| Username |
Post |
| sparsha |
Posted
on 17-Jul-01 09:05 AM
Just by standing on Nepali land one does not become a Nepali. I saw a picture of children "nepali children" posted on this site. I am not here to argue wheather the picture is from B'nagar or some other places or what make/model the car is at the background.
I have spent couple of years in terai (don't know wheather that qualifies me to identify myself as a terai Nepali) and I have seen children like those in the picture. However, I also did notice a lot of people from the other side of the border were establishing themselves as Nepalis. They were building temporary shelters on public land and gradually replacing those shelters to a sort of "pakki" houses with antennae. Those shelters and houses were alarmingly increasing in numbers. The local people rasised their voices against such invasion of Biharis but politicians were busy turning those chhimeki biharis to citizens so they could grab some more votes. Now, those shelter people are running businesses and establishing themselves as so called Nepalis. This trend has encouraged many more bihari/UP bhais and Bangali bandhus to migrate to our land.
It's sad to see children (Nepali or not) in such a poor state but if we blindly let our chhimekis to settle in our public land then we better get used to- and prepare ourselves to see- the picture of so called "Nepali Children" everywhere in Nepal.
sparsha
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| care |
Posted
on 17-Jul-01 10:17 AM
sparsha:
Your concerns are genuine. but let me tell you this too. it's mostly the marwaris (and other smarties), people who can wheel themselves around, who end up getting citizenships.
The real madises (as the ones in the picture), they (or their partents) are still overwhlemingly disenfranchised (supposing that they did come from B'desh or Bihar, or bengal have now qualified for citizenship). I say this as someone from Terai myself. I am not a great fan Gajendra N. Singh and Sadbhwana Party but the fight for citizenships for thousands of madises is based on genuine grievances. What do you say?
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| sparsha |
Posted
on 17-Jul-01 10:46 AM
Sure Care, I strongly support the voices of those Madhesi Nepali who are fighting for their right to have the citizenship of the nation they belong to. However, I firmly reject G. N. Singh as a Nepali leader. He does not represent the people who he claims he represents. He just uses them for his political gain.
I also have doubt that only marwaris or others with some money are getting the citizenship. I also have noticed some of those shelter people with citizenship courtesy of so called leaders and their mai bap like Badri Mandal/G.N. singh...and other suckers.
sparsha
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| care |
Posted
on 17-Jul-01 02:36 PM
sprasha:
i see your point. but aren't all politicians that way. why single out G N Singh? he took up the Madise cause because our mainstream political parties - dominated by pahadiyas - continue to turn a blind eye to the disenfranchisement of madises. G N Singh only is the emobodiment of that grievances. the person is unimporant here - the political philosophy is.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 17-Jul-01 03:04 PM
The concern raised here about Madhise Nepalese and encroaching
foreigners is genuine, but I regret the accusation labelled
against a dynamic and industrial community of Nepal: Marwaris.
As a rich and industrious community of Nepal, they deserve praise
not collective vitriol from faceless critiques.Nepalese should learn from their talent.
Please don't use such communal word as long as it is possible.
My small request only.
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| sparsha |
Posted
on 17-Jul-01 03:49 PM
Biswoji,
If you think Care's response "it's mostly the marwaris (and other smarties), people who can wheel themselves around, who end up getting citizenships. "labelled the entire Marwari community as bad then you also made the same mistake by potraying the entire community as not bad but good (is this a fair interpretation?) "As a rich and industrious community of Nepal, they deserve praise
not collective vitriol from faceless critiques.Nepalese should learn from their talent. "
We all know there are good Marwaris and bad Marwaris. However, I also agree that the entire community shouldn't be judged based on the behavior/life style of some members(?).
sparsha
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 17-Jul-01 04:13 PM
Sparshaji:
I think when we label some charges against a community, we must
be careful. Criminals should not to assigned any community
tag, because that helps to create stereotype among other
communities about those stigmatized community.
I think it is good to absolve a whole community, and single
out individual criminal if we want to do so.That careji pointed
marwari(that is the only community he wrote) as capable of
manipulating system only helps to create unfavorable image of
the community in society.
I think one of the ways racial harmony in [our] society can be
maintained(Which is a job of all of us) by is avoiding such
examples.The more we use such example, the more harm is done.
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| dareelingey(ni) |
Posted
on 17-Jul-01 08:45 PM
well, this is indeed a very interesting topic and one that is close to my heart as well.
I'm sure most of you people know how Sikkim was literally taken over by India (in the 70s I think) and one of the methods that was used was apparently by smuggling a lot of "Indians" into Sikkim and then having an election - which was, then, won over by the Congress(I)(obviously). I don't know how far this story is true but as far as I'm concerned, never in my lifetime would I want India to do the same to Nepal.
Therefore, this might be a good time to smuggle some of the muglaneys back home and grant them citizenships so that if there should EVER be such a situation, people are prepared. So, maybe Sparsh...this is a time to reconsider your thoughts on the matter.
Be it in Nepal or elsewhere, we're all still Nepalis (or aren't we?). Gadha ley bagh ko chala lagayo bhandai ma bagh kaha bancha ra hoina? or vice versa. :)
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 17-Jul-01 10:38 PM
I have great respect and love for those Nepalese who are living
and struggling in Darjeeling.I also don't doubt their contribution
towards the cultural enrichment of Nepal, and for pride of
all Nepalese as a race.
However, I don't think we should provide them citizenship without
consideration of their talent.
As a nation, Nepal belongs equally to Madhises and Pahadiyas. Just
as we can't provide citizenships to millions of foreign relatives
of Madhise Nepali , we can't provide citizenship or any other
facilities to Nepali speaker Nepalese in Bhutan or India or any
other country including USA.
Talented people like Tulsi Ghimire, Paras Mani Pradhan, Lainsingh
Bangdel are free to live wherever they want. They deserve Nepali
citizenship if they want to have one. Also, Nepalis living in
India can live in Nepal as long as they can, which is provided
by Indo-Nepal treaty.
More than that, we must think it in political way. Nepal belongs
to those who lived, born, worked etc.. in Nepal (as described
in our constitution). No trespassing of constitution should
be allowed in the pretext of emotional affinity.
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| darjeeling(ni) |
Posted
on 18-Jul-01 08:49 AM
Biswo,
my message was more on a lighter note. I'm sure if you asked most people of Darjeeling to relocate or become part of Nepal, their response would definitely be negative considering the circumstance(the influx of Indians/Indian businessmen). :)
I was just bringing to attention about what had happened in Sikkim. And at one point, the Nepalese government has to put on the table about what could be happening (influx).
I saw earlier that you had supported the trade of the Marwaris(btw-this is not a derogatory term for them) but let me tell you the flipside of this. I am related to a Marwari who had friends in Kathmandu and the last I know, the money that they do make in Nepal is invested back in India. Now, Im NOT generalizing, I'm merely quoting what was said to me. I am aware there are families who have been in Nepal for generations (the last I knew, Nepal did not support dual citizenships nor does India - if you get the gist of what I'm trying to say).
The last time I was in KTM back in 1997, I had to buy something in Bishalbazar and when I approached the salesperson in Nepali, he said "thoda rukiye" and went to fetch someone who could converse in Nepali. That says a WHOLE LOT to me and was very very upset. I'm not goading and I hope people will take this positively, almost EVERYBODY in darjeeling who wants to do business speaks our vernacular language! And those who don't, don't get the local business.(The word vernacular was used because I don't think its gorkha bhasa like some people in Darjeeling would like to call it, and also because some think its not Nepalese at all (well its not french either!)
I am sorry to hear your POV on the Bhutanese Nepalese. I don't think they like being in that position either but you've got to have some thought about how the Indians picked them up on one side of the border(Bhutanese) and dumped them onto the Nepalese border. I was amazed to see that the Nepalese government had NO CONTROL over this issue. What was the reason behind this quiet acceptance? Its not like Nepal can support its own population that it HAD TO take in refugees. But then, the very fact that they (Bhutanese Nepalese) were taken in could be an emotional factor :) and that the Nepalese people/goverment care about what happens to Nepalese people no matter where they are. Just a thought!
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| care |
Posted
on 18-Jul-01 10:31 AM
Biswoji:
It wasn't my intention to slur the Marwaris as a whole.
As a Teraibasi, I have well aware of their industry and ingenuity. Sorry to all Marwaris, and all other Nepali friends, who felt that my remarks were offensive. I perfectly understand their concern. To stereotype a community is to deny them their humanity.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 18-Jul-01 04:43 PM
First of all, thank you careji.Nepal ,after all, belongs to a
diverse cultural group, and only in our unity, we can thrive.
As for Darjeeling friend, my intention is not to evaluate
whether Nepalese outside Nepal wants to relocate to Nepal or
not. My intention is to make it clear what connect us as
well as what differentiate us.
In deed, there are Marwaris working in Nepal, doing business in
Nepal, and sending money to India. But, that is not offense
in itself.First of all, there are a lot native Nepalese also
who loot Nepal and hoard their money in India. After freedom,
even Mohan Shamsher went to Bangalore with his treasury. It is
a job of our government to maintain our rule, make sure the
businessmen are paying tax properly, and if necessary, ask them
to put (a part of) the profit back into Nepal.
We must not forget that there are hundreds of Nepalese businessmen
in Lhasa. They bring money back to Nepal. There are other
businessmen in India who brings money back to Nepal. It is a
matter of policy. Because of open border between India and Nepal,
not only Marwaris, but also other Nepali from India come freely
to Nepal and do businesses.
I have great respect for Nepalese living abroad. But what we all
must understand is that Nepal is a country, not a group of
racially identical persons. We can't be prejudiced to a particular
group of people.
All Nepalese were sad when Sikkim was annexed by India.We are
still afraid of Lendup Dorjeys in Nepal.In fact, the risk is
mainly possessed by Lendup Dorjeys, and Wangchuks rather than
Bihari workers or Marwari businessmen.The goodwill of Nepalese
living abroad is always appreciated.
---------------------------------------
Here, I want to write about my frustration regarding Ghising.
Ghising was extremely radical from the start. He started armed
struggle, and before that he fired two letters :one to king
Birendra asking for his help, and another to Mr Rajiv Gandhi
warning him about his demands.
It is not hidden that Mr Ghising tried to involve Nepal in his
struggle. Nepal couldn't afford to openly involve herself in
his struggle, and Nepal didn't heed him later, despite the
outpouring of sympathy for Gorkhalanders in Nepali public and
media.
However,Ghising later was used by Rajiv Gandhi.When Gandhi used
him, Mr Bashu understood the central politics, and he also used
him.Now Mr Ghising is given a reign and coffer of a part of Nepali
population. He still spews anti-Nepal comments, and in his
delirium, he has coined words like "Gorkha bhasa", "Gorkha Land".
These words are widely unacceptable in Nepal, because Nepal is
not Gorkha. Gorkha has a lot of Magars, but not a lot of
Limbus,Chepangs, Yadavs etc who are also part of Nepal. Most of
us from Nepal doesn't even have 'goru becheko saino' with Gorkha.
I am of the opinion that Nepal is better in not heeding political
agenda of highly-emotional leaders like Nar Bahadur Bhandari and
Subas Ghising. (Have you heard the news that Mr Bhandari is
joining Congress I?)
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