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| Username | Post |
| jaya_nepal | Posted
on 11-May-03 07:50 PM
After King Gyanendra's interview was published in the interview, GK also did the same, this time lambasting the King. Please read the extract of his interview at www.kantipuronline.com or www.nepalnews.com. His first arguement is Chand was appointed without the consent of the parties and moreover GK recommended King G to appoint Madhav as PM. Now, is there even a slightest chance that GK could do that leaving behind his close allies - Bastola, Koirala(s) and many more. Who is he trying to fooool? GK and Madhav couldnt even see each other in the public prior to October 4. He claims that Deuba was pressurized by the RNA to extend the emergency. And hence the October 4 event. Who pressurized Deuba - GK or RNA. None needs to be clarified. GK always tried to dominate Deuba only to assume power both in the government and within the party. He is responsible for the NC split. Why doesnt he allow anyone apart from Koirala family to rule NC or government. He has a misconcemption being the most successfull leader. His final argument was JIPC report should also investigate the Royal expenses. How could he compare himself with the monarch. The monarch has been acquiring properties from his ancestors. How come Koiralas, Bastola, Nepals, Khadkas and others became millionairs just after the revolution. I remember, Bastola did not even have daura-suruwal and shoes to see King Birendra to accept his credentials as the Nepali Envoy to India. How come now he a has more than 80 Lakhs worth car(SUV) and a house in Kathmandu. Did he acquire from his father - No. All the leaders are the same. King G is known was known as a businessman better than even a prince. Though he no longer has any business under him directly, but he must have definitely saved tons. He doesnt need to clarify his expenses. Is it that GK wants some money from King G, I guess only the Royals are so far excluded from the list of people he has accepted money or others for his personal benefits. Seems, that is why he is now targeting the monarch. These are few arguements he made apart from others that King G was trying to develop a gap between NC and UML, he introduced his "Game" after he was informed about GK meeting Maoists and many others. When would the day come when he describes his so called "Grand Palace Design". ? Is it taking longer time to prepare one than he expected? To me seems like that.... Any comments would be more than appreciated. Jai Desh, Jai Naresh ----Jaya_Nepal |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 11-May-03 07:57 PM
girija bahulayo~ nepal has a population of 23. 4 million, and its not a surprsie that we have a few bahulas among dui karod nepali. |
| HahooGuru | Posted
on 11-May-03 08:14 PM
Bastola in his interview to Bimarsha/Deshantar once told that when they tried to kick out Deoba, it all happened. I had posted a part of article in jpeg picture format. Girija 's days are counted. He will be killed by GRJ and Sujata gang and blamed to King G. They know that GPK will have more respect if dies of "MURDER" then of natural death. Sujata will also have advantage of Girija dying bullet/knife deaths. HG |
| M.P. | Posted
on 11-May-03 08:53 PM
Girija certainly has a desire for power (evidence: he was after both Bhattarai and Deuba when he was not in power and helped dissolve the parliament or at least the government). We do not know whether it was his intention to promote nepotism by bringing his family members into politics, but let's face it, most of his family members, by which I mean Sushil, Sujata and Mahesh, continue to hold clean images in public (evidence: Gupta, Wagle, Joshi, or Khadka do not belong with the koirala clan. Correct me if I am wrong). BUT What he has said in this interview makes a lot of sense to me. Here is why: 1) If the King wants to set an example, he should be transparent in his deals. All these corrupt leaders should be punished but any corrupt person--or someone who intentionally hides information--should not be made an exception just because s/he holds 50,000 armed bhaktas under his/her control. 2) This is not the first time Mr Koirala has said that the king has been playing against the political parties, trying to create rifts among them (Magh 1-15 issue of Nepal has covered what he had to say). And this argument has not been refuted. Why? Probably because the victims of this king's game are all alive and, unfortunately, they seem to be very close to each other at this point. 3) About his nominating MKN for premiership: Things change. It is equally hard, if not harder, to imagine the Maoists sitting together for a talk with the King's government as it is to see Girija getting along with the UML. 4) GPK had been struggling from within the parliamentary to reduce the role of the king (read the Magh issue of Nepal magazine for details). This is something our "nationalist" commie brothers had to kill people to bargain for! 5) And it does not make sense to me when a person who says he is obliged to stick to the system of constitutional monarchy comes out to the press and starts talking about politics. If he considers himself to be the symbol of national unity, he should remain above power politics and let the people decide for themselves. Let the people fight against each other if that solves the problem of ethnic, gender, and regional disparities, economic sluggishness, and other social issues. If his balls itch when he sees democratic practices establishing themselves gradually, he should, as Madan Bhandari once asked, put aside his sripech and compete in the elections. Why not declare a constituent assemly tomorrow? Why the delay? Now, the things that GPK said that DO NOT make sense to me: 1) Grand design. If Gyanendra is behind the June 1 incident--which, I think is very unlikely, he should reveal the truth now and with evidence. I do not understand why he wants to lose his status by iterating the same thing again and again when people have stopped taking his idea of grand design seriously. 2) He should not defend those who are corrupt among his party leaders. Asking the king to be transparent without confessing that his collegues (sp?) have committed huge corrptuon is more like BRB talking about people from Rolpa who have died in the war in response to a question about Mohan Shrestha. And in a way, it is not much different from the king saying he is trying to create an non-corrupt atmosphere when even the property details of Birendra have not been published. Looking forward to seeing the Agragami Bikash from the two self-declared "nationalist" forces, M.P. |
| prawin | Posted
on 11-May-03 10:16 PM
to write Jai Desh, Jai Naresh, and in the same breath to write Jai Nepal is Hypocritical. THAT, is something that doesn't need any explaination. Nepali populace has long made a favorite occupation of Girija bashing. Nepali populace has made a favourite occupation of bashing peopel in general. Why is Girija bashing so pathetic? because the the very comprehension of Girija-- that as a leader he is easily moved by those around him [and therefore a comment like "Now, is there even a slightest chance that GK could do that leaving behind his close allies - Bastola, Koirala(s) and many more. Who is he trying to fooool?" and so on], that he is only a pawn and so on, mean aplenty that it isn't the pawn that outght o be blamed but the real actor. the Real Actor is Prithivi Narayan Shan and his conceiving of the modern Nepali nation through the seeds of Jagireness [oh! this kid goes too far! he really knows nothing of what he says! I must sermonize him!]. You want to blame Girija, or Bamdev, or Baburam? Blame YOURSELF FIRST, YOU BITCH!! Girija is wonderful. for a democracy imposed upon an inexoperienced people, he fostered just the corruption that would make it reactive. MaKuNe is great, because, although he had the most strong voice, because in a true democracy the opposition is more at liberty to voice dissent than the leading party is at liberty to shape policies, UML plundered the country for nine months, sowed seeds of discontent that would plague every other party after it, and gave the nascent democracy the vocabulary of opposition. Baburam is the Robin Hood that every innocent soul subjected to such a long time of injustice [PNS's Feudal structure, the Rana Jagine hierarchy, Panchayat's promotion of the selected few] would have asked for. Chand is the Greatest. he oversaw the birth of democracy, even though he was presented as thereactionary force. and then he successfully oversaw the demise of it, after King G B B S took it away. and he continues to be that person who history will repeatedly blame. YOU, Bitch who sits behind the comfort of a computer screen, how much would enjoy being blamed for being the person who repeatedly tried to murder democracy? but SOMEONE has to do it, and my HERO, CHAND, is that person, he DEFINES YOU, he DEFINED how you react to the idea of democracy, and to the idea of democracy being taken away. but what wuld you appreciate of that? it is the people who are to blame. most people are too busy earnig a living, they can't be blamed. who is to blame then?? YOU! and YOU, MINDLESS BITCH OUT TO UNDERSCORE THE FORCES THAT ACT AS HISTORY, are to blame the most. given the realities that Nepal existed under, no one could have avoided Girija, or Bamdev, or even Chand or Mandal-- they are what are REAL, while those who bark in these pretentious websites [SAJHA as in hami sabai ko sajha--what pretentious shit! shame on you for even saying that! no one knows what sajha dot com means in Chhimkeshwori! YOU don't know about Chhimkeshwori either, so SHAME ON YOU for posting this pretentious shit cursing Girija. he hijacked a plane to liberate a country. what have you done? typed some self-indulgant shit?>???? [i am so furious right now. . .] there is no real NEPALI PEOPLE. i say the reason is very clear-- because here is NO REAL NEPAL. [this kid is delirious, something ticked him off, and he barks with such passion it affects his judgment] i wish YOU [Jaya Nepal-- you should have said "Jaya Desh jaya Naresh, as i remember form numerous Gram Panchayat meetings from my childhood years when i used to go sit and listen to elders, instead of calling yourself Jaya Nepal, a salutation a lot of people gave their lives for, a lot of them who were not even Nepali, but wanted us to enjoy a nationhood] were before me. my name is Prawin Adhikari. i am a real person, and i think you are talking out of your ass. i am also very furious. i wouldn't do this if i were not as furious. i am only an ignorant student, but i know you are mostly talking out of your ass. Tube, make no fun of me here. i am pissed, and i will see this through. |
| prawin | Posted
on 11-May-03 10:34 PM
--->GK and Madhav couldnt even see each other in the public prior to October 4. <--- ---well... that's what they said about the Maoists too, but it turns out that both GPK [there is a Prasad in his name, you twit, and that name was given by someone who abandoned his birta to go sell newspaers in Kashi for, so respect that] and MaKuNe talked to the Maoists when everyone expected them not to. they are in an occupation where [in somewhat Machiavellian terms] secrecy and the capacity to carry out secret negotions is prized. why would YOU think you can predict any politician, let along Girija, who, despite being lambasted by everyone, is nevertheless the only real force capable of upsetting any other power that be in the country? --> Who pressurized Deuba - GK or RNA<-- if you haven't forgotten Recent history, Girija Prasad Koiral RESIGNED after RNA refused to cooperate. how could GPK "pressurize" a faction that doesn't even co-operate with him? -->None needs to be clarified<-- You are hiilarious. and you almost always talk out of your ass. you not only neglect the fact that History shapes itself, adn is in itself more worthy of attention than individual actors, but you tend to simplify it. that is unforgivable. -->His final argument was JIPC report should also investigate the Royal expenses.<-- Why SHOULDN'T he? Gyanendra Shah was, for a very long time, one of the most prominent businessmen in Nepal, owning a cigarette facctory where more than half the population smokes, and many many other business establishments. Poiticians take bribes. So You've understood that. How bright of you!! And Who gives them the Bribe?? what do i hear--did someone say--the BUSINESSMEN??? Ow! so what does one of the biggest businessmen have to say about all the corruption that businessmen created? what does he have to say about the billion of rupees he and his community paid to poor politicians to carve a class of noveau-riche aristocrats? if the Businessmen pay--say--30 billion rupees to the politicians, does that mean they make at least 31 billion? Probably. was Gyanendra a MASSIVE business-interest holder priior to June-1st? YES. -->King G is known was known as a businessman better than even a prince.<-- this is what YOU say. i agree with you for once. he is a patron of Corruption. agree with me now. do i think GPK, MaKuNe, Bamdev, Thapa, Mandal, Chand did any good? NO! but who was the WORST?? the BUSINESS COMMUNITY. and Gyanendra ws a patron of corruption even during the panchayat era. i am still pissed at how this guy can go on saying these things. |
| prawin | Posted
on 11-May-03 10:37 PM
who is the culprit? the seed, or the gardener who plants it, waters it, gives it sun and shade just as it needs it? the business community forced upon Nepali history politicians like Girija and Makune [when you blame one, you must blame the other, or you wouldn't be doing your act correctly] and created this turmoil. Baburam first reacted against it, and then within it. i should leave this be. i will just go on being more pissed at this guy who says "jai desh, jai Naresh" in the same breath as Jai Nepal. that really pisses me off. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 11-May-03 11:28 PM
>i should leave this be. i will just go on >being more pissed at this guy who says >"jai desh, jai Naresh" in the same breath >as Jai Nepal. Prawinji, You hit the bull's eye. You can't say Jay Desh Jaya Naresh (May be Jaya Yuvaraj too?) in the same breath as Jaya Nepal. Period. Girija Pd Koirala is fighting for people's right, sovereignty, and to safeguard people from the scourge of monarchy. Very few leaders in their 80s are this much active. He had checkered past. But although he could nominate his daughter to NC Central Comittee , he didn't do that. Contrast that with the Vijaya Dashami scheme of Gyanendra last year. And Gyanendra is a liar when he says everything he says /does is approved by Chanda. And what is this new revelation about Sharad Chandra , chhupi chhupi, being the advisor of the prime minister? Where is transparency? |
| HahooGuru | Posted
on 12-May-03 02:33 AM
Biswo ji writes: But although he could nominate his daughter to NC Central Comittee , he didn't do that. Biswo ji, I wonder how much you know the inside story of Nepali Congress Pvt. Ltd., Girija as CEO. Girija is playing a grand design game to elevate his daughter to the post of NC President. Whether you believe or not, peoples in Nepali Congress who are not blind supporters of Girija know his grand design. How Suajata play game in every event in NC. She is resisted by Shailaja, but, many strong supporters of Girija were surprised to find Sujata playing the back stage. In all nominations of GM of Corporations to Ambassadors to Different countries, she was the main person to prepare and shuffle lists. She went to nominate or promote even a sub-inspector to inspector. It is not Girija who did not appoint her to CWC member, its NC's constitution that did bar his daughter. The main opposers were Shailaja and MAhesh Acharya. Sujata was objected by Sailaja, and Sujata think that Sailaja is her great obstacle. GRJ was joint-secy at NC because of her Bhar Majdoor Prayash. We all know how corrupt is GRJ. GRJ used to wear Polyster ko pants in 2036, and now he rides PAaajjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeero. Has many bungalos in Kathmandu. Do you want to know that GRJ's son Deepak used to send money (via Hundi) to his younger brother to return to Nepal as earned money. There are peoples who know Deepak from close (because of their relation in NC), Deepak was even frustrated with his younger brother and said "ke garcha garcha tyasale, 5/6 hazar dollar ek mahina pani pugena bhancha". .... HG |
| sparsha | Posted
on 12-May-03 07:29 AM
Prawin, Wow! you sound pretty angry. Furious! I couldn't disagree. I always thought you're Prawin Adhikary even though you sign in as just Prawin. I was guessing Adhikary on my own. And my guess also incuded *Budhabare* with your name. I am not sure if my guess is knocking the reality. What does it matter if you are who I think you are? or what does it matter if Budhabare has anything to do with you or not? Nothing for the argument you have put forward. But Prawin Adhikary I knew was so soft spoken and I don't remember him lose cool like this in above posts. That's why I was only wondering. I read your comments with great interest but didn't agree with all what you had to say except on one thing-large number of businesspeople are not just businesspeople but patrons of corruption as well. I still don't understand why can't one jay desh-jay naresh and jay nepal in one breath. Biswoji has also supported you on this. So, explanation from either of you would be good. I don't buy this idea of Makune or GPK being the defenders of democracy stuff. They are not defenders of democracy to me. They failed and failed and failed again and again in the practice of democracy. They couldn't even pass a test drive-forget about running democracy. From my observation, democracy for them is a vehicle that takes them to Singh durbar. Anyone on their way is the culprit and everything that culprit does is unconstitutional. What is constitutional depends on who is in the power. If GPK is in Singhadurbar, everything that goes on is constitutional. Same thing is true with MAKUNE. These damn GPK and MAKUNE are looters of people's dreams. I am only focusing on these two parties because they claim to represent almost all of us. Maoists are worse than these GPK and MAKUNE gangs. Narayanhiti is not playing a fair game either. I don't argue with that. The palace needs to be transparent. I totally agree. GPK and MAKUNE are no leader to me. They need to be replaced by others who are dedicated to the nation and can prove. I don't want to be labeled as a NC, UML or any other party follower but will support any or all who come(s) to support our national interests. Since I am not Jaya_Nepal and your anger seemed to put him/her on the spot, I can't respond on his/her behalf. I hope he/she will defend his/her position and will counter your charges against him/her. |
| pijiu | Posted
on 12-May-03 07:48 AM
cool!!!!!cool!!!!!!!!!more......more.....: |
| Paschim | Posted
on 12-May-03 08:51 AM
Without undermining Narayan Wagle's talents to consistently do justice to his subject, this interview from Koirala will probably go down as one of his most "memorable" (in a tumultuous career that has spanned 60 years and five kings). As a self-appointed drafter of GPK's obituary (give me 7 more years coz he ain't dyin' soon), this page must be preserved to cultivate future sources -- esp. how Mr. Fernandes was bullied to summon Prachanda in the thick of war. Badri Mandal's men apparently busted heads of protesters yesterday. If anyone can lend me a proper cotton turban (ideally made in Chandigadh, Amritsar or Haryana itself) for the duration of the second round of protests just announced, I would be much obliged. |
| HahooGuru | Posted
on 12-May-03 08:54 AM
Prawin: Gyanendra was a patron of corruption even during the panchayat era. This statement does not allow GPK and Makune to run another corruption spree. That should be well noted by blind supporters of GPK and Makune. Makune protected Bhim Rawal, when Rawal was accused of corruption from the Legislators within his own party. GRJ to whom I once raised PLACARD "written GRJ jindabad for continuous 2 months from morning to evening" on his support, know better than anyone in this forum who was GRJ, and I need to get a convincing answer that how did earn that much of money while residing in Nepal, without having taxable income. GRJ is the prince in NC, he is the richest person in NC. If you don't believe go and ask any Kangressi supporters. Well, there are supporters who even argue that Nepal corruption nagari kan politics huncha ki keho. Chhodidinos tyasta theoretical kuraharu. Yaha issue chha kasale thahai napai (CIAA ko ankaha ma chharo halna sakcha) tyo money lai legal banauna sakcha. Well, many peoples claim that Girija being old enough for what will he take bribe? The answer is this: Girija lai afno pocket ma rakhna ko lagi khayo bhanera maile pani bhandina, tara all Kangressies know that he took those money for the party and to buy his cadres. Yasma k naramro bho ta la bhannus ta: is the answer I get on Girija. Another factor is Girija's daughter Sujata. She is not only famous for corruptions in Nepal, ask those when to meet her in Tokyo. She told them that "how much money you can offer to NC, if you can not offer, don't come to meet me next time". When she was in Tokyo, she is Jhalmal diamond and Perl as if she was a princess . I respect Sailaja more than Girija or Makune. She did not have tadak bhadak when I saw her in Airport. Of course, her Hydropower policy is now working well in Nepal. She is great indeed, but, now she has been pakha by Sujata. HG |
| sparsha | Posted
on 12-May-03 09:13 AM
"..this interview from Koirala will probably go down as one of his most "memorable".." Then it probably will never go down in History, Paschim. "memorable" stays does not go down. No? "As a self-appointed drafter of GPK's obituary (give me 7 more years coz he ain't dyin' soon).." Are you challanging HahooGuru here? Paschim, Even though I am glad to be a loyal reader and a firm admirer of your writings-although I differ from your stand on many issues-I couldn't convince myself that the interview in question will stand as a favorably "memorable" in history. GPK changes speeches/stand as a teenager changes outfits. "sathiya gaya hai budhau"-he is destroying his legacy, so I think. Well, I guess we have to agree to disagree. |
| tick | Posted
on 12-May-03 10:07 AM
>"sathiya gaya hai budhau" Couldn't agree more. I have also heard that he is in desperation to save many of his "comrades" in the black list. |
| Orion | Posted
on 12-May-03 10:23 AM
Wow! Things are heating up on this forum and in the country. Good to see people coming out in favor of and against GPK/ GBBS. I think both GPK and GBBS draw passionate responses on this forum and in the country as both are increasingly polarizing figures. The point however is that while the right and center of Nepali poltics wage a jihad against one another, the political ground in Nepal is moving towards the left - and we are closer to a quasi communist state, if not a full fledged one, now than anytime in our history( maybe with a Royal coup as the precursor). |
| sparsha | Posted
on 12-May-03 11:15 AM
Orion, My observation: We regularly hear (usually from Maobadis - specifically BRB) that Nepal is a battlefield of three political forces right now. The King, Maoists, and parties. Since Maoists are out of the Jungle-at least for now, the King would very much like them to come to the power. The King rather would like to see BRB as the prime minister than MaKuNe or GPK now. If BRB comes to the power and tolerates Narayanhiti then that will, for the short term, work as an undeclared royal coup. Maoists will take care of NC and UML. Just right now, the King can't appoint BRB as the PM. This will cause too many eyebrows to raise. However, the king desparately is trying to have Maobadis in the power. I am not a fan of this damn CPN (M), Communist Party of Nepal (Murderers), but I want peace in the nation. NC and UML leaderships are the reflection of power hungry competitors, corrupts and opportunists. I am only talking about NC and UML because their leaderships talk as if they have got the "thekka" of Nepal. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-May-03 11:30 AM
did anyone see BRB's interview tonight? for the first time, BIjay Kumar asked some really good questions. talking about Girija's intrview, save your energy guys. In a day or two Makune will have his interview pubished. Then Rohit and Amik Serchan will follow. |
| tick | Posted
on 12-May-03 12:06 PM
IF jyu, Is there a transcript for the interview somewhere on the net? |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-May-03 12:23 PM
no, the interview was aired on TV.. maybe tomorrow's papers will have the transcript or excerpts of the interview. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 12-May-03 12:45 PM
Hahooguruji, Well, unless you assume you know everything and another person you are talking to doesn't know more than you, it is always safe to assume that the person you are talking to knows as much as you know:-) So, I know quite a few things about NC. As a regular reader of sajha, you should also know that I am not here supporting GRJ or GPK, I am here to support people's right. I don't have energy like yours and that of others to defend the king, and the cowards who appoint Sharad Chandra at a position tantamount to Raajya Mantri Shah but can't make it public. How can this king be transparent? For those of you, if you guys really think Gyanendra is Vishnu ko avatar, fine. Otherwise, why not you ask him to form a political party and duel in election with others? I am ready to bet this guy will not win a single seat in the whole nation.Talking about popularity of king! Girija may have a checkered past, but he is a thousand times better than any king we had in Nepal since Prithvi Narayan. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-May-03 12:59 PM
Biswo, Sharad Chandra Shah is an advisor, not a Rajya Mantri. Hew is just an advisor to the PM, that's it, nothing more. If you are so furious and go on labeling others cowards for not making public his appointment, then.. may I ask you, how many PMs in the past have made their advisors' names public? "For those of you, if you guys really think Gyanendra is Vishnu ko avatar, fine. " I don't believe in this, but I think Gyanendra Sarkar is a very good diplomat and knows and understands Nepal like no other leader. BTW: Do you think Girija is a Mahadev ko avatar? "Otherwise, why not you ask him to form a political party and duel in election with others? I am ready to bet this guy will not win a single seat in the whole nation.Talking about popularity of king! " What are you willing to put on stake? See, making these statements lowers your credibility. I know you wnat to show how democratic and UN-RIGHT winger you are by bashing the king, but, does it serve any purpose ? "Girija may have a checkered past, but he is a thousand times better than any king we had in Nepal since Prithvi Narayan. :" Interesting! You are entitled to your opinions. No comments on this one. have a good one. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 12-May-03 01:07 PM
"Girija may have a checkered past, but he is a thousand times better than any king we had in Nepal since Prithvi Narayan." Extremely subjective statement. I guess I could've easily ignored the statement such as the one posted above but I couldn't. What are your measurements, Biswoji, to establish "thousand times better"? By what standard(s) is GPK thousand times better than any King we had since PNS? My God! "So, I know quite a few things about NC. As a regular reader of sajha, you should also know that I am not here supporting GRJ or GPK, I am here to support people's right." As far as you are supporting people's right, I agree and stand with you (not that it may matter). But I wonder how can you, then, also say "I am not here supporting GRJ or GPK----Girija may have a checkered past, but he is a thousand times better than any king we had in Nepal since Prithvi Narayan." Are you again betting on GPK as "the" or at least "a" champion of democracy? "I am ready to bet this guy will not win a single seat in the whole nation." All kinds of people win election in Nepal. Nepal has more voters than citizens. You might lose your bet. So, be conservative in betting, Biswoji. Gyanendra shah is not a bisnu ko avatar to me. Whether he likes to form a party is upto him. Will I vote for him? that's upto me. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 12-May-03 01:09 PM
>Sharad Chandra Shah is an advisor, not a Rajya Mantri. IFji, Please read carefully before jumping to react. I haven't said he is Rajya Mantri, I have said his position is tantamount to Rajya Mantri position, and I know it very well that he is appointed cowardly, secretely, deceptively, at a position to "advise" an illegitimate prime minister. And, hey, kings and his chamchas have tried to legitimized king's rule by claiming he is "Vishnuko Avatar", but thankfully, Girija and his people have tried to legitimize their rule by going to public and asking for vote. There is no question of being Mahadevko Avatar. IFji, I understand you are very happy now that the shyaal, giddha etc of Panchayat are waiting in Mashaanghat for the requiem of democracy to arrive, so that they can bite the dead meat of it and get a revenge of their unceremonious ouster in 2046. Well, the nation and its democratic forces are again ready for the final showdown, I believe. |
| khimu | Posted
on 12-May-03 01:28 PM
i love reading you guys comments |
| Biswo | Posted
on 12-May-03 01:55 PM
Sparshaji, Let me ask you one question: Among the kings Pratap Singh Shah, Girwan Yuddha Bikram Shah, Rana Bahadur Shah, Rajendra Shah, Surendra Shah, Prithvi Bikram Shah, Tribhuvan Shah, Mahendra Shah, Birendra Shah, Dipendra Shah, and Gyanendra Shah, who king is better than Girija Koirala? Who had courage to fight against cruel Rana regime? Tribhuvan? Heck, this king had signed at the death order for four martyrs of 1997. He fought only too late.He didn't have courage. Even Shahs-and-their-myrmidions-written textbooks made excuses by saying that the kings were 'forced' to be indulged within palace.Forced to be indulged? I have never heard Girija personally pushing Sujata to leadership. There are implications only. But you know, the widely disliked Paras, was schemingly pushed to be prince by Gyanendra. Talking about 'loksammati anusar chalne Shah bamsako parampara'! If I remember correctly, you were also against Paras once when Dipendra was alive and he was widely despised. Are you still against Paras? Or do you think any person in the Sheshnaag Throne is a great superhuman who can do better for the nation? There is nothing subjective, even if it might appear to you that way. Kings courage was 0, and any positive number is more than thousand times bigger, if you want to be precise. Tell me which king had displayed moment of courage? Which king? When? Thankfully, world has provided ample examples that countries can live very well without kings,and that is the direction to go for us too. King Gyanendra knows this better, because he can always consult the father-in-law of his son Paras about living without throne despite once having claim to it. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 12-May-03 02:03 PM
Biswoji, I will respond, later. hai-- Right now, I am about to leave for the day (from work, of course). I may be able to post my response by tomorrow morning/afternoon. Have a great day/evening. |
| tick | Posted
on 12-May-03 02:14 PM
I disagree with Bishwa with due respect. Comparing Koiralas with the Kings?? You would rather see GPK as the supreme leader and see the the king replaced? There is no doubt that GPK is corrupt and immoral. You still support him? I have heard people say when they hear rideculous remarks "A malai ek chamcha pani le me tesma dubera marchu" sounds relevant. The value of democracy can only be preserved if the leaders are good and honest. If not we are giving validity to corruption and corrupt practices, and this is democracy? |
| tick | Posted
on 12-May-03 02:15 PM
You have never heard GPK pushing his daughter for leadership?? That makes you one of the insiders or next to kin?? |
| Horizon | Posted
on 12-May-03 02:55 PM
I think we have heard enough of why political leaders arent qualified among other things, moral grounds. Sparshji, IFji and Tickji, Other than the obvious, why should Monarchs be rewarded again ? I am very interested in knowing why the King deserves rather why political leaders dont. I think we have heard a lot of arguments not about the individual but the Institution of Monarchy. I feel that the same argument wont be valid since we arent discussing the Constitutional Monarchy as a system. Rather, we are discussing the individuals. The value of democracy can only be preserved if the leaders are good and honest. If not we are giving validity to corruption and corrupt practices, and this is democracy? Tickji, You are absolutely right. I hope you are being consistent and analyzing everyone with the same moral standard. As of today, mine is a swing vote. I havent been able to make up my mind but I do believe that in this day and age, people can be ruled ONLY with their mandate. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 12-May-03 03:33 PM
Tickji, Here is what makes your reply worthless: you dont' read anything. Where in the earth have I written I would rather see Girija as 'king' or something like that? These kind of silly arguments drive me nut, and a strong urge within me forces me not to dignify your other inane comments with a reply. -- A general argument supporing king, and forwarded by king Gyanendra himself is that peace is what people want, and that he has provided people with peace. He and his henchmen blame political parties for Maoist problem. Since this king, who once said that 11 royal family members died because of an accidental explosion of weapon, doesn't think that people can think and analyze his words, it is fine for him to babble prevarication day by day. But, when seemingly educated people of this forum repeat the same babble, then I have to say, wait a minue. I guess liars can be great king for people like Sparsha, IF, Hahooguruji and tick, I guess proven killer like Paras can be a great crown prince, to be entrusted with absolute power and sovereignty, to people like Sparshaji, IFji, Hahooguruji, and tickji, then yes, boys, we differ big time in our opinion about statecraft and the nation's future, and I am proud that I differ from you because I have no quandary about how the nation can be better than what it is now. And if Maoists' decision to go to jungle can be attributed to political parties, then the parliamentary parties' decision to go to street rightnow must be attributed to the king who is in power.But no, king and his henchmen don't think that way. They have this tortous logic to blame everything to democratic parties. |
| tick | Posted
on 12-May-03 03:35 PM
Horozon jyu, Belief comes from many different factors. Growing-up in Nepal, being involved in jana andolan, social-services, like most of us evaluated 12 years of democracy, 7 years of insurgency and actively discussing the issues that plagues Nepal has given me the belief that I have today. You are right we are not talking of the system rather person because at this point NC means Girija and maobadi means BRB. NC is a corrupted beurocratic institution how can I support that institution? I support the idea behind the party BUT the fundamental democratic idea has no validity with NC. Why monarch? Because there is absolutely not a single soul that I can trust in Nepal aside from monarch. All the leaders are corrupt and some of them are Indian agents. Remember India or any other foreign interest cannot "buy" the monarch. Why monarch? Because all leaders are self centered and corrupt. Once this generation of corrupt leaders are in place and people we are only allowing our own destruction by letting them destroy us. Why monarch? Support can be bought and is widely bought. I have seen elections that people vote for the candidate that feed them during election. Unless people are aware of the consequences and vote for the right people the democracy has little meaning. Why monarch? There is a leadership vacum in the country. There isn't a single leader that has a vision, compassion and the ability to run the country. We have seen that enough. This needs to stop. Monarch has shown the vision, the courage and the ability to step-up to do the right thing. Until people are educated and understand the true value of the ballot, democracy has little meaning. Do not get me wrong I am not advocating for panchayat or dictatorship in the country. The king is the only leader that can lead the country out of the current crisis. Unlike Birendra we have a monarch that is not afraid to take action. We have a monarch that has a vision of a peaceful Nepal. We have a monarch that has a vision of corruption free Nepal. We have a monarch that is willing to go extra mile for the restoration of democracy. I had always advocated for the above and I share the kings vision then why not support him? |
| Nepe | Posted
on 12-May-03 03:50 PM
The word that best describes GP Koirala' s politics and leadership since 2046 is, comical. The only remarkable thing about him is his spectacular survival in Congress and national politics. And the mystery of his sustenance is where lies the mystery of Nepal's politics- the failure of our "democracy". If you could understand why a meritless guy survived as a supreme leader of a party and the state for practically the whole time of our "democracy", you understand everything about Nepal's political problems. Let me assist you to start with. GP Koirala is the Nani Maiya Dahal of our our time. The only difference is that NM Dahal was the product of people's active reaction to the political reality of Panchayati Prajatantra, whereas GP Koirala (his sustenance) is the product of people's inactive reaction to the political reality of Sambaidhanik rajtantratmak Prajatantra. The political reality of this tantra is what I have preferred to call 'Semicracy'. Apart from a small school of ultra-enthusiastic liberals, every Rame and Shyame of the country knew the old power still holds the power, enough to neutralize any aspiration of a bold reform that challenges it's interests. And that is why no dreamer, no visionary, no revolutionary entered into Nepal's politics. (BBC ka Rabindra Mishra ji, this is the answer to your famous question, Pratyosh Onta haru le rajniti kina nagarne ?). GP Koirala and more or less his copies occupied the khaali maidan. Maoists are the flip side of this coin. GP Koirala, a constantly hungry, insecure and often whimsical man with no brain has lately started to surprise me by his remarks and rhetorics which could have been leader like, had they been consistent, meant and resolute. Nevertheless, I have a story from Panchtantra (?) for GPK. He may still have chance to 'Paratra sudharnu'. A clever but miser man who never did any dharma (charity) died and he was brought to the court of Dharmaraj. Dharmaraj checked his record and found a long list of paaps. And buried in that list was one dharma though. Turns out that man had mistakenly dropped a cup of yoghurt one day and a hungry crow had saved his life by eating it. So Dharmaraj, after doing some calculation, tells the man that he has earned with that dharma the kingdom of the swarga for 15 minutes and the rest of his eternal life in hell for his paap. He was asked which one he would like to spend first. The man chose the swarga ko rajya first and when he obtained it, he immediately offered it to Indra back. I don't need to explain what happened next. Since GPK seems to be acknowledging finally who the real Vishnu are, I do hope he gives his hand to give the kingdom to the real Visnhu of Nepal that he identified in his recent interviews. |
| tick | Posted
on 12-May-03 04:08 PM
Nepe jyu, Well said. bara barsha kukur ko puchar lai hdungro ma rekhe pani bangai huncha, mind you the life of a dog is twelve years! |
| Nepe | Posted
on 12-May-03 04:41 PM
Tick jyu, Well said ? Thank you. But does not seems to be well read by you ! Anyway, tyo kukur ko puchchhar comes handy to explain what I meant. Kukur ko puchchhar (the royal palace) did not get straight even after putting in a dhungro (sambidhan) for 12 years. It's time to get rid of the tail and free those from their illusion who were holding the imaginary chain of the dog. |
| tick | Posted
on 12-May-03 04:45 PM
Bishwa ji, I am not asking for your verification of my statement. My statement to you worthless, I respect your decision on the same note your statement is just like GPK it is "insane". Here is what you said "Among the kings Pratap Singh Shah, Girwan Yuddha Bikram Shah, Rana Bahadur Shah, Rajendra Shah, Surendra Shah, Prithvi Bikram Shah, Tribhuvan Shah, Mahendra Shah, Birendra Shah, Dipendra Shah, and Gyanendra Shah, who king is better than Girija Koirala?" In this statement you are comparing Girija with the Kings and this statement says lot more if you think about it.. I will make my statement short and brief for you as you do not value my opinion, which is ok with me. Even a rickshaw puller in jumla will not trust GPK and NC (not there are any rickshaw pullers in Jumla, the probability of finding might be nil). In this example I have gone to the extreme to say that not any one with a mind will believe your statement. You are free to call names, as this is a free board to others and myself. Your insight to NC makes me think that you are closely related/affiliated to the most corrupted neta of our times, so here it goes. What does that make you? Sir? Iti. |
| tick | Posted
on 12-May-03 04:55 PM
Nepe jyu, I have read your statement carefully. Your argument goes either way.. Royal palace was out of the picture for 12 years. The most corrupted netas were in power for the last twelve years not Birendra, no way. It is time for all parties to end the conflict. The conflict will promote Nepal from one of the poorest nation to be the poorest nation of the world. |
| HahooGuru | Posted
on 12-May-03 05:03 PM
Biswo ji: I don't have energy like yours and that of others to defend the king Kya ho, Texas ma basdai ma ta Bush-ism lagai dine. "If you are not with us, you are with enemies". Where did I defend King Gyanendra. Maf garnu hola mitra. I am neither with your NC/UML sathgath nor with King G. , I am a plain Citizen of Nepal. I will offend all corrupts and the supporters of corrupts. Jai Nepal. HG |
| tick | Posted
on 12-May-03 05:26 PM
HG jyu, Ma pani tapai jastai ho. Tara aile ma ali raja pati dhalkeko chu. I believe he is the only person with leadership and vision that can take the country out of this mess. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-May-03 05:37 PM
Please read carefully before jumping to react. I haven't said he is Rajya Mantri, I have said his position is tantamount to Rajya Mantri position, and I know it very well that he is appointed cowardly, secretely, deceptively, at a position to "advise" an illegitimate prime minister. Biswo, In the same tone I can say you did NOR READ my lines carefully. He is just an advisor, a post that's comparable that with a rajyamantri BUT he is an ADVISOR. I asked you which Congresi PMs ever made their advisors public? Tell me the names of all the Girija's official and Unofficial advisors. It is not a PUBLIC post, so you don't need to publish the names PUBLICLY. So, there's nothing coward or brave here. IFji, I understand you are very happy now that the shyaal, giddha etc of Panchayat are waiting in Mashaanghat for the requiem of democracy to arrive, so that they can bite the dead meat of it and get a revenge of their unceremonious ouster in 2046. Well, the nation and its democratic forces are again ready for the final showdown, I believe. With these broad and bold assumptions, you kill the discussion. PERIOD. Namaste. Being Pro-Monarchy does not necessarily mean being anti-democracy. |
| tick | Posted
on 12-May-03 05:47 PM
IF jyu, Some are just bullies.. |
| HahooGuru | Posted
on 12-May-03 06:13 PM
Biswo ji, I find (my observation) one great thing missing in you. That is you get angry on behalf of others. You get angry on others who don't agree with you. You use harsh words when you have disagreements. We can talk in hospitable manner even if we disagree. But, the way you used Tick, IF and My name in your posting clearly shows your weakness. That weakness is, you can be flamed very easily, and you have to deal with your anger very carefully. I just neglect you whenever required, because I know you for last 2 years or so, and I also remember your strong comments against Kanak Dixit and .... So, be cool if posters don't accuse you personally, I mean when they don't talk on your contents, but, in your name or personal stuffs. Lets not forget Reject ideas, not persons. You read your previous postings, you are rejecting ideas and persons both bundled in pack, and that is your greatest weakness. If you continue with your bundling mechanism, probably you will be posting alone, and no one will respond to your posting. Well, these are my observations on you, and you might insist that you are different from what I have observed, K Garne, sabko herne ankha farak farak huncha. Char Barna Chhatish Jaat ko fulbari ho yo world. Let me cite a story told to me by a friend of mine, who was not less agressive then you in our university days. I asked him why are you so cool compared to those agressive days. He was told following story by his friend and he realized the facts. Once there was debate between two great Rishi-muni. King faciliated the talk, the king asked them to continue debate unless one of them confess that he lost the debate. Well, it went for few days. Then, suddenly the wife of a Rishi-muni stand up and told her husband to quit the debate immediately, there is no worth in continuing the debate anymore. Well, everyone got surprised. King asked her why she knows that her husband is losing the debate. She replied, because her husband has started usring loud voice and getting angry. she further added that since he is now losing his contents and have less points to debate, so trying to win the debate by getting angry and loud voice. After hearing this story, I also realize that it really happens when you lack the contents and feel insecured, then, start loud voice and temper to win the debate. I am 100% sure that you will get angry to read this posting: you pride will not let you stop blasting me. I will enjoy it. Jai Biswo. HG |
| HahooGuru | Posted
on 12-May-03 06:24 PM
Biswo ji, Read NePe ji, he does not angry. He can debate continously for months without getting angry and using loud voice, but, with smiling face. That smiling face kills his strong opponents of his Republican agenda too. He is real polished gentleman, I have ever met so cool and deadly (deadly in sense, kills you with a smiles: = hipnotize. He is great hunter of civilized society who uses words in smile, not bullets to kill his enemies). I wish I was his student. HG |
| Paschim | Posted
on 12-May-03 06:32 PM
**Sparsha wrote: Then it probably will never go down in History, Paschim. "memorable" stays does not go down. No?** Sparsha, I used the phrase "go down" to mean 'accepted or understood'. As in, "how do you think Mr. Tara's offer to take Ms. Sitara out to lunch in Adams Morgan will go down with her? :) On the rest, thanks for your kind words, and let's just agree to disagree. Banki postings fursat ma padhchhu. Hope it won't be "deja vu all over again". |
| Horizon | Posted
on 12-May-03 06:38 PM
Tickji, Sounds like you are seeking for alternate and effective governance. Whats more likely, you will find that among few individuals or millions ? |
| sparsha | Posted
on 12-May-03 06:49 PM
I guess liars can be great king for people like Sparsha, IF, Hahooguruji and tick, I guess proven killer like Paras can be a great crown prince, to be entrusted with absolute power and sovereignty, to people like Sparshaji, IFji, Hahooguruji, and tickji, then yes, boys, we differ big time in our opinion about statecraft and the nation's future, and I am proud that I differ from you because I have no quandary about how the nation can be better than what it is now. Biswoji, nonesense stuff such as quoted above makes me wonder why do I even respect you? I dont care whether you are proud to differ from me or not. Thats your call to make. But this is not the point. The point is your sporadic and disarrayed attack to your opponents and the nonsense whatever reasons you put on them to back your flawed conclusion. You lambaste others for not reading what you wrote well and yourself indulge in the same practice and expect to be glorified. Sorry sir, that is not going to happen. At least, not from me. Hell NO. What in the world did you base your conclusion on to say people like Sparsha argue Liars can be great King ? I dont know, honestly, who has not lied. You may have lied on several occasions for one reason or another, but it does not mean, to me, that every time you say something we all ought to shout liar liar and make your argument go down the drain because you lied at times. Things should be taken independently. For telling lies, you are a liar. For saving life, you are a lifesaver. For making peace, you are a peacemaker and so on. May be I should write the following to match your comment on me: your GPK who is thousand times better, for you, than any king we ever had since PNS is satya Harischandra and you are probably are proud of him. Good luck . I have never said that I am a defender of Gyanendra Shah. I dont defend him. In fact, I have repeatedly said and written (can be seen in Sajha) that system or institution of monacrchy needs serious overhaul to stay with respect. I have condemned -and still do - the nonsense acts of CP Paras. I was sad that he was not prosecuted for the crimes he committed when he was a sahajyada. He should be held accountable for the proven crimes against the people and the state, even if he is the CP. However, I see BRB (as a responsible representative of Nepali Maobad) more of a criminal than Paras. Paras may have killed few (less than a dozen?), but BRB has killed thousands. Of course every life is precious but look at the motive and the trend. How about attacking BRB and other butchers? Why cant you speak against him and demand he be prosecuted? What the hell is stopping you in attacking BRB and his gangs with the same zest you attack the king? You talk about fairness? Give me a break. [Nepe jis argument is more balanced than yours]. You labeled me as someone who I am not. You didnt have to read my mind. You just could have read what I have been writing. Just because I condemn the existing corrupt leadership of political parties, you show me your intelligence by calling me anta santa? What are the damn rationales you put together to say, guess liars can be great king for people like Sparsha, IF, Hahooguruji and tick, I guess proven killer like Paras can be a great crown prince, to be entrusted with absolute power and sovereignty, to people like Sparshaji, IFji, Hahooguruji, and tickji.. . Where in the damn world did I say proven killer like Paras can be a great crown prince, to be entrusted with absolute power and sovereignty.. Afno man ma je aayo tyahi mero barema lekhera ajha malai nai doshi banauna khojne? This just sickens me. Wahiyat comment. Complete nonsense. |
| Bhinaju | Posted
on 12-May-03 06:59 PM
"Comparing Girija, the most immoral person in Nepal and The best KHALANAYAK in Nepali politics with Saha bamsha & Monarch." Bishwo jastai Murkha bhawanale grasta Nepaliharu nai Maobadi samasyaka jimmebar hun. Yiniharuko jyan liya pani paap chhaina. |
| tick | Posted
on 12-May-03 07:41 PM
Horizon jyu, You are right, but, please look at the uneducated nepali mass who have no understanding of democracy and selecting the right leader. If you are a business owner and are looking to hire a manager, would you advertise the position among illiterate million or literate few? |
| Horizon | Posted
on 12-May-03 08:01 PM
Still I would advertise in a way that would give me the best chances in hiring from among the best. The more options I have, better the likelihood. |
| tick | Posted
on 12-May-03 09:39 PM
I feel the same way but the selection process is different for me. Peace. :-) |
| Nepe | Posted
on 12-May-03 10:44 PM
Balla I finished reading all the postings. Now I see, some of our posters ego have crept in arguments. You are all experienced posters. You know it is all natural and you can handle it just fine. I dont have to say anything. But I have to say this- 1. Thank you HahooGuruDev for your kind words to me. Mero nepto naak fulera jhan nepto bhayo ni GuruDev ! But I want to complain, aba ma apthyaro ma pari hale ni. Kahile kaahi temper control nabhayeko belaa ma Guru ko yo bachan is going to hit me like a bullet !Parena phasaad ! And my gratitude to Sparsha ji too. 2. Biswo jis words seem to have offended some posters. If you ignore that part and look at the essence of his arguments, you will agree his is a voice of a citizen genuinely concerned about the well-being of Nepali people. Knowing him online for a long time, I have a very high opinion about him despite our disagreement on numerous issues. I can not say the same about many other posters. Yes, a rotten GPK with intact democracy is a million times better than an intact GBBS with no democracy. Even if the other way round is correct, especially IS and Tick jyu, its no use.This is 21st century and you like or not, the whole world has been brain washed to accept democracy as the only acceptable system. Gyane ra hajur haru ko kehi chalne wala chhaina, even if you are right, even you have certain number of supporters, even if the Shahi sena is ready to become Ka-shahi sena. 3. About monarchy and democracy stuff, there has been so much discussion in the past, I think I will not be bluffing if I say Sajha archive is in almost an enclycopediac scale for information and arguments on these issues, if you can surf. It will be particularly useful for those who seem to be beginners (sorry if that offends some posters !). I can not retrieve one at this time, but I would like some posters to find discussion like the solution to the problem of democracy is more democracy, not autocracy, for example. 4. Its good to see finally political parties have dared to launch a jana-aandolan. I think it has not become jana(ta ko)-andolan yet. The day people on the street will overtake leaders, like in the lastjana-andolan, and chant slogans like, Gyane chor, satta chhod, then it will truly become a jana-andolan. Keep watching, the day is not far. Leaders have not been able to say, but peoples got to do what peoples got to do. |
| prawin | Posted
on 12-May-03 10:58 PM
Disclaimer [of some sorts]: i am an acquaintence of Mr Carlo Rossi. but... most people here seem painfully oblivious of the forces that shape contemporary history. in most instnaces, that wilfull abandonment of the recogniton of such forces speaks against what people have to say, in general. we must understand, thta as give n by the so called "Hindu" scriptures, there was a certain model that the kings strived for, the Rajasi way of conducting life, and that, in our contemporary understanding, all people before us were inadequate in some way. nothing is sdder than people saying that the ancestors "understood" or "knew" more than us. those two words are deceitful teh moment we employ them. therefore-- a descendant of a defeted Rajput, forced to envision as large an empire as would evoke Bikram Aditya [the 'Shahbansa,' descendants of Micha Khan, were Chandrabanshi, but Prithivi Narayan went to Kashi and adopted the Surya Banshi stuff{hiduism allows the knowledgeable to alter the entire concept of ancestry, provoding the platform for subjugation of those who don't}, that allowed Girvan Yuddha and on to use "Bikram" in their name; evokinf at once Ram and Bikramaditya], Prithivi Narayan had no choic but to call Nepal all sorts of names that would ensure its longeivity. and that has played into contemporay Nepali Politics. what one would readily see, is that Corruption is almost a welcome guest into a system like Nepal. i would easily play the devil's advocate and say that corruption by the Noveau Riche is simply an historical agent [thus saying that every single person who has had the opportunity to bleed Nepal dry within the last 12 years is in some manner simply a pawn of History], while the Aristocracy is almost always an aggressor, assulting the system to rob it. a poor country, where some form of corruption has been fostered for almost 200 years, should take notice WHEN CORRUPYION IS ENTIRELY ABSENT. that individuals will be induced to imagine that corruption is as easy way out of the syetem, in certain ways, is NAIVE, and ACCEPTABLE. if people starve for three days before hijacking a plane, if people bury themselves in a paddy field for a week before beheading a few people for an ideology, it is MORE ACCEPTABLE than people sitting behind the security of an armed guard, snorting cocaine, and decidig how the tax system should be affected to make more profit for the cigarette company [you know who i am talking about]. You Know Who All I Am Talking About. Carlo Rosssi beckons. |
| prawin | Posted
on 12-May-03 11:08 PM
ah... who amog those discussing all this will shape the future of the Nepali people? NONE. GIRIJA will [and therefore he is praiseworthy] MAKUNE will [and he is praiseworthy] and Gyanendra will [as he becomes worthy of a tiltle that fell upon him twice, accidentally] continue to shape the reality, while those who are reactionary will only say self-indulgant shit. it is ridiculous when people say they HATE politicians [there is no other way of affecting contemporary history than by affecting how politicians react and thionk], and how they are craving to stay out of politics and yet crave for a specific future [that is SO HYPOCRITICAL]. i should stick to writing fiction, because otherwise i am too full of rage. and Carlo Rossi is a good friend. those who HATE poltliticians are immature TWITS, who don't understand thta politicians [however despeccable they show themselves to be] exist for our education. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-May-03 11:14 PM
Yes, a rotten GPK with intact democracy is a million times better than an intact GBBS with no democracy. Even if the other way round is correct, especially IS and Tick jyu, its no use.This is 21st century and you like or not, the whole world has been brain washed to accept democracy as the only acceptable system. Gyane ra hajur haru ko kehi chalne wala chhaina, even if you are right, even you have certain number of supporters, even if the Shahi sena is ready to become Ka-shahi sena. Nepe, Not at all. Democracr is the best system, no questions regarding that. But, in Nepal's context, forget democracy. It is 21st century, Nepe. Thanks for reminding us and you know what, in the 21st century, the definition of democracy has chagned. Democracy is being debated. The whole system is being questioned. The problem with you (General YOU) seem to believe that democracy and liberty go together and that's the biggest flaw (now, don't get offended) in your argument. Democracy does not necessarily lead to libertyy and those two are totally different concepts says Fareed Zakaria. Also, democracies didn't work in many nations. Nepal is one of those failed democractic nations but hey we are not a failed nation because there is still someone who is ready and willing to take the responsibilty for what goes on in the nation. That's why, I respect the King and I believe that the institution of monarchy is essential for Nepal's survival for at least 200 years. And as Sparsha already pointed out, why can't you people who are so against the King for reasons only known to you, can't utter a single word against the Maoists? Nepe, the world has been brainwashed to believe in other systems too. Also, Your coming to defense of Biswo is understandable and unlike you, we don't seem to have the ability to grasp the hidden or obvious messages mingled in those rather offending comments. These days, you are doing a good job of presenting your ideas in an unoffending and acceptable manner. There's a chinese saying, when you serve food, make it appealing to stomach so focus on decoration. If the food is served in a crude manner (phyatta plate ma falera), then no matter how delicious the food is, it looses its charm and will loose its "appeal" |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-May-03 11:17 PM
it looses its charm and will loose its "appeal" = looses its appeal |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-May-03 11:26 PM
and Nepe, does your definition of democracy gives you the RIGHTS to call names and make broad assumptions and tell you that whoever does not agree with you is a total idiot, oppurtunist, ultra rightist and what not? As far as this thread is concerned, I seem to sense that. People make big statements, then when they find that they are getting countered by evidence, they simply come back and say "you are an idiot becaus eyou don't agree with me. You are undemocratic so I am better than you". Come on, give me a break. Isn't making these sorts of arguments similar to what the Maoists are doing? If you are with us you are a revolutionary, if you are not with us then you are a class enemy, counter revolutionary, reactionary and what not? Again to quote Ashu, "These are the democrats who make the Maoists proud". Namaste |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 12-May-03 11:57 PM
Let me ask you one question: Among the kings Pratap Singh Shah, Girwan Yuddha Bikram Shah, Rana Bahadur Shah, Rajendra Shah, Surendra Shah, Prithvi Bikram Shah, Tribhuvan Shah, Mahendra Shah, Birendra Shah, Dipendra Shah, and Gyanendra Shah, who king is better than Girija Koirala? Although the question is directed towards Sparsha, let me answer this. Not that I doubt in Sparsha's ability to answer it himself: talking about the contributions of all the Kings: 1 Pratap Singh compiled a book on Tantra called "brihat-purascharyarnab". He wrtote other books too, expecially on Tantra and Shakti cult. More of an academician than a fighter that's why Bahadur Shah went to fight and he spent time reading and wriuting, thus adding to the research on Tantra. Rana Bahadur Shah: Rana Bahdur Shah was a reformist. He tried to follow the Jagganath temple model in which there is no jaat-paat by doing a maha puja/yagna at the Tundikhel. His plan was to make everyone eat together and abolish the jaat pratha all together. That's why he was assainated. Girvan Yuddha: He died young. Rajendra Bikram Shah: Mobilized people for a revolution/andolan to oust Jung Bahadur. Was arrested and kept in hanuman Dhoka prision. Surendra Bikram Shah: Went along with Jung Bahadur's polciies and that somehow helped in creating stability in Nepal. Prithvi Bir Bikram: Tried to oust the Ranas many times, but failed. Died an unnatural death often believed to be an assisination/poisioning. Tribhuvan Bir Bikram Shah: Was forced to witness the "killings" in 97 saal however, he tried his best to prevent those. "Be moderate" was he said to Juddha Shumher. After that, he went to India and was finally able to free nepal from the Rana rule. Mahendra Bikram Shah: One of the most intelligent Shah Kings of Nepal. His contributions include introducing Nepal to the world and establishing Nepali missions in various nations. Purva Paschim rajmarga, arniko highway and mnany orther development programs. He is credited for bringing reforms in nepal's administrative sector and making Nepal known to the world. Birendra Sarkar: Liberal. Gave people what they wanted in 2036. In 2046, didn't succumb to the Indian pressure as evident by his rejection of SK Singh's proposal. Deependra Sarkar: Although, he couldn't contribute anything as a King, he did contribute to nepal's sports sector as a crown prince. The success of the SAF game, opening up of a new indoor stadium and regular hosting of the national games are his contributions. Gyanendra Sarkar: Became a King at a difficult time. Ousted Deuba to preserve the constitution of Nepal 2047. Then slowly gained popularity with his nationalist and democratic decisions. People at this point of time are more supportive of the King because he made the peace call to the Maoists on Push 21. The country is now experiencing peace and stability. The King's anotehr major contribution : his calculated moves haved exposed the reality of the democratic leaders of nepal. Also, the King has been able to draw the internationa; community's attention towards Nepal's problems. Its not that he jusrt lives in the Royal Palace, he works too and works harder than the democratic leaders. Namaste |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 13-May-03 12:06 AM
Now, our Mahan Neta Girija's contributions to nepal: 1. Hijacked plane. Later sent one of those hijackers as an ambassador to India and later elavated him to the post of Foreign Minmister of Nepal. 2. Lauda Kanda, Dhamija Kanda, tanakpur tension. 3. Dissolved the house twice. (and is now asking to reinstate the house) 4. chanegs his rghetoric from time to time: in 2047 Baisakh interview to Bijaya Kumar he said" sabhya manche communist hundaina ra communist manche savya hundaina". Later, he alligned with those to oust his own party's PM. 5. Corrupted the Nepali civil service/administration. 6. Put price tags on the important posts including that of an ambassador. 7. Nepotism, nepotism and more nepotism. 8. corruption, corruption and more corruption. 9. Is pushing the nation towards instabillity. Biswo, the chines experience of Cultural Revolution tells us one thing: when the revolution is called from the above, then it goes out of control. people go on killing and vanadlizing spree. Now, Girija is a fool to realize this, he will undoubtedly set to push nepal 200 years back in terms of development. 10. He is a comdeian. talks about designs all the time. He should have been an interior designer instead or a stand up comedian. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 13-May-03 12:46 AM
IFji, I thought you wouldn't want to argue with me, because you wrote "With these broad and bold assumptions, you kill the discussion. PERIOD.", but I guess your habit to contradict yourself emerged here, or may be you still like me as laopengyou:-), you were kind enough to reply me. I read your list of contribution of those silly kings, and laughed. This is something , I guess, taken out of social science textbook, and I thank you for being an agency to propagate the same thing that Shahs tried to propagate since years. Sparshaji, Let's face it: I didn't force you to 'respect' me. Our mutual recognition is solely based on sajha.com postings. It seems you respected me because you liked my arguments before. Now you don't like it, and I don't mind if you wonder about your past respect to me.Please revise it as you wish, because I can't do anything regarding this. My respect to anyone doesn't increase just because I agree more with him. This is something I always try to maintain.This applies to you also.As a friend, I respect you. If you are passionate about what you think, that doesn't mean you are worthy of less respect. If you think I wrote 'anta santa', whatever the heck that means, fine. Sajha.com's Kurakani is a proof that you have defended Gyanendra time and again, and I was only pointing to that fact. It seems you are livid that I wrote you prefer Gyanendra and Paras. Please write down clearly if you don't prefer them ruling Nepal. There is no need to compare me with Nepeji either. I know I can't be compared with Nepeji.I know I can't be compared with a lot of people, and Ashu, Paschim, Arnico, Sparsha are among them. But I know that what I write has truth, that often scares the hell out of those who are on the wrong side of history. In the conflict that concerns people, I always prefer better side, or at least less evil side. In the past, when there was a controversy about king and Maoists, I said let's support king because the king is less evil. Now with new facts unearthed day by day, king ruling the nation like fiefdom, I know that king is more evil than the parliamentarian parties. That is what I believe.That's where my belief stems from. Nepal, let me repeat, is going to be better without any Shah king from Narayanhiti pretending to save Nepal. Hahooguruji, Thanks for the venomous lecture. I respect you, and as a guruji , you can lecture me. Fine and dandy. It amazed me that you didn't even wait for my reply, and fired another lengthy lecture and invoked the history with Mr Dixit and compared me with Nepeji who is obviously a better poster here. Whether it proved my insecurity or your insecurity, you decide. Guruji, I wrote that may be Gyanendra is a great king for people like you. Now let's say you disagree with this. Then who do you prefer to be ruler of Nepal? A democratic system or this man above Sheshnaag throne and,supposedly rightnow, constitution? Rather than being angry with me, and going to analyze my 'psychology', it would be better if we all stick to the subject. Let's remember Guruji, that I have never ventured to label you with any damning adjective or any adventure. I have never told you are angry, or dwarf, or tall, or anything because you disagreed with me, and I hope you will stick to the subject rather than launching a personal attack. Jaya Hahooguru. A humble member of Hahooguru fan club. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 13-May-03 01:13 AM
Biswo,m I am not arguing with you. Read the above posts clearly, its addressed to others, not you. |
| HahooGuru | Posted
on 13-May-03 01:49 AM
Biswo ji: Then who do you prefer to be ruler of Nepal? A democratic system ... Dear Biswo ji, Anyone, not only me will get furious on the way you add his/her name in that particular paragraph, and become an example / illustration in a wrong way. I never said Democratic is ultimate system, but, I always said its the only best system we can have in this earth. In democratic system, the elected leaders should be more accountable compared to a system that is untouchable and that is not elected by peoples.The way the indulged in corruption was surely my concern and that frustrated me. As I wrote in my previous posting that GRJ to whom I spend my most valuable 2 months chanting GRJ jindabad, now is the most corrupt person in NC, GPK elevated him to Joint Secretary. Its not only GRJ, there are many in NC they swellen up in last 12 years. The corruption has gone up the sky. Its not only NC, but, UML also did not lag behind in corruption. In their 9month's government, they even overtook NC's first 5years' corruption record. So, what they should do? Girija in addition to asking King G. to be transparent, should have supported JIPC(?) and openly asked them to investigate and jail those who were in corruption. Do you know or not, in Kathmandu many peoples know. CIAA was about to raid Girija and his daughter's home, and Girija got some info. Next day he suddenly spoke "grand design" stuffs to avoid CIAA raid his home, because after "grand design" stuff, if CIAA jails him or his daughter he could get public sympathy, and he could blame that "grand design" theory that he spoke was the reason for jailing him. I will personally not forgive them, either they publicly do "atama alochana" or they are punished for the crimes they have committed. They should also pledge that it will not repeat and it should not just by mouth, but, by action. My consciousness does not support any corrupt leaders. This should be clear. Army killed a few Rame Shyame in Rolpa does not allow BRB to Mrs. Nudup Shrestha, and I did not like BRB's clarification. Because the sufferrers in both places are publics. Similarly, I am not going to support the parties whose actions will victimize the public. The 12years, Political parties victimized public. We need a new sets, unfortunately, "kohi bhi dekhai najdik nahi dekhai raha he". Thank you for clarifications. I regret very much if my writing hurt you. Probably, I also went a bit far. Lets avoid personal attack. Biswo ji, my 3 cheers to you again. HG |
| allare | Posted
on 13-May-03 02:23 AM
Hi all, Could not stop myself to drop something after reading some posts. Guys, Who is Girija ? Why all the arguments talking about his interview? I am also doing same. What to do, as you, this allare is also nepali are enjoy such stuffs, who talks more about person than his idea. More or less, all of us know that 90% percent of leaders in Nepal are corrupt and not national leader by any mean. Forget about GPK and MAKUNE, most of theml are same if they comes to power. Same goes to GBBS also. The greatest flaw in him is that he is not transparent and do not mind to fight in public with political leader. We have not seen real GBBS yet, its just around 2 years now since he has taken thrown, and we can not evaluate him based on his past for his present work. His past has less value while comparing him with his present status and responsibility in present situation as KING. I am just surprised that, hardly any one of here are supporter of Maoist. Why so guys? is that because, most of sajha basi enjoys life in US? and almost forgot the life of Nepal? allare will continue later........ |
| tick | Posted
on 13-May-03 03:15 AM
I am impressed with the credentials of the sajha posters. Please keep it coming. We will have a better discussion if we refrain from calling each other names. If that is too much to ask, I have no desire to participate in this forum be it for self-indulgement, love for the nation or desire for peace? I am a concerned citizen with strong beliefs and I do not intend to indulge myself in politics if that makes myself hypocritical, so be it. I hate politicians especially GPK if that makes me twits so be it. There are many who feel the same way as I do and if you do not want to accept it, no one is forcing you either. Why did I decide to speak-up now and I wasnt saying anything before in many of the threads that have similar discussion in the past, it is a personal decision rightfully mine not to disclose. Let me reiterate 1.I am not against democracy, assumption of such is stupidity. 2.I am against all forms of corruption and corrupted leaders, nothing will change that. 3.I am against all forms of aggression including intellectual aggression in sajha The fact remains that there have been unprecedented corruption in the last twelve years and more than seven thousand families lost a loved ones. If these reasons alone are not good enough reasons for you to say STOP this nonsense, then there is no reason for this discussion. Self-indulgenence can be achieved over a mug of beer. I am more interested to hear the alternate methods or ways that will make Nepal better. If you believe that NC, UML are the only ones that can rule the nation then there is no point for this discussion, not for me. |
| kewl | Posted
on 13-May-03 06:32 AM
Very interesting indeed!! Whatever be the case, finally all these "chor" will come back to power and king have to give up. Ok..wait I'm not NC, UML andho bhakta like some people here (let me not take his name but he will understand) or Rajbhakta. I am a Nepali not in Nepal (thank god!!) and wish never have to go back too. If you read Kantipur, it is constantly writing against King now. It is trying to portray Girija as a great savior. Why because Kantipur needs these corrupt leaders back in power too. They got the approval for television station after bribing communication minister. Who cares about national interests? Personal or business interests come first and Kantipur is doing that in the best way it can. So called "Budhijibi" (virus of Nepal) are against King..why..? Personal interests comes first.. They have their sons and daughter waiting to go to India to study..and Girija Babu and Govinda Raj Babu have such a great link with Indian embassy. They just have to give one call to embassy and our "budhijibi" sons and daughter will be selected in AIMS in India. I think these "Budhijibi" are more corrupt than political leaders. In fact political leaders are made corrupt by these virus called "Budhijibi". Other wise just think about this, how can Girija (SLC failed? hawaldar)/Makune simple khardar of Bank can find loopholes in our system for commissions and corruptions.... When so many personal interests are in stake, who will care about National interests. who cares what Nepali janta thinks. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 13-May-03 07:12 AM
"I didn't force you to 'respect' me. Our mutual recognition is solely based on sajha.com postings. It seems you respected me because you liked my arguments before. Now you don't like it, and I don't mind if you wonder about your past respect to me. Please revise it as you wish, because I can't do anything regarding this." Biswo ji, this much I know that you didn't force me to respect you. You could never have. I don't respect any one out of force. "Our mutual recognition is solely based on sajha.com postings". True. What is also true is I respected you because I was impressed with your arguments BUT NOT always liked all of them. " Please revise it as you wish, because I can't do anything regarding this." I will do so at my choosing and you're right you can't do anything regarding this. If you read my posting carefully (the immediate one), I was only focusing on one part where you tried to decorate me with something I detest. I will continue to respect your arguments as long as they are reasonable to me regardless whether I agree with them or not. But I will not tolerate nonsense accusation toward me. "My respect to anyone doesn't increase just because I agree more with him." You got this right. As I have mentioned above my respect was/is solely based on the merit of the argument you [or someone else] put/s forward not on the extent of the agreement. "This is something I always try to maintain. This applies to you also. As a friend, I respect you. If you are passionate about what you think, that doesn't mean you are worthy of less respect. " Here, I completely agree with you. But still you shouldn't draw a flawed conclusion on me and defend it at my cost. If you think I wrote 'anta santa', whatever the heck that means, fine. "Anta santa" means je payo tyahi-wahiyat. Sajha.com's Kurakani is a proof that you have defended Gyanendra time and again, and I was only pointing to that fact. "Show me where I have defended Gyanendra Shah." Do you know more about me than I do? Yes, I have said if Gyanendra can bring peace to the nation,then he should be given a chance. If GPK/other so called leaders had brought Maoists to the table and was/were working for peace, I would have supported him/them as well for that part. I have been saying I will support anyone who wants to put the nation and us-Nepali-first. Now, if this makes me Gyanendra defender in your definition, then I say your definition sucks. It seems you are livid that I wrote you prefer Gyanendra and Paras. No, you didn't just write I prefer Gyanendra and Paras. This is what you wrote, " I guess liars can be great king for people like Sparsha, IF, Hahooguruji and tick, I guess proven killer like Paras can be a great crown prince, to be entrusted with absolute power and sovereignty, to people like Sparshaji, IFji, Hahooguruji, and tickji..". And what you wrote is a nonsense accusation. "Prefer" miserably fails to defend what you wrote aiming at me and others. "There is no need to compare me with Nepeji either. " I was not comparing you with Nepeji. I was only saying whose posting I found more balanced. I was only talking about the content not the person. Did you not get that? Look Biswo ji, you can believe in whatever you want. Whether you agree with me or not is your business. But please don't call me something I am not and don't try to force some nonsense accusation at me and try to defend that nonsense at my cost. We can disagree with better terms. I will continue to read your postings with interest. Let's make this place-sajha.com-a healthy place for discussion. Let me repeat - my respect to fellow posters is solely based on the merit of the argument they put forward not on the extent of the agreement. |
| M.P. | Posted
on 13-May-03 11:10 AM
Seems like we need a Code of Conduct for this discussion as well. :) Can we have someone with a Terai-sounding last name (Mandal or something) to lead the formation of the CoC, so that we can give the whole country an impression that we care about janajatis (although we don't!)? :) ---------- Two interesting observations: 1) Despite hurling all sorts of accusations--most of them uncertified by any evidence--at each other, posters here continue to use a "ji" while addressing the "opponent." It's kind of funny. It's like being a Hindu and reading Bhagwatgita while eating a hamburger. But seems like that "ji" is what takes people toward "agreeing to disagree" rather than stopping to communicate altogether, so it is all good. 2) Digression coefficient must be around 0.9 (and my this post adds to that). Let's not forget that this thread is about Girija Prasad Koirala's interview, not about Biswo, Sparsha, HahooGuru, IF, Tick or Prawin. Before we move ahead, in order to avoid confusion, it would be great if everyone made his/her stance clear at the beginning of the posting. This would save a lot of time, webspace, electricity, and energy! |
| Biswo | Posted
on 13-May-03 03:04 PM
>I regret very much if my writing hurt you. Probably, I also went a bit far. >Lets avoid personal attack. Biswo ji, my 3 cheers to you again. Guruji, thanks for your regret. I wasn't hurt. But I didn't expect you to bring up old issues unnecessarily. People have attacked me a lot of times with worse words, and I DO have experiences:-) I haven't engaged in personal attack, and won't attack anyone in future. Like you, I don't care about Girija. But I care about the hijacking of democracy,and the hijackers who will not give it back easily, and that is why I think it is time for all of us to seriously think where the nation is moving towards.We don't want our kids to die again for democracy like they did in 2046. --- OK, sparshaji, in all fairness, you haven't said you prefer Gyanendra/Paras as a great royal pedigree in this thread.[Because of qualifier stress, I am not going back to search sajha.com rightnow, but I am sure we vividly remember how we disagreed about democracy.] But my statement was about implication and correlation: if you and I are not going to agree with a call to rein in Gyanendra, Paras, Sharad Chandra Shah etc rightnow, we better give the nation to their lap, and see ourselves as their fief in the future.In Nepal, rightnow, there is a conflict between two forces: one those who consider democratic system an important system for statecraft, another one who consider they can rule Nepal because of their pedigree. In this conflict, you have not been neutral, because you have time and again implied that you are not for what Girija and Madhav stands for. I remember that you once considered Gyanendra's appropriation of budget for royal palace a corrupt act. I remember Paras's act also enraged you in the past. I am not clear whether you approve Sharad Chandra Shah, Prabal Shamsher Rana etc representing us and ruling us these days. The RNA, directly under king since fifty years, is a place where you can't be in top without having some certain sirname and connection. I would like to know if you think these people will make Nepal better place. I would like to know if these people will make our nation safer, fair and more developed. If your answer is no, then I would like to know how you think we can get rid of these vermins. Now whether you like it or not, Nepal's one of best economic growth rates was achieved under Girija's first rule. CPN(UML) was very popular during its 9 month rule. You can't blame political parties for sending Maoists to jungle, they went there themselves, and started doing all sorts of things. Palace rarely cooperated, people like Gyanendra were there with heavy heart. CIAA was made the most powerful during multiparty democracy. How can that system's revival be bad for us? How can the demand that we have parliament or those who got people's vote in government be bad? No one has stopped king Gyanendra and his people to file a case against Girija and Madhav if they are corrupt. But no, Gyanendra and his people are not interested in getting rid of corruption: they are the one most corrupt in the nation. Gyanendra tried to made deal with Gacchadar and RK Mainali, and the whole nation knows this.In Gyanendra's rule, if you don't know, everybody in his family gets six figure sallary from the nation's coffer. If that is not corruption, then we have been blinded in our ability to discern what is corruption and what is not. Now about giving chance to Gyanendra for peacekeeping. I am not sure if there is peace in Nepal. All I see is Maoists are controlling some areas, those who sufferred from Maoists are still in KTM, and army has agreed to return back to barrack. This is a situation of equilibrium, not a peace. We are misunderstanding peace: just because a bullet is not fired doesn't mean there is peace, and a proof of that is 38th parallel line between two Korea. Now does this king can bring peace? Of course, he can, and that is where I concur with you. If he gives up his Sheshnaag throne, and flashy sripech bedecked with feather of swiftly extincting Bird Of Paradise, he can bring peace. But he won't do that easily. I can also see Panchayat as a yardstick to judge recent king who allegedly used to be a leader of Bhumigat Giroha: Tell me if any single prime minister was allowed to rule for his full 5 years in 30 years of Panchayat? From 2040-2043, we had four prime minister, i.e. Surya Bdr, Lokendra, Nagendra and Marich Man. Marich Man was the longest continually serving prime minister under Panchayat, if I remember it correctly. This proves that given full authority, these darbaariya also fought among each other like jackals fighting for dead corpse. With such kind of vitae, how can Gyanendra Maharaj be more eligible to rule Nepal? What is the best system for us? a system for the people,and by the people. A system of powerful local representative bodies, a representative electoral bodies in the center, free media and powerful constitutional institutes and a country with palaces but no king. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 13-May-03 06:16 PM
Biswo ji, Your current posting is much better in terms of rhetoric and argument. I was asking you for an evening earlier (yesterday) to post my comment on one of your postings above. But before I could post my comment, you came down heavily on me (& few others) with your nonsense accusation. That unprovoked attack badly enraged me. I will try to answer your questions, may be tomorrow. Biswoji, these days I am facing quite a bit of pressure from different quarters. Even though I want to write my response right now, I cant.-- Bhat khane melo lai dau ma rakhi halna pani bhayena.-- I will try to scrap some minutes off of my tight schedule (tomorrow) to respond to your most recent posting posted above. I am not promising but I will try. |
| tick | Posted
on 13-May-03 06:21 PM
Communication is the fundamental basis of democracy. Respectful disagreement is the basis of human culture. We are lacking both of these qualities in this discussion. People that act as bullies and try to shove their beliefs are in no way considered intellectual. When I see some of the postings, it has hypocrisy all over it. No specifics, I do not want to start another maobadi-like war in Sajha (it is not worth it) when peace process is in progress ;-). May Peace Prevail at home and at Sajha. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 13-May-03 07:38 PM
has anyone heard this: ghumi firi rumjatar? The majority of people supporting Girija in Nepal are not SUPPORTING Girija at all. To them Girija represnets a hope that if he could become the PM of Nepal despite his RURAL/OUTSIDE KTM background, we can do it too. These are the people, mostly outside of the valley who want to make it big in Kathmandu/Nepali Politics but are fearful that if the King takes over again, then there will be no hope for these educated outsiders with networks. They will be sidelined like in the past. And these are ambitious young talented people with future political aspirations. Now, from a remote bhanda remote district to the world to back in Kathmandu to make "policies" is a dream that has to be achieved. If they now bash Girija, then their hopes will be dashed. This is the attitude. So, no matter how much they want to bash Girija, they can't. Now, when they can't bash Girija, they have to bash the King. To make Girija a hero, there has to be a villian, and the King is the villian. namaste |
| tick | Posted
on 13-May-03 08:50 PM
Let's hope more and more people get involved in politics and take responsibility for their decissions. Many studnets are "bought" to create disruptions. It does not take a whole lot to to create unrest. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 13-May-03 08:56 PM
This new andolan will come to an abrupt end soon. |
| tick | Posted
on 13-May-03 09:12 PM
It will. |
| prawin | Posted
on 13-May-03 09:27 PM
of course, as you [whoever you are] will agree, it isn't how soon the new andolan, Jana Sangharsha, Part II [so foiking dramatic] comes to an end, but what at all it manages to get done before the end that really matters. the aristocrats really have no opolitical mandate, although they have a lot of economic leverage [because they ownmost sites of industry, and thus have a control over sources of wage]; nor do the revolutionaries, although they have a certain political weight given to them for their capacity to wrought violence upon the people. the real force that the the general public "elected," for all that the word is worth, is still UML and NC-- the people carrying out the Jana Sangharsha, Part II. I, for one, don't think that either MaKuNe OR GPK will be inconsecquectial. they will have much larger impact on how the future of teh Nepali nation will be than Our Raja Sabai ko Sajha, or Our Mahan Prachanda Pathik. but what do i know? |
| Paschim | Posted
on 14-May-03 07:59 AM
Isolated Freak wrote: "you know what, in the 21st century, the definition of democracy has chagned...The whole system is being questioned... The problem with you (General YOU) seem to believe that democracy and liberty go together and that's the biggest flaw (now, don't get offended)...Democracy does not necessarily lead to libertyy and those two are totally different concepts says Fareed Zakaria." This enlightening sermon is not so much offensive, as Freak anticipates, as it is amusing for the wrong reason. If only verdicts were as crystal as they appear on book jacket blurbs or 2 page reviews one locates on Google. Before I remark further on Zakaria's highly insightful and crisp, "The Future of Freedom: Illiberal Democracy at Home and Abroad", or even his famous but smaller, 5 year old precursor in FA, I have a simple question for Isolated Freak: Have you ACTUALLY read this book by Dr. Zakaria? So haughtily do you address the masses (us) regarding this profound knowledge, Sire, that I was just curious. A simple yes or no will be helpful. Then we may take it from there. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 14-May-03 08:15 AM
Biswoji, ".. I am sure we vividly remember how we disagreed about democracy.." Yes, we did. And I still stand by on my position. I don't want an ideal or copy democracy. I want a practical one for our nation-whatever works. I have written about this again and again so I won't repeat the same thing again to "save a lot of time, webspace, electricity, and energy!" [M.P.'s words]. " if you and I are not going to agree with a call to rein in Gyanendra, Paras, Sharad Chandra Shah etc rightnow, we better give the nation to their lap, and see ourselves as their fief in the future." I have never said we should not rein in GBBS (I don't want to talk about other offshoots). We should rein him. But how? I guess this is where we differ. You may want to give power back to GPK and MaKuNe and I don't. Before I go any further let me make one thing clear, I am condemning leadership of the parties not the parties themselves. I understand there are many party cadres in NC and UML who are truly patriotic and care for the nation and the people. I have high regards for them. If they come forward to take powe, I will be a happy citizen. I just don't like GPK and Makune. Their leadership sucks. They have failed to deliver what they were expected to. This is my observation. If you want to differ, you are the master of your decision. "There is a conflict between two forces: one those who consider democratic system an important system for statecraft, another one who consider they can rule Nepal because of their pedigree." Nepal is going thru a multi-dimensional conflict these days not just two forces are engaged. No one can rule Nepal relying on pedigree alone. I very much doubt GPK or MAKUNE care that much of a statecraft to stand for a democratic system. I guess democratic system for them means the system that puts them in Singhadurbar. If they were truly into democratic systems they wouldn't have made a joke of it. I am angrier with GPK than MAKUNE, honestly. NC not just once but twice- secured majority in the parliament. Still, the government couldn't be stable. Why? because GPK was bullying all the time. GPK didn't have time to think about the nation and the people but he had enough time to create turmoil in the government and finally caused the parliament to dissolve both times. I remember when he pulled KPB's leg down he said he did what he did because KPB couldn't rein in the Maoists. Had KPB was successful in controlling Maoists, he would never have kicked KPB out. But when he came to power, he also neither could control Maobadis nor could get them to negotiation. If he had not gone mad on disciplinary action against Deuba, Deuba won't have recommended the king to dissolve the parliament. GPK pushed Deuba for that House dismissal. Now, GPK wants the restoration of the house. What a joke. They -all these damn leaders- were together when they ask Deuba to ask the King for election extension. They always talk about the Constitution, did they not read what is in there? Was Deuba not asking the King to do something that was not constitutional? [this is a question mark]. "I remember that you once considered Gyanendra's appropriation of budget for royal palace a corrupt act. I remember Paras's act also enraged you in the past." I was/am never a rajbhakta (just because I am not arajbhakta, I don't make fun of others who are. I have respect for them as well) . I don't remember any particular reason but I always kept myself away from Royal family extravaganza. "Kept away" means I was never fascinated with them. One day I was coming home from school. I was 13 then (I think). At lainchour, I saw people standing on the side of a road (lekhanath marg-you are well aware of that road since you attended ASCOL) and police were running here and there pushing people around occasionally with ghumaro ko laththi and vulgar words. I was curious to know who is coming or going (I knew the "sawari" was on its way). One said "Raja" other said "Rani", and there were others who didn't know. Police was saying "sarkarko sawari". There were bunch of sarkars those days. I couldn't figure out whose sawari is taking place. I couldn't cross the street, so I also stood there. After few minutes, following motorbikes and flashing light vehicles, a white car came by. "Raja Raja", I heard. People clapped and did namaste bowing in different degree. I was also getting ready to offer a namaste to the king. But when I saw the King was busy talking with the queen and did not even look at us-the people, I didn't offer any namaste. I thought, he is the King because of us. If he does not have time to look at us and acknowledge our gesture then I shouldn't be wasting my time doing namaste to him. After few years, I was standing less than a yard away from him-the king- in Butwal. There too, I neither clapped nor bowed nor did namaste. If GBBS stands before me today, I don't think I would do bow and do a Namaste to him. However, if he proves to be worthy of it (Namaste or respect in braoder term) I wouldn't mind doing so. But as it is, I won't (willingly). Now on CP Paras. What/who was stopping these political leaders who claim to represent all sovereign Nepali citizens to collectively walk to the King and say, "Look your son is out of control, we demand he be checked (I don't think there is law at hand to prosecute the CP as yet, so I understand they couldn't have asked for a legal action). Then they should also arrange a meeting with Paras himself and tell him that his actions have concerned us and won't be tolerated. He better behave as he is supposed to otherwise be ready to take the heat on. Why don't these leaders have this much guts? If they could do this (they still can), I would say "Bravo"! Ok, I have to come back for the rest. I have to go now. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 14-May-03 10:31 AM
OK Pashim, To answer your question, NO, I am yet to read the book, and that statement was taken from the review published on the Economist. and IF you wnat to take the discussion on democracy further, I am up for it. Actually, i ahve been raising this issue for a long time in this board. If you are willing to discuss issues pertaining to democracy in a democratic manner without letting your "sympathies" and or biases dominate it, I am up for it and I will reciproacte in the same manner. But if you go on name calling and assuming that whoever disagrees with you is a total idiot, then.. you know what happens then. . Let's question democracy. Is democracy only electing leaders or it means something else? Or discussing the pabitra system of democracy a taboo? Now, i don't wnat to be labelled ultra-this and ultra that just for questiong democracy. namaste. have a good one. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 14-May-03 12:42 PM
" I am not clear whether you approve Sharad Chandra Shah, Prabal Shamsher Rana etc representing us and ruling us these days. " Are Sharad Chandra Shah, Prabal Shamser Rana etc. representing us? I didn't know. What are they representing us on? "The RNA, directly under king since fifty years, is a place where you can't be in top without having some certain sirname and connection. I would like to know if you think these people will make Nepal better place. " Surname does not make a person good or bad. When I evaluate people, I look at their actions not their surnames. I have nothing against surnames. Favoritism exists everywhere (I am not defending though). I am not aware of any society that is free of it. I wonder if such society even exists or ever existed. Connection with merit is a wonderful concept and works pretty well. Even in the US, connection plays a significant role. I don't believe in ideal world. Such world only exists in imagination. It would be great if we could get rid of favoritism for good. But I doubt that is going to happen. However, Bisowji can you please direct me to the clause (whatever it is called Article, code etc.) in the Constitution or wherever that puts RNA "directly" under the king. I want to read what that clause or law or code says regarding the king and RNA. "Now whether you like it or not, Nepal's one of best economic growth rates was achieved under Girija's first rule. " How long did GPK rule and how can you attribute "the best economic growth" just to his first ruling period? If you argue previous days (including those of panchayat) are to be blamed for the growing problems we are facing today then shouldn't you give some credit to those very previous days for the "best economic growth" that you claim we had during GPK's first rule? After all those previous days may have provided some base for the "best economic growth" unless GPK did everything from scratch and achieved what you claim he did. "CPN(UML) was very popular during its 9 month rule. You can't blame political parties for sending Maoists to jungle, they went there themselves, and started doing all sorts of things. " CPN UML was popular during its short rule. I know and agree. That was good. But who brought them down? Narayanhiti or the dude sitting on the other side of the isle in the same Pratinidhi sabha? and Why did fellow MPs brought UML govt. down? Yes, I very much blame the political parties for sending Maosits to jungle. No, I don't think they went to the jungles on their own. Marna ra Maarna kohi (reasonable person) yattikai tayar hudaina. I understand the leadership in Maoists took advantage of the situation but look at the support on Maobad during its early days. Support to Maobad was directly related to the frustration with the government and the political leaderships. People were not expecting much from Narayanhiti those days but were expecting a lot from singhdurbar. I realize even if they -shighadurbare- had wanted to fulfill all the dreams-just basic- they couldn't have. We severly lack infrastructure, resource, or instrument to deliver what the citizens want. But they couldn't even address the issues. They couldn't convince the people that they are committed to minimize if nor eradicate their(people's) basic problems. They couldn't go the people and convince that they are working for the them -people who elected them. They came to the parliament-collected pajeros-money-houses-and even secured pension for them. Thank god that the Supreme Court kicked that pension policy out later. Corruption, bad governance, ailing economy, security all became more common. Party leaderships were badly tangled with their personal and interparty/intraparty conflict. People started to lose faith on them. Maobad was promising what general public was looking for. "CIAA was made the most powerful during multiparty democracy. How can that system's revival be bad for us? How can the demand that we have parliament or those who got people's vote in government be bad? No one has stopped king Gyanendra and his people to file a case against Girija and Madhav if they are corrupt." Biswoji, do you think GBBS could've filed a corruption case against GPK? Or MaKuNe? My god! They would have raised heaven and earth. More later. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 14-May-03 02:28 PM
Sparshaji, In a short synopsis of your reply, I have come to understood that [Please correct me if I misunderstood]: i) You think Gyanendra is afraid of GPK and MKN, and so is not filing corruption case against them. [I think he better be. This is the same man who is having free rein in national coffer for his family expense, anyway.] ii) Political parties sent Maoists to jungle.[ Perhaps because they refused to share the power with the party(Maoist) with not a single seat in parliament, right? or Perhaps they regarded as baloney the demand of republicanism, which was one of the demands of Maoists, if I remember correctly. ] iii)Panchayat provided the infrastructure to provide for the high growth rate of GPK economy. [ That is partially true. But with the zeal, and party structure, and popular base, NC provided more than infrastructure, it provided impetus, and right policy. And in another note, would you argue that 90s high growth of USA was due to George Bush's policy and not of Clinton's?] iv) UML's government was unfairly brought down.[It was brought down with supreme court blessing, and by the vote of majority of MPs in parliament which is a norm in democratic world.] v)You don't know Prabal Shamsher and Sharad Chandra are representing us. [Prabal Shamsher is new ambassador to UK. Sharad Chandra Shah, the man who was behind the seizure of heroine in football by Los Angeles authority in 1984 Olympics, is now enjoying the privilege of advisor of PM.] vi) You think it is fine if certain sirnames rule Nepal. [ I argue for diversity.] Well, Sparshaji, It seems we disagree in a lot of aspects about our nation. Hope to converse with you again here. |
| czar | Posted
on 14-May-03 02:55 PM
"In the end, there will be five Kings: four in a deck of cards and one in the House of Windsor." Has anyone any idea just how much money the occupants of Narayanhiti have made off national resources ? Last year I had made reference to their acts of 'sovereign' goodwill in handing over timber permits to their favoured few. How those permits were later doctored to add a zero or two to the cu. ft of timber to be felled. Enormous sums were made. Just one example. Then there are the business interests of the former GBBS. In the late 80's, Soaltee and the othe 'royal' hotels owed Bidyut Pradhikaran over a billion rupees in unpaid bills. Was it all former CEO Prabhakar Rana's doing? Under whose patronage was he operating one might care to ask perhaps. This is but one example. During the last but one period (correct me if I am wrong) when parliament was in session, the opposition went into paroxysms of rage and brought proceedings to a standstill. I don't think any business was conducted whatsoever during that entire period. Yet, shamelessly, each and every member lined up to collect their wages of sin. If I remember correctly, the bill to the national exchequer was somewhere in the region of Rs. 93 lakhs or so (calculated based on info. published in the news papers then). If those protesting so vehemently had such strong beliefs, then perhaps they ought not to have dipped their snouts into the national coffers for having done nothing of a constructive nature. After all, those sums are paid for work they supposedly to do in parliament. If no business was conducted, why pay them? Or do they qualify for a different work ethic than you and I ? Ought not they have instead been billed for disrupting the 'people's' business? Should perhaps some accounting be done for all the monetary and physical damage caused by the endless bandhs and the 'people's movements' ? So is every citizen to be laden with yet more loans per capita to undo all the havoc wreaked by these so called representatives of the people ? And it is this lot that we bank on to build a a just and equitable society? I say, clear the bums out, every man jack of them, from politicos, maos to royals. Start from scratch and set the Biswo's, Paschims, Nepes and IFs loose to tackle the place. They want to and they will, regardless that every Friday night they may be aiming beer mugs at each other's heads. Nepal would be better off in their hands than in those of the pseudo nationalists now parading around as leaders. |
| czar | Posted
on 14-May-03 04:07 PM
Correction: by "former GBBS" I meant "former Prince GBBS." |
| sparsha | Posted
on 14-May-03 05:56 PM
Biswoji, You partially not completely got my points. Looks like I will have to write again to clarify things and counter your arguments and also help correct your assumption regarding my expressions. We will converse again, indeed. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 15-May-03 06:18 AM
"You think Gyanendra is afraid of GPK and MKN, and so is not filing corruption case against them. [I think he better be. This is the same man who is having free rein in national coffer for his family expense, anyway.] " GBBS may not be afraid of GPK or MaKuNE but may not want unnecessary propaganda from them. If the constitutional king starts filing cases against so called top caliber leaders on the parliament then you can assume what they will cry on. How dare a rubber stamp king file cases against the leaders of sovereign people? May god! Are you kidding Bisowji? ii) Political parties sent Maoists to jungle.[ Perhaps because they refused to share the power with the party(Maoist) with not a single seat in parliament, right? or Perhaps they regarded as baloney the demand of republicanism, which was one of the demands of Maoists, if I remember correctly. ] Who has how many seats in the parliament is not always the key issue in power sharing. Until recently (and still in remarkable extent) BRB and his gang were rocking the kingdom. Believe or not, sovereign people don't want Maobadis to go back to jungle again. Dou you Biswoji? Do you want them to go back to jungle? Political parties failed to provide what people expected from them. This is a major reason for the Maobad to gain momentum. Power sharing stuff only applies to top leaders not general cadres. Marna ra Maarna tayar bhayera Maobadi ma lagne maidane comradeharu powersharing ko lagi ladeka hun jasto malai lagdaina. Political parties probably did not buy plane tickets or provided buses or escorted Maobadis to the jungle. Yes, you are right if this is what you mean by saying political parties did not send Maoists to jungle they went there themselves. iii)"Panchayat provided the infrastructure to provide for the high growth rate of GPK economy. [ That is partially true. But with the zeal, and party structure, and popular base, NC provided more than infrastructure, it provided impetus, and right policy. And in another note, would you argue that 90s high growth of USA was due to George Bush's policy and not of Clinton's?] " When there is an opportunity to thank or praise "GPK" you would like to take every opportunity. You claim that in his short first rule GPK achieved the best economic growth as if he did that from scratch. You are giving full credit to GPK's rule when good thing happened. Then when we talk about Maoists and other economic problems, you tend point fingures at panchayat leaders and say they started it. You blame panchayat and say the problems grew gradually. Bad things grew from panchayat days and good things happened rightaway. I am not defending panchayat. I am only questioning fairness in your presentation. "iv) UML's government was unfairly brought down.[It was brought down with supreme court blessing, and by the vote of majority of MPs in parliament which is a norm in democratic world.]" Who brought down "unfairly?". Who recommended to dissolve the parliament and why? Supreme court did not intervene on its own. It was required to give its ruling. "v)You don't know Prabal Shamsher and Sharad Chandra are representing us. [Prabal Shamsher is new ambassador to UK. Sharad Chandra Shah, the man who was behind the seizure of heroine in football by Los Angeles authority in 1984 Olympics, is now enjoying the privilege of advisor of PM.] " There were many ambassadors in the past from different political parties. Were they representing you? I felt they were representing their respective parties. I don't think they represented me. Why are you screaming about Shard Chandra here? Why don't your sovereign leaders of sovereign people do anything about sharad Chandra then? Who is/are stopping them to file case against sharad Chandra and other Chandra suryas if they think they have case against him/them? "vi) You think it is fine if certain sirnames rule Nepal. [ I argue for diversity.]" Yes, I don't run after surnames. Act of a person not surname matters to me. I am also for diversity for just for the heck of it I don't want a diversity of lousy people. "Prove your capacity. I will respect you regardless of your surnames." This is what I think. Also, you think there is no peace in Nepal? Come on Biswo ji. People were not even commenting if less than 20 people died a day in Nepal. Some large numbers of casualties were needed to draw people's attention. Now, how many deaths do you hear/read a day in Nepal? If this is not a peace process than what is? Yes the peace is not restored yet. But we should give the process a chance. What is the point of disrupting the process? I don't attack GBBS just because he is the king. Top political leaders messed things badly and they don't see that. All they claim is the king violated the constitution some six months ago and because of that Nepal is about to collapse. Afno kehi garne huti chhaina bhrastachar, dalgat rajniti ra byaktigat swartha paripurti dekhi bahek ani yaso uso garyo arka mathi dosh sarne jamarko. King took the power because that is what these lousy leaders were asking for. Why didn't people protested against the royal move immediately? What does this mean? If party leaders prove that they are working for the people kohi maika lal unhe chhu nahi sakta chahe wo sesnagwala bhai hi kyo na ho. The nation belongs to the people. The king does not own us. He is gonna be there in narayanhiti as long as we (not just handful-most of us) want. Hamilai afu afu mai lad.dai fursad chhaina. King Birendra rarely intervened in the daily operation of the government. All those 12 years, GPK and MaKuNe were running a nautanki show. Their show flopped, my friend. So, I think. "Mero guruko barhai takka" le guru bechna garho hunchha. |
| allare | Posted
on 15-May-03 06:47 AM
Nice.. nice... and simply great. Wish those GPK, MAKUNE , BRB and GBBS come here and see this thread and get some enlightment to run the country. Hey sparsh and biswo ji, where are you people, why do not you people join nepali politics and give some clear vision to nation. No matter from which place and party you will file your candidancy, I will come to vote both of you. tara tara tara.. i mean but but but.. yesto kura haru ta aafno jamana ma tyo BRB, GPK ra MAKUNE le pani tannai garyo hola ni.. tara ke garnu.. tiniharu le kura matrai gare.. kaam ta dekhi halyo.. aba biswo ji ra sparsh le pani kura matrai garne ki kehi KAAM pani garne? |
| Biswo | Posted
on 15-May-03 09:51 AM
>How dare a rubber stamp king file cases >against the leaders of sovereign people? >May god! Are you kidding Bisowji? Rubber-stamp king? Are we still talking about King Gyanendra who grandly proclaimed to assume 'all executive authorities' on Ashoj 18? >Who has how many seats in the parliament > is not always the key issue in power sharing. >Until recently (and still in remarkable extent) >BRB and his gang were rocking the kingdom. > Believe or not, sovereign people don't want > Maobadis to go back to jungle again. So what's your point, Sparshaji? The nation, the elected leaders give in to the demand of a bunch of terrorists and share power with them in center? Are we still talking about fair system of governance or some kind of system where the elected sovereign governments can be blackmailed? Oh, come on.Yes, it matters in parliamentary system who wins how many seats. Just because KKK has ability to shake USA doesn't mean USA will give in to their demand and make David Duke a head of state. >I am not defending panchayat. I am only >questioning fairness in your presentation. Wait a minute, Sparshaji. Did I say GPK did everything from the scratch?However, He delivered and that's the point. He had the capacity to deliver. Even Maoists have never said that they were sent to jungle by parties. They went there because they want to throw away king, and which was not constitutional then. >There were many ambassadors in the past from >different political parties. Were they representing >you? Those who were representing my country outside of Nepal were representing me. -- And one more thing, if I understand correctly. You said that if Paras were so damn wrong, what stopped our leaders to go to the king and oppose him? Well, this is a classic example of bias, and an attempt to blame the victims rather than oppressors. First of all, student wings of UML did protest against Paras. They collected 5,00,000 signatures and handed it to the 'nyaaya premi' king Birendra. Now since you love to blame political parties ala Mandal for running those students wings, here is one more thing you have to accept: that the students wings were mobilized with the support of the political parties. What was the result of protest against Paras? Nothing. I am sorry ,however, that the political leaders didn't protest according to the way you, Sparshaji years later now writing from in front of a computer desk in Maryland, would like them to do. I will definitely tell them this fact if I happen to meet them next time. Anyway, to go back to the Paras incidence, The palace didn't want to do anything, nothing happened against him, and we have to see this day where he is waiting to ascend to the throne while rest of Nepali people are cowering with apprehension. And my dear friend, that is why I think the monarchy is worthless corrupt system where it is fruitless to go and seek justice. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 15-May-03 09:53 AM
Allare, I don't understand why you think I am seeking to be politician or anything like that. I am not, really. Even if I want to be minister or anything like that, I will love to be minister after being elected from my people. But, be assured, politics is not my field. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 15-May-03 10:28 AM
>How dare a rubber stamp king file cases >against the leaders of sovereign people? >May god! Are you kidding Bisowji? I did not say this. The GPK and MaKuNe would have [based on how they have presented themselves before us]. "So what's your point, Sparshaji? The nation, the elected leaders give in to the demand of a bunch of terrorists and share power with them in center? Are we still talking about fair system of governance or some kind of system where the elected sovereign governments can be blackmailed? Oh, come on.Yes, it matters in parliamentary system who wins how many seats. Just because KKK has ability to shake USA doesn't mean USA will give in to their demand and make David Duke a head of state. " Also, the MP who claimed to represent Ropla was stuck in ktm. So much for the representation. Maobadis rocked the nation. That's why the govt. want to make peace with them. Even Girija babu wants that. Did you not know? Girija babu wants to share power with them now. "However, He delivered and that's the point. He had the capacity to deliver. Even Maoists have never said that they were sent to jungle by parties. " Yeah, Girija delivered every thing. He certainly can deliver. He delivers corruption, bad governance, pipal pate statements, haikambad and so on. And he has delivered all those things to us in the past with good record. "Even Maoists have never said that they were sent to jungle by parties. " Why would they? Saying they went on their own or ran the movement on their own gives them more strength and popularity than saying "hamlai ta GPK, GBBS, ra MaKuNe le pathako". "They went there because they want to throw away king, and which was not constitutional then. " Well, is it constitutional now? I didn't know. Were they launching the movement only to throw the king away or they have other agendas too? "Those who were representing my country outside of Nepal were representing me." Girija and MaKuNe hanumans don't represent me. They may say they do but they don't. they only represent their maibaps and their parties. "First of all, student wings of UML did protest against Paras. They collected 5,00,000 signatures and handed it to the 'nyaaya premi' king Birendra. Now since you love to blame political parties ala Mandal for running those students wings, here is one more thing you have to accept: that the students wings were mobilized with the support of the political parties. What was the result of protest against Paras? Nothing." So, why are you complaing at me? If nothing happened. Whose fault is it? they give a signed banner to the king and said you do something sarkar---this dude is going crazy. And sarkar did not give a damn. Then protestors went home watched z tv and slept. Why are you running after me? You say political parties mobilized student wings against paras and still nothing happened. Then you should say, damn! political parties failed to delivered. What did they mobilize student wings for then? "Sparshaji years later now writing from in front of a computer desk in Maryland, would like them to do." Biswo ji, I live in MD. So, where do you want me to go and write and what I want to write. Yes I could write on sand or on a piece of paper sitting behind a tree or could also write on something somewhere but how would you know what I wrote if I don't come to this computer desk, sit in front of it and write/type and post here in sajha? Maile yatti pani garna nahune? Kina yastari khedo khaneko? BTW, I noticed you only picked certain thing from my post. You did not mention certain points I had written replying you. I guess you agree with me on those. Good day. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 15-May-03 10:09 PM
Sparshaji, I guess I have to excuse myself for a few days, as one my tests draw near. Meanwhile, with differences intact: Biswo |
| sparsha | Posted
on 16-May-03 06:38 AM
Biswoji, Take your time. This is not the last thread of sajha.com, anyway. We will certainly face each other (with valid and reasonable arguments and also with smile, of course) again here in sajha may be in different threads. In the mean time I wish you a "shock and awe" success in test(s). |
| paramendra | Posted
on 19-May-03 09:54 AM
Coming back to Sajha - less frequently these days - and trying to take a sip here, a sip there of Nepali politics, I am reminded of a brief article I wrote for a group dynamics class. http://www.geocities.com/bhagat266/b/groupdynamics121399.html There are two basic types of groups: the work groups, and the basic assumption groups. Is the whole of Nepal a basic assumption group? That feeling of going round and round in circles, if you know what I mean ............ |
| Sadabichar | Posted
on 19-May-03 05:33 PM
Wow, things are really turning out dramatic in Nepal these days... Chanakya Chaturya is what's being played by all participants who are vying for power. Sometimes, don't you think it's little bit hard to play games in front of nepalese population while the majority is uneducated and unaware about the world? i) Long time back JICP had started it's works, and these are the same parties that approved the commission to be formed and approved. ii) If JICP has recommended to take actions against the culprits, it must be done so. Ironically, these are the parties who never took any actions in the similar cases in their 12 year rule. Boomerange was not thrown properly those days, and thus it didn't hit any targets. Well, everybody knows the consequences thenafter, the boomerang is coming back to themselves. This is the game of Boomerang. iii) The one reason of initiating the current protests by the opposition parties could be the fear of these top brass leaders being prosecuted. The question could has been thus raised: Is it that after getting hint that CIAA gonna come after them, they hurriedly launched the protests OR whether the CIAA started this actions with polical motivation? Anyways, the netas would surely love to go to jail while movement is underway rather than being branded as "corrupt leaders". iv) Otherwise, why after almost 7 months only these netas lauched protests blaming the king's move unconstitutional. However, it's still controversial if the Oct 4 move by the king is an unconstitutional one. vi) These are the very same parties which didn't utter a single word when the CIAA went after 20 highly correpted karmacharis. vii) Interestingly, as soon as Girija Pd. Koirala (GPK) received summons from CIAA, Madhav Kumar Nepal (MKN) calls the CIAA move a conspiracy. Can MKN publicly give statement saying that GPK never amassed wealth during his tenure? viii) It's the same MKN's party, CPN-UML, which proclaimed the top-ten list of corrupts in the country that included GPK. ix) It's the same CPN-UML which lauched numerous street protests demanding the prosecution of GPK by putting him in the jail for Lauda Kanda. x) And, is it not this Nepali Congress, which made lots of noise at the house blaming the ministers of MKN who took bribes in the Chase (?) Air Kanda? BOTTOM-LINE is: These leaders must face CIAA, and prove themselves clean. Then only they can raise their heads in front of Nepalese people's eyes. |