| Username |
Post |
| ashu |
Posted
on 21-Jul-03 07:19 AM
Exaggerated dominance
By Prakash A. Raj
In Kingdom of the bahuns, (State of the State, #153) CK Lal makes some sweeping generalisations in trying to advocate turning Nepal into a secular state. He cites examples of Nagaland and Kashmir where Hinduism is on the verge of extinction. Hindus were never present in large numbers in Nagaland, so the argument does not arise, and most Nagas were converted by Baptist missionaries in the 19th century.
Kashmir is different. Hindus may be on the verge of extinction in Kashmir valley but not in Jammu. There was an ethnic cleansing of Hindus from Kashmir valley about a decade ago that a secular government of India could not prevent. The Hindus who were left were almost all Pandits or Kashmiri Brahmins. Lal may be right to say that if Brahmins dont reform Hinduism, they will be the only caste left with such an archaic faith. But how could secularism provide a remedy? Also, why is he asking only Brahmins to reform Hinduism? Couldnt non-Brahmin Hindus also be reformers?
In the 168 years of a unified Nepal from Prithbi Narayan Shah till the end of the Rana regime in 1950, there was only one Bahun prime minister, Ranga Nath Paudel. True, the number of Bahun prime ministers was to increase dramatically after the advent of democracy in 1950.
A very small proportion of soldiers in the Royal Nepali Army are Bahuns, even though there may be a psy-war expert who is a Bahun. Lal writes about traditional dominance of Bahuns over foreign relations in the Shah court by giving an example of Jaisi Kotha. Actually, the equivalent of the present day Foreign Ministry during the Ranas was known as Munshi Khana, that was directly under the Prime Minister. Jaisi Kotha specialised in Nepal-Tibet relations and there were many Newari speaking Joshis and Rajbhandaris working in both the offices.
It is certainly true that Nepals administrative and judicial services at present are dominated by the Brahmins. But none of our noted mountaineers are Brahmins, nor are there any among Gurkha recruits for foreign armies. With time, there will be more janjatis and dalits in judicial and administrative services, as there will be Bahun mountaineers. There are already a large number of non-Brahmins in managerial posts in the field of tourism. The directory of Trekking Agents Association of Nepal (TAAN) for the year 2001 lists 300 members, of which only 16 percent of those listed as Managing Directors are Bahuns.
One of the advantages Brahmins enjoyed was the possibility of learning Sanskrit and getting free room and board as in Teen Dhara Paksala. This facility was not available to all Brahmins, only to a select few. Some were excluded because they belonged to a different category. This discriminatory practice was removed recently, and its doors are now open to all Brahmins and non-Brahmins.
Not all of Nepals neighbours are secular, and several of them are multi-ethnic. The percentage of Hindus in Nepal in the period 1991-2001 declined, and the percentage of Muslims and Christians increased. However, there are few religious riots in Nepal and the various communities live in harmony. This is why it is difficult to agree with CK Lals argument that secularism is the only way to govern a caste-ridden multi-ethnic nation state.
From the latest The Nepali Times
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| bewakoof |
Posted
on 21-Jul-03 08:19 AM
I have lived in two very different countires: Nepal and USA. Though one strain of social critique seems to be in vouge among the 'intellectual elites' in both countries. Bahun-bashing in Nepal and white male bashing in America. Do others see this commonality?
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| KOKO |
Posted
on 21-Jul-03 08:19 AM
Nepal for a secular state ? That would never work. A country where there is soo much diversity... how are you going to make it secular ? Unless you are going to enforce it as a law like hinduism was in Nepal. When Nepal was declared a hindu country..I did not see no ballot nor approval of general consensus. It was just forced upon. Now YOU KNOW WHO THE DRIVING FORCE WAS BEHIND THAT PETITION...who would bebefit the most if Nepal was eclared a Hindu Nation ? And the author asks if the non Bahun people could participate in reforming Hinduism ? YOU REALLY THINK THE BAHUN SOCIETY WOULD EVEN CONSIDER NON BAHUN SUGGESTIONS ? Yes there was only one Bramhin priminister but who were calling all the shots on a day to day business in the king's court, chamber, or public ? they were always the driving force behind all aspects of like during that time(religions was everything and people blindly followed cause they were uneducated and did not know better). That Jaisi Kotha is a prime example of how these so called priests controlled all aspects of people's general life. Bahun and treking industry ? well if they had their way ..I am sure they would love to dabble their hands and tap on to that $$$$ making industry(but they make it up by taking all the bribes from that very industry). Teen dhara Pakhashala is prime example of how these people descriminated the entire population of a country.
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| lalpari |
Posted
on 21-Jul-03 08:23 AM
Friendly Universe? Doesn't seem like it in this thread!!!
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| (*)Y(*) |
Posted
on 21-Jul-03 10:01 AM
what is the nepali word for "secular"?
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 21-Jul-03 10:04 AM
nirapexya
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| by |
Posted
on 21-Jul-03 10:52 AM
I am for some variation of Affirmative Action in Nepal. Why? Because involvement of minorities is very low in the nation's decision making circles.
BUT
That is a big but :-)
But as a Janajaati myself, I get very uncomfortable when I see any form of bahun-bashing. There's a reason why Martin Luther King was more effective than Malcolm X. Hate begets hate. I hear all these horrifying stories of ethnic cleansing in Africa (just recently watched the movie, Tears of the Sun, which I recommend), Eastern Europe, Laos, and I fearfully wonder, "are we inching towards similar fate?"
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 21-Jul-03 11:05 AM
by,
sad to say, but yeah! we are heading towards becoming next laos, rwanda and other african nations going through civil wars.
why?
There are already two nationalist movements--khumbuwan and tharuwan-- gaining momentum in nepal. The Khumbuwan and Tharuwan nationalist movements were/are encouraged by the maoists so that they could spread the politics of hatred and violence. now, these movements have taken an ugly turn.
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| honda |
Posted
on 21-Jul-03 11:19 AM
Ashu,
Secularism is NOT the ONLY way to govern a caste-ridden multi-ethnic nation state. It IS one of they ways.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 21-Jul-03 11:19 AM
nepali leaders made many mistakes in teh last 14 years. to capitalize on the voters' sentiments, they not only encouraged regionalism, but also fueled seperatist and fundamentalist natioanlist movements. the situation can still be brought under control, and help preseve the terretorial integrity of nepal.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 21-Jul-03 11:20 AM
honda,
it is also one of the ways to push nation towards uncertainity.
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| honda |
Posted
on 21-Jul-03 12:18 PM
isolated freak,
do you mean to say all the secular countries in the world have uncertain future? if not, then why do you think so in nepal's case?
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| KOKO |
Posted
on 21-Jul-03 12:30 PM
The reason we do not have other ethnic population in decision making position is because of Dirty Politics. There is a big difference between conversating about the issue and acting upon it. Without dialogue we would not even be discussing this topic today. During the Panchayat yrs we could not even do that. I am talking about holding them accountable. This the big big problem we have Nepal. Irresponsible people sitting in those Kursiii's ... accoutability, responsibility, efficiency, rights...all these elemnts were unheard of in the Panchayat yrs. In many ways its still the same. Well they've already systematically rooted ethnic cleansing a long time ago. Why do you think there are soo many Nepali ethnic cultures in UN's endangered cultures ? What about the rights of those people who lost everything in the Name of Nationalism and Religion ?
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| thugged out |
Posted
on 21-Jul-03 03:16 PM
Uh, Koko doesn't even know what secularism means. Hahahahahaha. Man, you're a gorilla indeed. Stick to copy-pasting your lame jokes, moron. And idiot, what the fuk is "Dirty Politics".
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 21-Jul-03 06:08 PM
honda,
any book /article on nationalism and nation-building will help you understand the consequences of jaat-dharma-bhasa -politics.
I am quite busy right now, but i'll get back to you tonight, or later this week.
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| jhilke kyailan |
Posted
on 22-Jul-03 02:45 AM
We are talking about a sensitive and explosive topic and thus rather than letting passions and emotions drive our arguments we must use use rationality as the base on which we debate and must provide evidence to support our argument. Blind generalisations based on personal prejudices have no intellectual merit.
I was born a bahun and was one until I decided I was just a man. Although the general perception in Nepal today is that somehow the bahuns have been cunning and manipulative, pulling the strings behind the scene for their own benefit, do not forget also that the bahun community has also provided a large number of reformers willing to fight against their own family if need be, and against oppresive regimes, putting their own life and that oif their family in danger for the sake of righteousness. Plus, I would like to all to consider what role their ethnic group and practices within such groups played in rendering those group in the economically down-trodden position they say they are in today......... Don't blame the bahuns for everything....and also, show evidence to back up your theories....
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| Koko |
Posted
on 22-Jul-03 07:16 AM
hugged out
I loove white chics, especially blondes. Nepali girls are, to put it bluntly, oooogly. Yuck! Who would date Nepali gals except for desperate assholes, who have nothing to lose?
Also, let me mention that I love Asian trannies and twinks. Mmmm mmmm, bring me some of em Asian twinks.
a ha ha ha. Yeah right. I think you're still a virgin, who slaps his monkey everyday. Ha
gghhhhh. Looks like someone beat her up with an ugly schtick. Or would that be a magic schtick, if you know what I mean?
There be mah nappy headed G's? Holla aight.
East coast where da thugz at aight. West coast be da wankstas. Holla
Think you're reaally reaaallly smart don't you ? Listen to yourself..huh ! ha ha ..ha ha ha
Jokes on u JAaaaCK !!!! DUH!!
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 22-Jul-03 10:08 AM
This sure is getting interesting:
Just some questions:
1. What is SECULARISM in Nepal's context? Are we misunderstanding secularism with say, other issues such as language/culture, race etc..?
2. Who is lobbying for secularism? Are they lobbying/rallying for it because they are informed? Couldn't it be that:
i) they are misinformed or ill-informed?
ii) Which group is likely to benifit more in a secular Nepal?
i
3. Does the word "Secular" matter that much in a country like Nepal where there's no religious fighting of any sort?
These are the questions that we need to think before commenting on a serious issue like this.
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| (*)Y(*) |
Posted
on 22-Jul-03 10:56 AM
Iso freak,
I still don't understand the meaning of the word "secular". Do u mind explaining it to me?
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| Sadabichar |
Posted
on 22-Jul-03 11:00 AM
Chaar Varna Chhatis Jaat.. Kya ramro in Nepal.. haha....
Dhet, yasari pani aphu aphu ma ladne?
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| Sadabichar |
Posted
on 22-Jul-03 11:03 AM
Forget about Char Varna.... stuff.
Be cunning, shrewd and harnesh personal benefits. If all the nepalese become cunning and result oriented.. what else you need? AllNepalis cunning, clever, shrewd, rich ... desh bikas bhayane ta?
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| Koko |
Posted
on 22-Jul-03 11:09 AM
Secularism in Nepal is not like in the western world where religion and state is seperate. Religion is soo deeply rooted in Nepal it effects the day to day life of our government,society, and personal. Therefore when you talk about secularism it incorporates everything daily lives(which is inseperable in Nepal). Well the the question is who is pushing this and with what motive ?
I personally for one would support a secular state..but would the king of Nepal do the Same and give up his godly duties ? and what about the Brahmins ? they definately are not going to let that happen.. cause its their bread and butter.
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| gal1 |
Posted
on 22-Jul-03 11:25 AM
koko ji as you are telling "what about the Brahmins ? they definately are not going to let that happen.. cause its their bread and butter" remamber one story about one piun in my office in Nepal haha you know what every week days he use to be abscent or late in office but on monday he alway he use to bring a prasad frm Pashupati nath and use to please all other staffs frm junior to senior so he was never kicked out and still working in same post due to pashupati nath's prasad!
So funny to hear but its true!
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| Sadabichar |
Posted
on 22-Jul-03 11:34 AM
Brpwn-nosing is everywhere!!!
Ke naulo kuro bhayo ta?
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| Neta_ji |
Posted
on 22-Jul-03 12:43 PM
The politics of JAAT, DHARMA, BHASHA should always be opened as an open debate until there are wide changes in the social and political structure of the Nepali population who fall under different divisions of JAAT, DHARMA and BHASHA . Debate on this issue has just began to emerge in the Nepali society in the last couple of year which indicates that the Nepali society is moving towards openness and is demanding fairness.
There has been a harmony (or the term STABILITY can be more accurate in the Nepals context) of relations between the various JAAT, DHARMA and BHASHA. And it is a very true fact in Nepali world. However the concerns and resentment becomes prevalent when one discovers how this harmony (stability) has been achieved. The harmony (stability) can be achieved in two ways.
1. By imposing absolute supremacy of one side over the other or TAKE ALL OF IT method (remember ELECTROVALENT BOND in basic Chemistry).
2. By sharing until the competing side becomes equally powerful and the mutual understanding can be created based upon needs and wants of both the sides or GIVE SOME AND TAKE SOME method (COVALENT BOND).
The harmony (stability) has been achieved in Nepali world by the first method, however to remain this method to be effective the dominating side has to retain supremacy over the other side at all times and for ever. With the emergence of consciousness (awareness) and education in the Nepali states NON-PRIORITY JAAT, DHARMA and BHASHA group, the supremacy of Nepali states PRIORITY group has come under great strain and questions have been raised by the NON-PRIORITY group. This debate on this thread at Sajha.com appears to be one such an example.
Is it bad to put debate or restrict this debate on JAAT, DHARMA and BHASHA fearing that the debate will cause the loss of harmony (stability) among various JAAT, DHARMA and BHASHA ?
No, absolutely not, in fact it was a long overdue process that has remain stuck because there had had been no debate on this issue in the Nepali society. It is wonderful it has started to take place among various sections of the Nepali world. This debate should continue and will continue until there is substantial changes in the states and the constitutions position on JAAT, DHARMA and BHASHA. In the winds of change the methods of maintaining harmony must be achieved by the second method (mentioned above) in which the both sides benefit and still the harmony (stability) can be maintained without much friction, the quicker the better if not it will bring about a much wider friction with the change in the awareness and education in the population of NON-PRIORITY group.
Till this date, the Nepali state and its constitution has always given first priority to only one group of JAAT, DHARMA and BHASHA which is fundamentally against the principles of democracy. This kind of policy as the state policy had taken a deep rooted systematic form and its basic structure has remained unchanged (look into some provisions of THE CONSTITUTION OF NEPAL, 1990) in the last (approximately) 240 years since Prithivi Narayan Shah's victory over KTM Valley.
It is a very tragic reality to have such a system in a country where there are more than 70 different JAATS, which follow more than 5 different DHARMA and speak 50 different BHASHA. This case becomes worse when we realize that amendments had not been made to the legal, administrative, political and educational system which could have had ensured greater fairness in terms of JAAT, DHRAMA and BHASHA that could have embraced the needs and demands of the greater section of the Nepali society in accordance to the ever growing emergence of . I call it a complete LACK OF VISION in building an integrated society. Such a state policy and the legal provisions makes it harder for people who belong to NON-PRIORITY list of JAAT, DHARMA , BHASHA to integrate into the mainstream Nepali society leading to a wide level of fracture in the society. In the case of Nepal, the damage has already been done. It is unfortunate that the Maoists have discovered this issue as one of their prime political agendas (refer to the 40 point demands of the Maoists in 1996) because they knew that it attracts supporters who were on the dire side of this JAT, DHARMA, BHASHA debate.
If the the state's and the constitution's postition on JAT, DHARMA and BHASHA had been amended in the course of ever changing social reality, the Maoist would have never received the opportunity to use this issue as one of their prime political agendas....unfortunately they did...
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| Bond-007 |
Posted
on 22-Jul-03 01:12 PM
Simple solution, let's start calling everyone just Nepalese and let's making ourselves *cast blind*. We will see Nepalese climbing Mt. Everest not Sherpas, we will see successful Nepalese businessmen not Newars, we will see brave Nepalese solder not *SE,TA,MA,GU,RA,LI*, and we will see good Nepalese administrators not Bahuns.
Isn't this an irony that first we give *Bahuns* a higher place in the socio-cultural hierarchy and then start pulling their legs?
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| Sadabichar |
Posted
on 22-Jul-03 01:39 PM
Ke ko kach kach pheri?
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| thugged out |
Posted
on 22-Jul-03 02:22 PM
Koko said,
"Secularism in Nepal is not like in the western world where religion and state is seperate"
Your English sucks, Koko. I'll let you figure this one out. No wonder you're a chimp. Also, good thing you looked up the meaning of secularism, because you weren't making sense before I jump-started your puny brain.
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| Rastafariya |
Posted
on 22-Jul-03 08:10 PM
Biraders Peopal. You want I to write or not? I is now bein nice and I is always ask. I is learned that them peopal not like I. Them peopal only like them educasion peopal talkin. I is not know many things of them Politicals and them socials like them educasion peopal do. But I is wants to write sometimes. Peopal told I to ask before writin if them it is ok for I to write. That them what them yoused to do to I. Only then them let I do things. I is see it still them same and more in them Democracy and them Nasionalism peopal. But I is not write if you biraders say I not to write nothing.
Let I know biraders
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| (*)Y(*) |
Posted
on 22-Jul-03 08:28 PM
Rasta, just wanna hear you talk...!
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| Rastafariya |
Posted
on 22-Jul-03 08:45 PM
Now Birader! You is put I in hard pojision now. I is not even unnerstan what them your name is. I is wants to address you. But what them I is to call you birader? Them your name looks like them pikchar of them peopals body parts. I is not saying that I is not like them body parts of peopal. I is actually loves them your name. But you is know that it not nice to say them words. But I is think it is just them peopal with them hypocrisy that say them your name is not nice. I is think your name is beautiful birader. I is just wants to know how them I is to call you here . I is just loves them your name and everything that comes withattached with your name birader.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 23-Jul-03 05:31 AM
Neta ji,
I DISAGREE with you. Don't worry, I will let you know why I disagree with you when I get back to this thread tonight.
garmi bhayo! anyone for a cold carlseberg at Mike's this evening?
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| Koko |
Posted
on 23-Jul-03 07:47 AM
Thugged out,
Why don't you goback to your Ebonics class and polish your one liners. Cause thats all you're good for. At least I am trying, look at you you don't even know who you are...What are you Mr Ebonics wanna be black he! he! With your Ghetto famous line" YOUR ENGLISH SUCKS", besides that do you have anything else to say ? Man you need to get a life instead sitting here correcting other people's English. Buy the way how much are you getting paid to spellcheck and correct grammer by SAJHA ?
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 07:15 AM
Neta ji,
accept my apolgies for this considerable delay in getting back to you. I will be posting a long reply to you soon--very soon. However, here's a quick one liner to get the discussion going and to keep this thread frtom disappearing.
I think nepal needs to impose onelanguage, one culture on its citizens. the state has to impose natiomnalism in a highjly diversified country like nepal, otherwise we will have 22-24 rajya again.
la pachi lekhchu.. NTV news time.. plus other issues.. has anyone gone through sixya mantralaya hassles?
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| Rastafariya |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 09:03 AM
Birader isolated freak. what them you is sayin? We is fine and we is was fine before. It was them beautiful system. We is not need one languaje and them one culture. Them peopal do good. You is not see them peopal bring Democracy? Them peopal is high peopal with them lofty ideals and passion for governin da country justly. See how them rule justly. Them do everything just for themselfs. I is not unnerstan what them we will get by them one languaje and one culture. Besides we is always had them. Did not we is have one kind of peopal rule for generasions? Did not we always have only one culture? You is never know nothing birader freak. If you is start saying them to bring changes we is not going to be happy. We is going to put you in Jail.
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| neta_ji |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 09:50 AM
Well, Isolated freak was that a serious answer ? I looks like a joke to me.
The thing is there is already an imposition of one language, one culture and one religion and if the imposition goes beyond this it will futher fuel the ETHNIC NATIONALISM as opposed to HUGELY BOASTED unity of different diverse group of ethnicity which will quicken the disintegration of already fractured nation....chao
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 10:38 AM
netaji,
let's agree that we have very different ways to analyze the evnts unfolding in nepal. there's no way i will think like you or vice versa.. so, let's discuss by respecting this simple fact:
Nepal is now going through what scholars would call "nation building" phase. In this phase, the state has to be strong and has to forcefuklly impose the language, culture and in some cases even religion. Remember, if Gen. Attaturk hadn't imposed the Romanized Script and a liberal version of islam, Turkey would have disintegrated by now. Also, look at teh Chinese example. The state not only imposed the language but also the culture and even timezone! and precisely for this reason, a Tibetan living in Tibet and a manchu living in Inner Mongolia get the sense of being Chinese. The common language is one key factor in safeguarding nation's terretorial integrity. If you look at the European History, you will see that nationalist movements was due to the invention of printing press. People after seeing their languages printed, wanted to have their own terretory and many new countries came into existence. So, language is THE most important factor when you talk about nationalism andnationalism movements.
Nepal is roughly the size of Wisconsin but has more than 20 ethnic groups with more than 0 languages. And precisely for this very reason, the state has to impose nepali or any otehr language as lingua franca of the nation, so that the nation remains united. If we start granting regions autonomous status at this point, that would just elad to freedom movements, which in turn would result in a civil war and I am sure you aren't looking for it.
As for the rise of ethnic nationalism in Nepal, it has to be suppressed for some time.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 10:40 AM
Nepal is roughly the size of Wisconsin but has more than 20 ethnic groups with more than 0 languages= more than 30
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 10:43 AM
aslo, if you want to succeed in politics, give up on being liberal. liberalism and all that attitude looks good in books and sounds good, but when it comes to policy making, it only results in diasters, disatsers and more disasters in a country like nepal.
namaste
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| Rastafariya |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 01:40 PM
Yes Birader Freak. Them Liberal peopal not good. We is needs them conservative peopal to run them country like Them ministers before. Them ministers was runnin da country good. I is agree with you Birader Freak. Why them change? Them we should go back to where we was before. Everythin else is them fine. I is agree. Them Liberal and Democracy for them Country. We is needs some conservative peopal that them do enforce laws and regulasions and them be da judge. Them sounds good to I.
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| yOuNgBlOoDz |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 03:56 PM
WHY DO YA PEOPLE MAKE IT SO COMPLICATED..
JUST MAKE IT SIMPLE N EASE
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| GurL_Interrupted |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 05:04 PM
Partna, that's coz life is complicated :=P! :=D!
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| Rastafariya |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 05:32 PM
Yes them peopal makes them Complicasion. I is a simpal peopal. I is like them simpal systam. Them life is not complicasion. Peopal makes them complicasion. Them peopal wants them and that. I is a simpal peace loving peopal. Why them her gurl wants interrupsion? Why them not keep goin? I is just not unnerstan
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| GurL_Interrupted |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 05:55 PM
"Why them her gurl wants interrupsion? Why them not keep goin? I is just not unnerstan"
Rasta,
Nope, I do not want any interruption nor do I want life to be complicated. If I could make a wish...I would wish for a simple life free from worries, guilt, mistakes and perhaps some ugly memories!...I would wish for a simple life free from hatred and jealousy...where no one is poor...where everyone have enuff to live by...where there are no orphans...where everyone respect and value each other...where everyone is happy & jolly! Unfortunaely, it doesnot seem to be possible! *sigh!* So, at the end of the day, my wish remains just a wish! Hence, interruption and complication continue to remain a part of my life, whether I like it or not!
There are some things in life you get not becoz u want them! Perhaps interruption & complication were those un-invited guests that stopped by my journey's door!
That's life! *sigh* But, I *think* I Have moved on and am moving on!...eventhough now and then I stop and look back! *which is bad!* Still learning!
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| yOuNgBlOoDz |
Posted
on 25-Jul-03 07:49 AM
AAYUSHMAN BHAVA PARTNA..
TIMILE CHITAYEKO SABAI KURA CHITA NAI PUGNE CHA :p
YB
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| paramendra |
Posted
on 25-Jul-03 06:40 PM
"...But how could secularism provide a remedy? Also, why is he asking only Brahmins to reform Hinduism? Couldnt non-Brahmin Hindus also be reformers? ..... Jaisi Kotha specialised in Nepal-Tibet relations and there were many Newari speaking Joshis and Rajbhandaris working in both the offices....... there are few religious riots in Nepal and the various communities live in harmony. This is why it is difficult to agree with CK Lals argument that secularism is the only way to govern a caste-ridden multi-ethnic nation state....."
".. Bahun-bashing in Nepal and white male bashing in America. ..."
"...Martin Luther King was more effective than Malcolm X..."
"..to capitalize on the voters' sentiments, they not only encouraged regionalism, but also fueled seperatist and fundamentalist natioanlist movements. the situation can still be brought under control, and help preseve the terretorial integrity of nepal...."
"... the consequences of jaat-dharma-bhasa -politics.."
"..Which group is likely to benifit more in a secular Nepal? ....Does the word "Secular" matter that much in a country like Nepal where there's no religious fighting of any sort? ...."
"...he politics of JAAT, DHARMA, BHASHA should always be opened as an open debate until there are wide changes in the social and political structure of the Nepali population who fall under different divisions of JAAT, DHARMA and BHASHA . .Till this date, the Nepali state and its constitution has always given first priority to only one group of JAAT, DHARMA and BHASHA which is fundamentally against the principles of democracy.....It is a very tragic reality to have such a system in a country where there are more than 70 different JAATS, which follow more than 5 different DHARMA and speak 50 different BHASHA. This case becomes worse when we realize that amendments had not been made to the legal, administrative, political and educational system which could have had ensured greater fairness in terms of JAAT, DHRAMA and BHASHA that could have embraced the needs and demands of the greater section of the Nepali society in accordance to the ever growing emergence of . I call it a complete LACK OF VISION in building an integrated society. Such a state policy and the legal provisions makes it harder for people who belong to NON-PRIORITY list of JAAT, DHARMA , BHASHA to integrate into the mainstream Nepali society leading to a wide level of fracture in the society....."
"...let's start calling everyone just Nepalese and let's making ourselves *cast blind*. We will see Nepalese climbing Mt. Everest not Sherpas, we will see successful Nepalese businessmen not Newars, we will see brave Nepalese solder not *SE,TA,MA,GU,RA,LI*, and we will see good Nepalese administrators not Bahuns..."
"...I think nepal needs to impose onelanguage, one culture on its citizens. the state has to impose natiomnalism in a highjly diversified country like nepal, otherwise we will have 22-24 rajya again. .."
"The state not only imposed the language but also the culture and even timezone! .... the state has to impose nepali or any otehr language as lingua franca of the nation, so that the nation remains united...."
|
| paramendra |
Posted
on 25-Jul-03 06:41 PM
Kingdom of the bahuns
Secularism is the only way to govern a caste-ridden, multi-ethnic nation state.
ROBIN SAYAMI
Secularism is one of the 18 forward-looking agendas collectively adopted by the five party coalition campaigning against regression. Details havent been clearly spelled out, but presumably genuine religious freedom is all that the mainstreamers are aiming for.
The secularism of the Nepali Congress and UML is sure to be much less unsettling than the idol-smashing, cow-butchering, temple-desecrating, and Sanskrit-censuring atheistic politics of the Maoists.
Yet, this harmless agenda of parliamentary parties has ignited vociferous protests. All kinds of Hindu outfits that mutely watched Maoists excesses for eight years are suddenly up in arms against the very idea of secularism. The World Brahmin Conference may herald a Hindu backlash against modernist parties conducting relay hunger strikes in urban areas.
Hindu militancy is largely an urban phenomenon even in neighbouring India. The Brahmin warriors of Banaras and Vadodara, pretending to be modern avatars of mythological Parsuram (the Hindu sage who attained Brahmin status on the strength of his penance, and then went on to eliminate sinning Kshatriyas) seldom venture out to places like Kashmir and Nagaland where Hinduism is on the verge of extinction.
Its not surprising that the faculty of the Mahendra Sanskrit University of Dang spend most of their time in Kathmandu. Brahmins consider themselves to be heaven-born entitled by birth to all the privileges available in this world. As ordained by Hindu scriptures, The Universe is under the power of the gods. The gods are under the power of the mantras. The mantras are under the power of the Brahmins. Therefore the Brahmins are our gods. And how!
Nepal is still a Hindu Kingdom, and in the Hindu scheme of things, Chhetris may rule but there are always powerful Bahuns off-stage. Surya Bahadur Thapa owes his premiership to the grace of King Gyanendra, in addition to the rumoured backing of foreign forces. But his cabinet secretary, Bimal Koirala, has risen from the ranks and is not beholden to anyone save the rules of civil service and his own conscience. It will not be surprising if the bureaucracy paid more attention to Bimal Koiralas instructions than to the commands of a stopgap prime minister.
Kathmandu is currently hosting the foreign secretaries meet of SAARC, and Madhu Raman Acharya, is leading the Nepali delegation. Yet another Bahun, Madan Bhattarai is the articulate spokesperson of foreign ministry. The traditional dominance of Bahuns over foreign relations in the Shah court has been so complete that the external affairs department during the Rana regime was known merely as the Jainshi Kotha. General Pyarjung Thapa may be at the helm of the Royal Nepali Army, but its psy-war expert is none other than Biye Kumar Sharma.
Maoist ideologue Baburam Bhattarai was recently spotted circumambulating the temple of Manakamana with his elderly parents, journalists dutifully in tow. Even years of ruthless war doesnt seem to erase the caste legacy of 6,000 years. The janjati, dalit, and women base of Maoists notwithstanding, its leadership too is firmly in the hands of Comrades Dahal and Bhattarai.
The legislative arm of government, when it is functional, is also Bahun dominated, with the leaders Messrs Koirala, Nepal and Pokhrel all caste-mates. Graftbuster Surya Nath Upadhayay and most of his colleagues in the CIAA are Bahuns. Chief Justice Kedar Nath Upadhayay, the entire judiciary, including most Bars, are Bahun-dominated.
The Fourth Estate is also a near-Bahun preserve. Name any prominent journalist in Nepal, and you can almost be sure he (media continues to be a male preserve) is likely to be a Ghimire, Koirala, Dahal, Upadhyay or, as with this paper, a Dixit. Bahuns were, and still are, scribes.
This is why the World Brahmin Conference couldnt have chosen a better venue than Kathmandu. Its convener restaurateur B L Sharma may or may not have his own political agenda, but it wouldnt be surprising at all if the meet comes up with a decision to uphold the primacy of monarchy in the only Hindu Kingdom of the world.
Noted Indian constitutionalist B R Ambedkar once observed that graded inequality and supremacy of the heaven-born was an inalienable part of Hinduism. In disgust, he later embraced Buddhism. If Brahmins dont reform Hinduism, they will be the only caste left with such an archaic faith. The reform must begin by accepting that secularism in the affairs of the state is an inevitable and indispensable part of democratic polity. No other form of statecraft can meet the challenges of governing a multi-ethnic nation state.
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| knt |
Posted
on 26-Jul-03 05:00 AM
Yeah Isolated Freak, I actually agree with you, a good way of forcing solidarity is by imposing one language over the whole geographic area. This is actually a requirement in my opinion. Name me one country with countless official languages that is highly developed? There isn't any. America is a quintessential example of what I just said, since people of various backgrounds have amalgamated to form this melting pot where people are mostly united, whether they be black or white. People of various nationalities, creed, religion have made it their home, but they have all accepted the reality of unity among differences. As I said, to do so, we HAVE to impose one culture/language over another. I am not for destroying other people's culture forcefully though as this might have repurcussions in the long run. But all I am saying is that for all purposes, we should officially TRY to impose one lanuage/culture. This is actually happening, and it is a good thing.
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| chituwa |
Posted
on 26-Jul-03 01:28 PM
What the fuk man? Oye freak what u talking about here? I think the minorities of nepal should preserve their languages and culture. Isolated Freak dont go on with that bullsh!t about enforcing inter-racial marriages and 1 language man. Why you wanna mess with their constitutional rights? Nepal is good the way it is IN TERMS OF MULTICULTURISM.
About that Bahuns discriminating the other ethnic groups.. I think its true to certain extent. They're making Matawalis fight amongst themselves right now with the Maoism movemet. People dying on both sides of the fence (Nepal Army & the Red Army) are matawalis. Its f*cked up. Physically they don't f*ck with us but they on with they dirty games cause they hold all the political power in Nepal.
Thats my 2 cents
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| Rastafariya |
Posted
on 26-Jul-03 03:30 PM
Chituwa Birader! Why them you is so angry? You is needs to take them deep breadth. Dont be comin here tellin lies.
When them bahun discriminate? Them Bahuns nice peopal. Them never discriminasion to other peopal. Them nice nice ministers and them Leaders never discriminasion. You is needs to read them history birader Chituwa.Them bahun peopal never wants other brothers to do them hard dangerous work of them runnin them country or them working in them big big pojision in them system. Them peopal even not let king work hard. Them sayd them bring Democracy and them all peopal is become happy.Them bring Democracy and them is always change them Prime minsitars. Them sayd it good for them country and peopal.
Now them gets tired because all of them done becoming Prime ministers and them all ministers. Now them say lets do somethin bettar. Them Bahun Biraders with them knowledges knowed them other peopal was getting bored. So them say lets make them maobadi peopal. So now them say now we is have more excitenment. Now them have more peopal to do them jobs of them leaders.
Birader Chituwa! You is needs to thinks .If you is have any quesions you is always welcome to ask I. You is go back and read them history ok Birader?
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| LaataMora |
Posted
on 26-Jul-03 04:51 PM
It is most obvious from the nature itself that life is full of varieties. World is so beautiful because there are so many colors. Had there been red roses only, it would have looked ugly. Nature has made bahuns smarter/clever than other castes. It is due to SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST. THAT'S WHY MOST OF THE POLITICIANS ARE BAHUNS. NO WONDER!
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| paramendra |
Posted
on 26-Jul-03 05:19 PM
Switzerland has three official languages.
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| knt |
Posted
on 26-Jul-03 05:34 PM
Sorry, but 3 is not "countless" Paramendra.
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| paramendra |
Posted
on 26-Jul-03 05:41 PM
Every language spoken in the world is spoken somewhere in America. Now, THAT is "countless." The more the merrier.
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| knt |
Posted
on 26-Jul-03 06:25 PM
Yeah, but those are recent immigrants you're talking about. The assimilated ones communicate in English. Have you ever met ABCD's before? Most of them can't speak in their native Indian languages. If everyone starts dismissing English as symbol of Anglo-Saxon domination, and start speaking in their native tongue, just like many here espouse as regards to Nepal's situation, then only Lord knows how tumultous and disorderly America would be.
So, simple solution=one language unity. It is a must.
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| Bhunte |
Posted
on 26-Jul-03 07:27 PM
literally, brahmin means some one knowledgable, and, in the modern world knowledge is also power. so, what's wrong being borne in bahun's family or bahun dominating any society..i wish all of you have brains like that of brahmins or bahuns whatever...
meanwhile i suggest you guys interested on bahun dominance, etc related issue to visit this web site
- http://www.nepalnews.com.np/ntimes/issue104/comment.htm
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| KaleKrishna |
Posted
on 26-Jul-03 07:53 PM
This sensitive issue needs coller approach. Ifji's suggestion for intra-ethnic, intraracial marriage is the best solution. But as hybrids are they can be either very good or very bad, some of the millitiant leaders and student leaders of North East Indian tribal states have Nepali gene, mixed in them but they are actively against their faternal community. Hence such mixed marriage if unsuccessfull will led to even worse scenario when Bahun's wisdom gene and Magar's brave gene express together then you can see the outcome (if misused).
However, calm approach for bridging the gaps, among individual,s circle of friends, family, society, community will be the right approach. Unless "mapaipan" and "ma" and "mero" does not vanish these all will never materialize. Why not be a seed and start with example, a seed will generate thousand of seeds.
Sorry for being philoshopical, but have we ever thought what we contribute to achieve this social harmony
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| Sadabichar |
Posted
on 26-Jul-03 10:49 PM
I think the title of this thread itself is misnomer.
Nepal is going down.. not because of bahun.... but because of cunning, clever people who are running the country. The fact is that clever, cunning, shrewd people reach the top notch positions in both bureaucracy and political positions. Unfortunately, being educated and shrewd/clever/cunning/intelligent, yet these high profile people could not sit together and uplift the country.. rather they created mess.
Sansar ta yo mora haru le ghumekei hun, tara desh pharkanchhan, ani uhi tandab nritya garchhan
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| Sadabichar |
Posted
on 26-Jul-03 10:52 PM
The Brahmin - as Budhha defined is as follows:
Cut the stream and go across, abandon sensuality, brahmin. When you have achieved the stilling of the activities of the
mind, you will know the unconditioned, brahmin.
When a brahmin has crossed beyond duality, then all the fetters of such a seer come to an end.
When a man knows no this shore, other shore, or both - such a one, free from anxiety, liberated, that is what I call a
brahmin.
Meditating, free from stain, settled in mind, with job accomplished, without inflowing thoughts, and having achieved the
supreme purpose - that is what I call a brahmin.
By day it is the sun which shines, at night the moon shines forth. A warrior shines in his armour, and a brahmin shines in
meditation. But at all times, by day and by night, the Buddha shines in his glory.
A brahmin is called so by breaking with evil deeds. It is by pious behaviour that a man is called a man of religion, and by
casting out blemishes one is called one gone forth.
One should not strike a brahmin, and nor should a brahmin lose his temper. Shame on him who strikes a brahmin, and
shame on him who loses his temper because of it.
Nothing is better in a brahmin than this - that he restrains his mind from pleasurable things. Suffering disappears for him
to the same extent that he gets rid of thoughts of harming anyone.
He who does no wrong with body, speech or mind, but is restrained in all three spheres - that is what I call a brahmin.
One should reverently pay homage to the man from whom one has learned the Truth, taught by the True Buddha, like a
brahmin does to the sacrificial fire.
One is not a brahmin by virtue of matted hair, lineage or caste. When a man possesses both Truth and truthfulness, then
he is pure, then he is a brahmin.
What use is your matted hair, you fool? What use is your antelope skin? You are tangled inside, and you are just making
the outside pretty.
The man who wears robes made from rags off the dust heap, who is gaunt, with his sinews standing out all over his
body, alone meditating in the forest - that is what I call a brahmin.
I do not call him a brahmin who is so by natural birth from his mother. He is just a supercilious person if he still has
possessions of his own. He who owns nothing of his own, and is without attachment - that is what I call a brahmin.
He who, having cut off all fetters, does not get himself upset, but is beyond bonds - that liberated man is what I call a
brahmin.
He who has cut off both bond and strap, halter as well as bridle, who has removed the barrier, himself a Buddha - that is
what I call a brahmin.
He who endures undisturbed criticism, ill-treatment and bonds, strong in patience, and that strength his power - that is
what I call a brahmin.
Without anger, devout, upright, free from craving, disciplined and in his last body - that is what I call a brahmin.
Like water on a lotus leaf, like a mustard seed on the point of an pin, he who is not stuck to the senses - that is what I
call a brahmin.
He who has experienced the end of his suffering here in this life, who has set down the burden, freed! - that is what I call
a brahmin.
The sage of profound wisdom, the expert in the right and wrong road, he who has achieved the supreme purpose - that is
what I call a brahmin.
Not intimate with laity or monks, wandering about with no abode, and few needs - that is what I call a brahmin.
Abandoning violence to all living creatures moving or still, he who neither kills or causes killing - that is what I call a
brahmin.
Unagitated amongst the agitated, at peace among the violent, without clinging among those who cling - that is what I call
a brahmin.
He from whom desire and aversion, conceit and hypocrisy have fallen away, like a mustard seed on the point of a pin -
that is what I call a brahmin.
He who utters only gentle, instructive and truthful speech, criticising no-one - that is what I call a brahmin.
He who takes nothing in the world that has not been given him, long or short, big or small, attractive or that is what I call
a brahmin.
He who has no desires in this world or the next, without longings, freed! - that is what I call a brahmin.
He who has no attachments and has been freed from uncertainty by realisation, who has plunged into the deathless - that
is what I call a brahmin.
He who has even here and now transcended the fetter of both good and evil, who is sorrowless, faultless and pure - that
is what I call a brahmin.
The man who is stainless, pure, clear and free from impurities like the moon, the search for pleasure extinguished - that is
what I call a brahmin.
He who has transcended the treacherous mire of samsara and ignorance, who has crossed over, reached the other shore,
meditating, motionless of mind, free from uncertainty, and who is at peace by not clinging to anything - that is what I call
a brahmin.
He who by here and now abandoning sensuality, has gone forth a homeless wanderer, the search for pleasure
extinguished - that is what I call a brahmin.
He who by here and now abandoning craving, has gone forth a homeless wanderer, the search for pleasure extinguished -
that is what I call a brahmin.
He who has abandoned human bonds, and transcended those of heaven, liberated from all bonds - that is what I call a
brahmin.
He who has abandoned pleasure and displeasure, is cooled off and without further fuel, the hero who has conquered all
worlds - that is what I call a brahmin.
He who has seen the passing away and rebirth of all beings, free of clinging, blessed, awakened - that is what I call a
brahmin.
He whose path devas, spirits and men cannot know, whose inflowing thoughts are ended, a saint - that is what I call a
brahmin.
He who has nothing of his own, before, after or in between, possessionless and without attachment - that is what I call a
brahmin.
Bull-like, noble, a hero, a great sage, and a conqueror, he who is motionless of mind, washed clean and awakened - that
is what I call a brahmin.
He who has known his former lives and can see heaven and hell themselves, while he has attained the extinction of
rebirth, a seer, master of transcendent knowledge, and master of all masteries - that is what I call a brahmin.
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| Sadabichar |
Posted
on 27-Jul-03 07:50 PM
Sathiharu:
Brahmin Bhanera Garva garne harule, mathi ullekhit tavarle behave garnu paryo... Karma pani ustei tavarko hunuparyo.
And those who are not brahmin by birth can become brahmin by displaying above qualities. Anyone can become Brahmin.
As for the question of Brahmin's dominance... The dominance you've been mentioning/experiencing is not Brahmin's dominance...it's only the dominance of the individuals (both Brahmins and non-brahmins by birth) who have grasped/reached the positions in political and bureaucratic streams, who do not have the qualities of Brahmins.
As soon as they cheat the whole nation and its countrymen, immediately they turned into demons from Bahmins...
Therefore, the topic of this thread shoudl be "Devil's Dominance".
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| suva chintak |
Posted
on 28-Jul-03 08:14 AM
"I is a simpal peace loving peopal. Why them her gurl wants interrupsion? Why them not keep goin? I is just not unnerstan"
This question of the century was posed by no other than our own Rastafaria brother! A gem of wisdom I say...why interruption indeed if it can be avoided by such a simple precaution as locking the door behind you as you go in for a quickie treat? You never know when a nosy neighbor or a rascally room-mate might barge in to borrow your iron or nail polish. So lock up, you need the advance warning to wrap up the proceedings to a satisfactory conclusion, right Rasta?
By the way, anyone heard of the character called 'coitus_interreptus'?
SC, the always Rasta fan
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 28-Jul-03 11:37 AM
"By the way, anyone heard of the character called 'coitus_interreptus'? ".... Suva Chintak
I believe "coitus-interreptus" belonged to the "Irrythemic Momentus" of the Order of the Over-Populus-Preventus.... Kyare!!!
In jest,
Sitara
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| suva chintak |
Posted
on 28-Jul-03 12:12 PM
Literally, there is no limit to what pedagogy will do for you...especially when it is alloyed with some stardust!
InJest as well
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| Rastafariya |
Posted
on 28-Jul-03 06:38 PM
Suva Birader and Sitaara Sister! I is have big big respect for you peopal. Only peopal like youselfs make this earth difference. Living become smoothely with peopal like you when all them peopal is angry for everything. I is not unnerstand why them peopal have so much anger at everything and towards everythin. Them peopal angry and them blame others peopal for their anger.
About them interrupsion now. You peopal is mistake inturrupsion and think it is caused by them peopal. You them peopal think that them cause interrupsion and them you gets angry at interruptor. But them truth is Interrupsion is caused by interruptee theyselves. All them peopal is just confused between interrupsion and prevension. Them you peopal think it the same. If them peopal cause prevent you from doin somethin that is them different
Once Rasta is off work. Him start doin his business in them room. In the middle come back Rastas roommate. But I is not get angry at he. Him never give I no interrupsion and I is not interrupted. I is never stop doin what them I is doing. I is think peopal not evolved so them get interrupsion. So Rastas whole point is them never get angry at interrupsion because them we cause interrupsion ourself.
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| Rastafariya |
Posted
on 28-Jul-03 06:41 PM
After I is not interrupsion by my room mate. I is thank him birader. Him my room mate birader ask Rasta. Birader how much it was?
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| GurL_Interrupted |
Posted
on 28-Jul-03 10:32 PM
"All them peopal is just confused between interrupsion and prevension."
If I stop dancing (has a deeper meaning than it may appear!) just becoz I am afraid of interruptions, I will die w/o really living my life. I don't want that!...want to taste it all to its utomost before I lose it!...hence I'd rather go for interruptions than preventions!
:-/! Kapish!
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| GurL_Interrupted |
Posted
on 28-Jul-03 10:37 PM
*utmost*
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| Rastafariya |
Posted
on 29-Jul-03 07:57 AM
Gurl!
If you is really wants to know them things. I is can provide with all them informasion.I is have first hand experience on matter of interrupsion and of course prevension. I is even had experience peopal tryin to interrupsion I.
I is was thrown this interrupsion and prevension towards I even before I was born.But I is never got interrupsion nor prevension from coming to be born. But it was my luck.
I is so glad that them there was not good means of interrupsion and Prevension method in my fadas and modas time.
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| whine and chij |
Posted
on 29-Jul-03 08:33 AM
bhagat,
the four official languages of switzerland are italian, german, french, and rhaeto-romansch.
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| Rastafariya |
Posted
on 29-Jul-03 09:35 AM
Whine Birader! Them is Official languaje of them Swizerland but them unofficially accept my languaje of not nice english too. I is just giving you this informasion because some of them your peopal always tell I to make my english gooder.
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| whine and chij |
Posted
on 29-Jul-03 10:16 AM
heya, broda!
it's so wonderful to have you back again. don't worry about them, everything's going to be alright. and thanks for the informasian, too. :D
c-ya later
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| Bhunte |
Posted
on 30-Jul-03 03:47 AM
Bahun Chauku:
Gham Pani Gham
Shyal ko bihe
Kukkura Janti
Biralo BAHUN
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| Sadabichar |
Posted
on 31-Jul-03 07:14 AM
Hoina, is this the end of this thread?
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| Rastafariya |
Posted
on 31-Jul-03 07:48 AM
Birader Sadabichar! what them you want mo now? You is them always Bichar that why you is confuse. Some time you is need to do without them bichar. Like them Nike say Just Do It!
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| LaataMora |
Posted
on 31-Jul-03 09:45 AM
Gham paani gham
Shyaal Ko Bihaa
Kukoor Janti
Biraloo bahun
Unfortunately, most bahun politicians turned into SHYAAL from BIRALOO..
CORRUPT POLITICIANS ARE THE CURSE TO OUR CURRENT SITUATION IN NEPAL..
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| Rastafariya |
Posted
on 31-Jul-03 12:20 PM
Biradar Laata Mora! yo moda must be very intelligence Lady. Only her could give you such appropriate name . Them Shyaal is better than them Biralo. Them shyaal bigger and them Biralo is always looking for moosa. Chicken is them better than mouse. That why you is like the taste of Chicken and that why you is eat chicken and not them mouse.
Y
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| Sadabichar |
Posted
on 31-Jul-03 03:03 PM
Rasta Fariya...
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| Rastafariya |
Posted
on 31-Jul-03 04:01 PM
Sadabichar biradar now you is them doing mo bichar. You is not even write nothing. Maybe you is want I to do them your bichar? You is Just write them Rasta Fariya.....
Birader you is needs to write. Let them your bichar is come out and them there is plenty of space for them bichar of yours Here in Sajha
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| Sadabichar |
Posted
on 31-Jul-03 05:04 PM
jawos Rasta fariya.. jawos
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| Rastafariya |
Posted
on 31-Jul-03 05:41 PM
Birader Sadabichar! I is not know what to write ? You is tell I what I is needs to say. I is not like them biraders with them educasions. I is run out of my 27 english words very fast. I is never can write long long things.
You is tell I and I is can write. I is have answers but I is not know if I not have quesions
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| yOuNgBlOoDz |
Posted
on 31-Jul-03 09:30 PM
sadabichar.. there is no end for topic about.. race.. gender.. nationality..
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| Rastafariya |
Posted
on 01-Aug-03 04:09 PM
Birader Young them there is never no end to no topic. If them was end to any topic them this Sajha.com be close and them Sajha peopal go home. You is needs to keep up them talk. Find them difference things and them points. Some peopal will them say points that fit you and other peopal.
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| sadabichar |
Posted
on 01-Aug-03 09:48 PM
Hope you have nice pitch for some jammings...
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| sadabichar |
Posted
on 01-Aug-03 09:48 PM
Rasta+Fariya, which brand you are on these days?
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