| Sajha.com Archives | |
| Username | Post |
| (*)Y(*) | Posted
on 22-Jun-03 03:44 AM
- http://www-bcs.mit.edu/gaz/gaz-teaching/index.html |
| Nepe | Posted
on 22-Jun-03 10:23 AM
Thanks for the link, Lato kosero ji (I hope you don't mind this name I picked up from one of threads somewhere). I enjoyed it. Being a student of physics in early years of college, I am not unfamiliar with the subject of illusion. So I was not surprised. The reason I am writing is to share with the Sajhaites that I have found these illustrations of illusion very useful to make some of my meditation-ist friends rethink about the miracles of the meditation. One of my friends who has been in the camp of Vipashyana Dhyan multiple times used to describe the amazing conciousness he used to acquire during the deep stage of the meditation, like he could feel the movement of blood cells in his vein and so on. My lakh prayatna to discredit it with scientific reasoning did not work. But when he looked at the illustration of physical illusions, things became softer. I took note of the term 'extreme mysticism' used by le chef du nuit ji in another thread with special interest. I suppose it relates to what I am talking about here. Anyway, it will be interesting to know if some Sajhaites have personal experience of Vipashyana or other miraculous meditation and what they say about illusions. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 22-Jun-03 10:38 AM
Personally, there is no miracle in meditation! Meditation is a state of "Mindfulness " which can be attained even in the most mundane little things in life. I can be in a meditative state while I am washing dishes, gardening or creating an artwork. The end result is in the mind. Imposing an external physical and/or evironmental discipline (like a boot camp) has its uses but can one transfer the same state of mind into "normal" living? The key of meditation and or spirituality is to be able to achieve the same while attending to life, living and/or other responisibilities. Does one have the mental capacity or the discipline to do that? Frankly, one does not have to dapple with extreme mysticism ( le chef) to experience harmony with one's spirit or the universal spirit. |
| Nepe | Posted
on 22-Jun-03 12:48 PM
Sitara hajur, Although I have not found you giving details of your take on various schools of meditation, I gather from your musings, remarks and snippets that you have a rather different view vis a vis prevalent practices and interpretation of meditation. Your reply above makes it even clearer. I also particularly remember your remarks that you don't believe in an organized religion (let us forget the part that some lost soul had ridiculed it !). I haven't myself talked about my take on religion much in this forum. However, I must tell I agree with your views and takes to a large extent if not in toto. I particularly appreciate the way you demystify meditation and integrate it to a normal daily life. I think that's the way to go about it to make life and living smoother and less complicated. That said, while I am positive towards the positive change many practitioners of the organized meditation like Vipashyana claim, I find it alarming to see it emerge as a practice of pseudo science. The friend I talked about was a graduate of natural science. His refractory faith in Vipashyana as a scientific spiritualism without putting it to a rigorous scientific logical test was an alarming trend to me. A lie is a lie, no matter how much good it may be. The foundation of a modern society should be laid in people's aspiration of seeking the truth. Then it can support in it's upper tiers the freedom of seeking happiness, of course, without compromising the foundation. Is Vipashyana and any other pseudo science for that matter not compromising the very foundation I just talked about ? That is my concern. Tetti ho. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 28-Jun-03 08:14 AM
Nepe ji: Been wanting to get back to this topic but could not due to end of the academic year jhanjhats. Please bear with me as I attempt to collect my thoughts on meditation and its significance on science and/or scientific research. I will try to start with the logistics of the body and conclude with the spirit and mind. According to Joel Levey ( an NIH researcher/scientist) The concept of rest (inaction) is an important fact in the workings of the body. Nature has a naturally built-in system for rest/ inaction/ rejuvenation/ pause..whatever you want to call it. The heart is a powerhouse, a bioelectrical wonder which generates a bioelectrical field that is 40 to 60 times stronger than the field generated by the brain. The electrical field generated every time the heart beats, spans far beyond the body and if a proper sensitive device were to be set up, a person's presence in the room could be announced just by the beat of his heart. The workings of the heart is influenced by a two fold path of the autonomic nervous system: the sympathetic (associated with stress-arousal) and the parasympathetic (associated with the relaxation response). The two work together to balance the work of the heart.... each racing of the heartbeat has to be balanced with the slowing down. The built- in rest is also evident in the pause between the heartbeats. Similarly, lungs have a built in pause with each inhalation, there is a pause before the exhalation. Learning to breathe correctly is a life skill because it calms the nervous system while distributing vital oxygen throughout the body. The rests re-align the biological workings of the body. Another important built- in rest mechanism is sleep. The body, mind and spirit need the sleep cycles or energy cycle(a reverse look) that provide a vital repose necessary to rebuilt a slowly degenerating (with age, negligence, carelessness) system. The greater the intensity of work, the higher the need for sleep; the humming bird which flaps its wings with lightning speeds has a heartbeat of hundreds per minute and yet it spends 82 percent of its time resting (not flying around); the gorilla ( a closer relative to man) spends 51 % of the day resting. Ironically, the human using all its mental faculties and biological workings, in a highspeed lifestyle, is the most sleep/rest deprived of the lot. Here I may use sleep and rest as interchangeable. And, this is where the modern day importance/ rage of meditation comes in: To find an environment AWAY from the the responsibilities of life ( a refuge) and give the ravished, famished mind, body and spirit an alotted and encapsuled time of mindful rest, aka Meditation. Serious meditation centers help to train breathing techniques to access optimum benefit for the mind, spirit and body; inhalation that pulls in life breath right into the " vacuum" of the abdomin and exhalation triggered by the squeezing motion of the abdomen muscles, is one wonderful way to re-align ones mind and body while concentrating on a center focal point. Another breathing technique is alternating between the right and the left nostrils. Breathing through the right nostril activates the left hemisphere of the brain and vice versa. So, what is the importance of alternate nostril breathing? It works like a mental floss. Science dictates that the right hemisphere concentrates on tasks that require sharp, clear thinking and attention to details, while the left concentrates on imaginations, intuition, relaxation..... One way of assessing the brain function is to find out which nostril you are breathing from ( breathing onto a mirror and checking the breath cloud; the bigger cloud indicates the brain -hemisphere function). Active Meditation trains to mindfully breath alternating the nostrils, thus balancing the brain functions. The techniques are very relaxing and yet serves to enhance clarity of thought. Your friend must be talking about "creative visualization" which allows the mind to visualize the universal energies to enter the mind and body through the 7 chakras while detoxing in the same way... the visualization can be as detailed at the visualizer wants it to be. Such creative visualization can give the susceptible/unsuspecting an incredible high, which the bystander might perceive as an "illusion". During energy healing treatments on illness like cancer, AIDs.... creative visualization allows a burst of mental energy to a depressive mindstate thus allowing better positive living if not cure. The thought that death comes to one and all becomes a healing fact rather than a cause for depression. Creative visualization (in meditation) also helps to subdue the pain centers in the brain, thus helping the terminally ill to adapt to their changing pain-cycles. So, yes although I said meditation should be included in the life and living process, many people NEED the time and space AWAY from daily living to train their mind to bring such mindfulness into daily living. Thank you for tolerating Sitara's ramblings hajur... just my perception on living, life and the maintenance of life, till death comes as the end! |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 28-Jun-03 01:47 PM
Jeeeeeeeez! again, can't you guys be precise! We don't need that long explanation. My eyes hurt! probably I should begin relaxing thoroughly, by opening my perceptions to full awareness of bodily sensations. I again opened to my basic awareness, to the stillness behind my thoughts, sensations and emotions. Still I don't see what you said.. It could be another illusion of dissolution. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 28-Jun-03 02:39 PM
Hellbound ji: The road to hell is surely paved with good intentions! Thanks for the suggestions but this time, it was my "mindful" effort to stay wordy. As for the dissolution, how illusive is the nature of semantics! :) |
| Nepe | Posted
on 28-Jun-03 10:06 PM
Sitara, Quite impressive ramblings, hajur. Particularly interesting to me personally was the scientific approach with which you dealt the subject of mediatation with. This and your reference of Joel Levey stimulated me to ponder over how our mind possibly would work optimally. I have no expert knowledge on this subject at all. The most I will be able to do is to try to apply broadly general scientific reasonings to make limited speculations about it. When we talk about mind-body entity, Deepak Chopra must be a good reference too. Unfortunately, and to my own shame, I have not read him. Just some reviews and a few pages of a book, that's all. Anyway, I will share my feelings, thoughts, doubts and whatever I find in my mind about mind some time soon. Hellbound, If it was not you but somebody else, I would have chosen to ignore. However, being impressed by some of your brilliant comments on certain subjects, I could not ignore the way you are charging your Jeeeezy whip to everyone who dare to write longer piece than you want. As NK would put, first it was interesting, then it became boring, now it is intolerable, Sir. I humbly request you to get off your high horse and let the horse graze for a while. In the mean time, you can print the long postings for reading later or just ignore them. I am not ruling out that a tutorial by you on precise writing would be a great kripaa to some of us ungifted writers, though. |
| le chef du nuit | Posted
on 29-Jun-03 03:34 AM
how i come to realize i know nothing at all. sajha has been a wonderful rediscovery questions: 1) ive always heard that people can recreate the high of marijuana with the help of meditation. id always thought that as an urban legend. but, if the 'uninitiated' get a high out of it, can it be possible for experienced practitioners to do the same? if it is, id love to practice some of these techniques. where can i go learn? hopefully i wont need the weed anymore :) 2) why, o why, do people have to grow up? i dont want to |
| Master_Of_One_Liners | Posted
on 29-Jun-03 04:58 AM
I can be in a meditative state while I am washing dishes, gardening or creating an artwork. Gardening is like sex - we sometimes produce fine gardens, but the rest of the time we do it for other reasons. |
| Suna | Posted
on 30-Jun-03 06:36 AM
Like weeding? AKA straigtening out one's mind while gardening ummmmm weeding? |