| Username |
Post |
| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 03-Jul-01 06:06 PM
Dear all,
This board has been the hub of intellectual discussions among the nepali students/professionals etc living abrroad. As a frequent visitor to this site, I have enjoyed reading and answering to many postings as they have helped me in developing a critical thinking process. So, I check this board everyday (and every hour) to see if there's anything interesting or intellectually challenging posted, and for the most part, I come across postings that do challenge me intellectually and make me THINK.
However, when I logged on to this site today, I was really REALLY disappointed by Mr Sarki's message. If I am right, then this is the first time someone has used such a strong language to bash an entire group in this board. I am not writing this because he dislikes bahuns, but becuase he has started a vicious cycle. Tomorrow anyone can visit this board and post messages against Gurungs/Rais/Tarai people/ Sherpas/Newars and turn this board into a battleground in which every group fights to establish it's superiority against the other groups. Believe me, I would have said the same thing if some bahun had posted message against the newars/gurungs or vice versa.
Dear San, would it be possible to delete that message by Mr. Sarki? I know you are for FREE SPEECH and DEMOCRACY but still, reading those harsh words hurts many peoples' sentiments.
Thanks.
Trailokya Aryal
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 03-Jul-01 06:40 PM
There are two things we need to be cautious of while dealing with
such racial(better, we say communal) disgruntlement.
The position of low caste people is miserable in our social
strata. One things Sarkiji erred is about Maoists. Actually,
Maoists have the best record of honoring the low caste people. Two
of their powerful politbureau members are from low caste, and
in each of the jana-sarkaar they made, there is sizable
representation of dalit community(Source: An article of BK rana in
recent Kantipur.)I think, if a community is socially oppressed,
then it has all right to raise its voice against such
descrimination. So, go ahead Sarkiji, present your case more
vigorously.
But bigotry is not solution of such problems. By hating the whole
Brahman community, all Dalits can get is nothing. Dalits are
neither in majority, nor very educated in Nepal. Their inability
to rise atop the social ladder is inscrutable, since a lot of them
are actually rich, and government has provided equal opportunity
for the education of all citizens.
Also, Sarkiji needs to know that this site has the majority of
liberal people. If you couch your words in more mellowed and
cogent format, people will surely take you as a plausible leader
rather than reckless rebel.
So, I don't want San to delete the comment of the individual in
question. People have every right to vent their anger against
those who they think are against their interest.Onus is on them
to prove their charges too.However, I want to reiterate my belief
that writing vitriolic comments against a particular community is
condemnable,and people should exercise restrain while doing so.
|
| sarki |
Posted
on 03-Jul-01 07:00 PM
Let's face the truth.
Yes. Baun are ruling Nepal. Leaving MarichaMan and Surya Bd. all other prime-ministers are Baun. They won't like other casts get in to the power. They are now like the Ranas who ruled Nepal for 104 yrs. They're the one who destroyed Ganesh and his family reputation. Late Ganesh Man gave up the prime-minister offered to Krishna Prasad in 2046 BS (very kind of him). Now look at the Girija (baun). He won't stepped down until everone on his family and circle get enough share. He doesn't care his political party. All he cares is whoever hold the gov. or party should be a Baun. How many minister he appointed from other cast in his cabinet? One or two. Have you seen another baun Mahadev Nepal chicken out from probe commision?
They are all chicken! A group of chickens who are leading Nepal to become the most poorest nation in the world. I think we're second now. One more Baun prime-minister, we gonna be first!!
|
| Trai |
Posted
on 03-Jul-01 07:22 PM
>Let's face the truth.
>Yes. Baun are ruling Nepal. Leaving
>MarichaMan and Surya Bd. all other prime-
>ministers are Baun. They won't like other
>casts get in to the power. They are now like
>the Ranas who ruled Nepal for 104 yrs. They'
>re the one who destroyed Ganesh and his
>family reputation. Late Ganesh Man gave up
>the prime-minister offered to Krishna Prasad
>in 2046 BS (very kind of him).
Hey, ganesh man gavce up on the prime ministership, but his wife and son were no less than any PMs wife and son. So, don't only blame bauns.
Now look at
>the Girija (baun). He won't stepped down
>until everone on his family and circle get
>enough share. He doesn't care his political
>party. All he cares is whoever hold the gov.
>or party should be a Baun. How many minister
>he appointed from other cast in his cabinet?
>One or two. Have you seen another baun
>Mahadev Nepal chicken out from probe
>commision?
I don't know about this but we have had ministers belonging to every ethnic gropus in Nepal.
>They are all chicken! A group of chickens
>who are leading Nepal to become the most
>poorest nation in the world. I think we're
>second now. One more Baun prime-minister, we
>gonna be first!!
So,w hat's your solution? make someone like Golche Sarki our PM?
Trailokya
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| Trailokya Raj Aryal |
Posted
on 03-Jul-01 07:34 PM
Dear Biswoji,
Thanks for yoiur views. I agree with you that the dalits are at the bottom starta in our society's hierarchy chart , but as far as I know they are free to take advantage of oppurtunities provided to them by the governmnet. If they don't, then its their problem not of people's belonging to other ethnic groups.
Trailokya
|
| san |
Posted
on 03-Jul-01 07:43 PM
Hi all,
I would like to make my stance clear on this subject. The democracy that I believe in does not have any room for racism. In fact, I think that's the first thing that needs to be wiped out from Nepal (that we are not Chaar Jaat and Chattish Varna, but ONE race of NEPALI).
If these kinds of messages are posted once in a blue moon like today, and it does not attract too much coverage, then it can fall into the bliss of the archives. But if however it turns into a posting rampage triggerring any racial discrimination, then these messages will be removed. The line for racism is pretty clear and I am sure that it will not be crossed. I think we are all matured enough here.
San
'May knowledge from Lord Buddha enlighten everyone.'
|
| diwasK |
Posted
on 03-Jul-01 08:36 PM
Removing a posting from this board does not remove hatred that exists in people's heads. Lets face it.. communal hatred exists. One way to deal with this is by being liberal enough to allow room for such comments.
There are two ways to deal with a problem: run away from it, or deal with it heads on. Running away does not seem to be an appropriate thing to do for the open minded and diversely interested people in this board....
One can always make a personal choice to refrain from communal hatred. But it does not have to be locked in a jar.
-diwas
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 03-Jul-01 09:13 PM
Dear all:
I think dalits and even madhise community doesn't understand one
thing: in Nepal, there is no rule of Bahun baad, but only the
rule of power-baad. Nobody is given job/medical science quota and
other opportunity just because he/she is bahun. People get such
opportunity if they are close to power centers. So, there are quite a few dalits pretty welloff, there are a lot of Newaars
pretty well off, there are a lot of Madhise pretty well off. As
long as you have relatives,friends in power, you will be treated
favorably, and your chance to rise exists. There are thousands
of poor bahuns living in Parbat/Baglung whose aberration to Maoist
group was fueled by their poverty and lack of chance, there are
a lot of Newars in Khotang and Dolkha whose deviation to rebel
forces was caused by such lack of chances.If you are a friend of
TN Vishwakarma, you are a relative of Bal Bahadur Rai, you are
a relative of Bhadra Kali Mishra or Pashupati Maharjan, you
are more lucky than a lot of wretched Bahuns living in Tanahu
and Gulmi.
------------
Right to spread the feeling of racism and communal hatred doesn't
include in democracy . But democracy should be flexible enough to
allow outlet for all kind of disgruntlement of the society,
otherwise such feelings can fester over time, only to become
worse and affect our progeny. So, we should challenge such
feelings right now, and also we need to look for ways to
facilitate the rise of lower caste people in all social sectors.
We all are ,afterall, NEPALI. Equal in our constitution.
|
| san |
Posted
on 03-Jul-01 09:31 PM
>Removing a posting from this board does not
>remove hatred that exists in people's heads.
>Lets face it.. communal hatred exists. One
>way to deal with this is by being liberal
>enough to allow room for such comments.
>There are two ways to deal with a problem:
>run away from it, or deal with it heads on.
>Running away does not seem to be an
>appropriate thing to do for the open minded
>and diversely interested people in this
>board....
>
Diwas, staying quietly accepting racism is to run away from it. I'm taking a stance against it. If everyone took their stance against racism, racism can be eradicated.
|
| Dumdum |
Posted
on 03-Jul-01 09:48 PM
Facts courtesy to Sarki:
1. Girija doesn't want to resign, because he wants everybody in
all posts to be Bahun.
From :
>He won't stepped down until everone on his family and circle get
>enough share. He doesn't care his political party. All he cares
>is whoever hold the gov. or party should be a Baun
Counter Fact: Since Girija's own relatives come from different
castes,even from different religion, he is not rooting for
bahuns, but his relatives.
2. Madhav Nepal chickened out of the commission because he is
bahun.
>Have you seen another baun Mahadev Nepal chicken out from probe
>commision? They are all chicken!
Counter Fact: He chickened out because he is an irresponsible
opportunist who couldn't assume the responsibility given by the
king and the state, and chose easier path.
3. Nepal is second poorest nation.
>A group of chickens who are leading Nepal to become the most >poorest nation in the world. I think we're second now
Counter Fact: Nepal is very poor nation, but is not second
poorest nation. Not by Per capita income, not by GDP/pop ration,
not by inflation/income ration, not by loan/person ration. Check
your source other than the occasional rhetoric of communist
leaders in Nepal. Nepal , in fact, didn't qualify for the 36
most poor and loan-affected country's list last year.
4.One more bahun prime minister and we will be first.
Counter Fact:So let's educate our backward communities, and infuse them with courage and enlightenment to become prominent
group of community. Why you chicken out from that responsibility?
|
| The Lone Gun Slinger |
Posted
on 04-Jul-01 01:26 AM
If Maoists have such a high regard for the so-called low-caste people, then how come all the Maoist leaders are Bahuns? Take for example the areas where Magars are in the majority. Bahuns occupy all the top politburo posts while the poor Magars carry the guns, and possibly the 'bags' of the Bahun leaders.
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 04-Jul-01 01:53 AM
I don't support Maoists, but I want to present facts.
As far as I know, Comrade Diwakar is in charge of midwestern
region of Maoists. He is Krishna Bahadur Mahara.
The MPs who won from Rolpa and Rukum representing Maoists in 2048
includes Khadga Bahadur Budha Magar, Barman Budhamagar and Amik Sherchan. The later one is not in Maoist party after splinter.
I have read about the formation of the Maoist leadership. Apart
from two Dalit, I know one guy from Chitwan Chitra bahadur
Shrestha is in politbureau. A Terai guy sth Yadav is also in
Politbureau and now in jail.A lady Pampha Bhusal is also in pb.
I don't want to favor them. Especially now that they have exploded
a bomb in KTM again. But we should not suppress truth to suit
our argument.
|
| The Lone Gun Slinger |
Posted
on 04-Jul-01 10:55 AM
Yes, truth cannot be supressed. Your own words, and you are right there. You have spelled out most of the names that are non-Bahuns, which is less than a handful. By your own admission, the majority of the Maoist leaders are Bahuns. I have nothing against Bahuns, but justice must be done. If the Maoists are fighting for the oppressed people, then there should be more representation of the oppressed people in their higher ranks.
|
| Reetu |
Posted
on 04-Jul-01 12:28 PM
Hi Sarki ji,
which you have mentioned a radical thought against "bahun" whatever the ruling class in Nepal is not a miracle for us. since, prithabi narayen shah's period the bahuns' are being as a "rastra ko neta" so morally they are responsible for unfortunate of the nation. the word "Dalit" is itself a ridiculous because it never consider those people's parity in the society. so, "bahuns", if you have courage to condemn it why you "bahuns" are being so opportunist and against the humanity. why don't you appreciate those people who are illiterate and poor being in that destitute society.
Reetu...
|
| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 04-Jul-01 02:46 PM
>Hi Sarki ji,
>
>which you have mentioned a radical thought
>against "bahun" whatever the ruling class in
>Nepal is not a miracle for us. since,
>prithabi narayen shah's period the bahuns'
>are being as a "rastra ko neta" so morally
>they are responsible for unfortunate of the
>nation. the word "Dalit" is itself a
>ridiculous because it never consider those
>people's parity in the society. so, "bahuns"
>, if you have courage to condemn it why you "
>bahuns" are being so opportunist and against
>the humanity. why don't you appreciate
>those people who are illiterate and poor
>being in that destitute society.
>
>Reetu...
Hi reetu,
Not going against the illiterate and the whole of humanity, but honestly, I think you need to look around, do some research and THINK before you post your hatred in this board.
And, just to correct you, NO, bahuns weren't always ruling Nepal. We have had many ministers and 2/3 PMs in the past who weren't bahun. Plus, even at the time of Prithvi Narayan Shah, there were 6 thares, who represented all the ethnic groups in Gorkha, were made officials/ministers.
Trailokya
|
| Reetu |
Posted
on 04-Jul-01 03:18 PM
hi T. Aryal ji,
when social justice comes up we need to spell those "thares" whatever. someone has quoted on this web somewhere that truth can not be suppressed at all. people who were grew up in nepal, they might have at lease a peace of info and knowledge about nepalese society and their pain of being inferior in that society. there are thousands of social victims, which not supposed to be victimized unless the ruling class has humanity. myself from same ground as a victim of social recrimination in the society, i felt same way as did the "sharki ji". you guys never say humbly "sharky ji", you say "ji" does not belongs to them. someone has to be radical to banish the conservatives and liberals do not exist in the society. change happens when radical thought moves up. but fortunately, you guys are being lucky....and being able to "sarky" not "sarky ji".
Reetu...
|
| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 04-Jul-01 03:34 PM
>hi T. Aryal ji,
>
>when social justice comes up we need to
>spell those "thares" whatever. someone has
>quoted on this web somewhere that truth can
>not be suppressed at all. people who were
>grew up in nepal, they might have at lease a
>peace of info and knowledge about nepalese
>society and their pain of being inferior in
>that society. there are thousands of social
>victims, which not supposed to be victimized
>unless the ruling class has humanity. myself
>from same ground as a victim of social
>recrimination in the society, i felt same
>way as did the "sharki ji". you guys never
>say humbly "sharky ji", you say "ji" does
>not belongs to them. someone has to be
>radical to banish the conservatives and
>liberals do not exist in the society. change
>happens when radical thought moves up. but
>fortunately, you guys are being lucky....and
>being able to "sarky" not "sarky ji".
>
>Reetu...
Namaste Reetu-JYU,
Well, to be perfectly honest, I didn't use JI to sarki because when iw as reading his posting, I did not find him mature enough and/or older than me to address him Ji/Jyu. I only use Ji/Jyu to people who are older than me, and to people who I think have maturity to put forth their views effectively. Unfortunately, Mr. Sharki didn't fit into either criteria.Go back to my postings, I have used either Mr Sharki or Sarki bhai to address him, and in my humble opinion, that is being respectful for someone like Mr Sharki-JYU. No, i am not generalizaing and saying that everyone who is a Sharki does not deserve a JYU, they all do, except for MR.Sharki we are talking about.
Trailokya
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 04-Jul-01 03:44 PM
Dear all:
I refute the accusation of Rituji. Please read my posting, where
I have addressed Sarkiji as Sarkiji. I have respect for every
individual.
But as we all know, suffixing 'ji' alone doesn't provide with
the respect necessary in society. Rituji, I feel bad that you also
grew up with same discrimination, but let's face it, such
discrimination is slowly fading away. To stimulate that process,
our lower caste should grab the opportunity provided by free
education and constitution.
No section of community can piggyback all the way to the top.
They should strive. We may arrange for some quota, some
reservation but hey,that is not the solution.
Let's see our history. Brahmins were the only caste who used to
study in the past. KShetris were warrior and rulers, and Baishya
were businessmen.HIstoric evolution in the past hundred years
has changed that tradition. In Nepal, all those three castes are
now intermingled in their occupation and educational achievement.
Nation's top most politicans(rulers) are Bahuns now, while nations
a lot of top intelligent people are Newars.It is because they
worked hard.Weren't Newars discriminated even until Rana Shashan?
Hard work pays off.
The problem with Nepal's Dalit society is more intricate. Even
within Dalits, there exists another descrimination. Sarkis
consider Kamis to be inferior, and don't drink water in the house
of Damais...Such internal untouchability has worsened their
situation, and weakened their ability to rise against social
discrimination against them.
In the current environment, Dalits should work hard to get
recognition from other people. They have got legally equal status.
Educated people treat them as equal partner. There is not a single
serious proposal from the so called Dalit organizations that is
noteworthy until now.It is upto them to improve their status.
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