tham more than Simon Perez. Sorry for writing another long comments, But I hope Arnicoji will have time to go through it. If it is bothering someone, I beg my sincere apology. K garnu yahako PhD ma kasari article lekhnu parchha banera sikaudhaina, tesaile, chhoto kura lamo lekhai hunchha. Best regards |
| bhunte | Posted
on 28-Jul-03 08:54 AM
Himali yatri ji, tapai le ta kasto frustrating kura garnu bhayo by saying "......You might be able to impress few people in chatting room or chautari or sajha with your broad knowledge but not in felid of research....". sociologists say there r diff ways of adjusting frustration, and your assertion sounds like a typical one. for me, i found this thread interesting. somehow it turned out to be sharing some kind of egos. i m not here to show my knowledge of my areas of expertize. as i admitted earlier, i m just here for ha ha hu hu n hooting.... about Nobel prize, why u give credit to Shailendra (silky white haired guy!!)-- the person who at 60s married to a teen "bhanse keti". Arreee kamti ma nobel prize ko iijjat ta rakhi dinus na. katai ooha hajur ko afno manchhe ta parnu bhayena....in jest Again maoist is no longer an issue after the demise of Soviet era and Chinese hardcore line. Mikhail Gorvachev already received the prize for that..i dont think world's attention is in Nepal's maoist insurgency. however, i would have given nepali nobel prize to col. narayan sing pun for being able to surface baburam, badal, and mahara whose head price were tagged in millions rupee for them to be declared terrorist by deuba govt live or dead. heard that narayan ji is in UK---hajur le bhetnu bhayo ki... |
| Himali_yatri | Posted
on 28-Jul-03 12:05 PM
Bhunteji So far as I remember I didn't pointed out any particular person's name in my sentence "......You might be able to impress few people in chatting room or chautari or sajha with your broad knowledge but not in felid of research....". But if you move your leg, when someone says CHOR KO KHUTTA KAT, then its not my problem. Well I named Shailendra and others as example only as they are working as facilator right now, not because I know much about him. Of course Narayan's contribution for bringing Baburam and Badal for peace talk is really appreciated by everyone.I didn't know about Shailendras marrital life that much, but thanks for that information.But one should try to keep the personal life history away when judging his works. Otherwise we will find holes everywhere for eg Narayan Singh Pun is married to four wives,Winston Churchill rape widow before he was British priminister, how will one judge them? For your information, socialogist doesn't know anything about frustrations. If you have said, psychologist or psychiatrist I could have accepted to some extend. Needless to say that I have found this thread very interesting and I don't see any reason to express my frustration( if there is any). Rather, analysing from psychological point of veiw, I see the sign of this frustration,anger, humiliation on another side where people spend 5-7 years to get same PhD as some gets in 3 years. Never mind, after all it is just sajha haha huhuh hihi heheh...................... best regards from UK |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 28-Jul-03 03:00 PM
Himali Yatri ji, Yeha Atlantic ocean side pari ka kasai le pani khutta taneka chhainan hai...yeha ka manchhe ta ekdam dildar chhan ani open minded pani...galti bhayema arko gala thapna pani tayar chhu hajur.. You always bring controversial people in the forefront to make your case, like Shailendra, BillClnton, etc. ani ma ke garu ta... About sociology-pshychology dichotomy...ummm...lot of things sociologists borrow from pshychology. Ani tyo 5-7 yrs ko bisaye ma yo Amrika ko degree khattam chha bhanera biswo ka bujruk haru le bhanna pani ta saknu paryo ni hajur....tsk tsk |
| Echoes | Posted
on 29-Jul-03 07:03 AM
One MORE reason why one should NOT do a Ph.D.: --It teaches you (by culture!) to argue like we've seen on this thread...often sarcastic and aimed at proving how stupid the other person is and his/her thoughts. So don't do it! ;) |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 29-Jul-03 03:50 PM
Echoes ji, Yes I agree on the argument part. But, if everyone decides not to have a PhD then many of Masters degree program may be halted due to lack of teacher with PhD degree after a generation or so...what do u think? |
| Echoes | Posted
on 29-Jul-03 05:23 PM
Bhunte-daju! :) Sanchai hajurlai? Bhauju nabhayeko mauka parera Kurakaani ma guff layera basne! Anyways. Hajurle bhannu bhayo: "..if everyone decides not to have a PhD then many of Masters degree program may be halted due to lack of teacher with PhD degree after a generation or so...what do u think?" I think that I should ask you this: Why are not the Ph.D. programs halted then? |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 29-Jul-03 05:55 PM
Echoes bhai, je bhaye pani bhai tyo maha daktar Professor, post-doc haru le padhaunchhan ni ta bhai ... some bhaujus may be closely closely monitoring my activities here........... Sajheli (Sa_jhyali SyanJali SaJheli Jheli Jhyali Jali.....in jest) haru sanga bolyo ki polyo bhanera bhanthe ek jana sathi le yeha.......testai bhairachha yeha |