| Sajha.com Archives | |
| Username | Post |
| saajan555 | Posted
on 23-Oct-03 10:08 AM
Check the link below for full story. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100992,00.html |
| NepaliThito | Posted
on 23-Oct-03 10:16 AM
That is really bad news for all the Illegal Immigrants. I am afraid, if any of the Nepali Friends are included on it. Good luck to all my fellow nation citizen, stay out of trouble. Cheers NepaliThito |
| sankaa | Posted
on 23-Oct-03 11:00 AM
pinche migra |
| nepali_angel | Posted
on 23-Oct-03 02:43 PM
Bad news or not, you have to follow the laws of the land if you want to enter this country. You can't just barge in illegally like you own everything. Come here legally or get the hell out. As simple as that. |
| sankaa | Posted
on 23-Oct-03 03:29 PM
Good point Nepali Angel. i totally agree with you. You should tell this things to those INS people and tell them to go wherever their ansistors were from; western Europe, Russia , EAster Europe wherever. I am sure their ansistors did not follow the laws of Native Americans at that time as well. |
| Nirvana | Posted
on 23-Oct-03 03:59 PM
Sankaa- LOL. you know how to get back to people don't you?? :-)) |
| nepali_angel | Posted
on 23-Oct-03 04:28 PM
Sankaa, it's the people of the time that make the rules. America was founded on Western principles and values and traditions and customs. There was no America before Westerners settled here, except for a group of people who were living here, almost in a stoneage way. How would you feel if a bunch of dhotis inundated Nepal? The days of the Native Americans is over, what's past cannot be repeated. The status quo now is that America is a land occupied principally by people of European origin. You should be grateful that as an immigrant(and I have a feeling you are illegal judging from your insecure message) you were allowed to luxuriate in such a wonderful place. Native Americans did not have a nation, nor did they really have a clear set of rules. Sure, if you consider cannibalism to be the law of the land, then go ahead. Of course, it's sad that the natives had to face mass extinction of that nature, but again, that is past. If you're living in my time, America is the most powerful country in the world. We can smoke out terrorists hidden deep in some crevice with our bunker busting bombs and such. There are certain rules you need to folllow if you wanna remain in this country. Follow the laws. Because, I seriously **would** consider complaining to the INS, even if the person was a fellow Nepali in question, were I to find out that the fellow doesn't have legal proof of citizenship or immigration or naturalization. I don't stand people who leech on others and are basically speaking pests to the people in general. I came here legally, which was truly an arduous task for me. If we allow illegals to stay here, what are we promoting, that it pays to break laws and be shady and conniving and criminal-minded? Bunch of baloney, I tell you. |
| DP | Posted
on 23-Oct-03 04:31 PM
Most of the corps in the US are employing foreigners. Not all of them are in the US legally.Three of the US soldiers who died in Iraq had entered the US illegally.If the Fed employs illegals, why shouldn't WM or KM? If the US really wants, it can kick all the illegals out of the country.Why are they not doing that? This is the country of "Illegal Immigrants", so nobody is "Illegal Immigrant" here. As far as those caught in WM raid, they are unlucky ones. |
| nepali_angel | Posted
on 23-Oct-03 04:42 PM
It's because American presidents are pandering to big corporations and are also not doing anything about immigration for political reasons. Our Bush knows perfectly well that it would be a huge political blunder if he decided one day to boot all illegal immigrants(who are mostly Mexicans) back to where they came from. You see, our Bush purportedly is rather popular among Hispanic voters. The majority of Americans are tired of illegal immigrants huddling together and turning nice livable places into slums. More than 60% of Americans want this problem to be dealt with. But then again, we need to consider the democrats vs the republicans divide, and the fact that independents don't stand much of a chance in winning a presidential election. So, there is a strong division, and even when there is a strong candidate who opposes immigration(usually from the Republican side), he is going to lose, because hispanics and other minorities, aside from Asians are against taking steps to boot the illegals out of this country. Minorities already make up a big % of the American population, and they are not helping. Asian and White Americans are actually on the same side regarding this matter. They oppose illegal immigration. |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 23-Oct-03 05:01 PM
nepali angel=naprican? |
| dautari | Posted
on 23-Oct-03 07:30 PM
I agree, Bhunte dai. I am not sure but didn't Gov Davis issue a law allowing illegal immigrants in Cal to have driver's licence issued to them? If yes, isn't that technically allowing illegal aliens to remain in the USA? Isn't that a double standard? Again, I am not sure about this (I heard it from someone else), but weren't illegal immigrants given amnesty as well as legal status about a decade back? I agree with DP when he writes : "If the US really wants, it can kick all the illegals out of the country.Why are they not doing that?" |
| sankaa | Posted
on 23-Oct-03 09:22 PM
Nepali Angel, Seriously , how old are you? don't worry i'm not trying to hit on your or anything. Just want to make sure that i'm not arguying with a 12- yr -old. Please let me know if you are above 16 or below 16 then i will post a message accordingly. Till then , let me just tell you this sweetness: Those white peepz didn't follow the law when they came here, did they? instead they gave out blankets worn by diseased people in the europe to the innocent Native Americans. yeah, they gave away blankets with chickenpox when they couldn'mt win wars with arms and ammuniations with local tribes. Now , you're suggesting here that all those things were justificable because they were done in the past? So it's like basically they came here killed bunch of people, it's all cool, and now they are shutting the door cuz they were here before those poor immigrants who work thier assoff and get no benifits for thier hard work, isn't it? If U.S deports all the illegal immegrants then who will gonna do the hard work, you? Americans are fat and hardly move thier head around. In the history of America and even today, it is the illegal and legal immigrants who are leading this country into prosperity. My sociologist proff told me once that it is all the hard working illegal people whose tax money covers the social security and medicare for old americans and he was so happy to tell that america don't even have to pay the illegals back with benefits; simply deport them :) dyammnnnnnn... now are you one of those ppezz who think all darkeys ppl are from mars? just curious... take care... |
| ru | Posted
on 23-Oct-03 10:07 PM
nepali angel..nice to see that you are a nice abiding person, and hopefully that trait is specific to any country of residence. for me...it has always been "..getting caught is the crime!!"... but I guess as long as I maintain that in every country, at least the INS won't charge me for double standards. Regarding your analogies of Nepal/India and Western civilization/Native Americans...I found it, for a lack of a better word, interesting. Would I be wrong in assuming, following your line of reasoning, that India's occupation of Nepal would be accepted (should that happen) should you and I discuss it after a couple of centuries of the date of the incident...more specifically, should normative discussions only be based on status quo? In any event, should recurring game theory be agnostic to past events? btw...what might be the majority-minority difference as a percentage of the national polulation? ...jus curious. |
| ru | Posted
on 23-Oct-03 10:08 PM
law abiding person...first line |
| Saajan555 | Posted
on 23-Oct-03 10:15 PM
hey Nepali _angel u sound to be a white/white wannabe living outside a diversed city, fed up riding T with other ppl of color (mind the word sound). And let me ask you a question. Are you goanna feed some info to your INS if you see some intl. students taking full time course and working their azz off(without work authorization) to pay their bills and tuition???Just curious. |
| eminem8 | Posted
on 24-Oct-03 08:05 AM
I agree with sankaa on asking her age before discussing the matter further. but, "Native Americans did not have a nation, nor did they really have a clear set of rules." The Indians did have their own set of rules.............have you ever gone to any of their festivals (pow wow)????..............hell, they have a lot richer vulture and history. Just because they did not know how to build fancy bombs and guns doesnt give anyone any rights to barge into their 'land', and kill them off and claim the land. "Of course, it's sad that the natives had to face mass extinction of that nature", is it just me or does anyone else see this sentence analogous to the following sentence:- "it is sort of sad the rats had to be killed such brutally, but they were eating all our grains". If the 'Americans', now consider this land to be their home and feel that noone else should be allowed in, the 'Americans' four hundreed years ago must have felt the same way..............noone really seemed to care about them. I was at the post office the other day, and since i leave in the north-eastern coastal town, there are always artifacts representing the the lives of the immigrants and their way of life. One of the pictures in the post office had a nice european style house and was showing an Indian hiding outside with a bow and arrow and the picture was named 'cruel adversaries'. See, the irony is that, for the Indian, the new settlers were adversaries in their 'home' too. Anyways, like you said, we cant really dwell on the past and cry, can we? All i am asking is, the recognizion that what people now are doing is nothing different from their ancestors had done...........just that thought in the back of their heads................ And lastly, I have no idea who you are talking about when you say 'Our Bush', cause i certainly dont know anyone by that name. Well, i sort of remember hearing some monkey-look-alike-man called' 'Bush on the TV ones, all he was saying was 'value', 'freedom', 'liberating fellow humans' and 'terrorism'. I do know what the meanings of those are supposed to be...............but in the context of what he was saying and in the sentences he was using those words in..................it absolutely didnt make any to me.........not at all..................maybe i am not smart enough to 'understand' Bush.............but.............. more when i know how old you actually are. -Shady |
| whine and chij | Posted
on 24-Oct-03 09:08 AM
nepali_angel, looks like you touched a raw nerve, now doesn't it? your age is irrelevant. have a great weekend! |
| FrankWhite | Posted
on 24-Oct-03 09:32 AM
I dont know what her age is but if she really feel the way she writes than she is definitely under 16. But I think she is pulling a prank and just want to observe others feedback and if not then NA before you make some moronic remarks get your facts straight. The French are given the credit for the modern day form of democracy but they got their ideas from the Indians in South and North America. Also, as mentioned above when the first so called Americans came here they were the first illegal immigrants. The Natives are like Nepalese very humble and the white took advantage of their humbleness and now they are not even recognized as American citizens. They are thrown into the reservations like dogs where there is high rate of poverty, unemployment, suciceds, drug and alcohol abuses and etc.... What I find very funny but very sad at the same time is that most Nepali professionals (my parents friends) who make it here think like the whites and tries to act like them. But the whites don't accept them as equal to them instead they are probably making racists jokes behind their backs. Without Martin Luther king jr. all non-whites would be considered black and treated like second class citizens. And if most whites have their way they would kick out all illegal and legal non white immigrants because everyone in this word has some form of racism and that includes me too and if you say that you are not racists they u are lying to yourself. As for my self I don't care how long the dhotis have been living in Nepal, I would never consider them Nepalese. Even though they would deny it and never admit it, hanging out with many whites I came to conclusion that they feel the same way about the new Americans. My main point is that they are doing the job that ordinary American doesnt want to do and if all the illegal were deported this country will collapse. Also, most importantly if they are paid by checks then they are supporting the American schools, infrastructures, elders and people in welfare who are not blacks but white because they make up about 70 % of the population. The real crooks are whites (lawyers, doctors and business executives) that are giving these people jobs and ss card cause without the ss card u can't work anywhere. Why blame the victims instead blame the people who run ths system. Thats my word By the way NA, I am a recent college grad Nepali American or as some might put it Neprican. Peace, FW |
| nepali_angel | Posted
on 24-Oct-03 12:20 PM
No, I am not pulling a prank, nor am I 12 years old. I am just a good samaritan and a law abiding citizen of the greatest country in the world. Rome, Indus valley, Greece, Sumer were all but fleas when compared to the greatest of the greatest country, US of A, and this cannot be denied. Now, for the rebuttal. "instead they gave out blankets worn by diseased people in the europe to the innocent Native Americans" Don't confuse the Spanish way with the Anglo-Saxon way. We are talking about America here, not some stupid under-developed Latin American country. The Anglo-Saxons LEGALLY bought lands from the natives, the result of which was the natives were pushed further and further. Whilst the Anglos chose land, which in the longrun proved to be a better choice, the Spaniards went for gold. The latter group inevitably were left behind and couldn't compete with the prescient Anglos in terms of power, economy and influence. So, your mistake here was that you lumped all Europeans into one pot, so to speak. Another thing to keep in mind is the simple cliche that history repeats itself. The Native Americans came from somewhere in Siberia and crossed the landbridge to Alaska. The so-called Europeans are not indigenous Europeans either, they moved Westward from Central Asia. The Lapps and Saamis of Europe are what we would call indigenous Europeans. Also, all humans branched out from Africa to various parts of the region. The neanderthals, because they were hunted mercilessly by the cro-magnon types, had to face extinction. The Middle-East and South Asia, having received countless waves of invasions, are quintessential melting pots. My point basically is that, throughout history, humans have subjugated and oppressed other humans for the sole purpose of survival. This is how history has always been. So, it just boils down to the fact that when we distinguish recent and past events, it's the recent events that we remember, and the past is forgotten. The subjugation of Native Americans was relatively recent compared to some aforementioned events, and as such, we are pretty touchy when we hear about it. Before crying racism and oppression, let's look at our own faults, first of all. Here we have the oppression of a caste we call the untouchables for eons and eons in South Asia. Europeans enslaved people, but they were also the ones to free them. We, on the other hand, are still busy entangling ourselves off of casteism. The so-called untouchables are even worse than slaves. At least Europeans didn't treat anybody that worse. And the fact is people of European descent do acknowledge past wrongdoings. We, on the other hand, are either too busy defending apartheid, or are oblivious to it. Tell, me which is worse? "If U.S deports all the illegal immegrants then who will gonna do the hard work, you" Let's look at some facts here. The unemployment rate of our great country is, to ballpark it, 6%. Some of the jobs that Americans could have easily gotten are now in the hands of criminals, i.e. the illegals. Illegal immigrants cost America billions of dollars, and as such, Americans(specifically European and Asian Americans) are fed up of them. Our president, GW Bush, is busy pandering to corporate giants and hispanic voters, so he could get reelected in the next election. What America needs now is someone like Pat Buchannan(I actually want a lukewarm version of Buchannan, he is too pro-white) who can represent the people. Sadly though, ours is a two-party system, and independents are pushed aside come election time. This is what sucks. What America really needs to do is put illegals in a catch-22 situation. If it were up to me, I would make illegals register with the INS. If they don't then they have no chance of acquiring green card . If they do register, then they are to be booted. This easily solves the illegal immigration problem, in my opinion. Also, about allowing illegals to acquire driver's license in the state of California, surely this is going to be overturned by Arnold. Grey Davis was sucking up to minority voters to not get recalled. This is a fact. Another simple fact to remember is that there are hispanics in some states who have been living there even before the coming of the Anglos. They, too, in fact are against illegal immigration! "it is the illegal and legal immigrants who are leading this country into prosperity" Sources please????? Illegals are nothing but a burden to society. Legal immigrants came here lawfully, and I have no problem with them. Eminem said, "The Indians did have their own set of rules.............have you ever gone to any of their festivals (pow wow" Uh, what has festivals to do with rules? I don't understand the comparison here. The civilization of the natives was never even able to invent the cart-wheel. They did have savagery associated with some of their customs, and they were known to walk around butt-naked. "If the 'Americans', now consider this land to be their home and feel that noone else should be allowed in, the 'Americans' four hundreed years ago must have felt the same way" The greedy natives hastily sold land to the Anglos. This was done by the NATIVES themselves. The natives didn't have a nation, so they have no right to claim that foreigners snatched land from them. As I said before, history repeats itself. See above for explanation. "Well, i sort of remember hearing some monkey-look-alike-man called' 'Bush on the TV ones, all he was saying was 'value', 'freedom', 'liberating fellow humans' and 'terrorism'" You have no right to be in this country. You are either a traitor, or an illegal immigrant. An American would respect the president no matter his political inclinations. |
| ameeshaa | Posted
on 24-Oct-03 12:40 PM
nepali angel le singnature series ko class leko thiyo jasto cha. khubai american values, vision, tradtion ko kura garcha ni. testo thaha pako bhaye, mero homework nepali angel lai garuthiyeni.heteri, i missed this chance |
| FrankWhite | Posted
on 24-Oct-03 01:35 PM
NA, One thing I forgot to mention, indeed USA is definately the best country in the world. Yeah, she has her own problems but what country doesn't? The best way to describe this country is that it is indeed the land of opportunities no matter how big or small. If Nepal becomes a failed state, I rather have her be part of a U.S. state then an Indian or Chinese state. Peace, FW#1 |
| confused | Posted
on 24-Oct-03 01:51 PM
Nepali_angel is absoulutley true..man.. saanka let me come to your house and get the keys "from you for your house"..would you like that??? saanka you are just looking at just one side..Consider looking at both sides...IF you are a white guy Would you like to go to Mcdonals and see a SPANISH SPEAKING women working who doesnt know a word of english.. I know you wuldnt feel pleasant Sannka..you would feel alienated from your own land.. |
| sankaa | Posted
on 24-Oct-03 02:32 PM
Dear Nepali angel and Confused: Nepali angel, I am kind of busy today , but please check back tommrrow. I will have one posted here for you :) confused: Your question is fundamentally wrong and irrevalant in this scenerio. First of all this was never thier home so there.. it makes a huge difference. Confused, do you know that in American , you don't need to speak English to be an American? What makes you think that if the girl is a spanish speaking then she is illegal? Do you know 14 million American's first language is not English? Good think i am not such ignorant white boy. If that white boy feel anienated by seeing spanish people then that white boy must have serious issues; must be kkk or some shit like that... he need to go seek a help... this is a country made of people from everywhere, if the white boy feels uncomfrotable seeing dark people or spanish people then that is his problem. Angel sweetie.. see you tomm ;) |
| sankaa | Posted
on 24-Oct-03 02:33 PM
please forgive me for my typos and grammatical errors.. (i'm in a meeting ;) ) love sankaa |
| czar | Posted
on 24-Oct-03 02:55 PM
The basic assumption here is that an angel is female. Incorrect assumption. |
| DP | Posted
on 24-Oct-03 05:14 PM
I just have a quick question for Nepali Angel: Have you ever ( I mean ever....even for a second.....in your driving history) driven over the posted speed limit? You might say 'no'.But,I guarantee you have.That is the "breach of LAW" right there.If so, that makes you ILLEGAL too....... Law is law...doesn't matter....immigration or traffic........ Only those get speeding ticket who are pulled over.....it doesn't mean that those who didn't get ticket were not over speeding. |
| eNigma_too | Posted
on 24-Oct-03 08:45 PM
Don't know why, but I feel like Nepali_angel is oys_chill in disguise !! czar..I admire your intelligence on being able to find out the sex !! I am sure nepali_angel is not a female as she doesn't have any bit of female trait..Just a doubt.. |
| salakjith | Posted
on 24-Oct-03 09:11 PM
Nepali angel, why do you think people stay in US as illegal immigrants? Don't you think those people value their job and the pay from it more than the risk involved? If they saw the risk as a greater threat, then they would have taken a different path. But some people simply do not have the opportunity that you may have had and it is not in good faith to condemn others for something they cannot help. How would you like to be in a similar situation where you have to weigh between going back to a country with a highly diminishing job prospect and taking the risk and actually being able to work for a living? Im pretty sure if the people taking these risks had any better opportunities, they would have taken it; but as long as the value outweighs the risk, people will opt to get the maximum possible value till it equilibrates with the risk involved. I am pretty sure you would understand this fact. On the other hand, in an ideal world, people all over should have the ultimate decision to chose where they want to work to allow efficient allocation of resources. Over time, the tendency is for a flow of workers towards higher wages till the wages all over the world equilibrates. Countries trying to have difficult immigration laws are only holding back what is inevitable and only slowing a process that is only natural. US being a self-proclaimed leader of the free world should have been advocating against things like unreasonable immigration laws and subsidizing their domestic industries. But so often, hypocrisy seems to be the rule of the day. |
| FrankWhite | Posted
on 24-Oct-03 11:24 PM
yeah sala, nice theroy!!! not kidding! FW#1 |
| Soleil | Posted
on 25-Oct-03 12:58 AM
And, I have to admire your intelligence as well, enigma_too. You sure are 100% accurate on figuring out Nepali Angel's gender, moreover, her other sobriquet. But, somehow my intuition says otherwise. Nepali Angel is Nepali Angel; is a female whereas, Oys Chill is Oys Chill, and a male. I cannot still apprehend the fact why you, my riddling puzzling enigmatic brother, have so much vexation towards this poor little guy called Oys Chill?You said yourself in your other thread that you do not derive pleasure by belittling others, and here you are showing your double standards. CHILL OUT!!! So far, very stalwart arguments and strong points on Nepali Angel's part. Kudos to you NA. History revived. But, the dim-witted imbellic part of me is still three bricks shy from grasping some of the key factors. NA, would you please help me answer the following questions? NA wrote (I have quoted her statements in conjuction) :....." it's the people of the time that make the rules. America was founded on Western principles and values and traditions and customs. There was no America before Westerners settled here, except for a group of people who were living here, almost in a stoneage way"...... "Native Americans did not have a nation, nor did they really have a clear set of rules" ........" Of course, it's sad that the natives had to face mass extinction of that nature, but that is past...." 1. What exactly is a nation? Simply put, what is the definition of a nation? As I checked in my dictionary, it sure did not match to your elucidation. Apart from that, even after the founding fathers of America did declare an independence, it sure did not cover the 50 states as of today. There were only 13 states. They also had the southern confederate states, mainly consisted the outlaws. Thus, earning the nickname, the outlaw states. So, what western priniciples and values, traditions and customs are you referring to? What exactly were the clear set of rules? Then again, it's past and let's not dwell into it. NA wrote: " Rome, Indus valley, Greece, Sumer were all but fleas when compared to the greatest of the greatest country, US of A, and this cannot be denied...." 2. NA, aren't you dwelling into the past? Come on, when Rome, Indus Valley, Greece, Sumer and many more great civilizations were in their hay day, America or US of A, wasn't even there. They might seem fleas today but, they were the greatest in their time. You cannot compare then and now. NA wrote again : " Another thing to keep in mind is the simple cliche that history repeats itself. My point basically is that, throughout history, humans have subjugated and oppressed other humans for the sole purpose of survival. This is how history has always been. So, it just boils down to the fact that when we distinguish recent and past events, it's the recent events that we remember, and the past is forgotten." 3. The simple cliche that history repeats itself. Aren't the alleged illegal immigrants simply doing the same thing that the first settlers from Europe did 200 some years ago? To make a living. And so very true, throughout the history, the humans (powerfuls) have subjugated and oppressed other humans for the sole purpose of survival. Now, is it antithetical than the survival of the fittest? NA wrote: "Let's look at some facts here. The unemployment rate of our great country is, to ballpark it, 6%. Some of the jobs that Americans could have easily gotten are now in the hands of criminals, i.e. the illegals. Illegal immigrants cost America billions of dollars, and as such, Americans(specifically European and Asian Americans) are fed up of them" ......................."We can smoke out terrorists hidden deep in some crevice with our bunker busting bombs and such. " 4. Do you really consider the inflow of the illegal immigrants into the US is the number ONE cause of the growing unemployment rate and the economic deficit? I would agree to some extent it has made an impact, but that would be considered negligible if you really find the factuals. Are you watching too much FOX 5 News dear lady? Just because an immigrant is illegal doesn't mean he/she is a criminal and a terrorist. Do you understand the terminologies and their meanings? Do you know the cost of one of that bunker busting bomb could feed how many hungry children worldwide, as oppose to how many terrorists it would kill? Just a thought! Peace!!!! |
| Bob Marley | Posted
on 25-Oct-03 02:50 AM
Nepali Angel I understand your concern for your "country". It's a truth and those illegal immigrants are criminals. I'm an American myself. But you've put too many facts of history that are unreasonable. This thread is about Walmart and the raid of illegal immigrants. Come on.. if you consider yourself a wise American (you do seem like one with all the history and the facts in head),what is Walmart? About 90% of its products are Chinese. Why? Cheap labor, low cost and and and that's how the middle class Americans survive by buying products from Walmart. Get it!. They can't afford high end products made by expensive designers WITH AMERICAN LABOR. Simply put. Expensive!!!!! Have you heard by 2005, most of the high tech jobs are going to be exported to India, China and other profitable countries? Wake up and smell the coffee....this great nation needs people from all levels of profession if they want to the greatest in the future. Whether they're tomato pickers or H1 visa programmer at Microsoft. You should have never been amazed by the news. It's every where in every companies. Now don't tell me that this country is so perfect. I'm amazed that you even compared this nation with Rome, Greece and others. Few hundred years of history compared to thousand years of glory and influences? You've studied history... no doubt...but isn't it too early to compare? Are these immigrants so much a news compared to all the greedy CEO? Many of those CEO are still not prosiquited. Why? No matter...where...there is still "source and force"(like in Nepal) Who do you think has caused more effects on the economy? Martha Steward is coming up with new ideas and products again. NA (American Angel) I think you've been watching too many of Bill O' Reilly, Scarborough on Fox. I'm not trying to disrespect you, simply trying to look from both side why those illegial immigrants shouldn't be so much of a shock comapred to all the other stories around the country.You do seem to be very educated and too fast to throw aways the facts right on the face. Dhanyebat.. |
| Bob Marley | Posted
on 25-Oct-03 02:58 AM
Soleil... You're damn right. Right on bro... NA...Oh! I forgot I was once an illegial immigrant and I worked my ass off. Only if you had experienced that life...then you know what it actually means. Now I'm an American citizen...Wha does it say? Only in America dude! God Bless America... |
| Suna | Posted
on 25-Oct-03 03:48 AM
"Let's look at some facts here. The unemployment rate of our great country is, to ballpark it, 6%. Some of the jobs that Americans could have easily gotten are now in the hands of criminals, i.e. the illegals. Illegal immigrants cost America billions of dollars, and as such, Americans(specifically European and Asian Americans) are fed up of them" NA, One should be proud of one's country and it's heritage! You sound like a passionate citizen and all the more power to you. BUT you also sound like a redneck. Maybe those illegals worked illegally in Walmart but do you think one of your countrymen would work for minimum wage with no benefits? Americans would work for minimum wage cleaning bathrooms?? illegal immigrants cost Americans billions of dollars? Please elaborate and don't make sweeping statements. When the economy was good about 3 years ago...Indians used to be lured to the states to work in IT companies. Yes LURED. When the economy started to get bad, those very same Indians were blamed of robbing jobs! How ironic!!!! America has been known to make use of cheap labor when the going is good and turned around and shunned those very same people!! Its been happening for YEARS. Started with the CHinese making the railroads and now bathroom cleaners in Walmart. NA, as Bob Marley put it, wake up smell the coffee (perhaps put in a can by an illegal) and look where things in a store are made in. CHINA, INDIA, NEPAL, MEXICO....cheap labor....need we say more??? |
| nepali_angel | Posted
on 25-Oct-03 05:33 AM
"Aren't the alleged illegal immigrants simply doing the same thing that the first settlers from Europe did 200 some years ago? " Yes, they are, but that doesn't mean that America does not have the right to protect its borders. Even then, the problem, as of now, is like fixing a watermain break with a chewing gum, it just doesn't last long, until we come up with real methods to deal with this breach of law, illegal immigration. "Do you really consider the inflow of the illegal immigrants into the US is the number ONE cause of the growing unemployment rate and the economic deficit" No, I don't, but it is **a** cause, and that's the bottomline. "just because an immigrant is illegal doesn't mean he/she is a criminal and a terrorist. Do you understand the terminologies and their meanings" No, of course not, but there are some "immigrants" who really would do anything to harm this country. Another problem is that illegal immigrants are leeches. They are stealing jobs from Americans. You cannot make the excuse that they do jobs that no other American does. I see many Americans working at Pizza Hut or as janitors. I don't know where people get this pretext from. "About 90% of its products are Chinese. Why? Cheap labor, low cost and and and that's how the middle class Americans survive by buying products from Walmart" Yeah, it is cheap labor, but we are talking about illegal immigration here, you threw a red herring, so I am not going to rebut this argument. I am a liberal on almost all issues besides immigration. "Have you heard by 2005, most of the high tech jobs are going to be exported to India, China and other profitable countries" That is actually one complaint that Americans have. The problem is that softwares made in India or China are not of the same caliber as that made in America. So, what we have is that standards have gone down. Only yesterday did I hear that the Tech industry is faring better than before. What we need is a president who's going to put a big stop to outsourcing. Bush just panders to big companies. Clinton would probably have solved the problem of outsourcing by now. "hundred years of history compared to thousand years of glory and influences" Rome, Greece, Indus valley relied on spears and swords to win their wars, we rely on high tech bunker busting bombs and other such weapons that have made war much easier. We have cars, computers, the railroad, aeroplanes, electricity, etc...other civilizations pale in comparison to what America has achieved. "Are these immigrants so much a news compared to all the greedy CEO? Many of those CEO are still not prosiquited" Well, we need to deal with both the problems. That's how I see it. "Maybe those illegals worked illegally in Walmart but do you think one of your countrymen would work for minimum wage with no benefits? Americans would work for minimum wage cleaning bathrooms" Oh? You do know that there are more than 10% of Americans living in poverty, correct? People of this sort would be very grateful to grab jobs of any sort. So how on earth can you say that there aren't people out there who won't work on minimum wage? "illegal immigrants cost Americans billions of dollars? Please elaborate and don't make sweeping statements" Actually, you can check it out on vdare.com. It is basically speaking a conservative site that only deals with immigration issues. Some of the writers there are hardcore conservatives, and even racist, but some are pretty analytical, like Steve Sailer. Just search some of the archives, you'll hit serendipity once you do that. "When the economy was good about 3 years ago...Indians used to be lured to the states to work in IT companies. Yes LURED. When the economy started to get bad, those very same Indians were blamed of robbing jobs" I don't agree with you. H1B visa permits one to work in the US legally. They are here to fill in a void. I only have problems with illegal immigration. |
| nepali_angel | Posted
on 25-Oct-03 05:33 AM
Damn, lots been going here. My quick response typed as fast as possible, so ignore all errors. "Have you ever ( I mean ever....even for a second.....in your driving history) driven over the posted speed limit?" Of course I have, and I always do. We are talking about different levels of breaking laws here. You can't expect a larceny to be treated the same as murder, just to give you an overblown example. With murder comes capital punishment, with larceny comes a few months behind bars. Similarly, a person who violates a major American law(i.e. come here illegally) will not ever be treated the same as somone who runs the red light or speeds. We are comparing apples with oranges here. How does it make me illegal if I speed? I don't understand. In case of illegal immigration, the person himself is illegal, but in case of speed violation, it's your driving that's the crime, although the person is responsible for how he drives. Therein lies the difference. "you think those people value their job and the pay from it more than the risk involved" No, the question isn't whether illegal immigrants value their jobs, but rather the criminal nature of their job and their immigration status, which the American government hasn't endorsed. Every country has laws meant to be followed if you don't want to end up in the cooler. The simple fact is, if you want to stay here, you apply for green card, and if you're accepted, then welcome. It's much harder to come here with Green Card than to just slip in across the borders or to stay after the visa expires. The latter two are illegal, the former is the legal way and the right way. In parts of Florida and Texas these days, it's hard to get jobs if you don't understand Spanish. This is a direct effect of illegal immigrants, who mostly are of Hispanic descent. "But some people simply do not have the opportunity that you may have had and it is not in good faith to condemn others for something they cannot help" I certainly do empathize with them, I do, trust me. But as a law abiding citizen my intuition tells me that you either follow the rules or you don't, and the latter might come with serious ramifications. So, the question is, why do you support people who break American laws? I guess they don't mean anything to you if you aren't American or a green-card holder, even though you might have to face consequences for your actions. It is simply not right to say that they are hard workers as the big picture is they have broken American laws. We should all remember that. "On the other hand, in an ideal world, people all over should have the ultimate decision to chose where they want to work to allow efficient allocation of resources." Then you are living in your fantasy world as we are much far away from that ideal situation you describe. There are people out there who oppose free trade, open immigration and such. Libertarians are a weak force in America, they get(pilfer rather) but a smidgen of the American vote, and they have virtually zero chance of winning a presidential election. Even then, you cannot expect only one country to open her borders while others protect them. Let's get some teeny facts right also. You don't see Mexico opening her borders and embracing immigrants like America does, can you? So here we have double standards anyway, when one country has to open all her borders and the other opts not to. Coming here is a privilege, which only a select coterie can do, it is not a *right*. It is just like having a driver's license. Please remember that there are Nobel Prize winners who are against free trade, the allusion of which is that they are also against open immigration. So yours is a debatable issue, and not an inevitability like you are making it seem to be. I am not an economist, but I have read Stiglitz's globalization and its discontents. When you have developed countries(say, France) espousing free trade but they themselves don't practice what they preach, then you know there is something wrong with the picture. Soleil said, "What exactly is a nation? Simply put, what is the definition of a nation? As I checked in my dictionary, it sure did not match to your elucidation. " I only had to type "nation" on dictionary.com. This is what I got: "A relatively large group of people organized under a single, usually independent government; a country" When this is the definition of a nation, you know for a fact that the natives weren't living in this arrangement. America had more than a handful of tribes constantly fighting with each other, vying for power, etc, but tribes don't make a nation. It is when you have a true organization on a macro level that you have one. Sorry, but the natives do not fit that criteria. They weren't even civilized either, if you want to follow the anthropological definition of what civilization meas. I am talking about Indians who inhabited this land before it became USA, and not Mayan or Aztec civilizations, which were in different lands. "So, what western priniciples and values, traditions and customs are you referring to? What exactly were the clear set of rules" To answer, 1) Western principles of democracy 2) judeo-christian traditions and philosophy 3) the constitution....well that's all I can think of, but you catch my drift, the list goes on and on and on. It'll fill up your entire book cabinet were I to list all laws governing this land, some of which are silly, some of which are apt. "NA, aren't you dwelling into the past" The invasion of America by the Europeans is also a past event, to be terse. |
| dautari | Posted
on 26-Oct-03 11:40 AM
Nepali_angel ... are you a Republican? If not, may be you should considered joining the GOP? Perhaps, you can make a name for yourself, and for Nepal, if you go on to be the first Nepalese-American to be a governor? As it seems anyone can become a governor, if a wrestler and an actor can be governors and why can't you? I'd love to see you pummel them all at the debates ... you are good at it. (though I don't agree with you) Just in jest .. |
| mildseven | Posted
on 26-Oct-03 05:43 PM
:-) Most interesting discussion. Nepali_Angel says (s)he is not 12 years old. I belueve that but I can tell you this, Nepali Angel has never lived in the world a lot of others on this site have. She has never seen all the people working in Au Bon Pain, BK, McD, Subway, the thousands of India Restaurants across the country and all the other jobs that illegal immigrants work here. She doesnt know what it is like to work all day and come home which is made home by fellow illegal immigrants and sit around and chat while rubbing your heels cause they hurt like hell. Nepali Angel probably doesnt even understand why people work. Nepali ANgel probably thinks that people work out of boredom, not to send money home backt o the family or to pay the school bills. Nepali Angel HAS seen a few white boys work at Pizza Hut, while she went there to have a nice chatty chatty with her friends over hot pizza. Nepali Angel think that the 10% jobless Americans would work if given the chance. Isnt that f***** hillarious. Someone who knows what I am talking about (and most here seem to) tell her that how many times do u see an American coming asking for an application and how mnay illegal immigrants do. and how many times do those Americans dont work cause the hours are not suited to them. Those americans u r so fondly talking about, tose poor americans w/o jobs would have jobs if they got off their asses, and broke their habit of using food stamps and acceopting the $1000 a month from the Govt. and went to look for a job. Americans wanna go to walmart and buy cheap stuff made in India, Nepal, Macau, Indonesia, China and god knows how mnay countries nobody here knows about. Tell YOUR Bush to ask a few coporations to manufacture stuff in Amreica paying Americans $ 6.75 an hour and see what happenns to the prices. America cannot live w/o the other countries providing cheap stuff, just like america cant live without the illegal immigrants providing cheap labor. WHat did the government do after grabbing those illegal immigrants. "Those who had no criminal record were released with instructions to appear before immigration judges." WIth f****** instructions to appear re. Now I know what those non-whites in Greyhounds with tickets longer than them unfolded are doing. They all have instructions to appear infront of some judge so they are going somewhere to find another work. SO they can pay their bills, so they can make sure their families back home can keep eating. What kind of Nepali Angel is this person. WHy do we call her Nepali ANgel. Whats Angelic about him./her and more importantly what the hell is so Nepali about her??????? SO Listen here American Angel, be happy and celebratye your good luck, that god has given you but dont forget who u are, where u come from, who ur brothers and sisters are, and what has god provided them with. or atlleast try to remewmber and find out and not forget it again. Higher u fly, more ur ass hurts when u fall. |
| Soleil | Posted
on 26-Oct-03 08:49 PM
Laat ko Bhoot baat le mandaina. I should have sensed that earlier. Nepali Angel aka Bhedo aka Thugged Out whatever else his aliases were, Nepali Angel is a devil in disguise, not an angel nor a female as most of us got confused with the nickname. Boy! he sure does know how to BARK! BARK! AND BARK!!! As always, he has shown his ostentatiously pretentious nature and the hostile attitude. He likes to postulate his chauvinism. And, most importantly, he likes to hide his ugly face behind a masquerade and wait for a prey to pounce upon. He derives pleasure from aggravating people. We shall simply ignore him and put a rest to this nonsensical argument. My pledge to you all sensible readers, please do no post your comments anymore. Period. Peace!!!!!!! |
| kumar_gurung979 | Posted
on 26-Oct-03 08:57 PM
I agree with Soleil. My logfile analysis reveal that this Nepali_Angel also goes with the name in http://www.nepalsearch.com with an alias as Sundanti Sita. Further, the same name has also been tracked to info@sagarmatha.com.au and the same server located by Adam.com.au. |
| Shikhar | Posted
on 27-Oct-03 07:23 AM
Nepali Angel: If I came to this country illegally, but now am a US citizen and a law abiding citizen, am I still a "criminal" for my "illegal" past? If my only crime is staying illegally in this country, but have been an honest, hardworking, productive part of the community who is providing for his family and is giving back a lot to the community, am I still a "criminal". If I came to this country illegally "yesterday", but starting today I am a law abiding person, its that "criminal activity" a "past" that I should not bother much about? Just in the not so distant past, it was legal to lynch "a man of color" in the great US of A, now it is illegal. In the present it is illegal to "cross the border" without the paper documents, things may change. Laws and rules are fluid, they keep on changing based on time. I don't think it is a crime to seek a better life for oneself and ones' family. That's what this country was built on, and that's why this country is known as the "land of opportunity". Why is it criminal to enter this country illegally but work your butt off for a better life, but it is not criminal to take advantage of the poor and desperate labor force by outsourcing the jobs? Anyone in this country, with talent and skills that cannot be outsourced or replaced and people willing to work hard never complain about illegal immigrants taken their jobs or homes or luxuries. Only lazy, talentless, unskilled losers who wants everyone else to take care of them and someone to blame for their weaknesses blame the illegal immigrants for the short commings. PEACE |
| nepali_angel | Posted
on 27-Oct-03 02:35 PM
Sundanti Sita? I don't even know what that means. Is that supposed to be someone's name? But I am just gonna close this thread with one final thought. You guys weren't able to defeat me in this debate , so you have ended it up by pondering on what my original moniker was. Because let's face it, those that support immigration don't even know why they support it..only may be because they are illegals themselves. I am a legal immigrant...it wasn't easy for me to get here...it was a tough task....illegals just jump borders....why else would it be one of the most important issues in the California Recall race were it not because it's a big issue that Americans really want to be dealt with? Now all of a sudden, because I don't support criminals, I am the bad apple? That is so stupid. And no, I am a hardcore liberal except on immigration issues. I ripped apart soleil completely....I don't know what sort of dictionary he owns....probably for kindergarten kids..heh. Now keep guessing who I used to go as. That's all you can do... |
| dautari | Posted
on 27-Oct-03 04:45 PM
Well, I don't think anyone in here is saying that being an illegal alien here in US is the right way to go about it. What I percieve is that, everyone agrees it is wrong to be illegal but sometimes it's okay to go the wrong way. .... It's like sneaking up in the opposite direction on the one-way street in Kathmandu. |
| eNigma_too | Posted
on 27-Oct-03 09:59 PM
Nepali_angel..first of all ..you have no right to call yourself Nepali_angel..you should take up another name..something like; american_angel, considering how much grudge you have against immigrants..I stress "immigrants"..'cause legal or illegal doesn't matter in this discussion..just because you got here the easy way doesn't give you the right to bash other unlucky fellow citizen..Sad thing about America is that if somebody comes here an hour before somebody, they start considering the latter FOB !! pathetic people.. In another thread I had a heated debate with me standing for America and its ideal..I'm all for America and the principle that it stand for and you,my friend, are not a part of that by any defination. America was built on the principles of freedom, justice and equality..for all, no matter his/her political, religious or any such status/ standing. Saying all these does not necesserily imply that America should open up her border for the world, but by no mean do I agree that immigrants are a burden to this country. For god sake..America was built by immigrants..those people brave enough to leave thier homeland in search of better future and livelihood, just like people now do ...nepali_angel..I feel somehow..immigrants (legal/illegal) from europe doesn't bother you that much, right ?? The way you lightly brushed aside the atrocities metted out to the Indians by the European settlers really surprise me ..You so much hate illegal immigrants coming into America but what about the unwanted european settlers occupying Indian lands and America at the cost of innumerable deaths of natives at the first place ? The only thing that I totally stand by you is about the language ..I think that english should be the official language ..in schools /offices throughout the country. |
| Soleil | Posted
on 28-Oct-03 02:38 PM
It's ridiculous to read Nepali Angel's defensive statements. Surprisingly, he has a change of tonus, now that everybody stood against him. But, still a little adamant as he's always been, to acknowledge the fact. "Merai goruko 12 takka" seems to be his motto. That doesn't bother me a bit. Nor that I care. BTW, Nepali Angel, I don't have to win a nonsensical argument. I win by ignoring. You may perceive it any other way you please. And, I am still alive and kicking, in one piece. Nepali Angel, I don't know about others, but you failed to grasp the key factors in my arguments. I basically pointed out your disparaging remarks, and a direct threat to fellow citizens at times. Just because you acquired a legal status somehow, doesn't mean it gives you the right to bash other fellow citizens as well as those who could not maintain their status. You are not authorized by law to take necessary actions on that matter. That is the job of the INS. Lately, you wrote : " Now all of a sudden, because I don't support criminals, I am the bad apple? That is so stupid. " My question to you friend, was the issue really about criminals? I understand anyone who is offending or violating any applicable law would be considered criminal, in the court of law. Implied your theory of "immigrants" being criminals, all of us are criminals. We all have violated laws, minor or major, at plentitude of times. Your so dear Bush is a criminal too. He has violated the international law, simple as that. Let not me dwell more into that. The issue here, was about the immigrants being detained. And I completey agree with Enigma_too on the subject. He has described in details, that no further elucidation is needed. We were not arguing on the effects of immigrants, rather illegal immigrants pouring in the country. To my knowledge, what everybody didn't comprehend and appreciate was your hostile attitude. On top, you had the nerve to assume everybody is illegal and criminal without knowing the facts. Enigma_too, it's good to know that we have something in common, that we value and share the same thing, though we had some arguments earlier. Liked your positive side :) peace!!! |
| nepali_angel | Posted
on 28-Oct-03 04:30 PM
GBNC broke on me..I tried posting this message about an hour and a half ago...it just wouldn't let me. But here goes. My post was not insulting in any way, except to illegal immigrants. Here is the poll, and see for yourself what the majority of Americans want, because what counts in the end is the American public's opinions, and not anybody else's . Hmm, come to think of it, I will post a series of poll results/discussions. Here goes: http://www.npg.org/immpoll.html http://www.diversityalliance.org/docs/Poll-press.html (the one above= done during the California fracas) http://www.americanpatrol.com/POLLS/ToughIA-Approach030424USA.html http://www.parapundit.com/archives/001206.html The point is, Americans don't want immigration. "But, still a little adamant as he's always been, to acknowledge the fact" Check my polls...if you have contradictory poll results, please go ahead and link them..even if there are some that condradicts some of the links I posted, they would only be a small number. ". Just because you acquired a legal status somehow, doesn't mean it gives you the right to bash other fellow citizens as well as those who could not maintain their status" I wish you would be more explicit. If you want to quote me on that, you are welcome. I have not bashed fellow citizens. It is the illegals that I am only worried about. I am for immigration, but it has to be the *legal* way. This is what most Americans feel, as evidenced by the polls I posted. "Implied your theory of "immigrants" being criminals, all of us are criminals. We all have violated laws, minor or major, at plentitude of times" Had you only read my post above, you would have known that my rejoinder to your assertion was already presented. To repeat, there are different levels of transgressions...some aren't that malignant, but some are. For instance, nobody in his sane mind would think that killing a fellow human is an equal crime to robbing a store. You don't get executed for robbing a store, but you might be if you kill someone. I don't think the logic here is valid, with all due respect. " On top, you had the nerve to assume everybody is illegal and criminal without knowing the facts. " Oh then, you don't like my jingoistic rhetoric, do you? Yes, we are talking about illegal immigration, and not legal immigration. How many times do I have to repeat this fact? Now for Engigma_too's post: "..just because you got here the easy way doesn't give you the right to bash other unlucky fellow citizen" Oh? How is it easy to get in here? Do you think all that apply here get in easily without having to fight over it? The rate of immigration is of course lower than the rate of people who apply..out of thousands and thousands that apply, only a few get selected for immigration. Is this what you call easy??? On the other hand, it is a much easier way to come here as a student and stay even after the visa expires. I don't care whether they are hard workers or not...but what I do care about is that they are violating American laws. "Saying all these does not necesserily imply that America should open up her border for the world, but by no mean do I agree that immigrants are a burden to this country" Since I cannot persuade you by mere talk alone, I am going to provide you with a link. Read it and digest it... As written in the article, immigration costs American born individuals $133 billion/year in job losses. http://www.sqlife.org/evansarticle.htm "You so much hate illegal immigrants coming into America but what about the unwanted european settlers occupying Indian lands and America at the cost of innumerable deaths of natives at the first place ? " I already answered this question, you know. Read one of my posts above. "immigrants (legal/illegal) from europe doesn't bother you that much, right ?? " Absolutely bothers me. I oppose illegal immigration of **ANY** kind. Why would I not be bothered by illegals from Europe? Please don't make any such suppositions. If anybody really wants to persuade me, then back it up with sources. |
| sankaa | Posted
on 28-Oct-03 05:53 PM
On last friday, I told nepali angel that i will post a message for her next day. I even had a long message ready to post the next day then a thought crossed my mind. I felt like, hey what am I doing here, Nepali angel's brain has been washed by hypocorism for years and she wouldn't listen to me no matter what I say. Like Soleil said up there I decided that I dont need to win the nonsensical argument. It is already obvious to many of the educated and intellectual Nepalese and Nepalis- Americans in here that she yaps yaps yaps like a little kid and makes baseless arguments and uses invalid claims. If I play you said I said game with Nepali anglel than I will grow old and die out of frustration. Maybe it will be easy to communicate with a rock than to a person who is taught by hypocrites and whose mind is flooded by bogus craps. So I am just going to focus on a very small portion of her long bogus clams on anti immigration. Nepali angel in her earlier message which was addressed to me on supporting her wise pilgrims said: Don't confuse the Spanish way with the Anglo-Saxon way. We are talking about America here, not some stupid under-developed Latin American country. The Anglo-Saxons LEGALLY bought lands from the natives, the result of which was the natives were pushed further and further. Whilst the Anglos chose land, which in the longrun proved to be a better choice, the Spaniards went for gold. The latter group inevitably was left behind and couldn't compete with the prescient Anglos in terms of power, economy and influence. So, your mistake here was that you lumped all Europeans into one pot, so to speak. à Nepali angel, I was actually going to go to my local library to dig some sources but I did some basic search on google, and within seconds I found several sources which directly and clearly explain that actually new immigrants at that time to usa DID circulated the smallpox and used it as a biological weapon back in those days. Please see the following links: Source #1 http://www.acsh.org/forum/newsflash/smallpox.html Second paragraph on the article which was published on wall street journal on 2002 explains that Smallpox was used in usa as biological weapons against American Indian. Source #2 http://nsweb.nursingspectrum.com/ce/ce325.htm Under the heading, Smallpox a deadly virus the following lines makes it clear that it was indeed used in the USA to kill Native Americans at that time: It had also spread to the American colonies, and Europeans used it as a biological weapon against American Indians. Historic documents verify that British forces gave blankets used by people infected with smallpox to intentionally transmit the virus to the Native Americans.2 And they legally purchased the land? Lol.. haha yeah right? Purchased with what blankets?? Hmmmmmmm and who did the land valuation& you? Lol Nepali angel..youre funny as hell. Nepali Angel, I do not have any hatred feeling towards anyone. I also, love this country and respect the laws. However, immigration laws are very controversial subject matter to observe. Illegal immigrants work hard just like legal immigrants and they are just trying to survive. Lots of ignorant people and some evil people believe that since justice allows them to be against illegal people they can treat them inhumanly. They are the same people who circulated the blankets, they are the same people who raped and killed black slaves, they are the same people who like to kill and torture their fellow human beings. Those people have no citizenship, no color, no caste; they are children of evil. They can be anywhere. If you are one of them then, Im sorry to you and this world for having you. If you are not then please talk to an economist teacher in a good University and ask him why cheap labor does helps America in terms of Comparatives Advantages of trade. The burden to educate you is on yourself- not me. So please quit listening to those racist radio talk programs if you are and listen to some educated people who can actually think. with regards, Sankaa |