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| Username | Post |
| tabasco | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 02:54 AM
. from nepalitimes.com Manjushree’s headache If this is what latthis can do, imagine what M-16s are doing SUNDAR SHRESTHA My friend Manjushree Thapa has a headache. A big one. She also has severe back pains. Both of these newly acquired ailments come courtesy of the government. My friend was participating in a peaceful democracy rally around Ratna Park on Sunday, when all of a sudden she found herself cornered by latthi-wielding riot police. With the rest of the defenseless crowd, she attempted to run away but was hit on the head by a policeman. Falling to the ground, blood pouring from the gash in her head, she was then subjected to further latthi blows to her body. She was helped by strangers to enter Bir Hospital, into which police were lobbing teargas shells over the wall. In hospital, she lay with scores of injured awaiting treatment. At the end of the ordeal, she had three stitches on her head and several welts and bruises on her back. Manjushree is another statistic in the lengthening list of those with head injuries, broken bones and rubber bullet wounds in Kathmandu’s post-2PM streetscape. The Ratna Park area in the heart of the capital is now known not just for annoying traffic diversions. Here, the inhabitants of Kathmandu have been shown the nature of the excesses of state violence that they had heard were happening in faraway hills. Particularly illuminating has been the state strategy of crowd control of unarmed people participating in peaceful democracy rallies, including aiming latthis straight at the skull of anyone within reach, throwing tear gas into hospital grounds, beating people, old and young, male and female, after they have already fallen to the ground, entering hospital premises to thrash the injured and using rubber bullets in ways that maximise injury. That these methods are not necessarily provoked by violence or even hints of potential violence was clear from the experience of many of us in the Ratna Park area this week. Trapped in a situation of inexcusable Maoist violence and excess, serious economic decline, political stalemate and a lack of democratically functioning arenas, rallies for democracy seem the most positive of options. Participants are not ideologically brainwashed zombies. The political elites’ public apologies and remorse may have brought thousands to the capital, but ill-will and distrust in political leaders remain. Yet the sheer numerical turnout and the palpable energy in the crowd testify to the thirst that exists for change, with the only current viable medium to demand for that change being political party-led rallies for democracy. The ability to congregate as The People, to voice similar concerns and demands, ask for more accountability and say in the government, work together for peace and prosperity in the country, this is the fodder of donor ‘good governance’ and ‘vibrant civil society’ visions that so canvas our national development agenda. But these public displays of people power have been seen as a national threat by the state and dealt with accordingly. In full view of international donors and the national elite, my friend was mercilessly beaten in the capital. That she is an internationally renowned writer and part of the national intelligentsia was irrelevant. Like so many of the injured and killed in the past couple of days, months and years of turmoil, she merged into the mass of the faceless and identity-less in those minutes of state sponsored violence. In accordance with government statements justifying the force used in these rallies, if she was not my friend, perhaps I would have believed she provoked the police. If I did not know her personally, perhaps I would have believed she was affiliated to a violence-prone political wing. If I was just reading about her as an injury statistic, perhaps I would have believed she was a Maoist infiltrator. But I know Manjushree Thapa well. If this is the level of violence happening in Kathmandu with only latthis, tear gas and rubber bullets, dare we think of what is going on in the name of the counter-insurgency war in areas populated by those whose identities and personalities remain blurred and in territories in which M16s and not latthis are the choice weapons of state control? 
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| tabasco | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 02:55 AM
. 
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| tabasco | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 03:02 AM
. the end of monarchy is near. |
| baadal | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 05:54 AM
wasn't this piece written by seira tamang and not "sundar shrestha"??? |
| rauniyar | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 06:10 AM
Hi all, sad to hear the 'in-between-the-lines' in the article. Nice way of putting the picture at perspective though. aa lathhi ra mar pitt nai aja ko satya ho bhane, sure enough, we are looming into the land of unknowns. The plight is even graver for me given the fact that I have read Manju Di with great respect. May peace prevail... Uhi Rajeev, CT, Amrika |
| GP | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 06:21 AM
Manjushree, I wish for your early recovery. I admire your strength and to show in pictures what had happened to you. SB Thapa, a cunning politician who became in the expectation that he can get benefit like he did in 2036 and using the same trick he did in 2036. SBT should know that its a 2 decade old trick that does not work now. You 'SBT' will be paying the cost of scars on Manjushree and others like her who were unarmed and just plain protestors. It gathers more hate on you and thugs around you. I wish for SBT's early travel hell. GP |
| MillionDollars | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 07:10 AM
Ali kati pugena kukurni harulai... ;-) |
| tabasco | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 07:42 AM
.apologize for mixing up with the names it was indeed SEIRA TAMANG. thanks baadal for pointing it out. i wish early recovery for manjushree too. :| |
| Deep | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 07:54 AM
I wish Ms. Manjushree Thapa will recover soon. But let me bring up a point here, how/what about all those Nepali comrades-in both camps (Maoists or security forces) or in neither- who are dying for either what they believe in or what they are ordered into? or worse yet, how about the sufferings of those who are targeted from both camps? How many of us are as concerned for them as we are when it comes to some well known personalities? Shouldn't we be fair to all our fellow citizens? Manjushree Thapa is no more important than those innocent school students who are kidnapped to be pawns or those who are gunned down just because they "smelled" like Maoists to some. Just my thought. |
| MillionDollars | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 08:01 AM
Exactly right.. I am sick of politically motivated and self centered articles like these. When will they see the big picture ??? |
| the devil | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 09:46 AM
You are right, deep. |
| the other one | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 10:53 AM
It is about Manjushree here, I am sure she is as concerened about all the nepalese dying, dead, going to die, and as any intelligent Nepali human, she IS concerned about Nepal one way or the other and that is how people should look with the unbderstanding that she knowingly put herself in the rally and decided that she could be a voice (and a louder one due to her popularity) by being a bloodied Victim in the eyes for everyone to see, thats the most she could do in the situation she is in. In a way this has made it possible for this situation where it is about all the victims and not just her, but it is because of her. |
| MillionDollars | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 11:23 AM
Arko danda GP, Madhav tatha aru chor haru ko tauko ma paros... hi hi hi |
| DP | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 11:50 AM
I am sad what happened to Manjushree.But that is the fawking big deal?Why is she so much politicized and given so much limelight?There are thousands of innocent women beaten next to death for so many reason all over the country.There are thousands of children with wounds all over their bodies.The don't have a way to see a doctor or get any treatment.Why do you not talk about them? At least, Manjushree is in Kathmandu and is getting the best treatment(and of course, over emphasized meadia attention) possible. Once again,I am not trying to underestimate what Manjushree went through. DP |
| MillionDollars | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 12:09 PM
Yeah. Manjushree lai danda galat thau ma parya jasto ta malai pani lagyo... hi hi hi |
| bihan | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 12:53 PM
Three points: A. I admire Manjushree's courage, but I would even further admire her if she is successful in pursuading her father to withdraw himself from this worthless, undemocratic, unrepresentative government of Surya Bahadur Thapa? Charity begins at home. B. I am glad that Seira Tamang wrote about Manjushree's headache. I would have further appreciate it if she writes about the heartaches of lakhs of women who are being forced to go to brothels in India due to suppression, illiteracy, and lack of employment opportunjties in their own country. Who would see the invisible scar left on lakhs of families through daily beatings and inactions of the government? C. I wish somebody would follow up and let us know what punishment the army leaders have got due to inhuman brutal killings that took place recently in Doramba. Are some heads going to roll at the army, and also at the Home Ministry? |
| wish_list | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 12:56 PM
i agree with deep on this one.... its not just about manjushree.. there r many being killed everyday.... who really cares about those innocent , not-so-popular nepalis???? |
| acharya | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 01:01 PM
Who is Manjushree's father? |
| Biswo | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 01:18 PM
Deep: There are some reasons why Manjushree needs some special attention: i) She is internationally known (the extent may be debated) writer. ii) She is Sajhaite. We love sajhaites more, don't we? iii) Whatever, it is unlikely that she chanted "---: murdaabaad"to the government. iv) It is unlikely that she was more than peaceful. v) Her wounds were proof that she was hit on the head and mercilessly at her bodies, which I guess shouldn't have been the case. But as a whole, you are right, each case should be given special attention. It is just that we can't do that. There are so many victims. |
| Deep | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 02:05 PM
Biswosir, Jadau. Heri, chhyassa yati kura lekhna man lagi halyo hazurko sewama [(Ka) She is internationally known (the extent may be debated) writer. ] Kina ra? internationally known writer lai lagne chot hamri locally known suntali lai lagne chot bhanda beglai khalko hunchha ra? ustai nepali ragat ho jasko bage pani bhanne mero tarka ho. I am sure there were so many locally known protestors, who were vocally or otherwise protesting the cause-which warranted their protests- among Ms. Thapa. By just focusing on Manjushree, are we doing justice to many others, jasle Ms. Thapa sang sangai danak khepnu paryo, or injustice? Frankly, I found the above article a parochial one (like a "prose-ode to Manjushree Thapa"). [(Kha) She is Sajhaite. We love sajhaites more, don't we? ] kurai chhaina ni, sir. Sajhabadi jindabad. I love sajhabadi. Tara yaha prastut lekh sajhaki Manjushree Thapa ko matra nabhayera unka saha-pradarshankaari ko barema pani bhayeko thahar gari maile mero sochai sajha samakshya rakheko hu prabho! bhul-chuk line dine. [(Ga) Whatever, it is unlikely that she chanted "---: murdaabaad"to the government. ] gam ma bhanthe anikalma biu jogaunu, hul-danga ma jyan! afu ta tyo pradarshankari ku hul ma thiyina---tara Manjushree didile murdabad murdabad bhaninan hola jasto chai bhitri-man ma lageko chha. kassam. [(Gha) It is unlikely that she was more than peaceful. ] Khai...tara ma benefit of doubt dina tayar chhu. telephone ko booth, bato chheu ka baar, roki rakheka yaatayatka saadhanharu ma jatha bhabi laat handai hinin hola jasto pakkai lagdaina malai pani. [(Na) Her wounds were proof that she was hit on the head and mercilessly at her bodies, which I guess shouldn't have been the case. ] ma mandachhu. Yo kurama bhane ma hanuman, Biswo sir Ram la. dharo dharma. [But as a whole, you are right, each case should be given special attention. It is just that we can't do that. There are so many victims. "] Chot lai nam sanga jodera herna bhe na---yatti bhandai afno dui sabda yahi tungyau chhu. Jai shambho! |
| Jay | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 02:35 PM
We don't know what Manjushree's political affiliation. Just because she was injured doesn't mean she is doing jindabaad, murdabaad. Also it is wrong to assume since her father is a cabinet minister, she shares his political belief. She has carved out her own unique personality in Nepal and shouldn't be identified as Bhek Bahadur Thapa's daughter. Insteresting to know would be what bearings this incident would have in his father's mind? Is he feeling sick the government of which he is part of is even capable of hurting his own? Interesting things to observe....in confusing time! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 02:54 PM
well, Manjushree or Sarawswati, they have to understand one thing: the governmnt banned the protests, decraled certain areas to be no protests zone and it would ahve been lot more wiser for her to avoid those places to show her political affiliation or whatever.. however she didn't.. she chose to mess up.. and she got messed up. this is it. just ebcaus eshe is a writer doens't mean she is someone who is exempt from the laws... or does it? thaha chaina.. |
| baadal | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 03:21 PM
i think the whole point of seira tamang's article (as i see it) is missed here -- that the government is treating its citizens with no respect. she puts a face to the many victims of the civil war in nepal, she personalizes it, and brings it home to those who live in the city and often dismiss the violence as something that happens out west. she could have written something more complex -- but i wonder if she wrote it in such simple, accessible, personal way to make a point... |
| meera | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 04:03 PM
Here is my opinion: Ok Manjushree is an internationally renowned women (or is she?) Anway, what's the big deal of only her beatings being brought to the limelilght? Why did she protest in the FIRST place knowingly full well that there are 1000000001 protest in the streets of NEpal EVERYDAY and has even ONE of them brought any fuiltful results????? I have yet to read of one. The most that comes out of these protest is that you get beaten by the police or the army. So knowing that, why protest in the first place????????? Secondly there are 1000000001 people dying or beaten everyday, so why onlyManjuShree's name brought to the forefront?????? Well, I am a fan of ManjuShree's writing but I still think that she sould NOT have protested in the first place and hope in the future nobody will do that same mistake again (wistful thinking on my part). There must be other ways too to protest without getting down to the street. Because of those darned protest my school used to be more closed than open so I sympathize nobody that takes to the streets and gets beaten in the process. Sorry, if I hurt anyone by saying that. |
| nepali_angel | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 04:15 PM
Well, I support the government and all, but wasn't it possible for them to have taken care of the situation in a more civil manner? The whole police system in Nepal is topsy turvy. I think Nepal needs to learn from Amreeka, where most of the problems are solved with as little brute force as possible. Plus, she's a renowned figured....I think that in the end this incident will have serious repercussions--kind of like a positive feedback loop. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 04:26 PM
Deepji, aba yo akshar akshar analyze garera tarsaaunu bhaena. bholi tapaailaai america ko pulis le laathi haanyo bhane 'amerikaa maa hajjaaraulaai pulis le laathi haanchha dinmaa. ' bhanera haamile chup laagnu bhaena ni. So, she was a writer in Nepali Times, and her friend felt bad about her thrashing, so she wrote in protest. Perfectly natural. In sajha too. Meera, >Manjushree is an internationally >renowned women (or is she?) Depends on how you define and who you ask. If I ask you about some very famous current figure in Chemistry, you probably don't know. [I am assuming you of being non chemistry background]. However, it is clear to me that there are people in her field who regard her as a good writer from Nepal, in India and beyond. However, there is no doubt that she will have to work more to get more publicity. |
| Yadav | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 04:26 PM
OKAY, I do not know her personally, but here is what I have to say: The only reason she got highlighted is because she is NOT just another citizen of the country. Period. Seriously, how hard is it for you guys to accept this ? I mean, we're talking heights of jealousy here. If you don't like the above article, just ignore it. Noone is forcing you to read it. Manjushree wasn't trying to be famous by participating in the protesting. Her highlight in the media just proves that there is something about her that isn't there in thousands others who get arrested or beaten up. Understand? |
| qallu | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 04:41 PM
test |
| qallu | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 04:42 PM
MillionDollars, You need to wash you mouth out with soap. Your lack of sympathy aside, cheap innuendos is sickening. . . Yes, Manjushree might not be any more special than a student or any other woman who gets beat up, but she did get beat up, so, first and foremost, just be sympathetic! It was horrendous. Obviously, she is one of many who the police attacked, but she was hurt and she was hurt when she was just protesting ...supposedly peacefully (which I trust is right). So that's that! And yes, it's not just about her, but about the fact that she was a protestor like many others who got hurt... her being renowned is besides the point...except that her name has currency and name recognition and thus can draw attention to what also happens to many others. And I thought that Seira Tamang's article was too much about "my friend Manjushree. The internationally known artiste." I am embarrassed for Manjushree that her "friend, Seira" would say such a thing like "That she is an internationally renowned writer and part of the national intelligentsia was irrelevant." Of course it is irrelevant. I guess people often forget that they are just as relevant or irrelevant as anyone else and are shocked to discover that when it comes to lathi charges you are just meat to bruise and bones to crack. And a comment about the use of the term "members of the intelligentsia." I have seen it used frequently here and elsewhere as though it were a badge of honor. I say, what a term to choose to affiliate oneself with!? Ugh! The pomposity! On the other hand, I guess people are just ignant about the cold war reference and the negative connotation. And is Seira Tamang really so naïve and myopic that she would write such statements as the following: "If this is the level of violence happening in Kathmandu with only latthis, tear gas and rubber bullets, dare we think of what is going on in the name of the counter-insurgency war in areas populated by those whose identities and personalities remain blurred and in territories in which M16s and not latthis are the choice weapons of state control?" I guess most people in Kathmandu have been not really "dared" to think the reality of life for the average person outside of the valley. Getting one of your own beat does bring it home. No? But how does Siera, and others who decry the excesses of the state, propose the state deal with the insurgency? Lathis and guns have a place in the war(and yes, it IS a war). Not on peaceful protestors, but on insurgents who perpetrate violence and terrorize citizens. I do, however, agree with her that deciphering who is an insurgent and who is just a kidnapped kid made to carry and shoot a gun makes the use of force by the state very very iffy. But let's not mistakenly think that the Maoists are going to bow down without a show of force from the state. |
| dyamn | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 05:16 PM
merrrrruuuuuuuuuuuu, atti guffadi k "...the FIRST place knowingly full well that there are 1000000001 protest in the streets of NEpal EVERYDAY..." >>>>>>nepal ko population nai 20 million around cha.. kaha bata 1 billion 1 people street ma hunu.. atti na deu n k meeru.. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 05:19 PM
It is truly unfortunate that Manjushree has been hurt. But, taking into account the numerous incidence of violent actions taken by the police and the army, it is not surprising. However, it is certainly ironical to observe that the police seem to be more effective (are they?) in injuring unarmed Nepalese citizens than restraining armed maoists. The Nepalese citizens are between a rock and a hard place... with nowhere to go except to the streets! I hope for a speedy recovery for all those injured in the peace protest. The article is just what it is, an attention grabber. Seira Tamang IS a journalist; the eerie coincidence of Manjushree's participation in the peace rally and the injuries she incurred while doing so, is too much to ignore. There is certainly a great difference in reporting an unknown, versus shocking the readership with a personalized account of a known face, accompanied by gruesome details; it's meant to hit home to a certain populace; the international and national populace that knows Manjushree. There is a vested interest here; a hope that her predicament will cause a bigger hue and cry, perhaps? The incidence certainly has the potentials of attracting international coverage with a different angle. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 07:50 PM
Mr. Yadav, #If you don't like the above article, just ignore it. Noone is forcing you to read it. Manjushree wasn't trying to be famous by participating in the protesting. # what the hell is the article poster here then for?" Why should we not post our comments when the article is thrown at us here in a public platform? What do you mean by "If you don't like the above article, just ignore it. " How would I know whether I like the article without reading it? and what does "forcing" mean? Any article posted for public is open to discussion unless, perhaps in certain situation, specifically prohibited to do so. Now regarding Manjushree being a victim of police atrocities: May be she was. The country is in chaos. Almost all political forces have gone crazy in defending their egos. In the tug of war between naraynhiti and singhdurbar common people are suffering. But out of all the sufferings , where the word suffering covers a wide spectrum from death/rape and mutilation to simple inconvenience, we are drawn to what happened to Manjushree Thapa. Unwarranted excessive use of force is not something to glorify but I also don't think the article is fair to many others who have suffered more than Manjushree. However, if we accept Biswoji's position (in his reply to Deep above ) #So, she was a writer in Nepali Times, and her friend felt bad about her thrashing, so she wrote in protest. Perfectly natural. In sajha too. # then the bhajan-article is fine here. Good night/day. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 15-Apr-04 08:30 PM
Sparshaji, I am appalled to read that you consider it a 'bhajan article'. If you are arrested tomorrow like a lot other aliens in USA, your friends will be the first one trying to write positive about you: in local press, in sajha, everywhere. It is perfectly natural. Bhajan is done of powerful, and in expectation of something. This article is not a bhajan. As for the indiscreminate thrashing of protestors by Gyanendra and his gang, I think Dostoevsky's view will be relevant here: "Whoever has experienced the power, the complete ability to humiliate another human being....with the most extreme humiliation, willy-nilly loses power over his own sensations. Tyranny is a habit, it has a capacity for development, it develops finally into a disease.. The human being and the citizen within the tyrant die forever; return to humanity, to repentance, to regenration becomes almost impossible." - Dostoevsky |
| MillionDollars | Posted
on 16-Apr-04 05:40 AM
QalluDude, Manjushree lai ta galat thau ma danda paryo paryo... I will make sure that it fall on the right spot for you... Happy now ?... hi hi hi... |
| Gokul | Posted
on 16-Apr-04 05:47 AM
(1) Is Majushree superior to others who were also injured there? No, definitely not. As human beings, we all are equal. (2) Did Manjushree seek any preferential treatment because of her status? No,definitely not. She received injuries just like others. (3) Is Manjushree a courageous lady? Yes, definitely yes. Courage is not simply about taking a difficult path. It is taking a difficult path when there are many easy paths available. It is the sacrifice of comfort and conformity that is more important. As human beings, we all have the tendency to follow the path of least resistance. Manjushree followed her conscience and chose the difficult path. She is not only against the regression, but also against her father. Many of us willy-nilly follow our parents' ideology even though we may not have conviction in those ideology. Manjushree made a SACRIFICE. She boldly took a perspective that was against her status and background. In this sense, she is more courageous than other leaders there. For those leaders, there is no choice. It is their profession, they have to be involved. (4) Is it fair for media to highlight Manjushree's injuries? Yes, definitely yes. First of all, Manjushree writes for Nepali Times. Why can't her colleague write about her friend's injury? Second, her recognition as a writer and activist certainly makes her more salient if not more important. News is about saliency. Let me give you an example. There are many people in the US who are caught for DUI but why we hear about Bush's daughters only? Finally, I wish Manjushree and others a speedy recovery. I hope Manjushree will be a symbol of how a courageous Nepali woman forfeited her privilege and social ties to follow the voice of her conscience. Manjushree - you are the hope of Nepal's future. |
| Dr. Strangelove | Posted
on 16-Apr-04 06:00 AM
Wishing Manjushree a quick recovery! She is the first Nepali author to be published by Penguin Books...The Tutor Of History! So, one could say she of some renown. She's a prolific writer as well as a gifted photographer. She attended Rhode Island School of Design as well as U of Washington on a Fullbright Scholarship. It is interesting to see the dichotomy of the political manifestation within the Thapa clan. Dad is the foreign minister and the daughter is a agitator against "regression". Hey, that's the beauty of democracy, right? |
| Gokul | Posted
on 16-Apr-04 06:13 AM
Is it not an irony that those who disliked the attention that Manjushree's involvement received decide to remain silent regarding the national coverage of Manisha Koirala's personal opinion about the current movement? |
| Garibjanata | Posted
on 16-Apr-04 07:14 AM
Shameless repression of anti-regression activists http://www.kantipuronline.com/kolnews.php?&nid=10500 By Yadav Khanal - Police repression of the fiveparty anti-regression activists has assumed an outrageous proportion. The leaders of the political parties have been subjected to savage treatment. Party leaders such as Nepali Congress leaders, Girija Prasad Koirala, Dr Ram Sharan Mahat, Ram Chandra Poudel and Sushil Koirala as well as leaders of the Communist parties like Bamdev Gautam, Amik Sherchan, and Lilamani Pokharel, among others, are severely beaten by the heartless cops. Photos showing scenes of these leaders being manhandled at the street demonstrations repulse one. All the more revealing are the police excesses of virtually dumping away the arrested lot, including top party leaders, at the most unhygienic and unsafe sites. This shows the brutal character of the authorities dealing with the anti-regression forces, working with all their might and main at the behest of the incompetent men in the incumbent Government. Worse yet, the police have resorted to the forced entry into the private homes to arrest those suspected of participating in the anti-regression movement. This is an open violation of the fundamental rights of the citizen. Meanwhile, Prime Minister Surya Bahadur Thapa is saying that some of the leaders in the agitation were asking the police personnel “to open fire at one or two protesters so that the agitation would go violent”. This is a blatant lie intended to spread dissatisfaction among the rank of the agitation activists against their own leaders. Nothing can be more mischievous than making such a baseless claim. The police do not show even a minimum of decency towards the women participating in the anti-regression agitation. Media photos show how the police force manhandle these womenfolk while arresting them. Among the women activists suffering torture at the hands of the police is the renowned litterateur, Manjushree Thapa of “ The Tutor of The History” fame. Her brutalisation by the merciless riot police has stunned the whole nation. This one incident alone proves that this Government, formed without the people’s mandate ,is capable of using all barbaric means in its attempt to destroy a human order to its last vestiges. Manjushree Thapa, the luminous star in the literary firmament, is something more, something greater than an ordinary Nepalese national. As a world class writer, she has made our society feel proud of her. It’s, therefore, shameful for us all, who cherish arts and letters, that they have still to bear with the government which, apart from its not being anyway accountable to the people, as is just suggested, has failed to achieve anything appreciable or worthwhile. Born with a silverspoon in her mouth as the daughter of a distinguished public figure, the eminent Economist Dr. Bhekh Bahadur Thapa, and granddaughter of an Army Colonel, Manjushree Thapa, again, is a highly enlightened person in her own right. The way she fought for the restitution of a free, human order in our society distinguishes her from the common lot of our people. An impressive writer, she is also imbued with the high sense of the importance of democratic norms and values. And it was because of these high merits of mind and outlook of hers that she has joined the army of the five-party anti-regression forces. By this one performance alone this noble daughter of this country has earned the warm affection and full-throated admiration of those amidst us who place freedom and liberation above everything else in life. Finally, one should wish her speedy recovery of health. And the freedom-fighter Manjushree Thapa deserves the salutation from all who cherish the ideals of democracy as the inalienable attributes of a truly civilized society. |
| Obie Trice | Posted
on 16-Apr-04 08:09 AM
Can somebody answer me why did she go into the restricted area? That is the consequence of violating the law. In any democracy we must obey the law that is enforced by security personnel. Rallying for democracy doesn't mean that they should violate any laws. - Obie |
| MillionDollars | Posted
on 16-Apr-04 08:13 AM
Excatly right... Lucky she got danda in only her head. She might as well have gotten them in places she would have less desired. ;-) |
| ashu | Posted
on 16-Apr-04 08:56 AM
I also wish "my friend" Manju a speedy recovery. I really don't care whether Manju is a famous writer or a part of the intelligentsia in Kathmandu. I agree with Qallu that such references are beside the point. The point is: No self-respecting Nepali -- even those vehemently opposing the government -- deserves to get beaten up like that. That's a no-no. ****** I also thank Manju, a fiction writer, for taking writer Khagendra Sangraula to task -- via a letter to editor in Kantipur -- for his inserting FICTITIOUS quotes (involving herself) in his non-fiction Kantipur column. [In other countries, notably the US, newspaper columnists have lost their jobs for using made-up quotes involving real people. Someone needed to tell Khagendra Dai that you just don't make up quotes involving real people in newspaper columns REGARDLESS of what your point is.] oohi ashu |
| Shiva Gautam | Posted
on 16-Apr-04 09:19 AM
Ashu ji Good point. But things happens sometimes without concsious efforts. I assumed the same when you pulished Kul Gautam's anuthorized article in Sajha a copule of days ago. Kathmandu Post also did that, and now I am told they ran an apology on the 14th and 15th April, 2004 issues. I wanted to write you about it- but did not have your e-mail (got lost). Thanks Shiva |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 16-Apr-04 12:19 PM
>>The whole police system in Nepal is topsy turvy. I think Nepal needs to learn from Amreeka, where most of the problems are solved with as little brute force as possible. How easy to say!! What is there in Nepal NOT to learn from the US? |
| Nepe | Posted
on 16-Apr-04 12:47 PM
Talent is mostly nature's random gift. So it is no big deal. Courage is. Because it is your own. Manjushree has become a symbol of courage and conscience of Nepali youth. I salute her. ---------------------- Ashu, You call Manju ji "my friend". Personal friendship aside, at ideological level, aren't you no friend to Manju ji who has joined the crowd who is increasingly becoming pro-republican ? Aren't you still on the other side ridiculing pro-republicans and dismissing them like you used to do not long ago ? Sorry for this abrupt remark. But I really wanted to hear your views, particularly if they have changed during last 6/7 months. |
| ashu | Posted
on 17-Apr-04 09:27 AM
Nepe wrote: "Ashu: You call Manju ji "my friend". Personal friendship aside, at ideological level, aren't you no friend to Manju ji who has joined the crowd who is increasingly becoming pro-republican?" ******** Nepe, look, there is NO way I -- living in Kathmandu and working one block away from the streets where all these demonstrations take place -- am going to fall for your words of emotional manipulation, thrown from thousands of miles away. I mean, what do you really know about me, my particular circumstances or even the extent of my friendship with Manjushree to GRANDLY and self-righteously declare from afar that I am "no friend to Manju" . . . just because I have NOT joined the "crowd who is increasingly becoming pro-republican"? Your assumptions about me, like the one about my voice, are FALSE. I wonder: In science graduate school, didn't they teach you about NOT building up theories based on provably false assumptions? And so, yes, sorry to disappoint you, Nepe, but I am NOT going to go on a guilt trip, as it were, for NOT having suffered/endured my share of beatings and "pee.tai" in the Andolan . . . so that guys like you living away from Nepal can do your paternalistic cyber-clappings and perhaps hold me up as your so-called "model democrat". I say that because I do what I do in Nepal because I want to (and what I want to do here are based on my particular interests and constraints) -- and NOT because I have to go an extra mile to please someone like you or because I am desperate for your good words in public. I am not. [I dare say that unlike some other people on Sajha, no Nepali politician has held me up on his lap, and said, "yesh.lay kehi garla jasto cha." As such, totally FREE from living up to other people's high expectations, I can be my own person, at my own pace in Nepal, without any need to live life according to what other people want from me!!] nd that's a great freedom I have.] And so, just as one can admire Mahatma Gandhi WITHOUT drinking goat's milk everyday and wearing Khadi ko langauti to work, one can also admire Manjushree for her remarkable courage even WHEN one chooses -- for a variety of personal, logistical and job-related reasons -- NOT to be rubbing shoulders with Gagan Thapa and others out there on the street. As Manju herself can perhaps tell you, she certainly does not choose or judge or categorize her friends on the basis of how much "pee.tai" they receive from the police in the course of this Andolan. Moreover, I certainly have NO desire "to authenticate" my democratic and my anti-republican credentials by going mano-a-mano with the police force on the streets. I certainly can respect -- and have respected -- others' doing so. But I perfer to remain true to what what I am and what I can do, and NOT follow the crowd. If you have a problem with this approach, well, tough luck!! After all, earning a "sya-bash" from you for my political involevment -- or earning rebuke from you for not politically getting involved -- does NOT figure in on my priority list at the moment. *********** Nepe wrote: Aren't you still on the other side ridiculing pro-republicans and dismissing them like you used to do not long ago ? *** Look, you may call yourself a scientist working at NIH, but you consistently display a shocking lack of a scientific temperament, at least on Sajha. I say that because JUST AS vigorous debates, sharp conversations and only-ideas-matter type of discussions push and prod science to make further progress and refine its fundamental concepts, my "sharp" questions TOO were meant -- at the time -- to probe into understanding and challenging the very basis of your republican beliefs. Was one NOT allowed to do that? At the least, you cannot deny that largely due to my questions -- asked in a no-holds-barred Sajha spirit -- that challenged your assumptions and beliefs to the extent that you ended up posting a LONGER thesis on republicanism, spelling out your reasons -- something appreciated by many. Tell me, in the absence of my questions then, what did you have? A mutual admiration society of republians, doing wah-wah to one another and hopelessly lacking in clarity but qick to accuse anyone else of being monarchists just because they chose not to agree with your select group of republicans!! Was that ANY WAY to take the discussons forward? Now, you can STILL choose to smart over the sharpness of my questions. But I'd see some evidence of a scientific temperament in you if you learnt to see my questions -- NOT as an ASSUMED manifestation of my own ideology -- but as a genuine effort on my part to give weight to the conversation on republicanism. If you could that, then, something could be said about your being a scientist who brings the usual scientific appreciation of doubts, ambiguities and uncertainties into understanding people and social problems. If not, then, I am sorry to say, you are just another pipette-and-titration hack whose reactive emotions flash faster than the reflective brain. oohi " back from travels here and there" ashu ktm,nepal |
| confused | Posted
on 17-Apr-04 10:48 AM
And so, yes, sorry to disappoint you, Nepe, but I am NOT going to go on a guilt trip, as it were, for NOT having suffered/endured my share of beatings and "pee.tai" in the Andolan . . . so that guys like you living away from Nepal can do your paternalistic cyber-clappings and perhaps hold me up as your so-called "model democrat". Ashu, I really don’t write on forum like this because I don’t believe I have a level of understanding like you all do, but when you said “guys like you living away from Nepal” what do you really mean?? If you seem to be so proud of being back in Nepal why haven’t you done anything out there, I believe you haven’t even traveled to ruler districts of Nepal and calculated how people actually live out there. Their life is harsh than anything you can imagine. Just writing in papers and living in a MAHAL doesn’t give you write to say how government in Nepal should be worked out. I suggest if you are really proud to be back in Nepal go to places like rukum, rolpa, and evaluate the situations out there, than you can say what you have said it above, “guys like you living away from Nepal can do you paternalistic cyber-clapping and perhaps hole me as your so called “model democrat”. And for me, why am I not back in Nepal? As you suggested by your own tongue I am not a MAHATMA GANDHI EITHER :) |
| hyaterica | Posted
on 17-Apr-04 11:01 AM
confused...you really shouldn't write on a forum like this. Grow up first, and then revisit this forum. |
| confused | Posted
on 17-Apr-04 11:12 AM
ok try to hyaterika :P sorry if i said something wrong out here :) |
| hyaterica | Posted
on 17-Apr-04 11:20 AM
using ':)' in the posts should be banned ...je bhande pani hune....as long as you put ':)' at the end... eh ? damn ! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 17-Apr-04 12:12 PM
hmm So ashu dai is not manjushree's comrade-in-arms? :-( |
| niksnpl | Posted
on 17-Apr-04 12:21 PM
that completes the half century............. |
| HarvestMoon | Posted
on 17-Apr-04 12:29 PM
I see that no other person's "headache" being highlighted by the media as the headache of Manjushree! The police who hit her obviously did not know she was Manjushree. But, whateverhers or any other person's intellectual level/political preference, they are getting badly beaten when doing peacful demonstration. That is clearly unacceptable. If manjushree had not had a "headache"... I guess there won't have been such heated discussion in sajha, which is good. Venting emotions and demonstrating mental might! Another thing... one does not have to be in nepal to do something for Nepal. Millions there have not been able to do much. Directly/indireclty those abroad can also contribute to the bettement of Nepal... ! So stop pointing at each other...! Do something... scientists, artists, writers, business planners... the "intelligentsia" of whatever kind... and whereever you are! HM |
| ashu | Posted
on 17-Apr-04 06:16 PM
Confused wrote: "I believe you haven’t even traveled to ruler districts of Nepal and calculated how people actually live out there." All I can say is: What you believe is happily FALSE and FALSE and FALSE. My point is simple: Just as I would NOT dare assume things about you from afar in public, you should NOT also assume things about me or anyone else in public. Why? People -- you, me and anyone else -- are much more complicated than what meets the eye, and, therefore, often do NOT fall tidily into the boxes of our preconceived notions. And that's life. Get on with it. BTW, just so you know for a fact: I have indeed travelled to 47 zillas across Nepal as of April 2004, and have worked for more than 6 months in three of those districts, excluding Kathmandu. Now, I'll leave it up you to decide for yourself whether or not I know a thing or two about "how people actually live out there [in the hinterland.]" My larger point? Mother Teresa was NOT born in a slum. But through her work, she understood what it was like to live in slums. Likewise, on a much smaller scale and for the purpose of this analogy, one can say that one does NOT have to be born in a village to understand what it's like to live in a village in Nepal. At the end of the day, it's the work that counts, NOT birth certificates. **** My point about "those living away from Nepal" is this. They can certainly support or oppose the Andolan by living away. I have NO problem with that. But if they PUBLICLY start telling specific PRIVATE individuals in Nepal what they should do for or against the Andolan, and then go on to publicly judge/characterize those private individuals for their contributions or lack thereof on the basis of a set of assumptions, then, I must say that these people EITHER expect too much from those living and working in Nepal OR are merely setting themselves up for another round of disappointment. And that's too bad. **** Finally, on a HAPPIER note, Manju is getting better and better (i.e. able to travel around KTM now), and I wish her all the best as she starts her new work. oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| nispaksha | Posted
on 17-Apr-04 09:36 PM
Kathmandu's self-proclaimed elites are good in making evasive public comments, which give them luxury of claiming high moral and intellectual ground despite their inherent attitude to appease the power-center. However, such mundane tactic simply does not stand up to the scrutiny as demanded by defining moments such as the currently on-going anti-regression movement. I have rather some respect for self-declared MANDALEs for their guts, though I find their argument amusing (they give an impression that they are about to make a breakthrough in putting a grand theory of MANDALE or Neo-Mandale in place). We need more Nepes to throw spotlights on these pseudo-elite . Nispaksha ----------------- |
| confused | Posted
on 17-Apr-04 09:43 PM
Ok then Ashuji I was wrong then. Just want to say Thank you for clearing me out, for now. |
| Nepe | Posted
on 18-Apr-04 02:30 PM
Ashu, I had asked a simple question- whether your views and assessment about republican movement in Nepal that you had shared several months ago has changed now ? And what I see here ? A lengthy self-defense and an attempt to discredit my innocent (all right, not so innocent) question and me. As on occasions of our debates in the past, I want to repeat that I am not interested in 'you are so/ I am so' type of discussion. So I am not going to respond to every single thing you said about me. In any case, I claim, defend and am proud of only one thing about myself. That's my clarity and frankness. For everything else, I am not sure and I don't have any claim. I may be incompetent and all that, but I was, I am and I will always be clear and frank about what I think. Look, I even admitted my question was not so innocent ! Yes, it was not so innocent. However, it was not meant for 'emotional manipulation' of yours. Neither I am capable of manipulating you, nor are you manipulable. It was meant to be a free advertisement to the cause of republicanism in this hit thread I assumed some strategically important people from Nepal might be visiting. It was not a personal vendetta against you. I was just doing 'small small things' that I could to help the movement for republicanism in Nepal from thousands of miles away ! This was the not-so-innocent intention of my question. The really innocent intention of my question was to learn if what's going on in Kathmandu has changed your earlier views. I sense from the sense of insecurity you felt to answer it that they have not. Let me (a self-styled republican cyber fighter) and my fellow pro-republican fighters who are letting their head be broken on the street and campuses of Nepal for the cause they believe or came to realize eventually hope that you will join us in your own time and convenience - to be a part of what Nispaksha ji rightly described as 'a defining moment' of our future. To give some perspective to my question to new visitors, here is the link and some excerpt from the conversation between Ashu and me that had happened in last July. - http://www.sajha.com/archives/openthread.cfm?threadid=11327&dsn=sajhaarchive2003 "Are you dismissing that there is an unprecedented surge of public debate and tilting towards the Republic of Nepal going on in Nepal these days ?" "YES, I do dismiss your claim, and that is, without being a chamcha of any kind of the King. My evidence? I could go on, but for now, do read Alok Bohara's article, in which he says: "In five questions related to the royal role on various issues, King Gyanendra has between 45-60 percent favorable opinion....." " "Ashu Tiwari ji, the history will remember your dismissal ! Now, let's visit Bohora ji's article where I should find the undeniable evidence that supports your dismissal. I will not even argue how much scientifically reliable internet polls are. I will not even raise the question how the way a question is drafted and/or who asks the question and/or how the person perceives the consequences or lack thereof etc may influence one's answers. Don't you worry about that, Ashu. Now, tell me which number represents the support to the monarchy or the opposition to the republicanism ? I will take your word for it. "In five questions related to the royal role on various issues, King Gyanendra has between 45-60 percent favorable opinion. For example, 70 percent don't blame the king for the current state of the country, while nearly half the voters blame Girija Prasad Koirala. On the issue of national welfare 20 percent show ambivalence, but the king scores about OK, 60 percent. Now, that makes, somewhere between 0-40 percent in favor of the republicanism. Right ? |
| Nepe | Posted
on 18-Apr-04 02:30 PM
Now, you give me the number. How much do you think might support republicanism today ? I do not want to shock you with my biased assertion. So, 15 percent ? Does that sound reasonable ? Or that's too much ? OK, 10 percent. Now, this time be honest. What percent do you think was in favor of the republicanism, let's say last year or two years ago or 10 years ago ? Whatever number you give, you can not deny that there has been an unprecedented rise in the favor to the republicanism. Or do you still want to dismiss it ? " Now, let's go to a scientifically conducted poll Bohora ji mentioned, a poll done by Himal KkabarPatrika in 22-25 Chait, 2059. The question that was the closest to the question of monarchy was 'Prajatantra laai khataraa ko baata chha ?' Let's look at the result: The King and the palace force: 52 % The Maoists: 49.9% Present government: 44.9% I wonder what was the number for the political parties. In any case, if you take the result at its face value, then, Nepali people don't trust anybody, the establishment or the rebel, for the democracy. If the poll accurately represents the reality, I would interpret it as that they are looking for a new force or a new equation which is 100% for the democracy. The above data is quite favorable to the cause of the republicanism and I can use it for the publicity as such. But I would like to do the opposite, if you like. I would like to show the readers the scientific limitation of so called scientifically done polls. There are chances of error/bias in all stages of a poll, drafting of the questionnaire, sampling of the respondents, analyzing the data and the interpretation. Sampling, data collection and analysis is no big deal. Anybody with a small training in statistics can do that. The most challenging, complicated and often less discussed part is the drafting of the questionnaire. This is the most vulnerable to the introduction of bias and inaccuracies. A clear idea about what you are investigating and sufficient knowledge of the culture, psychology and the situational factors are critical. I think many Sajhaites who work in similar field can explain this better than me. I will just illustrate my point with the above example. First the question. The danger to the democracy. It is not a simple question. It is a complex question, almost abstract. People will understand this questions differently and their answers will be different accordingly. When they answer about the king they may be talking about the sovereign power, when they talk about the Maoists, they may be talking about the freedom, when they talk about the NC and UML, they may be talking about the good/bad governance. This will be clear if you ask them a second question, 'HOW ?'. Anyway, I hope this improvised Paandittyaain of mine will make my readers aware of the limitation of the numbers obtained from even the polls labeled as scientific, let alone an internet poll. The situation of republicanism or anything of a grave and revolutionary nature is probably difficult to determine by poll in Nepal. People are not accustomed to share potentially dangerous views with unknown person. If you really want to find out, probably you need to conduct smart research like psychologists do. I don't think a question like 'Hey, I am not going to tell your name to anybody, now tell me do you support the king' will be able to gauze the difficult process of transformation in thoughts of Nepali people happening. What you see on the surface is a fraction of what is beneath the surface. The republican voices that has surfaced in recent time is indicative of where our society is heading to. Evidence ? Let's keep watching the developments for now. |
| GurL_Interrupted | Posted
on 18-Apr-04 04:05 PM
"confused...you really shouldn't write on a forum like this. Grow up first, and then revisit this forum." Hyaterica, He made some valid points eventhoug he is very young! I was proud reading his comments than having a negative feeling! U should be encouraging the younger generation to stand up for what they believe in and not be afraid of voicing their opinions rather than discouraging them! What's in age? |
| An Indun Poet | Posted
on 22-Apr-04 08:41 AM
Practice what you preach. For some "democracy" advocates, the present movement does not seem to be anything in Nepal. It won't be anything untill it hits your own home.... 
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