| Username |
Post |
| Biswo |
Posted
on 22-Jul-03 07:14 AM
A lot of people cite KTM's roads as general nuisance for the whole nation,and I won't be the one to demur. It was not always like this. Historically,KTM, which also controlled Sindhupalchouk, was famous for being a citystate in the trade route between India and China.During 1641-1715AD, KTM was in the peak of prosperity due to relative peace prevalent in Nepal, China and India,which ensured smooth business. During this period, the ordinary 'gajur' of KTM's temples were supplanted with gold gajur. KTM's businesses included the lucrative minting business for which Tibet used to provide pure gold/silver, and KTM would provide gold coins of different denominations, and the handicraft business.
---
53 nations were tucked along the Himalayan range even in relatively peaceful time of that past. The 22se, 24se, Gorkha, Three of Valley, Three of Terai(Chaudandi, Makwanpur and Vijaypur). Gorkha was often forced to buy salts via KTM, but during early seventeenth century, Gorkha was fed up with the unstable politics and policy of KTM, and king Ram Shah made a deal directly with Tibet to import salt directly. A new route to Tibet was thus developed which used to go northward along Kaligandaki river and then passed Larke Himal. This was the first major alternative route from Tibet to Nepal. King Narbhupal Shah later had to fight with the Tibetans to enforce the regularity of this route and open up a route to Kerung.
---
By the time Prithvi Narayan Shah ruled Nepal, the importance of the trade route with Tibet was obvious to all of our rulers. But when Prithvi was beleaguring KTM, its rulers were running out of money and had defrauded Tibetans by sending them adulterated coins instead of pure silver/gold coins. The Tibetans were also unhappy with the instability of KTM, and had then opened up alternative trade routes to India via Sikkim and Bhutan. King Prithvi had two options to safeguard his economic interests: to accomodate Tibetans who were demanding that Prithvi's Nepal pay for Malla Nepal's dishonesty or to fight. He 'almost' chose the first. Prithvi and his succesors were successful in 'almost' closing those new routes in the successive years , even using arms when necessary. But the chasm in Nepalese monopoly in Indo-Tibetan trade route was already open.
--
So, in this context, when the two prime ministers of India and China met last month and decided to open up 'Nathula' pass route between India and China, we were seeing the usual historical trend: that whenever Nepal has been in distress, our neighbors had sought another route to trade.When we were strong,we made sure that such route never materialized. So it is in our interest that we oppose any other such openings, which of course we can't do rightnow. Now that almost the whole Sindhupalchouk 'pradesh' is under Maoists control, we have no other choice but to sit and see our 'time-honored' source of fortune being taken away.We benefitted for centuries from that route, but we never modernized that route, we never constructed expressways or anything, anyone could open an alternative route and rival us along that long Himalayan range. It just happened.
--
Finally, about other roads in Nepal.
Contrary to King Gyanendra's blusters about his peace initiatives, the peace talks are in shambles, and Narayan Pun's peace bus has now fallen flat. The nation is now bracing for another round of war. Yesterday, I felt the pang of this breakdown of talk and new rumours. I still believe this new Maoist behavior is their bargaining tantrum, but who is that genius who wanted the Maoist office secretary to be arrested? Anyway, the nation is effectively controlled by the 'minority'Maoists in the country side. In teastalls around the nation,canards are freely floating around: that about 300 Maoists went from Kaski to
Lamjung yesterday, that about 500 heavily armed Maoists militiamen are living five kilometer north of Mahendra Rajmarg in Chitwan. No one can verify those rumours. I was in the Narayanghat bazaar yesterday evening. The road was for some reason emptied early. Rumours were pedestrians, and pall of fear had descended on the street. As I was coming back to Tandi, I saw The Hotel New Century in the Bharatpur height, bathing in white light, and then there were some NC-UML guys doing 'relay anasan'. Then came the military barrack. There was darkness, usual cannons and guards were not displayed, the maingate was closed, and one could see bulwark of sandbags inside. I didn't know how the war was prepared. I still am ignorant about how such preparations are made,but at a higher level.
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 23-Jul-03 12:02 AM
Thanks Biswo for your perceptions and interpretations from the ground...mauka mile, euta bijuli patra thoknus hai...thaniya khabar and all.
---------
Great historical glimpses...indeed trade and cities have played a most important role in the evolution of capitalism...Weber and his current admirers like Jeff Sachs would claim that they were indeed the "progenitors" of modern capitalism, giving examples of city states like Genoa, Antwerp, Venice, Amsterdam etc. Kathmandu would have been a terrific oriental equivalent if some of the characteristics of the "Occidental City" applied less ambiguously (major internal market, city fortification, own court of law, etc.)
Was also reading that Jung Bahadur (John Whelpton's Jang in Europe) had guff lagao in Paris in 1850 that his city of Kathmandu had a population of 400,000...when a more accurate figure was only around 40,000...If confronted, Junge would probably have said, eh euta zero badhi bhayechha! Even the "imperialist" Gorkha only had 12,000 "dhuris" a century earlier...when these are taken into account, we really are talking about miniature versions of what we imagine today to have been the case then by simply magnifying the past into today's scale. Basically, slowly I'm learning to read history like geography: Not to Scale!
--------
Biswo wrote: "Gorkha was often forced to buy salts via KTM, but during early seventeenth century, Gorkha was fed up with the unstable politics and policy of KTM, and king Ram Shah made a deal directly with Tibet to import salt directly. A new route to Tibet was thus developed which used to go northward along Kaligandaki river and then passed Larke Himal."
Biswo, I personally re-traced this ancient Salt route up to the Tibetan border ten years ago, by walking for 12 days. It is a fascinating trail that goes up the Budhigandaki (not Kaligandaki), past the Manashalu-Boudha-Himalchuli range, and you are in Bhot, on the other side. That's where my great grandfathers went to buy salt from the lower hills of Gorkha...from my grandfather's time onwards, they started coming to Kathmandu via Trishuli (5 days), Gorkha Bazaar, or a tiny shanty town called Narayanghat.
There is actually a family song/poem that my great grandfather/uncle composed after coming back from their last salt trip to the "Tibetan" towns of Lho, Samagaon and Saamdo north of Gorkha (where I reached)...this song was orally passed down in our family...I had it written down from one of my grand-aunts who was the only survivor who still remembered the words (they were all illiterate and didn't write them down)...I will reproduce this song below.
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 23-Jul-03 12:35 AM
"Won't force you, Sweetie, if you say nah!"
by Paschim's Great Grandfather, on his arduous Salt expedition to Bhot.
bihana-ko bhukbhuke-ma chale haata-goda
bhot jaana bhanne bhai ko bhotai-tira mohada
dori ko lisipisi khole-ko kaama
dhukure-ko khutkila-ma dekhyaun rama-rama
arko bihan bhubhuke mai parsad khai-wori
falek-ma hindna parne dhanna parmeshwori
pahara ko takura-ma mana mero runchha
ghar-ma basne naari le chura foray hunchha
chalyo hunni gorkhali ko Lho gaun-ma chinchha
Lho gaun ko Uinta bhote noon bhari dinchha
bhaari-taari haali-wori uhin basna thikka
baato samjhi lyaunda kheri manma laagchha dikka
hera daju-bhai, jaado bhayo kasto
raadi-paakhi khaapda pani deutai aaye jasto
paanch mohar pareko paanch paate paakhi
aaija 'baame' laija bhani bhotyani le daaki
bhaari taari boki wori chale haata goda
sataun din ko dinama ghara-tira mohada
khurlabesi oralo ma chaar-pau ghunda dhasni
umbho farki herda kheri bhuin-ma topi khasni
baadal basyo damma damma kahan basne bhai ho?
aafno bhagya takdira le thulai odhaar paiyo
aadi sathi kharane ma aadi sathi kahan?
bhet bhayo sirdibaas-ma jujjim paryo tyehan
chaudha din ko dina-ma aai pugiyo ghara
bhot janna bhanne bhai lai laune chhaina kara
----------
Old Village language:
Jujjim: a quarrel.
Hunni: crowd.
Uinta: Name of a famous Salt trader in Lho
I request Guna-ji to type this into devanagari please. Having also lived in my mama ko gaon, he would know the colloquial language.
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 23-Jul-03 12:37 AM
"Won't force you if you say nah!"
by Paschim's Great Grandfather, on his arduous Salt expedition to Bhot.
bihana-ko bhukbhuke-ma chale haata-goda
bhot jaana bhanne bhai ko bhotai-tira mohada
dori ko lisipisi khole-ko kaama
dhukure-ko khutkila-ma dekhyaun rama-rama
arko bihan bhubhuke mai parsad khai-wori
falek-ma hindna parne dhanna parmeshwori
pahara ko takura-ma mana mero runchha
ghar-ma basne naari le chura foray hunchha
chalyo hunni gorkhali ko Lho gaun-ma chinchha
Lho gaun ko Uinta bhote noon bhari dinchha
bhaari-taari haali-wori uhin basna thikka
baato samjhi lyaunda kheri manma laagchha dikka
hera daju-bhai, jaado bhayo kasto
raadi-paakhi khaapda pani deutai aaye jasto
paanch mohar pareko paanch paate paakhi
aaija 'baame' laija bhani bhotyani le daaki
bhaari taari boki wori chale haata goda
sataun din ko dinama ghara-tira mohada
khurlabesi oralo ma chaar-pau ghunda dhasni
umbho farki herda kheri bhuin-ma topi khasni
baadal basyo damma damma kahan basne bhai ho?
aafno bhagya takdira le thulai odhaar paiyo
aadi sathi kharane ma aadi sathi kahan?
bhet bhayo sirdibaas-ma jujjim paryo tyehan
chaudha din ko dina-ma aai pugiyo ghara
bhot janna bhanne bhai lai laune chhaina kara
Old Village language:
Jujjim: a quarrel.
Hunni: crowd.
Uinta: Name of a famous Salt trader in Lho
I request Guna-ji to type this into devanagari please. Having lived in my mama ko gaon, he would know the colloquial language!
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| Arnico |
Posted
on 23-Jul-03 08:16 AM
Wow guys! fascinating.
Does anyone know how far back the KALIGANDAKI salt trade route dates? That may be older, given that places like Lo Manthang and Kagbeni have very fancy gumbas (signs of accumulated wealth) that date back 500 years and more... and how deep into Nepal did the salt from that route penetrate?
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| marich |
Posted
on 23-Jul-03 09:55 AM
pahilo khushiko kuro, Paschimlai dherai dherai din pachi dekhnu,
doshro khushiko kuro, itihaskao pana bata " Biteka kura" Original Mix padhna paunu..
tesro khushiko kura Gorkhako serofero manamanle rumallina paunu..
" pahara ko takura-ma mana mero runchha
ghar-ma basne naari le chura foray hunchha "
Wah wah wah!! kya bore lai rathyo, manai ramayo.. ..
maile pani lamjung, gorkha, dhading ra rasuwa jillaharu nikai ghumne mauka payeko thiye jamanama..thau sarahi ramailo lageko thiyo..ahile samma manma chap baseko cha...
khas gari LUITEL muni Putalikhetma rati bas baseko, ani tyo gharki budhile bariko dhan dhikima kutera pakayeko bhat, parshiko munta ko tarkari, Mulako achar, ani mohi, PIrukama basayera tuki ko dhipdhipe ujyaloma khana diyeko,
Tyo rati Pidhima suteko, ratko dui bajeko( pratham praharko) nistabadhatalai chirdai urliyeko "aaayo!! aayo!! lagyo!! lagyo lagyo," Gharpetti aamaiiko kolahal sangai sabai gaule haru sanga lagera aankha michdai nispatta adhyaroma nadekhine Chituwa lai herne koshish gareko...
pheri kahile pharkera jana paune jasto lagcha..samaya sangai paribartit tyo chetrama..
Yo manche Paschim ,aajkal sutukka aauncha, tahalka macchauncha, kahile buddhile, kahile bibekle , kahiel tarkale , kahile biteka atitko samjhana le .. Ani usukka lagcha aafno bato,
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 06:16 AM
Marich, tapain ko aatmiya sambandha rahechha haamro bhek sanga, khub khusi laagyo!
I forgot to add a little disclaimer to the family folk song -- it's not smoothly flowling, and probably not how it was originally composed; it appears as a series of spurts of random verses that my ageing grand aunt tried to recall from her young days...as a demure buhari (probably a child bride) when her sasura would boast about his forays after supper over rounds of hukka, as the buharis did dishes in the dark aangan. I recorded it as my grand aunt recalled with difficulty with the missing flow and some words; but she conveyed the "essence" of the trip perfectly.
Arnico, don't know too much about the Mustang trade trails, but they definitely gave the Rana governments a steady stream of customs revenue, probably at par with the Bhimphedi Adda. Thakali thekdaars and Rana hakims, it certainly was a rich relationship in more than one way.
Biswo seems to have started this thread in Narayanghat, and now he's lost (Tikauli ko jungle?), so just to continue the interesting "Biteka Kuras" snippets, here's an interesting story in this week's Nepali Times by Kanak Dixit on Ramesh Dhungel's efforts to excavate the previously unseen papers of an early British envoy to Kathmandu Brian Hodgson.
http://www.nepalnews.com/ntimes/issue154/history.htm
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| SITARA |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 06:37 AM
Paschim ji:
Intriguing! Enjoyed your song.... although, I confess, I had to read it twice ( maanmaanai) and once outloud to understand it. Now, I really empathize with my students who are emergent readers with comprehension problems.
Biswo ji very interesting thread indeed. So nice to read you after a long time.
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| NK |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 06:40 AM
Fascinating glimpses. Enjoyed looking through your eyes, Biswo. How are you there my friend? You talk about "minority" goons almost taking over and Ashu talks abouts Kathmandu buzzing with wine tasting gala and little black coctail dresses. Is Nepal Cuba of 50's in making?
Felt previlege to hear your family oral history that has historical significance Paschim.
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| Paschim |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 06:58 AM
Hi there ladies :)
Thanks for your remarks. I suggest you check out the above link. I was quite excited after reading it, skipped lunch, and immediately sent off the following "letter" to the newspaper's editor:
----------
I must applaud the fascinating research work of Ramesh Dhungel at the British Library delving into the papers of Brian Hodgson, and must commend Kanak Mani Dixit for successfully conveying the sheer significance of that scholarship in your newspaper. Dhungel's work is certain to not only unearth a series of interesting facts and important perspectives from a history little known and turbulent, but will also hopefully lead to
some revision of established versions. They say victors write their own history, but one can always make objective amends to the first drafts.
Talking of revisiting history, last week in a bookshop in Europe, I was delighted to see a new book by William Dalrymple -- The White Moghuls: Love and Betrayal in Eighteenth Century India. One of its protagonists is James Kirkpatrick who as British Resident in the Court of Hyderabad converted to Islam, married a Muslim noblewoman, went native, and deeply irritated his Company masters. His brother, William, was sent to Nepal in the 1790s, and went on to write one of the first history books on Nepal in English, "Account of the Kingdom of Nepal". It would be interesting to see in these papers how Hodgson draws on Kirkpatrick's accounts, and supports or disputes them. Much later, Ram Mani Acharya Dixit, confidant of the all-powerful Rana Prime Minister, Chandra Shumsher, too, talks about in his now out-of-print "Purana Samjhana" how his Nepali draft of modern history was used liberally by another well known historian, Parceval Landon. Ram
Mani Dixit is too polite to accuse Landon of plagiarism, but he does quietly hint at the importance of ethics, language and authority in scholarship. Hodgson's unseen papers might also shed light on the named and unnamed sources Landon used later for his
own interpretations.
Further, I have personally been very curious about the stone plaque that the British left behind in Naalapani, Dehra Dun, after Balbhadra Kunwar surrendered prior to Sugauli Treaty of 1816. As a school child, I remember seeing a photograph of that plaque where the British generously acknowledge the valor of their Nepali adversaries. When one rainy day in the summer of 2001, I hiked up to Naalapani in Dehra Dun to find that plaque, it didn't exist. All I saw was a clumsy cemented block with a rusty trident and a discarded saffron T-shirt of a Jogi. There's an ashram, headed by a Mr. Giri from Pyuthan, on the foothills of Naalapani, where I was told that the Nepalis in DehraDun have a fest atop that hill each November. But no one recalled the famous plaque. Not
only would I be interested in knowing the fate of those inscriptions, but it would be worth exploring if Hodgson's papers can reveal a thing or two about the origins of that symbolic plaque. Hodgson's presence in Kathmandu was of course a direct result of that
specific defeat that led to the signing of Article 8 of the Sugauli Treaty with the British in which the "Rajah of Nipal" agreed to the following: "accredited Ministers shall reside at the Court of the other in order to secure and improve the relations of amity and
peace hereby established between the two States." Hodgson's papers already doubt the depth of the grandly declared "amity and peace", but I eagerly look forward to knowing what else Dhungel finds as he digs into Hodgson's doko after doko after doko.
-- Paschim.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 07:29 AM
biswo,
enjoyed reading your piece. will talk about this when we meet in kathmnandu. Ashu dai, bhetne hoina bhaneko..sabai sajha members in Ktm? Brook, bhetne hoina bhanya?
biswo, give me a call once you are in KTM.
*****
Personal
******
Bi Shuo,
women keyi he jiu, hao ma? wo xia ge yue qu zhong guo, beijing.. bei da.. ta ma de.. hen xiao xin aa!!! ta ma de.. beijing de tianqi tai re.. beijing de nu hai tai re.. re re re..wo xiwang qingdao leng.. ruguo qing da0--zhongguo de zui hao de pi jiu--ye re.. wo si le.. :-)..
hao ba, nin gei wo da dian hua..hao ma?
wo de dian hua hao shi 'si si san qi liu er si" he "si si yi qi ling ba si".. ni keyi fa wo dian xin (email) cong sajha. women ying gai he jiu..lao peng you.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 07:35 AM
good to hear about ramesh doctor saab's pragati. central department of NeHCA now has no one to teach Himalayan Studies.. harey!!! Sems like this is one oif the worst eyars for CNAS because all its best scholars are away.. Sridhar Sir is now in Colombo, Ramesh Sir in london and heard some are now in the netherlands.
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| rabinB |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 07:55 AM
Paschim says:
"Further, I have personally been very curious about the stone plaque that the British left behind in Naalapani, Dehra Dun, after Balbhadra Kunwar surrendered prior to Sugauli Treaty of 1816. As a school child, I remember seeing a photograph of that plaque where the British generously acknowledge the valor of their Nepali adversaries. When one rainy day in the summer of 2001, I hiked up to Naalapani in Dehra Dun to find that plaque, it didn't exist. All I saw was a clumsy cemented block with a rusty trident and a discarded saffron T-shirt of a Jogi. There's an ashram, headed by a Mr. Giri from Pyuthan, on the foothills of Naalapani, where I was told that the Nepalis in DehraDun have a fest atop that hill each November. But no one recalled the famous plaque. "
Maybe the plaque doesn't exist any more- but it must have been there at some point. I came across the photograph of it recently in a book titled 'Imperial Warriors'. Among others, it also mentioned that 'Balbhadra Kunwar died fighting the Afgans for Rungeet Singh' (not the exact words- I am posting from work:))
That relationship between the British and the ninteenth century Nepal wasn't exactly 'gung-ho' is not exactly cutting edge scholarship. Many works have mentioned the often precarious relationship, including the book I just cited.
rb
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 08:15 AM
Paschim,
Due to the snailpace connection here in Chitwan, I am forced to assume this infrequent visitor status. The mercantile guys were running good service here before, but NTC threw their (illegal?) VSAT connections (in Chitwan), and now Worldlink is the sole ISP provider here. Which means incredible congestion. Connection is such that I can go to Pulchouk, consume 'haawaa' in Narayani pool, and come back to see the page I requested just appear. Ke garne. Janakpur ko railway service samjhaune service chha.
Thanks for the info on Kaligandaki-Larke trail. I enjoyed the song. "Sankalan" bhanchha kyare Lokgeet ko maamalaa maa. Tyo tapai nai hunubho. An email is also on the way detailing the local khabar.
Arnico,
The saddest thing is not to be able to meet you here. Hope I will be able to meet you soon. I also went to the Sarangkot/Lumle/etc.. that you had so much rhapsodized about in the past, and I am grateful for your recommendation. Pokhara seems to be totally different now. A very clean city that won't look out of the place in CA.
Sitara,
Thanks for your kind word. I just thought a look back into the past will be very nice thing. The major source of these information of course is budha Babu Ram Acharya.
NK,
That's right. It is like Cuba. Remember the illusory stability that the elites were indulging in in Godfather.
I was pleasantly surprised to find so many good restaurants in KTM. Babar Mahal, Thamel, Darbarmarg etc look like Boston posh area. And then you walk a few kilometers in the roadlessness of Lalitpur, and you can see guntotting teenager shaking hands firmly with you and speaking in the jargon that 1940's China was used to.I am so much shocked.
But there is something else also. A Maoist leader , I would like to withhold his name but he goes by the name Amar in his circle and I am sure Paschim knows him very well, was suddenly here in Tandi some weeks ago. He made some calls from the house of my friend: he was assuring his friends that he had sent a few trucks to carry supporters to the general meeting of Comrade Babu Ram Bhattarai in Gorkha. A deja vu parvenu culture !
IF,
Thanks for the warm invitation. I will call you soon. I also have a plan to go to KTM. The friend of mine who is in Beida told me it is likely that he wil move to Qinghua, but I am sure you will meet him. I am also very much confident you will enjoy the acadamic milieu of Beida.
Paschim,
I was reading one article in New Yorker a few months ago, in which the writer reported seeing quite a few plaques applausing the bravery of Turks in Iraq. May be it was a letter from Baghdad by John Lee Anderson(?). Of course, they erected the plaque in the respect of their subdued enemy, but they wouldn't respect the enemy who really defeated them. During 1813-5's war, we fought in five 'morcha', we won in the first four, but lost the last one. Bhimsen Thapa didn't have military experience, and he found it expedient to capitulate after one loss, that is what I think.
Anyway, I was always curious about what happened to the general Ochterlony who fought the war. This summer, I went to a bookstore in London(UK) and looked for relevant books. I forgot the name of the book, but it was a recent one on UK's imperial past in India. It seems General Ochterlony had waged the war without permission from UK's central government. Since it used to take more than six months to ask for and get permission from the central government, the generals could wage war on their own and make some impromptu pretext. So, the rulers in UK were not really happy with the general since they were taking Nepal war as an example that the empire was really stretching beyond control, and the general were becoming kind of government on themselves. So, when Nepal War Hero Octerlony was proposed to be given an annuity of 1500 pound(I think this figure to be correct), a lot of lords were unhappy with that and they had grilled him and the minister who proposed that.
A fascinating past in deed.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 29-Jul-03 12:25 AM
>Wow guys! fascinating.
>Does anyone know how far back the KALIGANDAKI
>salt trade route dates? That may be older, given
>that places like Lo Manthang and Kagbeni have very
>fancy gumbas (signs of accumulated wealth) that
>date back 500 years and more... and how deep into
> Nepal did the salt from that route penetrate?
Arnico,
I tried to find out something about Kaligandaki route after reading your comment. I didn't find anything about the exact provenance of that road.However, here is a surprising fact. The origin of the route may be really immemorial.
Kaligandaki route was probably the oldest one to exist in Nepal. The first great king of India, Bharat of Raghu dynasty, after whom the name Bharat was given, had done Tapasya in the bank of Kaligandaki. According to Gyan Mani Nepal's Nepalko Mahabharat, Kaligandaki trail was used as a route to Tibet, probably for salt trade by 22se, 24se regimes. Visitors from India also made trips along that route, replicated the Bharat-like Tapasya, as that route was considered the most sacred one. Kaligandaki was also considered the sacred one because in the bank of that river were the holy scriptures of Hinduism written, including Vedas.It was also the same river where Shaligram could be found.
People always believed that some great holy figure would be born along the bank of Kaligandaki, and rescue this sinful world from the influence of Kali. Around 1860BS, A person declared himself an incarnation of Krishna, and staged mutiny against the newly created kingdom of Nepal, and made his own little kingdom. He created a small kingdom there by being the first one to revolt against new Nepal after the conclusive subjugation of 22se,24se regimes by Shahs, and was later crushed by govt of Nepal.However, the people of the region had really believed his tale.They always thought that a holy figure would be born along the bank of Kaligandaki, and this new charlatan had only confirmed what they had believed.They backed him until he was crushed.
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