| Username |
Post |
| Oz Guy |
Posted
on 24-Oct-03 12:34 AM
With due respect to all who have contributed to this topic- I have to say it is a pity we Nepalese never seem to grow out of our typical "Nepalipan". It should be a matter of pride to know that some Nepalese out there is making a name of himself and is so successful in creating a business empire with some potential to actually do something for home country. And what is our impression first hand?? We are in a state of denial, sceptical and start to do our own little investigation whether it may be as simple as google search. C'mn guys! I thought you had enough things to keep yourself busy in wonderful Amrika of yours and stop making some pre-mature responses.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but give the benefit of doubt. I think there are enough authorities to check the authenticity of the claims made. The reason he might be so filthy rich and successful is probably he doesn't indulge in things like we do and probably is actually out there doing something creative right now as we are reading this than whining about things like most of us do.
Take a break, chill out.. !!
|
| Arnico |
Posted
on 24-Oct-03 02:04 AM
Oz guy, the point of doing a google search on a suppodly famous person is to learn more about him... yes so as to be able to celebrate the successes of a compatriot, and to contemplate what he may be planning for Nepal in the future. BUT if a google search turns up nothing, even despite his claims of international importance, then there is room for suspicion... either there is a conspiracy at google to hide links (easy to test by trying a different search engine), OR... something about his claims don't add up.
As for healthy skepticism about tall stories being part of Nepalipan... I sure hope so! I would like to think that Nepalipan includes being alert, checking facts, and not succumbing to baseless claims and false hopes, especially in these times when hopes are so few and far between.
|
| Rusty |
Posted
on 24-Oct-03 07:33 AM
Dr. Bhattarai could be an affluent person, but I think he must a bragger or a big time show-off person, who might be trying to cheat Nepalese or other nationals with his fiddle stick.
Believing Prateek Pradhan as a good journalist, Dr. Bhattarai's completely lied to this media, proclaiming himself a billionaire, a rare breed on this earth. Mr. Pradhan, however, wrote and published this article without any basis or without knowing any facts behind the veil.
Yes, as Arnico said, "the point of doing a google search on a suppodly famous person is to learn more about him." The article mentions that he knows President Bush and friend of Bill Clinton. He's also denied the interview with Lary King. Holy cow!! I want to know more about this "infamous" billionaire by using any means of search engine. Is that the part of leg pulling?? I would be proud if you think I am being typical "Nepalian":)
Anyway, the bottom line is that by googling(!!) his name, as Arnico said, we're being wise and we're ensuring we're getting right information to augment our ability to discern facts. You should know that we're not that gullible to believe every single swaggers.....
|
| katmandude |
Posted
on 24-Oct-03 09:56 AM
Checking facts is not just a Nepalipan, it's a "Universalpan". When someone claims to be a billionaire or claims to discover cure for AIDS or cancer, whether he/she is an American, British, Indian, Mangolian, African, his/her claims will be scrutinized by public.
Just because he is a Nepali, does not mean we should show blind faith and believe whatever he claims, espcecially when there are glaring holes in teh story. For heaven's sake, no one has been able to find online the name of the company he claims to own. Are we supposed to believe that a company run by a billionaire is yet to have a website?
This itself is a huge red flag and right now as far as his story about being billionair is concerned, 2+2 is not adding up to be 4.
We need to celebrate the real successes of our fellow Nepalese, not the fake ones. i still give him benefit of doubt but I still have to see a believable proof.
|
| Kumar Prasad Upadhyay |
Posted
on 24-Oct-03 09:59 PM
O G:
Since you seem to be so disturbed by our "Nepali attitude" of not being able to tolerate another Nepali's progress and achievement, why don't you help us out by coming up with facts and information which might clear, once and for all, any doubts about RB's background, his actual net worth, his line of business etc.
I am willing to give you the benefit of doubt because as of now I don't suspect for a second that you are trying to defend someone knowing that the someone that you are defending is a con man. I trust you believe that RB is a man of real substance who made his fortune through legitimate legal means. But I am sure you recognize, there are so many unanswered questions--in fact, there is hardly any question that has been answered--about this self proclaimed billionaire, and any person of even less than average intelligence, like myself, would want more facts on the table before s/he can start toasting in honour of RB's success.
If you genuinely believe he is not a con man, as I am now very close to concluding, why don't you help us with the facts.
If he is a billionaire, why isn't he on the Forbes or any other billionaire list?
Why don't we get anything about this man on the web even after trying different search engines? Why don't we get anything about the foundation that he supposedly heads?
What line of business is this billionaire (in dollar terms) in and what are the names of his companies?
Why does he feature on that list of potential fraudsters who mislead potential investors with wrong information about investment opportunities (something that Bhunte?? dug up in the other thread)?
I am personally amazed by the number of people that I know closely who seem to have one or the other information about this person. I have during the last few days met and talked to people who know this person from his high school days at JP, I have met people who were his contemporaries at college during his BA days and question if he even completed his BA from TU (so I have stopped referring to him as "Dr." RB), I have met people who were taken to expensive Kathmandu restaurants by BR and he disappeared before the bill arrived.
I have also met people who know for fact that the reason he was arrested by Bishesh Prahari in the late 2030s was not because he used the fax from Agriculture Development Bank but because he forged land documents to take out loans from the Bank, and I have met people who knew RB's father Prof. Bhattarai was a dejected, frustrated, unhappy old man at the time of his death--all because of the great deeds of his son.
I am sure people who have found time to post their thoughts on the other thread did so because they too have heard many of the stories about this man, and therefore are inclined to suspect.
Of course, he may have changed. Of course, he seems to have made a lot of money. (By the way, I have also heard of him being in the process of buying houses for his three daughters, each in the region of Rs 10 million!)
But the point is not if he has a lot of money. The point is, is he a billionaire in dollar terms that he claims he is. And, if he in fact is, did he make the money through legitimate means or by ripping people off through shady deals.
If you think raising such questions is whining, you are most welcome to do so..
KPU
|
| Chordaku420 |
Posted
on 24-Oct-03 10:09 PM
Com'on man,
Yao are none but whoochi mama.
|
| yatree |
Posted
on 24-Oct-03 11:23 PM
Kumar ji,
Me no Bhunte. I want to have a few Bhunte and Punte of my own. At this point, I have one big Bhunte. And that's enough. :)
I don't care if he is filthy rich. The way he seems to have amassed the wealth is of a little concern. But most of the khane-piune in Nepal have accumulated wealth in the similar manner. Difference is in the degree. Big charlatan and a little one.
The people on the fraud list are real. One can pick any person in the list from the U.S. and do a Google. You will see the criminal history. The Google may not have data from the counties like Spain. Tall tales of being a Parter, President, CEO, and Founder of two of the largest foundations in the world should give you a big hint. He is currently building TWENTY hospitals in Indonesia! Hmmmm.
I am concerned that he may con the Nepalis govt. and unsuspecting people from Nepal. Just keep your eyes and ears open. He may take money from Nepalis and laugh all the way to ... Spain.
|
| Bhunte |
Posted
on 25-Oct-03 01:39 AM
Oh my god! Yatree, r you ok? What kind of nightmare are you having?...eheheh
anyway, happy tihar!
|
| OZ Guy |
Posted
on 25-Oct-03 02:25 AM
KP, I was just making a very simple statement. Truth will come out sooner or later. I am not for or against the claims of this "billiionaire". It might not be fair enough to draw conclusions from accusations floating in this forum without the accused having the opportunity to defend his claims and credibility. Frankly, I am also having difficulty in buying such stories which looks bit like fairy tale. Having said that, I am also not prepared to go to the extent of declaring this man as a liar, con etc. just as yet. Not finding a name in search engines is not a proof itself of the accused not having the credibility.
This whole saga does have a lot of mysterious twists, but I think the best would be to be patient for the true story to come out. I am sure if he is having joint ventures etc in Nepal, concerned authority will take approriate actions to have background checks. If somebody comes to Nepal and says he is going to invest in building three hospitals for the service of Nepalese, I do not think that ought to raise hell lot of eyebrows. The point whether he is really a billionaire or not doesn't really bother me honestly.
|
| kumar_gurung979 |
Posted
on 25-Oct-03 03:57 PM
Namaste KPU,
How is life my long lost friend ? I think we did meet together at Anil Upadhya's house long long time ago.
You are correct that Rassedra was always a high flying wheeling and dealing dreamer. I remeber that his favorite book was the "Carpet Bagger" written by another od Seldon contemporary. In fact, Rassendra dreamt of being a Nepali James Bond.
He was always making appoinments with Soviet Embassy, Libyan Embassy and many many embassies. He alwyas declared to be the son of the Royal Priest of Nepal. Then again, he was seen amidst Kayur SJB Rana, Dhirendra and Nir Shah, SK and DK Singh and much of the elites of Nepalese business world.
One time he came to me to say that he was going to ship Uranium ore of India to China. He wanted me to carry some lead lined small drums to the Chinese embassy now home to the Sakya clan. I refused as offered me few thousand rupees. I asked my cousin Udaya Gurung of TU and the advise came not to get involved in these things.
It is no doubt that he used his well known father's name for infamy.
I mean the point raised by OG is rather irrational.
You and me know what the implications are about this man trying to gain access to power in Nepal arising instability. The bottomline is his every moves should be watched by authorities. In the same time a society must be tolerant as he has committed no crime at this moment. We all should allow to make him make a living and should not defame him as he stays in the 5 star hotel.
|
| Kumar Prasad Upadhyay |
Posted
on 25-Oct-03 09:37 PM
O G:
I think we agree on most issues. I can also respect the fact that you are not really interested in knowing if he is a billionaire. Fair enough. But allow us--skeptics of Sajhapur--to question if what he is saying about himself is true.
As far as the benefit of the doubt goes, I agree that we should have more information about the person before we start labeling him a con man. But a much higher burden lies on the man to prove that whatever he told the unsuspecting journalists from Kantipur Publications and Kantipur TV are in fact true. I mean, if an individual goes public and says he is a billionaire but fails to offer anything other than that to prove his net worth, it is fair for us to start suspecting exactly what this person is all about.
KPU
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 26-Oct-03 05:04 PM
KPU wrote:
"But a much higher burden lies on the man to prove that whatever he told the unsuspecting journalists from Kantipur Publications and Kantipur TV are in fact true."
No.
The whole idea of "unsuspecting journalists" is an oxymoron and even insulting to us readers who deserve to be served by not-easily-impressed journalists.
I, for one, have NEVER studied journalism and never will, but even I can tell you that skepticism is the hallmark of any good journalist. At a minimum, you don't base
your potential controversial front-page story ENTIRELY on what one person said
about himself, without bothering to find further corroborative or contradictory
evidence from other sources.
I mean, as a journalist or a media house, if you can't report the verifiable truth on the basis of which the public comes to trust you, why not change career and write fiction instead? Why call yourself a journalist or a media house and violate readers' trust in
your what you say?
Let's face it: Most of us would NOT have heard of this character and his alleged one billion dollars had it not been for Kantipur Publications, which, one assumes, is staffed by professionals and not high school drop-outs.
The irony here is that one need not even be an "unsuspecting journalist" to see that there were/are just too many glaring holes in RB's fantastic rags-to-riches story.
And so, given this, I would say that the burden of proof lies on Kantipur Publications to explain to us -- the readers and advertizers -- why it served us such a story which seems to have been based more on sensation than on truth.
I would say that in the face of mounting public skepticism about the veracity of the story, Kantipur should conduct its own throrough investigation (first, on how such a story even appeared in print and on TV without being properly vetted, and, second,
on RB's background), and report the truth to us -- readers and advertizers -- and put the matter behind once and for all.
Anything less would be be an act of moral cowardice and would only go on to show how khttam things really are at Kantipur Publications, despite there being some of Nepal's best journalists.
Making mistakes, let us not forget, is a part of life, and mistakes are nothing to be ashamed of, if one learns from them, even if it that means by making public anouncements.
********
As for RB, I think his colorful story should be turned into a Kollywood movie under the banner of Nakhara Productions . . . starring Rajesh Hamal as RB, Karishma Manandhar as Poonam Singh, Nir Shah as that Sultan, Harihar Sharma as RB's father, and Mithilia Sharma as RB's long-suffering wife.
********
oohi
"a well-wisher of Kantipur, but exasperated by how it, as an organization, seems to have lost its way in the last two years"
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| confused |
Posted
on 26-Oct-03 05:21 PM
As for RB, I think his colorful story should be turned into a Kollywood movie under the banner of Nakhara Productions . . . starring Rajesh Hamal as RB, Karishma Manandhar as Poonam Singh, Nir Shah as that Sultan, Harihar Sharma as RB's father, and Mithilia Sharma as RB's long-suffering wife.
hahah hasayoooo ni
|
| kumar_gurung979 |
Posted
on 26-Oct-03 05:56 PM
I admire KPU for being a graet director of proposed Nepali movie. I think this should be in the Veritae genre of documentary making. This is what Flinders University is good at in Screen Studies. The product of this remarkable place is the world famous director, who contributed to Shine and Snow Falling in Cedars.
Why is this fuss if one is not a journalist ?
A journalist can present a story in anyway possible ! This is the true hallmark of a good revenue generating journalist. This is what I have gone to learn in another good University of South Australia. There in Magill Campus the School of Journalism is excellent.
I mean in UK, recently the Butler Burel tells the kiss and tell story of Diana. People can call him being disloyal and much more. The essence of the story is, who knows what the truth is ?
The professionalism of the journalism is to present the story in a well balanced way and in the best of the circumstances that may be in the public interest. After all in a true democracy the public are the judge and jury. They do not need some one to say that journalist has missed the point. Mind your own business and the world will filter and digest what is true or falsity! For no reason one need not be a JANATA HALDAR tantamount to being in this same Nepali movie a MAHA KHALA NAYAK. This is my moot point the case in point of the argument and rational logic. KPU's analysis is spot on and others now want to take over as Father of Nepalese public affairs in determining who is true or false character to do business in Nepal.
Reminds me a song that said "Dhuru dhuru narou Nepal Aama, ma timi lai saidhain bachaunchu."
Okay, KPU there are really great Nepali saputs who want to sing songs for the graetness of Nepal and another song that comes to mind is "Hamro Raja hawai jahaj udaun...pardeshko raja supari gudaune." The moral of this song is that Nepali saputs are being active like a a cane toad in a shallow pond, when there are vast lakes for being active.
Have a vision beyond one man. Please do not waste your time to demonstarte whether RB is a robber or baron. We already knew him before you were even born. You do not have to prove to us anything. Get a life and a good wife !
|
| Kumar Prasad Upadhyay |
Posted
on 27-Oct-03 08:38 AM
Ashu-ji:
When I said there is a higher burden on RB to prove whatever he said about himself, I was not saying or implying that the Kantipur journalists, who unsuspectingly carried his story, should not be held responsible for a major lapse on their part.
What I meant, and I think you get the same message if you read my entire posting, is this: While we--as readers--should give RB the benefit of doubt, and try to get more information about him, before concluding that he is a con man, there is a much higher burden on him to prove that whatever he asserted about himself is true.
I was not talking about the relative burdens of the journalists and RB and I did not mean RB's burden is higher than that of the journalists. I was talking about our freedom--yours and mine--to draw conclusions about him based on what he has said about himself, and what has been said about him by others, and our obligation to give him the benefit of doubt until more facts come out. And it was in that context that I said that while we may have an obligation to give him the benefit of doubt, the burden is much higher on him.
As far as the burden on the journalists goes, I agree with much of your sentiments. I have no doubt in my mind--as someone who, like you, never studied journalism--that they owe a big explanation to their readers. At the same time, I also think RB owes an explanation to the Nepali public and offer us information that substantiate his claims. I don't think he can demand a complete exoneration for his liability to explain his real position, his net worth, his line of business etc merely because he was successful at convincing some unsuspecting journalists about himself.
I use the expression unsuspecting journalists without the quotation marks because I am not sure, as you are, that qualifying the word journalists with unsuspecting makes the expression an oxymoron. I think we use the word journalist not necessarily to mean that the journalist in question has all the qualities that, based on somebody's value judgement, is necessary in a good journalist.
Journalists come in all shades--there are those who are good; and others who are yellow. The word journalist is used to refer to anybody and everybody who meets a few basic technical requirements for being referred to as one--like someone writing a fortnightly opinion piece for Nepali Times would, in my view, meet the technical requirement of being called a journalist. Now, if that person is trained as an economist, and has a degree in Economics, that individual also qualifies to be called an economist. Of course, there is no value judgment in either of the two references discussed above. Nothing is being said about the professional competence or incompetence of the economist-journalist in question.
If I were to apply the criteria just referred to, I think I can refer to you as a journalist and an economist because you meet the requirements, but that does not say anything about your suspecting nature (as a journalist) or about your ability (as an economist) to analyse and project the macro-economic impact of allowing special forex facilities to non-resident Nepalis.
KPU
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 27-Oct-03 05:58 PM
KPU,
What I have said so far is that RB' story does not seem to add up. Whether this not adding up makes him a con man or not, I don't know, and I have not referred to him as such.
[I have no problem believing that RB may have a few millions here and there -- in dollar terms -- but it's increasingly clear that he is not a 'dollar billionaire' in any legitimate sense of that word, as reported by Kantipur media outlets.]
Sure, yes, I would like to know more about him, but I don't think RB has any obligation to satisfy our curiosity IN PUBLIC.
RB, let's be clear, is NOT a public figure and is not running for public office. His were PRIVATE assertions that were uncritically carried by a major media house in Nepal,
which has since stopped doing any follow-up on the billionaire story.
Look, I as a citizen can live with the fact that RB has utter disregard for the truth as long as his disregard forthe truth does not cause public harm. Here, I join Yatri in issuing an warning to others to be careful about exploring any investment opportunity with RB.
But I find it hard to understand why an institution such as Kantipur Publications -- whose currency is in fact public trust -- seems to think that it can get away reporting lies, half-truths and unverifiable truth. I am not talking about individual journalists here, KPU. I am talking about the institution itself.
Though I am not a lawyer, let me argue that the burden of proof lies more on the Kantipur Publications by way of an analogy.
When Jason Blair was SUSPECTED of plagiarizing many of his reports, his employer The New York Times assembled a dozen other reporters to spend a few days to look into Blair's published reports.
After a thorough investigation, NYT concluded that Blair had inded copied stuff off other publications without attribution and had violated the readers' trust. NYT then issued a detailed front-page mea culpa. It also fired Blair and the ensuing soul-searching there (re: how can the senior managers could have been so stupid to let such egregious blunders go undetected?) led to the resginations of NYT's then hard-charging Managing Editor.
In this instance, your logic, KPU, would have said: The burden of proof lies on Jason Blair to prove that he did NOT engage in plagiarizism!!
Coming back to the story, more than RB's credibility, it's Kantipur's credibility that is at stake here. This is my point. Again this is NOT about singling out any partclar journalist.
As a well-wisher of Kantipur, I wish it would take a hard look at itself, figure out how such a story got past its collective skepticism, and look for ways to not cheapen the public trust that it has earned over the years. That's all.
************
As for my being a journalist-economist, well, I don't know what to say. But I do admit
to being strongly and intellectually influenced by Paul Krugman -- a Princeton economist, a future Nobel Prize winner and an NYT columnist.
In Nepal, I have concluded that writing in English for an elite audience is good, but that in coming years, in terms of policy-making and so forth, the greatest debates/battles will be take place on the streets, away from the environs of the Nepali Times-reading crowd.
And the challenge will be to convince -- honestly and compellingly, patiently over and over again and even emotionally -- the non-English-speaking people . . . the doubters, the skeptics, the communists and the Marxists . . . the Leftists, the pro-poor folks and so on . . . to convince them that free markets with transparent and enforceable rules do in fact work to serve most of their interests. The challenge wll be to learn from the experiences of other countries, and contextualize the best experiences to Nepal's
needs.
My small step to take up that challenge is to start publishing a monthly piece in simple, clear and vigorous Nepali language for Himal Khabar Patrika, starting with the issue
that comes out this week. :-)
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| bhunte |
Posted
on 27-Oct-03 06:09 PM
Why Kantipur/Ktm Post not writing anything about RB?
|
| Tare Maam |
Posted
on 28-Oct-03 12:11 PM
I would be interested to know why ashu is so "strongly and intellectually influenced" by Paul Krugman.
|
