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| Bhunte | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 12:02 AM
Dark Days in Shangri-La By SAMRAT UPADHYAY Published: November 10, 2003 BLOOMINGTON, Ind. In the 60's Nepal was a hashish-filled Shangri-La for hippies. In the 80's its hills swarmed with trekkers catching the evening sun as it hit Annapurna. Now a more sinister show is playing in the villages and in the capital, Katmandu and it should make Americans worry. For seven years, Maoist rebels have been waging a "people's war" that has turned this once-peaceful nation of 25 million, Lord Buddha's birthplace, into a killing field with thousands dead. In language that frighteningly invokes Pol Pot's Cambodia, they've vowed to kill millions more and "hoist the hammer and sickle atop Mount Everest." In August, after a seven-month cease-fire that allowed them to regroup, the Maoists began striking fiercely, and most Nepalis fear what will happen if they win. If Nepal turns into a Maoist totalitarian state, it could alter the security balance throughout South Asia. In this geopolitically important area, already rent by nuclear-fueled one-upmanship between India and Pakistan, this is a risk the world cannot afford. The Maoists have already formed close alliances with leftist extremists in the Indian states of West Bengal and Sikkim; the rebels often hide over the border in northern India, and the Indian government has made little effort to crack down on them. There are reports of cooperation with Communist factions from the Philippines, Peru and Turkey. The rebels model their approach after Peru's murderous Shining Path guerrilla movement: voice the aspirations of the poor, fight state oppression and police brutality, use violence as a means to justice. The rebels apparently see no paradox in their clinging to the revolutionary doctrines of Mao Zedong, even as his heirs in Beijing show an interest in helping the Nepali government defeat the insurrection. They also openly admire the late North Korean dictator Kim Il Sung, and could turn Nepal into another Hermit Kingdom: isolated, bitter and in constant friction with its neighbors. And at a time when the United States could do without more adversaries, the virulently anti-American stance of the Maoists could turn Nepal into a breeding ground not unlike Taliban-era Afghanistan for those who want to strike back at the great "imperialist" nation in retaliation for real or imaginary injuries. When they began their insurgency eight years ago, the Maoists with their promise of land reforms, free education and universal health care garnered support from rural Nepalis suffering from decades of extreme poverty, illiteracy and caste and ethnic prejudice. Even urban elites saw them as an antidote to the failed leadership of corrupt and querulous political parties. But as the Maoists began snuffing innocent lives and calling it "collateral damage," public sentiment has largely turned against them. Since 1995 the Maoists, with their 8,000 regular troops and perhaps as many as 40,000 irregular fighters, have been conducting sneak attacks against police and army posts, blowing up bridges, and publicly beheading alleged enemies and spies. Tourism, a mainstay of the Nepali economy, has been hit hard, as have primary sources of foreign exchange like textile and carpet manufacturing. "Business people are scared of the Maoists, who appear relentless in their efforts to destroy factories by setting them on fire," said Ashutosh Tiwari, a business consultant in Katmandu. "They rob banks, call for nationwide strikes and extort money called a `Maoist tax' from business people." The public is caught in the middle of the civil war. Last month four schoolchildren were killed in the crossfire between the army and the Maoists. In the past two years more than 5,000 people army, Maoists and civilians have died. Amnesty International has criticized the Maoists for "scores of abductions and kidnappings," but also condemned the army for arbitrary arrests and 250 cases of suspect "disappearances." |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 12:03 AM
contd...(Page 2 of 2) Nepal's monarchy has only compounded the problem. A year ago King Gyanendra fired the prime minister for supposed incompetence and dissolved the Parliament. For some Nepalis, this raised anxieties that the country was reverting to the repressive Panchayat regime that ran the country from 1962 to 1990 under the crown's absolute rule. Others lauded the king's "active" hand: 12 years of democracy hadn't worked, and it was time the king took control. In traditional Nepali thought, the monarch is an incarnation of Hindu god Vishnu, preserver of life. To some extent, this hold over the people remains, although it took a blow two years ago when Crown Prince Dipendra, drunk and drugged, gunned down 10 relatives, including his father, King Birendra. In February, Nepalis sighed with relief when the Maoists began negotiations with the government. A strident war of words, however, soon replaced dialogue, and the rebels went deeper into hiding. Their chief demand is for an assembly to redraft the Constitution, making the crown either powerless or obsolete. They also want the government to oust American military advisers and to terminate the country's counterterrorism agreement with the United States. Nepal isn't an Islamic country, it doesn't possess nuclear weapons, and it's small. But America should treat Nepal's insurgency problem as another potential Afghanistan the Maoists' hard-core Communist ideology more than compensates for their lack of religious fervor. Should America intervene militarily, however, the Maoists' leader, Baburam Bhattarai, has warned of "another Vietnam." More to the point, ordinary Nepalis reject foreign interference in solving their country's problems, and the American-led invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq have solidified Nepalis' suspicion about America's true motives. So what can the United States do? Instead of military aid (last year Congress approved $20 million in emergency military aid to help fight the insurgents), America should push for democratic change. King Gyanendra's executive fiat hasn't solved the Maoist problem, and his government's recent hasty appointments of party members to local administrative posts damningly resembles the pre-democratic Panchayat rule. Rather than hoping that a firm hand will subdue the rebellion, America should make its $27 million in annual economic aid to Nepal contingent on the king's moving toward new elections under a multiparty interim government. "Let the executive powers go back to the people," says Akhilesh Upadhyay (no relation), an editor at The Katmandu Post. As for India, Saubhagya Shah, a leading Nepalese scholar, says the United States should "convince India to shut down Maoist bases on its territory and extradite the rebel leadership." Since the end of the cease-fire in August, more than a thousand Nepali lives have been lost. But the Maoist insurgency is not simply about terrorists: it's about the problems of a struggling democracy. These difficulties are shared with many other countries around the world, and each is a test case of America's commitment to spreading its ideals of liberty and freedom. For years Nepalis suffered under absolute monarchy, which provided the foundation for Maoist ideologues to garner support among the oppressed. The only way out of this quagmire is more democracy, not less. Samrat Upadhyay, author of the novel "The Guru of Love," teaches creative writing at the Indiana University. |
| ashu | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 04:14 AM
Congratulations to Samrat on getting this op-ed published in The New York Times. I especially liked the last sentence: "The only way out of this quagmire is more democracy, not less." A toast to that. oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| villagevoice | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 04:39 AM
Good job, Samrat !!! Getting it out in the Times, the Grand Daddy of U.S. media, is remarkable!!! Three cheers to democracy. The agrument, heard especially in Kathmandu's elitist circles, that the King should hold on to power because the politicians are corrupt/incompetent just doesn't fly. It's been a year since the Royal takeover; look around and draw your own conclusions. |
| Gokul | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 06:41 AM
Congratulations and thank you for upholding the ideals of democracy especially in these not-so-good days. Your name belies your sentiments, but yes, what's in the name? ;) |
| Biswo | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 08:43 AM
It is a remarkable piece. I applaud Samrat for this. And yes, what is happening in Shangrila is shocking. I was reading at a government's performance of post-royal takeover, and that is so shockingly low, and dismal. I will get back with that later. |
| Outsider | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 10:53 AM
Didn't someone in this forum talk about the 'courage' to live in Nepal? That while Nepalis living abroad tout about democracy and such but that they had to 'live' with the complexities. How come the same person is appalauding about 'more democracy not less'? But then- like Walt Whitman ('Did I contradict myself ? That's all right. I am great. I contain contradictions"')- he considers himself to be great. |
| ssNY | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 12:00 PM
I was first amazed and impressed by Ashu's prior knowledge of this article coming out (in a separate thread yesterday) but reading it made me understand why. "Business people are scared of the Maoists, who appear relentless in their efforts to destroy factories by setting them on fire," said Ashutosh Tiwari, a business consultant in Katmandu. "They rob banks, call for nationwide strikes and extort money - called a `Maoist tax' - from business people." Having heard Maoists intimidate so many people in Nepal, I was wondering if Ashu is in any danger with such remarks. Have they levied you with 'Moaist-tax' as so many have been? How do you handle all this? As with what the United States should or should not do - as Samrat Upadhyay suggests - is a tricky one. As much as I love the U.S., its foreign policy - more than often - seems directed by "what's in it for me?" US supports dictator like Musharaf of Pakistan and other "illegitimate" governments where it sees benefit. For a country like Nepal to gain any legitimate support from the U.S., we ought to garner support from the Nepal loving American citizens who can lobby for our cause, democracy et al. As much as I, like many others, am against this Maoist insurgency in Nepal, bringing back democracy alone is not going to solve this problem. All it does is to shift "power" from the King to other individuals. What needs to be done is taking care of the majority of the population who's in poverty like almost nowhere else. Please, don't ask me how. If I knew that, you'd have seen it in NY Times a long time ago and in a whole lot of other places. Kudos to Samrat Upadhyay. |
| U_2 | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 03:56 PM
The article does not contain any new ideas, or analysis. Most of the content in the article are old and already known to those who have been reading news about Nepal. However, he seem to make some interesting points in his article: "America should push for democratic change (in Nepal)." "(Nepal is a) Lord Buddha's birthplace" "the Indian government has made little effort to crack down on them" "Ashutosh Tiwari, (is) a business consultant " "Akhilesh Upadhyay is an editor at The Katmandu Post" "Saubhagya Shah is a leading Nepalese scholar. " |
| Qallu | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 04:49 PM
It is great that Samrat's piece made the NYT. That in itself is an amazing feat - to get the message out in front of the American public, especially the left-leaning liberal types for whom NYT is a mainstay. As U_2 points out, the article is not terribly original and Samrat speaking out against the Maoists and what America needs to do now seems terribly safe and rather uninspired. Not that there is anything wrong with that or even that what he is saying is wrong. Just that as a peice of writing and opinion, it seems a really safe bet. Afterall, there is overwhelming consensus among most reasonable Nepalis and South Asia afficianado that the Maoists are unscrupulous killers and this insurgency is a part and parcel of a new struggling democracy. So. This very article, if published even six months or a year ago, might have struck me personally as more groundbreaking, but today, I read it and said "Great!" and that was it. But to most American readersthe info will be new enough. And as a Nepali, that is good enough. And yes, the "experts" cited seems rather incestuous.... Would have liked to have seem some more gome grown experts... nothing against Ashutosh Tiwari, Saubhagya Saha or Akhilesh upadhyaya (no relation to Samrat of course:) Would have also liked to have read more about what this tied-aid (linking democratic reforms and aid) could look like, what the challenges of such aid could be. Aid and systemic democratic reforms is longer term and necessary measures, but what about the immidiarte and short term resolutions that we so need to curb the violence and killings every day? So yes, the what does Samrat think are some strategies to overcome these challenges? That would have been interesting. But maybe that will be in the next installment:) Regardless, good going Samrat! |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 05:04 PM
Interestingly, one American professor read the article and sent to me by email thinking that i might have missed it. As someone of you have already mentioned the article is not much strategic or analytical one, but Samrat did a commendable job to make aware of what is happening in hinter lands to American public by publishing in leading newspaper of the world. My hats off to fellow alumni! |
| ashu | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 05:19 PM
ssNY wrote: "Having heard Maoists intimidate so many people in Nepal, I was wondering if Ashu is in any danger with such remarks. Have they levied you with 'Moaist-tax' as so many have been? How do you handle all this?" I don't know. All I know is: The only way evil [whatever it is, and from whichever side it comes!] can triumph in public in Nepal is when good men and women sit around and just complain and do nothing. That does not necessarily mean that one has to start a julus or go on an "on-shan". Sometimes, quietly trying to influence certain ideas and views can also be effective, if only one tries. Samrat's piece, adressed to an American audience that knows little about about Nepal, makes an excellent OPENING to talk about Nepal in the American media. Now, the challenge is for other Nepalis to build up on that opening, and leverage their contacts to do deeper analyses in other publications such as The New Yorker, The New York Times Magazine, Foreign Affairs, The Atlantic Monthly, The Economist and so on and on. If anyhing, the work has just begun. We in Nepal need MORE Nepalis writing about Nepal in non-Nepali media. The influential people around the world need to know more about what is happening to Nepal, and, more importantly, what could be the possible solutions to the problems facing us. I say that because as a nation with enormous potential, we can't go on like this. oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| Biruwa | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 05:21 PM
It only appeared in the 'opinion' section of the NYT. I don't think this will have much of an impact unless Nepalis take the cut-outs to senators and show it to them. I don't think many people will notice this unless ofcourse they had prior info about its publication or were really looking for it. I see what I mean? It's not on the big stories column. Most people read 5% of the news that have the most impact and are given prominence. |
| ssny | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 05:35 PM
"I don't know", that's it Ashu? Good luck to you any way and I do understand your point totally on speaking out against injustices. I don't know the exact word but Samuel Wiesenthal said something against the people who didn't do much to rise against the Nazis that led to so much destruction. When I read the Times, which is everyday, first I look at the editroial and then the op eds. I don't think it's only me who does that but very many people, especially (and please don't count me among those people) the politicians and the other people in power. In this age of 24 hours news on TV, radio and internet - it's the editorials and the opinions people want to learn about. And obviously, that is where one will look. So, Samrat's op ed is seen by many and that is where, I think, many fresh news is found. Just my two cents. |
| ssny | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 05:36 PM
My second paragraph above was meant as a reminder (or rebuttal) to Biruwa's comment. |
| GP | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 05:58 PM
Good Job, Samrat. Hat off salute to for the first hand writing from a Nepali in NYT. As long as Ashu's name appears there, I don't think its harmful to him. Because Ashu had already discussed so much against Maoists, this one additional note will make much difference. Those who have never seen Ashu's encounter with a Maodai (who in my guess seems to be here in Sajha.com). You can click those dicusssions at http://www.geocities.com/nc-fan-club/ GP |
| Suman Pradhan | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 06:20 PM
Well, I think its a little too difficult to put everything in one short article, but I sorely missed the "exclusion" angle in Samrat's peice. It is a given now that exclusionary policies of the last 200 years is what's fuelling the Maoist rebellion today. Also, I can't remember when the Maoists said they'll killl millions more, as Samrat asserts. Does anyone know? The article is written for the American audience and Samrat's allusion to Lord Buddha, Pol Pot and Shining Path is intended to draw the reader to understand the problems in Nepal. But I fear those references will only serve to reinforce the misperceptions the western audience already has. Isn't Ambassador Malinowski already doing that here? This is not to say the Maoists aren't brutal. They are, but so are the security forces. Samrat's article will only help in getting the US to provide more military aid to the security forces (by implication the Palace), and that won't solve anything here. Samrat is right in arguing for more democracy, not less. But exactly how? Having tasted absolute power on the strength of the RNA, will the new King give up his authority and let democracy floursh again? Will the parties, who messed up so badly, reform themselves in time to deal with the serious issues raised by the Maoists and the Palace? Will the RNA act to serve the people first and the monarchy second? These are some of the questions Samrat could look into in his next peice. cheers Suman |
| Lalupate*Joban | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 06:59 PM
The article is analytically weak - in fact, very, very weak. There is no denying that. Samrat, regardless of his waxing fame in literary circles, is no Edward Said. No offense to Samrat and his achievements, but he has a lot to go before he metamorphoses from a lay observer of political events to a readable political analyst whose ramblings can be taken seriously. Anybody well-versed in the history of civil war resolution would easily shred Samrat's article into pieces. His policy recommendations have no relevant frame of reference; they float in the air. I found the article severely wanting in terms of logical coherence. For a debut for an NYT article on the current Nepali morass by a Nepali, I would have loved to see a more analytically rich and thought-provoking article - something that could frame a debate better. The Nepali civil war has certainly been gaining more attention lately in the US. [When Bhesh Thapa came to my uni for a brown bag discussion a month or so ago, the interest in the Nepali civil war among the gair-Nepali audience was palpable, although I have to say that I did not like the way BT handled the questions; I found his attitude somewhat domineering in his own way - the type that tries to assert intellectual hegemony and discourages further questions. Just a few weeks ago, a student at J-School approached me for an interview for her project on the Nepali civil war. A professor at a gathering about two weeks ago, "What part of Mao's discourse do Nepal's Maoists exactly follow - the strategy or the ideology?" An Indian with an ongoing 8-year-old PhD candidacy: "Hey, your Maoists were at the Senate today. It was discussing terrorism in South Asia."] But, for the buzz about Nepal's situation to translate into serious concern about it in the US, articles have to appear where they matter the most. For an article to make an impact in America's foreign policy, the best forum in the print media remains "Foreign Affairs." (Remember, FA has the distinction of having publish George Kennan's famous X article - the article that is believed to have shaped the trajectory of American foreign policy in the post-WWII era and Sam Huntington's influential "The Clash of Civilizations?") However, let me say with the risk of appearing iconoclastic, Samrat Upadhyaya's level of analysis will simply not cut it at the FA. May be, the likes of Paschim and Saubhagya Shah should have a go at it. |
| U_2 | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 08:04 PM
Of late, international media have shown enough interest in Nepal's Maoist problem. Many foreigners have already written articles, such as in NYT, Time (twice), Economist (regularly), BBC, CNN, etc. There was hardly a need for nepali repeating same thing again. What was needed, though, was a Nepali's perspective on Nepal's problem and solutions, in international media. Samrat could have done that ! However, I am just glad to see a Nepali's name in NYT. |
| Qallu | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 08:06 PM
It is always interesting to see how every creative artist (be s/he a hollywood star like Serandon or Sean Penn, or a writer like Arundhati Roy, Barbara Kingslover, or Mark Twain or whoever) speak about the political world around them. Some "cut it" it some don't, but whatever it is, when public figures (most people who read fiction would know Samrat, so he qualifies as one) speak, they already have an audience and have more credibility than others who have not yet made a mark in the us/international contemporary politica/cultural consciousness. So lets please be fair and recognize that in putting his opinion out there to be dissected by his readinjg public and his fellow countrymen is a pretty big deal already. Plus, every piece of writing we can get out there about what is happening in Nepal, to educate the global public and advocate for international policies that are more forward thinking is a great thing. And yes, maybe he has opened the door for other Nepalis to be able to have that sort of credibility and access. Sadly enough - for the average American, until Dipendra killed his family members, Nepal was at best associated with Everest, otherwise maybe Naples. And Samrat has revealed a more contemporary picture of Nepal to the world - one quite different from your hazy 60s caravan to Kathmandu by way Kabul and Kashmir. So lets be nice about it. Whatever though, it will be interesting to see if Samrat chooses to do/continue what the other contemporary artists have also chosen to do - that is to try and use their influence to advocate for a particular world view and end up being some sort of a public voice for their times. |
| Nepe | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 08:14 PM
I was bewildered and disappointed to read one polite remak after another... well until Suman Pradhan and Lalupate Joban broke the ice. Kudos to Suman Pradhan and Lalupate Joban. As for Samrat Upadhyaya, he has a long way to go. |
| Nepe | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 08:15 PM
I was bewildered and disappointed to read one polite remak after another... well until Suman Pradhan and Lalupate Joban broke the ice. Kudos to Suman Pradhan and Lalupate Joban. As for Samrat Upadhyaya, he has a long way to go. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 08:41 PM
I think people, like LJ, SP and Nepeji, are missing the major point here, though I don't doubt their well intention in their critique of this article. Samrat's article's major point, in my opinion, is not to ,say, invite US intervention(which is already there) or not even to serve as a primer to US readers about the snowballing crisis in Nepal, it is to exhort the USA to work for more democracy in Nepal with whatever power it has over Nepal. He asks especially to make the US assistance contingent on return to democracy which should be applauded by all. Here, in Houston, I frequently interact with Baker Institute of Public Policy people. And my request to them, who often visit Washington to testify before senate etc, is please watch out, USA is so much stretched rightnow that US foreign policy is in problem. It is so remarkably comparable to what used to happen in emperial Britain. I gave this example of Nepal-Britain war of 1814-5. Britain was so stretched, that British general stationed in Africa and Asia acted on their own without even bothering to ask with the government in London(it used to take six month for such communication though). And yes, general Ochterlony started out Nepal-Britain war without prior permission from Britain, and a lot of parliamentarians were not happy with that.Similarly, ambassador Malinowski(spelling?) is acting on American citizen's behalf, which Americans don't know, and what he has done so far is very unfortunate: he has encouraged the king to (continue) take over. He is cuddling the dictator there, and yet, no one in USA really knows about this, really cares about this. Ambassador Malinowski is probably as famous as an actor in urbans of Nepal, because he is so obtrusive in Nepali politics, yet what he is doing there is making him, and USA, gradually unpopular. I wouldn't underestimate the influence of NYTimes op-ed. Yes, FA is more erudite, more influential, but hey, NYTimes is what we have rightnow. We need to seize this opportunity, and tell any senators of USA we meet/we can write that if USA wants to get involved in Nepal, it should only be for more democracy, not less democracy. And Samrat's article is a very good start in promoting that position. I would like to present some facts, from Ram Sharan Mahat's soon to be published article for those who are interested to know state of the Nepal's development: .... .... If the experience of the last eighteen months since the dissolution of the House of Representatives is any indication, funds from state treasury continues to be spent in the name of development with no visible output. In the first eight months of the last fiscal year, a total of 15 kms of roads were constructed at the cost of 4 billions rupees, a total of 2000 ha of land irrigated with the investment of Rs 3 billions. Not a single hospital bed or a school was added. Under the previous democratic governments, an average of 700 kms of road and 40,000 ha of irrigated land were added annually. Despite claims of a government of "clean figures" that is free to work without any political and partisan pressures, unsavory deals , under- hand payment, blatantly partisan biases and mismanagement are rampant. Such instances were liable to be blown out of proportion, when there were functioning elected bodies to watch and question, and a free press to report. But they are all hidden now from the public gaze. The media has been told to "cooperate" with the government. |
| ashu | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 08:59 PM
Biswo wrote: "And Samrat's article is a very good start in promoting that position." Exactly, my point too. Criticising a sprinter for not running the marathon is to miss the point altogether. Samrat's a SHORT OPINION piece. If it leaves readers with ONE clear message (and I think it does), then, it has succeeded in its aim. That is all we as Nepalis can celebrate for now. Nothing more. Nothing less. It is NOT a scholarly 'on one hand this, and on the other hand that' kind of an article, and NYT op-eds are rarely like that. As long as Samrat had a point FOR the audience that he was writing for, well, that's OK by me as a reader. The challenge is for OTHER Nepalis to now write longer, deeper and more analytical pieces for the GLOBAL audience. oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| saunak | Posted
on 10-Nov-03 09:19 PM
Congratulations to Samrat !! I agree with you Ashu that other Nepali should try to build on Samrats opinion: get the words out in prominent media outlets. An idea does not have to be a killer one to spark a meaningful and lively discussion. Unfortunately, we do not have a tradition of building on others work; everyone has to do his/her little things to prove he or she is important. We are quicker than a fox to pounce on others; shape of our thought has been influenced by some sever negativism. Positive thinking is a rare commodity for Nepalis. Maoists are no exception, neither are those from other camps: parties or palace. Even the Maobadis, who think they are the most scientific of all, couldnt build on others work, so they had to come up with their own thought:Prachandpath. Shiningpath or Maos thought wasnt enough for them to build on. Criticism on analysis, give me a break! Samrat isnt a political scientist; he is a fiction writer and, I believe he would agree with me that, he wasnt churning out an analytical piece in NYTimes. In my opinion, articles published on this subject in Nepali Times are more effective in rallying the world community than a peace by Samrat in NY Times, if Nepali people living in powerful country could pick up those issues and bring to the attention of international community. I congratulate Samrate--from a perspective of a Nepali who has seen and experienced the brutlaity on ground-- not for what he had to say in the article about the situation of Nepal, but for a break he has gotten. All of us should be happy for him. Since he mentioned Saubhagyas name in the article, as an expert, he might be the next one in line for getting an analytical piece in NY Times. Let us cross our fingers! It might not be very long before we see that happen. Im curious as to why he did not mention Deepak Thapas name when talking about Maobadi issue in Nepal. Well, curiosity is curiosity and has no demarcation. More later, time permitting. Saunak. |
| NK | Posted
on 11-Nov-03 04:14 AM
An article gets published, and there will be hundreds of responses. Some positive and some negative. As we see here with Samrat's Op-ed piece. I always used to wonder where are the Nepalis whenever I saw an article (in Times) about Mao problem written by some Indian living in Delhi. I hope Samrat's piece is just the beginning. I don't think Samrat is thinking sitting on his freshly minted golden throne (courtesy to NYT), "Holy Cow! How do you like my Magnum Opus?? It is the brightest star of my career!!!" It was merely an overture to nudge readers of NYTimes. It is arguably the most read newspaper in the whole wide world. (Just compare their advertisement rate to, let's say Washington Post as an indicator).Op-ed page is neither a Ph.D. thesis nor a report for tribunal committee in Geneva. I think people are missing the point. And Yes, it was definitely not written for FA. |
| ashu | Posted
on 11-Nov-03 04:40 AM
GP-ji, Thanks for posting that Maodai link. These days, like most Nepalis, I am just sick and tired of all this senseless violence all around us in Nepal. More than 1000 people getting killed since the end of August '03 is a SERIOUS matter. This conflict is the number-one agenda These days, in my spare time, I have been reading up on the recent history of El Salvador, and trying to learn and understand just how President Alfredo Cristiani -- a businessman -- assumed political leadership there, worked hard to make peace with the rebels and ended that country's bloody civil war in the early '90s. There are lessons for us in Nepal to learn from this El Salvadoran experience. oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| Deep | Posted
on 11-Nov-03 06:33 AM
Ashudai, "These days, in my spare time, I have been reading up on the recent history of El Salvador, and trying to learn and understand just how President Alfredo Cristiani -- a businessman -- assumed political leadership there, worked hard to make peace with the rebels and ended that country's bloody civil war in the early '90s. " Halka Hint chhod.di ra ta haina? |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 11-Nov-03 06:51 AM
Congrats to Samrat! Now my comments: Well, most of the points have been already covered by lalupate Joban, so, I'd just make mine short and sweet. I have a question regarding Samrat's use of word democracy. And in all my honsety and sincerity, I would like to raise this question: What is democracy? Is it a monolith? If yes, then why doesn't the system that works best in the US or the UK doesn't work elsewhere? Couldn't there be variations in democracy, just like the Christianity? (for more on Christianity and democracy, see Robert Kaplan's essay, "Was democracy just a moment?"). So, what's Samrta's model of democracy and what makes him think that it will solve all the problems in Nepal? Do people care about democracy and freedom when there's nothing to eat, nothing to wear and nowhere to live? Is democracy's definition merely confined to freedom of speech and elections every 5 years? Anyways, I don't know much about writing but, I think the piece would have been a lot more powerful if the author had focused more on "SOLUTIONS" than just on the "PROBLEMS", which everyone is aware of. As for the FA comment: Lalupate Joban, I don't think Samrat wrote that piece thinking that it will have a huge impact on the US policy on Nepal. It is more of an information piece, not your analysis piece. As for writing for the FA, well, it requires training on certain disciplines and years and years of experience. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 11-Nov-03 06:59 AM
If yes, then why doesn't the system that works best in the US or the UK doesn't work elsewhere?= If yes, then why doesn't the system that works best in the US or the UK work elsewhere? |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 11-Nov-03 07:28 AM
[When Bhesh Thapa came to my uni for a brown bag discussion a month or so ago, the interest in the Nepali civil war among the gair-Nepali audience was palpable, although I have to say that I did not like the way BT handled the questions; I found his attitude somewhat domineering in his own way - the type that tries to assert intellectual hegemony and discourages further questions. Harey, Prof Merill Goodal's best student behaving this way? Hard to believe. |
| Biruwa | Posted
on 11-Nov-03 08:58 AM
Pradhan ji , You said, >>"It is a given now that exclusionary policies of the last 200 years is what's fuelling the Maoist rebellion today." Which exclusionary policies are you referring to? I don't think there was a whole lot behind the scene act in excluding certain people. Rather it was the inclusionary policies that is really to blame. But that is really an universal phenomena, as long as there is no system of giving credit to merit . Given a choice You would choose people you know. And that was -natabad and cripabad. |
| confused | Posted
on 11-Nov-03 01:51 PM
i really dont write on threads like this coz i dont have much understanding of it and i think i havent gotten to the point where i can understand that level of understanding..i may be very little educate on these stuff but this is my opinion on Samrat's article: when i read SAMRAT's article..i wanted to write something abt it..his article was weak..whatever he wrote was full of assumptions not realization...very high level ma basera low level ko kura lekhera hudaina.."you need to cut the grass to know how to cut it".. Samrat is a good writer and i have read his frist book..the one with collection of short stories..but this article really wasnt great.. these kind of problems are with every nepali..people now adays..by getting a good education from america..they think they know everything abt nepal..u need to feel the soil to get its taste.....those people/NGO's who go district to district to find the solution to the problems are people who are capable of writing these kind of stuff and sud write these kind of stuff..not anyone who looks at the ground from 100th floor.. .there was a big mess while choosing kanitpur's editor to i beilive..??? people were mad at (dont wanna disclose the name) for giving job to someoneelse..the guy who got the job had experience and had worked from the ground level..tara people were mad coz they didnt give the job to someone else... |
| Nepe | Posted
on 11-Nov-03 02:55 PM
Biswo ji, Excellent point about Malinowsky sahib. On my point, being myself a democracy fanatics and witnessing some otherwise educated and sophisticated individuals either being positive, supportive and in case of certain individual, ambiguously ambivalent about the royal take over, over a good period of time, I will be the last person not to notice Samrat's unambiguously written words of a call for more democracy and, by inference, less monarchy. My dissatisfaction with Samrat's piece is, interestingly, resonates in the words of Isolated Freak- Focussed more on the PROBLEMS but unable to make a case for the SOLUTION. Forget about convincing Isolated Freak, a staunch royalist, Samrat even can not convince me, Nepe, a staunch democratic republican, why and how more democracy's gonna solve the problems he so passionately described. His few little sentences about democracy towards the end of the article come almost out of the blue. As Lalupate*Joban aptly put -His recommendations have no relevant frame of reference; they float in the air. And they float in the air for a reason. From his description of the Maoists, it is clear, at least to me, that he is missing a lot of different angles to read them and what they represent. No wonder he makes remarks like 'what the heck is the Constituent Assembly ? Can somebody explain it to me ?' (Samrat's op-ed, KTP) He does not see CA as a possible solution of our political quagmire, not even as an alternative solution. And now he makes (almost) a passing remarks that more democracy is the solution. It's gotta float in the air. Looking slightly from a different angle, Samrat actually makes a case for less democracy. If Maoists are up to killing millions of Nepalis, and if CA is not a possible way out, then what the heck is the solution of the Maoist problem ? Can somebody tell me ? It can't be anything but what Mahamahim Rajdoot Malinowsky is trying to convince the political parties and common citizens. Put aside the difference (about democracy), unite with the monarch, and strike hard on the Maoists. Democracy can wait. Wiping out the evil like Maoists can not wait. If we delete one sentence or two from Samrat's article, it will be an excellent document for Mr. Malinowsky to make a case for what he is trying very hard to convince unconvinced citizens and civil society in Kathmandu. My personal observation. And on being negative (some posters' remarks), since when it became negative to point out flaws ? |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 11-Nov-03 03:17 PM
Nepe, the the recent post is well thought and analytical one.... |
| Nepe | Posted
on 11-Nov-03 03:34 PM
Bhunte ji, I agree. As a matter of fact, both are excellent. Reflects his talent of creative writing. I enjoyed them tremendously. I was quoting his passing remark about CA in his first column. That's all. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 11-Nov-03 05:03 PM
Nepeji, I support CA. I didn't know SU's position on CA, (frankly, I don't read many newspapers these days. I just glean main news from kantipuronline.com and nepalnews.com, and occasionally read NepaliTimes, TKP and Kantipur.) and I don't care what he thinks about CA either. In NYTimes piece, what he has articulated is a start point. It is not easy to write everything in a thousand word piece, and I am afraid that was what some of our sajha readers were expecting.And there are a lot of dangers associated when one writes a political piece. After reading his vague political piece in the New Republic, (Democracy's many fathers), I asked professor Amartya Sen this same question: why is it that economists, who tend to be so rigorous in their research-related works, suddenly draw conclusions from these seemingly unrelated historical pieces.[He had wriitten that democracy has roots in east etc. which I wasn't convinced]. Professor Sen himself acknowledged that it was slippery slope. Writing about political things is fraught with danger, and you always draw conclusion from some ambivalent premise and you always run risk of alienating someone. So, let's not target SU for what he wrote or for the fact that he has different opinion from a lot of us about the current impasse of Nepali Politics, and let's hope that SU or others will articulate their position more clearly in future. We can always contact our local newspapers, like Houston Chronicle, Boston Globe or Baltimore Sun, (I'm sure if we try, we may be able to convince some of the editors to accept our pieces), and I think that would be a better way to take American policy vis-a-vis Nepal back to American people, rather than let it be run by a few employees in American embassy in Nepal. |
| Outsider | Posted
on 11-Nov-03 05:11 PM
What should it matter (for an op-ed piece, mind you) if the writer lives in Delhi or Bloomington ? The only article I remember ( and by far the most insightful) that appeared on the royal massacre was an op-ed piece in New York Times by Pankaj Mishra. What if he lives in Delhi ? Sometimes distances even provides a perspective that would be hard to have for one living in the center of the action. rb |
| GP | Posted
on 11-Nov-03 06:09 PM
In these 3 months of my stay in USA, I found talking to US citizens so relaxing that they take thing positively and almost no sarcastic attitude, and suddenly you talk to some asians, especially, south asian, its so disappointing to hear the sarcastic, negative and lies. Well, I have to see more and more, before I make final conclusion. Its just cursory vision, but, one thing is true that you don't have to know someone here to say "Hey, how are you?", its so natural as if you know him/her for long time. Sajha.com's fellow writers, not sure whether they are in USA or elsewhere, but, are rare to show +ve such gestures to anyone who comes here and go. I don't think that SU's article should be taken so much negatively, but, is it these fellow's really by birth style or they are really articulate / talent to view him negatively, or they expect too much from SU. Its his opinion and in free world, anyone has right to present his views, and s/he does not require to be civil war historian. I am not sure whether the -ve gestures and sarcastic comments were because plain zealousy. I am really tired of -ve attitude and sarcastic comments anywhere and anytime. Probably, its part of frustration of failure everywhere you move on. It is said that those who have hard life, offer fully -ve attitude and sarcastic views. God Bless Nepal and Nepalis. GP |
| ashu | Posted
on 11-Nov-03 06:12 PM
This is a GENERAL remark. When TIME magazine recently published a rather negative piece on Nepal, CK Lal attacked TIME for getting things wrong in highly personal terms. A number of people in Kathmandu also criticized TIME -- but only orally. I asked these critics: "If you feel so strongly about the TIME article, why don't you dash off a letter to the TIME editor and present your views? What's stopping you?" To my knowledge, NOT a single letter to editor with a reference to that Nepal article appeared in TIME's subsequent issues from any Nepali . . . even after that TIME reporter Alex Perry scolded CK Lal in the pages of The Nepali Times. Moral of the story? As things stand, MOST Nepali 'intellectuals' (intellectuals defined here as Nepalis who know, for sure, just what is wrong with Nepal, and how to fix Nepal's problems if ONLY they are given a chance) do NOT write. [They only write boring reports for donors!] Period. You listen to them at seminars and conferences in Kathmandu, and you sense that -- wow! these people have 13-point SOLUTIONS to everything. Writing clearly, articulately and even passionately -- as if Nepalis mattered -- for the public is often beneath their dignity. The idea that you can write, argue and actually influence people is ALIEN to most Nepalis who are educated enough to put sentences together. [Nepali literature appears to be a different domain, though, where every rejected lover is accepted as a budding poet!] Most, not all, of the time -- and I am still making GENERAL remarks - these are the same folks who rubbish newspaper articles for being, well, not rigorous. But they don't realize that newspaper articles serve as 'a mere first draft', for more scholarly, in-depth articles later on, if one so desires. After all, you have to START from SOMEWHERE to talk about issues. ******* Let's get real: Few Nepalis -- no matter how famous they are among us -- will ever be invited to write for, say, "Foreign Affairs" if they haven't already written for, say, The Kathmandu Post, The Nepali Times, Himal South Asia and so on and on . . . unless, of course, they have classmates who work as junior editors at "Foreign Affairs". But, the idea is to start from somewhere, even from a humble Nepali newspaper . . . to keep on writing and get things moving . . . ************* Though I saw Samrat's piece only after it was published, I would not be surprised if the truth is that the NYT editors -- mindful of their particular audience -- did a fair bit of editing to, well, 'Americanize' the article . Such things do happen, and lots of things get lost or cut or modified or changed in the editing process, which can be pretty rigorous. The reality is: What comes out, then, is a product in the name of the author, with a fair bit of editing done by an editor behind the scenes. And the author -- for better or worse-- picks up both the blame and the praise. ************* oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| Suman Pradhan | Posted
on 11-Nov-03 08:17 PM
Nepe puts the point succintly: since when did critiquing an article become the hallmark of negativeness? If that were the case, then many of my fellow Sajha posters would be accused of negative attitude in some thread or the other. If my posting sounded negative, then sorry. But I know that Samrat himself understands that I was only pointing out some of the short-comings (in my opinion) of the write-up. And I do understand that not everything can be mentioned in one short peice, and even it were, the editors at the NYTimes would have done thier own bit of chopping etc etc to give the peice an "Americanized" flavor, as Ashu points out. And Biruwa, all you have to do is read the tremendous amount of literature available on "exclusion" to get a clear picture. This is not my thesis but that of sociologists who have done plenty of work in the field and I happen to agree with their findings. cheers suman |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 11-Nov-03 08:24 PM
suman ji, you were not supposed to criticize zippy, but u did. now, i bet that u will be in zippy's I-list. many people have been ambuished in that list. watch out...lol |
| ashu | Posted
on 12-Nov-03 04:41 AM
Deep wrote: "Halka Hint chhod.di ra ta haina?" No. The best way to plan for a good life is to live it -- one day at a time, to the fullest, while letting the future take care of itself. :-) oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| saunak | Posted
on 12-Nov-03 06:54 AM
Well, Samrats piece in the NT Times seems to have hit the target that it was aiming for: make Nepals case an issue of International importance. Yesterday, I had a meeting with a person who has an access to the power structure on the Hill, and during our meeting he asked me if I had read the article in NY Times. Of course, I said. And&.. Well, I dont want to rewrite the whole conversation here, but the important point for this person in the article was this: IF NEPAL TURNS INTO A MAOIST TOTALITARIAN STATE, IT COULD ALTER THE SECURITY BALANCE THROUGHOUT SOUTH ASIA. IN THIS GEOPOLITICALLY IMPORTANT AREA, ALREADY RENT BY NUCLEAR-FUELED ONE-UPMANSHIP BETWEEN INDIA AND PAKISTAN, THIS IS A RISK THE WORLD CANNOT AFFORD (SU). |
| saunak | Posted
on 12-Nov-03 07:08 AM
Correction--I meant NY Times, NOT NT Times. |
| Deep | Posted
on 12-Nov-03 10:56 AM
yata tira ni chhapyo hai hamro gam ko khabar heri --- yo lekhne chai khai guru of love ho ki chelo chai ho --so ko barema bhane chainjo ramro gyan bhayena. afno gam ta khattam bho ni---afnai gam jana ni darlagna thalesi ni hunchha! Peace Hopes Dim Again in Nepal Violence Surges Following Collapse of Cease-Fire With Maoists By John Lancaster Washington Post Foreign Service Friday, November 7, 2003; Page A23 - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9798-2003Nov6.html |
| GP | Posted
on 12-Nov-03 04:05 PM
Its probably Binodh Chaudhary: "They call it a donation -- I call it extortion," said a prominent businessman, recalling the Maoist representative who sat across his desk several months ago and demanded 5 million rupees, roughly $70,000, for the cause. |
| shaiva | Posted
on 18-Nov-03 05:26 AM
Is it true that Ashu is slightly deranged, if not a confirmed maniac? It is a question, not a statement. |