| Username |
Post |
| Brook |
Posted
on 09-Sep-03 01:28 AM
The peace talks and after
DR Baburam Bhattarai
The seven month long ceasefire and peace talks between the old monarchical regime and the revolutionary democratic forces led by CPN (Maoist) have finally collapsed on August 27. The international community, capping with the UN Secretary General to the government of Australia down under, have expressed serious concern over it and called for solution of all outstanding problems through continued dialogue. This warrants a short overview of why the talks failed and what the prospects for the future are:
Why the talks failed
There has been much media dissection on why the talks failed and many have tended to put the blame on procedural matters and similar secondary issues. But we, and for that matter any serious student of political science and history of democratic struggle in Nepal, would locate the impasse on the seemingly irreconcilable class and political contradiction between a feudal-bureaucratic monarchy backed by foreign imperialist powers and democratic forces fighting for complete sovereignty of the people on all state affairs.
A cursory glance at the two political proposals put forward by the two warring sides at the negotiating table (i.e. by CPN (Maoist) during the first round of talks on April 27 and by the representatives of the royalist regime during the third round of talks on August 17 ) would suffice to bring out the huge gap between the two political positions. The talks failed precisely on those core political issues which could find no meeting point despite any amount of diplomatic niceties and procedural finesse.
The CPN (Maoist) proposal identifies the two-and-a quarter century old feudal-bureaucratic state presided over by the autocratic monarchy, with cosmetic reforms in 1950 and 1990, as the root cause of all class, national, regional, gender and other contradictions and seeks basic structural transformation in the political, economic, social and cultural spheres of the state simultaneously to solve the fundamental problems of the country. However, given the stage of strategic equilibrium in the seven and half year long civil war and the sensitive geo-strategic positioning of the country sandwiched between two super states of India and China, the proposal offers the creation of a transitional state system through democratic means with common minimum content and form/process of promulgation of a new constitution. Whereas a round-table conference, interim-government and election to a constituent assembly were proposed as the process of creating a new constitution, the minimum content of the new constitution were proposed as: unrestricted sovereignty of the people; no unchangeable features in the constitution; creation of a new national army; proportional representation of different classes, nationalities, regions, dalits, women etc in the legislature and proper representation of all in the government; a secular state; guarantee of rights to self-determination and autonomy to oppressed nationalities and regions; guarantee of multi-party system, rule of law, freedom of expression etc;education, health and employment as fundamental rights to all; revolutionary land reform on the basis of land-to-the tiller and protection to national industry and trade; and abrogation of all unequal treaties and strict practice of non-aligned foreign
policy.
Along with these, it was proposed that political parties would be free to propagate in favour of a republican state during the election to the constituent assembly which would be held with no preconditions attached. In sum, the essence of CPN (Maoist) proposal was to let the people exercise their sovereignty in an unrestricted manner and complete the unfinished agenda of bourgeois democratic revolution in the country.
Contrary to this, the so-called Concept for Forward-looking Reforms in the State-system proposed by the old regime eulogised the traditional role of the monarchy as quintessential for national unity and sought to preserve it for ever as indispensable basis of the constitution. On the crucial issue of the Royal Nepal Army (RNA), which has been the bulwark of the monarchy and a vehicle for counterrevolution time and again, the old regime was not even prepared to discuss, leave alone negotiate, and rather sought outlandishly the immediate surrender of arms by the Peoples Liberation Army (PLA). Also it rejected almost all the other minimum content of the new constitution proposed by us, by making offer of only selective reforms on peripheral issues to hoodwink the gullible, like twenty-five percent reservation for women. The most significant hurdle, however, was the obstinate unwillingness of the old regime to go for a new constitution and its ridiculous stand to introduce reforms through amendments to the old moribund constitution, which is already mutilated beyond recognition after the royal takeover on October 4 last year.
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| Brook |
Posted
on 09-Sep-03 01:29 AM
Hence these two irreconcilable political positions of the two warring sides practically sealed the fate of the peace talks after the third round on August 17-19. Any observer with a sense of objectivity and conversant with the ground reality of class and political balance of forces in Nepal (i.e. a triangular contention between the monarchists, parliamentarian and revolutionary democratic forces) would, however, acknowledge that a free and fair election to a constituent assembly under an interim government would have been the best course of compromise acceptable to all the three contending sides. It is quite ironic that both the monarchist and parliamentarian forces, who swear by the sovereignty of the people and multi-party democracy, have chickened out of going to the sovereign people to elect a constituent assembly, and thus precipitated a bloody civil war in the country. No sane person or organisation would now blame CPN (Maoist) for an intransigent stand, as the Party openly espousing a strategic goal of peoples democratic republic has come down to the immediate slogan of a constituent assembly.
Apart from this broader ideological-political issue, the saboteur role of the Royal Nepal Army, with the prompting of some foreign powers, has contributed significantly to derail the peace talks. Not only did the Royal Nepal Army consistently violate the cease-fire and code-of-conduct mutually agreed upon by the two sides, it openly challenged the decision of the second round of talks to confine the RNA activities within five kilometers of its permanent bases. The most serious and provocative incident was the massacre of nineteen unarmed political activists by the Royal Nepal Army in Doramba (Eastern Nepal) on the very day of start of third round of talks on August 17. This ghastly crime has now been corroborated even by an enquiry commission sent by the National Human Rights Commission owing allegiance to the old monarchical regime.
Role of international forces
As most of the rulers of the semi-colonial and dependent third world countries are just the puppets in the hands of their foreign imperialist masters, the role of foreign forces cannot be minimized in the internal political dynamics of the country. This foreign hand was quite visible and active in our case, too, and can be said to have significantly influenced the outcome of the peace talks, despite their pious official pronouncements to the contrary.
Even though a large section of the international community was seen sincerely committed and endeavoring for the success of the peace-talks, some forces could not conceal their sabotaging role from the beginning to the end. Leading this evil band was US imperialism led by President George W Bush and US Ambassador Malinowsky.
On the very morrow of the first round of talks on April 27, the US government put CPN(Maoist) on the co-called "other terrorists" list, signed a five-year anti-terrorist agreement with the royalist regime, announced the supply of several billion rupees worth of ultra-modern arms and equipments to the Royal Nepal Army and sent hundreds of military advisors and trainers. Also, sudden rush of hordes of US strategic experts with dubious antecedents to the country at the same time could not have been a mere coincidence.
In the immediate aftermath of the break-down of peace talks the US ambassador, along with a few others, was seen hectically campaigning to make the agitating parliamentary parties surrender to the King, so as to isolate the Maoists. In the process these self-professed guardians of democracy have unmasked their own autocratic monarchist and militarist characters and isolated themselves from the masses of the people fighting for their democratic rights and freedom.
CPN(Maoist), however, as reflected in the recent letter of Chairman Prachanda to the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, has been assuring the international community of its full commitment to all universal democratic values and principles, and appeals to all to stop every sort of foreign military and otherwise interventions in the country and let the Nepalese people choose their own destiny
themselves.
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| Brook |
Posted
on 09-Sep-03 01:30 AM
The future prospects
Despite the ultimate break-down of cease-fire and peace talks our Party has positively assessed the overall political developments so far. It is our considered view that the decision to enter into cease-fire and negotiation process was correct in the concrete historical situation, and through our sincere efforts to find a forward- looking political solution in a peaceful manner we have won over millions of masses and middle-strata of the population to the cause of democratic revolution and isolated the regressive monarchist forces. Even the opinion polls conducted within the status quoists dispensation have over the months consistently showed that a large majority of the people across all strata and regions support the democratic programmes and policies advanced by our Party. This is one of the reasons why the so-called votaries of democracy have chickened out of the innocuous proposal of a constituent assembly which is supposed to be the highest form of bourgeois democracy.
However, the political developments in the country in the coming months are likely to follow different twists and turns and the democratic forces would have to be prepared for every eventuality. As the real power of the old state is now centralised in the monarchy and its Royal Nepal Army and the formidable foreign power brokers are lobbying hard to make the King share some power with parliamentary forces so as to mount a unified assault against the revolutionary democratic forces, coming weeks may see yet another governmental change. But whether the mask would be white (i e Nepali Congress) or red (i e the revisionist UML), the real power will be wielded by the King and his Royal Nepal Army and prodded by the foreign masters. Consequently a head-on collision between the regressive and progressive forces would be unavoidable. A victory of the progressive forces is a foregone conclusion, although the cost may be too high.
( Dr Baburam Bhattarai was the Convener of the 5-member Negotiating Team of CPN(Maoist) and is also the In-Charge of the International Department of the Party.)
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| allare |
Posted
on 09-Sep-03 02:09 AM
I found this is quite clear signal to govt and other political parties. Its now upto them how do they act for sake of Nepal.
Point to be noted:
"But whether the mask would be white (i e Nepali Congress) or red (i e the revisionist UML), the real power will be wielded by the King and his Royal Nepal Army and prodded by the foreign masters. Consequently a head-on collision between the regressive and progressive forces would be unavoidable."
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| Brook |
Posted
on 09-Sep-03 02:59 AM
Yeah, looks like a full blown war has come to town.
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| nepalipanda |
Posted
on 09-Sep-03 02:42 PM
Brook:
You are right. That's pretty much it. Go RNA and the woman who fended off those Maoists thugs who wanted to hack the teacher. I would recommedn a GO DA WA of the highest honor for this brave lady.
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| nepalipanda |
Posted
on 09-Sep-03 02:52 PM
Usual venomous ranting and raving. Calls Michael the american ambassador an evil man. Likes to read the polls, and sometimes even responds to them. (NT letter where he declines to be the King of Nepal, oh sorry! PM that is). Until the Indians start kicking his ass, he will be a big pain for everyone in Nepal. What a hellish situation we are in! Nilnu Na Okalnu!
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| ashu |
Posted
on 09-Sep-03 05:37 PM
If you openly and strongly disagree with BRB, you might get blown up or murdered or have the honor of appearing on the dubiously prestigious Maoist "hit list".
Even if you agree with BRB, you can't help noticing that other than an oblique "the cost may be too high [for the sure-fire Maoist victory]", BRB sees violence, murder and mayhem as unspoken tools for the success of his version of democratic revolution.
If you read the article and decide to keep your thoughts to yourself, well, isn't that what most of us have been doing for the last seven years anyway . . . and look where that has led us.
******
And so, the larger question: If democracy is all about increasing choices, why is it that we in Nepal seem to have fewer and fewer choices when it comes to responding to, say, even articles put out by BRB and his comrades?
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| nepalipanda |
Posted
on 09-Sep-03 08:08 PM
Ashu:
There are people who are ready to give away 60% of Nepal to these thugs than support the RNA. Then there are those who go in the street against the regression rather than come forward to lead the negotiation team or take the Maoists headon. Either way it is a safe choice. It is partly King's fault to provide them with this opportunity ---Oct 4.... No one is guiltfree; they all are arguing about who will get the master bedroom while the house is on fire. They say different things to different crowd and yet no one brings them out on the floor. What they said in the elites circle is totally different than what they say to their cadres (see Bipin's list of their agenda in another thread). After the death of Deepak Gurung, Baburam's TKP article was wo repugnant and full of nonsense. Would the New York Times have allowed Bin Laden's article after the 9/11 incident? Hell no!
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| Suva Chintak |
Posted
on 09-Sep-03 09:24 PM
Nepalipanda and Ashu,
You have made some honest to God comments on this thread...one gets tired of long-winded sermons that directly/indirectly support the Maoist mayhem in the name of being self-appointed democrats.
I am totally shocked by the tendency of the self-styled democrat intellectuals (but in reality closet Pol Pots?) and the five parties who are crying foul over the October 4 move and the alleged 'regression' but have no guts or honesty to challenge the Maoists who are butchering their own party cadres like dogs day-in, day-out!
Why this silence-love for the Maoists? Secondly, if we look at the situation objectively, do we see more danger to democracy from the King or the Maoists? At least one can openly criticize and write all kinds of things about the King and his government. Try that with the Maoists, and you will end up like the journalist in Sindhupalchowk or the nurse Relimai in Ramechhap. Who are we kidding?
The bottom line is that the King will at least allow civil liberties (freedom of press, freedome of movement, freedom of occupation, freedom of expression, freedom to earn, freedom of religion, etc). The Maoist will allow no such liberties, one just has to talk to the thousands upon thousands of interanal refugees who have escaped the harsh Maoist rule in the districts. It is a brutal regime that believes in no other law than violence and terror to coercee and cower the poor villagers who are unable to escape the hinterland. Granted, Gyanendra regime is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But everything is relative: compared to millions of those rural folks under the Maoist boot, Gyanendra raj in Kathmandu and other urban centres appears like a Sunday picnik. Yet, the parties will hold endless rounds of protest against the King, but have nothing to say about the Maoist rule that is exterminating their own party cadres in the districts. If it is all about fighting for democracy and not only power, should they not be rasing the question of democracy for people living under the Maoist 'liberated areas'?
So what are the political leaders and their intellectual hangers-on talking about at this critical juncture? If they are really concerned about people's liberties and freedom, it is clear where the greater threat lies. But if one is a Maoist sympathizer under the skin of a democrat or human rightwalla, there is nothing to say...as they say all is fair in war and love.
Beloved country
bleed no more
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| karmapa |
Posted
on 09-Sep-03 09:47 PM
Mao explicitly said power comes through the barrel of a gun. And that is the position of the Maoists in Nepal. Hence, we have violence and terror.
The palace likewise believes that power comes through the barrel of a gun, but doesn't say it explicitly.
But both are sytems propped up by the backing of the guns.
I do not know who the real Maoists are anymore. Who are causing the most damage to the country and hurting the ordinary people the most? The truth is not so black and white...it is all grey.
Whether the Maoists, er evil, live/work in the jungles, in the corporate boardroom, in the palace, in the Ministeries, or in hospital wards, or in the Embassies and consulates, I do not know.
All I know is Nepal is up for grabs. It's a free-for-all. Visa-free for SAARC nationals and dirt cheap for everyone, and its backwardness ah-so charming to tourists. 'Biharization of Nepal' is proceeding beautifully. Minorities and indigenous entities are either getting squeezed out or being used as cannon fodder by manipulative and coercive forces. Not to mention, Nepal will always remain an extension of India - and the latter's hold on Nepal's internal affairs, commerce, and cultures (economic, political and cultural) is complete. A slam dunk ala Shaquila O' Neal.
Jay Hind, Bharat Mata ki jaya! Shai baba ki Jaya. Osho ki Jaya. Shiva sena ki jaya. BJP ki jaya. Salman Khan ki jaya. Aishwarya Rai ki jaya. We are all Indians in the heart of hearts. India may not have colonized our country but they certainly have colonized our subconscious. 'Kaho na pyar hey!'
While the powers-that-be (Maoists and RNA) point guns at each other...
Nepal is slowly and surely slipping from the fingers of them both into the pockets of external forces.
I say we auction Nepal off at Sotheby's...as a pure specimen of exotica.
What use is a country if it has lost its sovereignty, if its sovereignty is for up for sale? I propose we become an autonomous region of India...like Sikkim. As a martial nation, we are a country at the service of other countries like Britain and India (and increasingly of the US)...so this doesn't seem like a far-fetched idea.
Swallow your pride, you won't die. The idea of Nepal as the nation state looks more and more problematic to me these days...
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 09-Sep-03 09:56 PM
Nepalipanda and shuvachintak,
I am totally shocked at the tendency of Nepal's royalists who take every opportunity to attack Nepal's democrats: even if that is a death of an innocent kid. Stop doing 'laashko raajniti',will you?
But, Again it is an easy way to deflect criticism that people will eventually be level at them: the Maoists were at discussion table, the royalists couldn't hold them. Now, the royalists are entrusted with safeguarding the nation and the nation's capital and they can't even do that. But to deflect the attention of commoners from themselves and their weaknesses, and from their bedfellow Maoists, they have one thing left: to berate the democrats.
As for freedom in Gyanendra Raj, just read about poet Purna Biraam being detained , though his whereabout is still unknown. His crime: he wrote poetry and he didn't like the establishment in Kathmandu! Doesn't sound very different communist rule in China to me.
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| nepalipanda |
Posted
on 09-Sep-03 11:33 PM
Biswo:
Don't jump so quickly to call some one a monarchist, because it will be travesty to call you a Maoist. So, leave all these llabels: monarchists, anarchists, and royalists. Don't be so quick. It is like calling your anti RNA stance anti nationalist. You don't seem to see anything beyond your own narrow obsession with the RNA. You may want to give away the country to the Maoists, but I am not ready for that and many many more who are by the way in Nepal will not accepct your appeasement. You are not even in Nepal and how can you propose such a solution? The RNA is what is giving you this oppotunity to read Dr. BRB's article in TKP. Mr Badal as your C-N-C, you and I will be rotting in jail if your are lucky. Your and mine verdict will be done in a second by a people's court.
You read a poem? I too saw tears of many widows and sonless mothers.
I also read about a farmer whose crime was that his son was in police. Read about that boy whose crime was to be a cook for a sub inspector. Read about that old man whose only livelihood --his 18 years old son-- was hacked for being an informant.
Have you seen the RNA going after BRB's parents? Why are they attacking politicians' parental homes? What is the logic behiond this nonsense? Do you support that too? Don't stand with your legs apart in two boats. If you are really interested in saving democracy, support RNA. Don't make them weak, that is like supporting the Maoists.
As a child I always read about Nepal Ama, which to me was an abstract concept. Now, I now how to put a face on it. It is that woman who saved that teacher's life by fighting back with a roap. A thousand salutes to that Nepal Ama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Save the nation and its democracy. Support RNA!
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| nepalipanda |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 12:20 AM
Biswo:
I also went back and re-read the thread. I was shocked to read that you even proposed to wait and see who wins between the Army and the Maoists. Then you said something about fighting whoever wins! What kind of a democrat are you? And how do you plan to fight the winner? And that I guess from being in the good old US of A while hundreds are being maimed in bomb blasts in Nepal.
You called me a royalist? I am a nationalist and a democrat who believes in a constitutional monarchy and a honest democratic system of multi-party system. Does that make me a monarchist or a royalist? So, who are you? Since you want to give more than half of Nepal to the Maoists. A Maoist? Drop the label BiswoJi.
Save the nationa and the democracy. Way to go brave woman and the RNA!
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| allare |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 02:16 AM
Just to know more about natak of political parties in their so called jan-andolan (Kursi andolan), and to know more about Purna Biram.
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;;'/fnL¿kL lx/f;tdf s'g} sd/]8 afh] bf]xf]/L uLtsf] cu'jf aGof], s'g} afh]n] sDd/ dsf{P/ efn' gfr b]vfof], s'g} afh]n] sljtf jfrg u¥of] . dfgf}+ Tof] st} zfGt, PsfGt:yndf s'nLgx¿sf] Pp6f jgef]h xf] hxf" ;~rf/sf Sofd]/fsdL{x¿ a]/f]s6f]s hfg kfp"5g\, hxf" ldg/n jf6/ 5]nf]vf]nf] x'G5 / hxf" Sof6l/ª xfp;af6 :jflbi6 d]jfldi7fGg lemsfOG5 . d'n's /utsf] cfxfn, nf;sf] rfª, lrTsf/sf] sf]nfxn / cf";'sf] endf kl/0ft eO/x]sf] a]nf To; d'n'ssf] ;+j]bgzLn gful/snfO{ l5lNnP/ xf":g km';{b x'"b}g . t/ ;;'/fnL¿kL lx/f;tjf;Lx¿nfO{ eof] . ;s] ToxL If0fdf, Tot} st} k"0f{lj/fdx¿sf] hLjgdf k"0f{lj/fd nfUg] vt/fsf] 306L alh/x]sf] lyof] . cj1fsf/LdWo] s'g} ;+j]bgzLn cfTdfn] 306Lsf] Tof] cfjfh ;'Gof] xf]nf <
cfGbf]ngsf/L k~rbnsf 7"nf g]tfx¿nfO{ cfzLjf{b tyf k|;fbbftf dxfdlxd ljb]zLx¿n] 5\of:; elglbP5g\ zfGt d'b|fdf xft yfk] x'G5, ca eg] emg]{ eof] . /, ;'? eof] xft yfKg] xf]8afhL . lg0ff{os egL Gjf/fg ul/Psf] cfGbf]ng lg:t]h kl/xf;df ktLt eof] . /, cfGbf]ngsf] gfd eb| cj1f /fv]/ ufGwL afafsf] x'd{t lnOof] . xft yfKg] wGbfdf Ps lbg t Pp6f 7"nf] bn ;8slt/ cfp"bf aLr af6fd} x/fof] . nf]ssf ;fwf/0f g/gf/Lx¿n] Tof] cnksf] /f]rs cy{ nufP . pm ;8slt/ cfp"b} lyof] . af6fdf p;n] ufu|L af]s]/ kfgL eg{ lx"8]sL s[lifafnfnfO{ b]Vof] . t?0f afnf ¿kjtL lyOg\ . slyt cj1fsf/Lsf] emNnf d'b|f b]v]/ s6fIfsf] efjdf pgL d';'Ss xf"l;g\ . emNnfn] 7fGof] logsf] d':sfgn] d;"u ne u?" eg]sf] x'g'k5{ . a;\, emNnf pt} x/fof] . h;nfO{ d sf] x'", d stf hf"b}5', d]/f] lhDd]jf/L s] xf] / d k'Ug] 7fp" sxf" xf] eGg] s'/f g} yfxf 5}g p;af6 o; ;+s6u||:t d'n'sn] s] cf; ug'{ < emnf{ / vfp"nf egL uf}dftfsf kl/kSj k'qsf kl5kl5 lx"8\g]x¿ :ofn x'G5g\ . hf] dfG5] xf] p;n] t emf/]/ kf] vfG5
emnf{ / vfp"nfsf] /0fgLlt c"ufNg]x¿ rf/ kfp 6]s]/ xft k;fg{ cEo:t x'G5g\ . ltgsf] ljrf/ ToxL xf], ltgsf] cfrf/ ToxL xf] / ltgsf] lgolt klg ToxL xf] . ha nf]eL xft uf}k'qsf rlDsnf, lrNnf / kf]l6nf kmn :kz{ ug{ k'U5, k'q dxf]boaf6 ofrsnfO{ kmn xf]Og, nnf6df nfQLsf] bx|f] :kz{ k|fKt x'G5 . t/ pm slxNo} r]Tb}g . kne/ nnf6sf] 6'6'Nsf] d';f5{, nfQLbftflj?4 s]s] gu?"nf eg]/ x'Íf/ u5{, clg km]l/ rf/ kfp 6]s]/ 6f"ufd'lg xft k;fl/xfN5 . t/ k"0f{lj/fd To:tf xf]Ogg\ . pgL ljrf/lgi7 / :jfledfgL slj x'g\ . ljrf/df pgL dfcf]jfbL x'g ;S5g\ t/ rSs'eGbf tnsf] xltof/nfO{ xltof/ g7fGg] / xTofeGbf tnsf] sd{nfO{ sd{ gdfGg] vfnsf] dfcf]jfbL pgL xf]Ogg\ . kl;gf aufP/ vfg' pgsf] hLjgz}nL xf] / snd pgsf] xltof/ xf] . o; d'n'sdf s'g} g]kfnLnfO{ dx]Gb|jfbL aGg kfpg] clwsf/ eP csf]{ s'g} g]kfnLnfO{ dfcf]jfbL aGg kfpg] clwsf/ lsg gx'g' < sfsf P]nfg u5{g\ rfx] dx]Gb|jfbL xf];\ rfx] dfcf]jfbL, ljrf/sf] k|lt:kwf{df cfkm\gf] ljrf/n] xf/]sf] jf lht]sf] b]Vgsf nflu af"Rg kfpg' p;sf] df}lns clwsf/ xf] . t/ clxn] k"0f{lj/fdnfO{ Tof] clwsf/af6 jl~rt ul/"b}5 . pgnfO{ yfkf ;/sf/n] s'g b'nf]df sf]r]sf] 5 cQf]kQf] 5}g .
;'vbfoL lx/f;tdf lj/fhdfg x'g] y'k|} vnkfqx¿ /fhgLltaf6 cGtWof{g x'"bf klg /fhgLltsf] of] s'¿k ¿k / /Ëdf s]xL km/s kb}{g . AjfOn/ s'v'/fsf] ayfgaf6 s]xL s'v'/f st} cnk x'"bf ayfgsf] ljljwtfdf s] km/s k5{ < t/ sljtfsf] ;+;f/df k"0f{lj/fd gx'g' eg]sf] dfl;"b} uPsf] jgaf6 Pp6f do"/ cnk x'g'h:t} xf] . To;}n] nf]s5]p sfsf lgj]bg u5{g\ k"0f{lj/fdsf] hLjgdf k"0f{lj/fd nfUg glbg cleJolQm :jtGqtfdf ljZjf; ug]{x¿n] df}gj|t e+u ug'{ /fd|f] x'G5 . /, lrxfg ug]/ dfgj clwsf/sf] dfgf] ksfpg]x¿n] lhp"bf] dflg;nfO{ lrxfgdf k'¥ofOg'cl3 g} s]xL af]n] klg kfk nfUb}g .
|
| allare |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 02:18 AM
Sorry, once again trying. otherwise you can browse this link.
http://kantipuronline.com/kantipur_html/kantipur_news4.htm#7
-----
k"0f{lj/fdsf] hLjgdf nfUg ;Sg] k"0f{lj/fdlj?4
vu]Gb| ;+u|f}nf
ljgfzsf] cleofgdf s]xL af"sL /x]g /fhgLlts kfqx¿sf xftaf6 dxfTdf ufGwLsf] eb| cj1f¿kL c:qsf] klg 5fn} sfl8of] . ;'sf]dn lx/f;taf6 k|;Gg d'b|fdf ;k|]d labf x'g'ePsf cAan Pdfn] g]tf e/tdf]xg clwsf/Ln] eGg'eP5 &lx/f;tsf] Jojxf/af6 d ;Gt'i6 5' .Ú of] clt b'n{e ;Gt'li6 xf] . o:tf] ;Gt'li6 o; hut\sf ;j{;fwf/0f k|f0fLnfO{ st}, slxNo} k|fKt x'"b}g . afh] e/tnfO{ eof] . k|x/L lx/f;tdf Pdfn] afh]x¿sf] ;'/Iff, ;'lj:tf / ;Tsf/df s'g} sdL x'g kfPg . t" lu/km\tf/L lbPh:tf] u/\, d lu/km\tf/L lnPh:tf] u5'{, leq ef]hg, cf]5\ofg / dgf]/~hgsf] s'g} b'Mv x'g]5}g . sfsf nv sf6\5g\ lu/km\tf/Lsf] of] n]gb]g o:t} k|]ddo ;dembf/Lsf] cfgGbbfoL kmn x'g'k5{ . /, e2f k|x;geGbf klg r'Tyf] o; 7§fnfO{ eb| cj1f elgof] / ufGwL afafsf] cfGbf]ng¿kL c:qsf] ;jf{Ë 5fnf sfl8of] .
oltv]/ s'G;fª sfsf lx/f;tsf] kl/;/leq b'O{ cnu :yfgdf b'O{ cnu Jojxf/sf] pkef]u ul//x]sf b'O{ cnu kfqsf] t:jL/ emNemnL b]lv/x]5g\ . Pp6f kfq afh] e/t hf] lx/f;tsf] Jojxf/af6 dvn]n x'g'x'G5 . /, csf{ kfq slj k"0f{lj/fd hf] sxf" x'g'x'G5 s;}nfO{ yfxf 5}g . otf afh] df]xgnfO{ k|r'/ ;'/Iff, ;'lj:tf / ;Tsf/ k|fKt eO/x"bf ptf k"0f{lj/fdnfO{ glhs} st} s] k|fKt eO/x]sf] x'"bf] xf] < ;f"3'/f], b'u{Gwdo cGwsf/ sf]7f . Psnf;sf] eofjx jftfj/0f . cf"vfdf k§L, xftdf xTs8L / uf]8fdf g]n . dgdf cft+s / Iff]e, k]6df ef]s, cf"tdf Kof; / cfªdf cGtxLg tf8gf . b'j} :yfg lx/f;t x'g\ . Pp6f o:tf], Pp6f To:tf] . Pp6f HjfO" klxnf] k6s ;;'/fnL uPh:tf], csf]{ /f}/a gs{h:tf] . s'/fs} s'/f ug]{ xf] eg] e/tdf]xg klg jfdkGyL, k"0f{lj/fd klg jfdkGyL . lx/f;tdf cfk"mnfO{ Toqf] cfgGbsf] cg'e"lt eO/x"bf e/t afh]x¿nfO{ k"0f{lj/fdsf] Tof] b'Mvsf] ;Demgf eof] xf]nf < ;s] ePg . sf] xf] / k"0f{lj/fd < To;sf] ;Demgf ubf{ g ;Qf k|;Gg x'G5, g ;Qfsf] cfzLjf{b g} k|fKt x'G5
klxnf] lbg s]s] g xf]nf eg]/ ;fy{s oyfy{sf] cjnf]sg ug{ sfsf klg ;8sdf xflh/ ePsf lyP . eb| cj1f elgPsf] sfo{qmd ;'? eof] . cj1fsf/Lx¿ v'?v'? uP/ 6«sdf To;/L plSnP h;/L uf]7fnfsf nf}/fsf] O;f/fdf e]8fx¿ v'?v'? vf]/leq k:5g\ . g cg'xf/df cj1fdo t]h, g cf"vfdf uDeL/ ;+sNk, g rfndf dfgjLo :jfledfgsf] nIf0f, g JolQmTjdf lghTjsf] lsl~rt cfef; dfgf}+ Tof] cj1f;j1f s]xL xf]Og, s]jn r}tGoxLg k|f0fLx¿sf] lbzfxLg ofqf xf] . r}tGoxLgx¿ ha 6«sdf vrfvr eP, Toxf" dUg d'b|fdf kmf]6f] ;];g rNof] . k|x/L efOx¿n] ;d]t 7f"6sf ;fy kf]h ldnfP/ Sofd]/fnfO{ cg'xf/ lbP . ufGwL afafsf] cj1f o:tf] ;+1fz"Go lyPg . hxf" pgsf] cj1fsf] d~rg x'GYof] Toxf" xfjf;d]t klg :tAw x'GYof] / la|l6; ;fd|fHosf] l;+xf;g xlNnGYof] . oxf" < oxf" t dfgf}+ slyt cj1f Pp6f em'/ k|s[ltsf] em'qf] lkmNdsf] sfl:6ªh:tf] 5 .
;;'/fnL¿kL lx/f;tdf s'g} sd/]8 afh] bf]xf]/L uLtsf] cu'jf aGof], s'g} afh]n] sDd/ dsf{P/ efn' gfr b]vfof], s'g} afh]n] sljtf jfrg u¥of] . dfgf}+ Tof] st} zfGt, PsfGt:yndf s'nLgx¿sf] Pp6f jgef]h xf] hxf" ;~rf/sf Sofd]/fsdL{x¿ a]/f]s6f]s hfg kfp"5g\, hxf" ldg/n jf6/ 5]nf]vf]nf] x'G5 / hxf" Sof6l/ª xfp;af6 :jflbi6 d]jfldi7fGg lemsfOG5 . d'n's /utsf] cfxfn, nf;sf] rfª, lrTsf/sf] sf]nfxn / cf";'sf] endf kl/0ft eO/x]sf] a]nf To; d'n'ssf] ;+j]bgzLn gful/snfO{ l5lNnP/ xf":g km';{b x'"b}g . t/ ;;'/fnL¿kL lx/f;tjf;Lx¿nfO{ eof] . ;s] ToxL If0fdf, Tot} st} k"0f{lj/fdx¿sf] hLjgdf k"0f{lj/fd nfUg] vt/fsf] 306L alh/x]sf] lyof] . cj1fsf/LdWo] s'g} ;+j]bgzLn cfTdfn] 306Lsf] Tof] cfjfh ;'Gof] xf]nf <
cfGbf]ngsf/L k~rbnsf 7"nf g]tfx¿nfO{ cfzLjf{b tyf k|;fbbftf dxfdlxd ljb]zLx¿n] 5\of:; elglbP5g\ zfGt d'b|fdf xft yfk] x'G5, ca eg] emg]{ eof] . /, ;'? eof] xft yfKg] xf]8afhL . lg0ff{os egL Gjf/fg ul/Psf] cfGbf]ng lg:t]h kl/xf;df ktLt eof] . /, cfGbf]ngsf] gfd eb| cj1f /fv]/ ufGwL afafsf] x'd{t lnOof] . xft yfKg] wGbfdf Ps lbg t Pp6f 7"nf] bn ;8slt/ cfp"bf aLr af6fd} x/fof] . nf]ssf ;fwf/0f g/gf/Lx¿n] Tof] cnksf] /f]rs cy{ nufP . pm ;8slt/ cfp"b} lyof] . af6fdf p;n] ufu|L af]s]/ kfgL eg{ lx"8]sL s[lifafnfnfO{ b]Vof] . t?0f afnf ¿kjtL lyOg\ . slyt cj1fsf/Lsf] emNnf d'b|f b]v]/ s6fIfsf] efjdf pgL d';'Ss xf"l;g\ . emNnfn] 7fGof] logsf] d':sfgn] d;"u ne u?" eg]sf] x'g'k5{ . a;\, emNnf pt} x/fof] . h;nfO{ d sf] x'", d stf hf"b}5', d]/f] lhDd]jf/L s] xf] / d k'Ug] 7fp" sxf" xf] eGg] s'/f g} yfxf 5}g p;af6 o; ;+s6u||:t d'n'sn] s] cf; ug'{ < emnf{ / vfp"nf egL uf}dftfsf kl/kSj k'qsf kl5kl5 lx"8\g]x¿ :ofn x'G5g\ . hf] dfG5] xf] p;n] t emf/]/ kf] vfG5
emnf{ / vfp"nfsf] /0fgLlt c"ufNg]x¿ rf/ kfp 6]s]/ xft k;fg{ cEo:t x'G5g\ . ltgsf] ljrf/ ToxL xf], ltgsf] cfrf/ ToxL xf] / ltgsf] lgolt klg ToxL xf] . ha nf]eL xft uf}k'qsf rlDsnf, lrNnf / kf]l6nf kmn :kz{ ug{ k'U5, k'q dxf]boaf6 ofrsnfO{ kmn xf]Og, nnf6df nfQLsf] bx|f] :kz{ k|fKt x'G5 . t/ pm slxNo} r]Tb}g . kne/ nnf6sf] 6'6'Nsf] d';f5{, nfQLbftflj?4 s]s] gu?"nf eg]/ x'Íf/ u5{, clg km]l/ rf/ kfp 6]s]/ 6f"ufd'lg xft k;fl/xfN5 . t/ k"0f{lj/fd To:tf xf]Ogg\ . pgL ljrf/lgi7 / :jfledfgL slj x'g\ . ljrf/df pgL dfcf]jfbL x'g ;S5g\ t/ rSs'eGbf tnsf] xltof/nfO{ xltof/ g7fGg] / xTofeGbf tnsf] sd{nfO{ sd{ gdfGg] vfnsf] dfcf]jfbL pgL xf]Ogg\ . kl;gf aufP/ vfg' pgsf] hLjgz}nL xf] / snd pgsf] xltof/ xf] . o; d'n'sdf s'g} g]kfnLnfO{ dx]Gb|jfbL aGg kfpg] clwsf/ eP csf]{ s'g} g]kfnLnfO{ dfcf]jfbL aGg kfpg] clwsf/ lsg gx'g' < sfsf P]nfg u5{g\ rfx] dx]Gb|jfbL xf];\ rfx] dfcf]jfbL, ljrf/sf] k|lt:kwf{df cfkm\gf] ljrf/n] xf/]sf] jf lht]sf] b]Vgsf nflu af"Rg kfpg' p;sf] df}lns clwsf/ xf] . t/ clxn] k"0f{lj/fdnfO{ Tof] clwsf/af6 jl~rt ul/"b}5 . pgnfO{ yfkf ;/sf/n] s'g b'nf]df sf]r]sf] 5 cQf]kQf] 5}g .
;'vbfoL lx/f;tdf lj/fhdfg x'g] y'k|} vnkfqx¿ /fhgLltaf6 cGtWof{g x'"bf klg /fhgLltsf] of] s'¿k ¿k / /Ëdf s]xL km/s kb}{g . AjfOn/ s'v'/fsf] ayfgaf6 s]xL s'v'/f st} cnk x'"bf ayfgsf] ljljwtfdf s] km/s k5{ < t/ sljtfsf] ;+;f/df k"0f{lj/fd gx'g' eg]sf] dfl;"b} uPsf] jgaf6 Pp6f do"/ cnk x'g'h:t} xf] . To;}n] nf]s5]p sfsf lgj]bg u5{g\ k"0f{lj/fdsf] hLjgdf k"0f{lj/fd nfUg glbg cleJolQm :jtGqtfdf ljZjf; ug]{x¿n] df}gj|t e+u ug'{ /fd|f] x'G5 . /, lrxfg ug]/ dfgj clwsf/sf] dfgf] ksfpg]x¿n] lhp"bf] dflg;nfO{ lrxfgdf k'¥ofOg'cl3 g} s]xL af]n] klg kfk nfUb}g .
----
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 08:38 AM
Nepalipanda,
Please,be less acerbic, will you?
>You may want to give away the
>country to the Maoists, but I am not
>ready for that and many many more
> who are by the way in Nepal will not
>accepct your appeasement.
While you were writing these statements, I was informed by someone in Chitwan that the police had just deserted the post in Tandi after the massacre in Parsa. Just promising that you won't appease the Maoists don't mean you can stop the Maoists now. You need to think strategically to defeat them.
By exhausting all the resources to fight against the Maoists rightnow, pro-establishment people are falling right on the Maoist trap rightnow.
|
| nepalipanda |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 09:03 AM
Biswo:
Fair enough, but you need to also refrain from labeling people. Just because, I support RNA and you don't does not mean your are a democrat and I am a royalist. Where did you get this idea? Your constant opposition to RNA does not make you a Maoist. Does it? I am willing to leave it at that.
You keep giving the news of the Tandi and all, I will keep giving you the bombing, maiming, and hacking incidents. I will encourage the RNA, how futile it may be to you, to defend the country (don't come with human rights abuse stuff, no one supports violations). The politician's job is to seek political solutions.
If we go beyond that then we may start to think about some solutions.
Who are the pro establishment people? Do you consider NC and UML also pro-establishment. Remember, Girija, Nepal, and Deuba, and Thapa do not support CA outright, and they all don't like to cave in to the Maoists in any shape or form without getting any thing from them. Actually they want to go for an election, the general election that is.
Are you calling them pro-establishment? Am I a pro-establishment person? Or those like you and me curretnly 65% favoring a united front between the King and th parties on the current NT polls, are they all -pro-establishment? Who are these people? Are you a pacifist?
I will give you that exhausting resources to fight Maoists in an unwinnable warfare is not good. Noone is denying that so don't state the obvious. They were the ones who broke away from the table. They even did not stick around to give a counter proposal. You say that they won't surrender arms. Is this their position or your position? Should they or should they not, especially if we want to move the process forward even with an election for a CA or referendum? Do you support the position that they should surrender arms at all?
|
| GP |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 09:46 AM
"After the death of Deepak Gurung, Baburam's TKP article was wo repugnant and full of nonsense. Would the New York Times have allowed Bin Laden's article after the 9/11 incident? Hell no! "
Govt. should ban publishing articles in any newspapers written by F___ing Maoists. Isolate these f bastards.
GP
|
| Ruby |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 12:38 PM
GP ji,
Its a matter of freedom of press, say the govt. bans Maoists' documents today, maybe tomorrow, they'll wanna ban negative commentaries about the govt. itself, and there we go, another hinge on our already fringed civil liberties. And US is the most propoganda spinning /media controlled country in the entire world. Why would we ever wanna follow thier lead?
|
| nepalipanda |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 01:09 PM
"Its a matter of freedom of press, say the govt. bans Maoists' documents today, maybe tomorrow, they'll wanna ban negative commentaries about the govt. itself, and there we go, another hinge on our already fringed civil liberties."
Good point Ruby. I do not support this, but my point was to show his hypocracy, not to promote gagging of liberty.
Speaking of the following the lead of the American media, I have a mixed feeling about it. You are right, the network like FOX is nothing but a cheer leader when it comes to supporting the US actions in Iraq. The embedded journalism was a shameful display of controlled event. At the same time, you need to give these network some credit for not spreading venomous reactions to the 9/11 event, inciting masses to take revenge against people like you and me. In countries like India, many thousands of people of foriegn origins would have been killed if a similar 9/11 event had happened. Soccer events result hundreds of deaths in many of the Latin American countries. Just remember the Gujarat incident, where the whole Hindu machinary including the gvt unloaded their wrath upon the Muslim minority killing thousands in the process. The media, I hear, did not help the matter (I have nbot done a checking, and I could be wrong.). But you are right, the US media is far from perfect. Yet, they put Nixan on trial and got rid of people like Newt and Dick Army. At the same, they did not drive Clinton out of town.
The homeland security and the loss of liberty in the US is the big item and we just have to watch how the media takes on this critically.
|
| nepalipanda |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 01:19 PM
But, I must admit that when it comes to their domestic liberty, they are quite active, but in matters related to their so called national security conflict, especially outside the country, they don't quite play it fair. That's why I tuned in to BBC for international news.
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 01:34 PM
Nepalipanda,
"self-styled democrat intellectuals (but in reality closet Pol Pots?) "
"There are people who are ready to give away 60% of Nepal to these thugs than support the RNA."
These are the statements that were labelled against people like me in this thread. For your information, I didn't say 'give away', what I said was let them run what they got now, and defend what we have, in ala Colombia style. Don't misinterpret my statements. RNA needs to do much more to get back that contryside that Maoists now control.
For your information: I am not calling NC, UML pro-establishment. I am calling Gyanendra and his henchmen pro-establishment whose primary job is to finish off the democrats. That was the goal for which they were ready to sleep with the Maoists.
For those who think Gyanendra's rule is the only rule that allows TKP to publish Babu Ram's article, hold on before you make judgement: TKP folks were once arrested for publishing BRB's article when Gyanendra had just ascended to the throne. The ensuing outcry was so worldwide, that they don't do it anymore, at least not with TKP guys. Not because they are fundamentally tolerant of diverse views, it is because they can't do that rightnow. Alienated by mass of Nepal, they can't afford to be alienated by the fourth state of Nepal and the international mass.No one is being merciful and magnanimous.
Royalists are not afraid of Girija, Madhav etc. I also allow the fact that these leaders failed the nation. Most of them are also corrupt. But what royalists are afraid of is what , like the lawyer Goerge Hanson(Jack Nicholson) said to a hippie Dannis Hopper in 1969 movie EasyRider, they represent: freedom. That's why I am ready to support these leaders for the time being because it is not these people that I am supporting, it is what they represent that I am supporting.
King Gyanendra needs to do something real quick to change the fate of the nation. The following prescription may work:
1. Publish a roadmap about how he is going to put the nation back on track to democracy.
2. Get rid of extra 520 million rupees that he each year takes away from national coffer, in comparison to what Birendra used to take. That money betterl be used for Maoist-pidit sanghathan.
3. Make himself a monarch like that of Britain/Norway. His nauseating claim of being 'constructive' monarchy has already taken the nation to the verge of civil war with multiple warring parties.
4. Make military responsible to the parliament. Make military personnels punishable for committing civilian crimes, and for the corruption that goes on forever inside it. Allow greater access to MahaLekha parikshyak in its affair.
5. Make miliatry more meritocratic, by making its enrollment process more transparent, probably providing something like Lok Sewa Ayong structure therein.
6. Make it possible for Nepal Police to prosecute his family members if they commit crimes.
7. Give the detailed explanation about where his properties are, and where his brother's properties are.
8.Make a war cabinet in consultation with the parties who were represented in the last parliament.
If Nepal is to be saved from the menace of Maoists, this should be done real quick from the king. Otherwise, we are in for a long war, and criticizing democrats in public forums may not help the royalists at all. And as a democrat, I would rather see one of the two evils fight first, and would save my energy to fight with whoever will be left in the next stage.It is not impossible to fight with them:examples of both Monarchy and communism defeated by popular uprisings in the last century exist abundantly!
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| darshankaka |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 02:11 PM
No, It's time to put those agitating parties again on the power and see how they will solve it. It's time to make Madhav Nepal PM. Let him be PM, bichara !!! Then see how these political parties will clash each other. This is what King G will do now. It's yet again drama time.
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| ruby |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 02:24 PM
Now that the King is back, i wonder what the king will do, e.g. firing SB Thapa and hiring the bahudales. That will at least take care of the bahudales - then there will be two forces, the king and bahudales, againt the Maoists, unlike 3 parties now. This should take place soon. I don't think the king will do another stupid thing by appointing another panche at the top. What do you think?
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| darshankaka |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 02:29 PM
Talking about signs... we have already seen signs of what King G gonna do now.
The agitating 5 parties (panchedal, what a name given by Khagendra Sangruala in his article in Kantipur) even pre-poned their isobedience protest not to hamper King G's arrival in Airport from Landon visit. Sangruala rightly said that these panchedals are nothing but waiting for the fruit to fall. That's why they term this 7th protest as the final one. Idiots.
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| ruby |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 02:29 PM
Biswo ji,
" For those who think Gyanendra's rule is the only rule that allows TKP to publish Babu Ram's article, hold on before you make judgement....No one is being merciful and magnanimous."
I totally dont beleive that Gyanendra is being merciful, I was just stating that it would be WRONG for the govt. to stop TKP from publishing that article. What can possibly be worse than prohibiting a gathering of 5 people! King is maddd scared of his own people!
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| nepalipanda |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 05:22 PM
Darshankaka:
You are right, and I agree with you. I also pary for a logical conclusion however. Deuba tried it, why not let Madhav, Mr. ChakkaJaam, try it.
Go RNA!
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| nepalipanda |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 05:37 PM
Biswo wrote:
"RNA needs to do much more to get back that contryside that Maoists now control."
I agree. Go RNA and I support them 100%. They need training in human rights rules and good air support.
"For your information: I am not calling NC, UML pro-establishment. I am calling Gyanendra and his henchmen pro-establishment whose primary job is to finish off the democrats. That was the goal for which they were ready to sleep with the Maoists."
Your assertion has no basis.
"For those who think Gyanendra's rule is the only rule that allows TKP to publish Babu Ram's article, hold on before you make judgement: TKP folks were once arrested for publishing BRB's article when Gyanendra had just ascended to the throne."
Don't be selective: he was arrested by the "democratic" government of Deuba. (Correct it if I am wrong.) I opposed then and I oppose now.
"That's why I am ready to support these leaders for the time being because it is not these people that I am supporting, it is what they represent that I am supporting."
Again, you are stating the obvious. I never said I would not support democracy or even these people.
"King Gyanendra needs to do something real quick to change the fate of the nation. The following prescription may work:"
He tried and failed just like Bhattarai, Girija, Deuba, Lokendra, and Thapa. Now it is time for him to sit down woth the political leaders and figure out a roadmap.
We need a lot more than 1-8 to fix the fiasco.
Your singular focus on Gyandra and Birendra will not solve the killing. It will take a lot more than that.
"And as a democrat, I would rather see one of the two evils fight first, and would save my energy to fight with whoever will be left in the next stage.It is not impossible to fight with them:examples of both Monarchy and communism defeated by popular uprisings in the last century exist abundantly! "
As a democrat myself, I would not let them govern anywhere. As a democrat, I would support the RNA 100% to bring them to the table. As a democrat, I would put international pressure and watch human rights violation. As a democrat, I would forge a unified alliance between the King and the parties to take this menace head on and offer compromises if needed.
Be strong RNA!
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| nepalipanda |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 06:22 PM
Multitask: Bombing, Chopping, Shooting, and Hanging
Bombing:
Sign that the Maoists do not toleterate discrimination between the men and the women:
They placed a bomb in a ladie's toilet.
Chopping:
Meanwhile, the Maoists have assassinated Krishna Bahadur Thapa, the former village development committee (VDC) vice-chairman at Malma in Baglung district. The rebels had chopped off the 56-year-old mans head, a security official said.
Shooting:
Meanwhile, reports from Bhairahawa said a group of six armed Maoists shot dead an ex-Indian army captain, SB Gurung, at his residence in Shiv Pur of Kapilvastu district yesterday. Security sources at Mahendranagar said a group of Maoists killed four patrolling policemen in Vyas VDC, Darchula, yesterday night.
Hanging:
Reports from Charikot said armed Maoists brutally killed Uddav Prasad Shivakoti, a teacher of the local Kalinaag Secondary School of Shingti VDC, Charikot at Namdu-6, Dolakha today, by hanging him from a tree.
Source: Himalayan Times
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| nepalipanda |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 06:33 PM
Darshankaka:
Do you mean to say "useful idiots." A good book to read is: Useful Idiots by Mona Charen.
An excerpt:
"the record of their actual positions on matters from the nature of the Soviet system to the need for defense spending, to aiding anticommunist guerillas around the globe are available. They reveal what those who lived through it recall -- that the question of how or even when to challenge the communists bitterly divided America for at least thirty years. And liberals were, almost without exception, inclined to excuse, justify, or ignore the grave sins of our adversaries while always calling down the harshest possible judgment on the U.S."
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| mitra 2 |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 07:58 PM
"...Adolf Hitler has written in his autobiography, Mein Kampf, that you should always keep the country in fear if you want to remain in the leadership. Keep the country always afraid that the neighbor is going to attack, that there are countries who are designing a attack, that they are preparing to attack - go on creating rumors. Never leave people at ease, because when they are at ease they don't bother about the politicians. When people are really at ease, politicians are meaningless. Keep people always afraid, then the politician is powerful. Whenever there is war the politician becomes a great man. Churchill or Hitler or Stalin or Mao - they are all products of war. If there were no Second World War there would be no Winston Churchill and no Hitler and no Stalin. War creates situation, gives opportunities for people to dominate and become leaders..." - Osho (Courage - the joy of living dangerously)
Once again I'm going to claim that both the King and the Maoists are the beneficiaries of this war. King, who was a businessman until the royal massacre, is now center of attraction - a dream/goal of a politician. Instead of questioning his acts to dissolve the democratically elected govt, his mad son, his commitments to democracy, and the truth of massacre itself, people are compelled to think and worry about the Maoists. The Maoists are just means to fulfill king's interests. Without the Maoists, king is helpless. He had a tough path ahead of him, instead he emerged as a stronger king. Thanks to the Maoists who made it possible. They have successfully diverted king-related issues away. This is where I fail to buy BRB's argument that the shah dynasty has finished after massacre. Daal mei khuch kala hai.
I don't buy another argument that claims that Maoists are born because of this and that problem. We always had those problems and since when the Maoists started representing them? During panchayat era we had it. NC/UML represented them then. Thanks to those problems - they got into the power. Now the Maoists are trying to do the same thing. So, it's all about power ko lagi khel. Those socio-economic issues are going to stay here no matter who rules the country. Let's not forget that the Maoists were defeated miserably in the election. Have they become wiser since they picked up the guns? Otherwise why should we believe them more than the last election? Since we have heard so much about BRB and his intelligence, I'm sure he wouldn't require a gun on his hand to convince others about his plans.
When Sher Bahadur was gone, Chand came to solve our nation's problem. Thapa thought he was the man since Chand failed. Now MaKuNe is so pumped up about the same. I'm pretty sure he know the outcome if he were to be PM. Still, he does not hesitate. If this is not for power, what is it?
If Maoists are really against king, they are not only after power, their war is a real people's war, then why the whole nation is terrorized and the palace is at peace? We don't know how many more innocent lives are going to be lost, but the future political developments in our country would be very interesting to evaluate both of these extremists - the King and the Maoists.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 08:28 PM
Nepalipanda,
Just because someone hollers here "Go RNA" doesn't make him more pro-RNA. In deed, it may be even anti-RNA thing to say that, especially if you are sending the green young recruits to unknown, uncharted treacherous territories of mountainous territories of Nepal: it is like sending them to death.
Now that may not be big deal to those who are busy in pipedreaming in Kathmandu, and in deed that may not be a big deal to those whose loved ones are not in the lower ranked fighting squad of army, it is a big deal to the rest of Nepali democrats who want RNA to be fully prepared, backed by people who are willing to supply intelligence to the RNA.In war, intelligence is one of the most valued possessions, and that is what Nepal government's security apparatus lacks now.
It is always interesting to note that UML central office in Balkhu almost immediately receives the news of kidnapping of one of its comrades in Jumla, but RNA probably needs more than that time when the same thing happens to its jawan. RNA's Dang debacle was mainly due to Maoist infiltration in army camp, not the other way. In this situation, only if people back the RNA, and RNA demonstrate the respect for basic human rights of citizens, can this war be won.
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| nepalipanda |
Posted
on 10-Sep-03 09:16 PM
Biswo:
I do agree with a lot of things you wrote above, except I still say go RNA because I like them to survie and defend the country against the Maoists. They had been given that duty under Deuba, an elected gvt, and under Thapa, an unelected gvt. Thus I support giving them air power, good weapons, and better training, so they can move around better and have a rapid deployment capacity. Their surgical capacity will also reduce civilian casulties. This is just temporary, because such wars are hard to win. The policy is what I have problem with not the RNA and the Jawans. The policy of protraction, that is. That's why I support an unified front of the King, the RNA, and the political parties so that they can quickly get the country back on a democratic track.
Your comment about the intelligence is excellent. They must work on it, if they wish to have better results. Just being brute about such campaigns is not very smart. Case in point is Iraq: the US Marines had no trouble in defeating the Rep Guard, but then got into trouble for not being to deal with the people. The enemies are not walking around in uniform anymore. And the Iraqis are not sharing any info with them. The Bathists, like the Maoists, seem to have an edge when it comes to intelligence.
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| Brook |
Posted
on 11-Sep-03 05:25 AM
Enlightened by a short summer visit to Nepal, for which a "pseudo tourist-experience" would be an euphemism, and armed with numerous "anecdotes" picked up on the trail (all of whom are, of course, delivered with the seriousness and authoritative objectivity of a nuclear physicist) a certain prolific intellectual based in Texas condescends on the pipe-dreamers of Kathmandu.
The irony'd be almost bearable if it hadn't been for an additional punch he delivers (utterly clueless of his intellectual duplicity in display). He chides the RNA- backers for failing to see the ground reality when the only ground reality in Nepal today is FEAR and INSECURITY. He accuses the democrats on this board and elsewhere of having failed to exercise the cold, surgical, emotion-less (and selfless) pragmatism necessary to solve this problem while his own stubborn, blind and unconditional "love-affair" with the Palace (for which he's made a name for himself here at Sajha) is an embarrassment to republicans everywhere.
Astute readers who have followed similar discussions in the past will recall, but I suspect, lost count of the number of times this gentleman has been caught using prevarication, misrepresentation of facts and utmost hypocrisy to make twisted arguments in favour of his prujudiced points of view. He's neither ashamed nor repentant. In terms of ethics, what they call SANSKAAR in Nepali, this gentleman has proved himself repeatedly to be no different from Girija Prasad Koirala, MaKuNe and the ilk he professes moral superiority over.
Ladies and gentleman of Sajha, I don't know about you all but this gentleman who left TIA this summer with high hopes of entering Narayanhiti on Maobadi piggybacks cracks me up in all his seriousness just as much as Mahara did when he reiterated his party's committment to the market economy and maybe a tad more than the agitating parties when they rescheduled their "agitation" to accomodate the King's arrival.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 11-Sep-03 08:10 AM
>Astute readers who have followed
>similar discussions in the past will
>recall, but I suspect, lost count of
>the number of times this gentleman
> has been caught using prevarication,
> misrepresentation of facts and utmost
>hypocrisy to make twisted arguments
>in favour of his prujudiced points of view.
I will love to see if you provide this statement with proof.
As for 'tourist experience', Mr Brook, I am more experienced than people like you, whose sole 'intelligence' comes from jealousy and intolerance of others.
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| Brook |
Posted
on 11-Sep-03 09:12 AM
Biswo ji, I could dig up the threads-gone-by but I won't. I won't because, like I said, observant readers here already know what I am talking about and I certainly don't feel like putting in all the effort into illuminating the interiors of someone incapable of honest introspection and a healthy dose of selfcriticsm.
So let those ideas flow from the one-way-steet that leads out of your head Biswo ji. We are all listening. Maybe someday, we shall all wisen up like you.
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| prem_dai |
Posted
on 11-Sep-03 09:49 AM
Any Ideas on how these Maoists leaders like BRB Prachanda satisfy thier sexual needs?
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 11-Sep-03 10:16 AM
No, Brook.
You can't just throw allegations, and say you won't prove it here. If you have guts and time to accuse others, then you need to have courage to prove what you said. Either you don't say, or you prove it, or at least try to do it.
Just because you are using a masked name doesn't make you less responsible. For example, yes I went to Nepal, in what you want to say 'tourism'. Fine. But what is your knowledge about Nepal? Your dogmatic conviction about what it 'should' be,right? Where have you been in Nepal, and when? I am at least a lot better than some of those who pretend to know everything. For example, when I posted my 'estimate' of regions of Maoist influence, one self-proclaimed royalists was like "why should I believe you?" bla bla. Those who never left Kathmandu did have difficulty understanding what's going on outside. You have the same problem. You don't know how people think of Maoists. You are sad that I am not supporting Maoists enough,and so I am not 'enough' republican. But stop pretending that you are like a Mullah who can authoritatively proclaim who is 'enough' republican.
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| ujol sherchan |
Posted
on 11-Sep-03 09:34 PM
To the dueling B&B,
Ezra Pound and T.S. Eliot fighting on Captain's tower
While calypso singers laugh at them
Fishermen hold flowers...
-B.D.
Well poets used to fight like this...and then rock musicians came along and stole their audience.
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| GP |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 08:55 AM
IT is just wonderful why NC and UML don't have militia to fight against F Maoists.
Its also wonderful, NC and UML are silent over the death of their cadres, because of Masoit butchers?
They have no guts, however, they pay a big sum of money as Chanda ... what a joke, is not it.
Today no one, including Biswo ji has capacity to denounce Maoists in public, except
in this Sajha.com ..... its also Bidambana haina ra.
GP
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| Chordaku420 |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 08:59 AM
Hey GP,
Do not go after Bishwo at all, I enjoy reading his view. Do you denounce Gyane and his Gundas ??
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 01:55 PM
Ujolji,
Let the Rockers rock! :-)
GPji,
I am sure I have been very scathing towards the Maoists. What more should I do? What I object is the idea of some individuals that those who don't support the Maoists should necessarily support the king. That is not something I am comfortable with. I think the king has consistently been the obscurant in our country, he has failed us, all he cares is about money, and he needs to be dispensed with.
In a related note, I want to relay you a comment one royalist made long ago. He once rhapsodized about the past of Nepal when not all Nepali people could go to overseas.[I suggest you to read Patab Prabas of Tara Nath Sharma if you don't know how hard it used to be to go to foreign countries if you were not a relative of any high class officers in Panchayat era. Even with the full scholarship in University of Wisconsin, Madison, he had a lot of problems to get his own passport!] "Now," he said, "every eire-gaire-natthu-khaire goes to foreign countries, and our nation is losing its prestige. People know us as an exporter of labourers." I hope you have heard of this remark. That "rich" person was ashamed to see other Nepali in ,say, London and New York, because they were not rich enough, because they were toiling in those cities. It never bothered him to see one of his own countrymates dying because of diarrhea in a village in Kaski, it never bothered him to see beggars and khates in the streets of Kathmandu, it definitely didn't bother him that he/his father etc were the reason why these uneducated people were toiling like that rather than using their brain and earning bread, but it bothered him a lot to see a middle class Nepali working in NY and London.
I am trying to point out to this tendency in Nepal among aristocrats. King and other aristocrats: they don't care about people. Why should we need them any more? Why should we save them by immolating ourselves fighting against the Maoists, especially if we know it very well that fighting against the Maoists necessarily means strengthening the rule of the Shah/Rana aristocracy in Nepal?The king needs to tell people what he will give up if we fight against Maoists. We are not going to back one evil against another evil.
If you think Govinda Raj Joshi is the only evil, then you are wrong. He has a phalanx of comrades from Panchayat era who have outdone him. Some purba-panche have gone so far to say that since previously rich 'panche' and 'mandale' are rich already, they won't be corrupt anymore. Which is again wrong: the greed doesn't have any limit. Gyanendra already had 100+ million for his household expenses, he had his own Soaltee Enterprises with interests in tea, hotel and trading sectors, he also had inherited his brother's properties, yet he had to increase it to 600+ millions. Marcos accumulated his wealth to about 10billion, Mobutu to 4 billion. Our Rana/Shah rulers won't stop at any red sign.
Chordaku420:
Thanks for your nice words.
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| nepalipanda |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 07:32 PM
GPJi:
You raise good point. The low-level workers who are closer to the ground are the ones geeting screwed, the ones at the top --UML, NC, and RPP -- all pay off the Maoists.
I do talk to many here in the US who are stuck up Nepalis (and they came from all political background--NC, UML, and RPP, and many are doctors PhD and professionals; many are strong anti Monarch ) who say what Biswo is saying: Nepal Ko beijati bheko chha Yi gas station wala le garda-- jhan greencard le ta jhan khattamai chha.
I have seen some Mexicans who act like white american and criticise thier country and politicians for their corrupt behavior, and I have seen Indian friends who do not miss opportunity to denounce their Indian birader back home. Well, the current Nepalis, many professionals, also do the same to make themselves closer to this culture by criticising their hard working countrymen and women. It happens all the time, and they are not necessarily rcih from the much hated elites from the gharania Kathmanduites. Actually, many professionals here are not Gharania royalists. It is just the opposite. It is a human nature.
I even encountered a Mexican who said now he hates hot food, and he had been in this country only for years. It is not what he said but the way he was saying. A non-gharania Nepali friend was asking me about what Jmara was.
It is not uncommon to find people here in the US (inbcluding from Nepal) to be extremely critical of their system, culture, tradition, religion, heritage, and political system. You must have heard many say: I don't mind eating beef because it comes from an American cow, not a Nepali cow. ha ha ha....
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| nepalipanda |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 07:34 PM
I meant Dashai's Jamara.
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