| Username |
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| sally |
Posted
on 09-Apr-03 06:45 AM
Yesterday a friend at work came to me with a question. The son of a friend of hers, a college student, wants to do a year abroad--in a monastery in Tibet. I gather he has never traveled in that part of the world, but was moved by a class he took.
My friend was concerned; her sister had been to Tibet and found life in the monasteries, or at least what she could observe as a tourist, to be tightly government-controled, with daily visits by a Chinese official, and impoverished to the point that the monks seemed to lack adequate food.
I had to tell her that I don't really know a thing about monastery life in Tibet, or what sort of experience her friend's kid might have there.
Does anyone else have a better sense of what Tibetan life (monastery or otherwise) is like right now, and whether it's really possible, under the Chinese, to study and practice Buddhism there as a foreigner? Or can anyone think of other options that I could suggest? Obviously studying Tibetan Buddhism in KTM is the safe and comfortable option, although he might want a more "remote" experience. Solukhumbu? Ladakh? Bhutan? Does anyone have any knowledge of those places?
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| surya |
Posted
on 09-Apr-03 10:05 AM
Sally, I don't know much about living in Tibet though it seemed like it's not as scary as before. But your friend friend might find more comfort in sending her kid to a monastary in Nepal.
There is Thuptinchilin in Solu. It's remote enough for those who want the "remote" experience, but pretty close to Phaplu. The Rimpoche is very well respected and I think is supposed to have even more senior to Dalai Lama (maybe he is supposed to have more incarnations than Dalai Lama ...who knows).
Personally, I would not want to live in a monastary.Monastic life might seem exotic and cool for outsiders. But from what I have seen, at best it is simply austere and can be socially and spirituatlly challenging, at its worse, it is pure drudgery, the learning all done by rote, and the young, poor, female acolyte are always vulnerable to abuse.
Of course for a bideshi, especially an American male, the going might not be as tough.
There is also Dharmashala in India.
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| sally |
Posted
on 09-Apr-03 10:51 AM
Thanks, Surya. Yes, there's definitely a tendency to exoticize monastery life. I remember some young monks telling me with pride once how they'd saved their collection money from foreigners and bought a nice watch and snazzy shoes. Many monks, in my (very limited) experience, haven't even heard of Tilaurakot.
I'm sure there's spiritual satisfaction in that life, and many learned individuals (as there are all in all walks of life), but I expect this kid, if he follows through with his plan, will have an extraordinarily eye-opening experience--and not entirely in the direction that he expected. But that's OK. It's all part of learning.
Any more tips? Any Sherpas or Tamangs out there? Any practicing Buddhists?
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| theba |
Posted
on 09-Apr-03 01:30 PM
Dear Sally,
I was planning to be just a silent observer of this thread for my knowledge in the area of your question is rather inadequate, but since you called upon Sherpas, Tamangs and practicing Buddhists and my having fallen in that category, I will attempt to share what little I know.
I know of a very highly respected Buddhist teacher in Darjeeling who runs a monastery near Siliguri. He is not only quite learned in Lama-ism, but is also a holder of mainstream PhD. He is known to have taken disciples now and then. He also conducts shorter sessions - few weeks to few months - for lay people who wish to explore their spirituality. I do not think he charges money or fees, but his monastery is open to donations. You are welcome to email me if you want me to inquire further on this matter.
There is another very learned lama who shuttles between Darjeeling's Dali Gumba and Boudha. This western-born molecular biologist-turned-monk Mattheiu Ricard, together with his philosopher father Jean-Francois Revel, have authored a book titled, "The Monk and the Philosopher: A Father and Son Discuss the Meaning of Life." He might be willing to take someone like your friend as his student for their background might match.
During my last visit to Boudha, I saw many people with fair skin and blond hair (I hesitate to call them foreigners because they could very well be Nepali by citizenship, just like there are many Americans with brown complexion and black hair) wearing maroon colored robes of apprentice lamas, twirling their maneys and whispering sutras. So there must be a structural school of some sort, how one goes about getting admission into one, I do not know.
It is a long and arduous path that this young friend of yours is considering to undertake. Though it is not my position to question his commitment, I hope his interest is not ephemeral in nature because if it is, then he will surely be disillusioned. May I dare suggest that the young man should read vaious good books on Buddhism, to gain a firm background and take a test of time, before he embarks upon this journey?
I know this did not help much, but for what it's worth...
Theba.
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| endless_knot |
Posted
on 09-Apr-03 02:16 PM
Sally,
I posted ur post in these Tibetan websites:
Please check:
http://phayul.com/forum/replies.asp?fid=4&tid=6123
http://www.tibetboard.tibetsearch.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=0f832a5b6a43157db1dcb945ac47fc14;act=ST;f=8;t=330
Hope u get some information.
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| sally |
Posted
on 10-Apr-03 12:55 PM
Thanks, all. I don't know the young man, but I do wish him luck,and I'll pass on all the info.
And I did wonder if the "ethnic profile" of Sajha was a little on the limited side--perhaps not quite representative of the whole community (not that that would be a surprise, since most Sajhabasi are based in the US)--but anyway, it's nice to see there's at least one Buddhist Sajhabasi out there!
I bet, though, that just about everyone else on this board has been taken for a Buddhist by Americans, and surprised people by saying that, no, actually, all Nepalis aren't Buddhists.
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| surya |
Posted
on 10-Apr-03 12:59 PM
Sally, not little! A lot is what I would say about diversity in sajha!!
About being Buddhist... I think most Nepali Hindus consider themselves Buddhist by extension. So...
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| sally |
Posted
on 10-Apr-03 01:07 PM
Well, yeah, Buddhist by extension ... Sure, and if Jesus and Mohammed had been born in South Asia people would be Christian and Muslim by extension, too, since those guys would just be taken as the Xth incarnation of Vishnu ... But Buddhist by extension and practicing it as, say, someone in a Tamang family might do is different to me.
Btw did you mean a lot of diversity, or a lot on the limited side?
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| surya |
Posted
on 10-Apr-03 01:22 PM
Yes, a lot on the limited side...
Some Hindus pray to Jesus too and have the sufer version of is image up on their pooja kotha walls! It's called covering all bases... if Vishnu himself doesn't do it, Jesus might. Doesn't matter if Jesus is not desi south asian.
And yes, I would love to hear from practicing Buddhist too. Hate to go on about it, but I thought Tamangs like many other Kirat jatis were more animistic and not necessrily "Buddhist" or "Hindu". But you know, I have been proven to be wrong once in a while:)
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| Theba |
Posted
on 10-Apr-03 02:37 PM
<...grin...>
You are right, Surya, Tamangs have been known to practice Shamanism and Shaivism like other Kirats but I am pretty sure that it is a trait adopted later. The hereditary mainstream religion for us is Vajrayana Buddhism. In this sect, the main buddha (there are many buddhas in our belief) whose teachings we follow is Padmasambava (aka Lotus Born, aka Guru Rimpoche), although Sangey (aka Gautam Buddha, aka Shakya-muni) holds a higher rank, for the lack of a better word.
Padmasambava was born (or rather, as the myth goes, took form in a lotus, hence the name) in Afghanistan, eight years after Shakya-muni's death. He is said to have moved on to Tibet and then to Nepal. A place near Pharping, just outside Kathmandu valley, is supposedly the place where he spent most of the time meditating.
This is the place where Tamangs started their existence as Nepalis some 1500 years ago. According to some sila-lekhs (stone tablet documents), during the Licchavi era Tamangs (Ta=horse Mang=warrior, hence cavalry) originally migrated into Nepal from Tibet as part of Shrong-chon-gom-po's garrison. Shrong-chon-gom-po (sp?) is the Tibetan emperor who married princess Vrikuti from Kathmandu Hills.
Vajrayana (which is often referred to as Tibetan Buddhism in West), unlike Mahayana or Hinayana forms, is mystical or tantric and puts more emphasis on rituals and meditation. Perhaps, this is the reason why it is a much harder embodiment of Buddhism to comprehend.
As the myth goes, Shakya-muni initially tried to teach Vajrayana in its raw form to his disciples in Gaya, but when he did so, their ears started bleeding. Because of this he decided to leave it for his next life and concentrated on much gentler version. In his next incarnation as Padmasambava, he took Vajrayana to Tibet where it got refined and processed over the centuries by various bodhisatwas, and now is in its present form.
I hope I have answered Surya's question, though in a messy convoluted way. Again, my knowledge is limited and I could be wrong. One does like to blabber a lot about one's kind when given an opportunity, to be conceited is a sin they say, and for this I apologize.
Perhaps one day, I will have the good fortune to learn from you both and others in person about religions, philosophies and various topics over cappuchino at Barnes&Noble cafe on M Street :-)
Till then,
Theba Tamang
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| surya |
Posted
on 10-Apr-03 02:54 PM
That is indeed mostly all new to me. Who knew! Thanks Theba. So are the Hajaras in Afganistan related to Tamangs? I am familiar with the general difference in the various sects and philosophies, but not the history of the Kirats and otehr indegenous people of Nepal.
Cappuchino at Barnes&Noble cafe on M Street! I could do with some some coffee and a reality check right about now... so what say you, Sally?! Next week?
:)
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| bhedo |
Posted
on 10-Apr-03 03:11 PM
I really doubt Tamangs are related to the Hazaras. There shouldn't be any link, IMO. You see, Afghanistan was inhabited since time immemorial by indo-european speaking peoples--pashtuns, hazaras. In fact, the pakt tribe has been mentioned in the Mahabharata. Hazaras came later on, when the Mongols invaded that area. In reality, central asia used to be inhabited by people known as the scythians, blonde haired, blue eyed, aka nordic. They, however, mixed with mongoloids who camel later on. That's why today's central asians can range from highly caucasian to highly mongoloid. Also, how about the language? Language of the Tamangs would be Tibeto-Burman, btw. Now I would bet the Hazaras spoke some form of Turkic language. Uzbeks, I know for certain, speak some form of Turkic. Hazaras look very much like Uzbeks.
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| bhedo |
Posted
on 10-Apr-03 03:13 PM
whoops, it should have read, "speaking peoples--Pashtuns tajiks"
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| tick |
Posted
on 10-Apr-03 03:30 PM
Sally,
I really admire people that are intreguied by the life style in a monestery. Obliviously, people do not go to the monestery looking for luxury. The life in monestery is simple and challenging. Learning and practice along with the chores that needs to be completed can be challenging. It can be a very gratifying spiritual experience. I do not have any recommendation for a specific monastery even though I have been to most of the monastery in Katmandu.
There are many places to learn Buddhism. I would start from home then go aboard. There are Buddhist schools in America.
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| RI_boi |
Posted
on 10-Apr-03 11:35 PM
WOW......All this is really interesting and really fascinating.....i'm tamang and i never knew they had a really cool history...this stuff is really cool...nice....i read some where that Tamangs were adhibasi's. is this true??
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| sally |
Posted
on 11-Apr-03 07:46 AM
Theba, very interesting! I'd thought that Tamangs were relatively recent immigrants, like Sherpas, who (supposedly) came from Tibet maybe 400 years ago. But I guess when you think about it, given all the places that Tamangs live, it does make sense they've been there longer. Fascinating history.
RI_boi, I'm not sure if there really is such a thing as adhibasi ... I guess if you go far back enough, everyone migrated from somewhere, and with the inevitable racial and cultural mixing, who knows? ... 1500 years is a pretty long history, though.
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