| Sajha.com Archives | |
| Username | Post |
| confused | Posted
on 25-Nov-03 01:11 PM
I have been posting this topic on many forums/newsgroups i go to so i just wnated to post this here at sajha too (ya i know its not a "tech" kurakani place taipani) and see what do our sajahties think abt this???(please give ur answer on very practical basis) many of you all have surely heard about Novell accuquiring SUSE linux and IBM also focusing on LInux ..IBM has been also investing a huge amount of money on Linux advertisement. (like one commercial with this kiddo..its tight) .. aight here is my point..what is "reallly" the future for linux...if linux starts growing bigger and bigger ..who will eventually own linux..or will it remain open source OS..and what will eventually happen to windows..??? aight i do have some other questions too...what abt CISCO systems ?? will it be gaing control over next decade..?? will microsoft remain this powerful?? as there will be far more competiontions in this networking and software market..is it possible for a new company to rise up and become powerful as microsoft right now??? |
| KALANKISTHAN | Posted
on 25-Nov-03 01:39 PM
If only I could answer those questions, I'd be having lunch will Bill Gates and dinner with Britney Spears rather than surviving on this burger they call "the king of the burgers". Great questions though, don't have no answer but some BS's! You are not up for BS are you? :P You really sound confused now! :P |
| Recon | Posted
on 25-Nov-03 01:41 PM
Linux is complicated system... It will take them lot to be like a microsoft...if you look at microsoft, you will realize how user friendly it is... In other hand linux complicated as hell....Some people say unix can do this do that which microsoft can....But look at it this way...90% of people use microsoft and they are just used to it.....and 10% out of those 90% are really good at computer...rest are dumb, when it comes to computer.....There is no way linux or any operating taking market as microsoft have....People don't like change, when it comes to thing which is hard for them to learn..... Microsoft will rule of long time ...But we all know, whatever goes up must come down...so microsoft will fall some day.....But it might not be in this decade... |
| salakjith | Posted
on 25-Nov-03 06:40 PM
Okay here is my take on this subject. I agree with KALANKISTHAN that MS does indeed have a major influence on the software market at the moment. But that influence has been limited to desktop market and only recently has Microsoft considered expanding into the enterprise market. But Microsoft has been constantly dodged by various security issues and has earned an ill reputation for being an insecure company, which is costing them dear. Linux on the other hand has managed to grow from being a non-significant project to now a major market player in a very short time. In fact, linux is already much more popular than Microsoft in the enterprise space. It has essentially taken over the market that previously went to proprietary UNIX systems. If you go by netcraft’s numbers, Apache server (which is open source and runs in linux) runs 64.61% of all the websites in the internet, while IIS (from MS) runs only 23.46%: http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_survey.html Also, linux has been able to achieve quite a hold on the desktop space. Many of the higher educational intuitions has strong preference for linux over Microsoft due to its open nature. And according to recent trends (http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/11/24/46NNdesktop_1.html), linux has gained huge momentum from big players to take over the entire desktop world. My bet is, within the next 2 years, linux will at least become as popular as windows in most of the major desktop market. As for Microsoft, either they will redefine their business strategy or go into the history as once-great company. |
| confused | Posted
on 25-Nov-03 09:46 PM
Recon and salakjith i agree with both of u all..people hesitate to learn new stuff tara like salajith said linux has been able to achieve quite a hold on the desktop space it might just take over..ani best of all its open... TARA I LIKED WHAT KALIKASTAN SAID...IF I ONLY KNEW THE FUTURE..KASSAM MR. BILLY SANGA LUNCH KHAII RA HUTHIYAAA:p altogether response i got frm many forums was Linux had a very bright future..tara khoii ke huncha bhaguwan janun ... thax for ur replies |
| czar | Posted
on 26-Nov-03 11:13 AM
Most computer users focus on the initial investment, such as the cost of the software and the boxes it runs on, and gauge it to be their total cost. This, however, is inaccurate and the truer measure of the actual cost is: TCO = product cost + operating cost & maintenance + disposal cost. where TCO is Total Cost of Ownership. It costs money and resources to operate an IT system. Other than the obvious electricity cost, it also requires investment in HVAC, power and telecom systems to provide the necessary environment to host and operate IT systems. There is the cost of the manpower required to operate and maintain the setup. Factor in costs for spare parts and maintenance contracts. Then there are the telcomm charges for the VPN, VoIP, DSL, T1/T3 lines etc required for the LAN/WAN. Finally, once the useful service life of the product is over, there is a cost associated with disposing of the system in a responsible manner. Many states have laws that impose hefty fines for irresponsible dumping of IT junk. It costs money to have old IT equipment carted away either for re-cycling or environmentally sound disposal. As an aside to the main issue, examine some numbers: the US now has close to 110 million PCs. All of this will be junk in 4 or 5 years. Calculate how many landfills this is going to require and how many tons of dangerous chemicals will leach out of decaying batteries, monitors and system boards. Imagine the impact on the environment, water sources, soil quality etc. As individuals, we can run to the dumpster and toss in that old monitor. This does ot always work for corporate IT users. The eventual environmental and social costs, hence possible litigation costs, maybe be ruinous. Therefore it is prudent and less expensive to adopt responsible disposal practices in the present. It is simply better business. Opportunity cost Consider the numbers from the 2002 FBI/CSI Computer Crime and Security Survey: - 90% of large corporations and US govt. agencies had security breaches in the past 12 months - 80% or these organizations acknowledged financial losses due to computer breaches - 45% were willing and/or able to quantify their financial losses and reported close to $ 500 million in financial loss. These are some statistics for security breaches. Given the issues of cyber-terrorism and information warfare, CEO’s are understandably nervous of the costs and impact associated with this. Easy penetration of Microsoft products poses a serious threat to productivity and performance. Nightmare scenarios have come through: some months ago, for several hours a worm disabled the ATMs and transactions servers of a well known financial institution on the US east coast. They were using a Microsoft OS based transaction server. This does not, however, come anywhere near the unreported, but many times more expensive, cost of lost business and opportunity of having anything less than rock solid server operating systems. For example, how much does it cost a company to have its email server freeze up? Surveys have identified email as a crucial business application. Having it go down for any length of time puts a spanner in the wheels of modern enterprise. It is also one of the most stressful events for IT support people and users. Anyone who has had their Exchange server freeze up and seen their CEO foam at the mouth understands what I am referring to. It is against this background that Linux must be evaluated for the solutions it offers and its future as a viable product. For corporate users, Microsoft has imposed increasing cost and restrictions with licensing rules. That is further exacerbated by its security and reliability issues. Being the 800 hundred lb gorilla on the block has its disadvantages: every hacker, cracker, script kiddie and rogue programmer on the planet finds Microsoft’s products as juicy targets to attack. Upwards of 90% of all viruses written are aimed at Microsoft products, thanks to its dominant market share. Fighting viruses and cleaning up after it adds megabucks to its ownership costs. Sure, it keeps Peter Norton in Ferrarris, but that aside, it doesnt add value or improve the IT experience. In such a scenario, Linux stands out as a beacon of reliability and safety. Its reliability is of an order much higher than that of any Microsoft OS to date. Usability is higher in that it doesn’t force the sys admin into cycles of endless service packs, patches and upgrades every time some rogue programmer discovers a new weakness. Platform: Linux can be tailored to operate on a wide variety of platforms; everything from Intel based PC’s, RISC processor based super workstations to IBM’s mainframes. Weight for weight, it handily outperforms the Wintel products and does it at a far lower TCO. Music to the ears of embattled CFOs with lean IT budgets. |
| czar | Posted
on 26-Nov-03 11:14 AM
The recently announced adoption of Linux by the Chinese government as its platform of choice provides further assurance of the emergence of Linux as a major player in the network OS segment. Brazil seems to have done the same in the past few days. Linux’s open source origins, stability, lower cost, power and flexibility have strengthened its case immeasurably against proprietary systems from Microsoft, Sun Microsystems, HP and others. To date, many CTO’s and IT managers founds it convenient to keep upgrading to other Microsoft products to protect their considerable existing investments. The legions of MCSE’s churned out by the IT training industry also provided a large pool of talent to run existing and future systems. Hence, using the Redmond WA’s company’s products on the server side was a no-brainer. That however, is under review amid growing dissatisfaction. Linux, however, faces a battle for adoption on the desktop. It requires a high level of knowledge and user sophistication to handle it. That is a hard sell. Lack of applications with appeal, especially productivity suites like Microsoft Office, is another factor holding back use of Linux. That however, seems not to have phased retail giants like Wal Mart that earlier this year started selling low cost $300 Linux boxes. Its success is sketchy and not well documented, but it was heartening to the open source community. The battle has been truly joined though, with the recent announcements from both the Chinese and Brazilian governments. Microsoft bashers found this a near heavenly proclamation. For Linux supporters it was a powerful endorsement of their arguments and vindication of their faith. Santa Cruz Operations notwithstanding. |
| czar | Posted
on 26-Nov-03 11:20 AM
[Bhool afai sudharera padhnu hai, as I still haven't aquired a Thesaurus] Happy Thanksgiving. Cheers ! |
| salakjith | Posted
on 26-Nov-03 01:21 PM
Despite what I said earlier, I am also of the opinion that open source and free software may not be sustainable in the long run. Many of the popular open source projects either have backing of commercial companies or are a product of a few enthusiasts. The case of commercial vendors like IBM and Sun wanting to support open source is probably to gain market share and give an impact on MS’s domination. As for enthusiasts, the enthusiasm may not be long lasting and sustainable. In the long term, free software can possibly only exist if the cost of producing such software is essentially non existence. For projects requiring substantial cost in terms of developer time and effort and cost to own infrastructure, free software does not pose as a good strategy. Just because Microsoft charges for software does not mean they are cheating. They may be charging higher than necessary due to their monopoly advantage, but it is not possible to infer from this that software is essentially a free commodity. |
| SMSainju | Posted
on 26-Nov-03 02:23 PM
Hi all, It's been a while since the very last time I was here. the topic, "future for Linux and Networking" caught my eyes as I was browsing thru and could not stop responding to it. I think, Open source is a great wave that many will ride for some years. I disagree with salakjith in the sense that it will exist regardless of the cost factor. in particular, Linux brings a more mature, true scalability, stability and realtime features many of its counterparts couldnot at the moment. It is not an OS for every tom, dick and harry, however. But I think there are many organizations, they are working intensely to prevail even the desktop share. In a mission critical operations, the most important factor is "stability." Just for this reason, many major labs thru out the US and europe, such as JPL, NASA, etc tend to rely profoundly on Linux/UNIX. I think it gives Microsoft a real challenge to compete in the free market. this is good for the industries. while back, i even heard that MS is thinking about making MS OS (code itself) available for free for its industry partners. But, nonetheless, MS is a 2000 pound Guerilla and will remain so for the time being. Mac OS is still around. But I think Linux is making good noise and starting to catch up. Many educational organizations and the government (developing countries) are adopting free open source movement to save some bucks. and i think it is slowly paying off on its own terms. SMSainju |
| JavaBeans | Posted
on 27-Nov-03 12:15 AM
Linux VS Windows The future of Linux is bright indeed, especially at the enterprise level. The beneficiaries include universities, IT/software houses, and governments. The reasons why these institutions choose Linux are manifold, of which one is it's a non-proprietay free OS (i.e. no licensing fees !! ) Some examples of Unis utilizing Linux: almost all of them; IT/software houses: Oracle, Sun, E-Bay, Google, Cisco, most scientific engineering firms, etc.; governments: at many levels- NASA, NYSE, etc., Japan, Brazil and S. Korea wanting to develop/ transfer to Linux recently. Given the amount of resources available to these institutions they are able to have their own big IT departments let alone hiring many Linux nerds. Same is not true for small to somewhat midsize companies/ governments. They tend to fall into the marketing gimmicks of Microsoft, and of course this is the mainstream market where Microsoft targets and invests heavily on; this is their strongest foothold besides the personal computing arena. Bottom line is Linux takes more effort than Windows when it comes to getting the most out of it, and the small/ midsize business owners along with PC users just don't have the resources to operate or make the change. So, at the moment, this is where Linux and Windws stand in either side of the line of scrimmage. Developer's Point of View The main issue with Microsoft is non-compatibility. From a developer's standpoint I can tell you, Microsoft is purely not interested in mixing and matching its product with non-Microsoft platforms. So, most non-Mircrosoft developers choose Linux as a platform of choice rather than Windows. In contrast, there are obsessed Microsoft developers who can't live without Windows. My point is that more often than not, developers run into the issue of compatibility during projects at which point they will decide on either Windows or Linux (rarely both although they exist among some multi-dedicated firms). Taking this into consideration along with most major IT firms supporting Linux rather than Windows, Linux is pacing itself in the small/midsize/PC market (it has already won the enterprise market). A couple of good examples-- Oracle9i's (from Oracle) support for object-relational mapping contains Java (from Sun Micro) data structures. E-Bay's e-infrastructure runs on IBM's Websphere platform, a J2EE specification (from Sun Micro). This ongoing trend will help Linux in the long term; it's very much possible for Linux to come in par with Microsoft in the next 10 years. I am not into network hardware. However, this is what I've heard in the street: networking gurus/analysts have been thwarting that Juniper Networks might give Cisco Systems and Nortel a run for their earnings within the next 5 years. -JavaBeans Melbourne, Oz |
| askme | Posted
on 27-Nov-03 01:01 AM
Beauty of Linux is that it is free. Linux is getting easier and easier everyday, but it is still difficult for normal users, But I think Linux will become more famous in future because it is free and transparent, you know what code is doing and you have lots of flexibility, but with Windows you don't know what Windows is doing behind the screen(May be sending some valuable, secret things from your computer to Microsoft or else where). After all it gives flexibilty, chance to explore and learn computer technology and more over it is free and lots and lots of softwares are being made everydays and they are free too..... So I feel it has future!!! |
| intruder | Posted
on 27-Nov-03 11:39 AM
The thing that bothers me is that Linux freaks can't take any criticism of their beloved OS, deriding the person who dares to disagree with them. And in their views, normal computer users are lower on the evolutionary scale than cockroaches. I've given up on Linux, I don't want to see the damn thing again. It may become a decent system one day, but it is fatally flawed by attracting the religious zealots. While people like that are around, Linux won't attract any normal computer users anytime soon, because the zealots scare them off. Among these Linux geeks, ridicule anyone who dares to use windows seems to be a standard practice, and they do so openly. I have seen Linux app crash four times in a row attempting to play an MP3 that plays flawlessly in my windows. I have seen Linux crash and hang for no reason. I use windows because it is usable and gets the job done. I want to use an OS that I can just use for all the things I need. I won't use an OS I can't do my stuffs on. What's the point of a program you have to reset every time you use it? Programs should not crash because you ask them to open a perfectly normal file. Linux is an unfriendly operating system, worse than Unix. Microsoft has done enough usability testing to know what people expect. Why do the Linux programmers ignore that advice? Because they're not writing the OS for normal people. They don't want us from the herd using their system. It shows in the programs, it shows in the chronic lack of useful documentation and the lousy help files. It shows in the obsession in the command line. Most of all, it shows in the patronising attitude of the Linux geeks. |
| confused | Posted
on 27-Nov-03 03:17 PM
dammn i did not expect such heavy replies on sajha about this topic.. thank you guys for sharing your thoughts and i did certainly learn many new things.. INtruder very true dude..100% correct..i liked what u said..my linux also crashes every time when i try to run some dvd movies..Linux has many many problems, BUT it has given rise to many Dreams which is completly not possible using MIcrosoft products coz of its expense..many COMPanies survives because of linux and its low budget cost..Linux was not designed to be beautiful looking but was created to create something IMPPOSSIBLE>>Linux shares ideas(open source) which is another BEautY OF linux..Different Ideas and Different minds of people have build linux ..Programing on LINUX is like traveling to heaven...but yes again LInux has not yet given a chance for normal users like us>>>THe very best thing about windows is it gives a normal user to take control..you dont have to know how things work to "work" in windows but linux is another long story.Yes that might sound a little awakad but think guys..would ur old grandma wud like to click ok or yes or no every time when u start your computer???.but intruder again linux was not made for porposes of playing dvd movies or mp3's..its was made to do things that are just above normal....(another back draw for normal users like us) aight guys i am in a hurry please read at ur own risk...lol grammer and spelling errors might be infinite..;) lol |
| salakjith | Posted
on 28-Nov-03 12:01 PM
Three Microsoft employees and three Apple employees are boarding a train to attend a conference. The three MS people walk up and buy their tickets. Then, only one of the Apple employees buys a ticket. The MS guys say, "Whoa! Wait a minute, how are you all going to ride with only one ticket." "You'll see," they replied. Everyone boards the train and the MS employees take their seats while all three Apple employees cram into the bathroom. A while later the ticket taker comes down the isles and takes the tickets from the MS employees. He passes the bathroom, notes that it says "Occupied" and softly knocks on the door. "Ticket please," he says. Slowly, the door cracks open, one hand reaches out and hands him a ticket. A few minutes later, the Apple employees emerge from the bathroom and take seats, much to the amazement of the MS employees. After the conference, on the way back home, the same employees are reboarding the train. The MS people, having deftly learned a new trick, buy just one ticket. The Apple employees then say, we aren't going to buy a ticket this time. MS peoples' jaws drop, but everyone gets on the train. The MS people quickly cram into the bathroom, and the Apple employees go into a different bathroom. After a couple of minutes, one of the Apple employees comes out of the bathroom, walks up to the door of the bathroom that the MS employees are hiding in, knocks on it, and says: "Ticket please" |
| recon | Posted
on 28-Nov-03 03:17 PM
Do you mean to say, Microsoft people are dumb.... |
| JavaBeans | Posted
on 29-Nov-03 06:40 AM
A firm here in Australia has done a comparison based on the total cost of ownership between the two OS. This was done a couple of years ago, in fact. So, to those of you interested, below is an interesting read. Keep in mind this article entails comparison at the enterprise level... Click Here -JavaBeans |
| bhole_babaji | Posted
on 29-Nov-03 10:24 AM
Linux and Microsoft OS are made for two different Purposes. Linux is suited for production and server environment. Where as Windows is consumer oriented desktop application. Right now The gain to Linux is not the loss to the Microsoft. It is loss to other Unix vendors. Ask SUN microsystems, why it is dying because of Linux. Linux has a desktop, but it is very primitive. It will take at lease 5-10 years to get to the current Microsoft desktop facilities. I used Red Hat 9.0 and I am not satisfied with its desktop. It is not for normal people but for people who are into computer business. Microsoft OS is unstable, but Linux has some of same problems when you goto desktop environment. I tried mozilla and netscape browsers and it hanged time to time. I had to kill the process. The word processor and other applications sucks. I installed the Nepali font to read the nepali news and it took me some time to do that. People without any computer experience will find it difficult to get it done. Microsoft can't give competition to Linux in the production environment because they are not stable enough. To me, MS will continue to dominate the Desktop environment for the next decade but Linux will rule the server world in expense of the Sun and other Unix OS. |
| username | Posted
on 29-Nov-03 05:11 PM
bhole_babaji I found a good "moorga". Could you please give me a detailed recipe of how you managed to install Nepali fonts in the RH9.0. I had a good deal of trouble and I had given up. Advance thx ! |
| bhole_babaji | Posted
on 29-Nov-03 09:15 PM
I don't remember if I did this but try this . I followed the instruction from a link form google. ________________________________________________________________________ for installing fonts say you have a fontfile called Gargi.ttf then give a command to copy fonts to /usr/share/fonts/default/TrueType in the font directory . ## to create directory mkdir /usr/share/fonts/default/TrueType (if dir does not exist create it) ## then to copy font file assuming font file is in your current directory e.g. cp Gargi.ttf /usr/share/fonts/default/TrueType ## then to install fonts ttmkfdir > fonts.scale mkfontdir ## Change to font truetype directory cd /usr/share/fonts/default/TrueType ## to add fontpath so that system automatically looks up the font xset +fp `pwd` (or add /usr/share/fonts/default/TrueType to XF86Config) ## Alternatively to add fontpath to system you may issue following command fc-cache ## if you are using RedHat 9.0 or later then you can check for fontpath chkfontpath --add /usr/share/fonts/default/TrueType ## if the path is correctly set, you will see your fontpath /usr/share/fonts/default/TrueType in Listings ## You can also find if the font is already installed by giving following command fc-list fc-list shows all the installed fonts in that look for Gargi:style=Medium Good luck |
| username | Posted
on 29-Nov-03 09:54 PM
thanks Bholebaba jee, i will try one last time ! |