| Username |
Post |
| ashu |
Posted
on 04-Sep-03 08:40 AM
America is seen as a place where people can make money very fast, but this is not the only reason why people go there, or why people work so hard every single day. If money were the only criteria, the Middle East should be the biggest migration hotspot for people. But its not. People work for money, but they are also motivated to work for something far less tangible: the satisfaction derived from the recognition of a job well done.
Western culture looks towards the East for remedies to modernity: to reduce the stress of urban life, to integrating mind and body, to living a life that blends both spiritual and material elements in a harmonious whole. Due to the admiration and respect Western scholars have given to holistic knowledge from the East, most Easterners, including Nepalis, have come to take on a slightly superior attitude to what we have come to see as the materialistic excesses, the workaholic culture and the alienation of the West. But this, in the end, stops us from learning what we can about the many good things that Western culture has to offer.
What we often pinpoint as lack or problems in our own culture the disorganization of public life, the inability to share power and delegate responsibility, the lack of productivity and creativity, the corruption of public resources is not a natural or cultural inevitability. When we look towards the West for inspiration, we should try not just to emulate their material successes, but also the processes through which they get there.
Perhaps by looking at the culture, we will recognize why somebody like Bill Gates, who build one of the biggest and most successful corporations in the world, had to be a product of America not China, not India, not England. Bill Gates dropped out of college, but America does not have the stigma and shame of not following a socially sanctioned path that a Nepali boy would experience if he did the same thing. He was innovative and creative, again something almost unimaginable for an average Nepali child.
Can you imagine which parent in Kathmandu would be happy if their son dropped out of a prestigious college and started tinkering with machines? He started his entrepreneurial venture from his garage. You can fill in the blanks for the hysteria and drama that a Nepali boy or girl would experience if they took over a middle class familys garage for their entrepreneurial venture. But this was nothing out of the way for an American child America actively celebrates, indeed, glorifies, individuals who have built themselves up by starting out a tiny venture from their garage.
This ethic of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, celebrated in America, remains a matter of shame for Nepalis. I meet plenty of Nepalis in America who work more than 60 hours every week, send their children to boarding schools in Kathmandu, build houses for their parents, support their brothers and sisters, send money to needy relatives and yet will not admit that they work at restaurants or drive taxis because that would be a matter of dishonor for their families.
In Nepal, the affirmation of success will come only when the house gets a new roof, or the relatives get their motorcycle. Remittances have now become Nepals biggest source of foreign exchange, but do we hear any celebration, from the government or the people, of all that hard work?
In America, that land of instantaneous gratification, an individual working this hard is acknowledged moment to moment. A cabdrivers success in negotiating traffic, dealing with a difficult customer, keeping his head in a torturous driving situation, finding the quickest possible route to the destination is rewarded with a simple good job!. This is not the gushing and slightly insincere badai that hides envy, jealousy and competitiveness behind it.
This is a good job! that comes straight from the heart. Yes, it is quick, and it is convenient - but it also means what it says. This is why this continues to remain a country that draws so many people from across the world you can be a cab driver or gas station pump attendant, but youre doing an honest days work with integrity, and you get acknowledged for it, not just financially but also socially.
Hopefully, when Nepali families who spend years here finally return home, that ability to affirm a job well done will be one of the things they carry back with them in their suitcase.
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| ashu |
Posted
on 04-Sep-03 08:40 AM
What follows is taken from today's Kathmandu Post.
I agree with Sushma when she says, "we remain, surprisingly, a stubbornly goal-oriented culture, willing to acknowledge and praise only the most visible and socially sanctioned successes, never the process of reaching there."
I dedicate this artcle to all those Sajha folks whose idea of success is, alas, limited to only what is most visible and socially sanctioned and approved by one's equally clueless
peers.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
*****************
Good job!
SUSHMA JOSHI
Over many discussions with friends of Nepal who have chosen to live in America, I have come to the conclusion that one of the biggest differences between the two cultures is peoples attitude towards success. More precisely, the celebration and acknowledgement of success.
While Nepal might seem like a celebratory culture (all the badai you receive would make you think so), and yet the heart of it, we remain, surprisingly, a stubbornly goal-oriented culture, willing to acknowledge and praise only the most visible and socially sanctioned successes, never the process of reaching there.
When I talk about celebrating success, I am not just talking about the big ones: the First Division, the prestigious job, the rich husband and the beautiful wife, the healthy children, but also the smaller, day to day struggles that happen to us as we navigate through increasingly complicated work and social environments.
For instance, after almost a decade in the United States, I realized I had picked up the habit of saying: oh good or great! when someone finishes a small task, or accomplishes a tiny goal. This phrase, a small declaration of affirmation, still strikes one of my Nepali friends as a good joke, and he never lets up the opportunity to make fun of it.
And yet at the heart of that oh good!, which can seem superficial and overly bright to most Nepalis unused to thank yous and great jobs! is something perfectly and breathtakingly simple, and yet might contain the big secret of Americas domination over the world: a simple acknowledgement of a job well-done. It is a small moment of celebration, passing as quickly as it happens, and yet upon all these small affirmations is built one of the greatest work cultures of the world.
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| Intruder |
Posted
on 04-Sep-03 12:07 PM
Talking about success, if you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?
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| Shikhar |
Posted
on 04-Sep-03 04:41 PM
Here is my point of view on one topic in this article:
>> While Nepal might seem like a celebratory culture (all the badai you receive would make you think so), and yet the heart of it, we remain, surprisingly, a stubbornly goal-oriented culture, willing to acknowledge and praise only the most visible and socially sanctioned successes, never the process of reaching there.
I think a goal-oriented culture is not exclusive to Nepal or Asian countries for that matter. I think we just view success differently.
Americans, in my opinion are as goal-oriented or even more. Their tolerance for failure is very low and are quick to make people accountable for their failure.
As the writer points out later in the article "In America, that land of instantaneous gratification,..." you are celebrated if you succeed in something... succeed in sports, music, business or make a lot of money. Even the culture,politics and economy is based on Capitalism, which I believe is based to a major degree on amassing a lot of wealth for oneself (aka being successful). The degree of success in the US is measure by the amount of wealth you can amass from what you do. Only people close to you appreciate your struggle, for the rest you only matter if you are at the top, not how you get there. They are only willing to acknowledge and praise the ones on top, the runnerup only gets a pat on the back and is forgotten in a moment. The ones on the top gets their fifteen minute of fame as long as they are ahead of the game, are still in style or are the trend of the moment, once they slip from their game or someone else surpasses them or they fall out of fashion, then they drop to the bottom faster than they climbed to the top. The ones on top instantly disappear into obvilion and someone else replaces them. Someone once told me that people love to see someone falling from the top more than they love to see someone reaching the top.
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| ashu |
Posted
on 04-Sep-03 05:58 PM
On a slighted different theme, here's a great article from The New Yorker
It's titled "The Art of Failure"
http://www.gladwell.com/2000/2000_08_21_a_choking.htm
On another note, I think some people also have this great fear of success. So intense can be that fear of success that one actually goes out of the way to sabotage one's own chances at being a success. I think there's even a term in psychology that
describes this condition.
These people -- though very capable and competent-- somehow seem to think that
they do not deserve to be a success or that their success is based on some kind of fraud measures. They are always ambivalent about their success and they act in ways that diminish the importance of their own success.
Personally, I believe in making a lot of mistakes quickly and rapidly and when one is young and then learning from those mistakes.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| karmapa |
Posted
on 04-Sep-03 10:02 PM
I have met many successful people but I have never been quite impressed.
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| Arnico |
Posted
on 05-Sep-03 10:25 AM
Good article Sushma!
Nice to hear from you again after... 9 (?) years!
Ashu, thanks for posting it.
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| dogz |
Posted
on 05-Sep-03 11:03 AM
Karmapa, you haven't met me yet. Haha just kiddin.
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| Yankees |
Posted
on 05-Sep-03 04:22 PM
This is a great article, I dont think this part written by Shikhar is that true, "I think we just view success differently. Americans, in my opinion are as goal-oriented or even more. Their tolerance for failure is very low and are quick to make people accountable for their failure" I worked with many american, they can be indian american or they can be iresh american, as success wise it might not be true that I was very happy with the job I was doing with iresh american, but its the way they treat and appreciate ur work. I still have hard time to understand why we Asian don't appreciate our co-workers work.
I donot have to go any further to look for any better article than the article by Sushma to show our appreciation of our work.
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| Lekhiika |
Posted
on 05-Sep-03 06:34 PM
Very thought provoking article by Ms. Joshi. It definitely makes us reflect on our attitude. One thing that always ticks me off about my folks which I presume is the same in most cases is that they are never satisfied about what they have. It's one thing to find the weakness and try to improve but seeing in others what you deprive of and living your life whining and pressuring others is absolutely of no good. I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about and must have experienced this at some point of your life. For instance:
-phalano le dui talla ko ghar banaisakyo, khai kahiley paisa pathaune ho timle?
-phalano ko choro chori dactar engineer bhaisakey, khai timiharu le kun gati laune ho?
-dhiskano ko chori ley bihey pani garisakyo aba timi pani eso tarkhar garnu paro ni!!
-aba high school pass garyou,science linu parcha palla gharey ramey le jastai gari
-giraduate pani garyou aba degree kahiley garney?
-degree garyou aba phd kahiley garney?
etc. etc....
My aunt once complained to my aunt about her daughter who's in the US.
"k garney didi, achel ta chori lai paisa ko *pa* matra bhanna napaundai telephone ko card ma minute siddhyo sidhdyo bhanna thalihalcha, dikkai lagcha"
On enquiring about this to my cousin, she told me that everytime she calls home, her mother always complains about not getting enough money therefore she has to come up with an excuse.
Ashu, thanks for posting the article. I think it has become a contagious disease among nepalese that will never be cured unless they renounce their materialistic desires and live hermetic lives or something. :)
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| Prem Charo |
Posted
on 05-Sep-03 09:59 PM
I can smell the vive of cloaked shajhait:O
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| rajunpl |
Posted
on 06-Sep-03 12:46 AM
I have still,yet to know how the people of the west and the east differ.
The most disagreeing point of sushma joshi is that she is comparing the success of Mr. gates with the middle class nepalese family. This is totally unreasonable. The next door neighbour of me, When her son james didn't succeed in passing A level there were the same event socially,familywise like when my brother was dropped in class 12.This point doesn't match much.
Yes,The american society is much more open, sense-of-respect is higher than ours.But still,
WRITER SEEMS TO BE AMERICA-ORIENTED.I will not blame her for that,I will be wondering what if ? She lives in westen europe,down under or the far-east.
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| mitra 2 |
Posted
on 06-Sep-03 07:53 AM
This is a good article. To get the job done quickly, YES the praise and appreciation such as 'good/great job' is necessary. I agree that our culture lacks that. However, I don't feel those praise words come from deep inside in the US. Good job, thank you, excuse me, sorry, etc. are all formalities and they don't have any depth in meaning. It is good for quick reaction but it is, in most cases, fake.
What we have in our culture is the real. We appreciate by gesture, smile, expressions, and what not. They come from our being. I feel joy with such expressions.
When we try to give everything a name, the thing itself loses its meaning. For example, in the west, 'I LOVE YOU' is a very beautiful expression. I don't think we can translate this in any laungauge with the same weight in meaning. 'MA TIMILAI MAYA...' Oh no. That sounds fake. But expressions can be of equal weight as 'I love you' if not more.
So, my concern is can we praise/appreciate others with expressions and have the same result as in the west where expressions don't exist or are disappearing?
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| baljoshi |
Posted
on 06-Sep-03 09:36 AM
To me it seems like a very personal analysis and I dont think it does justice by branding Nepal and America into this. This is a same tune played in every culture around the world and its not fair to pin point Nepal as a society where acknowledgement is not a norm.
Author wrote: - For instance, after almost a decade in the United States, I realized I had picked up the habit of saying: oh good or great! When someone finishes a small task, or accomplishes a tiny goal.
This reminds of me of fake lip crack I receive at the malls or grocery stores when if I stare at a face accidentally or in purpose. The person delivering the acknowledgement simply puts no feelings into it and delivers it just because she/he feels like thats the thing to do.
My question is, does similar fake acknowledgement have a value or is even necessary if it has no meat to it? On the other hand from my experience with dealing with Nepali community, whatsoever an event, comment or place may be the gesture is real. Be it about jealousy, love, betrayal the feeling is real and to me that is more meaningful than a lip crack that simply is just a muscle movement.
In fact not only myself but also the tourists that visit Nepal can provide you a real analysis on this. One of the reasons they love Nepal for is the people delivering pure emotions which they lack in their parts of the world. Nepal makes them feel like humans.
Author Wrote:- People work for money, but they are also motivated to work for something far less tangible: the satisfaction derived from the recognition of a job well done.
Let me give you a realistic sense on this. Do you know only 15% of the Americans truly appreciate their job and they work because they love their jobs? Rest of the population is doing the grind like many friends we know here to:
Keep up with the Jones!
To finance the new gadgets!
To be part of a social class where they can maintain their identity!
Work to pay the bills!
Work coz that is what you do
Etc. etc. etc.
The post 911 and post Enron America has changed a lot from America Henry Ford or Bill gates once built. Remember there used to be days where people were appreciated at their work place. They worked for the same company until they retired. Now look at the current situation, I can name 40+ people in my network that lost their high paying jobs at a company where they sacrificed their personal lives for the company only to be acknowledged with Pink Slip Your contribution is no longer required at this company and thanks for all the hard works!
Author Wrote:- When we look towards the West for inspiration, we should try not just to emulate their material successes, but also the processes through which they get there.
Good point and very rational. What you have to realize is America was not build on 1950s on the other hand Nepal was open to rest of the world in the early 50s. So what this means is we are still in the process (which is the key word on this statement) to adapt to the changes in our existing social and economic infrastructure. You can read American history. It did not create Bill Gates right after Columbus landed. It took 300+ years. So my friend the key here for us the younger generation is to streamline and identify the process. We are the first generation with introduction to the modern world. Our parents did not play with computers! My mom when she was 12 FREAKED OUT! When she had a 1950 Ford honk in Tudikhel. That was the first time she saw a moving vehicle. Now she is only in her early 60s and the same Tudikhel is packed with cars with no room to walk.
So what I am talking about is adapting and MANAGING to continuously evolving world and creating infrastructure. Nepal is going through what I call growing pains. The tug of war between its traditional roots versus the ever-changing modern world and looking for an equilibrium state.
Author wrote:- This ethic of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, celebrated in America, remains a matter of shame for Nepalis.
This is a very unfair and unthoughtful comment and here is why. I would like to recommend you a book Immigration and Identity by Salman Akhtar. The book focuses on the psychological trauma/adjustment faced by immigrants after their migration.
My analysis, due to our deteriorating economic system in our country people started migrating to the US like the Chinese, Indians or the Europeans. One thing to keep in mind is the people migrating here are primarily First Generations Nepalese. Some of the Nepalese who are doing the grind are people who formerly had status in Nepal. Be it a sauji at a pasal or subba in Singhadurbar or an actor on Kollywood. The status was there. Now try to think about that particular subba who used to sign documents in Singha Durbar now is using the same hands to wash dishes in an Indian store for $6-$7 per hr to take care of his wife and kids in Nepal. Before we pinpoint and criticize this particular population compared to the professional, privileged Nepalese in the US we need to understand the dynamics. You know what in fact we should be thankful to this population coz they are the ones driving our economy in Nepal versus a Nepali professional who is wrapped up in his/her white-collar world and does not have anything to do with contributing to our economy except criticizing about it.
In any case the blue collar Nepalese or the white collar Nepalese both are trying to adjust psychologically in the US. Though their realities are different, in their heads they are trying to live in a world where they feel comfortable. This is more therapeutic than eating up their guts to spill their lies. If a lie helps them to move on with their tough lives in the US, why not do it! The trips to therapy cost 2 days of work and who simply can afford it!
The point I am trying to make again is adjusting to an environment. Working hard to see how they can adjust and feel at home in a foreign land. In future, we will definitely see a shift in this attitude and change in their personal lives with future Nepali generations in the US. At this point we need to be thankful to this particular population, because they are helping our economy grow during this tough times.
To conclude this interesting topic, there are always 2 sides to a story. The younger generations should invest their time and money into developing the process like the author briefly mentioned or in my personal word discipline to create a society that can help drive our economy or maintain stability. By pinpointing a race, caste, ethnic origin on in authors case generalized comments on 2 entirely different classes of people does not fuel development.
We have to acknowledge that we are only half a decade old country to modernity and it takes time to adapt to these changes. The idea to adapt is to rationalize, analyze and create infrastructures to manage these changes!
Peace!
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| jhismisebihani |
Posted
on 06-Sep-03 12:50 PM
I think this is a very good article. Some of you here said that, the thank yous and the great jobs are mostly fake here in US. Maybe so, but it is still very important to have common courtseys like that.
Many of us Nepalese here in US take these things for granted but I can assure you that these are the things we will miss if we move back to Nepal for good and deal with people day to day. It matters when someone says thank you, or good job because everyone needs appreciation and affirmation.
Besides, how can we be so sure that all the badhais in Nepal are all 100% sincere and genuine. I am a nepali and in my experience many times we just fail to acknowledgement other people. A Thank you is a thank you and a compliment is a compliment and to say a a thank you by a Westerner is fake and by Nepali is heartfelt is, sorry to say this, but ridiculous. The phrase "arka ko khtta tanne" is there for a reason.
Reality check, we have to acknowledge Nepal is unfortunately one of the most messed up places right now...sure maybe not in Kathmandu for middle class and upper class people but overall people are suffering and there must be somethings we, Nepalese, are not doing right and I am not saying saying thank yous and great jobs is the root cause of our sufferings. BUT what I am saying is in a much broader sense, MAYBE there IS something we can learn from the west as the author points out. It does us no good to constantly claim some cultural superiority over West when the social and economic fabric of our own society constatantly struggles so much. We can't be constatnly so arrogant. I think it's time for us to acknowledge and say hey maybe we need to change few things about ourseleves.
We can't constantly blame GP and Madhav Kumar Nepal for all our problems because GP and MKN is US. They came from us. Every Nepali, especially the educated and the ones who has had any decent chance to make something out of their lives, is partially responsible for where Nepal is today and I am one of them.
Just my two cents...
JB
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| ashu |
Posted
on 06-Sep-03 06:00 PM
Bal Joshi asks:
"My question is, does similar fake acknowledgement have a value or is even necessary if it has no meat?"
The answer is yes.
Psychologically speaking, if someone PRAISES/FLATTERS us -- even if the words
of praise and flattery are false and fake -- we, being human beings, do feel good
about ourselves, and start viewing those who praise us in a positive light. Sure, we
may not get swept by the words of praise forever, but they do bring short-term
happiness into our system, and that's good.
Example: Say you just got a haircut, and someone notices it and says, "hey, great haircut!", then the CHANCES ARE HIGH that you feel good about the comment,
about yourself, about your haircut and about the person who gives you that
compliment EVEN WHEN it's a, let's face it, relatively insignificant comment.
Likewise, say that you are nervous about giving a speech in front of a big crowd. But
if you ACT AS THOUGH you were confident and prepared anyway, nervousness
does seem to disappear and you do indeed start feeling confident and prepared.
In other words, paradoxically, initially you fake confidence or yo fake your emotions
but end up start feeling TRULY confident anyway. [Try it, it works!]
Likewise, say you are unhappy, but if you fake smiles and force yourself to laugh anyway, you'll notice that you start feeling much better in a while.
My conclusion is that I would NOT discount the importance and the value of fake
feelings and fake compliments. They can be used as crutches to jump-start our way
to the land of TRUE feelings. If this were NOT the case, if fake compliments and fake feelings had no value, 99 per cent of love affairs would eventually fail!! :-)
As the rock band Fleetwood Mac famously sang, "Tell me lies, tell me sweet
little lies . . ."
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| karmapa |
Posted
on 07-Sep-03 09:53 PM
'Fake it till you make it'. If it works why not - many reason. An industry has grown up around spin doctors and image consultants and slick marketers who make a living making those who are even marginally talented and ambitious but marketable (and not yet successful) look successful even before they are. If you look and act successful, you already are. David Bowie acted like a rock stah long before he was one. Success is a manipulative, conniving art today. That's what it has regressed to. Spice girls - pure product of media hype. You find still many in Kathmandu very good at self-promotion - and yes they are successful in the 'pop' sense of the word. Thanks to pop culture and zillions of 'How to be successful' psycho-bibles ...success is today an art of fakery and chakery - it's called 'networking'. You ride on fake compliments to feel good about yourself. And yet..they seem genuine enough. We give them the benefit of a doubt, lest we be perceived as jerks for not returning compliments with an interest...and soon we live amongst masks masquerading all the time. Success wears a mask ...and you know the face of the executioner is always hidden. The flip side is why do the public relish it so much when some successful and powerful people take a tumble ... fall flat on their faces. Success is an unspoken conspiracy...it's a game of one-upmanship...practised by those whose problem is they know it too good.
In Nepal, success is whatever makes money. Would it be a success if you suddenly started getting the chills because you cannot find it in the dollar bills?
Millions of ordinary people perform heroic deeds day after day after to just get by...and nobody calls them a success.
Very strange!
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| ashu |
Posted
on 08-Sep-03 05:33 AM
Say you are unhappy.
You close your eyes.
You think of a place you'd rather be at this instant.
You take some time imagining -- in a concentrated way -- that place where
you'd rather be, with your loved ones.
You start feeling better in a few minutes.
Why?
How?
Question: Did you really physically move to that different place when you closed your eyes?
Answer: No.
Question: Then did you 'fake' being in your dream place?
Answer: Yes.
Question: If you faked your presence in your dream place, how come you start to feel better, when your rational self knows that you have not really physically left place where you really are?
Answer: While body is stationary, your thoughts can travel around, and they can powerfully influence the state of your emotions, and, by extension, your emotional
well-being. [That's why, to put it simplistically, meditation works!]
This is the kind of 'fakery' I was talking about, instances of faking positive thoughts for yourself . . . and having those short-term faked positive/pleasant thoughts lead to BETTER results for your own emotional self.
Likewise, when someone compliments you, you feel good, and you start viewing that person, all things being equal, probably with more positive attitudes.
As for achievements' obtained through public relations exercises, well, they
RARELY last beyond their allotted "fifteen minutes of fame". And, let's be fair,
Nepal alone has no monopoly on that kind of stuff.
Such a thing would be true whether one is in the USA, Nepal, England, Vietnam or
Japan, and that's life.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| bideshi |
Posted
on 08-Sep-03 09:14 AM
We have to accept that eventhough it's fake, still those words make us happy at times and encourage us to work harder.Yes there are few of the qualities which we lack ,but I feel in Nepal there is sense of belongings for us.
[After staying is US for quite sometime,I still feel I am outsider.And more over,after september 11,I feel the people with brown skin(specially asians) are discriminated.Nobody says anything with words,but the look in the eyes tells everything.]
We have tolerance,capacity to compromise and feelings for family which the people over here lack.So,in every society,there is always -ve and + aspects.I won't say,eveything in Nepal is bad and here everything in US is the best!Infact family life crises,abuses,social crime existed in US too.
In conclusion, every aspects of life ,-ve and +ve,crimes, social problem,abuses,jealosy, etc . etc, persist in every society ,but the mode is different.ANd our eyes,since we r different individuals with different views , see it differently.
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| mickthesick |
Posted
on 09-Sep-03 02:52 PM
Ashu!
Good Job!!
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