| Username |
Post |
| ashu |
Posted
on 12-Oct-00 02:59 AM
Hi everyone,
I had a fruitful discussion with Martin Chautari's Bimal Aryal.
Bimal has been observing the Safa Tempo industry for almost
two years as an independent strategist. If you wish to be on his email list,
or if you wish to learn more, Bimal can be reached at: aryalbimal@yahoo.com or chautari@mos.com.np
I have also asked him to come visit this Web site.
Here is some background information to Biswo and other interested people
to reach their own conclusions regarding how
valid or useful was the Wall Street Journa's report.
1. Safa Tempos use basic, simple, functional, utilitarian technology.
The technology is simple so that maintenance work can be
performed easily.
2. The issue of "cable snarling" is NOT a problem for Nepal's
Safa Tempos. No wonder, then, the WSJ did not write about it.
3. Safa Tempos cover relatively SMALL distances.
That is to say, no one uses them to travel from Kathmandu to
Narayan Ghat or Pokhara.
But people use them to travel from, say, from Jawalakhel to Ratna Park.
This "short-distance" capability -- appropriate to move around in Kathmandu -- is
similar to that of electric golf carts and/or small vehicles that you see INSIDE, on
the corridors of airport-terminals.
4. Safa Tempos carry up to 12 Nepali passengers on one trip.
There are 630 Safa tempos on the streets of Kathmandu. About
300 Safa tempos do 10 round-trips (i.e. 10 continuous
loops from A to B to A) a day. The rest do 8 round-trips a day.
Assuming each trip is a "full-capacity" round-trip, you can do the
math re: how many passengers are served by 630 Safa tempos in
Kathmandu every day.
4. Though more efficient technology is always welcome, the issue of
overweight of Safa Tempos has NOT been a problem to warrant
serious concerns. After all, "overweight" in relation to what?
Like I wrote above, Safa Tempos have been carrying
up to 12 Nepali passengers on one trip -- from A to B.
(a) A Safa tempo weighs: 450 KG (total body weight).
(300 KG for batteries; 150 KG for the body).
(b) 12 Nepali passengers weigh, on average: 12 x 60 kg = 720 KG.
Assuming full passenger-capacity:
Total weight: adding a) + b) = 1170 KG.
To adjust for differences, let's give the weight in the range of
1150 KG to 1250 KG.
Now, is that overweight?
For a public transport such as a 12-seater Safa tempo, that weight
range is NOT considered "overweight" according to Nepal's transport
regulations. If one disagrees with Nepal's transport regulations, then
that's a separate issue altogether.
So, there you have it.
No wonder then too that the WSJ did not write about
this "overweight" ko issue.
5. Safa Tempos compete with other tempos: Petrol-operated three-seaters,
6-seaters and 12-seaters; and with cooking-gas-operated tempos. Diesel
operated tempos, though cheaper on account of cost per kilometer unit, have
been banned in Kathmandu on environmental grounds.
6. There are about 1600 petrol-operated tempos in kathmandu, and about 460
cooking-gas operated tempos. These compete with Safa tempos, as well
as with mini buses, Sajha buses, taxis, and micro-buses for passengers.
7. In the beginning, in 1996, the fares of Safa Tempo were higher than those
of other Tempos. Now, the fares are all competitive. And passengers seem to
be looking for ease in public transport.
8. From a cost stand-point, operating a Safa tempo is costlier to an entrepreneur
than operating a petrol- or cooking-gas-operated similar passenger-capacity
tempo. That's because electricity itself is expensive in Nepal. The Safa Tempo
industry pays 9 "ka road" rupees a year on electricity bills alone.
That is why, the Wall Street Journal, being a business newspaper, rightly talked
about the concerns of Nepali entrepreneurs who are thinking of ways to recover
their costs and making a return on their investments.
9. The Safa Tempo industry is NOT some foreign experiment in Nepal that we should
be suspicious of. Nepali businessmen have invested their own money into it. These
businessmen are in it for profits -- and not so much for naive
environmental do-goodism.
10. The Safa Tempo Industry has been employing a RECORD number of
women drivers. As I write these words, there are 24 Safa Tempo women already
working a drivers, and 16 more women are in the process of getting their licenses.
No other mode of public transport industry has given this many direct jobs to
women in Nepal. If anything, the Wall Street Journal missed out on reporting
this fact.
11. Safa Tempos have are also being used in OTHER towns in Nepal. There are
five already in Birat Nagar. There are two in Lumbini. Nepali entrepreneurs
are making plans to widen their distribution network across Nepal.
12. The major technological (R & D) issue facing the Safa Tempo industry is this: How
to make the batteries last longer.
These batteries are charged daily and, when charged, can travel up to 70 Kilometers.
Their lives run, on average, to 18 months. These batteries are costly -- so, if Nepali
scientists/engineers can devise cheaper, lighter and more efficient batteries, that
would be a big help to the Safa Tempo industry.
But that's the challenge for the future.
Meantime, the Safa Tempos run in Kathmandu -- with their challenges, promises and
usefulness.
oohi
ashu
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 12-Oct-00 10:03 AM
This is really a good posting.
Good luck to those who are pushing this to
market.
Biswo.
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 12-Oct-00 11:52 AM
Let this "good posting" be an example
to all that even if you do not know much
about a given topic, you can always
express some humility, and, if you are interested, set out to teach yourself new ideas/concepts and information by
consulting experts and resources that
are more knowledgeable than you are.
And only when you are sure of your information and firm on your basic
fact findings, then you can serve the
PUBLIC GOOD by sharing that information
with all.
This is the only way one can build
public credibiity.
Many thanks to Martin Chautari's Bimal
Aryal for teaching me stuff about the
Safa Tempo Industry -- stuff that was
useful to demolish the arguments put
forth by some self-appointed "skeptics",
If such demolition earns me colorful
names, well, that goes with the
territory!!
oohi
ashu
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 12-Oct-00 10:38 PM
>>
Many thanks to Martin Chautari's Bimal
Aryal for teaching me stuff about the
Safa Tempo Industry -- stuff that was
useful to demolish the arguments put
forth by some self-appointed "skeptics".
Ashu, this is a nice example of how irrationally gleeful you become when you
think (wrongly) that you are getting kudos for your posting. Actually my
rave comments were mainly designated for the fact that your posting was
actually corroborating what I said,however,you didn't even bother to see
that. See how:
I said two problems are prominent:(in my original posting)
1.Weight (because of battery, snarled cable mess etc).
2.Speed.
Your source says that battery weighs 300 Kgs out of total 450 Kgs. That's
exactly what is problem.Go and see the websites relating to these things,
you will find what I meant.Your reluctance to understand things (by not going to those websites) and immoderate penchant to heap derogatory words may have
satisfied your smugness, but that doesn't do good for your pursuit of knowledge.
Speed is ,as all concur, low, just 7.5 miles per hours.(I am not carping
about that however, because people are saying that is fine for KTM.)
Remember that cable snarling(and further weight) has been partially eschewed in
cost of the inconvenience of frequent recharging.
Now, if you think you have demolished by arguments posting that, that is
upto you. I don't see anything wrong in the perspective of your tenor of
writing stuffs, and resorting to self-aggrandizements.
and finally, remember that it is you who scolded me for not looking for facts
while simultaneously faulting for expressing my reservation on the article
because ,as I wrote, it lacked sufficient information to satisfy me.
Many thanks for providing some information about safa tempo.
Another of your arguments,about air visibility, seems to be equally invalid. I
have a short experience of working with a NASA-EPA scientist who was studying
air visibility problem in south.My reservation stems from the fact that I
can't allow myself to be swayed by superficial articles.two or three years of
period doesn't provide enough data for authoritative air visibility reading.
However, even if you do that,(to remind you, there was no mentioning of any
such study ,rather than commercial like comments..), it is mainly because of
sulphur dioxide that air visibility is affected.sulphur dioxides are emitted
by coal burnings, which is profusive in some of KTM factories.Carbon monoxide
which is emitted by diesel vehicles is secondary factor in air visibility. So,
what everybody can think of about ameliorating air visibility is :first if
such a tangible result has been achieved, then causes that were responsible for
sulphur dioxide and other supspensions particles may have been produced less.
In fact, the change in weather may also be a reason.Carbon Monoxide alone
is not capable of doing such a great stuffs in such a short span of time. And,
The most important thing is there is no mentioning of such thing in the
article.If such an article satisfies you, then that is your matter.But you
can't label me as being lackadaisical in fact finding, just when I was
looking for more fact.
How can you be so pertinacious to support an article without,until you talked
to Bimal which looked like only after you heaped so many attributes to me, any
authoritative knowledge on your part? That was probably one of the reasons that
you didn't like my straightforward tag questions.
In this perspective, if you think you have demolished my arguments, kudos to
your incandescent self-aggrandizement.
Biswo.
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 12-Oct-00 11:11 PM
Listen,
You brought three issues earlier:
1) One was of Safa Tempo's overweight,
2) The other one was of cable snarling.
3) The third was was how such foreign
experiments are duping Nepalis.
You blamed The Wall Street Journal for publishing INCOMPLETE report for it did not take your charges into account.
In the beginning, I POLITELY, let me repeat,
I POLITELY, said that you were entitled to you opinions, and hoped that that would be
that.
But no.
But you, in your infinite wisdom,
went ahead, spewing further garbage,
and, as if that were not enough,
grandly appointed yourself "a skeptic . . . who raises questions . . . for the development of the intellect."
That's when I lost patience with you,
If you had been posting CORRECT stuff on
this subject, backed up by evidence and facts, or had expressed even a modicum
of WILLINGNESS to learn from experts such
as Bimal (even when I gave you his email address to you), one would actually get to LEARN FROM YOU.
Instead, all this reader got was get just plain garbage -- your further
chest-thumping and all that.
So, I went out, did the basic research, posted my findings, and proved you
WRONG, WRONG and WRONG on all your THREE charges as far as they relate to Safa
Tempo in Nepal.
When people like Sangita complained about your bombastic writing, you instead of wrking hard to revise/rework your arguments you indirectly claimed that you were following the footsteps of Lance
Morrow . . .
Listen, I know Lance Morrow. Even
personally. You are no Lance Morrow.
And so, I have, with evidence, slammed your
basic self-image: That, despite your
claim, you are no skeptic. I have NOT
called you anything else.
But just count the number of charges you
have hurled at me: from megalomaniac
to one with superiority complex and God
knows what . . .
Listen, I don't need your adjectives
anymore, and don't care for your
conclusions about this episode.
I'll let the readers to decide what's
what and come to their own own
conclusions about this thread.
Over time, my readers have come to
expect clear, simple, straightforward and INFORMATIVE postings from me, and I will
live up to their expectations.
Now, if that and more are problems for you,
I could care less.
Have a good day!!
oohi
ashu
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 12-Oct-00 11:28 PM
Ashu:
Don't lose patience. Criticisms are not
detrimental to you,anyway. As for adjectives,
you started them with a long list.Sir.
By the way it is night here.
Biswo.
|
| Unknown |
Posted
on 13-Oct-00 12:18 AM
Hi, to both Bishowji and Ashuji
I am reading your posting regularly and i don't know both of you guys personally. Usually, i don't like to comment but this time i found your discussion little too much,in the sense you guys are now not trying to inform but trying to prove each other that "ko bhanda ko kam" and that both of you are arogant. It's becoming little too personal. This is for bishow, we all admit that you have very good command in English writing but it doesn't mean that everything you write has to be true or we (as a reader) have to understand it as you wish. There is so many complication in your writing, introducing new and big words is not enough here, you have to be able to make your reader understand what you are writing or why you are writing ? And if your reader is not able to understand what you want them to understand it's your responsibility to make them clear. So here, at first point when Ashu as well as readers like sangita and me didn't understand what were you trying to convey in your posting , i think your primary object should be to make us clear not to take comments personally and make it worse. I didn't really like the way you tried to explain your thoughts after Ashu's first comment and after. What i personally think is Safa tempo is definately much much better than Bikram tempo...........but it doesnot mean Safa is the ultimate solution for the Pollution of Kathmandu. What i understand from Ashu's view that we should support it till we get something better than that. Not to take personally again, but to tell you the truth, Ashu is much clear in stating his thoughts. And you should take lesson from Ashu's writing to be an effective writer. And should not take suggestions too personally that it seems us that you are trying to take revenge.
Well, i don't have good english; however, i tried to state my thoughts. I want to wish Good Luck! for both of you. try not to make things complicated.
HAPPY DIPAWALI
|
| Murali Adhikari |
Posted
on 13-Oct-00 12:48 PM
There are six important concerns that Biswo raised about an
introduction of safatempos in KTM--
1. Cable snarling and heavy weight of the battery
2. Slow speed
3. Problem of battery charging and battery disposal
4. Visibility questions
5. Possible deterioration of water quality by hazardous disposal of
batteries (which contains all kind of poisonous chemicals including lead,
and sulfuric acids)
6. US experiment
The US has tried to implement battery operated vehicles in several cities
instead all of those projects went belly up. Instead, it is now (in cooperation with several state agencies, EPA and DOT ) trying to depend on natural gas or electric vehicles or other rapid transit
transportation such as railway system. You have probably seen that in big
cities such as LA if you are familiar with it or new idea about NY and DC transit system.
Vehicle emission and resulting deterioration in Air quality has been a big
concern in the US. For example, LA had the worst air pollution among US
cities in 1980s, it has now come a long way improving not because of the
battery operated vehicles but because of other ways to curtail pollution.
Economics is always the tool. Policies towards reducing pollution have been
in act both at the industries level and at the city level which pollution is impacting severely. The main problem due to a vehicular emissions is increase ozone
concentration and high temperature just above the surface level. A little
informed reader can look at heat zone and smog effect site developed by
NASA for the city of Atlanta.
Yes, always less pollution is better than more. What I have found from
Ashu's posting is that he thinks Safa Tempo is going to be a panacea to solve air pollution problem in KTM. Which at least I think is not true.
While I admit that both of the two people have gone to a personal level to
attack each other, it is Ashu who started it with all four points in his
earlier posting branding Biswo of different adjectives. I hope you both
will tone down yourself and stick with more fact findings than a sweeping
judgement. I have found Ashu's reluctance to read FORD website simply
absurd.
Let me tell you both that you all need to do little bit work on the topic
before posting things. While I understand that it is just KURAKANI and
not any nationally accredited newspaper, I suppose fact findings will help
both of you. In that sense I commend Biswo's willingness to contact
environmental economists and railway engineers to resolve this issue. It
is rightfully so that Biswo can write in any bombastic way he prefers, but
that does not mean that he does not express his feelings well as one of
the readers here pointed out. Go look at few dictionary words, you might
as well learn few words. I have learn lot of new words by reading his
postings although I admit that it is not why I read his postings.
Two things about using bombastic vocabularies: I am against of the use
because you may leave lot of readers out from your logic. After all how
many words do we know that are used beyond our daily needs? But good
postings shouldnot be judged by the words, it is the things what the
posting want to express. If I do not understand words I look at
dictionary and try to understand what it says. And I think Biswo has put
together quite informative postings in many occasions (including the past
two on air visibility).
I have also found that the choice of words depend on when you start learning English and by what means. Biswo perhaps from being Chitwan and educated in public school in Chitwan did not have the same luxurious English background as Ashu has from his ST. Xavier's background. I do not envy Ashu's background or feel pity about Biswo's upbringing. Biswo started learning English from Lance's TIME article, while Ashu from his St. Xavier's English curriculum or better at English newspaper available in
Nepal. Biswo came to join a graduate school in US from China (as he informed in his earlier posting), he perhaps memorized all dictionary words to be well competent in his verbal section of the GRE for his computer degree. For him, it may look like simple or the bombastic words are the same because of his background and how he learnt English. I complement Biswo for his knowledge of the English words but feel sorry on the other hand that he cannot choose simple words in his postings in this site so that even a mediocre undergraduate in a two-year community college or a four-year liberal art college can understand.
Having said all, I suppose it is ya'll's judgement who is right or wrong. In my perspective, Biswo is a winner because he said there are so many problems with safa tempos and it will not be an elixir to solve a problem of air pollution in Nepal and justifiably that safa tempo itself is going to
be a cause of environmental problems. It is the efficient economic policy that dictates what should be done and it is the technical knowledge which can be used to solve the problem of air pollution in KTM. Ashu is a winner because he said despite all the problems it may be a viable short run solution forever deteriorating air quality problem in KTM. As for me it is the long run solution that we should focus on not the short run one. A myopic idea is the worst one than no idea at all.
Thanks to both guys for making this conversation lively. I want to encourage Biswo to write in his own style of writings and perhaps send an article in a nepalese newspaper with all the facts about safa tempos that he has collected so far talking to different experts. Ashu, please do the same thing. After all, Nepalese
people may want to read all these in their own language so may be you all should choose nepalese medium newspaper, will ya? There would be no confusion about yours posting if both use our native language to post the fact. I suppose both of you know Nepalese well and learn it from the childhood.
Wish you all the best.
Murali Adhikari
Ph.D. Student in Environmental Economics
The University of Georgia
|
| mabi |
Posted
on 13-Oct-00 12:54 PM
Hi Unknown,
You sound little phony and mistakes you made are obviously deliberate for the person who thinks in such a way and writes such English.
Why don't you write with your real identity?
The fun of reading and credibility of the writer decreases significantly when one sees
"unknown" writers. Many might not read, and if that happens, your efforts to convey your message is just waste of time. So don't waste your time.
However, whoever you are, enjoy the "word war".
Mabi
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