| Username |
Post |
| Biswo |
Posted
on 10-Jul-01 02:48 PM
Trailokyaji:
Since the thread was changed, I thought we might need a new
thread. So, here we go.
I think if private sectors want to run a Nepal Bhaashaa in
Kathmandu, that is perfectly fine. Also, depending on the number
of students enrolled, the government can provide rational
economic assistance to those schools. Government, afterall, has
provided 11 crore rupees to aushadhiupachaar of corrupt leaders
and their wives, why can't it provide to a better cause?
I haven't asked for dismantling of current schools.The public
schools can function in their current shape. So, other people
from other community can't be affected.
When it is time to take standard test like SLC etc, the government
can provide the same questions translated in Nepal Bhaashaa.So,
the overall cost for the government will be minimum.
If it can appease a few rebels, it is a feasible solution.
|
| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 11-Jul-01 12:45 AM
Biswoji,
I still don't think it will be a good idea for the government to pitch in money for Nepal Bhasa schools, because, Newari isn't the only language that is spoken in Nepal.
Also, I don't think it will be a good idea to translate the SLC tests into newari. If they do that, then they would have to translate IA/BA/MA everything into Newari and imagine what those graduates would end up in? So, the present system of nepali and angreji is the best.
Trailokya
|
| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 11-Jul-01 01:18 AM
Biswoji,
I forgot to mention one important fact on my last post;
Students can take newari as one of their optional subjects in the SLC test, and in IA and BA.
Plus, Biswo Bhasa Campus offeres a newari course for everyone interested in learning newari. So, the governmnet is, in fact spending money in preserving Newari than any other language.
Trailokya
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 11-Jul-01 01:56 AM
Trailokyaji:
My point is not to fund all the resources to minority languages,
but to provide funds to the private sector initiatives. For
example, we can set aside 11 crore rupees per year for that
purpose(11 crore,because that was what the govt paid last year
to leaders and other freaks in the name of aushadhiupachaar).
Depending on the number of students in a school, government can
provide limited resources to the privately funded schools.So,
if people want Nepal Bhaashaa/Gurung Bhaashaa etc schools, they
first start it by themselves. If there are 100 students, then
the government can provide such schools a sum of money(eg 2 lakh).
Next year, if the enrollment goes up to 200, may be govt should
give them 5 lakh. If it goes down to 100, it will be 1 lakh.
If a person can express his knowledge better in his mother
language, then he should be considered knowledgeable. I think
we can explore the possibility(availability of experts in the
particular languages etc.) of having question papers in minority
languages.I don't think it will be expensive.
Having a talent minority community always help the majority
community.If we want a prosperous Nepal, we can't do it without
having prosperous women(50%) or nonBaahunChetri (70%). Rather
than containing their talent in the straitjacket of language or
sex, we need to encourage them to further their knowledge in
whatever medium they can.
It is my point only. Although I understand your concern that it
can go beyond the limit where it is controllable.
------------**************---------------*****************
I also read with avid interest your next installment on China
stay. I find it very interesting because I know all those places.
They were so close to me for five full years.
I am so sure I know the Nepali who was talking with you in the
bar.Your comment about the DJ is also very accurate. Man, I
think the DJs were fun. They were primarily employed because
Chinese thought black people were more knowledgeable in music. See
how all those people were keeping Bob Marley type hair.They
all would like you to believe Bob Marley is the only truth of
this earth:-)
Hope to read the third part soon.
|
| the real ashu |
Posted
on 11-Jul-01 02:48 AM
Biswo wrote:
>My point is not to fund all the resources to
>minority languages,
>but to provide funds to the private sector
>initiatives.
Since you bring up the 'private sector'
(my area of work in Nepal), let's go
through this reasoning, and see if this is
applicable to the language issue.
OK, let's say that you are the only person
in the world with a telephone (connection).
With that, we can say that that the phone is
pretty much useless to you.
Why?
Because who would you call?
(Remember, in this thought experiment,
no one else has a phone!)
But as soon as there is another person with
a phone, the value of your phone to you
goes up.
How?
Now, you can call that second
person, and thus make use of your phone.
By this logic, as more and more people
get their own telephones (i.e. join
the network, so to speak), the value of
your phone goes even HIGHER to you because,
well, you can call more and more people.
And that phone NOT only becomes valuable
to you, having it also becomes essential.
And on and on.
And so, whether you have an email
address, a fax number and so on,
having those in and of themselves
is NOT of any value if there is no
'critical mass' of people out there
for you to make use of your email
address, fax number and so on.
Now, let's put together Suman Pradhan's
point and this 'phone ko logic'.
All things being equal, a rational Nepali
wanting to learn a language (let's say,
any language!) would choose to learn
a language with a larger network base.
And so, compared to Sanskrit, Newari has a larger
network base in Nepal (i.e. you can talk
to more people using Newari, especially in
Kirtipur, Bhakatapur, Patan and parts of Kathmandu
than you can with Sanskrit).
And compared to Newari, Nepali has a larger
network base in Nepal (i.e. you can talk
to more people using Nepali than Newari).
And compared to Nepali, English has a larger
network base in the world (i.e. you can talk
to more people using English than Nepali . . .
out of Nepal).
Putting all of these together: Let's see
the dilemma of ethnic, urban Newari parents
with a six-year-old daughter. They want the
daughter to have to have the best of opportunities
(i.e. have larger networks).
Despite their pride on being Newars and their
love for Newari language and all that, what are
they likely to choose?
Well, they are likely to enrol their daughter
into (i.e. pay for) a school that teaches
in Nepali and English.
My point is this: emotionalism aside, the use
of any language (whether it's Tharu or a computer
language) is driven by market forces.
These forces, alas, are NOT equal-opportunity
forces. They do favor some languages over others.
And those not favored by the market forces lose out,
and that's life. (But more on strategies of
language preservation in my other posting.)
(I notice that there are not too many Newari Shakya
traders in Kathmandu these days who can speak
fluent Tibetan; 50 years ago, fluency in Tibetan
was required for their trading success!)
Sure, pride for one's language is always a good
thing to have . . . but economics exerts a strong
influence on what languages become widely-used,
and what are doomed to remain of interest ONLY
to anthropologists and lingusts.
oohi
ashu
|
| mangal |
Posted
on 11-Jul-01 07:09 AM
>My point is this: emotionalism aside, the
>use
>of any language (whether it's Tharu or a
>computer
>language) is driven by market forces.
>
>These forces, alas, are NOT equal-
>opportunity
>forces. They do favor some languages over
>others.
>And those not favored by the market forces
>lose out,
>and that's life. (But more on strategies of
>language preservation in my other posting.)
Perhaps it is not always the market force. If it were really the market force alone working, the newari language would have been still a major language in the valley. After all, wasn't it the language perhaps spoken by 95% of population then (when Prithbi Narayan Shah came to KTM) and hence had a better use, that is until the Nepali language was forced on ? Shouldn't the language spoken by few rulers and bhardars instead have disappeared? But it did not. Why? Because, it was not the market force that was working. It was a result of a systematic work to contain and to destroy the newari language through out past two centuries. As for example, just look around how the name of cities in valley were changed from Newari to Nepali, for example, from Yen, Yala, Khope to Kathmandu, Lalitpour and Bhaktapur! People were even forced to change their surname, for example, from Tamo to Tamrakar, from Saimi to Manandhar!!
|
| TP |
Posted
on 11-Jul-01 07:33 AM
What is the second most spoken language in Nepal? And what is the third?
|
| Reetu |
Posted
on 11-Jul-01 07:55 AM
Mr. T. Aryal,
Your voice seems ridiculous, we all Nepalese people do not have any difference regarding our basic constitutional right. We are the people of sovereign nation. We love our sovereignty as well as our democratic constitution.
Here is a question to you that how do you know that Biswo Basha Campus offers the "Nepal Bhasha" ? I had been in that campus. I did not see any Nepal Bhasa Student in that campus. I had been very close to the Student's union in that campus. Please, don't try to show your entire nature to the people of sovereign and democratic nation.
Reetu...
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 11-Jul-01 03:44 PM
Ashu:
That is exactly my point.
That even if private sector is allowed to have minority schools,
and government promises funding(limited) for them, they aren't
likely to get many more students.Eventhough, I would love to see
more Nepali preserving their own language and culture, that is
exactly what is gonna happen.
So, what is there to be afraid of for government and majority
community?
Let the minority run their schools.
Madarsa are the example. Suman Pradhanji perhaps know more about
madarsa of Birgunj also. May be recent conflict between India
Pakistan may have changed the tone of those schools, the Madarsaa
in Nepal are never anti-Nepal. Also, Madarsaa is not the school
where rich and future-conscious Moslems send their kids.In Nepal,
just like Gumbaas are not threat to Hindus, and Sanskrit schools
are not threat to other religious communities, Madarsaas are also
not threat to Nepalis.
If market drives the society, let it be so. But let's not false
assumptions and communal hegemony(or hatred) drive the society.
|
| Racist |
Posted
on 11-Jul-01 05:07 PM
Economics and cultural heritage
Its like apples and oranges
If we start doing everything in terms of economics..
We would definately lose our heritage. be it Bahun, chetri or newar. I disagree with OOOOhi. The Mtv generation is probably the largest consumer group out there now. Would you like to have their cultural value in KTM ??? Then might as well call Nepal MTV country. Therefore your theory does not work.
The Indian cinema effect is another good example. Would you like to identified as an Indian or a Nepali???
Newars do want their kids to go to the best schools at the same time would like to preserve their heritage as well. But thanks to the govt. we have not been able to do so.
|
| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 11-Jul-01 11:53 PM
Here is a question to you that how do you know that Biswo Basha Campus offers the "Nepal Bhasha" ? I had been in that campus. I did not see any Nepal Bhasa Student in that campus. I had been very close to the Student's union in that campus. Please, don't try to show your entire nature to the people of sovereign and democratic nation.
ReetuJYU, go check the syllabus of Biswa Bhasa Campus. They do offer Newari and TU has a master's program in newari. Now, don't try to twist the facts. I don't know when/where/what student union you were close to, and have no interest whatsoever in that. Anyway, for future reference, check your fatcs.
Trailokya
You haven't even heard me speaking, so how can my voice sound ridiculous?
|
| Reetu |
Posted
on 12-Jul-01 07:57 AM
Hi T. Aryal,
We have been discussing on the web but it has not been a week nevertheless I feel great to discuss with you and others.
Obviously, I do not take it personally and hopefully you do not tend to do so.
>ReetuJYU, go check the syllabus of Biswa
>Bhasa Campus. They do offer Newari and TU
>has a master's program in newari. Now, don't
>try to twist the facts. I don't know when/
>where/what student union you were close to,
>and have no interest whatsoever in that.
>Anyway, for future reference, check your
>fatcs.
You do not have to tell us what TU offers basically in the Humanities and Social Sciences.
But, my concern is on "Biswo Bhasha Cmapus". Can you provide such syllabus of Nepal Bhasha in Biswo Bhasha Campus? Can you tell me what Biswo Bhasha Campus and whole TU colleges have differences? Please do not pretend simply, do research then try to confront with someone.
>You haven't even heard me speaking, so how
>can my voice sound ridiculous?
It is a silly question. Nothing to say on it because we are communicating on the web, not speaking person to person. The question itself is ridiculous.
Reetu...
|
| Janta |
Posted
on 13-Jul-01 05:36 PM
Hey Racist,
>Economics and cultural heritage
>Its like apples and oranges
I did not understand it. Could you please explain it for me?
The Indian cinema effect is another good
>example. Would you like to identified as an
>Indian or a Nepali???
oohi, you don't have answer for this. why don't use "market force" for it?
>Newars do want their kids to go to the best
>schools at the same time would like to
>preserve their heritage as well?
Many Newars are doing good job for Nepal. They are great for Nepal and their language as well as culture. ANA has proved it recently what culture has a splendid value for the community. Do bahuns have any such "Culture" except doing discriminatin?
Cheers %%%%%%%%//////$$$$$$$%%%%%%%
|
| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 14-Jul-01 12:00 AM
>Hi T. Aryal,
>
>We have been discussing on the web but it
>has not been a week nevertheless I feel
>great to discuss with you and others.
>
>Obviously, I do not take it personally and
>hopefully you do not tend to do so.
>
>
>You do not have to tell us what TU offers
>basically in the Humanities and Social
>Sciences.
>
>But, my concern is on "Biswo Bhasha Cmapus".
>Can you provide such syllabus of Nepal
>Bhasha in Biswo Bhasha Campus? Can you tell
>me what Biswo Bhasha Campus and whole TU
>colleges have differences? Please do not
>pretend simply, do research then try to
>confront with someone.
Ms Ritu Jyu,
I have to tell you what TU offers in social sicences and humanities because one thing that came up during the discussion was whether or not the predominantly bahun government is helping in preserving Newari or not. So, I HAD TO tell you what TU offers, just to PROVE my point.
Biswa Bhasa Campus offers Newari and Tibetan. Go check the syllabus. I don't have the syllabus with me because I am 20000000000000000 miles away from Biswa Bhasa Campus, but, i'll mail you a copy when I go back to nepal after 6 months.
? Please do not
>pretend simply, do research then try to
>confront with someone.
I am not pretending. Why on earth do i need to pretend? FYI, I have done my research, and is now more than willing to confront with you.
>
>>You haven't even heard me speaking, so how
>>can my voice sound ridiculous?
>
>It is a silly question. Nothing to say on it
>because we are communicating on the web, not
>speaking person to person. The question
>itself is ridiculous.
Your answer is silly itself.
Trailokya
>
>Reetu...
|
| Reetu |
Posted
on 14-Jul-01 12:35 AM
>>Hi T. Aryal,
>>
>
>Ms Ritu Jyu,
>
>I have to tell you what TU offers in social
>sicences and humanities because one thing
>that came up during the discussion was
>whether or not the predominantly bahun
>government is helping in preserving Newari
>or not. So, I HAD TO tell you what TU offers,
> just to PROVE my point.
>
>Biswa Bhasa Campus offers Newari and Tibetan.
> Go check the syllabus. I don't have the
>syllabus with me because I am 200000000000000
>00 miles away from Biswa Bhasa Campus, but,
>i'll mail you a copy when I go back to nepal
>after 6 months.
Calm down Mr. T. Aryal...
You can not give Nepal Bhasha's syllabus from Biswo Bhasha Camapus. Then, do not predend to show TU's syllabus as of proof. Every one knows that what the differences they have. Probably, you are able to post Nepal Bhasha's syllabus form "Baijing Bhasha Campus". You are just pretending saying I am far from KTM. You have nothing, if you have such thing why don't you post such syllabus of Biwo Bhasha Campus?
You want to show that Nepal Bhasha and all the other Matri Bhasha have murcy of Bahun govt.?? What do you mean? You are not democratic person neither you are constituent. Do not show your entire stupidity to the people of democratic and constitutional nation.
Reetu...
|
| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 14-Jul-01 03:27 AM
>>Hi T. Aryal,
>>
>
>>>
>Calm down Mr. T. Aryal...
>
>You can not give Nepal Bhasha's syllabus
>from Biswo Bhasha Camapus. Then, do not
>predend to show TU's syllabus as of proof.
>Every one knows that what the differences
>they have. Probably, you are able to post
>Nepal Bhasha's syllabus form "Baijing Bhasha
>Campus". You are just pretending saying I am
>far from KTM. You have nothing, if you have
>such thing why don't you post such syllabus
>of Biwo Bhasha Campus?
Dear Ms Reetu,
Biswa Bhasa campus falls under TU arthat. biswa bhasa campus bhaneko TU ko campus ho. yo pani bujhna hunna bhane-
kera ra suntala dui ota chutta chuttai kura ho, tara, duitai fulful ho. Tyasaile TU ra Biswa Bhasa campus chutta chuttai bhaye pani, Biswa Bhasa campus bhaneko TU antargat ko mahabidhyalaya ho.
aani, malai Beijing University ko syllabus thaha chaina. Hernus reetujyu, ma nepal ma chaina ahile, maile lekheko ramrari padhnus na.. maile ma nepal gaye pachi tapauilai biswa bhasa college ko syllabus mail garchu bhani halya chu.. malai thaha bhaye anusar aaru college harooma pani newari bishaye ko padhai huncha, kina bhane TU ko IA/BA syllabus ma newari pani cha.
>
>You want to show that Nepal Bhasha and all
>the other Matri Bhasha have murcy of Bahun
>govt.?? What do you mean? You are not
>democratic person neither you are
>constituent. Do not show your entire
>stupidity to the people of democratic and
>constitutional nation.
maile bujhina reetuji, tapaile bhanna khojya kura. Hernus, tapai pani angreji boldai lekhdai hurkeko manche hoina, ma pani yo gai khane bhasa lekhdai boldai hgurkeko manche hoina.. taysaile maile bhanya tapaile nabujhne, tapaile bhanya maile nabujhne.. tyasaile hami haroo nepali ma nai kura garu, aani hami duitaile ek aapas lai k bhanna khojeko ramrrai, ekai choti bujhne chau.
aani tyo constituent bhaneko k ho?
Trailokya
>
>
>Reetu...
|
