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| Username | Post |
| paramendra | Posted
on 07-Jul-03 05:22 PM
Some questions surface:
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| paramendra | Posted
on 26-Jul-03 05:24 PM
Is the "ceasefire" approaching its end? |
| thapap | Posted
on 27-Jul-03 12:14 AM
parmendra jyu, response to your question >>> if SBT goes then monarchy[of king GBBS]may fall or he will be an absolute monarch rather than constitutional monarch [at least in paper as now] >>> although maoist movement may had been fueled/supported[??] some royal elements [who were against late king birendra's action of 1990]; at this moment it is a burning lava by itself. so the its not the top giving the order it is the mid-level-commanders that control it.[analysis made by some RNA brasses] Republic in itself may be a dream [at least for next 3 years]. Next set of violences should have already started by now.[???? way i have heard about the operation in Rolpa and Surkhet] or should start in near future. >>> common ground between all of them are "money and power" >>> What is CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY??? constitution of nepal allows for local bodies, a lower[pratinidhi sabha] and the upper house[rastriya sabha]. lower is the 205 member elected parliamentarians. of upper house members [ i do not know the total number but i believe it is 60] of which 50 are elected from the combination of lower house and local body represetatives. 10 are Royal nominees [ from the "so-called" recommendation] of PM >>> GBBS is probably the most shrewd king we would see in our life time. Agitation of political party as "Ram Chandra Poudyal" said lacks "that sentimental value". and real "untainted uncorrupt" leaders who could boil blood and mobilize masses >>> GBBS is a business man and knows how to run an enterprise [it may be a business empire or country like nepal; he knows how to handle nepalese politicians]. he learned through his father Late king Mahendra had to deal with Rana[chandra Samsher and mohan samsher] to get the freedom and saw how MBBS manipulated MPK, BPK, TG, BT at their own game. >>> civil war. coz of maoist. Main political stream will never join it because they know that if the dream of republic ever materializes then they cannot drive around in their PAZERO's or LEXUS anymore. these major political parties are like vehicles without drivers and gas. GBBS has already taken control of most of the major leadership that could gather or steam populous support in VALLEY. These leadership has already detached themselves from parties. of course VALLEY is not whole NEPAL. But unless you have a major movement in VALLEY no agitation/revolution will materialize. [ Lesson from 1990]. >>> ceasefire ... what ceasefire??? just because somebody did not get shot and that news did not appear in Newspaper means there is ceasefire. RNA has been creating separate battalions with special training to relinquish maoist with offensive. Next set of violence will really show the strength of RNA. At least "if" battle hardened battallion deployed in surkhet and rolpa gets enough "ordiances" then MAOIST will suffer serious blows this time. maoist has been preparing to spread war beyond "mid-west" region. redeploying their mid-level commanders to recruit people and fuel the movement. Its like "situation before hurricane/storm" are perceived to be most complacent and calm |
| jaya_nepal | Posted
on 27-Jul-03 07:12 AM
Though democracy was restored in Nepal in 1990, but was it a democracy? Is democracy meant for political leaders to amass wealth, buy expensive cars and house in Kathmandu, go for a world tour, sell the whole country to neighboring country for pity self interest and to garnish support, fight over anything that would rise them to senior post in the ministry or even the prime minister of the nation, appoint people to post of which they have no knowledge, accept bribe for any reason, plunge the nation on the verge of economic collapse and a failed state, fight with the opposition for any reason, opposition oppose any move by the government because they are the opposition group, a civil war in the nation - if this what a democracy means, then King Gyanendra was absolutely wrong for his deeds of October 4 Royal takeover. Though I was in Nepal only for a month after the takeover - but Nepali people enjoyed more democracy than what they did prior to that, though few rights were curbed due to the ongoing civil war. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 09-Aug-03 12:09 AM
A Way Out Of The Triangular Morass Paramendra Bhagat August 8, 2003 http://www.geocities.com/paramendra/2003/morass.html When I think of Nepal, I think primarily of its national economy, of issues in global trade, of globalization, of the luck to be sandwiched between India and China, both potential superpowers that might unseat the United States itself before the century is over and done with. But, first, of course, a way has to be found out of the current triangular morass: the Maoists, the royal palace, and the parliamentary parties. It is an eery stalemate for now. It is a checkmate situation. The Maoists can not be militarily defeated. They are not strong enough to take over the country through use of arms, not strong enough to push the monarchy off the radar screen. The parliamentary parties complete the triangle. Their recourse is sitdowns, demonstrations, statements, and press conferences. The ceasefire with the Maoists is a prime achievement. That can not be squandered. The dialogue has to continue. I reiterate. I believe the number one thing is to keep the violence out. And so not letting go of the ceasefire with the Maoists is a must. After that, the Maoists and the royal palace have to realize that they are in a checkmate situation. One party is not in a position to militarily defeat the other. The royal palace has to be open to the possibility of a republic, and the Maoists have to be open to the possibility that the people might actually vote to keep the monarchy in some kind of a referendum. And that is where the parliamentary parties enter the scene. The parliamentary parties might be the monarchy's best friend. Their demand for an all-party government has to be met so they are brought under the tent. Their consensus candidate becomes Prime Minister. Such an all-party government comes into power with an explicit mandate: conduct peace talks with the Maoists, and hold elections. I believe the parliamentary parties are the royal palace's best friend. For all their complaints, they have not voiced the call for a republic. And so I think it might be best for the king to let go of Surya Bahadur Thapa, and invite an all-party government. The king might be leery because he might trust a Madhav Kumar Nepal much less than a Surya Bahadur Thapa. Madhav Nepal might change his mind and shoot for a republic midstream, the king must think. There is no provision in the current, derailed constitution for the revival of the dissolved parliament. Nepali Congress and Girija Koirala need to understand that and move on. Half the time Koirala comes across sounding like a worn out record. An all party government in which all major parties participate would then deal with the Maoists. As in, okay, you want a Constituent Assembly, we will have one. We will hold elections. And the resultant body would be of a parliament that would double as the Constituent Assembly. That assembly would frame a new constitution. But the Maoists would have to lay down their arms before that, and it would give word that it would accept the resultant constitution. That it would not go back into the jungle, if the people, through popular vote, decide to retain the monarchy. I have a feeling the monarchy will remain, though in a trimmed form, as in, bring the army totally under the parliament, recognize only the king's immediate family as the royal family, make transparent all royal assets, and so on. The activist monarchy like the kind this king has tried to play out is not going to be the model for the times to come. It might be a boring proposition to be a constitutional monarch, but it is what it is. The monarchy remains quite a popular institution, especially amidst all the instability. Personally, I am for a republic, but I think it is for the Nepali people to decide what they want. I mean, I bid farewell to Hinduism too, in my personal life. I am officially a Buddhist, have been for a few years now. I have major disagreements with Hinduism. But most Nepalis are Hindus. That is who and what they are, by birth and by choice. And the choice is perfectly legitimate. The same applies to the monarchy. If the Nepali people wish to retain it, they may do so. I only hope the major difference with the new constitution would be that Nepal becomes a federal state. I am a strong proponent of it. I think a federal form of government might be the only answer to the country's great cultural diversity and eons of ethnic and regional inequities. And it would help the cause if Badri Mandal and Hridayesh Tripathy buried their differences, and reunited the Sadbhavana, the only parliamentary party explicitly for a federal state. But change is slow coming. For example, what does Surya Bahadur Thapa mean when he says not even the king can sack him? How long will he stick around? I mean, he has to go before an all-party government can step in. He is someone with considerable political skills, but the disagreement might not be with his personality, rather the process that got him seated on to the "throne." The three corners of the triangle show little sign of budging from their respective positions. And that rigidity might be the primary problem. An all party government might be the first step in the right direction. That shows the ball for now is in the monarch's court. |
| bardan | Posted
on 10-Aug-03 05:22 AM
well just a few words: 1)i really dont think this king is so dumb enough to contemplate autocratic powers.although i agree with u guys that he does indeed look an activist. 2)i mean the the king has a limited choice when he takes over.......who does empower to run the affairs of the country.........its rerally a sad story inspite of having a decade of "democracy" we still dont have strong honest leaders....thats the biggest failure and the main reason the maoists were able to exploit the discontent.so when madhaz nepal demands the post of pm,i beleive the king was right in turning him down,a guy like opportunistic as mr nepal mustve been frightening to the king,also u need someone u can work with,mr nepal time and again has proved is opportunistic credentials.........be it from withdrawing at the last moment from the investigative committee formed after the royal masaccre....plus the more important point is the mr nepal is part of the failed leadership and part of the problem.u dont complicate matters further by giving him power again. 3)now the nepali congress,this is the oldest and at one time was the most revered party in nepal,the party of B.P koirala,now it has degenerated into a party of GP koirala,the root of the current problem,it all started with this man!!!!having a soft corner for the congress party,i can say that the party is in a very sorry state.......u have people like khum bahadur khadka who recently was in the news for having links in arm deals,calling the shots.now the situation is such that second generation leaders cannot emerge from GPK'S shadow,he has not let them come out,he recently said that he will retire soon,now whom does he plan to hand the mantle too???his daughter........???? 4)with a background like this,i totally understand the king wanting an activist role,although i know it is not in the spirit of democracy,but i think it is in the national interst at the moment.if he manages to solve the maoist equation,and with a very sharp guy like Surya B thapa that is a possibility,he will go down in history as one of the great kings,if he doesnt then sadly the institution of monarchy will join a list of other organizations that have failed nepal.the king has a lot in stake,and seeing that the ceasefire has held so far.....u never know...... jai nepal |
| bijaya.m | Posted
on 10-Aug-03 02:08 PM
Parmendra ji, Your arguments are theoretically very good but it shows lack of experience and general knowledge of your own country. Nepalese history itself is a very unique one. The then rulers saved our independence from the mighty British Empire by their diplomatic skill they had a vision and courage with national sentimental values. I have seen so many pani and dhul (posted in Kurakani) that the Brahmins have destroyed the culture of Gurung, magars etc. In old times if this type of said atrocities would have been committed there would not have been any other culture left today other than so called Brahmin culture. Gumbas, chaityas, mandirs are everywhere sided by side developing and developed, no one has ever intervened or imposed its religion or culture of others on one another. But in the name of secularism and democracy the anti-national people are trying to destroy Hindu culture as well as the hilly kingdom and kingship of Nepal. What is the position of Sikkim today? Why there was a GKLF movement in Darjeeling? Why Bodo Land and Ashamese problem as well as the Nagas are fighiting for their independence from 1947 up till now. Why! Is India not a republic? Lalu and his queen are not so-called republic democratic monarch? Nepal is situated among two most populous nations of the world. Their major problem is population outburst. India wants to throw some of its population, like the British had thrown their population in Australia and wanted to call aborigines of the original Aurtralians, likewise Indians want to call us aborigines and behave like them? Indian political bureau have grand-design since they got the governing power from the British in 1947. These out side forces are trying to make Nepal unstable without arousing patriotic feelings thats why the people like you are playing in their hands? Only denouncing the king of Nepal, history has proven the importance of kingship in Nepal as well as this institution which is the only symbol of national unity, sovereignty and integrity. In the last 13 years the leadership vacuum has clearly established its disadvantage in Nepal. The leadership has not only destroyed the Nepaleese economy but they have destroyed the public sector industries developed by late MBBS as well as infrastructure of development in our country created so far. While you are talking non-sence of a republic, why you do not take into consideration the past knowledge of 13 years and the capabilities of these leaders as well as the parties? India always supports, by all means, this type of leadership (GPK & Makune) in Nepal and advocates for them in their parliament for these so called people of Indian origin. I am not able to understand what is the meaning of Indian origin? We all are of the same region living in Aryavartha. This India of today was a creation of the British. But the grand-design of the Indian rulers wants to make Nepal their satellite like Bhutan and Sikkim. Is this the republic in your envision? And want to create another Lalu or Lallus for Nepal? |
| Rastafariya | Posted
on 10-Aug-03 05:29 PM
Birader Bijaya! What them you is talkin again here? Them Brahmins never no destroy no culchur. That is what them their contribusion is. You is never unnerstanding. Them did everything to save them culchur of Nepal. Them saved all them culchur. Them said that them needs to save them culchur that them started. So them tell other peopal "Yo biraders! we is needs to save culchur we is never let change come to our culchur and our way of ruling." So them told my biraders "Biraders peopal you is not get into government, we is needs to save our culchur. You is work in them fields. Only we and my relatives will be in them goverment. That way we is keep our culchur" Yes from my granfadas time them work hard to save them culchur. Them saved hinduism and them said that other peopal is not good enougf to go to them temple. But I is never see no Gumba peopal saying to anybody that them can not enter. In them past 13 years them peopal in themocracy was busy preserving culchur! Them was busy takin turns being them Prime Ministers and them Ministers and Sachivs and them still busy doing that. Them had to eat them whole Lauda and stuff. Birader, Bijaya you is not even know how them tried very very hard to preserve the culchur when him Lainsingh Bangdel came to Kathmandu. You is not even know history. You is needs to look and see how them your biraders tried to kill (politically) this Lainsingh Bangdel because this poor birader was trying to change da culchur. You is needs to go back and ask your fada and grandfada. |
| bijaya.m | Posted
on 10-Aug-03 06:42 PM
Rfariya, You want to govern the country, democratically or according to your opinion? Why the ruling leaders, opposition leaders, maobadi leaders all are from your own bahun biraders? Even in India Nehru used to write himself pundit. Mr. Bajpayee is also from the bahun biraders. What about Lain Singh Wangdel, whom I knew personally? I dont know what you are talking about. Who wanted to kill him and why? Is it in your dreams or you want to spread hatred among the Nepalese themselves to weaken the country for fulfillment of outside interest? Why you want to impose your views undemocratically? Do you want to reveal your real motto behind your example? What type of achievement you want to gain? A country is very dear for every national regardless race, cast and creed. You are neglecting the history. You need to understand that divided nation will not be able to preserve its sovereignty or its integrity and keep people united. I dont want to play games with your centered vision and expressions. Thanks. |
| Rastafariya | Posted
on 10-Aug-03 07:10 PM
Birader Bijaya! Yes you is say that I is undemocratic. Yes them Country was very dear to them leaders of yours for last 13 years. Them take turn by turn to become them Ministers. Them all take their turns making them big big houses and big big bank balances. Yes I think them your ministers is governing them country for last 13 years themocratically. Yes them always never divide I and I. Yes them always told I and I we is not be divided nasion. We is all Nepali same same. We is equal peopal it is just that you peopal just work them fields while we govern. Yes you is right Birader Bijaya them was so united them country all them Panchayat peopal was so united. All of them was united and them related from them Ministers to Sachivs. Nothin difference than them United of them Rana times. Birader Bijaya! I is never heard no peopal called Lainsingh Wangdel. I is only know him Bangdel. When I is said them try to kill him . You is not read them ( politically)? That is what I is not unnerstand birader Bijaya. When I and I say them truth them peopal like you is say I is divided. I is undemocratic. Only them ministers of yours is democratic. As for them GNLF you is not know no s... birader Bijaya. You is not know no nothing birader. You is needs to go and talk to them Pundit baje of yours or them Purohit peopal of yours whom them governing da country themocratically always united. |
| prawin | Posted
on 10-Aug-03 08:03 PM
i have to disagree with bijaya.m Rastafariya, you speak sense, though not many will digest it. there is nothing more poignant when a person making an argument incriminates himself. i quote you: "You are neglecting the history. You need to understand that divided nation will not be able to preserve its sovereignty or its integrity and keep people united." precisely! when people blame the generic Bahun or the Pahade [i am both], they are actually very much on target. PN Shah is no hero to me. No king in history has done anything else but farm for his own interests. it is a mere accident that a nation was created--whatever flag, whatever culture the people would have been subjugated by in late 1700, they would still have spawned enough to survive to this day. and the needs of the day are stark: equality and opportunity for all. the very "culture" that people harp about is opposed to this demand of the day. |
| bijaya.m | Posted
on 10-Aug-03 09:48 PM
Mr.Parvin, Your gesture proves that you have no regard for the history of our nation as well as culture, tradition or pride of being a Nepali. What is the point in identifying yourself as bahun and pahadiya when you have no regards for your Nation and its history? Your statement "the very "culture" that people harp about is opposed to this demand of the day" who are the people you are speaking for? Are you trying to prove you are the only modern man of the day? Disagreement for the sake of disagreement is no argument at all. |
| Rastafariya | Posted
on 10-Aug-03 10:36 PM
Birader Bijaya! now you is again. I is already tell you that you is Bahun and keepin up them tradision and them culchur. I is agree totally with you. I is agree that we is needs to keep this culchur of ours. Them peopal is trying to change it them peopal talkin. I is not unnerstand why them peopal tryin to change them culchur of nepal. Them should go back to them fields and leave us do them ruling and do them dictasion. Yes him Pravin have no regards for Nasion. Him should lisen. Him should let them Ministers deside what them wants to do. Him Pravin is undemocratic him talkin against them good leaders. Them leaders have work so hard in last 13 years to make them big big house and hard work of them Lauda Airlines and all. Him not see anything. Him not know about nasional unity. Him not know about nasional ministers Unity. Birader Praveen you is needs to read his story. you is needs to learn Them o cracy. Them peopal take turns in Themocracy. maybe next it is birader Bijayas turun. |
| prawin | Posted
on 11-Aug-03 01:01 PM
parmendra dai-- five maoists and two soldiers died overnight in a shootout. it seems the ceasefire isn't really there. Bijaya m-- please get the spelling of my name right. i am touchy about that. what part of history are you talking about? give me specific instances in history that you think worth defending, and i will give you my take on it. i am not entirely ignorant of Nepali history. in fact, it is because i know it that i feel disgusted. i welcome you to initiate the dscussion. a bit of contemporary history--the Janai Purnima holiday has been restored. now, i call this an act of regression. i'd be glad to hear your take on it. |
| bijaya.m | Posted
on 11-Aug-03 02:31 PM
Parwin (got it right this time) ji, Please read my posting on the following thread if you like to know more about the history, then we can discuss about it. http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/openThread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=11865#36020 |
| Rastafariya | Posted
on 11-Aug-03 04:49 PM
Birader Bijaya! You wants I to write or not? You is never answer my writings. If you wants I not to write you is just let I know. |
| bijaya.m | Posted
on 11-Aug-03 06:14 PM
Mr. RF, I have already made an excuse that I do not want to play games with you. I find you everywhere in kurakani. It is beyond my capacity to reach everywhere like you. I appreciate your ability and zeal. There is nothing against you. Take it easy. Thanks. |
| Rastafariya | Posted
on 12-Aug-03 07:29 AM
Birader Bijaya! First thing is that I is not Mr. I is a birader. I is never play no games. I is not have them blood to play games. I is simpal peopal. I is play football, Valliball,krikette etc but here I is not play no games. I is just come and talks. |
| Sadabichar | Posted
on 12-Aug-03 05:07 PM
(Excerpts from vernacular weeklies) A king means the king of a country. If the king belongs to the country, saying somebody as royalist and others as not royalists would demean the importance of the king. The prevalence of the King is all the more clear with those, who are demanding for republic, want to talk to the King, and the agitating political parties have also put their demands before the King. So, it does not suit to the present political situation to call somebody as of the King's side and others as anti. (Dhruba Kumar Deuja in Janbhawana weekly, August 4) The first and foremost priority of the country is to establish a sustainable peace. It would mean nothing what type of government is formed until the fear of terror is removed. It is nothing but the mal-fide intention of the parliamentary parties to put the peace talks as a condition. (Editorial in Dibyadarshan, August 2) The peace talk is not a personal matter of the government or the Maoists. This should be of equal concern to the political parties. The people's agenda is also peace, democracy and progress. The political parties have also given importance to these things, but the people should sense that peace is the priority of the political parties. Until the political parties make the people feel, it would be difficult for the present agitation to achieve the objectives. Therefore, the political parties should seek their roles in the peace talks and take a broader perspective to save the country from any possible accident. (Editorial in Dristi weekly, August 5) The leaders, who were at the helm of power alternately and looted the state coffer, are the ones to take the hard-earned democracy to its deathbed. It was their conducts, which cast a dark shadow on the whole structure of the country. (Dharmaratna Shakya in Samata weekly, August 5) Piyush Bahadur Amatya converted the mortuary like spot in Pokhara into a deluxe five-star hotel. His effort to generate economic activity in that spot is certainly praise-worthy. It is natural for him to take loans from the banks to run that massive project, and there is equal possibility for the investment of the investment. But the tourists decreased which was beyond the ability of Amatya. The result was the resort could not make income and the loans remained unpaid. Despite the situation being clear the state machinery is bracing to encourage the CIAA to take action against Amatya. Why? (Devendra Gautam in Naya Current weekly, August 5) First of all the Maoist problem should be solved. This is the biggest problem. Look at the village how many problems are there. But nobody is giving attention to it. The people have become helpless. They are not for or against anyone - neither to the Maoists nor to the political parties. Although democracy is the best form of governance, the people have got nothing. Those who were in power just fulfilled their petty, personal and partisan interests. (Mrigendra Prasad Singh, Vice chairman of Nepal Sadhvabana Party in Ruprekha weekly, August 5) Nepal Congress president Girija Prasad Koirala is known in the Nepali politics as the one whose speeches and statements leads to nowhere. His statements have now become laughable, absurd and controversial. He expressed his latest foolishness when he said on Sunday that the letter sent by Prachanda was also a part of the grand design of the Royal Palace. (Nispakchha weekly, August 5) |
| tick | Posted
on 13-Aug-03 06:32 PM
Indian Ambassador trying to fulfill Bastola's request (NCs), read more http://sajha.com/sajha/html/openThread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=11865#35626 Here is a copy-n-paste from BBC /Nepali site 8-13-03 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *Indian ambassador to Nepal Mr Shyam Sharan has emphasized the importance of the participation of the political parties in the peace process. His comments came just a day after the date and venue for the third round of peace talks between the government and the Maoist rebels have been announced. Shushil Sharma reports from Kathmandu. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| Biswo | Posted
on 13-Aug-03 08:11 PM
>The monarchy remains quite a popular > institution, especially amidst all the instability. Paramendraji, Unfortunately that is not the truth of the current Nepal. Monarch was the popular institution a few years ago, not now. In Janakpur, in Biratnagar, in Bhairahawa, in Pokhara, in Solukhumbu, in Baglung, in Villages, in Cities, people don't like Gyanendra and his son, Paras. In fact, they don't even want to talk about him. It is the elites of Kathmandu who are trying to create an impression that the king is still liked by the masses. The king has no followings in villages anymore. The old people are not just convinced that he wasn't culprit in palace massacre. When I told them about my belief(that he is innocent), people would laugh at me.Such an entrenched is the suspicion,and the king has done nothing to dispel those clouds of suspicions. |
| nepalichora | Posted
on 14-Aug-03 09:18 AM
It is good to know that political awareness is growing in the villages. Regardless of the belief that the king is guilty among the villages he IS the only hope that can lead the country out of the current mess. Kathmandu elite?? Are you talking to me?? :-) |
| bijaya.m | Posted
on 14-Aug-03 01:51 PM
Mr.Biswo, As you have stated "It is the elites of Katmandu who are trying to create an impression&" in your posting. At least "the elites" of Nepal started to think for their country and realize what price we have paid in these 13 years in the name of democracy? RAW is very active in Nepal. India always blames ISI presence in Nepal but the pages of history clearly indicates how they are operating in Nepal. If you are not biased please let us know who is a most popular leader than the king in Nepal, today? Will you please? Late King whose family was destroyed was the very subject of hatred shown by the Indian government. They put a blockade and tried to destabilize Nepal, financing and supporting the NC at that time. Wife of Ganesh Man Singh, Mangala Singh had publicly confessed that India had asked Ganesh Man Singh (in Delhi) to be the president of Nepal before the so called revolution started in 1990. God knows RAW is behind the killing & plot engineered or not in this pretext?? The late kings opposition in not stamping (approving) the proposed anti-constitution bill passed by the house to amend the prevailing citizenship law was also a major factor of their dismay. NC and UML jointly passed the bill twice and sent for the kings approval just like a finance bill (with less national importance). |
| bipin | Posted
on 14-Aug-03 05:43 PM
>The monarchy remains quite a popular > institution, especially amidst all the instability. Paramendraji, Unfortunately that is not the truth of the current Nepal. Monarch was the popular institution a few years ago, not now. ==== I don't know who is popular in Nepal. Certainly, it is not Koirala. Check out the following polls: 86% want Koirala to "retire:" Polls on: Should GPK retire from politics?: http://www.nepalnews.com/ |
| Biswo | Posted
on 14-Aug-03 06:38 PM
Since when are online polls considered scientific? Let's not fool ourselves, shall we? |
| bipin | Posted
on 14-Aug-03 07:31 PM
Well, ParmendraJi said King is popular, and you asserted that is not "the truth" and declared: he used to be, but not any more. How is it more scientific than, say, more than 1000 Internet savvy elites who (selectively) voted to say Koirala must retire? It is a chat line, and so let's not try to make it too seriously scientific. OK? |
| paramendra | Posted
on 15-Aug-03 02:36 PM
Thapap You have offered a realpolitic analysis of some of the monarch's moves. He is very much active. This is no "constitutional" monarch. Jaya Nepal Your critique of the post-1990 democracy is to the point. But I disagree with the conclusion you draw. That we should perhaps go back to the pre-1990 era. That King G's activism is a good thing. The solution is more, not less democracy. I believe. Bardan If Madhav Nepal -- and I am no fan of his -- is an opportunist, what is Surya Bahadur Thapa! It is the process of appointment that is suspect. The debate about personalities is only secondary. Your critique of GP Koirala is apt. His inflexibility laid to much parliamentary chaos in the 1990s. He lacks basic political skills of compromise and make deals. His my way or highway has cost the nation much needed political energy. But you have got to admire his guts when it comes to standing up for democracy. So much so that he actually feels irrelevant once that goal gets achieved. I don't know how exactly the ceasefire came about, but it was a major achievement, no doubt. Bijaya.M Your broad strokes could be better served with some specificity. What are you, an apologist for the Brahministic hegemony? India is a republic, and it has its problems, but an activist monarch is not one of them. The facts speak for themselves. Much development work was done in the 1990s. Democracy is no symphony, but a cacophony. That is how it works, through voices of dissent. That "noise" is democracy working, not the opposite. MBBS was a villain. How can you describe him any other way? You have come up with a really weird definition of "republic." It speaks more of Indophobia than anything a "republic" ever meant. I suggest you call a spade a spade rather than a republic. Your question, so tell me, which leader is more popular than the king himself --- that question is a problem. "Rajniti nai garna chha bhane shree pench phukalera aau." That rings true today. A constitutional monarch is supposed to stay "constitutional." Acitivism is not on his plate. He has to accept that circumcision. Obviously, you are an apologist for the Panchayat era. For MBBS. For the monarch. For Indophobial. And your anti-Terai sentiment seeps through what you have to say about the citizenship bill. 33 lakh legitimate Nepalis have been denied citizenship certificates. That is the government figure. Is that unfair or what? |
| paramendra | Posted
on 15-Aug-03 02:51 PM
Rastafariya I guess you have your own unique style. Rastaman! Hit the nail, hard. Prawin Apt comment on the "culture" of the day. Prawin. Probably a low level conflict continues. But officially it is otherwise. You have a major point. Sadabichar Interesting quotes. Tick -- tock, tic. Biswo Biswo, I welcome your disagreeing observation, and I hope you are right. Either way, a referendum has to be held on the republic issue. Nepalichora The king as the only hope? Time for prayers then? Bipin Koirala is not popular. But that does not mean the king is. Besides, we can not compare them, unless the king were to renouce his crown and join the political fray. Talk of personalities is fine, but that is secondary. The primary concern is the democratic process has been derailed. (Wireless internet access ko kamaal !) |
| bipin | Posted
on 15-Aug-03 06:10 PM
Paramandra write: "Bipin Koirala is not popular. But that does not mean the king is." You are stating obvious. Unpopularity of Koirala and the leaders like him is hurting growth of democracy in Nepal. Parties are suffering too. And, it has allowed KG to take over power without much opposition. "Besides, we can not compare them, unless the king were to renouce his crown and join the political fray." You may not compare them, but people are. And, they are sitting on the sidelines. It is not good for democracy, if I might add. " Talk of personalities is fine, but that is secondary. The primary concern is the democratic process has been derailed. " Perosnalities do matter. They can hurt parties. Clinton's escapade did hurt the democratic party in the US. Koirala must go to make a room for the new leadership. Your talk of renouncing the crown is well what can I say! It makes it a good chat line excitement, but has a very little bearing on the ground reality. Even Maoists are backing off on it. But then, it is your view..feel free to express them... BG |
| Rastafariya | Posted
on 15-Aug-03 09:23 PM
Hey Peopal! What them you is talkin? You peopal read too many them books and them Gorkhapaatra and them editor peopal writings. Them not good biraders. I is go and them talks to to them Taxidriver biraders all them time. Them Santey Tamang, Parsuram Tamang etc. Them funny thing is some them woh read them Gorkhapaatra say different and some who them dont read say difference. Then I is go and talks to them peopal who them read Rising Nepal too. Maaan! them too complicasion. Them peopal who them thinks benifits from him Majesty say him is so popular and only way out for them country. Them biraders who is frustrasion with them King and them corrupsion Ministers and Sachivs think that them Maobadi is them only way out. Not realiziasation that them Maobadis is them same peopal too. Them Gorkhapatra peopal who them love to do namastey to them Ministers thinks them Democracy is them very importance and them only Ministers can make it live like them past 13 years. So I is think them there is no quesion of them popular who is. Them all popular peopal. Him King is Great. Them Ministers is great. Them Maobaadis is great. Birader peopal Wake up and Live! Go down da river and feel them water. Dont just lisen to da sound of da river. |
| bijaya.m | Posted
on 16-Aug-03 12:32 PM
Mr. Parmendra (Bhagat), Biswo (&..), I am quite apologetic for the Brahmin hegemony and atrocities committed towards my people from India. You must be quite right in that aspect. Go and ask your elders when Indian army entered in our country they not only looted but they committed mass rapes even in Kathmandu, in gaucharan now international airport, in Thankot, in Patan tundikhel openly chasing young women who were going to fetch water or to work in the fields. Mr. Nehru and Koirala brothers all from Brahmin society has committed gravest crime in history. They looted the golden pinnacles, ornaments, jewels, precious stones from many temples. Nehru sent thirty-first and thirty-second division of Bangal Rifels under the disguise of revolutionary forces, to invade Nepal. The late King MBBS not only kicked the Indian military (so called revolutionary forces) out but established diplomatic ties with outer world. At the time of Ranas we had ambassadorial level diplomatic ties with very few countries like US and great Britain. I have already expressed my views in this kurakani; glimpses of the history, motto, creation and leadership of NC from the beginning to date please those threads if you wish to learn more. A king who not only saved disgrace of the nation and its people, made kodari rajmargh which connected the entire country with the road link otherwise we were forced to go to India to travel within Nepal. He is the man who established road link with China despite great opposition from India. Whenever Nehru visited Nepal he clearly emphasized that Indian northern border is the Himalaya; he deliberately tried to humiliate the Nepalese people. We faced a little trade and transit blockade in MBBss time also but at the time of King Birendra the blockade was done violating international laws and norms for more than one year. Why? To establish a puppet government like GPK's government which has proved by the history and their deeds of these thirteen years. In your views the late king MBBS must be a traitor because he did not handover the kingdom to India and readily accepted the hegemony like Bhutan and annexation of Sikkim. Is it not, so? For your information, democracy means guaranteeing the rights of the people to have their say in the government and the government is formed by the people for the people but long ago Mangala Devi Singh, the wife of late Ganesh Man Singh, after 1990, publicly accepted the truth that New Delhi offered president ship for GN Singh but he refused to accept. Are you making yourself a candidate for the presidency from that side, again? The country has a constitution prepared by the nominees of revolutionary council. Koirala violated it many times without hesitation. He sold Mahakali and said it was only understanding and not a treaty but Supreme Court proved that it was a treaty; he did not resign even in the moral grounds when he had committed such a felony. He had signed a new demarcation of the Nepalese border by which India has already grabbed a big chunk of Nepalese territory in many places after 1990. Why? Koirala tried to force and befool the king to pass citizenship amendment bill, wrongfully, twice passed from the house as a finance bill and that is the main reason of massacre of the royals due to a grand-design from RAW. This is also a clear thought in Nepal. Just to divert the attention of their mis-rule, corruption, anti-national, anti-people activities and fulfill the orders of masters in Delhi? Lallu's of India are trying to discredit the king as well as the kingship of Nepal. Without the king or paralyzed kingship it will be in their interest in their masters great interest. In these years of democratic practice more than 100,000 Nepalese-speaking people were pushed out form Bhutan and "your" republic pushed them in Nepal. Why? Why the then government did not object such an act? In India they have a time-frame for Nepalese to get citizenship they only give this right to those who were living in India before 1950. If Nepal will also put that same time frame than I think 99% of the people like you will be debarred and deported to India again. Is it so? Aba dhumpu bajune ki turahai bajune? Tapai ko prajatantra ma yo baja pani bajcha? |
| 8-) | Posted
on 18-Aug-03 03:14 PM
Mr. Bijaya.M, These scoundrels must be punished; of course with a smile. 8-) |
| crazyeyez | Posted
on 18-Aug-03 08:16 PM
USA and India will never let Maoists win. They dont want our neighbors ( read India) to emulate the Socialist govt in Nepal. Even though the left is a minority in India, they dont want Nepal to be a staging ground for future activities. So unless the Maoists reform to the Right , they have no chance. If there is an agreement then the King is still gonna be more powerful. And I think foreign elements are fully backing the status quo. |
| suva chintak | Posted
on 18-Aug-03 09:37 PM
bijaya m. jyu, Very very incisive and insightful analysis of Nepal's political condition. Your take is very objective and historically accurate. And kudos for not being intimidated by the shrill slogans and rhetorics of populism that often passes for objective analysis here in Sajha. Take for example that there are 33 lakh Nepalis in terai who have been denied citizenship? Where do people pull such figures out of the hat to make cheap arguments? Or 33 lakh is a magic number to coincide with the 33 koti devatas? CNAS conducted a research the citizenship issue several terai districts for the past couple of years. The findings indicate that for people who are genuinely Nepali (whether pahadi, terai,himali), the citizenship acquiring process is quite accessible. If these Nepalis do not yet have a card in hand, that is because they have not applied to do so yet. Most rural people do not have a need for a card for most of their lives. Now the problem is with people who migrated to Nepal in the recent decades from India. Should we give them citizenship just because they are already in Nepal? Come on..is that what some folks are arguing for? Even very large countries like the US, India, Canada, China, Russia, Australia can't afford to distribute citizenship to every Tom, Dick, and Harry that somehow manages to come ashore. How do you expect a tiny country that is living next to a billion Indians to keep a open citizenship dispenser? Come on, be real!! So bijaya.m jyu, thank you for speaking up for Nepal! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 19-Aug-03 09:30 AM
Bijay M, I have been following your posts for quite a while now. you certainly seem to be one well versed guy in nepali politics. I too have the same feelings on the issues you raised and on Mahendra. So, please keep on writing, would love to read more. suvachintak: how is the China plan coming along? let us meet for some mao-tai and peking duck in the northern capital next month. |
| suva chintak | Posted
on 20-Aug-03 09:42 AM
Dear IF jyu, The journey to the Middle Kingdom is developing according to plan. Should be there in the last week of Sept. for the international conference on Asian reproductive health. Will spend a few days in Beijing for sightseeing. Is it possible to take a quick train ride (upto 8 hrs) from Beijing to some mountain area nearby? I would love to see their mountains and some of the rural hinterland. Then maybe a day or two in Shanghai to meet a old friend. Will return on Oct 10 or so. So where are you now, in PRC or in KON? When do you get to your university? Let I know your phone # and e-mail asap (this is Rasta vibe!). Let me know your availability during this period. By the way, any ideas about night-life in the city? If capitalism has arrived, can carnal craze be behind? But then the Chinese could always prove me wrong... Mao-tai and Peking duck it shall be, preferably inside the forbidden city! SC, on the silk route |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 20-Aug-03 08:57 PM
Dear SC, I am still in KON. I will be in the Middle Kingdom (Zhong Guo) at the end of this month. I am sure, I will have lots of free time the first 3 months to go around the Forbiden City, ZhongShan GongYuan and Sanlintun Lu. I think 10-12 hrs from Beijing can take you to one of China's most beautiful mountains Huangshan. Biswo, how long does it take to go to either HuangShan or TianShan from Beijing? Nightlife,.. hmm.. you will be surprised. Rest assured, you will have fun.. i'll be taking you to all the happening places! materialism brings with it lots of desires and ways to make money to accumulate more (useless) materials.. and one profession that never fails to earn money is the profession based on lust, desires and craze! :-) I will email you my address and phone no. as soon as I get there.. see you in Beijing (Northern Capital) |
| bijaya.m | Posted
on 21-Aug-03 06:41 AM
Mr. Crazyeyez, Suva Chintak and IF, Thank you for your appreciation and compliments. The democratic history of Nepal is not even worth to talk about and be proud of. In 2016 BS when Congress started ruling the country with absolute majority atrocities on Brahmin and cheatrias started, thousands were made homeless; their houses were burnt and looted. Some of them were forced to become refugees in their own country, small mob of hooligans identifying themselves as Nepali Congress started the atrocities in many parts of country. NC and BP blamed the king for those disturbances like GP/Makune are blaming the king today. Only after bold step taken by the late MBBS with a firm hand saved the country from disaster. We enjoyed peace for a very long time due to him. Despite BP, GPK and others again and again started the so-called armed revolution, while being stationed in India with the blessings and arms from the south block. South block is not satisfied for poor gesture of support and devotion shown by KP Bhattrai, GPK, Makune etc to their masters. They expected much more from these so called democratic leaders, that's why they have again given sanctuary for Maobadis to initiate and operate from India. The situation started going out of their control in India when the extremist started strong collaboration with Nepalese Maobadis. Indian government found evidence of Nepalese Maobadi's involvement in the bomb blast in Jharkhand. Then only Indian government started to check the border to restrict some (not all) of their movement in India. If you see the undiplomatic and unethical remarks made by Indian ambassadors violating all the diplomatic norms and ethics, time to time during this said democratic rule of thirteen years proves how deeply they are involved in Nepalese politics, and are in commanding capacity. The bill to amend the existing citizenship law was also prepared by the Indian embassy and engineered to pass that bill twice from the Nepalese parliament. This was the initial way of the Indian grand-design when they put similar bill in Sikkim parliament accepting the merger of Sikkim to India. If you read the book published by two retired generals naming India's Northern Security (published during 80s). The book has the data furnished by the External Affairs Ministry (of India) which clearly states that in 1980 six million people were already migrated form India to Nepal and four million people had already received Nepali citizenship. According to them two million people had not received the citizenship due to regression by the government of Nepal (panchayat era). In that very book it is clearly mentioned that every year at the rate of three lack people are migrating to Nepal. From time to time this question was raised in Indian parliament as well. They were quite sentimental in expressing their pain for the regression of their subjects in Nepal and some MPs demanded direct Indian intervention. Now tell me brother if this figure is true than how much citizenship we will have to give to the Indians every year? When they have put a clear bar on Nepalese, they only give the citizenship right to those Nepalese who stayed in India before 1950 only but Nepalese are facing the demand of openly distributing Nepalese citizenship to Indians by these so called leaders internally and externally from dictators in Delhi. GP KP every one of these so-called leaders are bonafied Indian citizens. GP was born in Bihar, KP Bhattrai was born in Baneras they have even the birth right to call themselves Indians, which was clearly expressed by then Indian ambassador that Banaresi Babu (KP Bhattrai) is a gift from Indian people to Nepal. Lendup Dorge a royal family member of Sikkim was promised (by Indian) to make him the first president of Sikkim after finishing the monarchy instead of it they annexed Sikkim forcefully and Deorje was forced to be silent after surrendering against the Indian might. India is exploiting the oil from Assam and completely neglected the locals. They are not ready to give the right of plebiscite democratically to Naga people who are fighting since 1947 (after British rule). Why India is not giving freedom to its own people to live democratically if it is a real democracy, is beyond my imagination. It is proving that India wants to rule the region like imperial power. Dear brothers Nepal is in great crisis, if we are not careful we may loose our freedom and sovereignty very easily. We have become the prey internally as well as externally. While talking about democracy and republic we will one day be in the position of Bhutanese-Nepalese kicked out from Bhutan, booted out from India and pushed inside Nepal. Nepalese faced the similar fate when they were thrown out from Assam, brutally. In this historical pretext I wonder where we Nepalese might end up after being kicked out from our own country. Thanks. |
| 8-) | Posted
on 21-Aug-03 10:09 AM
Bijaya.M Jyu, I really appreciate your analysis which you have proved with historical facts. I had noticed that Indian infiltration has crossed all its limits; I do not know what can be done to stop it. These leaders that represent the Nepali people are so corrupt that they have already sold their souls. May Pashupatinath be kind on us and guide us out of the current mess. India is making all the moves and the economy as well as people are suffering and dying. It is very troubling, some how we need to stop the decisions that are being in Delhi in the name of Nepali people. Thank you. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 21-Aug-03 11:06 AM
bijaya.m, you have given a new dimension to this thread. I enjoyed reading your view. I wish you could provide more specific references to make your arguments more authentic. I will continue to read your POV. Bring them on. |
| suva chintak | Posted
on 21-Aug-03 11:37 AM
IF jyu, I am glad to know that you are one happy camper and ready to do China with me! It will be my privilege to be in a journey in China with one of the few Nepali who speaks Chinese and understands it history and politics. I couldn't have asked for a better guide and company in that wonderful land of the hidden dragon, crouching tiger! So do send me your e-mail and tel # once you land in the northern capital (by the way, which is the southern capital?). I will update you with my travel specifics. But right now, I arrive there for reproductive health conference on the Sept. 27th. We will be done with this jaw-breaking task by the 4th of Oct. Then my plan was to head into the mountains in Central China for 2-3 days. Then get to Shanghai, the Whore of the East, to say 'Farewell, My Concubine' for another 1-2 days and return to the US of A on the 12th. Does that seem like a doable thing to you? Since you are the expert on this, you are free to suggest an alternative itinerary. While up in the mountains, I was planning a quick trip to the Inner Mongolian grasslands. I looked in the maps and it seems doable. It has been my dream to take a horse in the wide open plains and ride into the sunset with Genghis Khan's grand daughter in my saddle. They say there are still plenty around in that part of the world. Afterwards, just lounge in the sheep skin tent while she prepares the famed mongolian hotpot. Does it sound interesting? I am glad the nightlife hasn't been extinguished by the party zealots! After all, what would Maoism be without materialism? I wonder if we could find some enthusiastic Red Guards to do reenactments of Mao's Cultural Revolution! I would love to bury my right deviationist pal into some Red Cadre's lily pond...the capitalist pig could certainly benefit from a lesson or two from the true path of Marxism-Leninism- Maoism. Such hot dippings will perhaps finally convince the filthy scum to let go of its greed, ego, and lust that has enslaved mankind by the groins ever since the happy days of primitive communism ended. By the way, I have been flipping through some Let's Go/Lonely Planet travel guides to China to plan the trip. Is that useful, or do you suggest I read something else? China, here we come! SC, the Gorkhali traveller |
| NepaliChora | Posted
on 21-Aug-03 07:27 PM
SC jyu, I guess you did not read the note that asks users not to post personal messages, here it is for you. Copy-n-paste for your information. DO NOT use the forum for personal messages that should have been sent through emails. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 22-Aug-03 09:54 AM
Bipin True, GP Koirala has to take much personal blame for the chaos and the corruption of the 1990s, but that does not discredit democracy as a system. No corruption by any "democratic" leader exceeds the amount of money now getting transferred to the royal palace after the Chand government doubled the budget for royal affairs. Rastafariya "Them all popular peopal. Him King is Great. Them Ministers is great. Them Maobaadis is great." LOL. Rastaman. Bijaya.M The ties that MBBS established, don't you think a BP Koirala would have done the same, even better? It is world politics. The world was getting more opened up at the time. Any chief executive would have done similar things. MBBS built Kodari Rajmarga? More roads got built since 1990 than during the previous three centuries. If Nepal had been a democracy since 1960, the country would have been much better off by now. Mahendra was a villain who usurped democracy. No other description fits him. Madan Bhandari was quite a nationalist, definitely more so than MBBS. Well, guess what. Bhandari could not have come forth to any position of leadership during the Panchayat. Don't try to teach me what democracy means, you MahendraBhakta. It is not possible that a MahendraBhakta can have any idea of what democracy is all about. The 1989 blockade was a good thing. It helped get rid of the Panchayat. You suffer from a disease: it is called Indophobia. It is Nepal's dumb luck to be sitting next to India. I am no GP Koirala fan. Just to clear things up for you. I think he is a mediocre person at best. He should have retired in 1991. "Koirala tried to force and befool the king to pass citizenship amendment bill, wrongfully, twice passed from the house as a finance bill and that is the main reason of massacre of the royals due to a grand-design from RAW." A citizenship bill is needed so as to provide citizenship certificates to the 33 lakh Nepalis who have wrongly been denied the same. Why do you oppose it? So now it is RAW that was behind the massacre!? Dipendra was on RAW's payroll? "Lallu's of India .." You are no big fan of Laloo Yadav, are you? Why? Because he says, "Bhu Ra Ba L saaf karo!" Bhumihar, Rajput, Babhan, Lala. All except one Indian premier since independence have been Brahmins. That is a statement on the unfair social order. "In these years of democratic practice more than 100,000 Nepalese-speaking people were pushed out form Bhutan and "your" republic pushed them in Nepal. " Your sympathies are with the southern Bhutanese and not with the Nepalis in the south! Go naked, yo Emperor! And so, India is MY repulbic? It is jackas_es like you who are the reason Nepal needs a federal form of government. That is the only way out for dignity for the Terai. Dumb A-s. So stupid as- Bahadurs like you feels like they OWN Nepal!? "India is exploiting the oil from Assam and completely neglected the locals." Your sympathies are more with the Indians in India and the Bhutanese in Bhutan than with the Nepalis in southern Nepal. Obviously "Nepali" is a cultural term for you, not something legal or political. crazyeyez Looks like there is a lot of foreign penetration going on in the remote hills of Nepal. As Indira Gandhi used to say everytime something went wrong: "Is mein bideshiyon ka haat hai." suva chintak The 33 lakh figure. That is the HMG figure, and it is not just people in the Terai. You live in a world where a Madhesi is half Indian. And so you have a hard time distinguishing. You look quite "Indian" yourself, like the Indians of Darjeeling. IF Another MahendraBhakta adding to the chorus. Looks like IF and SC are pimping right here at Sajha. Goes in tune with your prejudices that you put forth as "deshbhaktee." The Indophobia and anti-Terai sentiments that pass for nationalism. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 22-Aug-03 09:59 AM
8-) One spokesperson in Bijaya.M for so many other wannabes! sparsha Such a blank check for Biajaya.M! My problem is not that some of you are suggesting India acts like a regional bulley. That is a big and separate topic. And it has to be discussed on its own merits. My problem is that you mix that topic with the Terai. So if India is "guilty" the Madhesis are guilty by association! And that prejudice shall be countered. |
| 8-) | Posted
on 22-Aug-03 10:30 AM
Parmendra, You are not more than a bullie here I quote (you have learned this trait from your masters?) >So stupid as- Bahadurs like you feels like they OWN Nepal!? Who the heck you think you are? You think you own terai? Who do you think you are to speak for the people of Nepal? yeah you got that right, there are many more king fans than you can imagine. I am for monarchy and I am against the |
| 8-) | Posted
on 22-Aug-03 10:36 AM
Parmendra, You are not more than a bully here I quote (you have learned this trait from your masters?) >So stupid as- Bahadurs like you feels like they OWN Nepal!? Who the heck you think you are? You think you own terai or Nepal to use idiotic tone of yours against a Nepali? Who do you think you are to speak for the people of Nepal? Yeah you got that right, there are many more monarch fans than you can imagine. I am for monarchy and I am against the dalals like BP, GPK and might have to include you in that category from now on. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 22-Aug-03 10:36 AM
MBBS built Kodari Rajmarga? More roads got built since 1990 than during the previous three centuries. If Nepal had been a democracy since 1960, the country would have been much better off by now. Mahendra was a villain who usurped democracy. Come on, Parmedra.. is this coming from YOU? You can do a much BETTER job and not make a joker out of yourself in public forums like this with such stupid lines. True, more roads were built in the last 10 years, but hey, none compare to the Kodari rajmarga because the road symbolizes Nepal's INDEPENDENT foreign policy. So, in a way, the construction of that highway was a powerful message to India that hey we don't wnat you to be interfaring in our matters and as an independent nation state we can establish air/road link with any nation we deem fit. Just as general Charles deGaulle's decision to withdraw from the Atlantic Alliance made France the first European nation after the WWII to openly challenge the American hegemony, King Mahendra's decision regarding the highway was an open challenge to the Indian hegemony in Nepal. With the construction of the highway, we regained our INDEPENDENT nation status which was lost after the Treaty of Sughauli and 2007 Saal. Also, Democracy isn't just electing people to the parliament. Borth Hitler and Mussolini came to power by winning the elctions!! Now, just because they were elected does not mean, and I emphasize, does not mean they were democrats. So, you are forgetting that in democracy undemocratic people too have equal chances to rise up and destroy the basic democratic framework and that's what happened and is happening in Nepal. Come on, you can talk about Nepali democracy this and that cruisng down the American freeways and tollwas drinkking your Budwieser or Miller draft, but to understand and experience the destruction and chaos that democracy brough with it in Nepal, you have to come to Nepal and live here. Then only you'll understand why the majority of the Nepal's population supports the King. About the Indians living in Nepal: Hey, don't forget how Sikkim was annexed. That's why the Late King rejected the citizenship bill. The constitution of Nepal says that election areas/constitunecies are to be decided according to the population of the area. Now, the mire population you have, the more election constituencies you have.. and if the King had agreed to that, in 10-20 eyars, we would have more dhoti wearing/hindi speaking and Indians by birth and Indians by thoughts in the Parliament and one of them would become Lendup Dorje and merge Nepal with India. Samajh rahe hai na aap, meri baat? Also get this in your head: Being a nationalist does not mean, I emphasize does not make oneself an Indophobic. India is our neighbor and there's no way we can send India to the middle of nowhere.. its just not possible. India will be there, and Nepal will be there and we will have to have a good relations with India in EQUAL TERMS. We certainly do not like the Indian attitude and to be perfectlly frank and honest, the Indian governmnet, through its policies created a pool in Nepal who just fear everything Indian. Its not the Nepali government and King Mahendra, its your's lovely Indian government and Indira Gandhi who turned the majority of Nepali people anti Indian. Anyway, pachi lekhaula aaru.. PS: Remember, one man's hero is another man's villian. Just because you don't like Mahendra does not mean,w e all have to follow you and do wah-wah to you all the time. Remember to accept the other point of view, if you really wnat to get involved in the american or nepali politics. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 22-Aug-03 10:38 AM
MBBS built Kodari Rajmarga? More roads got built since 1990 than during the previous three centuries. If Nepal had been a democracy since 1960, the country would have been much better off by now. Mahendra was a villain who usurped democracy. Come on, Parmedra.. is this coming from YOU? You can do a much BETTER job and not make a joker out of yourself in public forums like this with such stupid lines. True, more roads were built in the last 10 years, but hey, none compare to the Kodari rajmarga because the road symbolizes Nepal's INDEPENDENT foreign policy. So, in a way, the construction of that highway was a powerful message to India that hey we don't wnat you to be interfaring in our matters and as an independent nation state we can establish air/road link with any nation we deem fit. Just as general Charles deGaulle's decision to withdraw from the Atlantic Alliance made France the first European nation after the WWII to openly challenge the American hegemony, King Mahendra's decision regarding the highway was an open challenge to the Indian hegemony in Nepal. With the construction of the highway, we regained our INDEPENDENT nation status which was lost after the Treaty of Sughauli and 2007 Saal. Also, Democracy isn't just electing people to the parliament. Borth Hitler and Mussolini came to power by winning the elctions!! Now, just because they were elected does not mean, and I emphasize, does not mean they were democrats. So, you are forgetting that in democracy undemocratic people too have equal chances to rise up and destroy the basic democratic framework and that's what happened and is happening in Nepal. Come on, you can talk about Nepali democracy this and that cruisng down the American freeways and tollwas drinkking your Budwieser or Miller draft, but to understand and experience the destruction and chaos that democracy brough with it in Nepal, you have to come to Nepal and live here. Then only you'll understand why the majority of the Nepal's population supports the King. About the Indians living in Nepal: Hey, don't forget how Sikkim was annexed. That's why the Late King rejected the citizenship bill. The constitution of Nepal says that election areas/constitunecies are to be decided according to the population of the area. Now, the mire population you have, the more election constituencies you have.. and if the King had agreed to that, in 10-20 eyars, we would have more dhoti wearing/hindi speaking and Indians by birth and Indians by thoughts in the Parliament and one of them would become Lendup Dorje and merge Nepal with India. Samajh rahe hai na aap, meri baat? Also get this in your head: Being a nationalist does not mean, I emphasize does not make oneself an Indophobic. India is our neighbor and there's no way we can send India to the middle of nowhere.. its just not possible. India will be there, and Nepal will be there and we will have to have a good relations with India in EQUAL TERMS. We certainly do not like the Indian attitude and to be perfectlly frank and honest, the Indian governmnet, through its policies created a pool in Nepal who just fear everything Indian. Its not the Nepali government and King Mahendra, its your's lovely Indian government and Indira Gandhi who turned the majority of Nepali people anti Indian. Anyway, pachi lekhaula aaru.. PS: Remember, one man's hero is another man's villian. Just because you don't like Mahendra does not mean,w e all have to follow you and do wah-wah to you all the time. Remember to accept the other point of view, if you really wnat to get involved in the american or nepali politics. |
| 8-) | Posted
on 22-Aug-03 10:48 AM
Parmendra, It is not against professional drivers. I respect them for what they do however truck driving and intellectual discussion does not go together. Pay attention on where you are going, drive your truck and make sure not to cut cars. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 22-Aug-03 11:01 AM
>I respect them for what they do however >truck driving and intellectual discussion >does not go together. Hey, Mr 8-), Is this your logic? It only shows you how ignorant, bigoted, and silly you are. We don't know what you do. May be you are a burglar, may be you are a hustler, may be you are a professor, do we care that here? We don't. And frankly go and check some of the websites of famous persons. I once ran into a professor of computer science in Georgia Tech. He went to drive truck before starting his professional activity. One famous prof in Berkeley once drove public bus in San Francisco[or in Seattle?]. I always respect Paramendra, despite some of our differences, for his intellectual ability, and will continue to do so. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 22-Aug-03 11:11 AM
"sparsha Such a blank check for Biajaya.M! " Paramendra, What blank check? |
| czar | Posted
on 22-Aug-03 11:27 AM
Driving trucks doesn't impair anyone's thinking abilities. Now if some here don't like Parmendra's ideas, then argue them till you're blue in the face. But don't lets hear nasty cracks about excluding anyone discussions based on what they do for a living. There is such a concept of the dignity of labor. I respect anyone who puts in a a hard day's work, be it the janitor or the CEO. We as a people need to let go of the feudal mind and instead appreciate and encourage people's abilities and contributions. What Parmendra does for a living has nothing to do with what he contributes to the discussions here. Mind you, I dont agree with some things he says, but he has every right to speak his mind here. Just like everyone else. |
| suva chintak | Posted
on 22-Aug-03 03:03 PM
Parmendra jyu, I have read many of your thoughtful postings here in Sajha. Even if I did not agree to some of your conclusions, I often admired your arguments. But this now was a little bit of a let down. It was not the debate of an intellectual, but of a rabble rouser! Let me explain: You say "True, GP Koirala has to take much personal blame for the chaos and the corruption of the 1990s, but that does not discredit democracy as a system. No corruption by any "democratic" leader exceeds the amount of money now getting transferred to the royal palace after the Chand government doubled the budget for royal affairs." First, the system must take responsibility for allowing such leaders to be selected and elected into positions of power. These leaders like GP were not imposed on the people by the bad bad kings, he came through the good, good 'democratic system.' Now don't you think the system is at fault if the same corrupt guy gets elected to be the prime minister for five times in 10 years? A system that can not ensure/select the best personnel is a failure. Second, the palace now gets about Rs. 60 crore/year. You say that is more than the amount taken by corruption. Where do you get these figures or what kind of maths do you do? The Dhamija scam (at the behest of your beloved leader GP Koirala and his suputri Sujata Jost) alone cost the country US $ 23 million! If you care to translate that into Nepali currency, it should be around Rs. 145 crore! That is just one scam among the dozens! (By the way, the Rs. 60 crore palace budget also pays the salary of around 450 palace staff from the peons to the sachibs...and all the maintenance work, that is another issue). |
| suva chintak | Posted
on 22-Aug-03 03:25 PM
Parmendra says: "The ties that MBBS established, don't you think a BP Koirala would have done the same, even better? It is world politics. The world was getting more opened up at the time. Any chief executive would have done similar things. " Not really. BP was more than happy to have Nepal as another Indian protectorate states like Sikkim and Bhutan. It was Mahendra who wanted to break out of that straitjacket and establish diplomatic relations with China and the rest of the world. Parmendra says: MBBS built Kodari Rajmarga? More roads got built since 1990 than during the previous three centuries. If Nepal had been a democracy since 1960, the country would have been much better off by now. Mahendra was a villain who usurped democracy." Who else built Kodari? You are not suggesting that Nehuru Laloo Yadav built it are you? And about the democracy thing, we know how much we developed in the last 13 years. God help us if we had that kind of development for the last 40 years...why, Nepal might already be in the moon if that was case. Happily we are still here. Parmendra says: Madan Bhandari was quite a nationalist, definitely more so than MBBS. Well, guess what. Bhandari could not have come forth to any position of leadership during the Panchayat. " Parmendra, hate to say this, but you really don't have the credentials to be the judge of of Nepali nationalism, do you? Man, if you had your way, you will give "A+" grade to any Lendup Dorje who manages to sell Nepal to India! So this is definitely out of your competence. Parmendra says: Don't try to teach me what democracy means, you MahendraBhakta." That is not a real argument, but a brawl. What if someone was to turn to you and say: A truck driver should not teach me about democracy or someone else said: "An Indian agent does not need to teach me about Nepali nationalism." I am sure you would not feel very good. And by the way, what is democracy, could you care to elaborate. You seem to have the franchise rights for so democracy, so let's hear from you! Parmendra says: The 1989 blockade was a good thing. It helped get rid of the Panchayat. " OK. Was the Indian occupation of Sikkim in 1975 also a good thing because it got rid of Sikkim's Chogalism (read Panchayat)? More significantly, would Nepal's occupation also be a good thing because it would get rid of the hated monarchy and give the terai people the federalism and the republic package? Parmendra says: You suffer from a disease: it is called Indophobia. It is Nepal's dumb luck to be sitting next to India." Really? Why, then you must be suffering from Nepalphobia. Have you ever tried to understand why there is no Sinophobia, Russophobia, Americaphobia but only Indophobia in Nepal? By the way, Nepalis don't consider it dumb luck to be sitting next to India...where did you get this idea? |
| suva chintak | Posted
on 22-Aug-03 03:45 PM
Parmendra says: A citizenship bill is needed so as to provide citizenship certificates to the 33 lakh Nepalis who have wrongly been denied the same. Why do you oppose it?" Most of the 33 lakh you talk of are not Nepalis, but Indian immigrants. Why do you support them? Mama haru ho kaho? Parmendra says: Your sympathies are with the southern Bhutanese and not with the Nepalis in the south! " Just because people talk of Bhutanese refugees, it does not mean people hate the terai people. Why do you get this automatic rejection in your system? People can sympathy for for the Bhutanese, Teraians, Himalayans, Palestinians, Gays, Lesbians, and the Red Sox at the same time. Your self-centeredness and sympathy hunger hints at a possible abnormal childhood. Feel free to correct me. Parmendra says: And so, India is MY repulbic? It is jackas_es like you who are the reason Nepal needs a federal form of government. That is the only way out for dignity for the Terai." Who gives you the right to speak for the whole terai? Is it your mama's birta or what? My ancestors toiled this land before your grand father trekked over the border to escape the back-breaking taxes the East India company had levied on the Bihar peasantry. So get this straight, terari is not yours!! Parmendra says: Dumb A-s. So stupid as- Bahadurs like you feels like they OWN Nepal!?" Why the foul word? Man, that is so like Indian! Now, Nepal is owned by any Bahadur, Prasad, Yadav, Limbu, Magar, Chaurasia, Chaudhary who love it and defend it. Nepal does not belong to anyone, even if Koirala, Shah, Gurung, Bohra, and Bhagat who want to sell it and denigrate it. So that is the ownership status of Nepal. Parmendra says: Your sympathies are more with the Indians in India and the Bhutanese in Bhutan than with the Nepalis in southern Nepal. Obviously "Nepali" is a cultural term for you, not something legal or political." Again this sympathy hunger...when it surfaces again and again over the same issue, makes me think of your childhood experience. Did your parents favor the other siblings? In School, were you jealous of other kids/gals, and you felt you never got what you deserved? How many times do I tell you, Majority of Nepalis from the mountains and hills love their terai brothers and sisters. It is only you psychos who see hatred. Our families and friends are married in terai, we live there, have some of the best friends and neighbors there. Parmendra, just because you had a bad childhood, don't spoil it for us all! Get a life other than hatred, peace man! |
| suva chintak | Posted
on 22-Aug-03 04:01 PM
parmendra jyu says: "suva chintak The 33 lakh figure. That is the HMG figure, and it is not just people in the Terai." Ardha bidhya bhayenkara (half education is a dangerous thing). That figure is the total number of people without citizenship during government surveys. Does that mean they are all Nepalis? No. Does that mean they all want a citizenship? No. During census, all people who are residing in the the area for more than six months are renumerated, whether they are tourists, migrant workers, foreign business men, does not matter. So the 33 lakh people could be Indian laborers, workers, tarkari wallas, merchants, European residents, and Chinese construction laboers. It does not mean they even want to have the citizenship. So why are you insisting on giving them citizenship? Parmendra says: You live in a world where a Madhesi is half Indian. And so you have a hard time distinguishing. You look quite "Indian" yourself, like the Indians of Darjeeling." Pal, if you look at me, I think I look more Hritik Roshan than you would care to admit. But going beyond the looks, many, many Nepalis don't think a Madhesi is half Indian. Why do you think Nepalis are so stupid? We live, work, eat, talk, love with the Madhesi people all the time, don't insult our intelligence. Rather, the fact is people like you who want to be Indian and deny their Nepali roots. When you say you are more proud to be an Indian, what can we do? This is all in your mind. Parmendra says: Another MahendraBhakta adding to the chorus. Looks like IF and SC are pimping right here at Sajha. Goes in tune with your prejudices that you put forth as "deshbhaktee." The Indophobia and anti-Terai sentiments that pass for nationalism." So, how are we pimping? Don't you think that is a rather strong accusation? If you have any intellectual honesty, I would ask you to substantiate your charge. About deshbhaktee, I am proud of it, just as you are proud to be deshbashing. Again, it is you who is trying to equate terai with India and indo-phobia with anti-terai sentiments. I have never seen terai and India as the same thing, nor do I need to bash India for anything. Again, it is your need to be seen as more Indian than Indian to curry favor with the Indians that you say we are Indophobic. I have no grude with India, I can live with it like a man. I wish you could do the same. |
| 8-) | Posted
on 24-Aug-03 08:57 PM
Biswo, >Is this your logic? It only shows you how ignorant, bigoted, and silly you are. We don't know what you do. May be you are a burglar, may be you are a hustler, may be you are a professor, do we care that here? We don't. Name calling game is fun isnt it? I also have some very cheap names for people like you. But I do not want to be like you. Read my comments properly, I was referring to Parmendras arrogant and ignorant statement. I had appreciated some of your writings though I sharply differ from it. Did not know you belong in the same category. Birds of same feather flock together. When a crow crows for help all the crows gather in one place what ever may be the cause but they will come and surround the crow likewise people like you do not know the feeling of the Nepalese you know only your views and your one-sided attack towards the stability of Nepal. Mr. Parmendra wants a federal type of constitution for Nepal and wants a separate homeland like his truck I think he can handle his truck and think that he is the president of that truck otherwise come to the reason and come to the point not with a imaginary hypothesis, without any substantial proof and share imaginary hypocrisy. Dont be so cheap. Mind your language. Czar, I agree with you that driving trucks doesn't impair anyone's thinking abilities. We have all worked in different professions before choosing the one we like. However, it is a proven fact that profession has a strong correlation with intellectual ability and judgment. It is none of my business on what this (these) guy does nor it is their business to argue in abusive fashion, however I cannot watch abuse, injustice, self-flattering and foul language against a fellow Nepali. |
| Bijaya.M | Posted
on 24-Aug-03 10:35 PM
Parmendra Bhagat, I did not know that you are just a driver. Thanks to Biswo who elaborated this topic. But your standard is even cheaper than a professional driver. As you have used your glamorous words which proves your depth and your intellectual ability. Agar main chand par hota to kya karta? Is this an argument? Have a glimpse of your quotable-quote. >an apologist for the Brahministic hegemony >Madan Bhandari was quite a nationalist, definitely more so than MBBS. Well, guess what. Bhandari could not have come forth to any position of leadership during the Panchayat. >MBBS built Kodari Rajmarga? More roads got built since 1990 than during the previous three centuries. If Nepal had been a democracy since 1960, the country would have been much better off by now. Mahendra was a villain who usurped democracy. >Don't try to teach me what democracy means, you MahendraBhakta. >It is jackas_es like you who are the reason Nepal needs a federal form of government >So stupid as- Bahadurs like you feels like they OWN Nepal!? >Your sympathies are more with the Indians in India and the Bhutanese in Bhutan than with the Nepalis in southern Nepal. Obviously "Nepali" is a cultural term for you, not something legal or political. Gentleman, your posting above is a clear mirror of your own face, thoughts and abilities. When you criticize the Brahmin hegemony and praise BP Koriala and Madan Bhandari; were they from Bhagat community or Mahato community? When you said MBBS buily Kodari Rajmarga (of no significance)? More roads got built since 1990, is it constructed by you; and they are all named in your name? Like BP Koiral's statue is established in Patna (why?), is your statue also somewhere there, when you have built so many important roads? Where are they? Only a fool will criticize the importance of Kodari Rajmarga and Mahendra Rajmarga, which are the lifelines for Nepal and Nepalese. The way MBBS saved Nepal from becoming the first victim of India (read more in my other postings if you wish to learn more). Like you said "we bahadurs" always remember him. We are not ungrateful Bhagats like you who claims to be a Nepali but praise Indian blockade and Indian rule. The Nepalese people have already suffered and paid the price of indirect Indian rule through their henchmen in the name of democracy. As you have said - You have no interest for the people of Nepal but people of so called Indian origin. Yes you are right I have no sympathy for the people like you who do not want to care for others suffering. I want to know from where you have collected this data of your biraders not getting citizenship? I have seen so many of your Indian biraders pulling rickshaw even in Muzaffarpur and Patna who have already received the citizenship book of Nepal. And still you say you are deprived from citizenship? In India only those Nepalese are allowed to apply in Government service or apply for the citizenship who resided in India prior to 1950. Tell me gentleman from where the figure of 33 lacs came to you and your GPK announced 50 lacs new citizenship should be given. Whose figure is true and who is a fraud or you both are fraud? Though it is useless to argue with you but still I have replied you in more gentle and simple words. I think you will not trouble me again with such a rubbish argument based on hypocritical hypothesis. Thanks. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 25-Aug-03 09:35 AM
Great points there, Suva Chintak and Bijay M. Hope to read more from you guys. SC, Please check your Sajha email (the address that you used to resgister your username). |