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| Gokul | Posted
on 12-Sep-03 09:16 AM
General theory of life What is a general theory? A general theory tries to present a unifed principle that can tie together seemingly unrelated fragments of facts and incidents and by doing so, helps us to discern beyond superficial appearances. What is a general theory of life? A general theory of life unifies diverse issues such as culture, religion, politics, economics, anthropology, biology etc. that directly affect how we live and perceive life. Why we need it? I have seen many fragmented discussions such as "Caste system in Hinduism", "Republicanism vs. monarchy", "Hinduism vs. Christianity or other religion", "To eat or not to eat beef", "Elite vs. ordinary" that discuss some incidents and anecdotes but fail to adress why these things are the way they are and what we can do. What approach will be taken in developing this theory? One important aspect of the Internet forum such as Sajha is that it allows millions to collaborate, communicate and develop a consensus in a real-time manner. While I do not claim to be an expert in this field (general theory), I certainly do a have deep interest in this field which is the primary motivation to me for undertaking this task. This attempt should not be construed as an insinuation of one's fine intellect and elevated tastes (if there is any). On the contrary, I hope to learn by presenting my views and observing how fallacious they are by taking into account others' evidences and arguments. This dialectic aproach has been used by our sages and in recent times by Hegel. It will be our modus operandi. While we all have heard the well-known Darwinian phrase "Survival of the fittest", we may not have realized that it, in fact, does summarize the general theory of life and I hope to discuss it in this context in the coming days. Today, I will just show how it is possible to link it with different branches of philosophy. I posit that the goal of a life (whether microbes or human) is to survive by being fit. Optimization, knowledge, efficiency, and adaptivity are some indicators of fitness. Culture, religion, politics are all atrifacts designed to achieve this goal. Since knowledge is an essential component in this framework, a relevant question would be: where does knowlede come from (epistemology), and how do we make sure that the knowledge is real (metaphysics) and in light of such knowledge how should we act (ethics). (To be continued ...) |
| Biswo | Posted
on 12-Sep-03 02:17 PM
Gokulji, Nice thought, but where is the second part? |
| SimpleGal | Posted
on 15-Sep-03 06:13 AM
Dangg bhai, do you speak from experience? :) Just kidding hai!! Perhaps my musings will be a far cry from the originatior's original intent for this thread. And I apologize if I create a mess here. But I write nevertheless in the spirit of theorizing about life. And as we all are well aware, life does not follow an unflinching linearity that we may all, at some point in life, have wished with all our might that it did. Hence, I let my fingers wander through the keypad........ Last night, as I lay on my bed with a head throbbing with unbearable pain, I stared at the indiglo plastic stars that my landlady, who has peculiar taste in interior design, had pasted onto the ceiling of my room as a young child. I looked around my little room whose walls I have covered with paintings, pictures and other things. I don't like bare walls. They look sad and wanting like a naked human being shivering in the cold and longing for the warmth of an enclosure--perhaps clothes, perhaps something else. I've often been told that life is what you make of it. That it is amorphous and colorless like water and it is YOU who give it shape and the gift of color. Perhaps they are right. Or perhaps they are enforcing upon me the illusion that has sustained life thus far---for them, and to certain degrees, for me as well. Zen buddhists, I read somewhere, sleep with a broken cup under their pillow. Is this the realization for many? That life is essentially, at its core, a broken cup? That life is suffering? A few days ago, someone told me,"Human beings suffer because they deny the fact that life is basically suffering. Buddha realized and accepted this truth, and therefore he was happy." Then I asked this person with my usual naivete and therefore incidentally, as a learner of life,"Why does life have to be about suffering? Why can't life be about happiness and suffering an occasional visitor in people's lives?" This person smiled at me and said,"Even God suffered. Shiva lost his wife Sati and carried her body upon his shoulders and roamed through the universe like a madman. Christ suffered for the sins of mankind. Who are we to complain?" I thought to myself -- well, we are humans, not Gods. Perhaps God doesn't feel pain. But we do. And it hurts! It's easy to philosophize about life as suffering but live it, and you'll know. What do we know about those who suffer? "Oh, your pains are nothing compared to X who lost his/her family to a bus riot by the Maobadis." This is a common solace most of us may have received when on the verge of expressing our discomfort. True, that may be the case. But is there a tool in the world that can gauge whose pain is greater or lesser? Again, it's plain philosophy---philosophizing is just mental masturbation. An escape from the reality, the concreteness, the jarring face of what it is to live. And sadly, I am not immune from this constant philosophizing either! Someone also told me that knowledge comes through comparison. Maybe. "Look at X--poor guy/gal cannot even do Y. At least you can do Y." What are we REALLY trying to say when we say that? Make ourselves feel better by highlighting someone's misfortune? And when does this hierarchy terminate? Who is at the bottom? Who is at the top? Is it solving the fundamental aspect of life---the inescapable reality of suffering? By comparing our problems, we are ignoring the reality of it. Or are we unnecessarily aggravating it? The author of this thread wrote that the goal of life is to survive by being fit. And his arguments from one philosophical/biological/evolutionary perspective are yet to be heard. I can anticipate some of the views that may be presented in this regard. And as a naive learner of life, I may venture the question---well, what does it mean to be fit?who is really fit? and what does the person achieve by being fit in the terms that you and i define? the broken cup remains! |
| KaleKrishna | Posted
on 15-Sep-03 06:57 AM
What is life after all?? This question have always haunted me, who are we, what is our purpose of living. Sorry, you may call me anything, but it is a bitter truth that nobody could give me the answer that I could fully accept. |
| Gokul | Posted
on 15-Sep-03 08:03 AM
Now that there is some feedback, I tacitly assume that this topic as has been presented is not completely esoteric and therefore devoid of any significance or interest to the general public. I already stated that the goal or meaning of human life is to survive by being fit. The relationship between survival and fitness seems tautological. We survive by being fit. The proof of fitness is in the pudding of "survival". Obviously, they are intricately linked. Based on the concept of fitness, we can say that whatever contributes to fitness is GOOD and whatever contributes to the deterioration of fitness is BAD. Hypothesis 1: The purpose of a religion is to assign purpose to the human life, whether there is any or not and the purpose of the human life is to find purpose, whether there is any or not. Now I will discuss how culture and religion use "fitness" as their value proposition in selling themselves to the mankind. The purpose of a religion is to assign purpose to the human life. The purpose of a culture is to be a vehicle to carry the message of the corresponding religion. Culture is a recipe, religion is the actual nourishment. In this light, I will discuss Hinduism, both as a culture and a religion. Every religion must assign value and purpose to the human life in order for them to appear useful. If life is worthless, then all attempts to make it appear worthy, are also worthless. Conversely, if people find religion useful, then they believe that the life has purpose. They also believe that such purpose must be reminded from generations to generations. Culture comes handy for this purpose. If there is a purpose is human life, then each life must be protected, i.e. each life must survive. Hence, the quest of a religion is the quest of survival. Religions use two mechanisms to remain competitive: replication and adaptation. All proselytising religions (mainly Islam and Christianity) use replication techniques. Eastern religion such as Hinduism and Buddhism use adaptation. Interestingly, even microbes use both these techniques for their survival. (To be continued &) |
| vishontar | Posted
on 15-Sep-03 03:38 PM
SimpleGal, I really appreciate you. < Your first sentence reveals your wisdom. You must be keeping eyes on the life. Indeed life does not follow any fancy, sophesticated theories. Life of different people goes differently because the reason of life is different for different people (let me not go in detail about this because this is also unproven theory for me but proved fact for many). What to talk about a theory, it is tediously hopeless job to write some emperical formalation forthe life. No way. SimpleGal, I am sorry for the pain, if its true. May you not get such pain again. Could you see the beautiful wall during pain? Not at all. Why? because the mind which would give pleasent feeling were engaged to react against the deadly pain. It can not do two jobs once at a time. Is that pain under your hand? No. You yourself is not under your control. You are getting old day by day, can you stop it? No, you are intersted to stop your aiging but your are helpless. you have no control on your own. This is called selflessness, Anatma. -------Big fact of life, law of nature, true for one and all, anybody can realize this. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've often been told that life is what you make of it. That it is amorphous and colorless like water and it is YOU who give it shape and the gift of color. Perhaps they are right. Or perhaps they are enforcing upon me the illusion that has sustained life thus far---for them, and to certain degrees, for me as well. Zen buddhists, I read somewhere, sleep with a broken cup under their pillow. Is this the realization for many? That life is essentially, at its core, a broken cup? That life is suffering? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It depends who has told this to you. A thinker, a theorist, a philosopher a bookish or an experienced person or an enlighten person or an exhulted one. Whoever would have told you is correct. Ask him or her for the way or technique to shape your life. Only experienced person will show you the path not thinker, theorist and a philosopher. if you come across elightoned one or exhulted ones, they will show you even far better way which you have not asked for. whatever Buddha said, he said with full experience, Once he said: You are master of your own, you are responsible for your life. Thats true, If you are doing bad, something wrong, then you can not be in peace. you will be restless. To escape that restlessnes, you have to go for cenima, talk to friends, go for concerts, listen musics or do something that will keep you engage(this is what we have been doing in our daily life). On the other had if you are doing good, wholsome, it will keep your mind balance and you will be happy. It s up to you what are you choosing. Aren't you responsible? yes you are. Even if you always cultivate good, wholsome, you may face bitter days. Why? This is little complicated. Let me explain with simple example. Suppose, you are eating junk food, not in time, drinks alcohol, smoke, eat spicy hot food etc., say lots of bad habits in fooding. You realized it now, after many years. You determine to improve your habit and starts. Do you think that you won't be getting any reaction due to your previous bad habit? No. You will pay time to time for that. But you will notice there is change for better. Same is life, if you leave evil, you will get happiness, no doubt but there will be so many bad situations, unwanting situations you will encounter , eventhough you are doing fairly good, absolutely good. Don't take me towards Buddha and his teaching, i will go non stop. Zen, Zen word came from word Jhyan in Pali, Dhyan in Sanskrit. As it went from India to China to Korea to Japan, it turned Zen.I have read a lot about zen teachers. They have different symbolic ways of teaching. That is one of the way. I am with them, eventually there is nothing in life it s not more than a broken cup. Buddha said, this body is not more than rotten pumpkin in winter, why are you attached to it? Zens are considering broken cup. Its similar, both are purposeless and meaningless. cont............... PS: please don' t raise question if Buddha hate life, if I hate life, first listen the whole story then make coments. Since the posting becoming so long, I will write rest tomorrow. Thank you, appreciated. |
| vishontar | Posted
on 15-Sep-03 03:41 PM
Dangg bhai, do you speak from experience? ----this should be the sentence inside the barcket<> sorry |
| SITARA | Posted
on 15-Sep-03 07:02 PM
Life Lost And Found My carefree spirit, I lost, to the winter of maturity; My childhood dreams, vanished with reality. The confidence of youth, the bliss of ignorance, all disappeared, with the dawn of knowledge. Freedom of thought, word and action, entangled in the web of despair. Despair: A time wrought with agony, a disillusionment of life. A change so permanent, everything that was, is not. Values disolved by the tides of life. Even a smile, buried deep Everything that was built, destroyed stone by stone; Unravelled thread by thread, Every bit of love, squeezed by hands of fate. But From the debris, I have salvaged my soul; from death, a new life; From tears, a flicker of a smile; From destruction, a rebirth; From the past, a future; From Was, to Am Each a lesson on its own.. Well taught by the teacher himself; Life, the Greatest Guru of them all. Always a Zennist! Vishontar ji: Beautifully written and well expressed. |
| prawin | Posted
on 15-Sep-03 07:16 PM
i thought life was a practical affair. why would anyone want to theorize on it? |
| vishontar | Posted
on 15-Sep-03 08:27 PM
Thank you very much SITARA Ji, you must be a wise girl. Its not because you praise my writing its because you understood the reality. I mean nothing. I am just a typist, everything what I have written is not my contribution, its law of nature. SimpleGal asked genuine questions, I love to answer such questions with my understanding and experience. I love most and most the word experience. I don't think that I could understand every single word of your poem. Marvelous! ------------------------------------------------- Life, the Greatest Guru of them all. ---------------------------------------------- some sentences touches my heart. This is one of them, because I have realized this on my own. |
| vishontar | Posted
on 16-Sep-03 12:44 PM
contd------------------------------------ Zen buddhists, I read somewhere, sleep with a broken cup under their pillow. Is this the realization for many? That life is essentially, at its core, a broken cup? That life is suffering? Very genius question. Le me answer the middle questions first. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Life is essentially, at its core, a broken cup? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ SimpleGal, I am asking you a counter question. What do you think you are? You are a complete human shape and a living creature. Go for the first time; investigate the closest thing that is your own body. Start form top of the head to the tip of the toes. What is there? A statue of flash and bones. This is reality, you can not escape. Buddha said, ATTHINAG NAGARANG KATAM, MANSHAM LOHITA LEPANAM. YETTHA JARA CHHA MACHU CHA, MANO MAKKHO CHA OHITO. Means: this (body) is the structure given by bones in which flash is plastered with blood, and inside it, old age, death, pride (ego), crookedness etc are hiding. They are hiding indeed. They show up as time rips. This is the whole life. One, who is wise, will understand this reality. This is not a theory. This is a truth. Truth for all of us. Siddartha investigated his being. He looked for I. Where the I is? A big I, always capital. He explored himself and found this reality and becomes Buddha. In his school of teaching, there used to be many many methods to begin meditation. He used to give different technique to different meditators, according to his or hers mental condition. One of them is Patikulamanasikara. In Satipattana sutta (the sutta which contains complete teaching of Buddha), you can see pretty long explanation of this. He used to send meditators to Kachha Samsan (the graveyard where dead bodies were thrown). Then he used to teach them, Oh Bhikkhus see this body, its like log of wood, its now decaying, its now eaten by wolfs, dogs, insects. Its rotten and smelling bad. He used to show these and said, EME VABI EME ANA TITO TI, Same is the result of our bodies also. Feel that, realize that. EME DISWANA KA RATI, Why to generate craving for such thing. Buddhas teaching is practical. He used to teach the worthlessness of body. Thats why Zen masters said life is like a broken cup. It is indeed. They practice that, who am I? I am a broken cup, nothing more than that. I am not more valuable than a broken cup. Ego melts. The ultimate truth is the egoless state. Ego is the barrier to see ultimate reality. This is one of the ways to attain egoless state. One must crush the ego, to get happiness. Ego is the cause of all miseries. Its something which is not real. Its completely hypothetical. I am very good looking. I am very talented. I am very rich. I IIIIIII, always big, capital I. this is the cause of misery. As much as you crush your ego, that much lightness you will feel and that much happiness you will achieve. Queen Khema was so proud of her beauty. Buddha made him realize the worthlessness of life. She became Bhikhuni. Same for his cousin sister Nanda. Once a Janapadkalyani (most beautiful lady of the town and most respected prostitute) died in Vaisali, then Buddha asked all people to gather there. He started gambling for the lady. He said start her price from thousand, he lowered the price and lower again. Nobody were ready to keep her even a Masa (Penny). Then he explained. This is life. As consciousness left the body its meaningless. Indeed its meaningless. It ends with no result. many such examples we can see in Buddha's life. Next question, ---------------------------------------------------------- Is this realization of all? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the science. Fact. Whoever will do the experiment will get same truth. Take two poles of magnets together they will either attract or repeal. Ask anybody to do that will get the same result. Take 2:1 ratio of Hydrogen and Oxygen, you will get water, somebody else repeat the same experiment, will get same water. Same, investigate yourself, explore yourself, be self explorer, you will end up with the same reality as Buddha got, his many disciples. Dont deny just because you dont like this. Test, then deny, if it is not so. Investigate yourself part by part piece by peace, bulk to subtle, dividing and dissecting the reality. You will end up with same conclusion. Be a experimental scientist and make yourself a object under experiment. You will find the same reality as Buddha found. Reality is reality same for one and all. Buddha was also a human being. Truth that he saw can be seen by us. This is what Buddha used to teach. Investigate self and find the reality. Whatever you realize about yourself is called wisdom. Gyan. Most and most important question that I want to answer is the third one, Is life suffering? Many people don't know what Buddha used to teach and if some one has a little knowledge about Buddha they may have wrong view about him. I am writing next, Buddha said life is full of suffering and its meaningless, is he a passimist? If yes, how can a simple monk influence almost the half world in such age of miscular energy? what was he teaching? contd-------------- |
| vishontar | Posted
on 16-Sep-03 10:07 PM
Dear friends, I have completed the answer of the last question. IS LIFE SUFFERING? The answer has become so long that I am worried some of you will try to escape it. I have a special request for you all to read this thread and give me your feedback. I have written this posting addresing SimpleGal but its for all. I will start a new thread of this question sometime in future (not near future). I want many people read this seriously. Why do I urge to read this? Because this is one n only one most important thing for me. Thanking you, Vishontar |
| SimpleGal | Posted
on 17-Sep-03 08:55 AM
Vishontarjyu, Thanks so much for your insights! And your instructions! |
| vishontar | Posted
on 17-Sep-03 10:10 AM
SimpleGirl, I am really glad of your genius question. Thanx. Dear Pal, Coming up, is life miserable? was Buddha passimist? What makes a simple Bhikhu of indian continent popular in asia? I urge you to read the following posting. Please post your feed back and at the end the posting, there will be QUSESTION for you. Please answer for me. Vishowntar, PS: You may think that why I am always talking about Buddha and his experience. The answer is he left nothing new to discover for me. Plus, he helped me to taste the sweetness of reduced ego. |
| vishontar | Posted
on 17-Sep-03 11:12 AM
Q: Is life suffering? Did Buddha say life is miserable? The answer is yes. Did Buddha teach misery? The answer is no. he taught the way to come out of the misery. He was a prince. He had every possible facility and luxury of the time. But he was wise. He saw, life is full of dissatisfaction. SimpleGal, isnt life full of dissatisfaction? Pretend, you are tired, sit on a comfortable sofa. You will feel so relieved. 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes, one hour, two hour, three hours, how long will you be feeling comfortable? See, same posture, you were feeling comfortable before now after three hours you will feel so uncomfortable. What happened? How the comfortable posture becomes problem for you? You will be crippling if you dont change the position. Same law is working for the whole life. Now you are satisfied with something, the same thing will be problem for you later. Life is full of dissatisfaction. Isnt it SimpleGal? Sickness is misery; it gives a lot of dissatisfaction. We all have experienced it. If someone spends splendid life, full of all facility and luxury, without any pain and disease, perfect idle life ( which is not possible, I know), he/she has to be old. Old age is energy less. Its difficult to hold even body. Old age is painful for everybody, but it will be more painful for those people who have lived perfect blissful life. If somebody has not passed through sickness and old age, one must pass through the death. Everybody has to die. Everybody has to leave their loved ones and possessions. Isnt this dissatisfaction? Siddhartha studied deeply and experience the whole meaning of life. He found there are four truth of life. 1. Truth of misery: He experienced life starts with misery and ends on misery. So he counted some miserable moments, Birth is misery: consciousness is with us since we were in the womb of our mom. We have now forgotten that moment completely, how unbearable situation would be inside the womb, we can imagine. This is misery. After womb, nobody comes happy to the earth. Everybody cries. Is that the symptom of happiness? No. birth start from cry. Birth starts from misery. This is truth. No body can reject this. Sickness is misery: indeed it is. This is also a truth. Old age is misery: no body can reject this. This is also a truth. Death is misery: this is also a truth Association with someone whom you dont like is misery: this is also a truth. Dissociation beloved one is miserable: this is also a truth. We want something we dont get that is also a misery: this is also a truth In summery whole life is miserable: indeed, this is truth. These are truths, truth for all. Truth of life. It does not matter if somebody accept these or reject these, these truth are there. It does not matter if some one knows these truths or does not know, these truths are there. Anybody can use his/her intellect and can understand intellectually. But can not be Buddha with intellectual understanding. What new Buddha is saying? Nothing. The truth of misery (Dukkha) is known to everyone. But Siddhartha experienced it. He realized it. After realizing this he looked for the cause of misery. Reason of Dukkha. Root of misery. Then he realized another truth. 2. Truth of cause of misery: He fully convinced that the cause of misery is Trishna. The desire. There are just two desires. One is the desire of getting pleasant things and events, desirable things and events. And another is the desire of running away from unpleasant things and events. The desire of craving and desire of aversion. Craving and aversion are cause of misery. Roots of misery are in craving and aversion. Craving and aversion are real reason of Dukkha. If somebody play an intellectual game can be convinced. This truth is little deeper than the first truth. Play little bit with your intellect, I am sure you will be convinced. Siddartha did not understand these with mere intellect, he realized this truth. He experienced this truth. After this truth. He started to look if the misery can be ceased, if the craving and aversion which are the cause of misery, can be eradicated. He found answer, yes. Then he declared the third noble truth. (Since I could not submit once at a time, I am making two different postings, sorry) |
| vishontar | Posted
on 17-Sep-03 11:13 AM
3. Truth of end of misery: Suffering can be ended. He realized that the craving and aversion which are the cause of misery, can be brought to the end. This is also a truth but we have to believe him until we realize it our self. We can not play intellectual game here to understand this truth intellectually. We have no choice other than faith on his realization. He said, desires can be brought to end. How will we understand this truth with our intellect? No way. He would not be a Buddha if he just had said the suffering can be ended. Desires can be put on end. He gave the technique to end the suffering. He showed the way to eradicate desires, to eradicate cravings and aversion. The way that eradicate suffering is the forth noble truth. 4. Truth of path that ends suffering: He showed the path that ends suffering, a straightforward, scientific path. Siddartha first walked on this path himself and eradicated the cause of suffering. He eradicated all his cravings, all his aversions, all his Trishnas, desires and became Buddha. He taught this to others. Others could also succeeded to end their suffering. Since the way was so scientific and pragmatic, it worked for all whosoever walked on it. This path became so popular and accepted by many people of the world. To see this truth one has to try to walk in the path. Otherwise one has to just accept form the experience of others. Each individual has to walk on this path himself/ herself to eradicate his/her desire, to bring his/hers misery to the end. Buddha named this path as Dhamma. This path is nothing but his teaching. He taught 45 years non stop, day and night and he taught only these four truths. He delivered 84000 sermons, in different places, he taught only these four noble truths. He said, O Bhikkhus this is Dukkha, Bhikkhus this is way that brings out of Dukkha. Walk on the way and come out of Dukkha. He was not pessimistic. He said life is Dukkha, its truth, but he showed the path that ends the Dukkha and give full blessed life, happy life. He was the super scientist who invented medicine to eradicate Dukkha. He said life is Dukkha. Which life? SimpleGal, unenlightened life is Dukkha but enlightened life is full of bless. In modern scientific language he developed a chamber, chamber of happiness. Enter miserable inside the chamber and exist happy, provided you should enter. He discovered a detergent to clean the stain of ignorence which cause suffering. Anybody can clean his/hers mental stains with this detergent, provided the detergent should be used. People of his time said to him, You are Tyagi, you have secrificed everything, kingdom, wealth, family. He answered, No, I am not Tyagi, you are Tyagi. You people have secrificed infinite happiness, infinite bless, infinite peace for worthless mundene things. He was dweling in such mental state. I would like to mention his answer for the quantity of happiness in Nibbanic stage. He said, The happiness that comes from being sole owener of entire earth, the happiness that comes from being sole owner of earth as well as heaven, not only this much, the happiness that comes form being sole owner of entire universe is less the the happiness of Sotapati (the entrance of Nibbana, 3 more stage to reach Nibbana from Sotapanna) Fruit. He used to teach the way to such happiness. He has never taught misery. Q. Can mere accepting these four noble truth gives us happiness? mere understanding these four noble truth will eradicate our Dukkha, suffering? or we need to walk on the path? Vishowntar (SimpleGal, regarding the answer you got life is miserable , it was partial truth. Regarding the story of Shiva cried for Sati Devi, I urged to write somebody about this, which may give us some insight.) |
| mitra 2 | Posted
on 17-Sep-03 01:20 PM
Vishowntar, I enjoyed reading your postings here and in some other threads. Thanks for sharing! It is clear from your posting that you know a lot about Buddha and his teachings. Please share more about the reading materials that you recommend for beginners like me. I mysefl was searching for the truth, meaning of life, and what not! I ended up reading Osho's books and have been practicing meditation for a while. I don't know if Osho says anything new that Buddha didn't teach but I'm really impressed the way he explains things. I like him for the simple reason that he talks a lot about Buddha, his examples are very relevant to the present situation, and no interpretation is required to understand him. To me, life is a mystery. Because it is mysterious, it is beautiful. Buddha says to live your life moment by moment. We become frustrated if we are attached too much into the past which is the known. By living moment by moment, we can move into the new, unknown which is uncertain, scary but it brings excitment to live. I mediate so that I can see the things as they are, not as they appear. I have not experienced a lot, so I better listen to you. Dhanajaya's postings were also very impressive in another thread. I hope you are not the same person. Anyway, keep it up! |
| vishontar | Posted
on 18-Sep-03 05:34 PM
Dear Mitra 2, How close our feelings are! I don't know who you are but i felt we are preety close to each other. As you hate lie, I don't lie, neither I flatter. Please don't keep me at the height. I know my limitation. I am also biginner as you are. I have walked few steps along the way of million miles. Even if you have not started to walk we are preety close, better can say there is no distance. I have also started my journy from Osho. I have read his dozens of books. I used to make spellbound to listeners explaining Dharma, that i had understood intellectually from Osho literature. As you said he mentions Buddha a lot in his speches. The Big meditation Hall in Pune is named as Buddha the Audotorium. He named Acharya Rajnish as he first claimed to be enlightened and then He changed Jorawa Buddha. He said that Maitreya Bodhisattva came from Tushit heaven and both souls worked to gether. Since now Rajnish was combination of Maitriya and himself. He said Jorawa Buddha. he said Maitriya stayed in his body for 3 days only. The Maitriya have different style of teaching so they could not go together. After 3 days became Bhagwan Rajnish. After sometime he found nice name Osho. he frist took this name from Japanese language and then found that there is a word Ocionic in Sanskrit which means Bilaunu, to disapper. Then become Osho. Osho encouraged me to practice meditation. I loved his style of explaination. I am thankful to him that he made me to go for Vipassana meditation earlier (if not i would have gone late, i would go though). I have read Dhamma before. There I got Dhamma to practice. My intellectual knowledge became berrior in the beginning and I was mixed up. Then, I realize that, keeping a lot of things in mind makes mind slow and less active. Same as more files in computer slowdown the computer. I gave all those books to my friends and started practice only. Since then i read very less literature. I have no confussion about practice. I know the path. Now I just have to walk. As much as I walk that much close i will be to the final goal Nibbana. i love to read Buddhas own words though and I does sometime. literatures are just tools. That knowledge doesnot work, rather becomes a barrier, creates confussion. Buddha said, if somebody knows Dhamma intellectually but does not practice, its like a cowboy who look after the cows (of his master) but doenot get milk. Indeed. Shrimad Bhagawat said, others knowledge is like Bajho Gau (the cow which never reproduce). You can neither get drink from such cow nor can kill for meat. I dont' encourage you to read more scripture. Literature are just for encouragement. You can not understand the Path just reading the books and listening from someone. its like you can not learn swiming just reading swiming mannual. you need to have a teacher (Guru) and you have to practice under his guidence. Then you have to practice to be perfect. I will recommend you one book" the art of living, by willium heart". I am sure, this book will help you to understand real Dhamma intellectually. Can this intellectual understanding erase the defilements from your mind? No. opposite, it will inflat your ego. Oh I am such a learned person. I know lot many things about Dhamma and so and so. You can buy book online, www.pariyatti.com. Read my last two postings. That is the entire teaching. Read them twice, i am sure you will understand more in second thime than first. I urge friends to read these two postings repeatedly. I urge friends to answer my question that is at the end of the posting. Thank you mitra, Vishontar |
| Gokul | Posted
on 19-Sep-03 05:31 AM
As the title of this thread indicates, my original intention was to build a rigid THEORETICAL framework that at least attempts to unify some of the observed discrepancies and contradictions of life taking multidisciplinarian approach without yielding to the vagaries of human emotion.Seeing the current "poetic outpourings", I realize that either the topic I proposed was too banal to my fellows OR that they already know very well the futility of discussing the so-called theory of life. In any case, I retract the stupid idea of theorizing life and hope to relish the beauty of poetry, love, and meditation hereafter. Let this thread be called THEOSOPHIZING LIFE. Amen. |
| vishontar | Posted
on 21-Sep-03 09:11 PM
last posting............. Gokul Ji, I am so thankful that I could wirte something here which was origionated by you. I have read your other postings too so I have no hegitation to accept you a learned wise man. I always love to share something with wise people. This thread is for you, based on the heading of the thread. Theorizing life: Theory should have two characteristics. One it should be able to explain experimental results and next it should explain other related phenomena. This is not a question of believing but four noble truths are the complete and pure theory of life. This theory has problem in it and it has complete solution of the problem. Is n't it surprising? A life of single person is so vast, with so many questions and problems. How come these four noble truths contains problem and solution of all beings? Something can be understood clearly by examples. I know you have knowledge of science, so I am giving an example of science. There are millions of problems in nature. There are many laws of physics, many many thick books full of laws and solutions of the problems, tiresome. But whole physics if you summarize, is the study of four forces. 1.Electromagnetic force: The force which cause attraction or repulsion between charges. 2.Weak force: The force which cause redioactive decay. 3.Strong force: the force which binds nucleons (protons, neutrons) together. 4.Gravitation force: attractive force between two masses. These four forces cause different problems in nature. Scientist first unified electromagnetic force and weak force. This is called unifild theory I. this made the problem easy because two forces can be studed with a common theory. Then scientists successfully combined first three forces. This is called unifild theory II. A pakistani scientist Abdus Salam shared Noble price for this. The problem becomes too simple than before. Nobody can combine gravity with these three frorces yet. Scientist are trying for that. They have named the theory where all four forces are studed with single formulation as Grand Unified Theory. As grand unified theory worked, it can give all information of physics in eight page. If will give information about Big Bang to quark. Physics which deals with all problems of nature will be not more than 8 page. This will happen one day. Same way my friend, all problems and solutions of the life are in four noble truth. Nature seems complicated, but it will be completely described in eight page. Life seems complicated but it is completely described within four noble truth. Since these four noble truth are givin by Buddha, don't blame me a Buddhist missionary. i have no religion. I am human my religion is humanity. I respect all scientific paractices of the world. I condemn the all non scientific practices, rights, rituals and dogmas of the world. I practices Buddhas teaching but I am not Buddhist. I condemn the non-scientific rituals of any religion including Buddhism. Four noble truths are not Buddhas private property. They are laws of nature. Buddha has discovered them. Like relativity is not Einstiens property, its law of nature and Einstien has discovered it. Relativity was there before Einstien and it is & will be forever. Similarly, Dukkha and Cause of Dukkha are there whether Buddha or no Buddha. Remady of Dukkha and way to remove the Dukkha are there whether Buddha or no Buddha. Buddha just exposed them. make them public to and arrange them in order. Dukkha is universal and way that brings out of Dukkha must also be universal. Its not reasonal. Its not sectarian. not for particular people. Like, maleria is universal and its vaccine is also universal. for one and all. like disease is universal and its medicine is also univerasl. Melody is universal and it remady is also universal. First two noble turths tell about Dukkha and last two tell about eradication of Dukkha. Dukkha is universal problem of life and way out of Dukkha must be universal solution. This solution has worked for millions of people of past and it has been working now a days. This theory of four truth of life is well tested and well established. This has passed through all the tests and known as complete and pure theory of life. This theory is more valid theory than the Classical theory for macroscopic bodies and Quantum theory for microscopic bodies. These two theories of physics are not expalining the truth but they are closely explainig the truth. But this theory of four noble truths explain the absolute truth.To test theory theory, every individual has to test in their own life. Somebody else can not test for us. My friend, arguement and debate is not my nature. I have love in my heart and only thing to share.I love poems. Poems say lot many in few words. Before farewell, I would like to tell a poem, Talking 'bout the religion, my friend to me listen. Neither I am Hindu, nor I am a Buddhist. Never Jainist, not a Christian, no Muslim no Judist. Neither I am passimistic, you can tell me factist. I am Hindu, I am Buddhist, Jainish and Judist. Me is Christian and a Muslim, Regarding a practice. Every practice wants us be good, want us to leave evil. Help thy neighbour, help yourself, bring cheer to civil. I love christ, Oh my sent, sent of the sents. You teaches the love, Buddha teaches same, I don't find the difference. lets practice love and goodwill, lets practice peace. By the name of Buddha, Krishna, by the name of Christ. Amin Vishontar |
| le chef du nuit | Posted
on 21-Sep-03 09:37 PM
i chewed on some of them mushrooms the other day i clearly saw that all the universe was nothing but an oscillation back and forth back and forth i also saw a tree walk |
| le chef du nuit | Posted
on 21-Sep-03 09:49 PM
on a related note dont you sometimes get the impression that hinduism was (in part) born out of stoners and and psychedelics(sp?) sitting around and looking at their campfires and theorizing? |