| Username |
Post |
| Kalapani |
Posted
on 02-Aug-01 01:40 PM
How would we define the marwadese that are born and raised in Nepal. One of my best friends here in Boston is one. And its reallly hurts my feeling when I hear other people making fun of his kind. Like calling him Dhoti lotta, or channa chatpat, or Khali sheesi etc. etc. This person was born in Nepal, speaks nepali, went to Nepali school. He feels more comfortable with Nepali than Indians. But still I hear people saying,'Tyo Madhishe ko Ho??' at nepali gatherings. are we ever going to over this stigma ??? Judging from reading the coments here on this site, I don't think Nepal(Zone of peace) will ever be tolerent to people of different kind. Be it Bhramin, chetri, newar, or magar or whatever.
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| 579som |
Posted
on 02-Aug-01 01:59 PM
i very much agree with you kalapani. personally i think most nepali people
are hypocrites. they want to watch hindi movies/T.V, listen to hindi songs, and
wear indian clothes, but yet whenever they see a madwadi or an indian they
start to look down upon them. it is very sad indeed.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 02-Aug-01 02:43 PM
Kalapaniji:
This site has promoted social tolerance and mutual respect as long as I know.
Only those people who doesn't use their own name has vented racist comments
here.
If you type 'Marwari' or 'Madhise' in search of Kurakani, you can probably find
that our discussants have raised the issue of tolerance, and decried bigotry.
Marwaris are as much Nepalis as are Rai or Limbu or Bahun or Newars. Some
people are simply jealous of the progress made by Marwaris (acc to one
discussant of gbnc, with whom I agree totally).
Nepalis should follow the footsteps of Marwaris, whose business entrepreneurship
and whose kindness towards poor people, and whose devotion to religion has
always impressed me.
Only when we teach our kids not to use derogatory and communal words against
fellow Nepalese can we change the communal face of our nation.I think that if
we don't teach people right now about the importance of social harmony, sooner
or later, like Maoist problem, communal problem may also grip the nation.
Thanks for raising such important issue. Those people who use such word against
their fellow Nepali should apologize, or at least promise they will never do
so again.
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| tarai bashi |
Posted
on 02-Aug-01 03:21 PM
Not to generalize or anything but lot of Nepali people have loser mentality, very negative and they can't stand others doing good. Jealous mentality I suppose. Aafu pani gardaina aru le gareko pani man pardaina.
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| Kalapani |
Posted
on 02-Aug-01 03:37 PM
Is there anything we can do to overcome this stigma ??? anybody has any solution... would be greatly appreciated. How can we make our people more tolerent ??? I am not talking seminars. But plan of action to make people more sensitive towards others.
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| Basant |
Posted
on 02-Aug-01 03:42 PM
Nepali culture has a long way to go as far as maturing is concerned. Calling names, intolerance. putting other people down, we are experts on this subject. Any white person is Quire Bander, any black man is a Kaale Hopsi and it goes on and on. One major problem could be education. But that is just an assumption.
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| me |
Posted
on 02-Aug-01 04:05 PM
but, i also have seen many people with a degree just as ignorant when it comes down to looking at other fellow human beings. maybe the key is to read and read - on various subjects and if time and money permit travel. i can say be open minded but what does that mean? try not to look throught the tainted glasses. before you pass judgement shake off those prejudices. NOT look through the glasses of castes! As you have seen in these past few weeks. maybe nepali people have inferiority complex, what do you think?
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 02-Aug-01 06:25 PM
I think degree doesn't necessarily mean tolerance. A jealous and greedy person is
more likely to be intolerant to other persons irrespective of his degree.
In Nepal, people must teach their kids not to use communal slur in any case. Movies
should not show criminals to be belonging to a particular community. I think the role
played by Santosh Panta in "25 Basanta" was a shameful and bigoted one.
I had a friend named Rabindra Pudasaini. He was originally from KTM, but since
he lived his whole life in Birgunj,his pronunciation was Madhise. He was often
ridiculed for that by some other 'pure' Nepalese. Worse, some people in KTM also
think these people to be Indians. With such poor sense of judgement, a lot of us
are just being ignorant and unfair to our owns.
A lot of Nepalese people don't know that our own patriots, experts, artists and
writers are Madhises. Madhises are not all pawns, not all agree to Gajendra
Narayan Singh's pro-Indian agenda and HIndi demands. Maithili and Bhojpuri is
spoken by more people in Nepal than Hindi. Janaki, and Gautama Buddha were
Madhises too.If we become so angry when Gautama Buddha is claimed by India,
then why do we want other Buddha's progeny to be Indians or sub-Nepalese?
It is interesting that MaaLe students whose reckless jingoism has done no good
to our nation until now, and who were in the forefront to destroy movie halls and
beat Madhise faces in Rhitik Roshan episodes has picked up the cause of an Indian
dam near Lumbini. A lot of those students are probably marching to that area
now. Hopefully, they will now know that Madhises are the real Nepalese who
are threatened by Indian expansionism.
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| sally |
Posted
on 02-Aug-01 07:18 PM
Biswo, what a great point about the nature of the Buddha's birthplace!!!
I find the prejudice against Madhise Nepalis really sad. Many Madhise families have been in the Terai as long or longer (sometimes MUCH longer) than their Pahadia Nepali neighbors--who are, of course, descended themselves from people who would have been considered Madhises in the 14th century or whenever Brahmins and Chhetris fled the Muslim invasions in India. Many Nepalis understand this and are deeply tolerant, whether educated or not. But sadly, prejudice often speaks louder than tolerance, especially among those who realize that scapegoating is a quick and easy way to power.
Why someone who comes to KTM from a Madhise village in the Terai should be considered an Indian is truly beyond me. How can people complain, on the one hand, about Bhutan's ejection of ethnic Nepalis born and raised in Bhutan, while also ignoring the Nepali-ness of Madhises?
To me, the various Madhise communities are one of the many things that makes Nepal so fascinating and culturally rich.
Speaking of what people will find in the part of Nepal surrounding Lumbini, here are the Rupandehi stats (1996 estimate) on native language:
Bhojpuri: 309,350
Nepali: 225,264
Tharu: 20,056
Hindi: 9,668
Magar: 8,928
Newari: 7,831
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| GP |
Posted
on 02-Aug-01 10:24 PM
Racism or racist statements are so intact in Nepal, that all
Gali galos and jokes are fully based racists. As one of them
"Bahun le chyau khayo na swad payo", well, I know the
swad of Chyau, and its time to stop all those racist words
phrases, or jokes. At least, educated peoples should start.
The education system in Nepal that loads at least 10s of
Kilos inside the single digit aged kids' bag, still lags enough
education material in social sciences. Well, in Japan,
the single digit aged kids (< 10) are not taught
differential equation or diode triode, but, are taught
how to talk with seniors in public places, friends in
closed rooms, parents at home. Even "Ta Ta ra ma ma"
are taught so that kids can understand what is
RESPECT, formal, casual and informal. Did we know
(those who studied in average schools for -middle class- )
ever learned? Did we practice ? Well, we might have
learned in bulky pages, but, no one ever illustrated
those RESPECT, formal, casual and informal. stuffs.
We learned everything by doing live while moving
inside our closed society BAHUN kids within BAHUNs,
like that, so we learned more hates, weakness, dirty jokes,
based on what ethnic group we belongs. But,
we never tried to read what opponent feels ? i.e we
were grown up in isolated environments and thats
why when we find someone alone within our own
majority, we start calling him ". . . . ", while we
continue to get disappointed when get same
treat while we are in minority, whether its in
USA or in Japan or in Nepal.
The second economy, Japan, still lags racism education
when it comes to face foreigners. When Govinda Mainali
had relation with a Jap. 'callgirl' and the girl killed by
gangs later (1997), the Jap. police even trapped Govinda
Mainali, because the gang was not approachable to the
Police and police has satisfy public. While Japanese
news media and Police have such great relation, that
when a foreigner commits a crime, they, air it for
months if not year to tell the public that foreigners
are ALIENS and are dangerous elements and becareful
type of indirect messages. When a criminal is not
known, then, the TVs especailly Fuji TV, tells that
a person that looks like Chinese was seen at the
site, who can distinguish between Chinese and
Japanese by seeing at the face, as long they dont
speak a word, but, the news media is so biased that
they try to portray the crimes in Japan are all done
by non-Japanese. Its fact. Its what whole state is
racially biased. Similarly, the MOVIE production in
Nepal is so biased that its very sad to see those cinemas.
Well, I remember one very sad moment in Nepal.
In Pokhara, I went to a bank to help one illeterate
relatives of mine. I was wating to finish that work
and sitting on waiting bench for customers, suddenly,
3-4 persons came to me and said that they lost a
Rs. 50 from their bunch of 50rupee notes (their
count showed 99 out of 100sheets of 50rupees
notes), then, they told me "yo bahun keta le
jhikyo hola" and started searching my pockets.
I was surprised. They said, "Yaha, ta bahek
aru kohi ta chhaina, aru ta sabai .... matra chhan,
tiniharule tyasto pocket marne kaam gardainna".
I deined as I did not do it, and asked them to
count, they said they counted very well,
finally, I asked them, whether I can count the
nots, and I found it surprisingly 100, and asked
them to count again, and the clerk in the Bank
again counted and finall, I escaped from possible PITAI,
as I did not even had 50rupees in my pokect, hardly
had I 5rupees. Now, I do not blame them, when I have to
reCycle my memories, but, blame it to the lack of our education
system, and our social structure where we grow up
in isolated environments. I think we need to grow our
kids in mixed environment so that they can get rid of
those prejudices. Todays ethnic movements should
make a goal to learn own culture including the cross culture
studies. Isolated environments will invite more disasters.
One of the best solution would be "Cross culture marriages".
In fact, kids borned from cross-culture marriages are
Ambassadors to stability. Though, first generation will
suffer, but, it will have positive changes. Well, scientists
have warned that "BLONDE HAIR" people will disappear (after 300years)
because of inter-race marriages, especially, in south
America, because, BLONDE HAIRed peoples have weak
DNAs.
Sorry for being long.
GP
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| Mahesh |
Posted
on 03-Aug-01 11:05 AM
Could it be because Nepali people stick to their own kind ?? Like they don't want their own to cross racial barriers. Newars want their kids to marry their own kind, same with the magars, bahuns etc. In the past the intermingling of Jaatbhat was strictly prohibited. Maybe that is why we are so intolerent. That probably one of the root of the cause of our cutthroat nature. Puting other jaats down.
Now that people seem to be more tolerant than before. But we still have a long ways to go. Education does play a big part in this area. We see more interracial marriage in Nepal now than ever before. The next generation I personally think are going to be much more tolerent.
If we look back in the history, Nepal was always like this. Before Prithibi Narayan united the country, we were always fighting and ploting against each other. It could be hereditary too(in our genes).
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| Anil |
Posted
on 03-Aug-01 12:30 PM
I had a very awkward experience once in an Indian restaurant over here in Boston. An Indian friend and I had gone there for a dinner. There was a nepali didi working there. Knowing that she is a nepali, I said namaste didi and started a general talk. She was also happy to meet another Nepali. As we were talking, she asked, if my friend is also a Nepali, and I said no, he is an Indian. Then she said, "Indian re....kasari saathi huna sakcha". I was so surprised and ashamed. Why do we have such ill feelings towards Madhesies....either from the Terai region or Indians itself? I was so surprised to hear her say that even though she was working in an Indian owned restaurant. Maybe they were not treating her well, maybe being exploited. But then that's the general nepali attitudes towards Madhesies.
Regarding the "Indian hatred issue", I believe we can learn so many things from those hard working people.
Once, I was talking to a hawker in Nepal, he was from Bihar, and he told me that he makes enough money slugging here to send home and have his daughters married off. Is he cutting off on the profits of Nepalis, maybe yes. But then we also have so many Nepalis working in India and earning "company money".
One other thing we can surely learn from India is about education. I went to a Regional Engineering college in India and learned from them how difficult it was for them to get into the college. There are so much competitions for them over there. Right from Class 10, they start preparing for IITs and Medical exams. They know they have to score high just to get into a good decent college. After they come to college, then they start preparing for Civil Service Exams and the IIMs and the GREs and GMATs. They prepare. They work hard. Maybe we don't have many colleges in Nepal for any such kind of competitions. Maybe because we get so many Colombo Plan scholarships and other scholarships. Maybe it's easy to get into these scholarships if you have some contacts, some "sorce-force", or sell family property to give donations to get into colleges in Bangalore. Or maybe we are too lazy. Lot's of my friend wants to come here. They ask me if there are colleges where you don't need to give GRE, in some case TOEFL too. And if you are talking to an Indian guy in college, he would ask when should I be giving the GRE, what is the contact addresses of the professors to ask for funding. Maybe we just don't have that kind of attitude.
Well these are some of my experiences of a general Nepali. Maybe things have changed in Nepal now with so many colleges coming up, with so many friends and relatives over here and the world opening up.
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| aakas |
Posted
on 03-Aug-01 01:04 PM
Well, its very sad that nepali are like that. I do consider him as one of the nepali brother like rest of us. People who tries to separate him are full of bullshit dumb ass and we all know you can't change the thinking power of these dumbs.
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| sparsha |
Posted
on 03-Aug-01 01:58 PM
This topic is quite interesting. It's obvious that many Nepalese do consider "Indian looking" people not on par (unless they happened to be "rich") with them. One does not have to be an Indian (just Madhesi look is enough) to draw nasty comments (I don't want to repeat them here, Kalapani has mentioned some) from a large group of Nepalis. This "Indian bashing" is more widely visible in Kathmandu than in other Terai towns, I think. It's partly the courtesy of India's "big brother" attitude towards Nepal, partly because of some "different looking" guys' bad behavior, partly because their "poorness", partly because it's "fun" to many (especially kids, when they see elders ridiculing those Madhises they think it's a standard procedure), and partly because..list goes on.
Once in a gathering in Greater Boston, a guy mentioned an incident with joy, he couldn't stop his laughter because the incident was too funny for him. That "funny" incident was like this: Two "tirtha yatri Marsyas" (his words) are strolling around Gaushala after getting off from an Indian bus. It's dusk and the incident teller and his other friends are also hanging around there. For some or none reason one of his friends (let's call him A, A also used to live in greater Boston but not anymore) gathers all his angers towards those tirtha yatris and says "e marsyaharulai ta..." and runs towards them without completing the sentence. Before those tirtha yatris realize what's going on A's violent kick falls on one of them. When the spared tirtha yatri sees his frined on ground he runs towards bankali with all his energy...Is this sad or funny?
Once myself and other couple of friends (one was marwadi, we called him made and he himself would refer to him as made with his close friends) were eating in a restaurant in lexington, Kentucky. That made friend was born and raised in Nepal. He was from Biratnagar..so he was fluent in Bihari, his Rajasthani was flawless (as others said), and his Nepali was nothing less than mine. Anyway, in that restaurant we saw some Indian looking families at the other corner. And this Made goes...tya herna madhiseko hul, lota ta dekhtina ni ma hera hera keta ho dhoti ko lota... Now what is this?
sparsha
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| Satya |
Posted
on 04-Aug-01 12:30 AM
This is not a time to Make 'chandan'. I mean, most Indian originated animals - from Hindus' to Marwardis are all "Poo" for us (Nepali). So, If we use 'Poo' as a 'Chandan' then it really Smells as bad as Rusted Corps.
So, we Nepali cann't accept it at any cost. Unless they don't improve their way of lives and way of Think, We don't needn't to be fooled by Posting - irrelevent article headlined under "marwardees".
This is time for Nepali's people to Nepali whereever we are by being a real Ndepali then u can be proud urslef and make ur country people "pride"
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| EastSideBoy |
Posted
on 04-Aug-01 01:22 AM
Indians? Hardworking?
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 04-Aug-01 02:36 AM
The crux of the discussion here is not to evaluate the India or Indians. We are
talking about Nepalese, who look like Indians, or of Indian origin.For those people
who have inveterate anti-Madhise complex, just a question: what happens if
they raise the arm under the invisible auspice of Indian government? Terai is like
the land of American western: vast and stretched where criminals can roam with
relatively less fear of bumping into legal structure. They will not be as easy(yea)
as Maoists to invite to dialogue.(And at least, Maoist are strict in national issue.)
I don't like Indian government's policy wrt Nepal. In a recent bilateral meeting, they
are raising issue of our some 'export surge'. Hell. We are having lopsided
trade imbalance against us.It is our job to talk to them about their 'export surge'
but the rality is opposite here, mind-boggling.India talking about our export surge?
Also,they must know that they are scaring away our foreign investors (like Kodak).
But what these things have to do with our own Madhise people? They are not the
beneficiary of these decisions and prejudices.
We berate Indians for Koshi dam. Yet when India closes its sluice gates in raining
season, our Madhise villages get inundated. Flood casualty in Nepal often involves
districts like Sarlahi, Rautahat, and Saptari, not like Kaski, Khotang or Lalitpur. I
mean we know they are our people. Those people (from those districts) look to us
expecting our help in providing them security.
The traditional lore passed down to us from our progenitors always emphasized
one thing: Satya (truth) will always win. We must work hard to keep our community
cohesive, and move forward along the right path.It is not coincidence that almost
all of the tolerant and cohesive society in the world are rich and civilized.
Long live the tolerance of our society. Down with the hatred.
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| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 04-Aug-01 07:47 AM
Bonjour, namaste and ni hao,
a great discussion. I did learn a great deal by reading fellow posters comments.
How about discussing reverse racism which goes on in nepal and in this site a lot. By reverse racism, i mean people attacking certain groups for no reason whatsoever like the ones which start with bajey etc, especially directed towards me and others who do not hesitate to post messages using their real names.
Trailokya
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| Mahesh |
Posted
on 06-Aug-01 11:11 AM
Another reason could be the way our govt is setup. Our religion and govt. is so intertwined that people have hard time distinguishing one from another. Hindu religion is not as tolerant as we might want to believe. And it being tied to the govt. makes it even tougher. The whole jaat system itself is the worst form of discrimination you can find. That alone could be the root of the cause. If we want to change our society, we would have to get rid of that whole mentality first.
In the past our govt openly discriminated agaist Christians, Muslims, and BUdhists in the country. And the govt also picked only certain kinds of jaats to the high positions. Even changed the entire education system to their advantage.
Even after that revolution nothing seems to have changed much. Thanks to the western influence(movies, music), things seem to be slowly changing. But along with that comes the unwanted influence as well. Like violence, attitude, the sexual revoluion etc.etc.
So the question is, Which one is better ?? Losing our identity ??? Or change for the modernization of our society. Because that very discriminating nature sort of identifies us(sad to say).
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