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| Biswo | Posted
on 11-Aug-03 04:54 AM
The way the Maoists controlled eastern Nepal was very surprising in that I previously thought it was mainly the western Nepal that they controlled. So, as I trudged up the verdant mountains of southern Solukhumbu, I didn't suspect the man who stopped me near Puiyan would be the Maoist. "Namaskar, sir" He said. I replied in kind. "Where are you going?" I asked, more out of curiosity. "Well, I would like to talk to you." He said. He seemed serious,so, we went to the nearby hut, where his two comrades were waiting around the fire oven. One of them was very young,he later told me he was 15, and he shook my hand very firmly. Others resorted to the traditional Namaste. On the way, my guide told me they were Maoist fundraisers. "So, you guys control this area, huh?" I asked. "People want us to" the leader did all the talking. I knew that they would not let me go anywhere without getting some money. I also knew, by other trekkers, that an armed small platoon of Maoists was marching a few hours ahead of us.I thought Even if I dodged those people, others would ask money from us on my long way to south, and later north. "Comrade, I will give you money, Rs 200.00, and I really want that money to be spent on something creative, like in schools or water cleaning project, and not on buying arms." They surprised me by not bargaining for more money, by not objecting to my condition that they don't use money to buy weapon, and readily fielding my other quesions, political and apolitical.Welcome to the Maoist country! -- In Kharikhola, a major stop in Jiri-Namche trekking route, we stopped to take our lunch. The lady there confirmed that the Maoists were marching around. She told me that the Maoists were a bunch of cruel people. "They think they have done a lot, but basically, they are a group of people who don't work, and extort free food from us" She said. I figured out that a small army of Maoists, numbering 34-35, had stopped at her house the night before, and had asked for food for which she would get no money.It hurts most when people are hit at the wallet. How about military and Nepal Police? "They are animals, more cruel than anything we have ever seen. The last time they came here, they beat an old man so badly in the village center, I couldn't even look at that. They thought he had some guns, which he didn't have, and would beat him until he would tell them about 'the gun'." Almost everyone would tell you that they long for a day when there would be no police, no military, no Maoists in their region. That day may not come in the near future. -- The east was not always peaceful, nor was always chaotic. The first time in the modern Nepal that the east rebelled was in 1864 B.S. when Bhimsen Thapa was the Mukhtyar in KTM. In 1862, Rana Bahadur Shah,the socalled Swami Nirwanananda aka Nirgunananda, had decreed that all birtaa/kipat/grants to Brahmins/guthis be returned to the state. This was called 'basaththiharan'. While it enraged people nationwide, Rana Bdr Shah was not a popular guy anyway, the major rebellion against it was waged in Maajhkiraat, the region between Dudhkoshi and Arun rivers, spanning the districts of Khotang/Okhaldhunga/Bhojpur etc. The rebellion was subdued with the help of national army sent from Kathmandu, its 19 leaders were apprehended, and except for six Brahmins rest 13 leaders were killed.The rebellion lasted just a few months. [Continue...] |
| Biswo | Posted
on 11-Aug-03 04:55 AM
The Maajhkiraat region also revolted in 2018. Then Nepali Congress, a party unjustfully ousted from power by the then dictator Mahendra, a descendant of the same lunatic king Rana Bdr Shah, opposed king's capricious political step of 2017. A few Congress supporters who distributed pamphlets against the king's move in Majhkirat were soon apprehended. Their punishment was ghastly and eggregious: those arrested for distributing pamphlets were sentenced for six years in jail. That was the Mahendra's rule. Then in 2031, the famous Okhaldhunga kaanda happened,when about thirty armed fighters of Nepali Congress were arrested, and killed before they could even start a fight.(There was a mole with those fighters all the way!) Most prominent among Okhaldhunga fighters was Captain Yagya Bdr Thapa, immortalized in "Lutiyekaa Dui Thunga Phool" by RK Mainali, who was sentenced to death while his appeal was pending in supreme court. Not that always the rebellion in Khumbu region was unsuccessful. The most striking example of Khumbu conquest was during 2007 revolution when leaders like NaradMani Thulung, Bhudev Rai etc led Nepali Congress'Mukti Sena to victory against Rana rulers. In fact, the first time Prithvi Narayan Shah sent his fabled Sirdar Ram Krishna Kuwar, the grandfather of the famous Jung Bahadur Rana, to conquer the state of Vijaypur in the east, Majhkirat, i.e. the regions of Khotang/ Bhojpur etc, had mostly not put up any resistance, making it easy for Gorkha to win Vijaypur. --- This time the east is probably not like the past, its rebels more determined, more nationally connected, and their enemy in KTM more corrupt and very unpopular. I was also given an impression that the rebels want to join the mainstream while maintaining and striving for their goal. This is very oxymoronic, but they may not see it that way. I had an opportunity in my later days in Solukhumbu to meet with Maoist military supreme commander of the district. He was a man of 30, from Sherpa community. He told me his past when he was a cook in a trekking group and how he was exploited. He looked like a person from suppressed class with genuine reason to revolt. So are people like Madhur Nepal who was leading the rebels in northern Chitwan, Ramesh Regmi who was subcommander in Jajarkot during feared Kiloshera-2 and two other Chaudhari's who were killed after being unarmed and controlled by RNA just a few months ago in Chitwan. And contrast them with the Royal Nepalese Army captain Waiwa of Chitwan who almost killed the most admired teacher of Tandi one day because he wouldn't give in to his extortionary demand of money, or to the DIG / exIGPs/DSPs (Pradip Shamsher Rana, Sharada Prasad Parajuli, Ananta Bhattarai, Bharat GC etc, some of them put up good mask but these people are so brutish, they can be so ruthless that they may paralled the Serbs in Kosova.)who are rumoured to own infinite amount of money, or run the extortion rackets in Kathmandu and other cities. Drop by a discotheque in Kathmandu and ask who takes the biggest cut out of their income, and a lot of them would reply in unison: it is guys from Nepal Police. |
| hehe | Posted
on 11-Aug-03 07:43 AM
BiswoJee Thanks for sharing the first hand experience of Maoists conflicts in Nepal. I liked the way you presented some of the unknown historical evidences that Eastern Nepal is always rebellious. Keep up writing!! hehe |
| Chordaku420 | Posted
on 11-Aug-03 08:32 AM
Hello Bishwo, How about our own Tandi, Chitwan ? Tell me more about our gaunghar. Thanks, |
| Biswo | Posted
on 11-Aug-03 11:45 AM
hehe, I appreciate your comment. I think any analysis of insurgency needs to have some focus on the rebellion past of the locals. History, afterall people still say, repeats itself. C420, Wait for sometimes before rushing to Tandi's situation. I will write about Chitwan in future somewhere. Or you can give me a call to get updates of Tandi:-) One piece: When I was there, some people were testing water to celebrate golden jubilee of establishment of the settlement of Tandi. |
| Arnico | Posted
on 11-Aug-03 02:08 PM
Interesting piece Biswo. Look forward to reading more. |
| Nepe | Posted
on 11-Aug-03 02:48 PM
Biswo ji, Sajha was passing through a subjective phase of fiction, friction and bickering. You brought a fresh air of non-fiction reality. Sajhaites haven't have many chances to read that kind of reportings from the rebel zone. No wonder most of the political commentaries seen in Sajha look like some kothe guff, unaware of the ground reality of Nepal. Your brief report is certainly going to shock some of us kothe rajnitigya haru. But it's always good to know what's going on around us. Nepe Missing old and trusted friends in Sajha |
| Gunaraj | Posted
on 11-Aug-03 03:52 PM
Biswoji, Welcome back! It will be a different taste to read your pieces here, in addition to talking over the phone with you. Will be waiting to see your written updates on from Mugling ko bato, to narayangarh ko tas/beer, and tandiko sanitation to sauraha ko rajnish ashram (if you ever visited). |
| Biswo | Posted
on 11-Aug-03 10:50 PM
Thanks for your comments, Arnico and Gunarajji. Also it was nice to know some fans of Guanaraj's stories in Nepal. Nepeji,I think our political problems are so complex that it is important to approach it from different angles. I have tried to report my experiences here very objectively despite the fact that I am personally not fond of the rebels and their tactics. I still regard them as evils. But it is obvious to me that increasingly, the nation needs to fear more from the force that is getting out of control, that is being more evil, that is not responsible to anyone, and that is the force the king is relying upon to continue his rule, and I mean Nepal Police, Army etc by this. The Maoist commanders have amassed properties. They are also very cruel. Their 13 years old recruits are also very cruel. But how are their counterparts in Nepal Police and Army? Well, people now increasingly regard them as more dangerous elements, more harmful influence to society. Nepal Police Chiefs/RNA chiefs own so many unaccounted properties. Their jawans resort to extrajudicial killings of innocents every so often. How can they win hearts and minds of people? -- Here is a tale someone from Khotang told me when I was in Waku, near Khotang. Maoists had just attacked a military post, and were unable to overrun it. In stead, they had to run away. So they ran away and the army chased them. The Maoists went to a village. Villages in the those mountains are located at both sides of goreto paths. At some distance , near the top of mountains, are dense jungles. Those Maoists then went to the jungles. The residents of the village thought they had nothing to fear, so didn't follow the Maoists. When the army reached the village, they rounded up all able-bodied males of the village,and shot them, and returned, thinking they had just killed enough Maoists. No wonder among twenty plus people I knew to be hard-core Maoist fighters, all but two are still alive. During my stay in Nepal, I always wondered who exactly did the RNA guys killed during sankatkaal, and how they reached that huge number of 4,000+? |
| Nepe | Posted
on 13-Aug-03 12:53 PM
Biswo ji, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I agree that our political problems are, in their detail, complex and often the 'inside the box' vision is inadequate to grasp them fully. However, I think if we are objective enough and ready to think 'outside the box' when necessary, we will be able to see that all these complexities can be traced back to a very simple question or two. While the fundamental questions are really simple, our journey to reach there can be very winding and complicated. Our recent history is just following this. Biswo ji, you are among those few who have managed to keep the convictions and the objectivity unmixed. I haven't seen anybody else beside you among madhyamargi bicharak haru who criticized the Maoists so vehemently, and rightly, while not forgetting to tell the story, and what it means, of the Operations Kiloshera and Romeo. The information you brought of the brutality of the police and the royal army is going to be hard to swallow to our right wing brothers in Sajha. Even for some middle path walkers, it will be too hot a ball to keep in their hand and be stable in their path ! But the truth is truth. Talking about dispatching the truth in Sajha from home, I suddenly recalled how I had categorized some reports from our friend Isolated Freak as Al-sahafic (I have yet to convince him that it was not a meaningless name calling but rather a meaningful description of what they were !). Anyway, IFji has tirelessly reported in Sajha that the Maoists have abandoned the pursuit of their republic a long time ago (this was also featured in that humorous thread 'Why did chicken cross the road ?'). He might wanna comment on Baburam's recent suggestion to the king to 'swechchha purwak gaddi chhadera itihas ma aafno naam rakhna' in Kantipur Daily to illustrate their position in coming barta. Personally, I am convinced that it is too dangerous to let the Maoists rule the country, not only for their being comfortable with the use of violence, but primarily for their professed ultimate goal of a communist state. It is certainly comforting to see them swearing that they are committed to the 'capitalist democracy'. I also believe that going beyond that is their sure suicide. Because, if not yet for now, then for future historical judgement, the only legitimacy and the justification of their war the Maoists have is their fight for the democratic republic of Nepal. For everything else (there is a king and enough political parties, ehehe !), the war is not necessary. Anyway, it is sad to see that the leadership of our political parties are still confused with guilt, greed, fear and indecisiveness. I had told months ago that their 'jana andolan' has not been a jana andolan yet. And it is still so. In front of the mammoth promise of the republic by the Maoists, their demand for who should be called their majesties is less than a dead mouse. If the leadership does not realize it soon enough, their cadre are going to look up to the Maoists. And I don't believe that is a bad prospect at alll. I mean anything that discourages the Maoists from shooting for the dictatorship of the proletariats is good for the country. Yes, all this looks quite complex. But, as I said, we are very close to that fundamental question which is pretty simple. |
| Qallu | Posted
on 13-Aug-03 08:13 PM
Thank you, Biswo, for the interesting posts, espeically the history of rebellion and local civic participation against the oppression from the powers that be. Except for the immidiacy lent to the telling by your first person narrative, I do have to say that the stories your share of Nepal right now, of the Maoists and RNA and the plight of the unwitting locals at the mercy of these tyrant, have little to offer in terms of new insight into the current situation. Yes, the Maoists extort money from people. And they sometimes even give receipts! Yes, they are cruel and ruthless and prone to violence. Yes, the Police and RNA are equally, if not more, cruel. And yes, locals can't wait for the day, which is not anytime soon, when both these blights will be gone from Nepal's history. So what is new? And I disagree with Sajha's resident poet, the staunch republican, anti monarchis, Nepe ji, that you "have managed to keep the convictions and the objectivity unmixed." It is apparent to even a politically unsavvy novice like me, that despite the fact that you say you condemn the Maoists, you seem to be of the opinion that they are a better bet for Nepal than the "real brutes" - the RNA and the Police. Nepe ji: you say "If the leadership does not realize it soon enough, their cadre are going to look up to the Maoists. And I don't believe that is a bad prospect at alll." It is sad for me to realize (once again) that you would rather align the future of our nation to the will of these unscruples, bastard who will use and misuse the trust, energy and anger of multitudes of frustrated and disenfranchised people, including the very very young. If it is a republic you want, I think a replublic it can be, but making a pact with the Maoist for an end that they do not want (democracy)? And no, "anything" that discourages the Maoists from shooting for the dictatorship of the proletariats is good for the country is not desireable! Nothing is going to keep the Maoists from shooting for anything less than absolute power and dictator shit. All the pussy footing around about cease fires and peace talks is simply that, pussy footing and biding for time! The Maoist has been and will always be define by violence, self-interest of a few and betrayal of the masses by leaders who, like their counterpart in the "legitamate" political parties, have no qualms in letting down the people who trust them to deliver them from oppression. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 13-Aug-03 08:24 PM
>In front of the mammoth promise of the >republic by the Maoists, their demand for >who should be called their majesties is less > than a dead mouse. I think this is a very correct analysis, Nepeji. I had been to a few 'Relay Anasan' being organized by NC, UML etc. There were very few people. Most of them are still the same old folks who fought in 2017,2042,2046.So, I asked a few young political supporters why they were not joining.Most of them answered to me that 'There is no meaning of doing these soft things. This king has done so many egregious crimes for the throne and power, he is not going to give up easily. Needs some thing more radical program to energize us." The day I returned from Nepal, I thought repeatedly if the country I was leaving would still be the kingdom the day I come back. Mao had prescribed one martial mantra, including four tricks to fight, in his red book. One of those mantras was: to sorround cities from villages. In today's Nepal, villages are under the control of Maoists.Republic of Nepal may be a long shot, but it can be seen in the horizon if foreigners don't intervene. I think there will be chaos after the king.The Maoists would love to fight against NC, UML etc, and aim their final target. Anyway, there have always been transitional periods in the world history. Rather than spending time to save the king, nation's democrats need to think over a back-up strategy to avoid such internecine war in the absence of the king in the future. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 13-Aug-03 08:37 PM
>Except for the immidiacy lent to > the telling by your first person narrative, > I do have to say that the stories >your share of Nepal right now, of the Maoists >and RNA and the plight of the unwitting locals > at the mercy of these tyrant, have little to offer > in terms of new insight into the current situation. I agree and respect your opinion. Frankly, I always thought that Nepal Police and RNA probably had better reputation among the locals than the Maoists, and the Maoists were probably considered more evils among the locals. I am also a supporter of Nepal Police/RNA. They are run by our tax money. I want them to be good organizations. Since they are run by our money, they should strive to do things that make our life better, and safer in future.They are our organizations, but they are being run to prop up a dictator, sometimes by killing the same innocent Nepali brethren that we love so much. The ( extremely bad )image of Nepal Police/RNA in current Nepal was a surprise to me, and there in lies the newness that I think that I discovered. |
| sucharya | Posted
on 13-Aug-03 08:41 PM
Well said ! biswo ji, Nepe ji. One problem with Nepali intelectuals (who are naturally Madyamargi) is that they are more tempted to do politics with their ill-informed opinions rather than do analysis based on objective facts. Could not agree more with Nepe ji that Biswo is a rare exception !. Re the maoist problem and possible future scenarios, there apprears two clear paths- upsclaed violence and Afghanization of Nepal and a progreassive socio-political transformation (maintaining basic democratic features) with maoist force at the center. Main driving force for each ecenario would be to what degree the government decides to resort to foreign powers to solve the issue. There is no dearth of stupid hawks who dreams of US helicopter guships flying over Nepali sky and eliminating Maoists. Before the emergency, the RNA card was such a powerful trump card that hawks would need no basic idea about war dynamics to claim that "ARMY LE BHUTE PACHHI MAOIST HARU EK HAPTA BHANDA TA KE TIKLAN RA"- still they are reluctant to revise their wishful hypothesis thanks to the discovery of another term card- US help. In fact, complexity of the problem suggests situation of what economists call "multiple equlibria". The action of all parties- palace, political parties and maoist- would determine the future course. The rationality on the part of each of these actor is the most important factor to lead the process towards the desirable end. I fully agree with Nepe ji that Maoist should not be allowed to rule with their raw ambitions. One good thing, I however, observed with Maoist leadership is that they respond to incentives, and they appears to be more informed about the possible risks and rational (at least when compared with the rightist hawks) on striking a resonable compromise. There is no doubt that they have gained significant political mileage and which is far enough to claim political legitimacy. We cant not dismiss them simply as a group of blood thirsty thugs. This kind of appolitical observations serve no purpose other than pushing them toward more terrorism. As Hegel puts that the original source of state's legitimacy is the ablity to inflict voilence to others. So, politically (or philoshophically) saying, maoist has simply resorted to the first principle. We do not need to test further their determinination and ability to engage into the voilence. And it is also well know about the ability of our state machinary. So best way is to try to dilute Maoist agenda to make it more agreeable for a progressive and democratic society and LET THEM RULE imposing necessary contraints. We do not need to worry; if they happen to misadventure with some of the outdated items of communist's agenda, the complexity of the situation will not allow them to go on. I do not think they are so fool to run after such agenda. sucharya -------------------- |
| Qallu | Posted
on 13-Aug-03 09:33 PM
Point well taken, Biswo ji. Though of course I am surprised that you were so surprised about the nasty public image of RNA/police by local people. As far as institutions go, they have to be two of the most corrput ones. The assertion about whether they are propping up a "dictator" though is arguable and again, is a matter of perspective in terms of what one's particular political vision is for Nepal. Rather than "giving" legitamacy to these blood thirsty thugs (not my words, but I like them), I would rather see how the current legitamate institutions can be reformed and made more accountable!! Until and unless the Maoist PROVE to the people their genuine committment to the welbeing, safety and prosperity of Nepalis in a FREE and DEMOCRATIC state through sustained engagement in peace dialogue and complete disarmament, it is a grave mistake and politically unsound to think that "letting them rule" will lead to peace. "This kind of appolitical observations serve no purpose other than pushing them toward more terrorism." Just like the failings of RNA and the police and the ultimate responsibilty of reforming our state's legitamate enforcer lies with the current government, the onus of stopping the Maoists' terrorism is theirs and theirs alone and their misdeeds simply cannot be attributed to any "apolitical observations." "I do not think they are so fool to run after such agenda." Well, I guess I am a cynic then. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 14-Aug-03 05:52 AM
Sucharyaji, The political leadership of Maoists may be trying to be moderate, though no proof exists, but their rank and file is not. And that is the major problem that I see. To be that much motivated, one needs to be extreme, it seems to me, and the cadres of Maoists are mostly extreme. I also don't think they are popular, the villagers don't embrace them in most of the places that they control, or are trying to control.They need to work hard to win the hearts of mind. A fair election in the republic of Nepal may be theoretical palatable solution to all. But will it happen anytime soon? Qalluji, I take things seriously. If someone is there fighting to save democracy, he needs to be clean and nice enough to win the hearts of locals.The police and the army have just failed us. |
| Nepe | Posted
on 14-Aug-03 12:53 PM
Qallu ji, Haven't have a chance to welcome you to Sajha in my capacity of a resident poet. So here it is. A warm welcome to Sajha, a world of diversity of beliefs, tastes, attitude and changing scenes. Now, on your arguments, I am still not clear what exactly you are suggesting. Why don't you give an overview of your own recommendations to solve the political problem of Nepal ? Then, perhaps, it will be easier to locate exactly where we agree or disagree. I certainly agree with you on idea of 'reforming' the 'legitimate' institutions. Sooner or later that's where the nation re-building is going to start from. However, how do you suggest to get rid of the 'illegitimate' blood thirsty thugs, the Maoists, who are getting more and more powerful minute by minute ? Keeping dismissing or cursing them won't do the job, will it ? Or are you still hopeful for the military solution ? And what's legitimacy when the Maoists can determine when, where, how and with whom they can sit and talk ? The notion of legitimacy makes sense in time of peace and stability. At the time a nation goes through a political change, by violent or peaceful means, the legitimacy equals the power one has. Depending on the gain or the loss of power, the illegitimate ones can become legitimate and legitimate ones can become illegitimate. Our legitimate political parties of today, NC, UML and others, were illegitimate yesterday and again legitimate a day before yesterday. The monarchy, legitimate today, can be illegitimate tomorrow. Hello ? If you are talking about the merit-based legitimacy, then to me, at least personally, the illegitimacy of the Maoists is their communist ideology and the excessive violence while their fight for the *democratic republic of Nepal* is their legitimacy. You may have different opinions. But that's what makes the notion of the merit-based legitimacy subject to opinions vis a vis a rigid idea. Beyond whether these mean anything or not, the fact of today is that the Maoists are a strong power even if they are a mass of bloodthirsty thugs. They were not strong, at least physically, when they started their war. There is no point going back to the history for we can not change the past, but let's see if we can learn something from it. So, I ask, who is responsible for giving us such a powerful mass of thugs ? I am not going to blame Girija and prabhriti. They don't have brains. I am blaming those who had brains, the Think tank of the establishment, the policy makers and advisors. Those guys who failed to foresee the future, who underestimated the Maoists or the gravity of the causes they took up, those dumb intellectual bastards who let us be in a false sense of security in whole last seven years, these are responsible for the gift of the Maoists. These guys who may still be enjoying the prestige of being intellectual advisors to the government, let's bring them out and ask if they were competent to the job. Underestimating the Maoists, however pleasant it feels for some of us, was the most unfortunate historical mistake the state of Nepal made. People paid a very heavy price for it. Now, hune kura bhaisakyo, aba what next ? For the time of great adversity, I find the light in the following piece of wisdom, A wise man is he who builds a home from the stones his enemies throw at him We don't have other options. *********************** Sucharya ji, You brought up things which, again, are very hard to digest tor most of us. I gladly take note that you agreed that the Maoists are not suited to rule the country with their education in a wrong school of ideology. Their historical role as an agent of change is where they should end. Once the change is achieved, their future relevance is determined by how much they succeed to adopt the practice of democracy and accept the indispensability of the capitalism. The metamorphosis of a political party is a painful but not impossible process. Often a single determined and visionary leader can make it happen. Can we expect that in Dr. Baburam Bhattarai ? I don't know. But a ray of hope comes from no other than our 'F' grade political parties, which were, fortunately, trained in a right school of ideology or taken a crash coarse of appropriate knowledge. I hope they will 'reform' themselves, as Qallu ji had suggested and provide the leadership or a share of leadership in building of a 21st century Nepal. |
| Qallu | Posted
on 14-Aug-03 04:51 PM
Thank you indeed, Nepe ji, for your welcome. I have no overview to give on how to solve Nepal's political problem. I would have no idea how to even begin. As for what we agree on or disagree, I have to say, I don't know if that matters terribly, for me at least. I am not an idealogue and don't like them. I do have opinions and I seek to learn from engaging in dialogue. I AM, however, for a free democratic state where the institutions and leaders are accountable to the people and people are good citizens. And while I guess I could learn to live with a Nepali republic, if it were the only viable option, that is not my first choice. I think that democracy and monarchy are not mutually exclusive. I think actually considering Nepal's particualr geo-political situation, monarchy provides a good buffer, a surer bet to national sovereignity than what our power hungry political leaders provide. This does not mean the monarchy and other institutions don't need to be reformed! Actually that has to be the first and foremost thing if they want to maintain legitamacy and gain credibility and the people's support. I doubt the capacity of either to do it though honestly, which is really really bad news i my opinion and quite pathetic. About cursing the Maoist... it's more a cathartic excercise really. But again, "blood thirsty thugs" were NOT my words, but borrowed from Sucharya. I don't think the military solution will work, at least not in the ground war scenario. I am starting to think that there should be more covert operations to target the Maoist rebel leaders. What do you think? Is that totally unrealistic? I guess, as you can tell, when push comes to shove I am unabashedly of the old sam dam danda bhed school of tought. For you the Maoists are illegitimate because of the communist ideology and the excessive violence and legitamate for "their fight for the democratic republic of Nepal." Personally, the Maoists (leaders) are illegitamate because I beleive they are not driven by ideology, but opportunitism. The Maoist foot soldiers like the RNA and police ones are mere embittered, uneducated, frightened and out of control grunts. And so far they have failed to prove their committment to "democracy" republic or otherwise. They keep resorting to violence and scare tactics. And maybe you are not going to blame Girija, I am. He is a criminal and someoue should kick him, hard. As for the "Think tank", the policy makers and advisors I agree with you. They were and remain sychophants and big suck asses. I think they saw the future, but did not have the guts or the political will to jeapordize their cushy chairs to speak the truth. Whatever it is, I agree what is past is past. What matters is the present and future and both are unpromising as is. I hope maybe the king figures it out, because I don't see anyone else being able to affect real change. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 14-Aug-03 06:37 PM
>I hope maybe the king figures it out, because > I don't see anyone else being able to affect >real change. Boy, I love that attitude !! This is an English translation of 'raajaa nabhaye desh rahadaina' I assume. As if our friend, Qallu, had been to the whole country, measured everybody's ability, and came to sajha to declare:"Dudes, I don't see anyone else in Nepal to rescue Nepal, and the king is probably the final answer". If you are thinking one person can solve Nepal's problem, then I have nothing to elaborate on this.Personally, I don't believe that we need any 'one' magical person. We are not going to look for a boy Navaraj to be picked up by sacred,sagacious, clair-voyant elephant, and invest him as the king.In our age,a nation is built together by her inhabitants.So will Nepal. I have seen that cities like Pokhara, Dhulikhel, Hetauda are changed a lot for better in the past, and so are villages like Sirubari(Syangja), Khumjung(Solukhumbu) and Ghandruk. Give people chance to do things for themselves. Give them power. Don't take away local resources to Kathmandu. Don't allocate 'birtaa' to people around you in Kathmandu. The nation will be built gradually if we work hard collectively. The nation doesn't need the king.We definitely don't need a king like Paras. I begrudge that damn 61 crore rupees that the king takes away from national coffer each year legally. I really do.If you do math, that is equivalent to more 1 billion rupees for us, factoring in the income tax that we mortal commoners have to pay.That's about 2 Lakh rupees to each VDC in Nepal. When they were given 5 lakh, the villages made schools and roads massively. Imagine adding 2 lakh to each of those villages. Once in the past, we have increased the tax in our whole country to pay the money one of our profligate kings spent touring brothels/tabaayefkhaanaa etc in Kashi.Regent Raj Rajeshwori did that to pay the loans of her husband exiled in Kashi. I think it was a shame. The whole nation was taxed just to pay for the caprice of one individual. Now, we are again basically doing the same. We are effectively taxing 30% of what each VDC deserves, and giving it away to the king to fulfill his desires.Jaguar riding, expensive Sari shopping in Hongkong are something we all know! However, the king can do one thing that can earn my praise: abdicate peacefully. I mean, when his stars were against him, Judhdha Shamsher had wisdom to retire early, and Padma Shamsher also had the wisdom to retire early.Why not his majesty? It will be great if he participates in the democratic, peaceful transition of our nation towards the republic of Nepal. |
| bijaya.m | Posted
on 14-Aug-03 07:43 PM
Mr. Bishwo, As I have read your long posting and the data given by you proves that you have a very good knowledge of Nepalese one sided history. When you have mentioned about the founder of Nepal Prithivi Narayan Shah you have forgotten the history and contribution of Bahadur Shah who made the Gorkha Land unto Satlaz now in Pakistan and Tista in Indian Assam, up to Soonpur (south) and entire Gorakphur etc was Nepal then. This big chunk of land was lost to company bahadur (East India Company). You have tried to undermine our national heroes and defame them by proving them that Nepalese army was facing rebellion in their own country? The contribution of our heroes and the sacrifice of Amar Singh Thapa when he objected the Sugali sandhi and left the army at that time, British had promised him four times bigger country than Nepal to offer him if he supports the British government. But his reply was very simple that Nepal Amas son is not for sale. Kuwar Balbhadra who fought the famous Nalapani war with the British, the British honored his gallantry of the brave foe in his name; it is still there is a shilalekh in Kangra fort now in India. Who later denounced the Nepal army not compromising the treaty with the Britishers left the Nepalese army and joined Maharaja Ranjit Singhs army and was killed in Afghan war when every single soldier was killed in his battalion. You have tried to distort the history by putting the data, which was furnished by, RAW to denounce the kingship of Nepal. Why you are not blaming the corrupt and bogus leadership of thirteen years, which has completely ruined the country, and Maoist revolution, is also their creation. The comrade in arms CPNUML & NC who supported the Indian hegemony in the name of democracy which clearly indicates if you go through the pages of joint communiqué issued at the time of "revolutionary" prime minister KP Bhattrai representing the "revolutionary" council of ministers. Why they have submitted the national interest and honor before the Delhi durbar? If you go through the Indian history you can clearly visualize Neharu was a benevolent dictator who got the power due to ashirvad from the British, after a treaty by which India got its governing power; that India will always bow down to the mighty British queen and will never oppose Britain, in any case. They have even signed that when ever and wherever Netaji Subash Chandra Bosh will be arrested they will hand him over to the British without any hesitation. The national anthem of India Gana gana mana adhinayaka means the dictator. It refers to the British King George fifth whom India salutes every day, even today. You have forgotten the Nehru's role in Indian politics as well as the hegemony India tried to establish against all its small neighbors. Mr. Bishwo I do not know from where you have collected all these data to destabilize Nepal, which is facing insurgency and even a war from Indian side. Why Koirala and Makune past anti constitutional bill to amend the citizenship law? Why? Past two times by the house with absolute majority and even they did not hesitate to send that bill as finance bill to the king. When king did not sigh it then they started threatening the king and even another Koirala brother, Sushil Kirrala had challenged and threatened the then king. Why? The Maoist problem is not a communism problem; it is an origination of Indian mind to destabilize Nepal in the name of race, cast, creed and regionalism. Which their Lallus like GPK and Makune are following blindly and playing in the hands of RAW. I want to know why India is suppressing the demand of JKLF, BODO land, Asammese problem, Naga problem as well as the long-standing Kashmir problem. Nehru kept the Muslim population bigger than in Pakistan after adopting two-nation theory to fulfill his own power lust neglecting the national interest. When they think that they are a secular country and democratic country why they are not complying with their own commitment which Nehru has made to make a plebiscite long ago? Why Nehru made a cease-fire after Pakistani entire army surrendered and created an artificial line of control in Kashmir? Brother, only scrutinizing the history of Nepal and trying to denounce the kingship is not going to fulfill the interest of Nepal and Nepalese. I want to ask you a simple question, why the people of Nepalese origin were kicked out form Bhutan? Instead of giving them shelter in India as refugees India pushed them in Nepal. Why India is controlling the chunk of Nepalese territory annexed by British when the British clearly emphasized in 1947 that they were leaving India as it was and all the treaties done by East India Company or by the British Government was nullified. In this way, India is posing as imperialistic power they inherited from the British Empire to colonize the neighbors? In other words I want to say in Nepali afno aang ko bhainse na dekhne arka ko ang ko jumro dekhne it implies to you or not? |
| bijaya.m | Posted
on 14-Aug-03 07:50 PM
Sorry for the typos, it was a quick responce. (please read past as pass and there are some minor errors). Thanks. |
| Rajendrarajbansh | Posted
on 14-Aug-03 08:38 PM
Why don't you write a book on it rather than putting it on the forum |
| Biswo | Posted
on 14-Aug-03 09:24 PM
bijaya.m, I don't know what are you talking about. But a suggestion may be worthy: pls note that my name is Biswo, not Bishwo. I think it is a good habit to properly read what others are writing .I always like properly spelled name, especially my name:-) |
| qallu | Posted
on 14-Aug-03 09:39 PM
Remember what they say about assumptions, Biswo. Unless you want to be an ass, don't assume. And sorry, but I am not your friend. But thank you for your typical highhanded dismissal. Personally, I can't say the same about your niggardly attitude! I despise those who turn to ridicule when something someone else says does not go down their narrow ghantis too well. But knowing what a staunch aniti-monarchist you are, I can understand how it must irk you that some people honestly think the monarchy has its purposes in the current day political miliue of Nepal. Also, please NOTE that it was only in the last line I mentioned the king. Rather than the KING - the person - it is the institution of monarchy that I have some hope from, albeit with trepidation and doubt. Maybe you know too many blind sychophants, I for one am not one and don't think that the king should be above the law, a parasite and unaccountable. The monarchy as an institution has to answer to the people. As to whether I have been all over the country, no I have not; but for each of the cities and villages you mention, I have my share of towns and villages that I have visited. And not only for touristy jaunt into the hinterlands on vacation from life in umrica. Should I list mine here to see how they compare? NOT! No one said Nepalies don't have the capacity to help themselves, prosper and do well when given the chance. Well at least I did not say that. So what are you talking about? I said, and I repeat again, I do NOT think that democracy and monarchy have to be mutually exclusive. Hello, you heard of the United Kingdom? How about Thailand? As for coffers being emptied by the, I'm with you. Like any civil servant, the king and his family have to earn their keep like the rest of the people. But being king, I don't begrudge him getting just a little more, simply for reason that being king can't be all that much fun. |
| sucharya | Posted
on 14-Aug-03 09:39 PM
Nepe ji, you wrote, "Once the change is achieved, their future relevance is determined by how much they succeed to adopt the practice of democracy and accept the indispensability of the capitalism. The metamorphosis of a political party is a painful but not impossible process. Often a single determined and visionary leader can make it happen. Can we expect that in Dr. Baburam Bhattarai ? I don't know". I am optimistic that if other political forces and Nepal society accept the maoist as a legitimate political force and a leading agent of political, social and economic transformation, and give them chance to govern, maoist would surely be compelled to balk at adopting the good feaures of democracy and capitalism. Take the example of Brazil's Lula. He was not any less Marxist before he was elected. Now his speeches are full of the World Bank and IMF jargons. Even in Nepal, see how UML was transformed. What was the driving force that compelled firebrand communist Mr. Madan Bhandary to declare at the Tundikhel mass meeting that "if King obeys the constitution, UML has no problem in accepting monarcy"? Was it due to "the right school of ideology" or due to practical compulsion to "protect" the achievement in term of establishing UML as major political force under the new political regime. So, my point is simple. We tried all other options. Let's give maoist a chance to goverern and see if they are any different. And it would be most effective incentive for them to dilute their agenda and accept the values of civilized society. Maoists government in Nepal is not same as "Mao's rule in China". We have strong internal and external safeguards to severely constraint the possible totalaterian ambitions of maoists. Alternative to this is prolonged civil war, intervention by foreign powers and ruin of the nation..... Does it lead to any better scenario than "BRB as PM now" could lead to? Sucharya ----------------------------- |
| Biswo | Posted
on 14-Aug-03 10:00 PM
OK, Qallu. I guess I figured it out: you have the hope from the INSTITUTE of monarchy. Perhaps you wrote this because I mentioned Paras. Listen, I no more have the faith on whatever that institute is, and I am in sajha long enough to contest with others in the past favouring constitutional monarchy. The reason is simple: they have looted us traditionally. They are the one to clamp down on democracy. They are the one to bring instability in the nation. Monarchy is an institute, but it is the institute headed now by Gyanendra, then by Paras, and so on. Why should I have faith on this institute? Why would other Nepali have? If you go outside Kathmandu, you will find that people have stopped to hope anything from the institute of monarchy. |
| bijaya.m | Posted
on 14-Aug-03 10:52 PM
Mr.Biswo, When you say you dont know what I have written then instead of giving the reply you are trying to force your own absurd views to convince others? I have tried to show you few examples of history of my country and my neighboring country. Their interference in our affairs; other wise it is none of my concern to praise or criticize you. When you reiterate the erroneous history to denounce the kingship of Nepal, systematically, I on the other hand tried to show you the history that I know and proud of. I also tried to show you that that your definition of democracy also produces a family rule like Nehru's family and Lalu's family rule in India; likewise GP Koirala, BP Korala, MP Koirala, brothers of one father, Sushil Koirala (others Koirala of the same family born to rule?) as they have produced themselves as ruling powers to govern the country in the disguise of democracy, in our country. Otherwise kindly try to prove, not with your assumptions but with the realities of history. Why do you criticize the present king with adamant assumption and baseless hatred? At this juncture when the nation is in crisis, who will take the responsibility for the nation? He is the King. If you think GPK's action is the only democracy and Lalu's rule in Bihar is the future of your definition of democracy, I have nothing to say to you. I hope I have made myself clear. Thanks. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 15-Aug-03 06:23 AM
>When you reiterate the erroneous > history to denounce the kingship of Nepal What do you mean by reiterating 'errorenous' history? Which part is erroneous? >..He is the King. If you think GPK's action is the > only democracy and Lalu's rule in Bihar is the >future of your definition of democracy, I have >nothing to say to you King? Well, people don't think that way. The king was always there in Nepal and the nation is teetering today and yesterday and since long. How difference was Nepal in 2046 and Bihar then? We were almost same.In fact, Bihar had better industrial infrastructure. It is easy to denounce Bihar as if we are running Singapore. And did I say GPK's action is only democracy to me? Since you assume wrong things, I don't care whether you have anything to say to me or not. |
| Qallu | Posted
on 15-Aug-03 09:37 AM
Biswo, tell me, your assertion - "If you go outside Kathmandu, you will find that people have stopped to hope anything from the institute of monarchy." is that a conclusion based on research? Or was it simply a conclusion YOU reached from your travels around a few villages and towns? People often tell you what they think YOU ant to hear, so I would not be counting on a few encounters to come to a conclusion about what others think. Anyway, I am not going to argue with you that the monarchy has had its problems. There have been kings who were nutcases, power hungry bruts, retards, murders, ineffectual jack asses, theives and yada yada. But I think the other "leaders" have also proved they can compete with the kings of past. Should we give up on democracy because of them? Yeah, Paras does not sounds very promising, but hopefully Gyanendra, the king realizes that monarchy is more than one person and will look at the instituion itself, at his own practices and reform the way things are done to that he CAN affect positive change. That is my hope (regardless of what others outside the valley might think according to you). But it is probably unlikely it will happen anyhow. As for faith, I for one have lost faith in those "leaders" who made promises of democracy and freedom only to rob us, trick us and betray us anew. I think we both understand where the other stands, at least I think I do. If you have questions, feel free to ask, but this really does not feel like a dialogue, but simple reiteration of our unique world views. Which is getting really boring, wouldn't you agree? |
| Nepe | Posted
on 15-Aug-03 12:18 PM
Qallu ji, You wrote: > I AM, however, for a free democratic state where >the institutions and leaders are accountable to the >people and people are good citizens. Well, then, I think we have similar views except on the monarchy and the solution to the *Maoist problem*. >And while I guess I could learn to live with a >Nepali republic, if it were the only viable option, >that is not my first choice. Reasonable. >I think that democracy and monarchy are not [necessarily] >mutually exclusive. That's right. But in Nepal's case, it was, it is and it will be. A half-hearted democracy may co-exist with the monarchy. But that is exactly where the current mess comes from. Unfortunately a lot of people don't see it and some even get confused with the problem itself as a solution. >I think actually considering Nepal's particualr geo-political >situation, monarchy provides a good buffer, a surer bet to >national sovereignity than what our power hungry political >leaders provide. This is a primitive thinking, okay, Panchayati thinking, Qallu ji. Let me explain why it invalid and meaningless today. First of all, let's be clear about the sovereignty, the essence of Nepal's being. The constitution of Nepal 2047 defines it. It says that the sovereignty of Nepal belongs to the people of Nepal, it does not belong any more to the monarch. And mind you, this is only thing that is never ever going to change from now on. If you understand what it means, you would not be saying what you said above. Ram Bahadur ko shrimati laai Shyam Bahadur le protect garne jastai kura bhayo yo ! It is the people and their mandate that will and should protect the sovereignty of Nepal. If you don't trust the people and their mandate, well, then you are in the fantasyland Panchayat had created, not in the real world of present Nepal. Raja nabhaye India le Nepal laai khaaidinchha. Is this what your 'Nepal's particular geo-political situation' translate into ? As long as Nepali people want to protect their sovereignty, no power of the world can take it. If they do not want it, no power can force it on them. This is as bold as that, this is as simple as that. There is no point of losing mental balance over it (Qallu ji, yo last sentence chhahi aru Indophobic/Sinophobic fanatics haru laai bhaneko ho, hai ?) On your suggestion to operate covert operations to finish off the leaders of the Maoists to solve them, oh boy, what a brilliant and economic idea ! You must be hired by the President Bush. You might have saved his billions of dollars wasted to destroy Iraq. You could help him to solve other two axes of evils, N. Korea and Iran ! ehehe ! But seriously, you are doing the same for what you had joined me to curse the dumb intellectual think tank who advised for the Operation Kilo Shera and Romeo. Aren't you risking another Rwanda ? Even more seriously, which you might not like to hear, your understanding of the Maoists are strange. You might want to read Kathmandu ko expert on the Maoists, Mr. Deepak Thapa. ***** Regarding the monarchy, you might want to have a look at a sample of my views, - http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/openthread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=11327&show=all#30974 ******* Sucharya ji, I certainly hope the Maoists undergo metamorphosis to become like other mainstream parties (in good sense). But I would prefer to see other parties to become like the Maoists (again in good sense), having a revolutionary zeal for all round reform of the country. You and me, two posters in Sajha forum, certainly can not determine, who gets where and becomes what. But it seems, whether we want or not, the Maoists are going to be in power or share a significant power ruling the country. That's all the more reason, we should continue to fight the war with the Maoists. Not the military war, but the ideological war to force them to accept the democracy and the capitalism. The justification to the military war is losing day by day, not to mention the atrocities committed by the state security forces themselves needs to be accounted for. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 15-Aug-03 01:33 PM
This piece is really interesting. I also have a few things to say on this ongoing issue, however "kotheguff (credit: Nepeji)" it might be. I hope to return to this thread later. For now, I am just wondering on one of the points, which I am quoting below, Nepeji made. "As long as Nepali people want to protect their sovereignty, no power of the world can take it. If they do not want it, no power can force it on them. This is as bold as that, this is as simple as that." I have a question and a statement. The question is "who is a Nepali?" or "What makes a person Nepali?" and what is this "sovereignty" we are talking about? These are two questions? so be it. "This is as bold as that, this is as simple as that." - Nepe ji. Now, the statement is: it is bold alright but NOT as simple as that. It, actually, is extremely complicated than that. At least, so I think. I certainly hope to come back for an objective discussion. Welcome back Bisowji. Enjoyed your presentation. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 15-Aug-03 02:41 PM
Qalluji, One thing I never did in Nepal was I never expressed my view first, and asked others what they thought. So, there is no question of people telling me what I wanted to hear. Now you can be cynic as you wish. I think I went to a lot of places because I wanted to know what those people think, not because I wanted them to tell what I wanted to hear. It is very important for a person to be objective, and I am glad I was objective throughout my travel/interaction. Goodluck with your love to monarchy. Nepali people that I interacted with, however, would like to see it obliterated. Time permitted, I will also present here in sajha a report about my quest to find the 'supporters' of the present king during my visit. |
| bipin | Posted
on 15-Aug-03 02:57 PM
My two bits: Interesting conversation. The situation in Nepal is not simple and the truth is not balck and white. Not all problems can be blamed on the monarchy, and not all moves by the palace can be justified. Democracy must also answer to bread and butter question as well as the security status, and don't forget the corruption situation. Of course, the freedom of speech is essential. This is where the leadership of the parties has failed. I have also talked to many young party people in Nepal (my own cousins and nephews are active party cadres, mostly in NC), and they are unifed in their displeasure in the leadership. They think the party is going in the wrong direction. They don't like King's move of Oct 4, but they are not too happy about not being a part of the negotiation process either. Many of them feel Maoist's problem is more dangerous and not solving it could lead to more killings and chaos and curtailment of democracy. Problem is not with the party political process, but with the direction it is taking. Obviously, democracy also needs other institutions to make it more stronger and long-lasting. BG |
| Bond-007 | Posted
on 15-Aug-03 03:49 PM
Biswo Ji, Thanks for giving first hand account of what's happening back home and looking forward to read more. It's really sad that Nepalese are killing each other to defend an increasingly irrelevant institution (monarchy). Let's hope and pray that peace will soon prevail in our land and we will find a *madhyamarga* i.e. Democratic Republic in Nepal! |
| sparsha | Posted
on 15-Aug-03 08:07 PM
In my view: The dominant problem, the first one to begin with, in Nepal is socio-economic not political. This is not something new I am introducing here. However, I am amazed to notice how political parties and their leaderships exploit the situation with political slogans. Of course, political and socio-economic factors constantly influence each other. This interaction is complex and heavily overlapped in poor societies. Nevertheless, socio-economic issues can't be solved by political solutions. The issues may be pacified but not solved. Unless socio-economic issues are properly addressed, Nepal will remain in turmoil. It does not matte whether the nation is republic or not. Almost all the established institutions with political interests are corrupt in Nepal . Political leaderships are corrupt, monarchy is corrupt, Nepal police, RNA are corrupt. So called people's people a.k.a. maoists are corrupt. So, where is the hope for common people? Democracy, sovereignty are all fancy words. These concepts can't flourish in vacuum. They need support from the majority of the population to show what they are all about in practice. Where are the supporters? What are they doing? Who cares to know? Nepal needs a bold and radical leadership neither a hajuria jarnel nor a murderer. A good visionary leadership, which can not just make plans but execute them, is what we need. Every time a socio-economic issue (regardless of the size and extent) is positively addressed, it neutralizes a political stir there. Slogans will not make us prosperous. Leaders in Nepal should be active in improving socio-economic situation not in running a chakka jam or relay hunger strike. BTW, what the hell is relay hunger strike? "bhat tanna khayera basna jane bhok hadtal ma --arko round khane bela nabhaye samma?" Damn! *** [Haina, Nepal ta 5/6 jana mantri le ni chalne re chha kyare---40/45 jana bhate haru nabhayi nahune ta haina rahechha ni --ki kaso? :) ] |
| Nepe | Posted
on 16-Aug-03 03:47 PM
>I have a question and a statement. The question is "who is a Nepali?" >or "What makes a person Nepali?" and what is this "sovereignty" we >are talking about? These are two questions? so be it. Sparsha ji, True to your name you just touched upon the ultimate question of Nepal. 'Who is that Nepali, on whose shoulder is laid the sovereignty and the responsibility to protect it, who personifies the democracy that is and who determines his own socio-economic-political destiny ? This is a very large question and can be answered from many different angles. I will give rather a symbolic answer. I think his name is called Shree 51% for regular issues and can be Shree 67% and in very very grave issues can be something like Shree 90%. It is nobody else. >Nepal needs a bold and radical leadership neither a hajuria jarnel >nor a murderer. A good visionary leadership, which can not just >make plans but execute them, is what we need. Again, gaanthi kura yehi ho ! But we should not have an illusion that that might rain arbitrarily from the sky. It should come from the system. We do not have that system yet. Basically, the faulty line was the de facto sharing, therefore the dilution, of the power between the rajtantra and the loktantra, which ultimately crippled both. Its one or the other, that's gonna give us *a bold and radical leadership* that you talked about. A co-wife shared by two husbands is not going to bear that leadership. The constitutional monarchy was and is going to be an unfortunate waste of our precious time. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 16-Aug-03 04:12 PM
"..But we should not have an illusion that that might rain arbitrarily from the sky. It should come from the system." Nepe j, I guess we should better realize this sooner than later. I do not stand that far from where you are regarding the issues in Nepal except for one issue which I am mentioning below.I don't know if I qualify to be a Nepali but I certainly would like to. I think and feel that I have a Nepali heart. But I am afraid that's not enough. There is one stand-rather a major one-where I don't share the platform with you. At least, not yet. That stand is of Republic state. I am not convinced "republic" is the ultimate solution to all the problems we have. It may be later. Not now. Now, I remember in early 90s, if you didn't support NC or UML you were pretty much a "Mandale". When I say I am not yet convinced with republic state for the nation, some people might jump from their cozy seats and scream "there you go! a damn! royalist". I regret such labeling. Just because I don't fall for one alternative, does not mean I should be defaulted to another one (at someone's faulty conclusion) that I didn't chose. We need serious overhaul in political establishments. Socio-economic solutions are what we should be looking at first, though. Nice to read your thoughts, Nepe ji. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 16-Aug-03 07:25 PM
>Haina, Nepal ta 5/6 jana mantri le ni >chalne re chha kyare---40/45 jana bhate > haru nabhayi nahune ta haina rahechha ni -- >ki kaso? :) Sparshaji, pleasant remark. As for number of ministers, there were none during Rana regime. Of course, there were jangilaath, pukaja, dakaja, pakaja, ukaja etc, but the law of land stemmed from the mouth of the formiddable 'sri 3', and others were meant to implement those laws. Before Rana regime, and before the chaotic late-Rajendra days, Nepal durbar used to be run by his majesty and his bhaardaar. The bhaardaar included chautariyaa[king's brothers], mukhtyar, and the powerful 6-thare guys brought from the court of Gorkha by Prithvi. But what is the meaning of being/having 'minister' anyway? Isn't it division of labor thing? That rather than one man doing everything, letting those people who can do things better handle the field of their expertise. So having more ministers shouldn't intimidate us. In post Rana days, especially during Panchayat, ministership was used to entice political opponents.It was sort of a post which enjoyed direct protection of the king. That's how it started to have infinite perks, and that's how it sounded more like a stinky position designed to loot the nation. It continued in Bahudailya era, and is in effect until now.And so is the suspicion for those who hold the post! |
| crazyeyez | Posted
on 17-Aug-03 12:29 AM
a glimpse of the Republic of Karnali : http://karnali.co.nr/ by prerana |