| Username |
Post |
| zero gravity |
Posted
on 11-Sep-03 09:36 PM
As Narahari Acharya has revealed to the public, the Palace has asked that two demands be removed from the 18-point list of the agitating parties - limitation of royal titles to king, queen and crown prince only; and civil control of RNA. A few comments -
1) Clearly if the Palace made only these two demands, then what we observe is that the Palace cares first and foremost about itself and the RNA through which it projects and exerts its power. The 'janata', the 'nation' is secondary.
2) This is further evidence that RNA is not the Royal Nepal Army but the Royal Nepal's Army, the king's army and its main and ultimate duty is the preservation of the Shah dynasty, not the nation.
3) The monarchy is a system that rules, not a mere symbol. Hence, for a system to rule, not only do you need the King but royal titles to legtimate rule by the royal family at large. Thus, limiting royal title to only the king, queen and crown prince is in effect a reduction of royal power and hence does not come as a surprise that the Palace is not willing to reduce the number of titleholders.
4) The Army is fully of Ranas at the top. The Palace's demands further highlights the Rana/Shah nexus which has controlled and wants to preserve their hold through the family ties (inter-marriages) and the RNA.
I hope this further convinces all Sajhaites that monarchy in Nepal is trying to exert more influence in the polity and it is a force that is anti-democratic and concerned with its own preservation and proliferation.
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| bold |
Posted
on 11-Sep-03 11:31 PM
hi zero ji,
what do you think can nepali can handle that power? we have a politician like girja ji,madhav ji,krishaji ,gachadar ji other etc all ex minister and pms who are always fighting for power and chair can handle RNA,i don't think they can handle that,so i think it is better with king then those guys,if RNA is with those neta RNA will be just like thats netaji haru after power and chairand of course MONEY
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| GP |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 08:46 AM
The royal nepal army should not be under the control of PM, and it
should be under third party may be its King or President. Looking
at the history of las 13 years, I wonder whether RNA willl be
magi khane bhado of PM and his chaukidars.
FYI, I have recently come to know that promoting sub-inspector
to inspector position, Govinda Raj Joshi and Khume plus their
hench men used to collect 1 million rupees. I am not joking,
it was told be close to those persons. If you think this mechanism
of collecting money in RNA what will happen. .....
So, let RNA be under King or President .... but, not under PM.
GP
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| mustange |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 09:13 AM
Yes I agree with GP ji. 10 years back I used to think like other republicans. But now, I am thinking what would happen to Nepal if Girija was president of Nepal. What will govinda raj joshi, khume or Makune will do if they become president and get full control over army ? Looks like Nepalese politics is heading towards dead end.
Mustange
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 01:20 PM
Mustange,
Rather than theorizing about how it would look if the army were to be under the control of likes of Khum Bahadur or Bamdev, let's put it this way: how the army is faring now under the control of likes of Paras and ex-CNC Prajwol Shamsher.
Now, I know a friend of mine who paid in middle five digits to a Rana general to get an opportunity to work in UNIFIL, Yugoslavia long ago. And unless you are born to a noble family, it is not likely that you are going to be accepted in officer level of RNA.
No one is talking about placing army under Khum Bdr/ Govinda/Girija. We are talking about placing army under the control of popularly elected government. The army will have the president of the state as a symbolic head. Before mobilizing the army, there will be thousands of other procedures. In democracy, there will be different power centers, and one power center neutralizes another, so there will be less likelihood of arbitrary exercise of power. Just look at America, Bush sent his men to Iraq and other countries, but now he has to ask for $87billion to foot the bill. If senate rejects that, Bush will have to bring his men back home.
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| Shiva Shiva!! |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 01:55 PM
Biswo, I don't think we can compare Nepalese Army to American Army. We don't have the political culture that America has.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 02:07 PM
Shiva,
True, we can't compare in a lot of fields. I am not comparing at all. I am talking about how to have a check and balance system in army.
The enduring military powers of history all have some sort of check and balances: Romans had their senators deciding the fate of military, the British used to have their lords/commons controlling where the military expeditions should be sent, and the USA has the same system.
In fact, even Nepal's history has similar examples. How come our 'unification' be successful when we were ruled by more inclusive Bahadur Shah and Prithvi Shah, and how come our unification came to a grinding halt when we were ruled by Bhimsen Thapa who had finished off all his opponents in 1860 (during Damodar Pande killing) and in 1863 (when he massacred all the sagacious bhardars who didn't agree with him in the aftermath of the killing of Rana Bahadur Shah). It all comes to a conclusion: army needs judicious control, with ample of check and balance.
King Gyanendra's proposal to the parties is therefore wrong, selfish, and it only shows what he cares most.
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| mustange |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 06:55 PM
Biswo,
>No one is talking about placing army under Khum Bdr/ Govinda/Girija. We are talking about placing army under the control of popularly elected government>
1. Do the goverments headed by Girija, Sher Bdr. Deupa and even Surya Bdr. Thapa (last one not now) fall into your popularly elected goverment ? Do you know if they were popularly elected goverment ? or you have your own definition for "popularly elected goverment" ? were they (hum bdr/ Govind and girija....) not elected ?
>I know a friend of mine who paid in middle five digits to a Rana general to get an opportunity to work in UNIFIL, Yugoslavia long ago>
1. Who is the culprit you think here only Rana general or your friend too....who paid money to snatch opportunity from another poor fellow who can not pay money ? If nobody pays money, to whom will they send to UNIFIL. or Yugoslavia. (for your kind information the UN force in the Yugoslavia is not UNIFIL).?..or Rana general himself will go in the field with gun ?
>And unless you are born to a noble family, it is not likely that you are going to be accepted in officer level of RNA>
Have you seen the list of officer cadet accepted in RNA every year ? If yes how many % of rana and shah are there and how many % others ? If not, then I must say Shuuut uuuup.
Biswo Ji, It would be very nice if you calculate little bit what you are going to write before writing, anyway if you can have such habit it will help you to have a nice thesis in near future.
Mustange
NOT WANNA BE ONE AND ONLY ONE
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 07:26 PM
Mustange,
Do I have to calculate?
Let me give you an example of two of my classmates of Nepal Highschool (that is the name of my highschool in Tandi), of my own batch, who tried to get into RNA. One had better physical structure, had first division in SLC, and B.Sc., and had no relative in higher position in army. Another was thin, lagged in education, but his uncle was a highly ranked officer. They both tried for the job of second lieutinent same year.
The one with better grade failed.
The one with lesser grade passed.
We got clue, everyone in our school got clue.
If you need more hint, look at the names of CNC, and you do your own analysis. Don't try to say others 'shut up'.
--
As for being my friend a culprit,yes, I agree that. But don't tell another 'innocent' guy would have gone to UNIFIL also. It would have been another one who would have paid in stead of my friend.
--
And yes, popularly elected government means that of Girija's, and of all those who got the PM post in the 2047-58. But that doesn't include those made by Gyanendra's direct niyukti. I hope I am making myself clear.
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| Kumar Prasad Upadhyay |
Posted
on 12-Sep-03 10:03 PM
Biswo ji:
Just to make sure we know where we stand now in terms of the constitutional-legal provisions related to the operation and control of the Royal Nepal Army.
I invite all participants on this thread to get back to your copies of the constitution and take some time to read Articles 118 and 119. Two of the most pertinent provisions on this issue are these:
a) His Majesty shall operate and use the RNA on the recommendation of the National Defence Council (comprising of the Prime Minister, the Defence Minister and the C-in-C).
b)His Majesty shall appoint the C-in-C of the RNA on the recommendation of the Prime Minister.
We have been hearing of the five-party demand to "bring the Army under the control of the Parliament" for quite some time now. In a Prime Ministerial system like ours, if the leader of the House and his defence minister already control the decision-making process (because they have a majority in the NDC, assuming the C-in-C does not agree), isn't the operation of the RNA already under the control of the parliemant?
In what way is the provision going to be different, Biswoji, if you were to have your way? What would you write in the constitution?
You raised a good point about the checks and balances with regards to the operation of the army, and the point about the Congress in the US having the power to block expenses was a pertinent one.
But I have a question: Doesn't the parliemant in Nepal have similar powers to increase, decrease or block proposals for budgetary allocation by the government for the Army, or for that matter any other state institution? Of course, things are different since Sher Bahadur Deuba dissolved the House last year, and we are running the country through ordinances, but as a matter of constitutional provision the parliemant in Nepal too has the check of the kind that you identify in case of the US Senate. Had any of the governments in the post-1990 era wanted to decrease the budget of the Army, they could have.
KPU
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| peda |
Posted
on 13-Sep-03 03:08 AM
All the problems stem from the fact that most human beings are selfish- that includes our king, politicians, the so called Maoists.
Our constitution was not bad. In-fact most constitutions look good on paper. It is the implementation part which is at fault.
No constitution wil say that bribery is good. But to everyone's awareness, it was rampant particularly in the last 10 yrs in Nepal.
It is no surprise that the king is selfish and he wants to have a secure future with a power base. However compared to other politicians, he stands to lose more if our country goes through worse turmoil. A lot of our leaders could happily dissipate in India as they did in the Panchayat era. King would lose more. Of-course it is the general public who would suffer the most.
In the prevailing circumstance, what would you do if you were King Gyanendra?
Considering the fact that the Maoists are hell bent on getting their way, I do not think there would be a political solution. So the King would be reluctant to let the rein of army slip away from him.
I regard Maoists war as a power struggle. Prachanda, Baburam and co are exploting the prevailing frustration in the public to gain a foothold in the pewer struggle.They are no saints, as we know they happily loot public money in the name of people's war and if they come to power, the situationa and corruption would probably get worse. Their justice would come from the barrel of gun.
Our politicians are greedy lot. As we have seen time and again, the moment the primeministerial post come for grabbing, the squabble starts.
So what choice do we Nepalese have?
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 13-Sep-03 05:20 PM
Kumarji,
You are right in the sense that the constitution doesn't allow king to do things arbitrarily. It also mandates that the government allocate budget to the army. Alas, things end right there. For example, who is to exercise check and balance once the House of representative is dissolved, and the king illegitimately dismisses whoever the prime minister is in Singh Durbar.
How would I write the constitution? Frankly, I think since the army refused to budge when elected government wanted it to be mobilized, the best thing for the nation is to get rid of the king and his cronies running the military rightnow. It has been proven again and again that the king is 'the' hinderance to the democracy and as long as he holds any symbolic control over army, he is going to use it to scrounge away more money from national coffer. Recent proposal from royal palace is just the confirmation of what the palace thinks: it thinks its power stems from its grab on army, not from its popularity.
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| Garibjanata |
Posted
on 13-Sep-03 09:34 PM
What happens if the military itself decides to get rid of Gyanendra?
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| suva chintak |
Posted
on 13-Sep-03 10:00 PM
Well, Sir,
If that did come to pass, we sure wouldn't be wasting any tears, would we?
SC, the late night political pundit!
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| nepalipanda |
Posted
on 14-Sep-03 12:04 AM
Friends:
Nepal is approaching very fast in becoming a failed state. It is no time to point any finger. Everyone has made mistakes. This is not about Girija versus the King. Girija ousted Bhattarai, and Deuba ousted Girija. It is all about power. Girija instead of letting Bhattarai settle, spent time plotting a coup. UML's Makune did not let Girija do anything and was ousted by Deuba. The minute Deuba arrived at the airport from a successful trip to DC, Girija could not tolerate the lime light and became Deuba's nightmare. So when you have 13 PM in 13 years, how could you solve poverty, corruption, socio-economic, and the Maoists problems?
Prchanda just announced he has seven brigades and almost 100,000 force. The govt. has issues security alert that it cannot protect its leadership outside the ringroad. The seven memebr family's posters are plastered in the neighborhood as a warning. People are terrified.
I just got off the phone with my family and they are terrified and disgusted with the establishment ---the King and the political leadership. They want peace and security. They want the gvt either to go all out and fight the bastards and defeat them with the help of the Indian gvt and the US or make some compromisev and get on with lives. They are scared. Elections are the last thing they have on their minds. I even reminded them about democracy and liberty. They asked me to shove it up my ---. They think the leadership people are all about power and greed, and they all have f----- up the situation.
It does not make sense to fight among ourselves --those who support RNA and those who are against. Some diplomats even have urged the current leaderships (King and the parties) to patch up and fight the Maoists.
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| Garibjanata |
Posted
on 14-Sep-03 11:57 AM
But Nepalipanda (Habre hola ni),
But who are these Maoists who are causing so much of mayhem in our 'peace luving 'country? Aren' they our poor Nepali brethren?
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| nepalipanda |
Posted
on 14-Sep-03 01:28 PM
Garibjanta:
Good point, but these terrorized and killed Nepalis are Nepalis too.
KATHMANDU, Sept 14 A family of seven people, who were threatened with their lives if they did not leave their village in Banke district, has fled to undisclosed location.
Maoists murdered two civilians Narainapur village in Banke Friday police said. The dead bodies of Jatuna Pathan and Panuta khan were found Saturday.
We must find a solution, we must try a midel road to the extent possible.
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| suva chintak |
Posted
on 14-Sep-03 02:00 PM
Come on friends, be real here!
Being a garib is no excuse for initiating a reign of terror and massacre!
So are we arguing that poor people have the god/mao given right to slaughter other poor people? What kind of humane, democratic, or political logic is that?
Is killing other poor people going to make the Maoist rich?
It is no sin to be garib, but that is no license to be a total harif!!
Besides, I doubt whether these 'garib brethern' are any poorer than any othe Nepali.
BRB and Prachanda and a host of other Maoist leaders have their sons and daughters studying in expensive foreign colleges and schools...tell me, how poor is that?
After looting all those banks and extorting billions of rupees, I am not willing to believe that the Maoists are 'garib.'
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| Qallu |
Posted
on 14-Sep-03 08:39 PM
Suva Chintak, so correct!
BRB and his gang of murderers have the money now to be better equipped, better trained, and probably better fed than the Army. They have money to start FM radios supposedly and there are stories of how the "Maoists" are supplying the ill gotten wealth to their relatives in villages and towns across the country to build up their cementi and tin ko ghar and terrorize the chimekis with threat of violence.
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| Garibjanata |
Posted
on 15-Sep-03 01:10 PM
Qallu mamma,
When the Rana, Shahs, their lackeys, lackey's lackeys, lackey's lackey's lackeys and so on and the corrupt politicians, their kiths and kins, their hanger ons, their hanger ons' hanger ons looted this nation and created palaces u my Quallu mamma had no problem but when a poor makes a tin-roofed house it is unbearable to you.Qallu mamma, I wanna ask u, is there anywhere written that the poor should always live in a thatched hovel with its walls spashed with cow dung???????????
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| sewak |
Posted
on 15-Sep-03 03:24 PM
I agree with all here. Present political leaders are nothing but pain in the as-s. There is nothing positive they have done. After ruining livesof every Nepali other than their own circles in the past 12 yrs, they want to dig on further more. In the name of people and freedom is what they are chanting the old mantra.
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| Qallu |
Posted
on 15-Sep-03 05:18 PM
Oh so now the logic is that two wrongs make a right? Kya cha hamro "garibjanta" ko logic! wah wah!
Did you hear me saying the raja ko hanger ons and ons and ons wherewere right in lookting the garib to make sheesh mahals? Better read what little I have said here carefully become jumping to conclusions GJ. And please, refrain from calling me "mamma." I find your attempt at saino joding revolting.
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| nepalipanda |
Posted
on 15-Sep-03 07:45 PM
KATHMANDU UNDER SEIGE
MINISTERS ARE RUNNING AWAY INSIDE THEIR COMPOUND
THEY CAN'T GO OUTSIDE THE RING ROAD
THE MAOISTS OPENLY CLAIM TO HAVE MURDERED CIVILIANS
POLITICIANS STILL ARE SILENT AND DO NOT DARE TO CONDEMN THEM
TERROR AND FEAR GRIP THE NATION
THE TAKEOVER IS RAGING AND THE IDIOTS ARE STILL FIGHTING FO POWER
!!!!WAKE UP!!!!
PRACHAND WITH HIS 100,000 GURILLAS HAS FORCED THE GVT TO RETREAT INSIDE THE TINY RING ROAD.
WHAT A SHAME
ONLY HOUSE THAT WILL BE REVIVED WILL BE THE ONE BY PRACHAND--- SLAMMER HOUSE, WHERE ALL THE TOP LEADERS WILL BE HOUSED, IF THEY ARE LUCKY.
WAKE UPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
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