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| Biswo | Posted
on 19-Jan-04 10:09 PM
A dead man is more alive in Nepal than anywhere else in the world. [Adapted from a famous Spanish adage.] A personal note for this posting: The poster strongly condemns all acts of killing. ---- 2018 saal Magh 9.[Almost Exactly 43 years ago.] Fresh from his royal coup, king Mahendra was touring Morang/Jhapa/Janakpur. In the airport, he was sorrounded by the militarymen, his entourage, and others. Outside the airport, thousands of people were waiting to have a glimpse of the man who was their king. Some people were waiting to garland the king as a token of respect and welcome as was the tradition. Suddenly, security forces swoop upon a 18 years old Madhesi man. His name was Arabinda Thakur. He was waiting to offer the garland to the king. Those who were with him in the line wouldn't immediately know the reason of the arrest of the man. Later it would be known that hidden in his garland were explosives that could have killed the king. The king ,after the procedure of the airport, then proceeded to Ram Janaki temple. Like all the kings of Indian subcontinent, he was also a beneficiary of the religion that put him in par with the god of the land. He surely was indebted to the god/goddess/religious. After Ram Janaki temple, he proceeded to the Rangabhumi, where a civil reception for him was being organized. On the road, a man, his name would later be known as Jogi Shah, stretched his hands and beckoned to the king that he wanted to petition the king about something. The car was stopped. At that moment, on the car of the king, flowers/wreathes were thrown, hidden in which were crude explosives. The trunk of the car suffered some damage. The king's coat had some minor burn. Jogi Shah was immediately arrested. The man who threw the bomb at the car of the king was a 20 years old man, who fled to neighboring India immediately after that. His name was Durga Nath Jha. He was later arrested under a mysterious circumstance. Even his detractors agreed that Mahendra had a knack of a politician, and a very good oratorial skill for a king. Mahendra had a particularly tense relationship with his father Tribhuvan. His second marriage was against the wish of his father. He was not the darling son of his father, instead Himalaya Shamsher and Basundhara were more trusted. He even suspected a lot of times that his father was not going to award him with the throne. During the reign of Juddha Shamsher, he had sent a message to Juddha Shamsher saying that although his father was a Congress supporter, he wasnot. It had hurt Tribhuvan a lot and he must have often wondered whether his eldest son was fit to be a king at all. King Mahendra after the Janakpur bombing incident mentioned about that incidence in almost all the reception he received in the kingdom. The anti-king movement would later slowly peter out. Two years after that incidence, on Poush 14,2020, Durga Nanda Jha was sentenced to death by the supreme court. It is not sure if any other civilized country kills its citizen for 'trying' to kill a head of state. If a head of state had been killed, then the sentence would have been a very predictable in such circumstance.Thakur's sentence would later be commuted to a long term prison. It was later rumoured that the two persons who arranged for that assassination were Bharat Shamser Rana and Saroj Koirala. Saroj Koirala would be gunned down by assassins in 2030 Bikram Sambat. Surya Bahadur Thapa, after he was impeached in 2040 Asadh, had organized a mass meeting in Itumbahal, where he revealed that during Panchayat era, a shadowy group was formed to kill political leaders. The leaders of that 'assassin's squad' comprised of Panchayat veterans like Damodar Shamsher Rana, Jogmehar Shrestha, Dil Bahadur Shrestha and Lila Raj Bishta. On Magh 15, Durga Nath's mom and wife were brought to Kathmandu Central gaol.The strange rule of the land at the time was that although a condemned prisoner would know he was sentenced to death, he wouldn't know when. For Jha, now it was revealing moment that he was being killed soon. He asked his mom to take care of his newly wed wife. He also asked his mom to be proud of her son and that her milk had been of use to the land that they belonged to. At that time, he was finally informed that he was being hanged later in the night. He was asked if he had any remaining wishes. He said he wanted to read the Gita. He wore western suits and tie, and then solemnly read the Gita. It is difficult to know what he felt. The Gita, a lesson about life and death from the great Dharma Kshetra Kurukshetra which first started the notion of Karma, would be finished reading soon. The Central gaol didn't have any facility for hanging the condemned. So, a make shift facility had been made. Jha was taken to the facility where an emotionless hangman was waiting for him. The hangman covered Jha's face with a hood, while some cowering prisoners watched from the distant . Mr Jha, a very young man who would be the first Brahmin to be sentenced to death in the Hindu kingdom of Nepal, shouted loudly before the hangman removed the trapdoor beneath his feet:" For a permanent democracy to take its root in Nepal, monarchy should be abolished first." |
| chordaku420 | Posted
on 20-Jan-04 06:10 AM
Thanks Biswo for the nice one. I enjoyed reading it. Down with Gyane and Parase. F*** those basterds. |
| M.P. | Posted
on 20-Jan-04 09:28 AM
Interesting read, Biswo. Not being picky, but I do not see any source citation here, except for the Spanish adage, which I assume is for the title. Or am I not getting it right? I wonder where the people who had a vision for Nepal 85 years ago disappeared. Was the establishment so strong to supress/get rid of the opposition so effectively? |
| Biswo | Posted
on 20-Jan-04 11:20 AM
CD420: I'm glad that you enjoyed it. Let's avoid swear words :-) MP: The reason why I didn't give citations here was because I wanted to make a sajha posting just 'a sajha posting: easy to read, flowing and easy to start a discussion. Now that you have asked, my major source for the incidence in Janakpur is Ajako Nepal (By Hema Raj Adhikari), for Mahendra's relationship with Tribhuvan is his own trusted Nara Shamsher Rana (In his recently published biography: Oohaakai Juwaani), and of those related to Surya Bahadur's famous Itumbahal speeches are gleaned from several sources since the speech was so famous for being fiery. More recent things like the murder of Saroj Koirala and Surya Bahadur's impeachment etc should be fresh to a lot of sajha readers:-) |
| Nepe | Posted
on 20-Jan-04 11:25 AM
Very timely piece ! Thanks for sharing, Biswo. Talking about martyrs, I remember the picture of the brave young boy who dared to break the shripech of Mahendra's statue in front of the royal palace with a stone during the peak of 2046 ko Jana-andolan, who fell from the bullet of the royal police but also made Panchayat fall right there. Was the boy identified ? |
| Bilbo Baggins | Posted
on 20-Jan-04 12:48 PM
"Giving" Democracy to Nepalis is like giving Chaurasi Benjun food to a starved homeless... he would probably chock to death!!! And that's what will and is happening in Nepal. This is a scenerio! G will not be a player in a year or two. P will take over and rule like Rana/Hitler did and basically destroy Nepal! We should all be for democracy but first get rid of these Maoist elites, who are mainly religious and economic elites BTW, and let's establish a rule of law!!! You DONT need to get rid of the Monarchy to establish the rule of law ... just get rid of the anarchists and atankbadis! And then establish rules to get rid of the Monarchy if we must!! |
| Biswo | Posted
on 20-Jan-04 03:51 PM
Nepe, I think I read about the man who stoned the Mahendra statue somewhere long ago. May be in Himal or Nepal or something like that. He definitely shouldn't be in oblivion. But again, those who died, those who fought, they didn't die/fight for recognition. They fought because they believed that it was necessary to fight. Gradually, even in oblivion, even in being a man with no name, he will remain a symbol of courage. The most enduring symbol of people who rebelled against the age-old brutal system of monarchy in Nepal. There are some other instances when kings were directly attacked in our history. In 1863, Sher Bahadur Shah attacked Rana Bahadur Shah(technically, he was a regent at the time, not a king). Apart from attack on Mahendra that I mentioned above, there was similar attack on newly invested king Birendra in 2030 in Biratnagar(The two arrested for that incidence, Captain Yagya Bahadur Thapa and Bhim Narayan Shrestha would be executed later even when their petition was still pending in supreme court). But it is interesting to note that the most debilitating attack on the king in the modern Nepal came not by attacking directly at his body, but by smashing his statue with a stone. Bilbo Baggins: I primarily intend this thread to be a rumination on historical perspective of anti-Monarchy movement. I think in a current context, monarchy is worthless system for Nepal, and I have spent a lot of times in sajha advocating this. It is always a road trip to deadend when I discuss that with a monarchist(I don't mean you, here).It is very difficult to argue with the proponents of monarchy who said:" if Gyanendra goes now, then who will rule Nepal? " Even for the proponents, it is not a theoretical aspect that they deny. They just want to blackmail us into submitting to Gyanendra because, presumably, Girija or Madhav Nepal are worse off than the monarchy. It is hard to discuss with the myopics, and even harder to persuade them. So, let's drop this thing here, and think about something else. Why is it that all fatal attacks against monarchy came from within? And why is it that the monarchy treated people like Durga Nath Jha, Yagya Bahadur Thapa and Bhim Narayan Shrestha the way it did? Did it achieve anything by killing the people who 'tried' to kill them? The discussion regarding this should also provide a perspective on how the monarchy is 'uniting' Nepal, how magnanimous it is vis-a-vis dissenting and aberrant subjects. |
| mickthesick | Posted
on 20-Jan-04 03:51 PM
.What do Maoists really want? |
| qallu | Posted
on 20-Jan-04 07:06 PM
While I understand what you said above about not giving citation..."because [you] wanted to make a sajha posting just 'a sajha posting: easy to read, flowing and easy to start a discussion," I have to disagree with you, Biswo, that the nature and content of the subject are such that without attributing who said what and how the assertions made are backed up, the piece becomes no more than what you might have intended it to be in the first place - mere anti-monarchist propoganda. You say that your discussions with "monarchists" here have been "road trips to deadends." Well, I have to say "of course!" Firstly, labelling people "monarchist" because they might not be ready converts to your political world view will only antagonize and alienate people. Secondly, unless you are willing to go beyond "ruminations" and address the issues and do due diligence to back up those ruminations, the discussions will no doubt end in deadends! I did enjoy reading your "rumination"... it was enlightening and makes me ask questions, which is a good start. But if you are truely seeking to be an "advocate" for "anti-monarchis" and not just looking to preach to the choir, then I say please show some respect to those who don't already agree with you by backing up your claims with verifiable truths..... I am especially disturbed that you use Surya Bahadur Thapa's "fiery" impeachement speech in Itumbahal as a reliable source of information about who made up the alleged "assasin squad"! I am not doubting that there was such a thing, but without it is intersting that you take Surya Bahadur's worlds for it! When it serves your purpose, I see you do not hesitate to use the hate speech of people like SBT. That to me makes very apparent your bias! For I can not imagine what else he could have said that you would have taken verbatim as word of God without a question as to proof and his motive! "The hangman covered Jha's face with a hood, while some cowering prisoners watched from the distant . Mr Jha, a very young man who would be the first Brahmin to be sentenced to death in the Hindu kingdom of Nepal, shouted loudly before the hangman removed the trapdoor beneath his feet:" For a permanent democracy to take its root in Nepal, monarchy should be abolished first." Rousing! I guess it is noteworthy that he was a Brahmin. What was Thakur? Was he a Chettri? or a Tharu? Why is his ethnicity not worthy of note? And were those Jha's exact last words? if so, how was it recorded? and by whom? or are they yours? If the latter, I say Bravo! However, appropriating the last words of a dead man seems especially unscrupulous. Regardless, again, Rousing! |
| sparsha | Posted
on 20-Jan-04 07:58 PM
It is always a pleasure to read Biswoji's posting. Facts, which mark the limitation of truth, are not only relative at times but are subjective as well. I found the above piece is highly subjective and some elements of facts are thrown here and there to serve the already established bias. Biswoji and many other fellow posters here in sajha do not need my redemption to defend their points as valid and at the same time I do not belong to any bhajan mandalis either for aasirbad. So far I have not heard nor read anthing substantial on how does Nepal benefit after monarchy. Ok, monarchy is bad but what is to follow monarchy? Tell me about the replacement alternative. I am not taking about sovereign people will have the power and one of the janatako chhoro/chhori will become the president of the republic of Nepal. Let's assume a commoner, not a bhate from bande-mataram bhajan mandali, becomes the preseident. Then what? Now, with this question am I defending Gyanendra? Absolutely not. The major soures of problems our nation is facing do neither come from Gyanendra's quarter nor from Prachanda's. In fact, most of the problems are not even political. Unless we address poor status of socio-economic growth (with significant stress on economic factor), our nation will continue to be in the bhumari of chaos regardless of the monarchy. Parochial self interest is the guiding force for our so called political insititutions. People come out and shout against regression, they can chant against Gyanendra but when it comes to saying " Prachanda Murdabad", our students and their maipbaps are nowhere to be seen. We see Gyanendra playing politics but don't dare to raise our finger against Baburam or Prachanda. Are not Maobadis threat to the democracy we love to talk about? Maoists have killed thounsands but that's ok. But paras is the worst right? I am not saying we should chant Paras Murdabad or Prachanda Murdabad. What am I saying is we are damn coward. Not all who die chanting a slogan or breaking a statue are martyrs. Sacrifice has to be deliberate for recognition. Crowd guided spontaneous acts can not always be mounted to the status of martyrdom. Why are Maobadis not martyrs? Are they terrorists or martyrs? We love to blame others. We love to ignore the socio-economic turmoil that generate and enhance maobadis desperation but try to bring prachanda and baburam to the table and try to solve the problem. Majority of our fellow citizens live under the poverty line and if Prachanda or Baburam dare to say that they can take those desperate fellow nepalis, then why not support them? what other choices do they have? What plans do we have for them? We can run our mouth from the comfort of our homes and offer solutions to every problem there is. If we are not coward, then who is? If Gyanedra is buying all those luxury cars from the state's money, Shame on him. But I say, let's gather our acts together first. Let's be united. He will still be in Narayanhiti. Can we be united for the sake of all those who are struggling to survive for themselves not for Gyanendra or Prachanda or GPK or MKN or you tell me who? Can we? |
| Biswo | Posted
on 20-Jan-04 08:14 PM
Qallu: I appreciate your questions. Well, as for using Surya Bahadur's post-impeachment speech ,yes, I used them here to serve my purpose. What's wrong with that? Surya Bdr is presented by present day Monarchists as a PM to us. I think monarchists must be very proud of him as that's the best they got out there. At least that's the best their master got out there. If Surya Bahadur doesn't know Panchayat well, who knows better? His Itumbahal speech was comparable to reading "The Price Of Loyalty" these days. Surya Bahadur was the minister in the first Mahendra-made government. Surya Bahadur also helped Panchayat to win the maligned 2036 election. He was a paladin of Panchayat's cause. The same fella told the nation about the existence of assassination squads/bhumigat giroha/etc. You should also see it clearly that for the sake of bringing out truth fairly, I have also included the rumour that Saroj Koirala and Bharat Shamsher were rumoured to be behind the plot. I always assume sajha readership to be a talented pool of Nepali people who will sift the fact themselves.My job is to report what I have found to be true and assume responsibility for what I write here. >I guess it is noteworthy that he was a >Brahmin. What was Thakur? Was he a >Chettri? or a Tharu? Why is his ethnicity > not worthy of note? Because Mr Arabinda Thakur was not sentenced to death. The reason why mentioning Durga Nath Jha's Brahmin root was important was because it was the first time in Nepal that the state had officially executed a Brahmin. It was a watershed moment in our criminal justice system since ,as we know, Ranas didn't kill the Brahmins. See it is a problem with you. When you are angry, you fail to see rationale behind the logic. You throw in suggestive words. I don't want to connect you with Saubhagya, but when I asked him whether he went to Inner Mongolia or not, his reply was to invoke the whores there, implying that they were taught some tricks by me. I shudder at the thought of conducting meaningful discussion with the people who suddenly shunt to different track, a track of indecency. I am not interested to preach the choir. Still, I am , using the right vested in me by the freedom of expression here, not interested to engage myself with some feckless posters whose response could be anything.I always choose to stop the engagement when it ventures into the domain of indecency. There is no point. For example: You are unknown, unanimous and I am fully known here. There is an implicit advantage for you: you can choose to pick or reject a thread without assuming any responsibility. I can't. You can throw in suggestive words and still loudly shout in defiance, I can't.So, I choose to reject conversation with some people because I understand that such conversation may take nowhere, and that the only bottom line would be that I would be squandering my precious time. >And were those Jha's exact last words? if > so, how was it recorded? It is plausible that Jha, not being just an ordinary convict, was closely watched, and his hangman/police officers talked about his last moments with their families friends too. My source for his last speech as written here is aforementioned Aajako Nepal , page 474. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 20-Jan-04 08:31 PM
Sparshaji: The point is you are not ready to condemn Gyanendra yet. If I say after the fall of monarchy, Biswo Nath Upadhyay will be a president, and will do a better job, will you believe it? Probably No. If I say Purna Bahadur Basnet, a widely revered headmaster of my highschool in Tandi who was almost killed by security forces for being a Maoist though he was a NC supporter, will do a better job, will you believe it? Probably No. Why? Because as long as we harbor an inertia to preserve an evil at any cost, we are going to be static against all changes. If you are ready to believe that Maharaja Gyanendra is the best solution for now, despite the mess of the nation, huge increase in palace budget and import of luxury cars/sarees, then it is hard to convince you for anything. If you are ready to believe that King Gyanendra, who has given a meager 1 million Rupees to the family of dead but brave soldiers/police who died fighting against the brutal Maoists,[compare that to recent acquisition of cars, last year's acquisition of 87 millions worth cars, queen's saree shopping spree in HKG worth more than millions as reported in Kantipur last year], who has NEVER attended any funeral of any slain soldier,is going to lead us to the victory against the indigenous guerrilla force, then how can I pursuade you to believe otherwise? It all percolates down to become a pure theoretical question then: whether you believe in monarchy despite its excesses or whether you believe in democracy despite its weaknesses? Friends we are, always,yet let's recognize this: you seem to believe in the first, and I in the second. That's where our thoughts separate. For our thoughts to converge, only ground realities in Nepal need to be changed drastically, I guess. |
| qallu | Posted
on 20-Jan-04 09:07 PM
Biswo: Feckless and indecent?! :) Now talk about suggestive words! I love it that you choose with such ease to dismiss people saying things like ""See it is a problem with you. When you are angry, you fail to see rationale behind the logic. You throw in suggestive words." Just like you feel you "know" what the problem is with me, I have to say I also "know" something about you... which is your intolerance to being questioned and your absolute humorlessness! Yet, I "squander MY precious time" responding to your thread even though I know this about you!! :) I find your postings interesting and intelligent though a bit blind sighted by your ideology. "You are unknown, unanimous and I am fully known here." I think in this case you are right; however, the advantage is yours and not mine! For one, just because I don't use my own name I am easily dismissable by the "responsible" known quantities. The fundamental issue is that this is a public forum you are free to express your opinions as you see fit and I am within my rights to respond to them as I see fit. When someone says clearly that they are "ADVOCATING" for a particular political position, it is NOT unreasonable to ask for facts. Questioning and asking fellow posters to do due diligence is not the same as talking about whores (and who is Saubhagya and what is this about Mangolia?). You do me and yourself an injustice in lumping the two together! Sparsha, very nicely put. |
| mirador | Posted
on 20-Jan-04 10:18 PM
< ...that is simply ridiculous. Are you saying that the students should apply same standards judgements for the actions of the palace and the Maoists? Think of this, the fact that your house gets burgled every other day by a gang of rabid looters with semi-automatics, DOES NOT mean that you should not protest to the police and start the fighting the looters yurself because the police was put there to protect our interests. Ditto with the king. In fact, the king should face MORE protest for the presence of Maobadis because as the head of state (which position he effectively took after APPOINTING the government) he is RESPONSIBLE for the our security. Either he has to do that or he should hand over the authority as any descent person in power would. And he is willing to do neither. Ergo, the protests. |
| rat-a-tat | Posted
on 21-Jan-04 09:30 AM
i heard the man who was shot while he was attempting to garland the king mahendra statue during the 1990 andolan rally was shot right in the head. my friends with strong links in the army used to talk about the incident and the armyman who shot the protestor with a sniper rifle. the armyman they identified was sadip shah, who is now holding one of the few top general posts in the army. i think he's now a lt. general and is somehow related to the queen. then, he was one of the senior army officers in charge of security at the royal palace. however, my friends used to also say he is a very capable army man who became a general at the youngest age ever in the history of royal nepal army. i think he's an expert on explosives or sth. was said to party wildly till late night when he was general at bhairab gand but then woke at 4 in the morning and used to jog alone in the field which forced other officers also to join him. |
| Nepe | Posted
on 21-Jan-04 10:22 AM
Biswo wrote: I think I read about the man who stoned the Mahendra statue somewhere long ago. May be in Himal or Nepal or something like that. He definitely shouldn't be in oblivion. Bimarsha weekly had published the picture (Our HahooGuru had posted that picture in Sajha. Must be somewhere in the archive). I think Khagendra Sangraula had written a piece somewhere criticising the tasteless words Bimarsha had put on the caption. "...Ugra vidyardhi....Pachi oo mariyo.." Or something like that. By the way, KS has a interesting piece in Kantipur Daily where he reminds 'Masina Thapa Kamal' about the same historical day. I remember organizing one Shraddanjali sabha in Banepa to pay a tribute to a student from Dapcha, Kavre who became martyr on the same julus of Chait 24. But I do not recall if he was identified as the same boy. I was in the executive committee of Kavreli Samparka Samaj who was the organizer of the function. I also remember I had met Lilamani Pokharel (one of my political mentors when I worked in Akhil) at the same function for the first time after I left Akhil and Party politics about half a decade earlier. His fiery speech used to mesmerize me. But at that function, I was already too old to be mesmerized by rhetoric of a communist leader. Sparsha wrote: So far I have not heard nor read anthing substantial on how does Nepal benefit after monarchy. Ok, monarchy is bad but what is to follow monarchy? Tell me about the replacement alternative. Sparsha ji, As a self-declared republican writing epic after epic on republicanism bearing all kinds of discouragement here in Sajha, you have no idea how painful it was to read your words. I do not know if it would have been 'substantial' enough to you, however, I thought you have read my infamous epic 'Why Republicanism'. Have you ? |
| Biswo | Posted
on 21-Jan-04 01:05 PM
Qallu: Thanks for some of the flattering adjectives(enlightening, intelligent, interesting..) regarding my postings. I definitely hope you will read my other postings in the future too, and make some 'enlightening' comments.If you have been in sajha since long, you should know that once upon a time, I was also a supporter of constitutional monarchy. I have always tried NOT to tinge the facts with my ideology. Tried to be fair for both sides. But as you can easily notice, being fair means , always, I should be critical of monarchy, since it is a worthless system, that has given nothing to Nepali people. It is just a burden. Any scholar can prove that. Our mistake immediately after 2046 was not to go vehemently against the rulers of Panchayat. We didn't have South Africa style Truth Commission, no Rwanda style commission, what we had was Spainish style HushHush. Just like Franco and his associates were let free despite killing hundreds of thousands of people, we let the Panche and Shah rulers go free without accounting for their deeds. It was a huge mistake. And the people are paying for it. Eventually, the king will also pay for it, I am sure. Killings/oppressions should always be accounted for after any revolution. Ratatat: Thanks for that new info. So, the sniper hit at the head of a man because he was stoning a statue. A statue is so important than a man? Whoever this sniper is, he is absolutely a criminal. He could have shot at the leg. The man was no threat to any army, police jawan at the time. It is so sickening to hear the works his majesty's people have done. Shah dynasty is like every other corrupt dynasty: despite its claim of working according to the wishes of people, it works according to its own wish. It has subjugated the people and blackmailed the whole country into submitting to its wish.The day it doesn't have army with it, it won't be there to rule us. Nepe: Yes, I know about "Pachhi Oo Maariyo". Sick caption, in deed. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 21-Jan-04 07:26 PM
BISWOJI: “The point is you are not ready to condemn Gyanendra yet. If I say after the fall of monarchy, Biswo Nath Upadhyay will be a president, and will do a better job, will you believe it? Probably No. If I say Purna Bahadur Basnet, a widely revered headmaster of my highschool in Tandi who was almost killed by security forces for being a Maoist though he was a NC supporter, will do a better job, will you believe it? Probably No. “ Biswoji, whether I am ready yet to condemn Gyanendra should not be classified as a mandatory base for the acceptance of alternative(s). And just why would you think that I am not ready to condemn Gyanendra? You mentioned above that me not being ready to condemn King G is the *point*. What that point might be and in what reference or context, I wonder. Really. I have noted that you have also provided *why* materials and I will address your *why* section in a few moments but for now let me express my bewilderment on the series of imaginary assumptions you made in responding me. You say “If I say after the fall of monarchy, Biswo Nath Upadhyay will be a president, and will do a better job, will you believe it? Probably No. “ And just why not? What made you think this way? Now, I don’t think you mean to indicate that just because I am not ready to condemn Gyanendra (your words, remember?-not mine), I am not ready to praise anyone. Do you? Why would I believe that Biswo nath upadhyaya would be the president and do better job? I don’t know what esactly happened to sri purna bahadur basnet but I condemn security forces if they acted irresponsibly with sri basnet. But my question would still be the same…why would I believe that sri basnet would be the president and will do better for the nation? Tell me why I should believe in what you are saying? Just because you are saying so? Biswoji, Here is how you imagine my position and defend your logic: ”Because as long as we harbor an inertia to preserve an evil at any cost, we are going to be static against all changes.” You may be right Biswoji on the concept of inertia. But why are you dragging me to this “inertia to preserve an *evil* at any cost” concept? I don’t want to preserve an evil at any cost? Why would you think I would be interested in that kind of activity? “If you are ready to believe that Maharaja Gyanendra is the best solution for now, despite the mess of the nation, huge increase in palace budget and import of luxury cars/sarees, then it is hard to convince you for anything. “ I have not said that King G is the best solution for the nation. In fact, I have said that the king should be ashamed of his act of buying luxury cars on state’s money, if that’s true. I deplore all activities of the King and of other so called leaders who exploit already stressed economy and, badly wounded public dreams for their personal glory. ”If you are ready to believe that King Gyanendra, who has given a meager 1 million Rupees to the family of dead but brave soldiers/police who died fighting against the brutal Maoists,[compare that to recent acquisition of cars, last year's acquisition of 87 millions worth cars, queen's saree shopping spree in HKG worth more than millions as reported in Kantipur last year], who has NEVER attended any funeral of any slain soldier,is going to lead us to the victory against the indigenous guerrilla force, then how can I pursuade you to believe otherwise? “ It seems to me that you are trying to take the cover of wrong argument to justify your bias. I already stated that I don’t appreciate (in fact, I deplore) the king spending state’s money for his luxury. I don’t appreciate him not attending slain solders last rites, and I have not claimed that he will lead us to the victory against maobadis. Where did you find this kind of information on me? ”It all percolates down to become a pure theoretical question then: whether you believe in monarchy despite its excesses or whether you believe in democracy despite its weaknesses? “ Even though I see no reason why should I be defending my belief but what I would like to say that is of course, I believe in democracy but the definition of my democracy may not mirror yours. Now, does that make me a staunch supporter of Gyanendra? ”Friends we are, always,yet let's recognize this: you seem to believe in the first, and I in the second. That's where our thoughts separate. For our thoughts to converge, only ground realities in Nepal need to be changed drastically, I guess.” The above paragraph shows how badly you have failed in your assumptions. Even before letting me defend myself, you accused me of being a believer of “bad monarchy”. My priority is not monarchy, Biswo ji. What I am concerned is about the weakness in political leadership in all quarters. Politics does not solve all the problems we have. We are poor and trying to survive. Don’t preach us on democracy. Give us food and shelter first then we will discuss who should stay in narayanhiti, the king or the president. This is what I think. Bring on, discuss, and implement the plans that would encourage economy to grow. What difference does it make to the majority of poverty-stricken population whether the king stays or the president in the Narayanhiti, when there is no support to secure their survival? Turmoil and chaos will continue to sweep our ghar aagan unless we focus on socio-economic growth before chanting political slogans. You are entitled to you opinions, Biswoji, and I respect that. But please don’t assume whatever you feel like about me and expect me to defend that. I won’t be able to do so. Differences aside, I enjoy reading your posts. Hope to read more from you. Mirador: ”...that is simply ridiculous. Are you saying that the students should apply same standards judgements for the actions of the palace and the Maoists? “ Sorry, I did not write what I wrote to please you. Should I have? I wrote what I felt. If it is ridiculous to you, so be it. And to answer you yes, the damn students, who are acting as nothing but pawns to the damn napumsak nautanki leaders, should apply the same standards for actions of the palace and Maoists if they care about the democracy they chant to restore. ”Think of this, the fact that your house gets burgled every other day by a gang of rabid looters with semi-automatics, DOES NOT mean that you should not protest to the police and start the fighting the looters yurself because the police was put there to protect our interests. “ Now, before I respond to your comment tell me who is who here. I am a bit confused. What is your logic behind students not protesting against Maoists? ”Ditto with the king. In fact, the king should face MORE protest for the presence of Maobadis because as the head of state (which position he effectively took after APPOINTING the government) he is RESPONSIBLE for the our security. “ Really? I thought Maoists were around even before gyanendra became the king. “Either he has to do that or he should hand over the authority as any descent person in power would. And he is willing to do neither. Ergo, the protests.” Here I partially agree with you. The king has no business in running the government. But we are letting him do that. For instance, don’t you think election could be an attractive option to end this stalemate? Some may argue “maobadis won’t let the election happen”. So? Blame the king again? Come to the parliament and if we want we can say goodbye and handover the pink-sheet to the king and his bhajan-mandali from there. What/who is stopping us (us includes maobadis too)? Frankly, whether the king or president , in my opinion, we need the US style government not this parliamentary British system. Nepeji, I thought if you believe in something and store that belief deep down the heart, all the attacks on such belief serve as the agents of reinforcement. It is the challenge that makes the establishment active and causes it (the establishment) either to strengthen or crumble. Please direct me to that thread on“'Why Republicanism'” or send me an email. Let me read thoroughly and respond. Ke farak parchha? Jeet usko hunchha ki hunna- afulai harnu aakhir kehi chhaina bhane? |
| nepali13 | Posted
on 21-Jan-04 07:29 PM
It is a very interesting topic, and there are many thoughtful postings. First of all let me thank to Biswo for being informative and providing fact of our very rocky politically confrontational history. How nice it is to learn that so many brave young people have sacrificed their precious life for freedom and democracy. We should salute the courage and foresight, vision of our martyrs. About the incident which took place in Janakpur and which was followed by many others in the history, the Nepalese people have not accepted king Mahendara unconstitutional military take over. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I don’t think there is any political party which carries the 100% philosophy that we believe, but we need to pick the closest one that is similar to our belief. I do not know my posting would be relevant or not under this topic, but I would like to drop my thoughts. In my opinion, Mahendra has started very cruel and dirty politics in Nepal (modern political history). In order to fulfill his own ambition and due to his personality clash with B P Koirala, he has implanted a never ending feud and distrust between the political parties and the monarch in Nepal. If Mahendra would have let the democracy process take its course, things would currently be very different at this time. How stupid it is to judge a year and one half old government which was formed after such a long political and social turmoil? And dismiss it, accusing the government for not fulfilling its commitment within this time frame? What was he expecting from the B P Koirala government in that short time of period? And who would believe in his logics that putting in jail all of those educated and pro democratic people would help to reform the society and economy of the country? We are paying the price of misjudgment of Mahendra and his followers. Every country in the past has gone through its hardest time in the beginning of the process of democracy. How long it took U.S., Britain and Japan and so on to come to this point and exercise the real meaning of democracy? Finally Indians are getting better after 50 years of democracy. Unfortunately, after a year and half, Mahendra has killed the process of democracy which never got chance to grow up and his worthless son Gyanendra is following, the same footsteps. I would like to ask this question to Sajha reader, how much time will it take for us to realize that we are going through the same process (Democracy) and that end up at the point where we started? We as a country may never get to the next phase or level because the course (Democracy) might be killed before it may ever gets chance to go through another cycle. Mahendra has given an idea to his followers that they can take over the power making fool of Nepalese on name of nationality. We shouldn’t forget that this is the family that left the country and exiled itself in India to save its life. And now they are portraying an image of national unity? What a joke!!!! Now we should focus on the current country situation. I agree that we need national concession and common goals in order to resolve the present burning national crisis. It is a question of life or death not only for the people of Nepal but also the existence of our country herself. Even though I abhor the king actions, I believe at this time that all different powers need to sit together and find common ground. It’s not possible to settle all differences, but we need collectively bargain to resolve the Maoist problem. And I would also like to mention here that the political parties have disappointed us badly. And I don’t know which words they will use to seek forgiveness form the Nepalese people. Gyanendra wouldn’t have dared to take over if leaders hadn’t failed miserably to lead the country. Due to failures of the political parties and their BEBKUF leaders, we are at a standstill. |
| Nepe | Posted
on 21-Jan-04 08:37 PM
Sparsha ji, The piece 'Why Republicanism in Nepal ?' is in the column section now. - http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/column.cfm?extraid=622 It is a very long article. I am afraid you might get bored. |
| Bhunte | Posted
on 22-Jan-04 12:30 AM
the case for republicanism may be like "hindna najanikana dagurna khojne". how can one understand republicanism without understanding democracy in the first place? what are the convincing arguments for republicanism? are nepali people ready to swallow republic pill? why republicanism is better than democracy? |
| Biswo | Posted
on 22-Jan-04 11:57 AM
>"hindna najanikana dagurna khojne". how can > one understand republicanism without > understanding democracy in the first place? Frankly, Bhunteji, this comment is not funny. What do you think Nepali janata? Jangali, uncivilized or what? Why do you think they can't use democracy while the rest of the world can? Pls give me necessary and sufficient conditions for people to consume democracy and live under a republic? Why could Greek live under democracy thousands years ago and why not we now? This attitude, does it come with the implicit hint that only some of us are capable of understanding and exercizing our democratic right while other are not ? Isn't it the same Panchayati reason given around 2046? Sparshaji: You want me to bet for future and that's where you and I have divergent views. Let's face it: future is probabilistic and I can't give you a deterministic solution. I can't tell you Biswo Nath Upadhyay will be the president in future with certainty. But there is probability. Under the king, that probability is zero. So, under the republic democracy, there is equal likelihood that any person will be a president. However, the likelihood of a myopic megalomaniac being president is lower in practice, because people are clearly smart enough not to choose them. I believe in letting Nepali people exercise their freedom,and I believe that they can decide what is the best for themselves. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 07-May-04 12:27 AM
"On the road, a man, his name would later be known as Jogi Shah, stretched his hands and beckoned to the king that he wanted to petition the king about something" Interestingly, I yesterday read about Jogi Shah in Kantipur daily.There was this interview with four old men who had gone to the street to protest. The man who was a part of this narration is still alive! He is seventy now. He says he spent about 14 years in jail. I didn't know about his whereabouts until I read the Kantipur. It is wonderful to read in Kantipur about those people who have fought for democracy since 2007 saal. Later in the life, it seems , most of these 'fighters'have figured out one thing: that there is only one culprit, there is only one bacteria, which is eating away our nation's energy, squandering our resources and leading us astray,and you have to deal it with somewhat decisiveness, and if you don't deal with it, it will haunt you as long as you are alive. |