| Username |
Post |
| DWI |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 05:25 AM
I had been hearing about the Kirat movement for quite a while now, but wasn't sure about the seriousness of the situation. It seems that the two Kirati movements of eastern Nepal have joined the force and Maoists are fully supporting them.
Is it the next worse thing after Maoist insurgency or the Kirats deserve what they want? Could somebody enlighten on this subject? How severe and serious is this issue in the present context?
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 07:08 AM
its very serious, dwi. nepal at this point does not need a separatist nationalist movement.
i wish i could spend more time on this but k garney, all that beer i drank this afternoon is having its after effect on my brain.. but, i'll get back to this later..
kathmandu kina yesto garmee bhako yaar? maryo garmee le......
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| KaleKrishna |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 07:30 AM
Maoists are digging their own grave, as any ethnic division will divert attention from real problem i.e equality, progress and prosperity
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| bhenda2 |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 07:44 AM
Nepal ra Nepali ko bhawisya ta andhakar dekchu ma...aba ke huney hola?
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| Sadabichar |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 07:54 AM
All sides are playing games... but they don't know why, what for, they are playing game.
I always used to say, the mentality and nature of Nepalese people demands a big Bhote-Talcha that will close the big gate of Nepal so that no one can enter the country for couple of decades. But before locking that gate, empty the country first, so that all the nepalese would go pardesh as Ram went to Banbas.
If only that's possible, alas.
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| neta_ji |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 09:57 AM
What did the ethnic communities like KIRAT got after becoming the part of Nepali state in the last approximately 240 years ?
Ans. Nothing more than total isolation form participating in national affairs, society, politics, economics, education etc.
They have raised the tattered flag and more of the other ethnic communities are likely to follow for eg. Tharus in the plains of mid-west region, Magars and Gurungs in the western region, Tamangs in cental region, Madeshasi in plains of east and center and Kirants in the eastern region. etc.
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| DWI |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 10:23 AM
Being cautious about sounding biased, I thus asked if the demand for an "autonomous administration" by the Kirat rebels were legitimate or not. Neta_ji brought a good point and that subject has been an article of debate in most other threads posted here.
Kirat, Tharu and many other ethnic groups are indeed among most underpreviledge group of our country. The discrimination isn't only because of their locality or lack of educational and omni-directional development in those regions. These integral groups of our country have raised their voice, time after time, for the proper recognition from the mainstream government. What is happening is unfortunate.
But how legitimate is this demand for, again an "autonomous administration?" Small country like Nepal, which is already unfortunate being surrounded by her neighbour and being landlocked, may not be able to afford such a 'partition.' What about the region under domination of Kirats: Ilam, taplejung, Jhapa, Dhankuta and other eastern districts? Are they capable of their own entity?
Or is it just another nuisance (for the lack of a proper word, not that I am saying it is)? Another small movement fuelled by Maoists to show their strength to the Government. The timing couldn't be better, they certainly want to show the Government the price of not including Maoists into mainstream politics.
How severly are the afore-mentioned regions affected and what is the degree of their dominance.
In Jest: Isolated_Freak,I would agree with you point, except that I cannot trust you at this moment. You see you are WUI right now, Writing under influence.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 10:49 AM
DWI,
Just a quick note:
At this point, the question otf recogniztion and equal representation in thje governmnet is just out of question. its not going to benifit nepal at all at this point of time. once the nation achives its goals, then only equal representation and autonomus status make sense..
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| DWI |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 11:08 AM
Agreed, IF.
Does that answer conflicts your previous one on the severity of the situation? Are you implicating that their demand is not legitimate, compared to the crisis the Nation is going over? Would that be enough answer for the Kirats or should we handle it with more sensitivity, not that I am suggesting the lack of.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 11:15 AM
DWI,
Now this is what I call a diplomatic question.
kasto dharma sankat ma pareko yaar!! and that too tdoay!! hello:-)
anyway,
I am not saying their demands are illegitimate. its natural for people/.groups to see name/identity recognition, there's absolutley nothing wrong with it. but, there's always a time for everything and my point is, the time is not yet right to for nationalist movements in Nepal.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 11:17 AM
hatar hatar ma type garda yestai huncha
I am not saying their demands are illegitimate. its natural for people/.groups to see name/identity recognition, there's absolutley nothing wrong with it. but, there's always a time for everything and my point is, the time is not yet right to for nationalist movements in Nepal.
*****
I am not saying their demands are illegitimate. its natural for people/groups to see/fight for name/identity recognition, there's absolutley nothing wrong with it. but, there's always a time for everything and my point is, the time is not yet right for nationalist movements in Nepal.
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| DWI |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 11:23 AM
In one way I was defending you Isolated Freak. I wanted to give you a chance to correct yourself. If the words are taken out of context, they could be harmful and since you've posted your Picture, you might be a little vulnerable. I couldn't risk jeopardizing my saha-analyst's name for comments he didn't mean.
As far as the context, as I said, I agree with you. I hope the situation is contained in this manner as well. Justice should be bestowed where it is due. Peace should be restored to the deservant.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 11:27 AM
thanks for your concern dwi, but i think i ma fine.. noone's coming after me with a loaded gun or nango khukuri!
aaja lai yatti..
why its so damn hot in kathmandu today?????
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 11:31 AM
clariofication:
I don't think i conflicted or contradicted and I always say what I want to say..so, there's nothing in this thread by me that's not thought out 200 times before getting posted here.
My point:
Nepal does not need nationalist movements at this point because the movements will only hjelp the maoists achieve their goals.
the demands of the "ethnic" groups are legitimate but the state is in no position as of today to fulfill those demands because the state is very weak.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 11:33 AM
and when the situation is right and when the state is strong, then the state has to fulfill the legitimate demands of the ethic minorities.
namaste..
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| Sadabichar |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 11:49 AM
Bhote Talcha... chahiyo.
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| orion |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 12:28 PM
Recent history has shown that ethnic parties don't do too well in Nepal ( eg Sadhvawana party, the Janajati Party) and while the Maoist twist is interesting, I am still skeptical about the viability of such parties. I am a supporter of more ethnic diveristy in Nepal's governance and more empowerment of local bodies, but I have a feeling the Kirati Front is not going anywhere and will at best turn out to be like the Sadhbhawana ( a few seats in parliament) and at worse like the Janajati Party ( Janajati what?)
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| DWI |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 12:38 PM
Thanks Orion.
So based on the posts so far, it seems more like a small movement, overblown by Maoists to solidify their strategy. I hope it remains in the contained state, but their demands be equally recognized.
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| GurL_INterrupted |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 01:34 PM
So based on the posts so far, it seems more like a small movement, overblown by Maoists to solidify their strategy."
IJhm..."overblown by maoists to solidiy their strategy" OR the neglect of the ethinic & other minorities the cause of maoism? OR is it now that their voices are starting to be heard, they are implementing their causes?
IF writes, it is not the right time for nationlaist movement...when is the right time? Or should the minorities step back with out questioning taking whateverr is being pooped into their mouth so that the rich & "I am the bests" can continue to have peace while they struggle?
:-
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| Rastafariya |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 02:33 PM
Interrupted girl! what them you is askin? Them right time? Them peopal should just stay back and relax maybe go have some them Tongbas and Raakshi. Them not need no revolusion or them Nasionalism. Them will be fine them there is other peopal that is rules Nepal with them Just system. Why them peopal bodaring? Them have nice nice democracy with them nice nice leaders that likes equality and Justice. Why waste time?
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| thugged out |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 02:38 PM
This is good news indeed. Look, this was bound to happen, all right? Chinks and dotheads cannot get along, to be blunt. Nepal has to be divided, in my humble opinion. Western Nepal should go to India. I don't mind being an Indian citizen. In fact, I identify myself as a dhoti, more than anything else. The other half, let the Magars and them "Janajatis" decide. Bahuns= Indians. Fact! I'm a fuking bahun, hence Indian and proud to be one.
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| KaleKrishna |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 07:14 PM
Will it be the solution. Is there a sense of cohesion among the ethnic group, who is the real minorty in the nation of 23 millions.
I guess giving a small region and a comunity to lead will never bring out equality, the potential candidate of ethnic comunities should be provided opportunity to led the greater nation. What is it, going back to history where a village headman ot a tribe leader will be for the upliftment of the comunity.
I say good village head be made the head of regional administration, and the good one from there a national one.
Identity of every ethnic comunities have to be safeguarded and opportunities for their upliftment be given a priority, but personally I think division in any form will not bring out the honest desired results.
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| isolated freak |
Posted
on 24-Jul-03 07:32 PM
IF writes, it is not the right time for nationlaist movement...when is the right time? Or should the minorities step back with out questioning taking whateverr is being pooped into their mouth so that the rich & "I am the bests" can continue to have peace while they struggle?
OK, The right time is when the nation achieves its goals of economic and other developments.
My view on this is: let's encourage inter-racial marriages. The second generation will be half.. the third generation will be partial and by the time we have the fourth generation, it will be nothing but 100% Nepali. Na yeta kach kach, na uta kach kach..
11th 5 year plan ma rakhna parcha... Shankar dai, listening? :-)
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| Boke |
Posted
on 25-Jul-03 05:21 AM
IF Says: OK, The right time is when the nation achieves its goals of economic and other developments.
Nation has not and will not achieve its goals of economic and other developments until its people are fairly represented. Kiratis, and other minority groups, have started their own movements because they are tired of being on the sideline, fed up with crumbs and left-overs, up to the neck with being ignored by Kathmandu. This is the reason why they have now decided to take action.
"Yetikai basdai garnus, ajjha sahanus, ahile tyam bha chaina, tyam bhayepachi khabar garoomla." Does that sound familiar? I think we have heard this one too many times. Those power-walas in Kathmandu have been and will continue to ignore the citizens outside, and something has to be done.
IF, in the thread Bahun's Dominance, asserted that " Nepal is now going through what scholars would call "nation building" phase. In this phase, the state has to be strong and has to forcefuklly impose the language, culture and in some cases even religion. "
So when is this nation building phase going to end? It has already been about 250 years since Nepal was formed. And in those 250 years, we, the minorities, have been continuosly left outside of national agenda.
The state has been imposing language, culture and religion upon us. It has been imposed so much that our languages are disappearing, our culture is no long recognizable by our new generation, and religion? Forget religion. We have been blanketly labeled Hindu, put into a lower rung of caste system to subdue us, completely disregarding our Shaman and Buddhist religions.
I am not being communal here or being anti Bahuns and Chettris. For sure, lot of Bahuns and Chettris also understand where I am coming from. Even among the hated Rana parasites, there was Dev Samsher who truly believed in reform and good of all people. So, I call upon all castes, all tribes, all religions. For far too long, we have been ignored, it is time we make our voices heard.
Edmund Burke once said, ""The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
I say we make our stand now!
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| chyante |
Posted
on 25-Jul-03 06:51 AM
Bank in '93, I came across an American girl who was working on her Ph. D. on Limbu culture and traditions. I asked her if she has one thing to say about janjati from eastern Nepal, what would that be. Her response was, if the govt. keeps on avoiding and supressing janjati problems, ie. culture, language, etc., Nepal as a nation will have to a pay a huge price. In ten years time, nothing of sort has happened yet, but coming form a town with majority janjati population, I have seen and experienced the revolution that is boiling within.
Maoists are just playing the ethic card here. Out west they have established a very strong "jan militias", mostly of janjati background. In east, they still need to work hard to show a very strong presence. Here comes the Kirat Front in the picture to fullfill the void they see in eastern Nepal. Kirat Front is hoping that it will further their cause and may help them achieve the ultimate goal. However, they fail to understand or avoiding the fact that Maoists will never ever let them achieve their ultimate goal.
Chyanteko khudra bichar....
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