| Username |
Post |
| novice_guru |
Posted
on 20-Mar-04 01:11 PM
I have seen frequent Maoist bashings that are nothing but the product of ignorance. People who do not understand the politics on the ground come with such a simplistic explanation that the Maoists are evil and needs to be crushed but in reality the truth is totally different.
I understand that the Maoists have turned extremely violent in recent days but it is the state that perpetrated more atricities than the Maoists. It was their loot and rape campaign in 'Operation Romeo' and 'Operation KiloSherra2' that forced the young people of western Nepal to join the Maoists.
Further Maoists had once demanded 3 steps for the end of the crisis.
1.Round Table Conference
2.Interim Government
3.Constituent Assembly for making the constitution
This was a very reasonable demand. I do not understand why everyone is afraid of a constituent assembly. Constituent Assembly is infact long due. It was promised after the '2007 sal' but Tribhuvan cheated and the constituent assembly never materialized. Even after the 1990 People's Movement the Nepali Congress should have asked for consituent assembly but they were happy with a compromise. A Constituent Assembly is needed in Nepal and it will decide on a host of issue including the Monarchy.
Yes there were concerns about the role of the 'People's Liberation Army' in the constituent assembly. But the Maoists had provided a solution to that as well by offering to merge their army with the Royal Nepalese Army to make Nepalese Army. I think this is a wonderful idea as the army needs to be serve the country and not monarchy which is a mere(in fact controversial) institution.
Now when you bash the Maoists remember that the war is still going on not because the Maoists have been unreasonable but because the State has been unreasonable. They are always adamant and do not realize the gravity and legitimacy of the demands of the Maoists.
And who can forget the 40 point demand of the Maoists before the war started. If we looked at the demands then all the demands are very reasonable and it was a grave mistake to ignore it.
And for the record I do not want a single party Maoist rule but just think that the Maoist's demands are very reasonable. I know the Maoists have been very violent but we have to realize there is a war going on and a war has very little if any rules. The state has also been committing horrendous activities. I think a strong leftist party in a multi party democracy is a good counter balance to the rightist element in society.
After so many people being killed it would be very sad if the demand for Constituent Assembly is not realized. Nepal needs it desperately. I do not understand why parties like Nepali Congress, UML and others do not support the demand for Constituent Assembly. It was a demand of the 2007 sal which was headed by Nepali Congress. Why do the parties need to protect the Monarchy?
Constituent Assembly is the only way out of this crisis. This is more true now as the present consitution is already derailed and there is no way that this constitution can be brought in track.
So responsible people of Sajha demand Constituent Assembly as a way out of this crisis in Nepal.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 20-Mar-04 02:16 PM
Hmm.
I support constituent assembly. But here is one historical perspective about supporting a group that has weapons and powers.
---
The Bolsheviks first cleansed Tsarists. Mensheviks, the Cadets aka the socialist democrats, silently stood by and witnessed approvingly the cleansing.
Then the Bolsheviks started their actions against the Cadets once the revolution was successful. The Trotskyites, apparently the reformers and moderates within the party, stood by.
Then jaggernaut of destruction needed some more heads. Then it turned towards the Trotskyites. The peasants, engineers and others watched the internal cleansing.
Then peasants who were in red army were then cleansed for crimes as small as hiring a helping hand. Engineers were killed for telling the truth about capacity of state factories. Apparently, those who hired 'people'were petty burgueoise. The other communists stood by.
But the hunger of Stalin wouldn't be satiated. The hunger of killing machine of the communist parties wouldn't be satiated. It was as if a lion was left to run berserk in the jungle: first it kills everything in the vicinity, then it starts to eat its own tail, then it keeps on eating until it eats its own head.Then Stalin turned against the communists: his own politbureau members, other potential adversaries. He cleansed people before he thought they would raise their voice. Other communist regimes copied. Death became a political policy. That's why communist regimes all over the world imploded from within. They were like soft sandhill, a gentle push from outside would crumble their whole structure.
The same thing happened in China: the armed communists were always in search of enemies. They are in constant hunt of enemies, because peacetime stings them big time. It is like Donald Rumsfeld/Cheney having cold war mentality all the time. They need enemy. They are compulsive in their quest. They think there are enemies out there and you have to find them. They think all you need is to search for this more carefully. When the communists in China couldn't find the real enemies, they turned to their own comrades. Those who just disagreed with them were now class enemies out to destroy the achievement of 'great proletarian revolution'. How would you tame people whose quest is blood when they are in power?
[Note: despite their flashing of Stalin and Mao's pics, I think Nepal's, esp nonMaoist, communist are not to be blamed for what happened in Russia and China. They didn't kill people there, a lot of them don't even know what happened there. ]
We will do a lot of justice to ourselves if we don't support the Maoists, and make sure that they disarm before they are invited to join the mainstream. I am surely for a movement to oust the king. I am a republican. But first of all, I don't want a republic that cuddles the killing machines: may it be of the (former)king's or may it be of the Maoists. We need to protect our people. Peace is the best thing a republic can give to people.
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| Kiddo |
Posted
on 20-Mar-04 02:35 PM
It doesn't take a complicated reasoning to understand a simple fact:" NO cause is worthy enough for the murders that Nepal is witnessing. Why are we killing innocent lives? Why the explosions and robbery? Just to achieve a political front court?
If you come and start giving 10 pages long explanation that is just a bull. U just can't justify this action.
WE DON'T FAWKING CARE WHO THE HELL GOVERNS NEPAL (COZ ALL OF THEM ARE FULL OF SHIIT) SO STOP DISRUPTING OUR LIVES!!!!
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| peda |
Posted
on 20-Mar-04 02:36 PM
Mr Novice-Guru, you sound like an avatar of BRB/Prachanda.
Most of us are mature to realise that the present situation is the result of craving for power of various leadres, Maoists included. I do not think your leaders care about the people at all. The history has shown us that they never cared about ordinary folks anywhere.
Our country was a fertile ground for your ambitions because of existing poverty and unemployment.
Not that the situation was good before, but you have made it worse now.Our country now is a lawless jungle.The rule of gun prevails.
You are projecting constiuent assembly as a magic cure for all our problems. Remember, a system is only as good as the people running it.
What we need now is a peaceful mass movement of people- like the one seen in Spain following that bomb blast.This will happen- but it is difficult to say when. All those gun trotters will be swept away- unless they want to be king or president of a 'masan' literally killing everybody. You would not have anybody to impose your rules on.
I might have disappointed you, but educated people have been your enemy most of the time. I note that you have converted most of the schools into barracks.
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| thaag |
Posted
on 20-Mar-04 04:41 PM
Novice_guru, when you are a follower power thirsty, blood thirsty lunatic Baburam, you tend to believe that ‘Operation Romeo’ and ‘Operation KiloSherra2’ forced people to become Maoshits. There is no doubt that party of chors (ie, Nepali congress, UML, Panche party) have destroyed peoples faith in democratic system and ‘Daaka’ party of Baburam wants to take control of the country.
We don’t need the system that gives lunatic Baburam, total control with guns. We are all aware that what maoshits are capable of doing it to their opposition. I am sure I don’t need to go to gruesome detail of extortion and genocide. Imagine they have the power and you voice anything against them you will get your head cut off like a ‘boka’ in Kali’s mandir, well you can not do that now when they are not in power, just dream about voicing your dissatisfaction If Maoshits come to the power.
We have very good democratic system in place, although it needs some modification that it won’t come to present situation. Democratic system is a messy system, it is not clean, but if implied properly, it is the best system for people. You don’t need too far to go to see benefits of democratic system, just look at India, the world’s largest democratic country.
If we can properly prosecute chors of chor parties, which we can do now, we have a system called democracy; we will be in a lot better situation. But if Daaka takes over and if you try to prosecute Daaka’s of Daka party, you will be Dead because Daaka will have gun and their lunatic leader will laugh at you and shoot you….Just like Stalin, and PolPot did……… Be aware if you want to follow Maoshits.
Unfortunately, almost all of Maoshit army’s are being forced to be a Maoshit against their will or by using propaganda which are fueled by chors sitting at power. If we only could have punished chors, we would not have seen these days of violence and destruction of public property.
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| novice_guru |
Posted
on 20-Mar-04 06:17 PM
The point I am trying to make is being misunderstood.
Firstly I am not a supporter of one party rule as the world has provided ample evidence that such a system fails. I do not want a communist dictatorship in Nepal. And I am not a follower of the Maoists.
I know that the Maoists have done a lot of wrong but we have to give credit to them for the legitimate issues that they have brought up. A class conflict was inevitable in Nepal given the big gap of the countryside and the capital.
Nepal will be the biggest loser if anyside wins this conflict.
If the Maoists win then they will bring Communist Dictatorship which will simply not work in today's world. We have also seen how they handle their political opponents so one party rule by the Maoists is a no no.
If the government crushes the rebels then for the political parties and the King it will be business as usual. There will not be any significant changes and thus the movement of the Maoists and all the life lost will be useless.
So the best thing for the country is a settlement. I do not want to see the conflict go either ways.
I accept that settlement is the best thing for the country but I do not want a compromise like 2007 sal and 1990 movement. Nepali people have been fooled for too long by politicians. The revolution should culminate in a constituent assembly election that will promulage a new constitution. The constituent assembly should kick out the king as I think we do not need a king that buys fancy cars from budget allocated to elections.
So I think the government should have accepted the
1.Round table Conference
2.Interim Government
3. Constituent Assembly
proposal. It was the issue of monarchy that was a hindrance to accepting this proposal. So monarchy is the real hindrance to a solution in Nepal.
A Multi-party republic democracy and a Constituent Assembly is what the country needs. A special Committee should also be formed, and all those in power after the 1990 movement should be investigated for corruption and power abuse.
That is my thought and well like all political thoughts is subject to debate.
However I would like to point out one attitude that a lot of Nepalis seem to have.
They think of politics in terms of black and white.
In other words
Maoists= Bad
Government= Good
This is a very faulty way to think as in politics thinks are not black and white. Nothing is absolute.
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| babaal |
Posted
on 20-Mar-04 07:21 PM
chopping human bodies brutally to fulfill demand = bad
having the balls to hold discussions and present solid arguments for their demands = good
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| lokman |
Posted
on 20-Mar-04 10:07 PM
GORU,
What are you? a maoist propaganda machine or something ?
I am a relatively new poster considering some folks who have been on here since day one, or so I hear, and it is already apparent to me that there is a permanently stationed maoist trumpeteer on here. He is either being paid by maoists or is a die hard maoist sympathiser.
Also, I have noticed that a lot of people currently living abroad seem to have a soft corner for maoists, for they are not directly affected by the terrorist activities of maoists. Maoists have made our life a living hell. They have wrecked havoc and unleased a wave of destruction throughout the country. You have to be here to know what I am talking about.
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| login |
Posted
on 21-Mar-04 03:11 PM
I totally agree with novice_guru and his thoughts are well conceived. In the past I have seen been brutal bashing against the Maoist and I can relate to what the people in this forum think. But we can't always look into the past and predict the future, can we? Stalin commited horrific actions to his own people and we all know that but how can we be so sure that the same is to follow? Like guru said earlier, we are in WAR and unfortunately casualties do happen but if we let the same monarchy and the same government rule the country, what will the outcome be? All the elites in this forum know the level of corruption in Nepal and it was getting worse for sure. So do we all still want the same system? That system did not work and it needs to be replaced! You are abroad-why> coz our country could not provide good education and opportunity? So who'z to blame?
Biswo said, "That's why communist regimes all over the world imploded from within." You sounded like the Bushy Administration who goes to war with Iraq, kill innocent in order to protect the Americans. C'mon it was just a THREAT and you can't go around killing someone because you think you might be attacked. He didn't give Iraq a chance and invaded Iraq just because it was a potential threat and most of the Americans seemed to agree with him. I like what you said and we all know that we want our peaceful Nepal back but I agree with Guru too. We need a Constituent Assembly and maybe give them a chance too. Or else the bloodshed will never end. I know you don't want Nepal to be dictated by the communists but Nepal had always been dictated in the name of democracy or whatever you might wanna call it. What is your solution to it? Kill all the Maoist? If we kill all the Maoist, then it will only be a few of us because most of the people out of the city are Maoists now. They will never disarm after all these years of fighting (are u kidding me). The government needs to negotiate and that's the only way out.
Lokman, I don't think Guru is a symphatiser or a supporter, he is just giving his honest opinion and we all should be open to it. Most of the people in Sajha are against the Maoist but remember, it was not their choice to kill people and get killed-they were forced to become one due to the negligient government. They've tried to settle down in a peaceful manner but it didn't work and the only other option was to revolt. Atleast they are fighting for their rights, what are we doing?
Anyways, Jai Nepal!
-LoGiN
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| kingkong |
Posted
on 21-Mar-04 04:52 PM
prachanda and baburam are gay
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| kingkong |
Posted
on 21-Mar-04 04:52 PM
they do it in caves
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| Ebaje |
Posted
on 21-Mar-04 05:22 PM
Gyane and Parase are GAY NO 1. They need to pack their bag and come visit me in San Francisco.
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| bardan |
Posted
on 21-Mar-04 05:35 PM
well if the maoists are raising legitimate issues as novice _guru is saying,then why cant they chose a legitimate way of doing it.why choose a path of killing and destruction???its simply because the majority of nepalese have tasted democracy and they will not accept a one party communist state which is what the maoist are after..........
i would like to remind novice guru,that the govt had offered to go in for a referendum on the issue of constitutnet assembly during the last round of negotiations,which the maoist rejected.
my point is simple,peaceful civil disobediance has brought about many changes in the world,look at indias struggle for freedom,look at the civil rights movement in the US.....many examples gallore.if there is traction for the message of the maoists out there,they would be in power by now,they havent achieved it with nearly a decade of armed struggle,and they are still far off....
the means do not justify the end.
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| sense |
Posted
on 22-Mar-04 11:17 AM
LOGIN hopefully u wont be a casuality ,to know about UNFORTUNATE CASAULITIES.
One thing should be clear there should not be a single innocent killed no matter how many culprits run away.
N about Maoshits ... they r gaining power becoz of monarchy's mishandeling in the situation ....but both dont realise that they r fighting on a boat with a hole in an ocean...nomatter who wins ,the boat is going to take them away in the depth from where they cant return...ya ofcourse only if they r dead.....so the only alternative for them is to stop the water entering from the hole....but fwk'n shits they r so engrossed in blood that they cant even see their own graves just onder them.
It may sound hypothetical but reality is just simple...STOP WITH THE WAR N LET PEOPLE (democracy) RULE.
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| dyamn |
Posted
on 22-Mar-04 12:20 PM
how is monarchy's mishandlin or order letting them be powerful? could you please help us understand that.
thanks
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