| Sajha.com Archives | |
| Username | Post |
| Ryan | Posted
on 27-Apr-03 10:56 AM
Folks, I might sound silly here but I became a confused Deshi after I came to US. After living here for almost 8 years, I am still trying to find answers to several of my questions which I had when I was in Nepal. I had promised my brother that I would answer this question to him as soon as I come to US but I can't still give him good explanation why pepole don't want to go back to Nepal once they come to US. As I am getting ready to wrap of my stuffs and go to homeland for good, I would appreciate all of your inputs to this question so that I can better explain my family and friends in Nepal. Lets consider these points in our discussion. 1) America a Land of opportunity?? Now don't tell me that especially after 9/11 america's economy plunged so low that even Companies like AMR filing for Bankruptcy. I myself graduated Magnum Cum Laude in Computer Science , ranked second in my class-- no job! My friend finished his Master in Computer Science --no job! I am talking about the real job here, not the one in gas station or Pizza delivery or jobs at Malls. 2) Better technology? I buy that but is it worth to give up our family and country for this? 3) Getting paid in Dollar? OK! Now this looks like a real deal. But how about the expenses we incur? If you are saving lil some some, thats good. But I am not. 4) Freedom of Speech? Oh well! Jay Leno makes fun of president Bush every night on his Late Night Show. Even Dixie Chiks said they were ashamed that Bush is from Texas. They can make fun of even the President here.Now this could mean a real freedom for me when I recall my 4th grade Math teacher (in Nepal) used to spank me on my butt with a big stick for not doing my homework. But hey are any of us excersing this right of freedom of speech here? Is this a big deal though? 5) Beaches, night clubs, strip clubs and drinks? Ummm...Been there and done that! Nothing exciting for me anymore. Could mean something to you though! Now friends, you got the pitch. Shoot me some of your intellectual thoughts so that I don't look dumb ass infront of my brother, family and friends. Not to mention, I am already a confused Deshi but I hate to be a dumb ass! --Ryan |
| touch_the_sky | Posted
on 27-Apr-03 11:31 AM
Ryan, I don't understand what the confusion is all about. You could not or did not want to competetewith the crowd and now are returning to your country. So what's all this about being confused about your identity. As far as you are concerned you are a Nepali so be that and be proud of yourself. |
| saral | Posted
on 27-Apr-03 12:49 PM
hey ryan, there is nothing to be confused. as you said you are graduate and got computer science degree, you can always return back home. i dont think we should think about going back to nepal. i have also seen life here and i did nt find so exciting as we used to think before coming here. i guess we specially south asians are poor and we dont have much opportunity in our country. many youth could nt get job after graduation and country's situation is deteriorating. there is not much budget for development and thus hard to get job. i dont think foreign students who come from developed countries like western europe, japan, australia are confused like us about returning home after school. i have some european class mates and they dont worry about job market in USA because they are not staying here after their study. but in our case very few are ready to go back nepal, some of us even prefer working here in gas station or whatever (not professional job related to degree) rather than going back. but we should think right, if we work in such places, can we work like that forever? what is the use of such degree then if we can not use in practical life? well i agree we can earn more here, but expenses are also a lot, like rent, insurance, tuition fees and eveything. i think if one can earn 20,000 nep rupees in nepal, then he/she can live good life there. life is pretty easy there, specailly with family, friends, neighbor, own society, culture, country and everything. it is just my thinking. well you are talking about freedom and here is no caste system or something. sometime i get confused, well i think here is also discrimination exists. like no similar pay for men and women even if both are equally qualified, preferences are white male, then white female, and then come other. though they dont have caste system like bahun, chetri, newar, tamang or many more, here they have white male, white female, black, asians, muslim and many more. have you noticed the life of old people here, its like hell, can you imagine our parents like that, i mean they dont have their children with them, no one to take care, life is very materialistic, well grand childrens might prefer going bar rather than spending few hours with their grand parents. i dont like this thing here may be its because i grew up in nepali culture in nepal. |
| rook | Posted
on 27-Apr-03 02:09 PM
I can guarantee that you will not be content living in Nepal. You will hate yourself for making the decision to return. Im sure you know that the further you get from graduation date without finding a job in your field, the more difficult it is to ever find that job. Wish you luck but have doubts. |
| bhenda2 | Posted
on 28-Apr-03 09:06 AM
I like it here because I dont like the way Nepali society is up in my ass all the time for eg.. kati paisa kamaoucha? kaihiely biha garney? keena jat namilay sang biha garya? kahiley bachha pauney? Thulo badha, dhani hunu parney...paisa nabhai nabhai..jagga ghar bechi biha bhoj garnoo parney...these are some of the points that I really cant stand about Nepali society and Nepal.... |
| bewakoof | Posted
on 28-Apr-03 09:46 AM
Ryan dude, Perhaps you are attributing your personal jobless/unsatisfied state of being as an indictment against the all things American. I believe that actions speak louder than words and if you really thought it was better for you back in Nepal, you would have gone back. And I also think it depends upon individual circumstances. For some it could be better here and for some it could be better in Nepal. And I must object to you and your buddy's joblessness somehow proving that US is not a land of opportunity. I think US is clearly the place with the best opportunity to do what you want and succeed. Its not perfect, only better than any other place. One thing to keep in mind is that opportunity is a two edged sword. You can succeed but you can also fail. And it is a free-market economy with its inevitable ups and downs. As opposed to socialist/communist systems with guaranteed downs and downs and stagnation. |
| Logical Sense | Posted
on 28-Apr-03 10:54 AM
Ryan, I think there is no substitute to being able to go back to your home country and be with your family for life. Those of us who chose to stay here in US is not staying by choice, but, because of many different reasons and in GBNC/Sajha we have discussed this topic thousands of times. You could browse through archives and find many interesting remarks. Just to quickly recap: 1) US ecnomy is way bigger than we can fathom only by analyzing the dot com bust. Thoser are I called cream of economy which can keep changing with change in technology and many other factors, but, basic US economy is in solid foundation which does not shake that easily even Perl Harbor did not do it, 9/11 did not do it. 2) For me, if I had to leave my country of birth for my professional development then there is only other country in this World which I can call my 'home' and be proud of and that is USA. Period. This is the only country which I can is as 'mine' as anybody else. 3) Does not mean we/I forget about Nepal or our roots? Not really, rather I feel we are strongly bonded with our family than my other siblings who are scattered around Nepal. That may be because we miss our home more than they do. Also, because we are 'minority' in this country and that makes us more aware of our cultures and roots which makes our kids more culture aware and they become more humble. I compare this by directly comparing with other kids in our hunmoungous family in Nepal. 4) Freedom of speech and sense of security and stability is one of the main reasons for my stay in US. 5) Here, individual matters, does not matter where you come from. Remember the story of speech writer of George Bush, walking around in White House who did not even have security clearance, forget about having Green Card. He was hired for his ability not for his citizenship. Secretary of State Collin Powell, Dr. Kissinger, Mrs. Albright are all naturalized citizens, and they are millions of others like that. Did you know how many Indian engineers were involved in most secretive Manhattan project in American History? So, you and your friend not finding job is a tragedy of bad economy which hit just when you were in the market. It is unfortunate, but, it is definitely not norm. 6) This society is very inclusive. They can take anything which are good in other society. Did you know that many formation in Grand Canyon are named after Hindu Gods many decades ago? There are Shiva, Brahma stupas which look like these deities when you look from far. 7) Better technology, and other miscellaneous advantages of being in US are just a bonus not a must for me. But, again, let me conclude by saying, "If I wanted to get out of my beloved country then it will be only USA". - iti NOTE: Having said that, I am not putting down anyother countries, or not saying anyting against them. By praising one, I am not criticizing others. Every country has advantages and disadvantages. Only different in USA is there is no 'native' (other than native Americans, which are sadly in their reseves, rather than in main stream - that is whole different story) who can tell us 'foreigner', rather, we are all 'foreigner' in this country, which makes it much easier to mingle around. |
| Logical Sense | Posted
on 28-Apr-03 12:05 PM
Just to elaborate on my point #1. What is the indicator of US basic economy (the one which does not get affected by short term turmoils) is in solid back ground? During best days of dot com economy (Clinton era), the unemployment was 4.2%, where the budget was balance, and the surplus was paying down the national debts. Now in the seemingly worst economy the unemployment is 5.8%? What does that tell you? Only 1.6% of extra US force is unemployeed. But, don't forget 94% is sill employed. This does not tell about the fate of people like you and me who are like migrant worker, and we are only wanted when there is a void. At this moment the US job market is saturted hence people like you and me become 100% in that 1.6%. But, again, that should be temporary, and it has happened before. It may last long, it may last short, but, it should be over soon. - iti |
| Logical Sense | Posted
on 28-Apr-03 12:09 PM
I take it back on last but one statistics, we are not counted in that 1.6%. But, besides that point, the migrant workers with H1B are not that many less than 145,000 each year (multiply that by 6, less than 1Million, I think out of 75 million work force). |
| tick | Posted
on 28-Apr-03 12:48 PM
My 2 cents "There is no place like home" Even though US offers many opportunities for the "skilled" workforce, Skilled workforce can find work anywhere in the world including Nepal. Even though US offers less discrimination than the world, there is no place like home. US is good place for post-secondary education and to work when work is available. There are many opportunities in Nepal if you have any skill you will more likely find employment in Nepal than in US. I see less benefit while staying in US. |
| free thinker | Posted
on 28-Apr-03 03:23 PM
Interesting thoughts Logical sense ... I don't want to be off topic -and there is another thread I have started so feel free to post there - but do you think while Nepalese(or Indians or Chinese) are in the US, we need to make an effort to join the mainstream of this country? |
| well-wisher | Posted
on 28-Apr-03 03:58 PM
Logical sense, Can you explain the point on "freedom of speech"? How exactly does one have more freedom of speech in US than in Nepal? I thought it was the other way around. |
| forget-me-not | Posted
on 28-Apr-03 04:16 PM
Ryan, nepali born confused desi re???....but your article focusses on US and your confussion to return to nepal...deshi kasari bahyo ha???? |
| Logical Sense | Posted
on 28-Apr-03 06:10 PM
Free Speech? Point #4 from Ryan is just part of it. Read on..... Cut and Paste from an website http://archive.aclu.org/issues/freespeech/isfs.html ================================================== "One man's vulgarity is another's lyric." Justice John M. Harlan, Cohen v. California (1971) It is probably no accident that freedom of speech is the first freedom mentioned in the First Amendment: Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. The Constitutions framers believed that freedom of inquiry and liberty of expression were the hallmarks of a democratic society. But historically, at times of national stress -- real or imagined -- First Amendment rights come under enormous pressure. During the Red Scare of the early 1920s, thousands were deported for their political views. During the McCarthy period, the infamous blacklist ruined lives and careers. Today, the creators, producers and distributers of popular culture are being blamed for the nations deep social problems. Calls for censorship threaten to erode free speech. The First Amendment exists precisely to protect the most offensive and controversial speech from government suppression. The best way to counter obnoxious speech is with more speech. Persuasion, not coercion, is the solution. ================================================== |
| Ryan | Posted
on 29-Apr-03 06:38 AM
Yeahhhh! My hats off to you guys for all of you who gave their valuable time to read and post their thoughts. Saral, ticks, you my man! Logical Sense, you expressed very logically. Appreicate your thoughts. Some of you who showed their hatredness to their own homeland, need to close their eyes and think for a second where they came from! If they already forgot where they came from, they soon will forget where they are now and they will even forget who they are by the time they die. So, Moral of the story is IDENTITY is very important and we shouldn't foget where we came from! My apology if I sounded rude! --Ryan |
| tick | Posted
on 29-Apr-03 09:44 AM
Freedom of speech is more evident in Nepal than in US. Look what happened to Dixie Chicks after anti war remarks! Also, look what is happening to GPK after his ruthless remarks about the monarch! Freedom of Speech is equally evident in Nepal if not more. The Nepalis in America can be as "white" as we like or be as "black" as we like but we will never be either one of them . Our place is Nepal our home is Nepal. Let us hope that peace prevails! |
| OneGirl_123 | Posted
on 30-Apr-03 03:53 PM
hhmmm ur tired of beaches, drinks and things? ummm maybe thats a sign of u getting OLD! ever thought of that ;) hehe...dont mean to depress u! ;) :) |
| Jezebel | Posted
on 30-Apr-03 04:15 PM
Ryan.......you've reached a point where there is no return.... oops!!! and onegirl may be right...think about it |
| south | Posted
on 30-Apr-03 04:29 PM
hey nepali gal, how about those who does that very occasionally, or like almost never. how do you call them? will you call them old even if they are in teens or in early 20s. i mean for beer and stuffs. |
| south | Posted
on 30-Apr-03 05:30 PM
sorry not nepali gal, it is onegirl_123. |
| jaya_nepal | Posted
on 30-Apr-03 06:15 PM
Ryan: Probably you are the few ones to make a right decision to go back home. I am myself stuck in this place. But will join you in Nepal soon after I graduate. Well, theresnt any place better than home. Giving excuses like, "Maoists issues", "Bad Economy" and "Bad Governance" by few intellectual Nepalese living outside Nepal is quite common. How many Nepalese living abroad have turned around and actually helped rebuild a peaceful Nepal, my answer would be zero? Nepal has potential to be the richest nation in the world, if all Nepalese unite. When a small nation like Japan can, then why cannot Nepal. We lack a good vision, a good determination and a good-mentality. Whether it is Girija sarkar or Nepal sarkar, doesnt matter, if all well educated people get together, we can definitely do something about it. Your reason to go back home would be help rebuild Nepal. Unite all the Nepalese living across the globe and start a rebuild campaign. That should be your mission while you are there in Nepal. Do not complain that US economy is bad or you missed your home, tell your family and friends that you are back for the country. Your country needs you and all the Nepalese living abroad. Good Luck with your campaign SAATHI. I am sure success will be at doorsteps if you really are determiined. You have seen the world, you can do it. |
| yoUnGbLooDZ | Posted
on 30-Apr-03 06:22 PM
wtf.. how can that be.. NEPALI BORN CONFUSED DESI... topic nai thik choina.. posting ke thik hola yb |
| Ryan | Posted
on 01-May-03 06:49 AM
One girl_123, You could be right that I might be getting old.Junga dari pani fulechan! (hehehe). It could be even true that everybody remembers their homeland when they grow old. Isn't that our human nature when we are young, we tend to forget everything for few good things in life? I am atleast glad that I woke up now and realize my importance to my family and country. One girl_123, you might never get tired of beaches, night clubs and lap dances, but I guarentee you will be tired of USA one of these days and your heart will fill with full of love towards NEPAL. That time you will post another posting in Sajha and there will be so many supporters for you like I am having right now. Honest to god, is there any Nepalese out here who can call USA their home? Is there any Nepalese out here who feel like they belong here? NO! Never in your whole life you will feel that you belong to USA. You will have sense of insecurity in your heart all the time that you are a foreigner. Your heart will never beat with proud even you get the biggest accomplishments in USA. Whereas you will fell so proud when you do very small things to help your country change. Jaya_Nepal, you my man! My salute to you, chief! |
| tick | Posted
on 01-May-03 08:29 AM
Ryan, Jaya_Nepal, I feel the same way. I have lived and worked in this country for a long time. I had not felt "out of place" but now I feel I do not belong here. The maobadi problem, the Girija problem or the corruption it doesn't matter. I am going back never to return. |
| jaya_nepal | Posted
on 01-May-03 08:58 AM
A conversation between two nepalis in USA, "Dai, kati bho Nepal na janu bhako? Dherai bho na bhi. Cha barsa Chicago aako bhayo, tyo bhanda pahile, 5 barsa ta nebraska ma nai thiye. Ani Dai, Nepal na farkineta? Bhaiiii, aba timi lai ke bhanne, Nepal gayera ke garni. Shanti chaina, paisa chaina, kehi ta chaina ni yaar. Aama-buba hun huncha tara ke garne, paisa pathai di rahe ko cha, bhai halyo ni. Ani yahan kati nai kamaunu huncha ra, Dai? Aba paisa ta bhai halcha ni bhai, din ko das dekhi barah ghanta kaam garincha. kahan, dai? Tyo Taco Bell ma kya." This is what the usual Nepalese in USA thinks. They can work in the shittiest environment here in the USA. Given a chance, they wouldnt even want to work as an assisstant officer back home. They feel proud being a Nepali and always talk about rebuilding Nepal. My shame on 99% of such people living in the USA. |
| Ryan | Posted
on 01-May-03 01:11 PM
jaya_nepal and ticks, Thank you once again for your support. Reality is what jaya_nepal said. If you ask a Nepali living in US, when will you go to Nepal, you will not get a definite answer. In that sense they have become a total confused Deshi. They have a love for their country but they don't have courage to go and struggle there. What a shame?? --Ryan |
| AX | Posted
on 01-May-03 01:28 PM
if that's what CONFUSED DESHI means, I am one of them. |
| narendra | Posted
on 01-May-03 02:50 PM
How come this dude is nepali and desi. must be from terai. |
| babaal | Posted
on 01-May-03 02:58 PM
so terai is not in Nepal? |
| czar | Posted
on 01-May-03 03:07 PM
It seems to be common to either A. Do Nepal bashing B. Nepali bashing Nepal bashing is borne out of frustration on what seems like lack of change and fulfillment of expectations. Nothing happens overnight and it takes time. Most dont have the patience to wait, that wrenching sacrifices are demanded from all. While we are at it, what is wrong in expecting good governance, functional civic amenities and educational system etc? This is what citizens of every nation aspire to. To express frusration over it, and for some, to leave Nepal and seek greener pastures does not abritrarily indicate treachery on their part. That is a fallacy. There is no dignity of labour in Nepal. That hangover shows here when some look down on those working in Taco Bell. What is so wrong or distasteful in that ? Its all those hypothetical Taco Bell workers from the US, Middle East and other parts of Asia sending money home that has kept afloat Nepal Rastra Bank's forex reserves. Might I counsel some appreciation for them ? By all means, for those that prefer to go back to Nepal, God speed. However, do not by any means consider that those who choose to stay overseas are all full of hot air. That such people are all bums long on rhetoric and short on action when it comes to doing 'matri bhumi ko seva.' As for those that dream that Nepal can be the richest country in the world, I agree with them it can be in our minds. On terra firma ? Kuni hai. |
| ashu | Posted
on 01-May-03 07:31 PM
And, here I am in Nepal, observing (and to a minor extent, participating in) the tiny but unmistakable rise of young Nepali professionals rooted in Nepal who are -- more and more -- spending more time in international airports and on air than with their own families in Kathmandu . . . And I predict that in the next 10 years, the number of such Nepalis -- armed with laptops and communication gadgets and brimming with (often acquired-from-the-West) talents and knowledge and networks -- will only increase, reaching a critical mass of global professionals based out of Kathmandu, selling their skills and knowledge to the global marketplace. As Pico Iyer, a travel writer I have long admired for his sharp observations, asks in his fascinating, and highly-recommended new book -- "The Global Soul: Jet-lag, shopping malls and the search for home" -- How do you define what home is in this world gone mobile? oohi ashu ktm,nepal |