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Whats hate bad?

   Pedaji wrote in the other thread "We al 22-Nov-03 VincentBodega
     BVji, This is not my original saying bu 22-Nov-03 peda
       Pedaji, Isnt it true that all these e 22-Nov-03 VincentBodega
         VB ji, you wrote 'I dont think theres 22-Nov-03 peda
           My friend VincentBodiga, Hatred, ill wi 22-Nov-03 vishontar
             Vishontarji, One sentence, seven word 23-Nov-03 VincentBodega
               VBji, I admire you for your debating sk 23-Nov-03 peda
                 Thank you Pedaji, I hope this was not 23-Nov-03 VincentBodega
                   Vbji, I sincerely meant what I wrote. I 23-Nov-03 peda


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VincentBodega Posted on 22-Nov-03 04:11 AM

Pedaji wrote in the other thread
"We all are suffering from mental impurities. Hatred, ill will, anger, animosity, anxiety, greed, lust, passion, ego, superiority complex, inferiority complex, meanness, selfishness, oh you name it. These all mental impurities are making us restless time and again. These impurities are making our mood off time and again. They are bound us to make mistakes which results misery. They are keeping us away from happy and harmonious life. We have to generate wisdom to fight with these mental defilements. We have to learn to eradicate these mental stains for the harmonious life. We have to work hard, so hard that we can ever thought of. From my own experience, it needs far more effort to fight against the mental defilements compare to the mundane success."

hate, ill will, anger, animosity...
are these really that bad? thats something I failed to understand. Whats the value of Love if theres no hate? wont be like trying to scale a baseless building? Again, arent Love and hate the same kind of feelings? The only difference I see is that they are opposite.
I would like to know what people feel and think about this.

BV
peda Posted on 22-Nov-03 05:15 AM

BVji,
This is not my original saying but I fully agree with it.

Now most people's ultimate aim in this life is to be hapy. We hope that whatever we do like money, prefession, nice car, nice house, good family etc will make us happy. That is why we want to have them. Happiness is a positive emotion. Whether we can really achieve them all and be truly happy is a different matter. As you know, human desires have no boundaries.

Now anger, hatred are all negative emotions. They will make neither you nor the people surrounding you happy. So they do not serve our purpose. Whether you can have total control over them is a different matter. As a normal human being, I cannot do that as as a result I end up messing so many things. But I am trying.

You do not need to be a sadhu to try to practice these things. A lot of great leaders and statesmen do it. To a cerain extent, these are the qualities that distinguish them from other people.

Just my thought. If you think I am wrong, I am happy to listen to your thoughts.
VincentBodega Posted on 22-Nov-03 05:46 AM

Pedaji,

Isnt it true that all these emotions that you refer to as "negative" emotions are the things that keeps us going in this ever changing world. Isnt it that feeling of unsatisfaction that motivates a person to work hard? Isnt it hate for the opponent that brings the best out in you? Isnt what every sport in based on? Even though its for a period of the game you have to really dislike the opponent and get into it to stop them from winning. Can you say that all the emotions that makes one a "better" person are negative emotions?
I dont think theres nothing wrong with hate. It can be defined wrong if you act on it. Just in the same way it can get you into trouble if you act out of excessive love.
Thats what I think...

BV
peda Posted on 22-Nov-03 06:41 AM

VB ji,
you wrote
'I dont think theres nothing wrong with hate. It can be defined wrong if you act on it. '

No offence meant but I think this statement is contradictory in itself. The question is how much you want to hate someone to bring the best out of you. And does that really make you happy? If so, for how long?What happens if you lose in the final resut? Does that make it more unhappy for you as a result of hatred?

If this works for you and you can have a happy family/commuity around you as a result, maybe this is good for you. I think everybody has to find the right mixture for oneself in this life. This also depends on your objective in life. There may not be an abject right or wrong answer here.

I personally think hatred and greed are all the root causes of violence and lack of order in our society which makes a lot of people unhappy.



vishontar Posted on 22-Nov-03 12:24 PM

My friend VincentBodiga,
Hatred, ill will, animosity..... these all are negative emotions. Why they are negative emotions? Because they are the cause of restlessness. Any negative emotion distrubs the balance of the mind that results agony. For example hatred, as soon as you hate someone, you must feel something odd, gross and uncomfortable. Isn't that the misery? If you hate some one or some thing, that will be your great displeasure to be with such person or things, you will try to avoid it, if you can not avoid the hatred will biget anger and anger begets restlessness, nothing more misery than restlessness. If you are restless, you can not imagine happiness. If the degree of restlessness is very high, then you will end up taking your life away, which is called suicide. Suicide is unbearable misery origionated from hatred.

Hatred, ill will, animosity, anger.... these all are offsprings of the abortion, which is cause of misery. I have mentioned on that posting, see the last sentence of the next para of the concern para...
<<
Most of us are don't even know the cause of misery are mental defilements, we think the life is always like this. But we suffer, don't we?
<<<

Since I have experienced these things, I have passed through all these steps. So my friend, you are the one who does not see the negative emotions are source of misery. You are taking love and hatred as the two aspect of a coin. I am really impressed from your question. Let me explain to you from my own experience.

Pure compassionate love is absence of hatred, the most closest analogy will be light and darkness. If your mind is overwhilmed by hatred, love can not exist, if love is there, you can not hate. Love and hatred can not coaxist simultaneously as light and darkness, because both are opposite. Passionate love is also an impurity that has different origion than the hatred. Passionate love is origionated from craving where as hatred is form abortion. Craving and abortion are the two main roots of the negativities. So, if I say the word love, that means compassionate love, the one way traffic.

When you love someone, you feel happy. When you hate some one you feel unhappy. Isn't it true? So love is source of happiness where as hatred is source of misery. Knowingly or unknowingly, all living beings are struggling for happiness. Lets talk about the mundane life, we struggle for wealth, why? Because that can give us happiness through sense doors. What is this mean? We have six sense doors, eye, ear, nose, tongue, skin and mind. You can see adorable scene through your eyes if you have money, that gives you happiness. You can hear delightful sound through your ear, you can taste delicious food through your tongue, you can smell beautiful scent though your nose, you can touch affectionate things through your body and you can feel proud through your mind. We all are running after these wonderful tastes, the source of all these lovely things is money. So, we all want to earn money. Some knows this fact but some does not, where as all most all of us are doing the same thing, looking for money, to enjoy the choice of our sence organs.

Some people are really wise, they experience that the fulfilling sensual desire provieds only instantaneous joy, thats all. A beautiful scene can not give happiness for longer time, a adorable music can not keep you happy for ever, and so on so forth. They investigate what makes us unhappy. They find, those are the mental defilements like hatred which makes us unhappy. If there is no hatered, there is no misery, no unhappiness. So they start to look for the technique to eradicate these mental impurities. If there is will there is way, they find the technique and start to wash up the hatred.

In the beginning when the chunks of massy hatred are washed one starts to experience love. Closest analogy will be, when rain falls from dark monsoon cloud, the cloud turns white and allows more sun light to the earh, and we feel bright. More we remove hatred from our mind, more love will be generated and we feel more happiness.

Hatred is negative emotion, you accept it. Hatred brings restlessness, this is natural fact. Restlessness is misery, nobody can reject this. Compassionate love is the source of happiness, this is also a fact. Love and hatred can not coaxist, this is another fact. Hatred can be eliminated and as much as hatred is reduced that much love is generated, you may or may not know this. Threre is a way to eliminate hatred and genereate love, you are informed. Now its up to you, whether you chose to eradicate your hatred or you feel hatred is necessary part of life. Now you can not say, life is like this, there is hatred, there is love, there is anger, there is ego, there is compassion etc.

Thre is choice for bright or dark. Hatred can be eradicated, anger can be abolished, ill wil can be ceased, one can live with love, compassion, joy, good will, ever and ever. One can live harmonious life, happy life, the life free from mental negativities. There is choice, you can not say, life is the combination of negative and positive emotions and both are necessary. I have experienced, and may other have experienced that negative emotions are uncessary rather poisionous. Happy life is the life, which free from negativities.

Please, feel free if you are not satisfied, we will learn from each other.

vihsowntar
VincentBodega Posted on 23-Nov-03 06:17 AM

Vishontarji,

One sentence, seven words... "Brevity is the voice of a soul."

Lets see what you had to say about hate...
You said its a negative emotion cuz it brings restlessness. Again I did maintain that "what you do out of hate might constitute it as something bad/wrong." What gives you the notion that hate always constitutes restlessness or misery. I know quite a few people that hated their state when they were in Nepal and hated the system there that to get back at the people who didnt believe in them then made somethign positive out of their lives. I am sure quite a few people can relate to this. So if you call hating something and working to irradicate that or in challenge of that as misery then may be thats something we all need to harness in life, because thats the zeal that propels a person from nobody to somebody.
No one comes out a victory without despising the counter result. No one stops smoking without hating it. No one accumulates wealth without despising poverty. Nepal wouldnt have gotten out of non-democratic systems without the hate for it. And so on...
It is for these reasons I say love stops a person from growing. Hate and how one handles it, constitutes growth and prospertity.
I think some of us are a little too much soaked in the stuff that we get spoon fed when are kids. yeah I was taught to love and not to hate. I was told that when I hate someone a demon resides in me. I dont think thats true for me anymore. I love people, I hate people. I dont go around Killing people out of hate and I dont go around kissing people out of love. I have my feelings for them and I dont see why its so wrong or socially unacceptable to say I hate someone. Does that mean that our society favors liars than haters?
Again think about it. whats the value of love to be measured in if theres to be no hate?
peda Posted on 23-Nov-03 09:02 AM

VBji,
I admire you for your debating skills. You can talk in favour of even 'hatred' giving so many points.Very few people would even attempt that because it seems so obvious.

I think you will make excellent progression in your life and career. I wish you all the happiness in life!

Peda
VincentBodega Posted on 23-Nov-03 09:10 AM

Thank you Pedaji,

I hope this was not intended as a "whatever dude, you are a retard and theres no point trying to convince you otherwise." :)

peda Posted on 23-Nov-03 10:00 AM

Vbji,
I sincerely meant what I wrote. I know that you are a very intelligent person and are debating knowing what is what.
Good luck!