| Sajha.com Archives | |
| Username | Post |
| Nepe | Posted
on 30-Mar-04 09:38 AM
One of my recent ghazals is published in Nepal Weekly, albeit in a severely truncated form, so much so that even the matla which is like the head of a ghazal is beheaded :-( - http://www.kantipuronline.com/Nepal/sahitya.htm Here is the complete ghazal for paarakhi Sajha readers. (I have recited this ghazal when it was still incomplete to various audiences in DC. Some of my prominent audiences from Sajha were Mitra2, Puru ji and Prof. Shiva Gautam) 
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| Nepe | Posted
on 30-Mar-04 09:59 AM
Just the link - http://www.kantipuronline.com/Nepal/sahitya.htm |
| SITARA | Posted
on 30-Mar-04 10:01 AM
Nepe ji: Yet another beautiful gazal; rich, profound and evoking myriad emotions in the reader. Thank you for posting it here. |
| Poonte | Posted
on 30-Mar-04 10:34 AM
ma hatta patta gahiro sahitya bujhdina hai...kyarnu, syaano maanchhe ko khapparai syaano...tara yespali bhane yo ghazal le chwassai mutu ghonchyo, gaanthe! Bidhi ko bidambana jasto...wah wah wah, Nepe jyu!!!! Aadaab! |
| Biswo | Posted
on 30-Mar-04 05:21 PM
Nice one, Nepeji. Publishing in Nepal definitely gives some more exposure, especially to the local ghazalkaar, who will have much refined opinion about your ghazal than our sajhapuri readers. So a good step, and wish you goodluck. |
| noname | Posted
on 31-Mar-04 04:02 AM
Nepe, no need to say, a well-crafted piece of art. These lines are my fav.: Tyo kothama ki BUDDHA ki RAKCHYAS hunuparcha Jaha-bata shir jhukai euta Jallad niskyo **** Following Nepe's instruction, I tried to 'assemble' few words in a Ghazal form. Anta rakhum bhane kasaiko Najar naparla Bhanera YO GHAZAL ko 5-star HOTEL ko chheu-ma maile ghazal ko chiya-pasal ubhyaeko chhu... 
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| rauniyar | Posted
on 31-Mar-04 04:12 AM
Mama, nice piece of composition. I wonder what other skills you have besides being a brilliant scholar and a well-rounded gentleman. Tero number kai ho ? Bhanja lai fone garnu paryou kya!!!! Rajeev |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 31-Mar-04 07:31 AM
Nepe, Very good combination of 'Matla', 'Maqta', 'Beher' in your Ghazal, but I think you should work on 'Kaafiyaa' and 'Radif' that makes your Ghazal perfect. Keep up with your good work. |
| Nepe | Posted
on 31-Mar-04 10:35 AM
Sitara, Thank you for your encouraging words. Myriad emotions.. in fact, that's a characteristic of ghazal. Each sher in a ghazal is a single poem. That allows a ghazalkar to tell multiple stories in a single ghazal. *************** Poonte ji, Bidhi ko bidambana jasto... Although not necessarily Bidhi ko, my attempt was to talk about some ironies of our life and time. *************** Biswo ji, That was my lobh too. However, I felt a little bit violated by the truncation the editor made without much regard to ghazal's bidhi-bidhan. *************** Noname ji, Your earlier poem 'Sambhavana haru' was a ten star poetry. This one is good, but the earlier one was superb. Hellbound ji has pointed out some difficulty in my kaafiya, so I should not be giving you the same advice (although I am going to explain that shortly). However, I would urge you to have kaafiya (rhyme) in your ghazal. Without kaafiya, ghazal will taste like an otherwise delicious tarkaari without noon. Thank you for choosing that buddha/raaxes/jallad one as your favorite sher. That's my favorite too. That, to some extent, and the one about 'Ishwar' were the products of my conversation with Sajhaites right here, particularly with Gokul ji. The metaphor/simile of Vibhishan in your ghazal was good too. *************** Rajeev, Thank you. Although tero number ke ho did not go well with calling me Mama, I felt a warmth of intimacy in this tan-tan-ma-ma. How well it goes with Gulam Ali's ghazal Ranj ki jab guftagoo hone lagi/ aap se tum, tum se tu hone lagi that I just listened to yesterday after year's of longing to listen it again. It's very heavily laden with Urdu words, but listen to this - one of the most beautifully sang ghazal Title: Ranj ki jab - http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/l/02010L03 *************** Hellbound ji, It was a pleasure to have somebody comment on technical aspect too. Thank you. As you noted, I haven't violated the rules of 'Matla', 'Maqta' and 'Beher'. And if 'Niklyo' represents the 'radif', then I have not violated the rule of radif too. Now about kaafiya, yes I did used somewhat deceptive kaafiya. However, as far as I can see, I have not violated the rule of kaafiya too. Let me give my clarification. The kaafiya of this sher as defined by the one used in the Matla is --Ta/--ta/ (based on 'T' and 't' representing two different consonants). Therefore anything that ends in '---a' will be acceptable kaafiya for the following ashar. To illustrate: haata niklyo baaTa niklyo kaandha niklyo bariyaata niklyo baata niklyo agyaata niklyo jallaada niklyo bagdaada niklyo maujdaata niklyo aukaata niklyo anubaada niklyo One should notice that I have restricted the consonant of kaafiya to Ta-barga and ta-barga consonants. That was purely to give more degree of rhyming than the minimum required by the rule. That's all. Similarly, I have limited the sound preceding to the kaafiya sound to 'aa--'. Again, that was more than required and was intended to enhance the rhyming. So I plead no guilt, your honor ! |
| Nepe | Posted
on 31-Mar-04 10:37 AM
Sitara, Thank you for your encouraging words. Myriad emotions.. in fact, that's a characteristic of ghazal. Each sher in a ghazal is a single poem. That allows a ghazalkar to tell multiple stories in a single ghazal. *************** Poonte ji, Bidhi ko bidambana jasto... Although not necessarily Bidhi ko, my attempt was to talk about some ironies of our life and time. *************** Biswo ji, That was my lobh too. However, I felt a little bit violated by the truncation the editor made without much regard to ghazal's bidhi-bidhan. *************** Noname ji, Your earlier poem 'Sambhavana haru' was a ten star poetry. This one is good, but the earlier one was superb. Hellbound ji has pointed out some difficulty in my kaafiya, so I should not be giving you the same advice (although I am going to explain that shortly). However, I would urge you to have kaafiya (rhyme) in your ghazal. Without kaafiya, ghazal will taste like an otherwise delicious tarkaari without noon. Thank you for choosing that buddha/raaxes/jallad one as your favorite sher. That's my favorite too. That, to some extent, and the one about 'Ishwar' were the products of my conversation with Sajhaites right here, particularly with Gokul ji. The metaphor/simile of Vibhishan in your ghazal was good too. *************** Rajeev, Thank you. Although tero number ke ho did not go well with calling me Mama, I felt a warmth of intimacy in this tan-tan-ma-ma. How well it goes with Gulam Ali's ghazal Ranj ki jab guftagoo hone lagi/ aap se tum, tum se tu hone lagi that I just listened to yesterday after year's of longing to listen it again. It's very heavily laden with Urdu words, but listen to this - one of the most beautifully sang ghazal Title: Ranj ki jab - http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/l/02010L03 *************** Hellbound ji, It was a pleasure to have somebody comment on technical aspect too. Thank you. As you noted, I haven't violated the rules of 'Matla', 'Maqta' and 'Beher'. And if 'Niklyo' represents the 'radif', then I have not violated the rule of radif too. Now about kaafiya, yes I did used somewhat deceptive kaafiya. However, as far as I can see, I have not violated the rule of kaafiya too. Let me give my clarification. The kaafiya of this sher as defined by the one used in the Matla is --Ta/--ta/ (based on 'T' and 't' representing two different consonants). Therefore anything that ends in '---a' will be acceptable kaafiya for the following ashar. To illustrate: haata niklyo baaTa niklyo kaandha niklyo bariyaata niklyo baata niklyo agyaata niklyo jallaada niklyo bagdaada niklyo maujdaata niklyo aukaata niklyo anubaada niklyo One should notice that I have restricted the consonant of kaafiya to Ta-barga and ta-barga consonants. That was purely to give more degree of rhyming than the minimum required by the rule. That's all. Similarly, I have limited the sound preceding to the kaafiya sound to 'aa--'. Again, that was more than required and was intended to enhance the rhyming. So I plead no guilt, your honor ! |
| shirish | Posted
on 31-Mar-04 11:32 AM
Nepe, I don't think you need to explain. Your justifications wont be taken by your enemies and friends dont need them. You have more friends here. Believe me. You have talked much about the rules and regulations and will need to talk more. I would like to take this ghazal writing thing to the next level, i.e. the process. I understand every one will have their own style of doing things but I would like to know about you. I have a rough idea with your previous illustrations (hopefully I am right) that after you concieve an idea, you develop the skeletons with kafia and radif and fill the rest of the thing. Is that how you do it? Or are there any better ways to do it? |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 31-Mar-04 11:57 AM
Nepe, Thanks for your clarification, which you didn't have to do. Simply, you have done a great job, but since I know a few technical aspects that one should follow in writing Ghazals, I commented above. Now people like Shrish (your friend-- in his words) is thinking that I am your enemy. How many times do you get credit for honest feedback? As a matter of fact, I myself used to write 'Sher' long time back, and those who don't know -- Ghazal is the a collection of Sher( two line poems) thus, I know few rules of Ghazal; nevertheless I am not expert. Yes, Radif and kafiya make a Ghazal flow soothingly. Let's not argue over these technical aspects and ruin your good Ghazal extravaganza. |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 31-Mar-04 11:59 AM
Sir Sirish, do you judge people by name? |
| SHIRISH | Posted
on 31-Mar-04 12:42 PM
Hellbound "Sir Sirish, do you judge people by name?" Regratably, sometimes I do. And I did not mean you call you an enemy. If it sounded like that I beg your pardon. I, as a novice, regard Nepe for telling and teaching me some basics that should be in a ghazal. (I am sure you must have seen his previous postings about the rules). Thats it. He did infact gave me valuable suggestions for betterment of my writings. You did not have to be that sarcastic by calling me a "sir", otherwise I will just accept it. Why don't you post some of your old ghazal to make this mehfil more aabad. |
| Nepe | Posted
on 31-Mar-04 05:49 PM
Hellbound ji, I appreciated your remark very much. As I admitted, my kaafiya was indeed a bit deceptive. And that was for a reason. Let me tell you the story. This will also partly answer Shirish's question about the process of writing ghazal. For a long period of time, I had two sets of a small number of shers with me, one with '--aad' as kaafiya and the other with '--aat' as kaafiya. One fine day I decided to read them as '--aada' and '--aata' so that they could be grouped together to make a single ghazal with '---ta/---da/---ka/---kha/---ga/ etc as kaafiya. I selected the shers that I liked the most. And presto ! There was a nice ghazal with a good number of shers with me ! ************* Shirish ji, You have asked an interesting question- about the process of ghazal writing. As you acknowledged different people might have different ways of composing ghazals. As a matter of fact, every ghazal may have been created differently. Nevertheless, ghazal, being a collection of random shers, should start with floating relatively a large cache of raw materials (thoughts in form of statements, comments, remarks, questions, complaints, reflections and so on). This is the easiest part. Then comes the most difficult part- that is, to express each of these thoughts in just a few words (let's say 4-5 words !) so that they become or sound like a witty or proverbial expression. It is extremely important that you should be able to express each thought in, lets say, 4-5 words. Because you have to keep room for a few extra words for later to fit it into a certain beher, kaafiya and radif. If you could not express it in 4-5 words, keep trying to do so with different words and poetic tools. If you still could not make it, give it up and take up the next piece of thought. Let me illustrate with the shers of above ghazal what I mean by expressing individual thought in 4-5 words. Matla: Ghaito futyo, muththi niklyo, khoto mohar, Hare Shiva ! sher 1: Shatru thaniyo, saathi rahechha Sher 2: Bihe ko hataar-ma, keti khojna birseko (Nepali ukhan) Sher 3: Neta-laai chhadera yatru aghi badhe Sher 4: God is unknowable ? Sher 5: Jallaad ko okhati ki buddha ki daitya Sher 5: The irony of Bagdad loot and so on. I'll stop here for now. The next steps that will be compilation and thok-thak, taan-tun to make shers uniform is just the technicality and I guess we have illustrated that pretty much in our previous ghazal sessions. Shirish, I hope I answered 1% of your huge question. The remaining 99%, let's leave it for the future. |
| GoberGanesh | Posted
on 31-Mar-04 08:44 PM
Wah Wah Nepe Sir Badhai Chha.... Kati ladhai ladhiyo jyan falera, kati gazal lekhiyo ragat balera. Na jeet ko kehi thegana bhayo, na mero ti gazal gana bhayo.......:) |
| KALANKISTHAN | Posted
on 01-Apr-04 03:08 AM
Maulikta ko mahima kati gaauthis taan "deepu" Terai ghazal Gaalib ko anubaad niklyo? Haha... Now you are being modest there... Really nice ghazal hau... aru ke bhanu, aru pani jaawosh!! :D Chedta hoon ke unko gussa aaye Kyun rakhoon worna "Gaalib" apna naam... :D |
| noname | Posted
on 01-Apr-04 04:27 AM
Nepe, I agree that the Ghazal is not even good. In fact the content itself is knee jerk reaction of MAHALISAGAR, which I had jotted down as poem couple of months back. As a good student, I was just trying to submit my first homework by rearranging words of the poem as Ghazal. :) By the way I am still not getting that Kaafiya part. Let me go through few more Ghazals first. |
| Zombie | Posted
on 01-Apr-04 08:57 AM
I have been following this thread from quite since. Nepe, your gazals are incredible. I thoroughly enjoyed it though I am not capable of writing one. |
| deep | Posted
on 01-Apr-04 11:18 AM
Sapana bhanthanthe- Lakhet.do rahechhu- bhram Asafal ta yasai pani usai pani hunu nai thyo. Bhagya bhanthanthe- parkhido rahechhu-kalpana Hataas ta yasai pani usai pani hunu nai thyo. Bharosa bhanthanthe-takdo rahechhu-sanka Ranabhulla ta yasai pani usai pani hunu nai thyo. Bholi bhanthanthe-aljhido rahechhu-atiit Niraas ta yasai pani usai pani hunu nai thyo Yasai pani usai pani nibhnunai thyo-Deep Bachauchhu bhanthanthe-pal pal nibhaudo rahechhu! |
| deep | Posted
on 01-Apr-04 11:24 AM
Nepe, good one. Bachatmand taat palte, mayako karobar ma fajukkharchikai baru karod maujjad nikliyo aba yasto ta hunu nai thyo- maya lai karobar banaye pachhi! |
| shirish | Posted
on 01-Apr-04 12:10 PM
Deep, I don't know, what form of ghazal is that. What is your "kafiyaa"? radif khoi? I think, you need to review the rules of ghazal, which Nepe has illustrated again and again and your ghazal has not followed those rules. |
| deep | Posted
on 01-Apr-04 12:27 PM
Shirish, "I don't know, what form of ghazal is that. " How would/could you know? cuz what I have posted above is not a ghazal. "What is your "kafiyaa"? radif khoi?" Chhaina. Since I was only expressing my thoughts and not writing a ghazal, I did not pay attention in restricting my thoughts to ghazal rules. Anyway, I enjoy reading your posts (whenever I come across). Wish you lots of shubhakamana. |
| shirish | Posted
on 01-Apr-04 12:41 PM
he he deep katai katai ghazal ko form ko avash aauncha...katai chahi aaundaina Ma pani pahile huzur jastai thiyen..nepe ko kripa napare samma. La aarko euta aaundai cha chito...ke hi minutema, final touch didai chu |
| shirish | Posted
on 01-Apr-04 12:47 PM
tyo arko thread tesai bilaucha... ajambari yo po cha bhanere yeha hi haldiun.. 
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| Nepe | Posted
on 01-Apr-04 03:23 PM
GGji, Thank you. This is my dhrishtataa to reply to your really challanging muktak, oohi maidaan, oohi yoddaa, badaleko lakchhya matrai pahile haarai haara hunthyo, ahile jitna thaleko chhu ! ***************************** Kalanki, Wow ! Ghalib ! How purposeful life he should have lived. Even his nick was not without a purpose. ***************************** Zombie, Thank you. Remember, I try to write for readers, readers like you. I don't believe in writing for oneself. ***************************** Deep ji, You write extremely lyrical poem. You are a damn good story teller. You can also be a damn good song writer. No kidding. That said, while I could appreciate the poetic essence of your so flowing poem, I could not flow with it's pessimistic tone and confirmatory notes. Just the matter of personal belief system, I guess. ***************************** Shirish, Good attempt. But this will not let you graduate, hai ? Kaaran, the last three shers do not obey the kaafiya established by Matla. Doorghatanaa Sanbhavanaa Yojanaa (correct) Paahunaa (incorrect) Paagalkhaanaa (incorrect) Nishaanaa (incorrect) Examples of acceptable kaafiya words are: Paagalpanaa Ghanaa Gahanaa Prarthanaa Rachanaa Suchanaa Murchhanaa Tirsanaa Sambedanaa Samabedanaa etc And like financial advisors suggest their investor clients to diversify their financial profile, I will do the same with you, if you don't mind- diversify your topics. Euta na euta le euta na euta manchhe ko mutu chhune hunchha. ***************************** Noname ji, I am glad to see your interest in ghazal. May be not technically yet, but I think you are born for ghazal. I mean, ghazal is for those who have clear views (including clear doubts, clear uncertainty, clear questions and clear intentions), clear conscience and uncompromised openness. If you want to familiarize yourself with ghazal writing, have a look at the following works by great ghazal masters. Samples from Nepalikavita.com. Bund Rana's ghazal - http://www.nepalikavita.com/archive/2004/March/mar_16.htm Chanky Shrestha Phool bina-ko shakha - http://www.nepalikavita.com/Kavita_sangraha/kavita_sangraha.htm And, below is an edited version of your ghazal in your honor. It is now more or less within the rules of ghazal. beher (meter): 18 syllables in each line Kaafiya (rhyme): the letters in red ('-ee' or '-i ' ) Radif (refrain): Bhai diyeu timee Takhallus: 'Jishnu' 
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| Nepe | Posted
on 01-Apr-04 03:32 PM
Bund Rana's ghazal - http://www.nepalikavita.com/archive/2004/March/mar_16.htm Chanky Shrestha's collection Phool bina-ko shakha - http://www.nepalikavita.com/Kavita_sangraha/kavita_sangraha.htm The collection of Chanky's ghazal in Nepalikavita.com is a MUST read for the students of Nepali ghazal. Don't miss it |
| nsshrestha | Posted
on 01-Apr-04 03:37 PM
Nepe Sir, I was asked to find a representative for NepaliKavita.com for US. Any suggestion? Your self or INLS. |
| noname | Posted
on 01-Apr-04 03:48 PM
Nepe that was funny !! Specially that your choice of Takhallus...;) 'noname' wrote it and 'someonelse' got away with the credit. Nepalikavita.com is a wonderful site, but they should improve its technical aspect. By the way, here is a Ghazal by Javed Akhtar from ( I read it as assignment !! :D): - http://www.urdupoetry.com jaate jaate vo mujhe achchhii nishaanii de gayaa umr bhar doharaauu.Ngaa aisii kahanii de gayaa us se mai.n kuchh paa sakuu.N aisii kahaa.N ummiid thii Gam bhii vo shaayad baraa-e-meharabaanii de gayaa sab havaaye.N le gayaa mere sama.ndar kii ko_ii aur mujh ko ek karatii baadabaanii de gayaa Khair mai.n pyaasaa rahaa par us ne itanaa to kiyaa merii palako.n kii kataaro.n ko vo paanii de gayaa |
| shirish | Posted
on 01-Apr-04 04:08 PM
nepe wrote, 'Good attempt. But this will not let you graduate, hai ? Kaaran, the last three shers do not obey the kaafiya established by Matla. " Doorghatanaa Sanbhavanaa Yojanaa (correct) Paahunaa (incorrect) Paagalkhaanaa (incorrect) Nishaanaa (incorrect) Examples of acceptable kaafiya words are: Paagalpanaa Ghanaa Gahanaa Prarthanaa Rachanaa Suchanaa Murchhanaa Tirsanaa Sambedanaa Samabedanaa etc Thanks Nepe. I am wondering now, in the "kaffia" how many last words have to rhyme? isn't the last one sufficient? I would like to cite one example of your own, with the takallus "Jishnu", only the last letters rhyme. The ones before that end with "ee" "aa""ye""OO"... That does not exactly match with your statements. However, you have said somewhere, "close to the rules". the matlas you chose end with "ye" in chimeki and "oo" in thuli.. wait wait! some day I will graduate. Changing topic and diversification like nepalnews taking over sajha and diversify? he he...I would specialize in small topic first and then diversify as time goes on. Graduation garna ta garoh bhai rakhya cha...diversify re ajha! |
| lord_of_the_rings | Posted
on 01-Apr-04 06:55 PM
Nepe Ji. Superb. Yesto mitho gazal suneko thiyina. Thanks for posting here. |
| Deep | Posted
on 02-Apr-04 07:28 AM
Nepe sir, Aba sukh dukha bhanya ta yastai ho ni -kahile bethesda kahile rockville. **** Jhaskeko manma salkechha aago-sankako Nibhaune manchhele raajinama diyi yai bela Euti ka.mu.* ko khojima niskeko chhu- Sikisti jyanma lagechha rog-mayako Ektarfi mayaluharule byako nimto diye yai bela Euta tadartha samiti prempiditharu khojima niskeko chhu- Urlido jobanma baljhechha samjhana – priyeko Usko lognelepani sunchhu dhoka diyo re yai bela Euta sisi mattitel ko bokera salaiko khojima niskeko chhu! Jhaskeko manma salkechha aago-sankako Nibhaune manchhele raajinama diyi yai bela Euti ka.mu.* ko khojima feri niskeko chhu- [lau na koi chha chineko bhane---- :) ] ***** *ka.mu. = Kayam Mukayam |
| Nepe | Posted
on 02-Apr-04 09:25 AM
nsshrestha ji, Thanks for thinking about me. I think a person or organization with a good network with poets and writers should qualify for this job. INLS is certainly one among many who would qualify. The best thing about INLS is it's rapidly growing global network. There are other literary organizations and magazines which can take this responsibility as well. I agree with Noname ji about Nepalikavita.com. A plan of creating a universal archive of Nepali poetry from all over the world is a wonderful idea. It is obvious that in future it is going to be an indispensable source of information for both researchers and common readers as well. In fact, it already has been. **************************** Noname, That was just to illustrate the basic structure of ghazal ni ! Thanks for posting JA's ghazal. Not a masterpiece, but a nice blend of poetic lament and sarcasm indeed. **************************** Shirish, It seems I have confused you rather than making you clear about 'kaafiya'. Kaafiya is simply end-rhyming which we call antyanupras. Whatever you know about ordinary end-rhyme is for ghazal too. There is no special or complicated rules for ghazal. That said, kaafiya of a given ghazal is defined by what pair of rhyming words you use in the opening couplet (matla). To determine the kaafiya, just transilleterate (write down in roman letters) the pair of rhyming words. You will find a common end between them. You will also see that the first letter of that common end is always a VOWEL (swor). Sometimes you will find only one vowel (swor) as the common end (like in the edited version of Noname's ghazal; the common end of rhyming pair in the matla is chhimekee/ thoolee). So, for the kaafiya in the following shers, just find the word that has the same common end you found in the rhyming pair of words in the matla. That's all. You are free to put any letters as well as any number of letters preceding to that common end. As for kaafiya in matla, you should have at least one VOWEL as the common end, like any other poetry with rhyme. (as exemplified by Noname's matla and also mine, look at the original ghazal of this thread). The more the number of letters in the common end, the better they would sound. However, at the same time you will have lesser degree of freedom to choose kaafiya words for other shers ! So it is a choice between degree of freedom and degree of sweetness. My suggestion- start with high degree of freedom. *********************** LOTR ji, Thank you. *********************** Deep ji, Wah ! Ka.mu. and tadartha samiti ! If there is any word that describes the essence of our weakness during past half century of our history, then it is tadrthabad, me thinks. Your captured our history by your little words, Deep ji. |
| mitra 2 | Posted
on 02-Apr-04 09:44 AM
Deep bro le tyo Key* nadya bhe hune... kabita, ghazal bhanya ta aa-aafno gacchhe anusar bhujne haina ra? :) |
| SITARA | Posted
on 02-Apr-04 10:25 AM
Mitra ji finds fault with the * or does he find fault with the * as an indicator or does he find the * offesive to the gazal???? |
| mitra 2 | Posted
on 02-Apr-04 10:38 AM
Sitara ji, haina haina.. malai Deep ko katha kabita ko star (*) haru khub man parchha. euta * matra haina, duita ** bhaye pani hunchha... |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 02-Apr-04 10:52 AM
Mehafil khub jamira cha:) |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 02-Apr-04 10:59 AM
I know some of the hindi pieces piss some of you off, but let me pour a couple of lines: 'arz-e-niyaaz-e-ishq ke qaabil naheeN raha jis dil pe naaz tha mujhe wo dil naheeN raha [ niyaaz = desire/an offering ] marne ki 'ei dil aur hee tadabeer kar ki maiN shaayaan-e-dast-o-baazu-e-qaatil naheeN rahaa [ tadabeer = solution/remedy, shaayaan = worthy, dast = hand, baazoo = shoulder ] -- Mirza Ghalib |
| SITARA | Posted
on 02-Apr-04 11:01 AM
:)))) |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 02-Apr-04 11:02 AM
dhota hooN jab maiN peene ko us seem_tan ke paaNv rakhata hai zid se kheeNch ke baahar lagan ke paaNv dee saadgee se jaan paDooN kohakan ke paaNv haihaat ! kyoN na TooT gaye peerzan ke paaNv hai josh-e-gul bahaar meiN yaaN tak ki har taraf uDate hue ulajhte haiN murGH-e-chaman ke paaNv |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 02-Apr-04 11:03 AM
I am sorry if I tainted this thread:) |
| Deep | Posted
on 02-Apr-04 11:05 AM
Najiskyau malai aaja Man dhamiliyeko chha Chhadmaveshi timra baan Firta bhaigo nalukau aaja Nabolau malai aaja Samarpan behosiyeko chha Baadal jhai timra bacha Firta bhiago nauthau aaja Na.aau bhetna malai aaja Antim pana paltiyeko chha Chhaya jasto timro saath Firta bhaigo nalaijau aaja Najiskyau malai aaja, Man dhamiliyeko chha Chhadmaveshi timra baan Firta bhaigo nalukau aaja |
| Dilasha | Posted
on 02-Apr-04 12:03 PM
Enjoyed this thread. Please keep on posting more ghazals. Nepe ji, I liked the first piece you posted. However I am a bit amused by your use of hindi/urdu words on a nepali ghazal. huna ta aa aaphno taste ko kura ho but aren't the words "bariyaat", "jalaad", "maujdaat" too agantuk? just curious....have a nice weekend! |
| Biswo | Posted
on 02-Apr-04 12:12 PM
Ma pani ke kam. I don't write poetry, but long ago, I published one muktak in Yuva Manch when I was still a I.Sc. student. Guess what? that was the only muktak thingy I ever wrote. Directly influenced by Ishwar Ballav's Aagokaa Phulharu hun, Aagokaa Phulharu hainan. Samsad --------- Bhannele bhanchhan Sunnele sunchhan. Bhannele bhandainan Sunnele sundainan. |
| nsshrestha | Posted
on 02-Apr-04 02:22 PM
Ma pani thapau hai euta? Bachna Sarai Garo bhayo, aja adheri ma Jun boki bhetna aau hai hamro padherai ma! |
| nsshrestha | Posted
on 02-Apr-04 02:31 PM
padherai = padheri |
| Nepe | Posted
on 03-Apr-04 11:20 AM
Hellbound ji, The level of my Urdu is so low (shame !) and knowledge of Urdu literature so nil, I laughed at myself when I wrote the maqta of my ghazal, Mauliktaa_ko mahimaa kati gaaunthis tan "Deepu" Terai ghazal Ghalib_ko anubaad niklyo. How could I translate and plagiarize the thing I hardly understand ? They say Ghalib's works are not easy to grasp. His shers are profoundly philosophical. He looks at life in unconventional ways. He often had to disregard the limit of grammatical language to express himself. Even that was not enough. He is said to have told that Shayari was not enough for him to express everything. Paradoxically, he never used media other than shayari. Anyway, I could make a sense of the ghazal 'arz-e-niyaaz..' However, 'Dhota hoon..' was beyond my capacity. Dictionary wouldn't help. Seem_tan (gori), lagan (khadkulo ?), kohakan (pahaad forne maanchhe), peerzan (briddaa), murgh (chari) must be some special symbol, myth or metaphor. However, there is one interesting technical note for the student of ghazal. A ghazal can have more than one matla. In the ghazal 'Dhota hoon..', the second sher is also a matla ! By the way, Hellbound ji, was there any reason for choosing these particular ghazals of Ghalib ? ************** Deep, Yet another quite lyrical poem. By the way, what's 'baan' ? *************** Dilasha, Hindi/Urdu words ? Ye Hazoor, aafno aang ma bhainsi nadekhne, arkako aang ma jumra dekhne ? Hazoor ko nick 'Dilasha' chhahi kati % pure Nepali ni ? Anyway, I think the Hindi/Urdu words that has been in use in Nepali language and literature in the past or present should be acceptable for Nepali ghazal. I had a small discussion with Biswo ji regarding sanskritization of Nepali language a year ago or so. I had argued against it. I prefer Englisization over Sanskritization of our language. But that is not the topic of discussion here. Among the words you referred, 'Jallaad' may be too aagantuk. However, 'mauzdaat' is a naturalized Nepali word (used in accountancy in banks and offices). And 'bariyaat' is really Nepali. It;s Hindi equivalent is 'baaraat'. In classical Nepali literature- I suppose in Sama's, Moti's or even in Devkota's work, you will find the word 'Jallaad' widely being used. It's raithaane Nepali eqivalent, 'Kasaai'. 'Podey', 'bagadey' have unpleasant casteist connotation. I'll rather go for 'Jallaad'. ************* Biswo ji, I have read your Nepali story. I am surprised that with that proficiency of language, you haven't tried poetry. Anyway, this one was a cute and telling muktak. ************* nsshrestha ji, Romantic ! However, 'haamro pandheri' does not paint the same imagery as 'panaghat' in Hindi potery would do, no ? Krishna the lover used to go to panghat to rag Gopinis the beloved. However, Nepali men do not do the same. Do they ? |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 07-Apr-04 07:47 AM
Nepe, I never noticed that you replied to me in this thread, and posed questions. Well, in my understanding regarding Mirza Ghalib, he was one of the founders of the modern Urdu ghazal. he received very limited recognition in his lifetime, but with the passage of time he has been acknowledged as an absolute master of his art! He has become the most quoted Urdu poet ever. His poetry has an irresistible charm and beauty. It has wit, irony and a wealth of human experience. His diction can be sweet and simple or so complex and pregnant with meaning that it lends itself to multiple interpretations! This is the mark of a true genius!!! GHam-e-hastee ka 'Asad' kis'se ho juz marg ilaaz shamma'a har rang meiN jaltee hai sahar hone tak [ hastee = life/existence, juz = other than, marg = death, sahar = morning ] -- Ghalib |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 07-Apr-04 07:50 AM
By the way, Nepe ji, is your Ghazal ever been composed and sung? |
| Deep | Posted
on 07-Apr-04 09:01 AM
"Deep, Yet another quite lyrical poem. By the way, what's 'baan' ? " Nepe sir, baan bhanya tiir ni---heri dhanus baan ke ta sir tyo arjun le mahabharat ma dana dan dini ke ta... Bahakiyo bhanchhan duniya Nabhakina khojeko haina Nirdosh bhaneko chhaina Doshi ho yo bhanchhan duniya... |
| Biswo | Posted
on 07-Apr-04 11:09 AM
Nepe, I think poetry is more about detail. It requires more thought, more patience to pore over a particular, may be very small and shortlived, state of life. I guess I lack that faculty. I always loved Nepali classic poems. Lekh Nath's Lalitya is my all time favorite. I don't mind the Sanskrit words, because they make me feel we are as good in language/culture as others. I don't think Sanskrit belongs to others, while Jharro is ours. We know Sanskrit was an ancient language that was in use in the subcontinent.I know my grandfather studied Sanskrit. I know most of a lot of our historical relics use Sanskrit to inscribe the documents. Languages are used for having comfort in expression.I remember Quest Of Fire(1982 classic) that provides a very good (perhaps fictional) example of how a particular tribe with language was more capable than others. Language is a part of culture. Those languages which have great books belong to great civilizations that other civilizations look upto. Isn't it interesting that we know more about 18th century England or Russia , tks to Dickens and Tolstoy, than Nepal. (I particular recall asking a lot of people what they used to sell in restaurants in Pokhara a hundred years ago, none of the people I asked had any definite answer. We just lived, died and erased the history. History for us is totally totally about kings and PMs and their lives.) Ability to express our abstract thoughts is the key in our ability of expression, and that's where Sanskrit still rules. Yes, we can use English, Urdu or any language we like and we think the readers will understand. But let's not forget that we may be using English / Urdu to substitute the words we have, our ancestors used already. |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 07-Apr-04 12:24 PM
I guess there’s no fix rule of poetic metamorphosis. Imagination and perfect feeling of things, such as natural sceneries, a lover, or a bird, that are around you, are what you need in writing poetry. You write a poem when you grab the nearest scrap of paper and portray your thoughts with the harmony of words so that your imagination or feeling doesn’t get lost forever. Nevertheless, the poetry may not be as good as what you attempted to scribble. Let the rhythm of feelings flow into imaginative brook. This cadence of your feeling puts another important spice in writing poetry. Often times, my poetries remain incomplete while I am disturbed. Since the rhythm and lyricism are very important aspect of art, your poetry’s sound can be examined and bettered through matching and arranging the words that create a certain feeling through the timbre of their syllables. Not to stray away from original topic of this thread, I think same things can be integrated while writing Ghazals. Like everybody else, I am also fascinated by different cultures and their languages. Learning as many languages as possible is one of my leisure pursuit, such as Urdu or English. In Nepali, I like contemporary and metaphoric poems more than old ones. However, I like chanda kabitas from mid 19th centuary, like ‘Balak Baburo’ from kabi Siromani Lekha naath Poudyal (I hope I am not mistaken |
| shirish | Posted
on 07-Apr-04 12:37 PM
Hell bound, You write nicely and seem to have lots of grasp of literature. I have one complain with you. Your nick: "Hell bound" kind of tarnishes your image and lessens the weight of what you are saying. Is it just my perception? Can you please change that ? So that I can have better imagination of yours. and continue with the discussion. Not apiralling down where there is fire and hot tapke with 150.c oil. Again, you might ask..do you weigh a person with his name? |
| SITARA | Posted
on 07-Apr-04 01:13 PM
I for one, do like Hellbound's name. Has a touch of a fiend, a shade of an "enfant terrible" if you will. That and the potent mixture of gazals brings across the dangerous (bordering on the fatal) yet sensitive qualities of "The Highwayman"! Hai! hai! kya khatranak mixture! Ooops, am I romanticizing your name Hellbound ji???! Such is the imagery created by the name!!! |
| Nepe | Posted
on 07-Apr-04 10:13 PM
Deep, Kasto hussu ma ! tyati jaabo 'baan' pani Thammyaauna nasakeko. 'baan' ko sataamaa 'baaN' lekheko bhaye almallinnathen holaa. -------------------------------------------- Hellbound ji, Nice thoughts on poetry. I think poetry is broadly what natural flow of thought is. That plus our natural instinct for music makes Geet-ghazals. That's the basic part. Then comes the thoughts and emotions poet wants to convey and share with the readers (including him/herself). To me, a good poem is one which is not too much cryptic and obscure. Of course the obscurity depends on my ability to interpret , feel or smell the poem. On your name, I can feel a tinge of what Sitara tried to paint. On the other hand, on a political note (based on your political views from elsewhere), your political position is better captured by a name 'Rebound' rather than by 'Hellbound'. Ghazalkar na hun, rhyme ma pugihalchhu. On Rebound love with Monarchy (based on your own account) ! But how far can one go with rebound love ? Or has it already become a true love ? I understand your frustrations. I forgot where I heard, but here is an agnate misra Dost ko aajmaate jaawo, dushman se pyar ho jaayega True at the moment of frustrations and confusion. But one day to regret and laugh about, no ? ---------------------------------------- Biswo ji, We just lived, died and erased the history. History for us is totally totally about kings and PMs and their lives.) A candid remark about our lack of sense of real history. Befitting to this perhaps, it had to be a Japanese journalist, Kiyoko Ogura, to chronicle our history of 1990 ! By the way, have you read her book 'Kathmandu Spring' or recently released Nepali version 'Janata jaageko bela' ? On Sanskrit/English, our old conversation might be interesting to our readers. So here is the link Thread : Fantasy Crowds And Revelations Date:04-Feb-02 - http://www.sajha.com/archives/openthread.cfm?threadid=3298&dsn=sajhaarchive |
| M.P. | Posted
on 07-Apr-04 11:19 PM
Nepe and Biswo dais:* I invite you both for a beer party at my place the next day this pathetic king loses his face and hands over the power to the Jantakaa Chhora. Bring your gazals along. I will save the emails I have been getting for critizing the army; I print them out, read it aloud and will burn them that day. If that does not happen within a year, start looking for my picture--or at least the name (in the list of injured or dead people)--after June 2005 in the Kantipur. On a side note, there were three interesting articles in Kantipur yesterday, one by Barber BRB, another by Bhakta Lohan (both PhDs) and a third one by my all time favorite Khagendra Sangroula. If you read the articles, did you notice the different tones--one coming from someone backed by nothing but guns, another backed by nothing but a hopeless king and a third one, confident, insightfuli, backed by the PEOPLE! Sorry I digressed the topic. Gazals rule, but so do the Janata! :) --------- * Let's make this clear. I will be addressing both of you as dais from now on. I have seen both of your photos and know where you go. |
| M.P. | Posted
on 07-Apr-04 11:20 PM
We will burn just the emails, not the gazals. Just wanted to make sure I was clear. |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 08-Apr-04 07:00 AM
Sirish, Thanks for your comments and concerns. Brother, I hear you; however, I would glue with this name. No more remarks on my name, for I’ve been self-righteous about it. Again, in simple words, judging or ignoring people on the basis of name is equivalent to discriminating people on the basis of race or color discrimination. I often hear complains from our own Nepali brothers like you, of being discriminated in the US. Now, see who’s discriminator is. I comment on Sajha when I am bored; my purpose to visit Sajha is not to fight or feud with people, needless to say. If some people have problem with Hellbound, I would say they just cannot confront me. In addition to that, I don’t have attention seeking disorder :-) |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 08-Apr-04 07:02 AM
Mere arbu (naam) ke Ahal-e-junuun (lovers), Rusavaaii par tule huye ho (to give bad name), Naam ko badnaam karne ka masaruuf ho Kitna Ahal-e-ishq he ye teri Aagaaz-e-ulfat mee mai ne kiya hai, husn-e-Khud_aara ko behijaab Ai shauq, yaaN ijaazat-e-tasleem-e-hosh hai gauhar ko ikd-e-gardan-e-KHubaaN meiN dekhna kya auj par sitaara-e-gauhar farosh hai |
| SITARA | Posted
on 08-Apr-04 07:47 AM
Hellbound ji yeso translate gardiye... punya hunthyo! All I understood was "Gauhar Sitara!". Although I do hail from the Gaon called Kathmandu! :( |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 08-Apr-04 07:51 AM
Sitara, I, for I've been patrolling this boundry, want to make sure no enfant can flee and no chaste enters, without legitimate licit of Yamaraj. Thanks for grasping the blend of generosity:-) |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 08-Apr-04 07:56 AM
gauhar ko ikd-e-gardan-e-Khubaan meiN dekhna kya auj par sitaara-e-gauhar farosh hai gauhar = pearl/gem, ikd-e-gardan = necklace, KHubaan = a beautiful person/sweetheart, auj = highest point, farosh = wit Now you can interpret:-) |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 08-Apr-04 08:05 AM
>> Your political position is better captured by a name 'Rebound' rather than by 'Hellbound'. Sorry, I don't have that whim of Dennis Rodman or Wilt Chamberlein; otherwise, I would take each and every rebounds of bricks and rocks that were thrown amongst our sinless janata, and slap a slam dunk on Coach, saying “coach you have putrid game plan”:-) |
| SITARA | Posted
on 08-Apr-04 09:28 AM
Hai hai Hellbound ji! Surely, you have educated this Urduotic idiot. If you will allow me, I will wallow in the translated words briefly...in a rosy hue and blush to the tinge of fine wine. :) You say you have been patrolling the boundary Hellbound ji? Thrilling, thrilling! There is another who has your job too... our very own, new, Dominatrix; she comes with whips and cuffs, looking for the bad ones!!! ;)) |
| Biswo | Posted
on 08-Apr-04 01:34 PM
M.P. The party will be in my place:-) We will pull one all-nighter! Btw, I didn't know there was an article by Bhakta Lohani. I am a regular reader of Sangraula, and I like him. The problem with the last article, however, was that Manjushri wrote a letter and said the putative dialogue between Sangraula and Manjushri were fictional and perhaps figurative. I wish Sangraula had been more forthright in that depiction. -- Nepe, I thank you for posting that thread. The fact that I still had some faith on king Gyanendra, and I was bitterly against NC for not taking against any of its corrupt ministers were also sideshows of the posting. |
| Nepe | Posted
on 09-Apr-04 02:02 PM
M?P? ji, Maharaj Gyanendra must have realized by now, presuming he has some sense, that people who came to his staged felicitations were there not to return what they had gotten forcibly from his brother, but to hear if he is willing to solve Maoist problem with appropriate self.sacrifice? Whether he has realized this or not and is still in the grip of greed and nostalgia of autocratic yesteryears, one thing is becoming clearer by every hour to Nepalis that they have only two choices. Monarchy or the republicanism? There is no middle road? The illusion of middle road is over? We are just waiting for the final showdown? It's just the matter of how long it will take for the Maoists and the parliamentary parties from two extremes to converge at a common point of democratic republicanism and on the other side the royalist forces and sympathizers to be behind Maharajdhiraj? This is where our youth have a lot to contribute? |