| Username |
Post |
| ashu |
Posted
on 06-Nov-03 08:00 AM
What follows is taken from "From The Nepali Press" section of The Nepali Times.
QUESTION: Is it morally and legally all right for a Nepali citizen to be BOTH a permanent resident of a foreign country AND the holder of a civil service job in
Nepal?
What do you think?
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
**************************************
Green card
Kantipur, 26 October
There is strong evidence that several senior government officials from important ministries and state institutions have become permanent residents in the US, New Zealand, Canada and Europe. Their numbers are increasing, especially after the introduction of the Diversity Visa (DV) scheme by the US government. At least a dozen senior bureaucrats have taken advantage of their positions.
Diwakar Pant from Nepal Legal Reforms Commission (NLRC) and Arjun Prasad Shrestha from the Ministry of Water Resources are already green card holders. Shrestha, who recently came from the US after a year, is already in a hurry to go back. Once youre a permanent resident you have to return to the US every year and Im having problems adjusting my leave of absence, says Shrestha, who adds that speed is of the essence if he is to receive benefits from the US government as a green card holder.
Most officials who have dual citizenships, like Shrestha, are on leave but still associated with the government. Another report says a group of government officials have become residents of New Zealand. A year-and-a-half ago, six under-secretaries left for New Zealand on a study leave and have been extending their official leave ever since. Although the issue of whether a Nepali citizen be a permanent resident in two countries is still unclear, many officials are not worried since they have the security of an American DV.
It is difficult to estimate the number of government officials who are aliens through these processes. Once they take leave, its not necessary for them to give details about their whereabouts. So, we will never know who is a green card holder, says Ek Narayan Aryal, a government official. The government is unsure about what kind of legal steps can be taken, especially when most relevant government units profess ignorance.
More than the legality, there is the moral issue of Nepali officials swearing oaths of allegiances to other countries. It merely proves they are interested in living in Nepal only if it comes with high promotions, attractive salaries and cushy benefits. Otherwise theyre off to foreign shores. How honest do you think these officers are? questions Madhab Poudel from the Law Ministry. They are disloyal to Nepal.
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| lalpari |
Posted
on 06-Nov-03 08:16 AM
Well, it's like this Tiwari Ji - you spend all your working life in Nepal (20 ... maybe 30 years) and then you realize that you are not getting very far. Your kids can't go to school without being threatned by some source or other. Whether that's true or not I don't know but that's the perception.
Afno desh ko pani chodna mun lagdaina ra ani bachha haru ko future ko lagi Western world looks very attractive. These people are between rock and a hard place. They are very moral and Loyal Nepali (I am saying that because I know one such person) ... they are just lost souls ... don't know what is the best thing to do?
That's all!
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| ashu |
Posted
on 06-Nov-03 08:26 AM
Lalpari-ji,
Sure, I understand your point.
As a reader, what I found interesting is that this news of Green Card-holding civil servants appeared right next to the following piece by Karna Shakya (see below).
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
****************************
Positive reinforcement
Karna Shakya, Himal Khabarpatrika, 3 October-1 November
Despite the immense potential and opportunities that we are blessed with, Nepalis have developed a strange complex. They dont believe in themselves anymore, they lack self esteem and underestimate their own capabilities. This inferiority is becoming a national epidemic.
The intelligentsia that is supposed to lead society is gripped by negativism. People from all walks of life see nothing but despair and hopelessness in their sectors. The honest, creative people are demoralised. We must stop devaluing ourselves all the time.
Intellectuals and politicians must accept partial blame for spreading rumours that Nepal is in shambles. They misused the nation as a begging bowl among international donors for their own personal aggrandisement. Witnessing all those vested interests at work, the new generation has every reason to feel depressed, especially when their peers desert the country in droves for a better future.
Has Nepal crossed the point of no return? Is the rot irreversible? Yes, we are in a bit of a jam, but it is a crisis we can pull ourselves out of. These are problems resulting from decades of mismanagement. The country that used be one of the safest in the world a decade ago, now has a badly tarnished international image, thanks also to the Maoist insurgency.
But, lets face it, Nepal is not the only nation that has problems. We are going through a nation-building phase that has forced us to come to terms with some of the contradictions in our socio-political milieu. We have to tackle this head-on. With problems come opportunities. They demand solutions, which in turn invite progress that leads to development. Sadly, a majority of Nepalis are so put off by the state of affairs that they choose to give up.
If we analyse our past, we will be able to see some progress. Fifteen years ago, we had to go to India for simple medical-surgeries. Today, Nepal has the facilities even for open-heart procedures.
A decade ago, we had to curry favour from junior staff at embassies to send our children abroad to study. Today, our children have many choices right here in Nepal. Notice the leap we made in the areas of communication and banking. Those who harp on about our non-performance must acknowledge the success stories like the apple orchards in Mustang. Nepal is not landlocked, it is brain-locked.
While Nepal occupies only 0.15 percent of the earths land surface, we boast about 15 percent of its biodiversity. We are the second richest country in terms of water resources, with the second largest population of tigers, the biggest number of snow leopards in the world and, believe it or not, the biggest stock of wild honey. Yet we feel ashamed of ourselves. What an irony! Get on a bicycle and visit our seven world heritage sites inside Kathmandu Valley, all within an hour of each other. Is there any other place so rich in culture and heritage? Our ancestors built the Nyatapola without scaffolding, they crafted underground water channels to feed urban water spouts.
Democracy is a Pandoras box. The bad will get evil things from it, but for the majority, it will bring hope. We need to revive optimism among those who despair about the countrys future. We need visionaries who can teach the Nepali people to dream again. We have to lift each other out of this morass. Each of us, in our little niches, have to maintain our integrity and our sense of national purpose.
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| ssNY |
Posted
on 06-Nov-03 08:29 AM
QUESTION: Is it morally and legally all right for a Nepali citizen to be BOTH a permanent resident of a foreign country AND the holder of a civil service job in Nepal?
I think it is absolutely alright. When the US state department gives our diversity visas(green cards) to the under represented countries, the Nepalese officials have just as much right to apply (try their luck) as the next Nepali.
Even if with the official has a green card, he/she's still working for the Neplese government for a salary, most likely, less than a gas attendents would make in the U.S. (Unless of course the official gets a lot of "bakshsis"). So, it is commendable for him or her to stay at their posts.
With all the turmoils (politically and economically) in Nepal, it is only wise to have a back up country to go to, if you are so lucky to have a means of getting a green card.
As you can tell, I am a resident of the U.S., hence I have no idea what happens in New Zealand. In the U.S. when one gets a green card, you do not swear or take pledge of allegiance to the star and stripes. You are still a citizen of, in this case, Nepal and you are allowed to live and work in the U.S. So, 'swearing allegiances to other countries' do no apply here.
Even when you become a US citizen, you swear to bear arms against the enemies of the US blah blah, you are, as the great contemporary singer, Adrian of 1974 AD sings "jaso gare, je bhane, jaha bhaye, ma ta Nepali ho."
Very coincindentally, "you man ta mero Nepali ho" is what my cd is playing typing this post. So, I end this with a appropriate slogan -
JAI NEPAL
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| ssNY |
Posted
on 06-Nov-03 08:35 AM
gives our = gives out
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| mickthesick |
Posted
on 06-Nov-03 09:53 AM
..Ashu !
I think the point that should be discussed is not whether it is morally or ethically correct to accept foreign citizenship is right or wrong. The point to be considered is- why not? I mean, why not accept foreign citizenship when given a chance, for example by the greencard DV lottery.
As suggested by lalpari above, the only way to see nepalese filling out the DV lottery forms is not as "a way of getting foreign citizenship", we should also consider it as a "way to live and educate your children in a free way".
Don't you think that the main reason why many nepalese youths today want to go to foreign lands to study, work and sometimes live is a mere showing of the frustrations they have gained throughout these years in Nepal. Not many nepalese wanted to go to foreign lands in the Panchayat system. Now, people might argue that public was not allowed to go to foreign countrires in panchayat system. But that is not true. There were freedom to go to foreign countries even during panchayat system. But there was no necessity because nepalese were happy staying in nepal in peace and harmony.
But the situations have changed. Nepal is no more the ideal peace land. The frustrations growing in the public life and mind has been resulting in emmigration of nepalese from nepal. This emmigration is due to sheer frustration and not because of the opportunity that foreign lands provide.
If nepal comes to noemal peace and harmony as before, i can assure everyone that most nepalese( not all, of course) will return to nepal.
Moreover, the emmigration in nepal is not much of a big problem in my views. Because every individual has his/her rights to decide where he/she is comfortable living or studying or working. They have been choosing foreign lands, that's fine. But eventually they will return one day and we can be asuured that they will have learnt more than what they could have if they stayed in nepal. Also they would have been more productive thus being more than useful to the nepalese society and community after their return.
I don't mean that whatever I have written is to be true. I am just being optimistic of the emmigration pattern found now a days among the nepalese youths and officials together. I'm just hoping for the best and that doesnot mean it is necessarily going to be true.
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| SimpleGal |
Posted
on 06-Nov-03 10:09 AM
Good points. But what about the potential vacancies that these dual citizenship holders are holding up? Promotions in the government jobs are slower than a snail. And they are further slowed down because of such people as cited in the article. It also means that the entry level positions are not available to those (young and educated) who are vying for the government jobs. It's enough that these officials are getting better opportunities for themselves and more so for their kids. Good for them. But one cannot have the cake and eat SOMEONE ELSE's too!!!
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| dream_girl |
Posted
on 06-Nov-03 10:35 AM
Ashu ji
A good question indeed. I agree with Simplegal.
NO matter what, everyone has the right to choose on what to choose, and where to stay and stuff and if they get the opportunity.
But the main issue is: Should he be allowed to stay in the post, and still be a foreign citizen? I think these people as soon as they take the residency of other countries, they should be removed or they should resign.
Chichi pani papa pani ka pahinchha ra haina ta?
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| rbaral |
Posted
on 06-Nov-03 11:37 AM
As long as a government servant does not violate a prevalent law of the country and performs his stupulated duties properly, he is free to become a permanent resident of as many countries as he wishes. Citizenship is a whole different story.
The canon of ethics for His Majesty's Government employees does not bar them from competing DV lottery, or any kind of lottery, unless it falls under a category of a gamble. They can become Diversity Visa recipient, consequentially, in case if they happen to hit the lottery.
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| VincentBodega |
Posted
on 06-Nov-03 12:37 PM
I dont know whether its morally wrong but I can see how it can be illegal.
Gov. service means that one is loyal to the government, believes in the government and works for the betterment of the government no matter what. This notion is totally eclipsed if the civil servant is trying hard to get a residency of another nation. I think these people should be jailed or at least expelled from work.
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| Logical Sense |
Posted
on 06-Nov-03 01:02 PM
rbaral has good point here.
In this articale and discussion 'Citizenship' of other country and 'Permanenet Residency/GC' has been used interchangeably, which is not right.
If you are a citizen of other country you can not hold Nepali citizenship period, there is not if or but, that is plain illegal, they should be prosecuted.
If you are a GC holder then you are not a citizen of foreign country. That meaans you can take as much leave of absence as given by the law. And how the leave of absence gets handled should be within the policy of government or company. If this becomes a national problem that should be dealth with accordingly (meaning, can't take more than so and so months in a stretch etc....).
But, let us talk about bigger picture. I think we should make easy for the people to leave Nepal. Close to $1 Billion (yes billion with b), remittance to Nepal a year is good start to think about. Also, lots of technology transfer happens over the time. India closed (still closing) for the issue of 'Brain Drain' has bore big fruits after 50 years or so. In public level they cry foul about 'Brain Drain' but in policy level they have opened the door for the people to go to foreign countries. (Example is: 10/15 years back getting Passport, and $ was nightmare in Nepal - many talents had to stay in Nepal even though they could have brought lots of talents back in Nepal ...- but in India $ for education was/is readily available and passport was mostly a day affair)
So, my friends, let us open the door more wide for people to come out of Nepal. Even a trickle from this TO Nepal will be enough for the the prosperity of Nepal if WELL PLANNED. While few individual contributions is helping and will keep helping in future, we should look and strive for few billionaires Nepalese to think about Nepal.
If we don't open our doors, some other county will do it. See already Nepalese are out numbering Indians in US (proportionately - 2 million Indians vs 60,000 Nepalese - multiply that by 50 for the size - oh well in numbers, one day we will in kind tool....)
- iti
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| gator_guy |
Posted
on 06-Nov-03 02:47 PM
To speak straight forward (in my opinion), to hold a public service job in Nepal and keep him/her abroad (with no intention to be back to nation to serve it), thereby creating difficulties, is disloyalty.
See folks, whether the rules allow or not, it is simply disloyal to do so. With regard to this situation, our rules have loopholes, but does that mean we must take advantage of it????
I totally agree that lottery winners/experts/scientists can sell their talents abroad and make good living (good luck to them). Thats fine. But if they hold job in nepal and just keep them away, that what makes gator_guy frustrated. well,, taking sabbatical leave, working somewhere else, and later getting back is fine. i know many people who take leave, come for money making jobs abroad, and get back in a year or two and keep working there. That is fine. But the ones taking permanent residence or so in these rich country will never go back to nepal and work in the same post. that is sure.
While doing my undergrad in Nepal, there were some teachers who worked for consultancies and did not show up for teaching, and we used to just get back from the class. i don agree with that. if they work out during period they don teach, thats fine. tara chichi ko pani loov, papa ko pani loov chahi kina nii ????
the problem is coming becoz people just leave the place, still hold the job and young professionals cannot be hired (or promotion not granted). This finally leads young people to end up with an asthai job,, which obvious reduces productivity. At least, another promising candidate could start up with the position.
ani yo kasto manasthiti hoo?? coming to america (or else) to live and work and make lots of dollars, and still consider that little NRs. 10,000/month of our nation as a salary and still taking it? what does that money count for our income abroad? and further than that, being published in national papers. this reminds me of the saying "not he who has less but he who wishes more if poor".
lets hope shortly our rules be strict so that such people are punished.
lau ma chahi gaye homecoming celebration ko tayari maa
JAYA DESH
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| ujol sherchan |
Posted
on 07-Nov-03 01:31 AM
Wow. This is a hot potato.
I think the issue boils down to whether pursuit of individual interests (permanent residency / citizenship of other countries) in the case of civil servants takes away from their capacity to discharge their duties in the countrys overall interests.
Excerpt:
<<>>
You get the drift?
I guess many of these dual citizens are only taking a calculated risk (betting on the future, i.e.). What with the NRNs repeatly bringing the issue of dual citizenship up and fielding a very strong lobby, dual citizenship stands a strong chance of becoming a reality. Esp., when we already have high government officials who are already dual citizens eager to assist them. Do you see any conflict-of interests when we have fence-stradlers in positions of power in the government or civil service? This is only one instance. Think about foreign policy in sensitive matters. Think about elections! May also encourage other countries to embed their citizens in positions of power in Nepal to effect certain outcomes. I believe this kind of arrangement is very susceptible to misuse and abuse.
However, I am not opposed to the idea of dual citizenship (provided this option is extended to ALL the Nepali diaspora be they in Burma, or north-east India or Bhutan or America - subject to their countries say on this) and to full participation of the Nepali diaspora in Nepals other areas such as the private sector and the NGO sector, to name just two.
Civil service/government sector, however, should employ or continue to employ those who are
a) citizens and
b) permanent residents of
Nepal and Nepal only.
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| ujol sherchan |
Posted
on 07-Nov-03 01:43 AM
Wow. This is a hot potato.
I think the issue boils down to whether pursuit of individual interests (permanent residency / citizenship of other countries) in the case of civil servants takes away from their capacity to discharge their duties in the countrys overall interests.
Excerpt:
&Most officials who have dual citizenships, like Shrestha, are on leave but still associated with the government. Another report says a group of government officials have become residents of New Zealand. A year-and-a-half ago, six under-secretaries left for New Zealand on a study leave and have been extending their official leave ever since&.
You get the drift?
I guess many of these dual citizens are only taking a calculated risk (betting on the future, i.e.). What with the NRNs repeatly bringing the issue of dual citizenship up and fielding a very strong lobby, dual citizenship stands a strong chance of becoming a reality. Esp., when we already have high government officials who are already dual citizens eager to assist them. Do you see any conflict-of interests when we have fence-stradlers in positions of power in the government? This is only one instance. Think about foreign policy in sensitive matters. Think about elections! May also encourage other countries to embed their citizens in positions of power in Nepal to effect certain outcomes.
I believe this kind of arrangement is very susceptible to misuse and abuse. Also the issue is has the other country of this particular dual citizen an extradition treaty with Nepal so that he/she cannot steal from Nepal and hide in their other country?
I am not opposed to the idea of dual citizenship (provided this option is extended to ALL the Nepali diaspora be they in Burma or north east India or Bhutan or America, subject to their countries say on this) and to full participation of the Nepali diaspora in Nepals other areas such as the private sector and the NGO sector.
However, direct participation in civil service/government sector should always be off-limits to fence straddlers.
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