| Username |
Post |
| saroj |
Posted
on 11-Sep-03 11:59 AM
Someone brought up a valid point regarding Hindus eating cows. I think this deserves a separate topic for discussion.
Why can't we have a religion that is flexible with the times? Why do we have to follow something blindly? What is so different about a cow and a water buffalo that one is worshipped while the other is slaughtered and open for consumption?
We are not ignorant people who have to follow doctrines that do not make any sense in the present context. Specially when we look at hinduism, there are so many minor practices that we follow blindlyl but in the present day and age, they seem to not make any sense.
Can we form a new age HINDU sect that has moved on with time and make amends to the old doctrines that do not make sense in today's 21st century?
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| john doe |
Posted
on 11-Sep-03 12:10 PM
One can only eat so much chicken. Thats the only doctrine I follow.
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| bhenda2 |
Posted
on 11-Sep-03 12:32 PM
I always wonder why why why cant we eat cow??? because in Nepal women in gaughar are very deficient in iron, specially bahun chetri women. If we ate ghai, ranga whatever is available we would not have that problem and our younger generation would be healthier too...just a thought. I eat cow, American cow...nothing tastes better than juicy steak. And I have a question to Sajha Bidwans...which holy scriptures of ours say we cant eat cow??
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| dhananjya |
Posted
on 11-Sep-03 03:08 PM
Dear Saroj,
I want to write something in your thread. How to begin? ann, ok.
Hindu, the word hindu is actually given by travellers. Greek travelers, used to say endus for the people who live around Indus (Sindhu) river. Thats where the name India is. But, arabian travellers has no eeeee.... pronounciation, so they start to say hindus, instead of eindus. What I want to tell you is the name is latest, it has no Sanskrit origion.
My brother, society, culture, tradition everything got changed as the time changes. Hinduism has a great history. I don't want to make the posting long going to great detail. Hinduism is divided into two parts
1. vaidic :
2. Pauranic:
Vaidic: Before Buddha, there were three Vedas. Chanting of veda mantras, learning vedas by heart used to be the job of Brahman ( who were Brahman? i will tell some time later). There were Barna (Brahaman, Kshetriya, Baishya, Suddra) and Ashram (Brahmacharya, Girastha, Banaprastha and Sannyas) system in the society. The society were farm oriented. People seemed to be lacto vegitarian. King which was called Kshetriya used to be the head of society, the kingdom used to be limited within a wall surrounding the city. The boundary that seperate Rajya from Arajya was called IndraKilla. Indra, Barun, Agni and Parjapati used to be main deities to be worshipped. There were no Brahma, Bishnu, and Shankar. Later on Varna and Ashram system got polluted (who polluted? its a long history). Some greedy people started secrifice system. They started Goghatk Aggya (cow killing aggya), Ashowmedh Aggya (hourse killing aggya) and so on so forth (i can tell you who had started and why started but it will be so long). Vaidic people used to marry their own sister( don't surprise, its true, do research). vaidic people used to do Swambar( Swam+Bar=self choose husband) without any vedic Mantra.
The evidence of these cultures can be seen in Buddhas time:
Buddha has married, Ashodhara form his own Gautam Gottra where as now a days its seen. King Prassena Jeet, King Bimbasar had married their own sisters. Nanda, Buddhas causin had married Janapad kalleni who was his own sister.
In sattipattana Sutta, it is clearly said,
Goghatako va Go Ghataka va si va Gavam viddatwa chatu mahapathe
Meaning: A butcher and his student killed a cow at the centre of the cross road. Killing cow and eating cow was common those days.
Pauranic age:
This age start after Buddha. In this age Brahaman composed new literature to response the idea generated by Buddhism and Jainism. These literatures are named as Puran. they are completely different than the Vedas. In puranic age, Vedas had gone to background and Puranas prevailed. Devatas like Indra, Som, Barun, Parjapati becomes secondary and new Characteres Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar were introduced. Idea of incarnation is developed. Since puranas were developed just to responce Buddhism and Jainism, they are full of miracles and surprises. Law of physics does not work for those people. They gave respect to cow in Puranas (i know why did they do). They started to worship cow. Buddha was the first person who opposed of killing cows ( he actualling opposed killing any being but he opposed especially for cow. In modern days aslo, in Burma Desh (Myanma), Ledi Sayado, one of the enlighton monk and star of Buddhas teaching urge people not to kill cow n bull). They start to chant Vaidic mantras in special occasions. They made those verses secret. Actually those verses are the experiencial knowledge of Rishis.
The Hindu society that we are seeing is Pauranic society. I would like to say rigid pauranic society. There were some meaning when puran were developed, now that meaning has also lost. So, in this society, Hindus does not eat cow.
Many thing changes with time. In which society we born and grow we think that society and culture is excellent. This is true for one and all. Wise is one who does comparative study and who try to know the reality rather than blind faith.
Dude, nature is very strenge. The earth which seems stationary, in fact spinning. Sun seems rotating round the earth, but in reality, just other way around. What seems reality may be different than that, one has to explore for that.
dhananjaya
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| bhenda2 |
Posted
on 11-Sep-03 04:17 PM
Dhananjaya ji,
Tapai lai ta sarai gyan rahechha. I am glad to know that I am not going to hell for eating steak...I knew it is all man made rules to controll men. Thank you anyways.
Bhenda
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| Shikhar |
Posted
on 11-Sep-03 04:30 PM
dhananjya JI:
That's deep .... wish I could just sit and discuss about religion, culture, tradition with you in person and be enlightened. Its not easy to meet people who can explain stuff in detail these days.
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| bold |
Posted
on 11-Sep-03 11:42 PM
saroj ji,no problem you can do what you want ,nowadays nobody care if you are not in nepla, so why worry, have fun with hamburger,beef stick,yammmmmmmmmmmm
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| saroj |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 07:53 AM
I think most rules come from priests who impose the rules in order to be in power. For example the priests considered them to be on topmost position on the caste system.
Comonnn give me a break. They make the rules, they place them in top of the system. They decide some other human beings ie shudras are on the bottom of the system. Hinduism is one of the coolest religion, except for the caste system.
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| saroj |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 08:07 AM
It's not that they don't, you just don't hear about it.
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| The_Hunter |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 08:15 AM
Personally don't care about Religion Shit. It ain't nothing but a trouble and destruction.
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| Shiva Shiva!! |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 08:31 AM
Impressed with Dhananjaya Ji's Posting. Auta religious seminar garnu parla jasto cha Dhananjaya ji tapai sanga milera. Mon ma nai kasto shanti aayo!!
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| DHANANJAYA |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 01:00 PM
Guys,
May be some of you are feeling little odd as you read my posting. it may be against of your thinking and against of your belief. I would also have felt if i did not have studied. Every individual advocate his culture, society and family. Everybody makes colorful picture of himselves and the things associated to him. As one start to explor oneself one finds who is he, where is he, and where does he stands. If one is not self explorer, most of the things what he/she thinks about himself/herself will be virtual or fake pride. Same is true for the things associated to oneself. We are ego centered person. We first draw our own image beautiful in our mind then store the image of things associated us beautiful. Culture and Sect is another think that we always want to advocate. In reality this is true for almost all poeple of the world. The culture where we born and grow, we love it and we just accept it without using our intellect. we make a type of virtual world in our mind and think that world is true. So you guys may not believe what I said above because of this reason. I don't wonder, I was also same as you.
Bheda ji,
Its not a knowledge. Its a information collection, a machine also can do this job. Rael defination of knowledge is somethng different.True knowledge is that which liberate me from my mental negativities(emotions)and give me happiness. I don't think that eating this and that is sin, sin is to pollute the mind. Sin is to generate defilements in mind.
Shikhar ji,
This is just a history. I am interested and I studied. I am not proud of knowing these history neither this history will enlighton me. If you are interested, you need not have to see me, here are the refrences,
1.Hinduism-Religion of the world, narrated by Ben Kingsley: You can find vedio or Dvd in any library of a good school.
2. Kutadanta Sutta, Digha Nikaya- where you can see how secrifice were done those days
3.Ambastha Sutta, Digha Nikaya
4. Vedanta- where you can see direct response of Buddhism.
5.Satipattana Sutta: where you can see secrifice of cow and bull were common.
6. Garud puran: where you can see direct oppose of Buddha n his teaching then you can imagine when puranas were written.
7.I have read, some part of Rigveda(considered oldest scripture of the world, this is the main veda which represents religious theme)only, see there if you find Vishnu and Shiva and incarnation concept.
8.Read Yog Basistha and Patangali Youg...where you will find they have expressed Buddhas teachig with beautiful story and practice but message is different. same case in gita.
Dude, I am reality loving person. I don't believe in any faith. I neither belongs to any sects like Hindu, baudha, jain, christian, muslim etc. I believe you guys are open minded person, you can tell me if my posting contain biasing. I would not have posted these for sectarian, communal parson who has stuck to his culture and tradition blindly.
This is not my view, this is all history. You are also access to it, I have given refrence above.
I don not hegitate to say what I know. I have adapted a scientific culture where one can boldly say to people what he/she know. I have not claimed something that I don't know to enflat my ego.
Shiva Shiva,
if you are open minded i will love to share. I love to have friendship with humble, simple and openminded person.
daggg, saroj, T_H, bold, i am with you guys. I also don't believe on religion. If you guys are defining Dharma as culture, scripture, faith, tradition, rites and rituals, fasting, gogmas etc, then I am pesimistic. These are the things that are cause of regress. I reject Dharma. Let me go to hell.
Real Dharma has to do nothing with these things.
pure Dharma is
1.living wholesome life
2.getting mastry over the mind
3.eredicate impurity of mind
this is the gift of our ansisters. This is better way of living. I love this. I love Dharma.
Dhananjaya
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| VincentBodega |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 01:13 PM
I dont think anyone of you has really eaten BEEF.
The meat produce we are talking about here is not BEEF, its STEER.
So go figure ...
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| saroj |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 01:22 PM
My Dharma is the follows:
- Love/appreciate My Life
- Respect/appreciate Others' Lives
And everything that comes in between.
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| dautari |
Posted
on 13-Sep-03 01:43 PM
Vincent Bodega jee,
What is "steer"? Sorry, if I asked a very stupid question, but I genuinely don't know what steer is.
Dhananjaya jee,
Your philosophy is great. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. I had never eaten beef before I came here in the USA.
But, why such a big noise over beef? What about chicken? There was a time when people (brahmins) had to bathe and change "janai" if they even touched hens and roosters. The birds were not allowed inside the house. Now almost all non-vegetarians find chicken delicious (esp local kukhura). The same with pork and buff which were deemed "abhakshya" by the brahmin/kshetri people. Nowadays noone gives a damn if brahmin and kshettris enjoy pork, buff, "kodako jhol", so on and so forth. So, I don't give a damn either.
As for religion, I myself don't know whether I am religious or not. I fave faith in GOD. Yet, I feel uneasy when I have to follow the rules and regulations of any religious texts. I go to temples, I go to buddhist temples, I go to church and I go to masjid. And I respect all religions and all forms of "GOD".
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| VincentBodega |
Posted
on 13-Sep-03 03:38 PM
dautarijyu,
How do I explain this. Tapainlai khasi kasari "banaincha" ta thaha hola...
tyasaigari, sandelai "khasi" banaya pachi STEER huncha. All the cows are safe in the milk farms, so dont worry people :)
--BV
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| DHANANJAYA |
Posted
on 13-Sep-03 05:16 PM
Dear Saroj,
love/appreciate my life,
respect/appreciate others life,
This is nothing but the wholsome life, that I have writeen in #1. I am glad, you are following true Dharma.
What if somethime your mind becomes so emotional that you can not love and appreciate your life and respect and paarecite others lives? For this you have to practice second and third step of Dharma. I really appreciate.
Dautari Ji,
Thanks for appreciation. first of all would like to say that i have no philoshopy. i just want to follow the law of nature.
India where Aryas were living were farm centered society. Bull were used to plough and cow were used to drink milk. In scripture, you can find bull gives us food so its like father and cow gives us milk so it is like mother.
why not true for buffelo. well, arya considered milk of cow is medicine and good for body, but not of buffelo. Buffelo is very angry and dangerous animal so they made it evil and still in Dashain, Buffelos are secrificed as Mahisasur. You might have heard, cow is very humble animal, so there is a saying "gai jastai sojho".
During Buddha, there were a lot of secrifices of cows and bull. Buddha was against killing, but he used to eat meat. he used to eat whatever is given in his begging bowl. he said in one sutta, "there was only one disease that is oldage before people start to eat cow", I really don't know whether he said this out of compassion over cow or there were something harmful in beef.
composer of purana took a lot of good things from Buddhas teaching because it were prevalling in the whole indian contenent as well as abroad. one of them is not to kill cow. they made cow as secred animal. they wrote in puran that she is godess. she should be worshiped. people followed the purana. some people extended this purana and now they just worship the cow they don' t even drink her milk. you can see this tradition in our tarai n some part of up and bihar.
puran gave wide options to Hindus. some were vegitarian, they developed such type of puran. some who were non veg. developed their type of puran. you can see now a days some Brahaman are vegitarian. Marbadi and Gujrati of india are vegitarian. But most of Hindu population are non vegitarian. They made their own rule, some meat is Pabittra, some are apabittra. Its nothing but custom, tradition. some traditions have good scientific meaning too.
Secred thread, Janai, is actually not a ritual. It represents Drija. Dri+Ja=two+life. Aryas considers one life from the womb of mother it like egg from a bird. Another life after breaking the cover of ignorence, ie after being enlighton, its like breaking the cover of egg and being fully flagged chicken. those who becomes Drija used to use that thread to seperate form normal person. Now a days everboy are putting it. I feel shame to put it on because I am not Drija. I am fool and full of ignorence, enlightenment is far far away from me. I am a self explorer, i know my self better. later on pauranic people start Karmakanda and Janai has become treadmark of higher caste. They perform different rituals, most of these rituals are worthless and non scientific.
Dhananjaya
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| DHANANJAYA |
Posted
on 13-Sep-03 05:34 PM
Dautari ji,
Ragarding religion, I used to believe on God when I was child and I was taught to believe on it, form family and surrounding. I loved to go to temple and I was advocate of Hinduism, the religion where I was born and grew.
I started to study, then realized that all religions are saying the same thing. we all are saying we are good and only our religion is good, rest religion are false. This is true for Muslims, jews christian buddhists and other religion people. then I satrt of think that all religions are saying the same thing,
do good
leave evil
get mastry over mind
keep mind clean i.e. generate love and compassion.
So I thought god is one but ways are different. people are advocate of thier tradition and religion out of blind faith.
i continue study and experiments then notice that, faith on god if not important. to have faith on god is a type of blind faith, i have not seen him. But what really important is:
1.Be good or leave evil or live wholesome life
2.control the mind or get mastery over mind.
3.purify the mind or cultivate goodwill in the mind
These three things are most important for happy life. these are the summeries. These are really main jist of Dharma. These three are pure Dharma. These three are basic denomination of any religion.
Dhananjaya
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| VincentBodega |
Posted
on 13-Sep-03 07:07 PM
I have a story to tell, a true one. If you get a chance try to get hold of the book. Its called ALIVE and is written by Piers Paul Read. Its a story about survival past all odds and one of the things the survivors had to do was to eat the flesh of their team mates. Equally nerve chilling is the dialogue between the captain and the team members of why it was ok to do so.
Since we are talking about eating a sacred animal, I thought I would try and hone the discussion to a little different scenario. Is cannibalism justified??? ever???
below is the review of the movie Alive based on the book by Piers Paul Read.
******************************************************************
Alive
In October 1972 a plane carrying a Rugby team of 45 from Uraguay to Chile crashes in the Andes. The survivors fend for themselves amidt the cold, in spite of injuries, and with a very limited supply of food. For 72 days they struggle to survive with only 16 actually surviving to be rescued in December.
The movie Alive tells their story for the world to see. It begins with the Rugy Team all upbeat about everything. But then their plane crashes and everything changes. The plane crash scene in the movie was one of the best ever from any movie. The wings and tail of the plane were torn from the body in midair before the plane even hit the ground. From that point the plane slides a good distance through the ice. Once out on the ground most of the survivors of the initial crash are injured in some ways. Some have broken bones and are unable to move. The only real food supply they have on hand is chocolate bars.
The Rugy team's captain becomes a leader of sorts for the survivors. He orchestrates rationing of the chocolate they have and asserts command over the others. After food supplies run out, his team begins to die off starting with the weaker members. AFTER MUCH THOUGHT AND PRAYER THE TEAM'S CAPTAIN CONVINCES THOSE WHO REMAIN THAT CANIBOLIZING THE FLESH OF THEIR DEAD FRIENDS IS THE ONLY WAY THEY WILL BE ABLE TO SURVIVE
Bodies are arranged with their faces in the snow. Those who remain apparently did not want to know just who they were eating. From that position pieces of meat are cut from their bodies to be shared. Icey cold slivers of beef are passed around, and swallowed with great difficulty. A few of the strongest survivors are given the largest portion of the meat so that they can attempt to climb higher up the peak of the mountain to try to reach help and attract attention to airplanes or anything that may be flying over.
In the end there ultimately were survivors of this ordeal as the movie is based on a real world experience with survivors. To many this is the movie where people ate people and nothing more than that. But beyond canibolism the movie features, an incredible plane crash, and a survival of the fittest storyline veiled in prayer and religion that is a true adventure to behold.
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| peda |
Posted
on 14-Sep-03 03:11 AM
I agree with Dhananjaya regarding religions.
From a litttle I have studied, religions are a bit like present day constitutions of various countries. They are made by smart people with a design to rule over masses.
All the religions are same. The fighting between them is a contunuation of age old story of trying to attain superiority over rival groups. In true God's sense, the fighting has no meaning.
There are lots of good things in various religious philosophies. We can take them selectively to make our life happier.
Whether we are happy or not depends on our desires. If one can control his desires, he or she could become happy. Human desires have no boundaries.
For all of above I believe in God, the ultimate truth. I think it is upto the individuals to make effort to feel God.
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| dautari |
Posted
on 14-Sep-03 07:05 PM
This thread is very interesting. Keep it up. I am sorry I am not "learned' enuff up there to make any concrete contributions but I do like reading the postings here.
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| DHANANJAYA |
Posted
on 14-Sep-03 08:25 PM
Dear Danggg Ji,
whatever you eat there is no problem. nothing is sin. just be careful of eating harmful stuffs. that will certainly be sin against you your own. so far you are not harming others and not harming yourself you are following dharma. you don't need to know dharma, follow unknowingly, you will be happy. if you are not following dharma (ie you are doing something which harm yourself or others)either knowingly or unknowingly, I am sure, you will be unhappy. this is law of nature. true for one and all.
vbodega ji,
good point.I also have seen that movie. that advocate Darwinism. that is reality. dharma is the way of happiness. it always comes after full stomach. you can not follow dharma in empty stomach unless you are highly developed in Dharma.dharma always florish in prosporous society. this is aslo a fact.
peda ji,
I agree with you. those people who want fight will fight for anything. religion is also one of them. its the nature of poeple. as soon as they find some contradiction, they start fighting. fighting of different intensities. some fighting are mental (debates), some physical, and some vocal. such fighters can be found in all religious group.
there are wise peoples also in all religious group. they know that there is nothing solid in debates and fighting. real meaning of life is to live happily. so they look for happiness. Those who are extremely wise, look for permanent happiness as you said ultimate truth.
I am glad that you believe on ultimate truth. mere belief does not work. we should move forward to realize it. never believe that some supernormal power will be happy with you because of your beleif and expose itself infront you you. you have to work yourself for your selvation and you have to work yourself for your liberation. for the realization of ultimate truth Rishis, Munis, Tapasis, Bhikshus, utilize their whole life.
Dautari ji,
keep reading.
Dhananjaya
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| peda |
Posted
on 15-Sep-03 08:12 AM
Dhananjaya,
I agree that mere believing does not make any sense, we should aim to achieve the ultimate truth.
Now I have been lost in the vibes of this world until some time ago when I realised that this was not getting me anywhere. I still do not know the best way to achieve this. I do my routine work, to buy my bread and then do a bit of social service. You could possibly tell us the best way to achieve this for people like me.
I am learning to control me desires, partly successfully. I think this is very important to achieve peace with oneself. I still feel a lot of attachment to this world. I know that all of this is transient. I believe in the statement 'anything with a beginning has an end'. I will keep trying to get closer to that truth.
Pls keep writing.
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| DHANANJAYA |
Posted
on 15-Sep-03 04:19 PM
tma ji,
It depends whom you have taken advice form. I person will give advice to you with his understand and capacity. Preserving culture and traditon sounds intersting. We had Sati partha, gift of our tradition. I would not apprecite if somebody said i want to preserve it. We had Nara Bali parth, I would not appreciate either. Now we have Dashain partha, secrificing animals, this will go end soon. I will never appreciate to preserve this. In Shiva Ratri Bhang khane partha, In Holi lola hannne partha, fohar falne partha, I will not appreciate. there are some good parthas that i will love to preserve. Its not bad to go to temple, but never believe that the stone statue of temple or its representative somewhere above the sky, monitering you and will change you for better. That will not happen.
Regarding gayatri mantra, its one of the tool to control mind. its not something mgaic stick that will change you for better as you valvalize once. There are some words which has good frequency like Ohm, rling, kling, fat etc. Rishi of past work with words to control their mind. they discovered different words that fit best for them. Gayatri is one of them. if you concentrate your mind on it while valvalizing and valvalize for singnificantly longer time, i bet, there will be change in you. otherwise not. you are wise and can realize. you can repeate your name instead of the mantra, that will also work. provided, your mind must always on the word what you are valvalizing. somebody, concentrate on breath of their own insted of words. somebody do Tratak, concentrate on light. There are 100 of types of concentration to get mastry over mind. If you have chocklet, very good one, you have to eat it, dont' just show it.
Dear Peda ji,
I am gald of having wise friend like you. You understand the real cause fo misery is desire. Desiere can be controlled and can be destroyed. there is proper way for it. Don't try to do supress your desires. I have walked through this path. Its not a way, its a highway.
here is the link,
www.dhamma.org
you have to do dynamic exercise of mind to eradicate your desiere. Its not easy neither impossible. As much desieres you could ereadicate, that much happiness you will acheive. its long process, you need to have patience.
Dhananjaya
|
| Soleil |
Posted
on 15-Sep-03 05:45 PM
Ashish ji, as fas as I am concerned, the Gayatri Mantra goes something like this:
Om bhurbhuva swa
tatsa bitur bariniyam
bhargo Devashya dhimahi
Dhiyoyona prachodayat
I know it's hard to write these mantras in Romanized Nepali. I tried to pronunciate to the closest. However, Ashish ji's translation is correct.
About the Religion. Let's take a different perspective. Let's begin with the definition of the term "Religion". Oxford Dictionary describes it as:
1. the belief in a superhuman controlling power, esp. in a personal God or gods entitled to obedience and worship
2. the expression of this in worship
3. a particular system of faith and worship
4. life under monastic vows ( the way of religion)
5. a thing that one is devoted to (football is their religion)
Now, was it God or the superhuman controlling power or the supernatural controlling power or whatever you want to name it, that gave us religion? If God created the Universe, and if God created the humans, there should have been one Religion. I do not know what that Ism might be. I say its Humans who created God. Thus, we have different religions. And, we have different system of faith and worship and different ways to express this worship. Why would we, as people in whole from different ethnic and cultural background say ours is the best religion? Why do we force upon others to quit their beliefs and follow us? And do we really believe ours is the best and it is transcendental, directly from above or by the God himself? Why do we get so fundamental at times and kill in the name of others? And not being religious or not having faith in God really makes you an Atheist?
The purpose of the religion was to give humans a guideline, a milestone. To do something, to become aware, and to be something. Basically, a procedure guidelines it is. Just like the programming languages for the computer in order to compute the functions. One may work best with certain platforms, softwares and applications; and another language may not be compatible. That doesn't mean one language is inferior to another, and vice versa. There are newer versions, updates, patches, etc., with the time demand for them to be functioning correctly. And, they are not foul proof. They have virus that mess up the system.
The same principle can be implied to religion itself. It is not God given, it is not a prophecy. Rather a simple philosophy of knowledge; of wisdom; of spiritualism for ones mind, body and soul; and a quest to understand things, passed by our forefathers upon us. And over the time, though some of us may find it hard to admit, it has been changing ever since, and it will continue changing with the time. No one will go to hell for eating cow or pork, nor they will go to heaven worshipping a cow. Even Buddha admitted that one has to be full stomach to achieve Nirvana. Though he supported "Ahimsa", he didn't prohibit his deciple from eating the swan, as long as he doesn't kill it. See the philosophy?(Let me not dwell into philosophy here). It's all about your perception, and nothing else. The bottom line, use your beliefs (religion) as your guidelines. You do not have to agree with it 100% if your instinct says, otherwise. Just try to make the best you can. Be Good Do Good, and you will be served with Good.
Peace!!!
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| Soleil |
Posted
on 15-Sep-03 05:48 PM
Correction: pls read ..."kill in the name of religion..."
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| SimpleGal |
Posted
on 15-Sep-03 06:22 PM
Haina, yesto dharmic thread ma hamro afnai Trikal guru maharaj ko vishesh tippani dekhdina ni ma? Harey, bholi gaera tyo health center ko jhoor-jhampataram daactar lai ankha dekhauna janu paryo....asti dieko prescription daactar saab jastai jhoor-patyas rahechha kyare....Trikal darshi jyu, eta palnu paryo! Hinduism ko ke bhawishya chha huh? Bhandina paryo hajur!
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| pancho |
Posted
on 15-Sep-03 06:44 PM
just testing, will be back
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| Soleil |
Posted
on 15-Sep-03 07:48 PM
Simpy jyu, how is them simple peopal miss them birader trikal? Him birader trikal is inherent, throughout in them thread. Catch him if you is can. :)
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| SelfExplorer |
Posted
on 17-Sep-03 06:21 AM
My religion is to learn or research more and more about how to bring blissful state in me. I am the cause of all my joys and sorrows.
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| DHANANJAYA |
Posted
on 17-Sep-03 09:20 PM
Soleil Ji,
Very good one. You are right about religions. religions are kind of constitutions which are made by the wise people of different ethenic groups to make people better. But Dharma is different. this is unfortune that Dharma word is translated as religion in english. But Dharma means, nature. for example: Aago ko dharma jalaunu ho. see, isn't the world is still contain the meaning? And this Dharma is not the rules and constitution made my the people of society. It is the science discovered by Rishis. Rishi= Rit+yeshak, meaning who explore the rit, nature. Rishis, Munis, Buddhas discovered the laws of nature and utilize themselves for their better and taught to man kind for their better out of compassion. this is same as a scientist discovered something law of matter and gives to the society for their easy livig. Dharma looks for happiness but science looks for comfort. They are similar. so you are right about religion.
Regarding Buddha, he always taught Ahimsha. He was perfect teacher so he did not teach idealism. What idealism is? idealism is theory which generalizes everybody. Buddha knew that everybody can never be generalised. each individual is complete entiety and completely different from any other. He knew he could not teach everybody so what he said is, Bahujana Hitaya, meaning for welfair of many. He did not said Sarbajana Hitaya, for welfair of everybody. He was extreamely wise person, he knew, everybody can not understand his teaching. You are wise, I am sure, you will accept this. If a professor teach something, does every students understand equally? No. Same. How all people can understand Dharma? How can all people be intersted in Dharma? How can he change the social system? How can he convert people to vegitarian? Whoever came in his contact, he taught Ahimsha. he asked them to abandon killing and generate love and compassion for all beings. How can all people of society listen to a simple monk and follow it. Now he is superhuman because we have been hearing him since childhood, but then he was just a monk. there were so many monks like him at that time.
If he would have said to monks don't eat meat, they had to be hungry someday, because most of the householders were non veg. empty stomatch can not understand dharma. So, he said, whatever householders gave, they should accept. I think that is meaningful. But he did not eat that meat which was especially secrificed for him. He had never became the cause of killing. Rather than this he had never destroyed seeds aslo. Neither, his disciples could do that. He taught, whoever wants peace, should leave the secrifice. But he did not compail anyone to do so. He was disciplaned democratic person. The point that you made seems weakness of Buddha but it is not.
Devadatta made this (making all Sangha vegitarian) main agenda n broke the Sangha. It did not work out. So far your mind is clean, eat anything good for your body, no problem. Isn't this seems scientific?
Good point.
Ashish Ji,
Sati partha was eradicated by British from India and they ordered Ranas to eradicate form Nepal. Thanx to them. If they did not have done this, it would still be with us as ChuwaChut is. You would find someone who will be advocating this system giving some horroble reasons, like example of Satyawan-Sabitri, shiva-parbhati. NarBali was also eradicated by them.If not, that would also be as residue and you woudl have found some people supporting it. Since it has completely abandoned by society thats why no one are supporting it.
You can find many people in nepal supporting secrifice in Dashain. Trust me, one day society will be wiser and leave secrifice. the new generation will see dashain as you are seeing Satipartha. ChuwaChut was eradicated in 2022, now its 2060, more than 50% people are observing this. Do you like to preserve this tradition? Do you like to preserve Dahej partha of Tarai? Do you like to preserve Lola and Mud partha in Holy? Do you like to preserve Juwa n Tas partha in Dashain and tihar? Do you want to perserve Rakshi, jad, vang, partha in all especial occession? Do you want to preserve vang dhuturo partha in Shiva ratri? How many kuparthas can i count for you. There are some good Parthas also. Please write me down the name of Parthas that you want to preserve.
I am writing for sharing knowlede with friends. May this bring only positive feeling in the heart of all. I will apologize, if I heart somebody unknowingly.
Dhananjaya
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| DHANANJAYA |
Posted
on 17-Sep-03 09:26 PM
SelfExplorer,
Same here. You are wise. Just practice to eradicate your mental defilements that will bring peace. practice is main, rest is just to encourage practice.
good one.
Dhananjaya
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| KaleKrishna |
Posted
on 17-Sep-03 09:58 PM
Dear Dhananjaya, well well, your thought provoking insights on self realization is worth praise.
However, your categorization of distorted facts linked with religion and culture and their modern day practice needs to be viewed seperately. The evils that have cropped up in our religious and cultural practices are malises however, they should not be the cause to uproot the whole tree rather then prun the diseased branches.
As you have rightly mentioned, it is time we need to rethink " whether it is the adoption of a bad culture and religion or the bad adoption of a good one that is causing the misery"
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| DHANANJAYA |
Posted
on 18-Sep-03 04:26 PM
KK ji,genius arguement.
Actually we have no arguement. I am also talking about renuvation of society and culture not reformation of society and culture. There are so many dirty practices in the society by the name of religion. We should know the real meaning of it. Let me expalin the Vijaya Dashain. Vijaya Dashain is the practice of Chandi Saptasati. I have read this since was a child. Since our kuldevi was Kali so that was our tradition. I learned Kilak, Argala, Kawach, Pratham Addhya, Pancham Addhya and Ekadasha Addhya by heart. I used to sing these Sanskrit Mantras with close eyes. I thought Goddess Durga above the cloud (heaven) will be noticing it and will give me something excellent. Most of the people whosoever celebrate Dashain have this feeling. They believe on somebody they have never seen and they neither think of wheter the beleif that they have in their mind is ture or not. Its true because our tradition says so. Its true because our holy Chandi Saptasati says so. See how ignorence people we have. How about if we make them think, when Saptasati Chandi were composed? Was that the true sroty or it has some symbolic meaning? Is that meaning reasonable? Is this meaning that we are pretending of Chandi is reasonable? I want that culture. I want them to think about reality. Human beings are called MANU PUTTRA, son of mind. But in our culture mind is in vacation. I don't want the culture to end, as Maoist are doing. I want to reshuffel the culture. and I want the people of our society to be real Manu Puttra. I want the explorer society. explore everything and find out is that good for you and society or not. If good, accept it if not reject it. complete scientific culture.
I know complete story of Chandi. Mahisasur was killed by Durga. In real life, Mahish means Buffelo. Kill the buffelo. Kill it, because our Goddess will happy. Many innocent buffelos are being killed. Very wise people supporting this tradition. King and his prists and all members of Rajsavaparisad. All are well educated and BIG poeple of country. They do. Meaning was not this. This Saptasati is one of the latest Pauranic tale. It was composed around 13/14th century AD. In this book Dharma message is given through story. I will explain is short and summery.
Very ugly looking woman Kali killed the evils like Chanda, Munda and their warriers and turned to be a beautiful Durga. Chanda, Munda are nothing but Raga(creving) and Dwesha(Aversion). These two are cause of negativities. Other negativites are just derivatives of Raja and Dwesha. She killed craving and aversion and all other negativaties that were making her ugly and turned to Durga, a beautiful lady. To eradicate the craving and aversion and their armies is really arduous job, Durgam job. Since she did such Durgam work she is called Durga. Our ansisters had already discovered that Raja and Dwesha are cause of Dukkha. they are commander in chief of negativities. Scruptures are full of "Raga Dwesha Viyouktaistu", be free from Raga and Dwesha. They sent this message through story. They mean to kill all the evils that are in your mind, not evil outside. Does that make sense? for me it makes sense. Mahisasur was ego. Most powerful enamy. kill mahisasur means kill the ego. Set your mind free from ego and get happiness.
Instead of killing our ego, we are killing innocent animal. How much pain the ego gives us we never notice. if somebody said you are a bad person, ego is attacked, it will give big pain. if your friend is better than you, ego is striked, it will hurt. You never think of killing that enamy which is big trouble for you. you never notice it because there is no such tration to explore the reason of events and happenings. i want that tradition.
You kill Boka in Dashin. Ask reason, many don't know. A wise person told me it is a symbol of Kamukata (sex). Good reason. I have noticed, Hegot is really Kamuk. In a temple there were more than 30 hegots. Sankalpa was going on, prists were doing their job. Some goats were being secrificed. some were trying to make love with other hegoats. Surprising, death is there. Friends are being killed infront of them. No fear. I have noticed myself. How Kamuk? The Kamukta is more than the fear, so Kamukta is exposed, fear remains subsided.
Ture. its a one of the most Kamuk animal. It does not mean that if you kill such kamuk animal, you will get victory over your kamukta. somebody wise people asked to eradicate kamukta for peace of mind. kamukta gives restlessness. what we are doing? we are doing just non sense job. Apply meditation techniques to eradicate Kamukta and get mental peace.How can you be benifated killing innocent goat.
i want such society which will go to the roots and find the germs that are making tree yellowish, that are causing tree to die. I want those germs be killed and the tree will be green again. The medicine of germ is WISDOM. i want such culture where people look for the reason of events and happenings.
Dhananjaya
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| sewak |
Posted
on 18-Sep-03 04:43 PM
Dhananji:
After enlightenment, Buddha was so excited about preaching what he discovered. But Buddha realizes that nobody understood what he wanted to teach at first. Later on at right timing, when Buddha turned the wheel of dharma at Deer Park to his followers, Gods were listening also to his teaching. So are demigod and other deities.
Reason Buddha told everyone to be compassionate is because of Karma. It is said that your closest one ( father, mother, brothers, uncles, etc) were the worst enemy is previous life. Understanding that unless you enlighten in this life, you wil take some other form because of Karma, Buddha told everyone to be kind to others. And Buddha said, "To understand what you were in the past, look at your present situation. To understand what you will be in the future, look at your present action. If you dont show love, compassion and respect others, others will do same to you."
IN SHORT, WHAT GOES AROUND...COMES AROUND.
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| DHANANJAYA |
Posted
on 19-Sep-03 03:10 PM
Great Sewak Ji,
That is true. Siddartha was followed by five bhikkus (who were highly learned astrologist Brahmans in their house hold life. From their astrology they found that Siddartha would find the way of the end of suffering) as a shadow. After six years when Siddartha left to torcher his body they abondoned him and went to Baranashi. Siddartha, got enlightoned that very night and becomes Buddha. He spent seven weeks in continuous meditation. Then came back to the earth. A thought arised in his mind, he would serve the person who had enlightened before him. He found he was one and only one enlightened at that time. Then, he thought, the people of the world had very defiled mind, the meditation (Vipassana) that he rediscovered is so subtal that they would not understand it. So he dicided to go to Himalaya n spent his rest life. It is said that, Sahampati Brahma came and requested him to teach. He(Brahma) motivated him saying that there are few people whose mind had thin layer of ignorence, like a net of spider. Buddha realized that and dicided to teach. He taught to those his five friends first, in Deer park, Vanarahsi.
What this story teaches us? This story teaches us that not all poeple of the world will be intersted in Dharma. People have different layers of mental defilements. Those who have very deep level of mental defilements, have no time to think other than their mundane life. lucky are those who think about themselves and their welfare. Real welfare is in cleaning the mind. Buddha gave the technique, thats all. We have to utilize that technique to clean our mind. Buddha has given the detergent, we have to use that detergent to clean up our mind. If we just talk about the Buddha and his teaching and don't practice, we are wasting time.
Compassion is the state of mind. It comes automatically when mind get cleaned. When defilements are get eradicated, compassion is there. You will cry out of love and compassion as your mind is cleaned up.
Regarding father mother enamy of the past. Its not so. Father and mother are always respected and they are real Devatas. One must be respectful to elders. this is Buddhas teaching and this makes sense.
I have read more than five hundred past lives of Gautam Buddha. In most of his past lives, Mahamaya and Suddhodana were parents. he indicated to one old Brahman, who said him(Buddha) son in his first sight, and start to behave as Buddhas real father. Then, Bhikkhus asked the reason. Buddha said, the old Brahman had been his father for 500 lives, grand father sometime uncle, sometime relative for more tha 1500 lives. So in his subconsious mind is connected to his subconsious mind and recognized it. Siddartha was father of Rahul in his many past lives. This conclude that what you said may not be true. But this is all i am saying you just believing on Jatakas, which is one of the main Grantha of Sutta Pitaka.
In one life, his name was Dharmapal, his father was Devadatta. Devadatta killed him (his own son)while he was small baby. This story only matches what you have said, father mother and relatives are enamy of past. But I am not ready to believe this. Buttha had not taught this. Since father and mother and relatives have become barrier of renounciation, some monks some monks said that they have become the barrier of realizing the truth. That is exageration of that reality, I guess. It makes sense isn't it?
Dhananjaya
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| DHANANJAYA |
Posted
on 19-Sep-03 03:25 PM
last sentences of your posting are intersting Sewak Ji. Buddha taught 45 years and every single word he spoke was remain in present. Present is the reality. Present is the truth, stick with reality and stick with the truth then only you can realize ultimate truth. He was the teacher of ultimate truth and wanted this students practice. He said, word, Athavuta, means as it is. See the truth as it is. As it is happens only in this moment.
I also have realized this present moment is the father of future and present consiquenses are due to past action. I agree with Buddha with my own realization.
Of course yes, if you give love you will find more love back. If you are compassionate, you will fing the compassion back. If you showed anger to someone, you will find anger back. Anybody can realize this or can understand intellectually.
Sewak ji, we must work hard to cultivate compassion and love in our mind. Its not gonna come in free. Buddha has shown the path to cultivate compassion so we must walk on it. No alternative other than practice.
I really appreciate you.
Dhananjaya
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| Trikal |
Posted
on 19-Sep-03 03:37 PM
Be happy!
For you are joy, unbounded joy.
You are awareness itself.
Just as a coil of rope
Is mistaken for a snake,
So you are mistaken for the world.
-Unknown-
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| DHANANJAYA |
Posted
on 19-Sep-03 04:00 PM
Very intristing trikal,
very surprising indeed!
How can i be the joyful,
if I did some wrong deed?
won't i regreet inside,
Will that be the peace?
Very intersting trikal,
very surprising indeed!
who realize the awireness,
if I am the heed?
Very intersting Trikal,
very true indeed.
Everything is deceiving,
we are like a kid.
good one Trikal Ji
Dhananjaya
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| Trikal |
Posted
on 20-Sep-03 12:17 PM
Dhananjaya,
Hope for the Guest while you are alive.
Jump into experience while you are alive!
Think...and think... while you are alive.
If you don't break your ropes while you're alive,
do you think your
ghosts will do it after?
The ida that the soul will join with the ecstatic
just because the body is rotten --
that is all fantasy.
What is found now is found then.
If you find nothing now,
you will simply end up with an apartment in the City
of your own Death.
If you make love with the divine now, in the next life
you will have the face of satisfied desire.
So plunge into the truth, find out who the Teacher is,
Believe in the Great Sound!
Unknown_
Don't regret yourself what you have done
Dance with the spritiual reathm and have a fun !!
Trikal...........
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| DHANANJAYA |
Posted
on 20-Sep-03 07:28 PM
Dear Trikal Ji,
I am really enjoying having conversation with wise friend like you through sajha.Please dont' take that there is debate or arguement between us (Since I am answering in poem, so it may give wrong feeling). Between us there is love and only love, a pure love , compassionate love. We are sharing our knowledge and understanding. I never post for ego, I post for love partially pure and partially impure, but for good intension.
One has to be good to others, to have a guest.
experience brings wisdom, mundane are the rest.
Think for better, think for progress, that thinking is best.
Do everything now and this life.
Don't live good will even for survive.
Who knows what will happen after demise.
One who is good here, can hope for better in next life, if there is a next life.
Dude, for us, truth is this life.
Lets try to know oneself, before getting ripe.
Indeed! that is fantacy or an unknown truth.
lets not tangle on such theory, lets hold present truth.
If we are good and humble,
Devine is within us.
Happy life is devine life,
evil life is gross.
Mistake bounds us suffer (regret) somehow,
this is law of nature.
this law can be overcomed by,
only wise and mature.
Trikal, are these words yours?
I smelt Osho, but not for sure.
very good one trikal ji,
Dhananjaya
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| Soleil |
Posted
on 09-Oct-03 08:14 PM
Balla po phursad paayen, ani aru nai ke ke gardai thiyen, yeta tira ko philosophy ta bhusukkai birsechhu. Aaja arkai euta thread ko khoji garda fortunately feri aayi pugen. Ani baanki sabai posting haru padhe.
Ramailo lagyo gyan gunn ka kura haru sunera. Ani ali dukkha lagyo Dananjaya jyu sita. Not that he argued and commented on me, rather to my writings and shed more light especially on teachings of Buddha. I wouldn't say it is his inability to apprehend the semantics I used, for my statement was ambiguous. I do not have any problem with it. And, I agree with you Dhananjaya ji, on Buddha and his teachings. But, I was not trying to show Buddha's weaknessess in my statement. I used it as a rhetorical lampoon, to those who believe cow is a sacred animal and shouldn't be eaten, but goat is allowed to be sacrifice in the name of God, and be eaten, etc. etc., as someone had mentioned somewhere earlier in the thread. I know you would understand.
Ahile lai yetti...arko bhet samma lai Hasta la vita baybay!!! heheh
Peace!!!!!
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