| Username |
Post |
| Prem Charo |
Posted
on 11-Feb-04 08:45 AM
God , help Nepal !!
Maoist terror, currupt leaders, non patriotic parties and leaders, poor and uneduceted janta, student strike, teacher 's strike and so on _ _ _ _ after all
who is going to take care of Nepal ????
Deshvakta charo : Prem Charo
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 11-Feb-04 09:47 AM
May be you just read the news or what?
--
Corrupt leaders.
Unpatriotic parties.
Hmmm.
As for unpatriotic parties, I don't know how you are trying to explain the patriotism. May I know which party you are referring to, and why you think the party is unpatriotic. I am not sure if you are talking about Shiva Sena Nepal:-)
Let's get some facts straight here. If you are buying the accusaation that Gyanendra hurled to political parties, then you are in the trap. Shah kings have used this charge of corruption historically. The first such serious charge, if I may remind you, was against the son of Prithvi Narayan Shah. His name was Bahadur Shah. He was a regent of king Rana Bahadur Shah. When Rana Bahadur Shah considered him nuisance to his free reign, he charged Bahadur Shah of being corrupt, he said Bahadur Shah emptied the national coffer[in fact, the coffer was emptied because of war with India and Tibet] and threw him into the jail. The second such serious charge was against BP Koirala, when Koirala was leading a popular government. BP was not even allowed to run even two years. The king paid patrakars like Ramesh Nath Pande to write how Nepal was unstable, while he paid likes of Yogi Narahari Nath to make Nepal unstable.
Given the fate of both Bahadur Shah, and BP Koirala, I think Sher Bahadur was lucky. He wasn't killed or thrown to jail.
I don't think the parties are clean. But when you go on to say corrupt leaders[while omitting corrupt king and his son], then I must alert you not to fall in these traps. If kings had ability and desire to make Nepal clean, Rana Bahadur Shah would have made it long ago.What were they doing for two hundred years?
--
As for patriotism, Sugauli Sandhi was signed at the moment when Nepal was waging war in five fronts. It had won at four fronts, but lost at one. According to Madan Puraskar laureate Badri Narayan Shrestha, Nepal agreed to sign Sugauli Sandhi, not because we were really losing, or we had any risk of losing sovereignty, but because the treaty had a clause that guaranteed a handsome amount of money to Nepal's king and prime minister.[Shrestha told that to this writer in his lecture at Houston.]
--
So, Premcharo, Let's analyze things properly. I don't believe in protests that disrupt classes of ordinary students. I don't believe in murders. But I don't think the solution lies in status quo, or power to king. Unofficial estimates say that king had taken more money from national coffer in the last two years than the Maoists had robbed cumulatively from the banks. The king accused that there were 12 governments in 12 years. Well, even under the Panchayat, not a single PM served for 5 years, not even 4 years. Under Gyanendra, 2 governments in two years. How is this ratio better?
According to an article in Nepal Vision by Dr Ram Sharan Mahat, in the last two years, only 15 kilometers of roads were built at the cost of about 2 billion Rs. I think that was corruption.
I always believe that our future lies in the hands of new generation. I believe that new generation will put our generation to shame for they are the one who are brimming with talent, intelligence, and they have ability to pull through. We can afford to be hopeful. Let democracy take roots in Nepal. Let king and his pawns take their lies with them, and run away from country, so that Nepal can get rid of age-old system of tyranny and feudalism. Let's have faith on veracity and let's have faith on our people.Let's not consume the lies churned out by king and his henchmen, and let's not wonder our country doesn't have future.Let's be optimist.
Amen.
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| nsshrestha |
Posted
on 11-Feb-04 10:03 AM
Good One.
Bishwo has the best guleli for every charo around. :)
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| Prem Charo |
Posted
on 11-Feb-04 10:23 AM
Bis
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| Prem Charo |
Posted
on 11-Feb-04 11:07 AM
Biswo,
Why are you after only king ? Don't you think all parties including King are responsible for this situation of Nepal?? I thought you would give good reason than this and not being biased. If you think any party leader who is not currupted let me know.
Biswo, Let's analyse this way, Under the Constitution of the Kingdom, the Nepali Congress leader is free to have his say on and about whatever he feels or thinks about men and affairs. However, this Koirala dynast would have done well if he gives some serious moments to ponder over his own unenviable track- record, both as a Prime Minister and the foremost leader of the country's cardinal political party. As the Prime Minister, it is known to all, he had failed to deliver on his Party's various pledges made to the people. It was, again, he who had caused the Nepali Congress and, probably, the parliamentary system itself, to be viewed with doubt and skepticisms as regards its viability for this country because of certain of his own nationally pernicious acts like signing the Tanakpur Barrage Treaty with New Delhi during his term as a highly unpopular Prime Minister. In between his first term as the head of the country's highest executive body and till he expelled his Party Prime Minister Sher Bahadur Deuba from the Party, Girija Prasad Koirala had done nothing that would have made the Nepali Congress feel a sense of pride for itself . Had he not taken a basically motivated disciplinary action of the above description against Deuba on a flimsy pretext, the country would not have to undergo all the sorry impasse it has been going through as of today. In the light of this fact, this man is to blame for all the sorry things that are going on in the country's political life in the incipient present.
Similarly, some prominent figures in the Nepal Communist Party-United Marxist and Leninist such as Madhav Kumar Nepal, Khadga Prasad Oli, Jhala Nath Khanal etc. are also to be held accountable for emasculating the parliamentary system by one way or the other. There are quite a number of sins of commission and omission which lay at the doors of these half-baked so-called communist leaders. For Instance, the signing away of the Indo- Nepal Mahakali River Development Treaty is virtually their betrayal of this nation. Besides this, they have also reneged on their dishonestly professed ideology of Marxism and Leninism by the way they lived their lives of fabulous luxury which their "gurus" Marx and Lenin could never have approved of .
Contd..
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| Prem Charo |
Posted
on 11-Feb-04 11:10 AM
However, this is not to say that these two parties alone are to blame for whatever has been happening in this country since King Gyanedra dismissed the unsuspecting Deuba from his prime ministerial post and, subsequently, appointed a cabinet of 22 unsullied faces having no political images of their own, whatsoever. If the other activists of these two cardinal political parties want to restore and revive democracy with all its vestiges retained intact, they should first revolt against the incompetent, self-seeking, corrupt and unpatriotic people from within the ranks of their parties. In other words, the Nepali Congress and the Nepali Communist Party- United Marxist and Leninist have the imperative need to carry out drastic and thorough purges in their respective party leadership. For with men like Girija Prasad Koirala and again, with Madhav Kumar Nepal or Khadga Prasad Oli in their organizational hierarchy, these paramount parties cannot command the trust and respect of the people, to say the least.
Hope you got my point.
Deshvakta charo
Prem Charo
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 11-Feb-04 11:40 AM
Premcharo:
I understand your point. I agree with you when you say the political leadership had not been successful. But remember that your original posting had nothing against the king. You only accused leaders and political parties. It was what prompted me to reply to your thread.
There are some corrections I would like to make regarding your reply.
--
The disciplinary action against Deuba, which was taken apparently after his decision to reimpose emergency, was wrong, as PM should be the most powerful person in the party. However, since I am not a congressi, and I don't care what they do inside their party. What I cared was the parliament. That was not dissolved by Girija. Now Girija may have thousands foibles, he is still the only person who have stood tall and firm against the royals for the rights of Nepali people than any other leaders alive.
Another thing is , why are you upset that UML is not genuinely communist? Do you want them to be another Maoists? or Bolsheviks? I am more than happy to see them not being 'genuine' communist. I don't give a damn what they tell to their cadres, but my biggest nightmare is UML really run by some zealous cadre who would want another revolution in Nepal.I am not a UML supporter, so I don't care what they do with their fossilized idea. I think UML has some problem, but UML cadres working in villages, including my former municipality chief, are fine.
Third thing I disagree with you is when you said king appointed '22 unsullied' persons? Oh, since when Lokendra Bahadur Chanda, whose son is responsible for 8 crore ghotala , of a loan from a national bank is 'unsullied'? How about those dollar kanda, galaicha kanda etc? Is Badri Mandal unsullied? If Kamal Chaulagain, Kuber Sharma, Devi Ojha were unsullied, why their parent party couldn't be?
Finally, when Rishi Drona took his students to test their marksmanship skill, he wanted them to shoot at the pupil of a bird hanging from the tree and he asked his pupils what they were seeing. This is a story from Mahabharata. A very famous one. Some said they were seeing everything, tree, bird, sky,.., some said they were seeing bird, and tree, some said they were seeing bird. They all failed. Arjun, the best one, said all he was seeing was the eye of the bird. Only the eye. He succeeded. So, Premcharo, the lesson is we need to look at the major reason why we are in this mess. That is king and his sacrosanct position. Yes, when we see we can see all sorts of things, the parties, the maoists, the students, the teachers, the strikes, the helmet rule, etc. etc., but when we zero in on the problem, the only problem we could see at first is the only unchecked authority in the nation: the king. From that, we can talk about solution:-)
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| jaya_nepal |
Posted
on 11-Feb-04 01:26 PM
Hey Biswo and Prem Charo.
This thread was comin up pretty interesting - so thought of adding my views and few doubts.
As you say Biswo, that King is the center of all problems that the country is facing. May be I am wrong but what could be done if Deuba govt was not sacked. What would you do, imagining yourself in the position of King of Nepal or any authoritarian person of Nepal.
Blaming anyone is not the right time as of now. Whatever happened, its all done. We just need to solve the issue. Well, if King and his chamchas are exiled how can you assume that Nepal would develop. And talking about the young generation - well our young generation are busy protesting on streets and are affiliated to the political parties. They have the same view what the leaders have.
So, who do you think wold resolve the issue. I dont say its only the King - but just wondering who do you think..??
jaya_nepal
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 11-Feb-04 08:39 PM
>May be I am wrong but what could be
>done if Deuba govt was not sacked.
First of all, why was it necessary for Deuba to be sacked? I don't see any reason for KING to sack DEUBA.
>What would you do, imagining yourself
>in the position of King of Nepal or any
>authoritarian person of Nepal.
Now, I understand there was this tough situation in Ashoj. If I were the king, I would have made things as transparent as Birendra used to do most of the times. I would have PUBLICLY asked supreme court judges for advice, which by the way was a precedence set by the former king, and would have acted upon that.
The reason why Birendra was popular was because people felt that he was honest, he was not cooking up things in his mind to weaken democracy, and he was not doing things to put his man as PM.Now what Gyanendra does is all in secrecy. We don't know why he did things that he did.
>Blaming anyone is not the right time as
>of now. Whatever happened, its all done.
No.
We need to hold people accountable for their crime.
Nepalese newspapers often, when berating our political leadership, say that 'these leaders haven't even apologized for the corruption'. But are you ready to forgive them if they apologize? I am not. If I become prime minister [or president] tomorrow, I will surely continue to hunt down the likes of Govinda Joshi, Rabindra Sharma, Vijay Gacchadar , and surely Gyanendra etc.Why should I forgive these (likely) criminals?
We did the same mistake after Panchayat. We should have sent these Marichman, Surya Bahadur etc to the Central Jail for what they did. We should have arrested those police officers who shot people at chest and head,and those who beat people indescriminately.
Today, again, we need to tell people, from police jawan, army recruit to their generals that whoever shoots at innocent people, they will be persecuted. They can't avoid persecution tomorrow by saying it was 'command' from seniors. The message to these people should be loud and clear: that you serve the law, you don't serve any officer, and once you commit mistake, you are going to be noticed.
>Well, if King and his chamchas are exiled how
>can you assume that Nepal would develop.
Politics is not composed of deterministic states. We don't know what will happen if the king decamps tomorrow. But that is not the excuse for keeping king. We didn't know what exactly would have happened after removing Talibans, Saddam, yet no one mourns their departure. Bad things have to go, so that good things can take root there.
But if we continue to follow the path of democracy, even the constitution of 2047 sans king, we should be fine. I am always for that.
>And talking about the young generation -
>well our young generation are busy protesting
>on streets and are affiliated to the political
>parties. They have the same view what
>the leaders have.
They have grievances. They are protesting. I don't support the protests when such protests affect classes, but I know the protests are happening mostly as a form of catharsis, because there are no other way to do that.
By younger generation, I am also talking about those young Nepali living abroad. A lot of people I know abroad want to go back and serve their local community. Listen, if there is a system where I can be the leader of my people in Chitwan without having to serve king or any political leader first, I will be very happy to go to Chitwan and woo my people and try to be their leader. As long as I know, filling in government position by the summary of popular opinion as adjudged by universal suffrage is the best way to judge how democratic we are.
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| kalekrishna |
Posted
on 11-Feb-04 09:50 PM
The king paid patrakars like Ramesh Nath Pande to write how Nepal was unstable, while he paid likes of Yogi Narahari Nath to make Nepal unstable.
Bisow, you are slinging mud to nationalistic figures like of Yogi Narhari Nath. Let not our dislike for someone pull others who have selflessly contribuited for nations cause. Is Sati's curse so strong that we even in this new millenium have to be bound by it to knowingly unknowingly speak bad about those who dedicated their life for nations cause.
KK
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 12-Feb-04 11:11 AM
Kalekrishna:
When Yogi died, I was the first one to praise Yogi in sajha for what he did in terms of illuminating us of our history. He was a great man for scholars of history.
But sadly, what I wrote above is true. He was also fiercely anti-BP, and had participated in staged-anti-multiparty rebels. Everyone knows this. I don't have to accuse anyone. Yogi was nationalist, went to jail later in Birendra's era, we all know this. This doesn't mean he didn't do anything bad during Mahendra time. Let's deal with facts.
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| sushil59 |
Posted
on 12-Feb-04 12:14 PM
I am totally agree with Biswo. we should be focused on main point. There are lot of things to take care after we take care of First thing. I think Monarchy is main problem in Nepal and i also do believe that as long as there is monarchy, there is corruption, chamchagiri, religious and caste propaganda and so many other things so we should get rid of monarchy in Nepal. I don't blame on Political leaders for not punishing those panchayat era culprit because Monarchy was directly or indirectly involved in all of those bad things that happened before 2046 and democracy of 2046 was just compromised democracy between those two force( democratic and King) so we need real democracy which could happen only without Monarchy in Nepal
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| porcelina |
Posted
on 12-Feb-04 12:50 PM
hey and dont forget to blame the bahuns!!!
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| yOuNgBlOoDz |
Posted
on 12-Feb-04 02:04 PM
lol procelina haaha
yb
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| nsshrestha |
Posted
on 12-Feb-04 03:02 PM
Bishwo,
What was the rationale behind his immense love for Mahendra? Was it solely driven by his hate for BP? If it was religious, he was from the nath sect, the wilder side of saivism, and the kings are so called Vishnus. If it was socio-political then he had a fairly good idea of historical progression of socierty. Or it was purely the Gorkhe connection?
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 12-Feb-04 03:33 PM
I don't know. Yogi's mind was so impermeable.
Just like Shockley. He was hardworking. Great in one of his chosen fields.But had his own weird idea about how the nation should function, and he was mostly wrong on that. But what he did as a seeker of knowledge was wonderful.It is upto us to decide how we would like to remember him.
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| KaleKrishna |
Posted
on 12-Feb-04 09:54 PM
Whatever, might have been the outcome of Yogi's action, they must have come out with selfless motive. His patritiosism was beyond all those politics and nation was first and foremost to him, then came the populace. As per Yogi's liking for Mahendra-a patriotic mind will not fail to see the far sighted vision in Mahendra's action. It is different story that others were not patriotic enough to execute his vision. Now, someone may say-pavements to hell are also made of good intention, but as two sides of a coin, it was the one that turned up, we were made to face and accept.
KK
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