| Username |
Post |
| Biswo |
Posted
on 06-Jul-01 01:55 AM
For all of us, who want to talk about descrimination against
people in a society, please watch this beautiful movie. This one
is Acadamy Award winning movie made in 60s, starring Katherine
Hepburn and Shapiro.
Personally, it is sad to hear about descrimination faced by
Reetuji in TU. Sliently brooking such contemptous treatment was
major mistake. That is where you had to rise up, and leave those
narrow minded persons right away. Those who didn't have respect
for people like you couldn't be your friend.
Evolutionary changes are going on, and it surely takes more than
a few years, and a few rules to amend such persisting stigma of
society. Dalit community should take initiative to assert their
right penned in constitution. Educated Dalit community should
teach the fellow people to claim their right.Believe me, caste
system is crumbling. This is temporal existence, and our immediate
progeny will be freed/almost freed from it.
Again, apart from personal behavior,there is no instance of state
or whole Brahmin community resisting any progress of Dalit
community.In the east(Bhojpur?), there is a school run by
Swami Prapannachary where Kirati boys keep tupi, and study
Sanskrit.There are a lot of religious figures in Hinduism
(prominently Dayananda Saraswati of Ridi Pith) who are against
caste system. So, now Dalit community can claim their right to
so called 'holiness' if they want to.
Also, I am enlightened to hear about the descriminations from our
friends here.I will be more enlightened if they write how they
think progress can be made. Going after another community
aggressively doesn't solve this problem, I guess.
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| Reetu |
Posted
on 06-Jul-01 09:01 AM
hi biswo,
personally, i don't know who you are though i do have concern about your posting. stigma, people feel, was made up by the caste system. people may feel stigma labeling them "Dalit" because whereas i know the word and its uses that it does not consider the parity of people in the society. i say if you want social parity (not economic parity) in our society, why don't you object using the word "Dalit" to the discriminated group of people in nepal? you might love using this word. personally, i would suggest you to indicate the group of people as "provokers of caste system". let's see, my opponent when we (a group of fellow political members) were treated roughly because of low caste and different ethnicity at the party meeting, we(two members not all)courageously resigned from the "samiti", i was a secretary of the "samiti" at that time. my resignation took me into this land of freedom. how life could be changed. so, i hate the conception of caste existence and its followers.
Reetu...
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| sally |
Posted
on 06-Jul-01 10:33 AM
Biswo:
Re "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner": It's been a while since I saw it, but it felt very dated to me. The plot of this 1967 movie (for those who haven't seen it) is that a white liberal couple (Hepburn and Spencer Tracy) meet their daughter's (Katherine Ross's) fiancee, an African played by Sidney Poitier. At the dinner, they have to confront their own innate prejudices.
The trouble, for me, was that this African guy is so darned perfect--he's a Harvard doctor or a Nigerian diplomat or something--that it's pretty easy to see how those politically correct parents will overcome their prejudices. Poitier could have been stamped out of a machine for Perfect Son-in-Laws. There don't seem to be any cultural differences, his resume is impeccable, his physical features are quite handsome to white folks (dark but somewhat Aryan), he's foreign (rather than an African-American, which would be more problematic), and even his accent is charmingly British and upper class. Plus, the parents are liberal, so they don't WANT to be prejudiced anyway. So to me, it doesn't face the actual issues of interracial marriage and prejudice.
But of course, it was made in 1967. It was probably a great first step. And if such a film were made in Nepal, it would be fantastic.
Reetu:
I'm sorry you had to deal with such immature, racist jerks. No wonder you feel bitter. But please remember how much you hated to be judged on the basis of your caste/ethnicity, and don't make the same mistake of hating others because of THEIR caste/ethnicity. When you said "I hate the conception of caste existence," I was reminded that I've heard very similar words ... from Bahuns.
There are many, many people of all castes who hate to be categorized as "higher" or "lower" because of their birth, and who hate the fact that other people are categorized that way, too.
And yes, many so-called "high-caste" people DO take action--from such public actions as getting arrested in protest marches to such small personal actions as eating openly and casually with members of other castes/ethnic groups.
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| Kaley |
Posted
on 06-Jul-01 10:52 AM
Well said Reetu,
I feel for you. I know where you are coming from. I know the rigours of societal damage can be , at the least harrowing. I know it is all easy to say the " Dalits" should move on and action out to eradicate the caste system. But what do they know, they have not even lived the dalit's life vicariously.
Eating a meal with the "dalit" does not redeem oneself, even to mention it seems like an act to be applauded or commended upon. What can we do? The issue is entrenched intrincsinly in our culture, not just the society(and that is scary).
Although this is nothing against Biswo who is very progressive and liberal with his thinking and writing ( Ashu needs to learn from Biswo to keep a cool head on his shoulder). Steps are being taken to eliminate the caste system but the steps are still infantile, and we could do with Trai and people not bashing Sarki who is not a person but a accumulated,plural feeling, coming from generations of atrocity and injustice. We need to understand collectively and then accept and then pool together as a nation, perhaps to uproot all indignity.
This from someone who follows the teachings of Gandhi/Buddha/Martin Luther King....
I have a dream.......
yes the eternal Kaley Dreamer
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| sally |
Posted
on 06-Jul-01 11:02 AM
Kaley, let me clarify something, in case you misunderstood.
I totally agree that "eating a meal with the 'dalit' does not redeem oneself." My point is that it's part of naturalizing the whole interaction process. Of course, if it's intended to be "applauded or commended upon," then naturally, it's ridiculous. That would counteract the whole idea. People eat together because they like each other, not to get a prize! But when everyone eats together (and marries and socializes and so on), then caste will cease to be an issue.
Of course, one has to take context into account. There IS something more dramatic about a Bahun in a village going to a Kami's house to eat. (Similar to the lunch counter protests in the US in the early 1960s). It is, of course, less dramatic in an urban setting--although I suspect it's not nearly as ordinary yet as it should be.
I am NOT saying that anyone becomes some sort of saint because of who they eat with. I AM saying that if you notice these small ways in which people have changed their lives and are changing their culture, you'll see that there are many supporters of equal rights. Not as many as there should be, by a long shot. But still, they're out there!
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| Kaley |
Posted
on 06-Jul-01 11:26 AM
Sally,
I understand your point.
I am perhaps writing about people who wear it as a badge that they eat with the lower caste people. I am just hitching my wagon to the star, that maybe the mentioning of congregating with the'dalits' should not even be a point of argument.
Eating is one of the most essential necessities of life and doing it together or not should never be an issue.
Then again I too have to understand the other end of the spectrum like you said.I can look at it from all angles.:) I am not always approaching from the defence ( like the dalits are accused of).
Thank you
And Kaley still dreams
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| Manjari |
Posted
on 06-Jul-01 01:50 PM
Reetu, I empathize with you. I think we all have experienced discrimination in one form or another. I know these days, in the urban areas of Nepal ( mostly Kathmandu), discrimination maybe based on social status. However, when the issue of marriage comes up, this caste based discrimination can be found even within the most liberal families.....which is a shame.
I think as long as this caste conception ( as Reetu pointed out) exists, there will always be some form of discrimination. Unless we reach a stage where there will be no distinction between the sir names, and the name will just imply a person's name and nothing else. This notion of caste based discrimination was instilled into our minds by our society/parents/relatives/guardians. But as educated adults, it is our choice to "undo" this notion and reflect the change in our behaviour. Eating together maybe a significant step for some. But I hope, that my children never get exposed to this notion ( except in history lessons maybe and they get totally bewildered at the concept) and I hope that it never even becomes an issue for them.
While we're on the topic, I'd like to mention this documentary I saw on TV some time ago. It's titled "Blue Eyed" and it is based on the anti-racism experimental workshops given by Jane Elliot, who used to be a 3rd grade teacher. Through her blue-eyed/brown-eyed experiment, Elliot demonstrates how racism can be created and how it can affect one's performance and confidence. She also gives the chance to some people to experience the pain of being discriminated against based on the color of their eye ( without telling them at first ofcourse) and it was quite amazing to see their reaction. I remember I happened to watch the show the night before one of my final exams and I couldn't concentrate after watching the show. It had such an impact on me.
You might be able to get a copy of it from your local/school library if you are interested.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 06-Jul-01 01:56 PM
Dear all:
Sally, I somehow missed the name of the actor of Guess who is
coming to dinner, and wrongly put Shapiro. There is one famous
American who translates Chinese books into English, Sidney
Shapiro, and I was somehow mistakenly trying to write the same
name.
Sidney Poitier didn't play a foreigner. He played a (fmr?) Yale
medical school asst professor working for a Geneva based UN
organizaiton, and meets Ross in Hawai where he was giving a
lecture in the university. His parents were LA based postmen. So,
they were not foreigner. He was too perfect, but he was 37 Yrs
old, and was a divorcee. He was African American black.
The reason I asked people to watch the movie was of course to show
how even liberal people can goof up when it is time to implement
what they say. I say Dalits (Sorry, Reetuji. Dalit word is used
by Dalit community also. In your rebelliousness, please don't be
very narrow minded! Dalit community is mainly concerned with
equal right and progress, and the name of their orgaization
also includes the 'objecionable' word) are equal to
us, but how will I react if my daughter wants to marry one? How
will other liberal people react in such situation?
Also, I agree that some people (may be including me) mention their
interaction with a few members as a 'batch'.But my friend of Ascol
who is now a multimillionaire (he told me last time when I met him
in KTM and we together had a breakfast) probably never knew that I
knew he was from Dalit community. This is probably first time I
was giving his name to prove that new generation is not
uncomfortable with social interaction.
Also, finally, I don't want to hurt fellow posters, but why don't
I get any creative suggestions from you about eradicating such
descrimination? Hey,we want some new idea here.
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| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 06-Jul-01 11:29 PM
HI all,
an interesting discussion.
However, we all seem to miss the most important point here, that even within many ethnic groups, discrimination exists. So, discriminations shouldn't be viewed merely as bahun vs sarki. That's a micro level. We have to start from the micro-level. Start eradictaing discriminations within our group, then move forward to other groups. A step-by-step approach is needed to deal with this.
Just my thought.
Trailokya Sarki (as reetuji would call me)
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| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 06-Jul-01 11:30 PM
Please read this line... vs sarki. That's a micro level. We have as That's a macro level.
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