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| Mahotsab | Posted
on 27-Apr-04 07:38 PM
http://www.ngofederation.org/html/timeforcstp.htm (PLEASE CLICK HERE) *Civil Society Response to the Attack Against CVICT And Protect Human Rights Movement in Nepal April 19, 2004 Go Home 1. The Coalition of National NGOs, NGO Federation of Nepal** and Alliance for Human Rights and Social Justice (HR Alliance Nepal)***, are seriously concerned by the current malafide criticisms directed towards the Centre for Victims of Torture, Nepal (CVICT) and its President Dr. Bhogendra Sharma by one media house. 2. In particular, we are alarmed by the disparaging remarks made by some ‘Human Rights Activists' that are terminated on various charges from that organization. 3. We have appreciated that CVICT has tirelessly been very creatively and innovatively providing services to victims of Human Rights Violations and Abuses. The styles of the allegations are at an unacceptable level, intending to disrupt the movement against torture and human rights violations. 4. All NGOs have their independence and their function is determined according to the rules set by the Nepali legal system. Any differences in opinion or disagreement on facts should be taken up in a civilized manner and in a proper way. 5. We would like to propose that the human rights communities enter into a constructive dialogue with various sectors of civil society in order to make progress in the mutual commitment to combat torture and other forms of ill- treatment and work for peace, our common mission. 6. We believe that the malicious criticisms against CVICT will not hinder the solidarity of Non-Governmental Organizations and the movement for human rights, social justice and peace in Nepal. Name Designation Organization 1. Bishwo Ram Khadka General Secretary Maiti Nepal 2 Devika Timilsina Chairperson NFN, Kathmandu Branch 3. Dr. Arjun Karki Chairperson NGO Federation Nepal* 4. Dr. Gopal K. Siwakoti Exucative Director INHURED-Him Rights 5. Dr. Renu Rajbhandari Chairperson WOREC 6. Gauri Pradhan Chairperson HR Alliance-Nepal** 7. Ganga Kasajoo Vice Chairperson Alliance-Nepal 8. Jyoti Paudel Coordinator WOREC 9. Laxmi P. Sharma Chairperson PEWES Nepal 10. Kundan Aryal Executive Director INSEC 11. Raghunath Adhikari Chair person CGP-Nepal 12. Raj Narayan Nepali Treasurer Hamro Abhiyan 13. Samir Nepal Secretary Alliance-Nepal 14. Sharmila Karki Chairperson Jagaran Nepal 15. Shobha Gautam Chairperson IHRICON 16. Shanti Adhikari ChairPerson CWISH 17. Yogendra Pant Chairperson DCRDC ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *This statement is agreed and signed by people present at the meeting following explanation given by Dr. Bhogendra Sharma. Relevant documents were presented to refute allegations made against him and CVICT on 19th of April 2004 in Kathmandu. **NGO Federation is the largest and the only organization of NGOs in Nepal with the membership of more than 2,000 from all over the country. ***Alliance for Human Rights and Social Justice (HR Alliance Nepal) is the largest and most representative organization of Human Rights groups has branches in 73 districts out of 75 districts of Nepal with 391 accredited members. http://www.ngofederation.org/html/timeforcstp.htm |
| M.P. | Posted
on 27-Apr-04 08:59 PM
If the allegations are all fake, dhuwaa kahaa baata aayo? "Dr." Bhogendra Sharma maa lagaaiyekaa aarop-haru ko khandan khoi? Bhawadiye, M.P. Secretary - Clean-Alliance Nepal * -------- * some bhare-bhure kaile-naam-nasunyaa NGO |
| ashu | Posted
on 28-Apr-04 05:30 AM
Sadly, my LIMITED experience is that in Nepal and among Nepali societies, hurling "aa.rope" and "pra.tya.rope" is a boringly common, if titilating, game. Happens all the time. To almost everyone. I mean, if you don't like somebody, you can always make up stories about that person and let those stories loose among believers who are eager to lap up anything . . . and I mean, any kind of dirt. The rule is: The more visible the person, the stinkier has to be the manufactured dirt!! I have seen -- on Sajha and elsewhere -- "smoke" against people easily manufactured by detractors even when there is really NO "fire" of any kind. So, yes, that old Nepali proverb is in a serious need of revision. Often, the truth is complex, murky and even not what the "aa.rope" claim to be. Still, all the "aa.rope" and "pra.tya.rope" do make entertaining reading and become fodder for people who believe NOT in verifiable evidence but in gossip and rumors. ******* Finally, with all the heavyweights of Nepali NGO-dom stacked against him like this, I wonder what Dinesh Prasai (who first hurled charges against Dr. Sharma and CVICT and who enjoys support on the Net not because his charges were/are legally sound per se but because he had lots of friends in cyberspace) next move is going to be. [By pointing this thing out, I am by no means supporting Dr. Sharma.] As I wrote on Sajha a few weeks ago (when this story first appeared), it's only a matter of time before Dr. Sharma gets back to running CVICT in a business as usual manner. In Nepal, my sad but realistic conclusion is this: People hate corruption, but can't stop loving corrupt people, especially when they are their own relatives, friends, village-folks, colleagues and acquaintances. oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| Biswo | Posted
on 28-Apr-04 10:35 AM
Frankly, I don't understand what Ashu's point is. May be for some reason, he is too abstract these days, it is difficult to understand what his position is in some jaldaabaldaa issues.Not that it is important for me to know, but as a regular reader of his postings, it pains me to see how a man of clarity degenerated into a man of too fuzzy and shapeless ideas. The primary reason why Mr Prasai went against Mr Sharma should be moot. I read in Kantipur the detail of Dr Sharma's properties and several actions. Then there was this half-hearted explanation from Dr Sharma's side. However, this lets-gang-up-against-the-accuser mentality of NGOs, as evidenced by the communique above, takes matter to the farthest side: that these NGOs are acting as a cartel. I mean, how do other NGOs know CVICT so much that they could vouchsafe for the integrity and transparency of its head? It is just an emotional defense.Where are the answers of the questions raised in the Kathmandu Post? I am not assuming Dr Sharma to be corrupt or anything. On the contrary, I appreciate some of the things CVICT has done. But if he has energy and enthusiasm to drum up support by marshalling his friends and other NGOs like this, he surely has some extra time pondering over accusations and replying them. |
| ashu | Posted
on 28-Apr-04 11:30 AM
Biswo, I admit that I am overworked. But am I 'degenerating into a man of too fuzzy and shapeless ideas?' My God!! Well, maybe it's because I do NOT like to theorise about the IDEAL Nepal when I find the REAL Nepal a lot more complex, contradictory and even confusingly fascinating, and, as such, try to interpret things I see here as they are as opposed to what they should be. Just a thought. ***** Without taking Dr. Sharma's side, one can say: a) Newspaper accusations in Nepal do NOT mean anything. b) Since Kantipur's bosses have, for the record, ABUSED their paper to write against their business rivals in the past (much to the shame of good journalists who work there), it has become easy for anyone now -- rightly or wrongly -- to question Kantipur's motive whenever it publishes damaging news about anyone. c) These NGO Federation folks could care less about the public at large. They are basically getting together under the elastic rubric of "Civil Society" to convey the SAME collective message to their donors, and their message is: "CVICT is right, Kantipur is wrong, just take our [card-carrying members of the civil society's] word for this assertion." Evidence, be damned! Mind you, whether you like it or not, the names you see up there are the heavyweights of Nepali NGO-dom. They control budgets of millions of dollars, and these people will go to any length to protect one of their own, especially if the accused shares their political ideology as well. In Nepal, shared political ideologies cover a lot of sins. d) In Nepal, where all these NGO people know one another quite well, attend the same conferences, write the same papers, and milk the same set of donors, the concept of peer-policing does NOT really exist. For argument's sake: Even if CVICT is indeed wrong, nobody -- for reasons morally unfathomable or pragmatically fathomable to me -- dares say that out aloud and risk ostracization. [Somebody like Gopal Siwakoti 'Chintan' is a remarkable exception to all this, and that is why he gets beaten up or ignored or dismissed for being a troublemaker at NGO Federation meetings!] And so, my prediction: Propped up by his powerful NGO friends, Dr. Shama will go back to running CVICT as usual. This matter will be forgotten in a few weeks. Sadly. In all this, I don't know what to say about acivist Dinesh Prasai's utter school boy-like naivete. I mean, if you want to catch an elephant, you don't fight with it head to head, and expect to wrestle it to the ground. What do is you think strategicaly and you you lay a trap, and then you wait and wait, and let the elephant fall into the trap. Sadly, now, in this case, the elepant is out and angry and is determied to discredit Prasai with all it might. Good luck. oohi "hopefully not degenerating" ashu ktm,nepal |
| Biswo | Posted
on 28-Apr-04 03:15 PM
Ashu, I appreciate your last posting. I mean, let's face it, the last thing one wants to read in your posting is yo-pani-galat, tyo-pani-galat, yasaile-sabai-galat kind of no-finger-pointing:-) >c) These NGO Federation folks >could care less about the public at >large. They are basically getting >together under the elastic rubric of >"Civil Society" to convey the SAME >collective message to their donors, >and their message is: "CVICT is right, >Kantipur is wrong, just take our [card-carrying > members of the civil society's] word >for this assertion." Evidence, be damned! I think this is the crux of the matter. Blaming Kantipur in this case was probably wrong. Yes, Kantipur was used to hound alot of people, including the head of CIAA, for no reason or for obvious reason.But, I think it is important to note that readers too have some descriminating power. In this case, the accusations hurled were in pretty much detail. The investments, the new houses, the new properties, the change in the fortune of Dr Sharma, the case about how same proposals were sold everywhere, I mean, it doesn't really look like Kantipur was waging a vendetta against Dr Sharma. I don't know Mr Prasai. But I don't care about him either. It is just like the following case: I think Kamal Thapa is a corrupt man himself, but if he sends another corrupt Khum Bahadur to jail, I have no problem. As long as the culprit is nabbed, we don't care who apprehended him, do we? Should we? |
| ashu | Posted
on 29-Apr-04 12:41 AM
Thank you, Biswo. It feels nice to be called one thing one moment, and then appreciated the next moment. Then again, you might say, I am used to such treatment to the point where the amusement remains all mine. :-) oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| sh_durga | Posted
on 29-Apr-04 02:02 AM
Biswo, Thanx, I like the way you present. This man, called Ashu, has a big mouth self declared intellectual and knowledgeable. Durga |
| ashu | Posted
on 29-Apr-04 02:30 AM
Thank you for your compliments, sh_durga. Appreciate them very much. :-) oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| paramendra | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 03:02 PM
How come I missed this one! |
| ashu | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 07:09 PM
Well, this CVICT thing is largely forgotten in Nepal. Dr. Sharma, and his "civil society" friends are doing just fine. As aid agencies in Nepal get ready to pour a lot of money all the more into various conflict-mitigation work in Nepal, CVICT is poised to walk away with millions of additional rupees, if not dollars. oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| GP | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 07:25 PM
When I see Biswo writing "Ashu..... added with Ashu writing " Biswo........." then, it now lookes like "Ashu vs Biswo" war, only difference is different thread. If I am wrong I want to be proved otherwise. Anyway, its free Sajha.com (free after San pays the basic hosting charges plus his web maintenance time equivalent cost), you are free to write any thing. Well, I am not talking about the seminar in Japan, where a Japanese spends 5 minutes to ask a question where answer is surprising either "Yes" or "NO". I mean the floor discussions are usually spent on flattering friends and senior proffessors. I did not expect that kind of lousy discussions, but, on the extreme end, I also don't expect to see current Ashu-Biswo Saga in the name of discussions. GP |
| KaleKrishna | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 07:33 PM
bahi fute gawar lute tal ho yaar, afno afno creadibility khatam garne bharsak kosis gardaichan sathe haru. jiayo jiayo kk |
| karmapa | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 09:17 PM
Ashu, Dinesh Prasain today heads a NGO called Collective Campaign for Peace (COCAP). I do not think he is naive, he made a calculated move. Just like Sher Bdr Deuba, who broke away from Nepali Congress to field his own party to better his and his loyalists' prospects, I tend to think Dinesh merely broke away. Either he felt he was not cut out for work under Dr. Sharma, or or had learned enough to strike on his own or wanted to tap a little bit of that waterfall of aid now pouring into support programmes which fall under the rubric, 'peace' 'conflict management', 'environmental justice','human rights' and the like by forming his own NGO. I will not be surprised if new NGOs or splinter groups of NGOs come up in the next few years to work in the aforementioned areas...as the situation in Nepal deteriorates (let's hope not). There is no biz like showbiz. Similarly, there is no NGO like an NGO which works under the rubric 'peace, conflict management, environmental justice, human rights, HIV/AIDS' ( in Nepal today). NGO anybody? Karmapa |
| cardinal | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 09:31 PM
"Either he felt he was not cut out for work under Dr. Sharma, or or had learned enough to strike on his own or wanted to tap a little bit of that waterfall of aid now pouring into support programmes which fall under the rubric, 'peace' 'conflict management', 'environmental justice','human rights' and the like by forming his own NGO. " I am very saddened to see that people, instead of raising questions about why no investigations have been made following the accusations, and check to see if indeed Bhogendra sharma is a man to be trusted or not, simply seeks solace in blaming the accuser and relax in peace. Nothing against Dr. Bhogendra sharma, or Dinesh prasain, but I am dismayed by the lack of investigation thereof. Truly sad indeed. |
| ashu | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 11:49 PM
Karmapa, Your point makes sense to me. In Nepal, with some bits of experience, I have learnt to see that behind every seemingly irrational action (in the short run) may well be a rational plan for the long-term. ***** Cardinal, It's indeed sad. But let's face it: Bhogendra Sharma and people like him are simply too powerful, too well-connected and are supported by far too many other "credible NGOs" for anyone to do anything against them. That's a sad reality. *********** GP-ji, I expected a mathematical treatment from you. Let's say that two people are doing their whatever jhagada on Sajha. One simple way to understand that jhagda by constructing a simple "personal attack ratio" or PA ratio. PA ratio for Person A would be: Number of attacking adjectives hurled by Person A against Person B (call it Z) divided by Number of attacking adjectives hurled by Person B against Person A (call it Y) [Assumption: Only negative adjectives -- as per the judgement the ratio calculator -- are counted as attacks] This way, a higher ratio would mean: Person A has an edge over Person B in launching personal attacks. oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| GP | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 07:25 AM
I think in a civilized society, where if I understand clearly, is considered to be a jhagada if someone express his disagreements in little bit loud swor not to the level of shouting. Probably that jhagada is better characeterized by "COLD WAR" and here is a sample: " Frankly, I don't understand what Ashu's point is. May be for some reason, he is too abstract these days, it is difficult to understand what his position is in some jaldaabaldaa issues.Not that it is important for me to know, but as a regular reader of his postings, it pains me to see how a man of clarity degenerated into a man of too fuzzy and shapeless ideas. " |
| ashu | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 10:18 AM
GP-ji, The logic here apparently goes like this. "I don't understand what you are trying to say. It's not important for me to understandwhat you are trying to say. BUT [then comes the adjectival judgement part] you are a man of shapeless and fuzzy ideas." How is one supposed to respond to such idiotic remarks, except by humor? **** Notice: the question here is NOT: I don't understand you; could be you be more clear. The issue here is to RUSH to make judgements about others. And if someone else does the same to you with even as a REMOTE HINT, then you go berserk anyway. oohi ashu |
| Biswo | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 11:32 AM
wow. One idiot who always used slurs against others, famous for his slurs and derogative adjectives, telling others how to be civil? My god. Well, ashu, here is my answer to you: I remember how caustic your remarks used to be , even when unprovoked, long ago. In just another posting, though by saying it a general remark, you came with a list of epithets to describe others. |
| GP | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 12:11 PM
Nice to read another another series: "One idiot who always used slurs against others, famous for his slurs and derogative adjectives, telling others how to be civil?" Well, peoples say that if you want to know his true colors, wait and see until a crisis arives and there you can easily see his true colors. Oops, aba K garne? Chup chap ramita herne. GP |
| Biswo | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 12:19 PM
GPji, Yes. I thought I should will give you a chance to see who used these words in a now very active thread about Deuba before being provoked: arrogant as hell, inflexible, rigid, supercilious ,chest-thumping from-the-village-to-the-best-of-univeristies-so-we-know--the-real-Nepal insufferable types (mostly bahuns). I rest my case here. Will read everything as a spectator, now that you will be ready for action, and extreme views. |
| GP | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 12:27 PM
I think I should have asked Ashu to produce some sample names of those Bahuns? If Ashu was referring to Biswo, I am wondering whether Biswo represents (even if Biswo falls in those cateogory) Bahuns? In probability a single sample does not make any sense, you need a few sample. I think that Ashu had biased sample because he was surrounded by few Bahuns who came from v-to-best univ, I wonder whether Paschim was also included in that sample(heheheeh.... Paschim , where are you thou, don't get angry for including your name). Its difficult to answer than to ask questions.......... GP |
| GP | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 12:41 PM
One of the great thing I learned in last 20years is that: 1. Ivy league universities matters to average students. 2. Ivy league universities does not matter if the student is really best as far as learning is concerned because best students can learn irrespective of quality of university. 3. Ivy league does not matter if you want to work in self employed job marked. 4. Ivy league univ. matters when you want rise in ladder faster in public / corporations because these organizations are occupied by mafias. In Japan, Japanese try to avoid american univ. graduates saying that they don't have enough knowledge in subject matters and are said to be ghaphadi. My own former guru and boss who graduated from Ivy league univ, is still struggling to get recognized by fellow japanese. Now, I am watching how American employers are watching on my last degree and I am drilling here how Americans employers are fond of Ivy league univ. and are controlled by Ivy league univ. mafia, while seeing the quality of students and the subject knowledge is really not that different. But, its mafia where you belong thats what it matters. GP |
| GP | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 12:43 PM
Last posting was a comment on "chest-thumping from-the-village-to-the-best-of-univeristies": GP |
| paramendra | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 01:21 PM
(On the Ashu-Biswo imbroglio, before I turn to the subject matter at hand. I met Ashu in person in 1995/96 in Kathmandu, and have met him online ever since. He is an obviously intelligent person, socially engaged, articulate, and he holds promises. Biswo I have met only at Sajha. I share many political views with him. I met a friend of his in St. Louis this recent New Year celebrations who had bountiful good things to say about him, mostly to do with how really really smart he was and all that good stuff. So I believe we are talking about two particularly gifted people here. So the tension really boils down to table manners and some genuine differences in opinion. Marx would label it a necessary dialectic perhaps, and it would be really productive if it lost its tendency to go round and round in circles and moved beyond personal adjectives!) Now on to this CVICT stuff. I have so many questions to ask anyone who might know. Ashu and others. Appeal For Investigation Into The Beating Of Nepali Human Rights Activist Dinesh Raj Prasain By Royal Nepali Army Personnel - http://www.petitiononline.com/dip4/ - http://nepal.motime.com/ Ashu, you make it sound like the allegations of corruption against the various NGOs is on the dartboard, but that they collectively operate to protect each other, the honchos at the top. I am aware of the corruption in the NGOs from my time when I was doing some political work with Hridayesh Tripathy (mid 90s) when he was chairing the Lekha Samitee. The NGOs get their funds on behalf of the people who they serve or claim to serve. My impression is there are not enough laws in the books to make them accountable for their funds. It is a no man's land. I would not like to go specifically into this or that NGO, or this or that person, since I personally lack knowledge. But as general talk, I think it is obvious the highest standards of accountability are not in place. And the Nepali people have a right to hold these NGOs accountable. The dictum of rule of law would say (1) put in the books new laws that would ensure accountability and (2) apply those laws with consistency. Another option would be for the NGOs themselves to take initiative towards transparency. And that depends a lot on the group dynamics among the NGOs. I do not have much knowledge of that. So please throw light on the topic: (1) Are the NGOs following all the laws in the books so technically they can not be said to be doing anything illegal and wrong? (2) They might not be doing anything illegal, but they are doing plenty wrong. (3) If they have nothing to hide, why are they so scared of acting transparent? It is not like they are private companies or anything. (4) Did the parliament do anything during the 1990s to see if corruption exists, and if does, how it can be checked? (5) If the donors of these NGOs are from countries with higher legal standards on transparency, how come these donors do not smell foul play if there is some? What keeps them ignorant? (6) Or are there just occasional turf wars within the "NGO industry" in Kathmandu? (7) Is there blatant corruption? Or is it more like these people chairing these NGOs pay themselves western salaries which is okay to their western donors, but looks offensive to the onlookers in Kathmandu? (8) Despite all the unanswered questions on money, are these NGOs doing good work on the ground? |
| Neural | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 07:46 PM
PA ratio for Person A would be: Number of attacking adjectives hurled by Person A against Person B (call it Z) divided by Number of attacking adjectives hurled by Person B against Person A (call it Y) [Assumption: Only negative adjectives -- as per the judgement the ratio calculator -- are counted as attacks] This way, a higher ratio would mean: Person A has an edge over Person B in launching personal attacks. PA for A = (Z/Y) ------------- (1) PA for B = (Y/Z) ------------- (2) Wat u prefer to be, (1) or (2) ? |
| ashu | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 08:18 PM
Paramendra wrote: "Ashu, you make it sound like the allegations of corruption against the various NGOs is on the dartboard, but that they collectively operate to protect each other, the honchos at the top." Yes, that's pretty much it. Often, these top NGO honchos are also POLITICAL buddies, sharing same party-political ideologies, in which case it's unlikely that they would confront one another over irregularities. As I am fond of saying on Sajha: Shared party-political ideologies cover a lot of sins in Nepal. What's more, they may hail from same regions in Nepal: From Palpa or Dhankuta or wherever, in which case regional loyalty among themselves is also hard to surmount. With the exception of Gopal Siwakoti Chintan, I have seen that most NGO people in Nepal try to get along, not make enemies, not take rsky stands and keep on doing work supported by aid agencies. ****** Paramendra wrote: "The NGOs get their funds on behalf of the people who they serve or claim to serve. My impression is there are not enough laws in the books to make them accountable for their funds. It is a no man's land." That's quite true. NGOs can be corrupt, and a number of them undoubtedly are, but there is no accountability on anyone's part of any sort.That's the way it is. Seira Tamang, a researcher at Martin Chautari, has written more on this theme. ******* Paramendra wrote: (1) Are the NGOs following all the laws in the books so technically they can not be said to be doing anything illegal and wrong? There are quite a few excellent chartered accountants and auditors in Nepal. But most of their peers admit that their job is to "cover up" clients' financial irregularities. And that's what they do all the time. Indeed, the accounting professional in Nepal -- partly because of too many lower-end dubious players and a few bad apples at the top --does not enjoy much respect, though slowly that is changing. Still, you can have audited financial reports which look nice but are actually doctored, and that's the way things go around here. Obviously, forensic accounting has yet to arrive in Nepal. [Last year, even the IMF was pushing for better accounting standards at the Central Bank.] *** Paramendra wrote: "5) If the donors of these NGOs are from countries with higher legal standards on transparency, how come these donors do not smell foul play if there is some? What keeps them ignorant?" Donors operate under a compulsion to disburse money anyway. The way donor politics works is that -- all things being equal -- giving away money is valued more than getting solid results. [Recently, even the World Bank in DC admitted that 20 per cent of its billion-dollar ko aid went to finance corruption in various countries.] To my knowledgge, and I am willing to be corrected, no donor in Nepal has come out and black-listed any NGO for corruption. ***** In recent years, I have sensed that journalists' OVERALL treatment of NGOs has mellowed a lot. I attribute that partly to the fact that NGOs now have tons of money for conflict-related/peace building work, and they often hire journalists as consultants and report-writers and so on. As a result, journalist are leery of biting the hand that feeds them . . . and so goes the vicious circle. oohi ashu |
| karmapa | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 08:58 PM
Paramendra, Whether Companies, Governments, or NGOs, the truth is they all love transparency as much as the vampire loves daylight. Unless they are brought to book in some way (through civil society pressure, media exposure, legitimate accusations in the court of law) not much is going to happen. Transparency will only come at a snail's pace. Ashu's point regarding why it is so difficult to expose the 'rotten apples' (with his allusion to 'sociologies of the protagonists' in the past and reference to Dr. Sharma above) is quite valid given that kathmandu is a small place and word goes round. About why donors don't smell a foul play well I personally think they do and in some instances they may be in cahoots. The kind of social place Kathmandu is becoming where donors and NGO wallahs are seen to tango and salsa together (literally and figuratively) in 5 star hotels makes me think that the donors are putting themselves in a compromising situation. I wish they would stay a little detached and out of it all so they can discharge their duties objectively. Who pays the price of their salsaing and tangoing together? Of course, the Nepali people whose expected development doesn't materialise except on paper and the taxpayers of the donor countries who are footing the bill. Only if you analysed the symbiotic relationship enjoyed by donor reps and NGO wallahs some of the constraints in enforcing accountability and transparency would surely become as clear as daylight. But then again the vampire doesn't like daylight. It has always been my observation that when new donor reps are come to work in Nepal, they invariably gravitate toward the upper-crust of Katmandu, the I/NGO wallahs. They crave to become an insider in this famed Himalayan Shangrilla. Probably they have read too many books of Hodgson and the kind of close relationship he enjoyed with the Ranas or something and had inside knowledge. And this sets the situation that enables I/NGO wallahs (many of which are peopled by politically connected people) to exact their price. Karmapa |
| karmapa | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 09:07 PM
Whether Companies, Governments, or NGOs, the truth is they all love transparency as much as the vampire loves daylight. Unless they are brought to book in some way (through civil society pressure, media exposure, legitimate accusations in the court of law) not much is going to happen. Transparency will only come at a snail's pace. Ashu's point regarding why it is so difficult to expose the 'rotten apples' (with his allusion to 'sociologies of the protagonists' in the past and reference to Dr. Sharma above) is quite valid given that kathmandu is a small place and word goes round. About why donors don't smell a foul play well I personally think they do and in some instances they may be in cahoots. The kind of social place Kathmandu is becoming where donors and NGO wallahs are seen to tango and salsa together (literally and figuratively) in 5 star hotels makes me think that the donors are putting themselves in a compromising situation. I wish they would stay a little detached and out of it all so they can discharge their duties objectively. Who pays the price of their salsaing and tangoing together? Of course, the Nepali people whose expected development doesn't materialise except on paper and the taxpayers of the donor countries who are footing the bill. Only if you analysed the symbiotic relationship enjoyed by donor reps and NGO wallahs some of the constraints in enforcing accountability and transparency would surely become as clear as daylight. It has always been my observation that when new donor reps are come to work in Nepal, they invariably gravitate toward the upper-crust of Katmandu, the I/NGO wallahs. They crave to become an insider in this famed Himalayan Shangrilla. Probably they have read too many books of Hodgson and the kind of close relationship he enjoyed with the Ranas and lived to tell the tale. May be they want to recreate a little bit of that past glory. I know for a fact that Tibet and Tibetan cause has become a white man/woman's fetish, which shows that they do come with some prior idea of their own. And this creates a situation that enables I/NGO wallahs (many of whom politically connected) people) to exact their price...and get away with many of the things they get away with. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 09-Jun-04 03:13 PM
So the image that comes forth is: (1) The individuals who are the "donors" are not being accountable enough to THEIR taxpayers to really dig in to any "smoke" of irregularity. (2) The NGOs might be doing some good work, but their book keeping is obviously not transparent. And they do not feel the need to even pretend to act accountable to the Nepali public, as they should. Because, the bottom line is, it is the western taxpayers who are trying to benefit the Nepali public. The "donor" agency individuals and the NGO-wallas are mere intermediaries. And those intermediaries better measure up. Can one foresee an emerging alliance between the elected officials at both ends coming together to that end? Personally, I think Dinesh Prasain should run for office. What do you think? MP from Ramechhap perhaps. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 09-Jun-04 03:14 PM
Another question. If the "NGO industry" in Kathmandu is so "lucrative" to the "entrepreneurs" in the field, why don't more people get into it? Or is there a barrier to entry? I mean, is there an "oligopoly" of some kind? |
| karmapa | Posted
on 09-Jun-04 09:13 PM
Pramendra, it is more complicated than that... 1) It would still be interesting to see how accountable donors are to their taxpayers. Well there are two sides to the coin - the donor side and the development side. I do not think we have even begun to scratch the surface of the donor side - it is still terra incognita. Frankly, what motivation would the development side have in questioning the donor side (and give them unnecessary headache) as long as the money keeps coming their way. This is something the taxpayers of the donor countries should take up...not the development wallahs...but how they will they do so is another question. I am sure the donor country taxpayers have their reps sitting on the boards of many of these donor agencies...but these are not elected reps, but most probably politically appointed reps. 2) Bookkeeping is transparent, but the main question is does it reflect the ground reality. The consultant from the donor side comes to do project and programme appraisal, evaluation, and so on. But before they even see the daylight after coming out of the Int'l Airport, he is whisked off to a five-star hotel (where he will be staying), and given the most amazing treatment. This poor guy has not seen this kind of respect in his life in his country (where respect has to be earned)...he is taken on a field trip where the aama samuha (may be also pancha kanyas) put garland around him, sing and dance for him, make him feel like God himself...of course the speeches the beneficiaries will make are all written up in advance (with input from the development wallahs). Well, if they say 'this development programme' has really helped them and point to one or two water tap or new roof on a school and that aid should not be stopped, the poor consultant bugger who finds himself a God in this dirtpoor village is going to now feel morally responsible (even personally responsible) for them. You get my drift? If the donor country taxpayers must know the general truth it is this: of the money flowing into the development sector, my back of the envelop calculation shows that roughly 42% of it goes to pay salary of personnel, 18-20% goes to pay overhead, 10% on travel, 15-20% on khaire consultants, I do not know how many percent on equipment. Now you tell me how much actually goes for real development work on the ground. Well Mr. Shankar Sharma, Vice Chairman of the Nepal Planning Commission himself has admitted, that in some cases as much as 80% of the aid [esp in mammoth projects] actually ends up going back as they are 'tied up': must buy technologies and equipment from the donor countries, must hire their expensive consultants, so and so forth; if there are budget overruns, the govt has to pay the donors. Which explains why Nepal's electricity is the most expensive in the world. No wonder some wag has coined the term, 'boomerang aid'. 3) You talked about the emerging alliance. I wouldn't go this far. I am just making this comment by extrapolating liberally from my observations and hunches. Educated guess is more like it. Well you may see some kind of alliance between govern- ments of Western countries (eg US and England) who can afford to ignore their constituencies (esp England) and still go to war on Iraq. Oligopoly of governments which acts against the will of their peoples?...well this is really an intersting hypothesis. The tendency is certainly there as the nation state becomes to big for the small problems of life (minority rights and adivashi issues) and too small for the big problems of life (climate change). Well, quite frankly the same could be happening between donors and development wallahs (I don't know) ..this would make for a good study. Well you could look into the sociologies of their relationship. Like I said when the two two tango on the marble floor of a plush five star hotel, they get tangled up, as do their interests, and the line begins to blur. Enuff said. Karmapa |
| paramendra | Posted
on 13-Jun-04 12:32 PM
Thanks for the observations, Karmapa. |
| Pushkar Samarthak | Posted
on 13-Jun-04 04:03 PM
NGOs suck. They don't want to support world biking |
| paramendra | Posted
on 18-Jun-04 05:53 PM
Dinesh Prasain has asked me to post this: From: "cocap_coordinator" To: "Paramendra Kumar Bhagat" Subject: Re: cvict talk at sajha Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:49:14 -0700 Paramendra, Here's my reply. thanks for drawing my attention to this forum. Dinesh I am surprised that this topic re-emerged at least somewhere. As Ashu says, the business is as usual, again, in the NGO world. But not quite! From what I know and what I guess. Some things are better, other gone worse. These investigative pieces generated a lot of discussion here in Nepal. That I know for sure. There is NO DONOR AGENCY in Nepal that has not read the series. It was photocopied and circulated by the staff within donor organizations. It was discussed by political leaders, agitating students, many many NGO wallahs, intellectuals in Kathmandu and outside in the district headquarters, etc. I know, the problems that sustain NGO corruption in Nepal are structural, so one article or two will not bring about immediate and meaningful impact. As Ashu said, people trying to raise issues of NGO corruption will have hard time, the problems are so deep, the mafidom so strong, people generally are fatalistic, afraid, and so on (I talked about this in the Mangsir 28 article in Nepal Samcharpatra). Please tell me about any issue you worked on, are working on, in which you succeeded at one go, where you had no problems, that you were so strategic that you could change the world. The reason there will be problems is not enough reason to stop doing what you can. I believe on the issue, therefore I did my part. I faced serious problems, am still receiving threats that they will destroy me.. But that's part of the job. Its not I was alone. There are many who provided information. Some had their names quoted, others not. It was really after I thought the issue was over that Ktm Post and Kantipur took it up. Its no longer my issue. Five credible journalists researched and verified evidence from Kathmandu to Dhankuta to Sankhuwasabha. Bhogendra and CVICT were give the opportunity to clarify through letters to editor and quotes in the original articles. They desperately tried to blame I was fired on grounds of corruption therefore I planted the story with malicious intent. I replied challenging that I will do kaan samatera uthbas, if an independent investigative body could publicly announce the findings showing my involvement in ANY AMOUNT of corruption. CVICT did not respond to that letter, and instead spent a lot of money advertising in major newspapers that the Kantipur story was false (I wonder which donor / tax payers paid for that!). My position has always been this: There are many in the NGO field that are very transparent, democratic, accountable to the people. Especially those outside the valley. For instance, Danphe Yuva Club in Jajarkot, Sugava Club in Ilam, PCDF in Bardia, SWEET in Kanchanpur, NASPEC in Udaypur, CLRC in Jhapa, HURPES (Krishna Pahadi's organization) in Kathmandu.. I could go on. Why should they be blamed by the very generic, armchair analysts and intellectuals, who are so good at lazily saying, "all NGOs are bad and corrupt". Like the analysts who say all leaders are bad. Its time more nuanced analysis, based on hard data and good theory, start to inform this debate. About the people who issued the statement, its very much like dudh ko sachhi boralo. Typical. The Kathmandu Post mentioned the CVICT stories were part of the "NGO Series". I know first hand, that caused a lot of consternation here among the NGO wallas. 22 NGO leaders were part of a delegation that went to Kantipur publications to object to the story. They even tried to convince their followers in Nepalgunj and a few other towns to boycott Kantipur altogether. Except for Maiti Nepal, all the people who signed the statement are aligned to the same political party. They are all members of the network, Alliance Nepal. At least 80 percent of those signing the statement feared that their organizations might be investigated, because so many staff have left over so many years over issues of internal democracy and transparency within these organizations. It is interesting that many cleaner NGOs, allied with Alliance Nepal did not sign. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 18-Jun-04 05:53 PM
I am convinced this issue will take off meaningfully, if some of us act. Like any issue. The success or failure - nobody knows, like on many issues we work on. Well about myself and COCAP, I would like to invite people to visit COCAP office anytime, meet with our 200 plus volunteers. Or visit our website - www.cocap.org.np , assess the level of our transparency. And then comment. Provide suggestions, etc. For everybody's information, the entire Board at COCAP is completely voluntary. As its President, I am also contributing my time as a volunteer. There are four paid staff, all hired through advertisements, and selected by an independent committee of experts. Among the four staff, the head of the professional wing is a Dalit. Two are women - one from ethnic group. The other is a Terai Janajati from the Chowdhari ethnicity. We have received core funding from a German organization called Misreor for two years. It about 50 lakh Nepali rupees. The original contract, you can see scanned in our website, including the detailed budget breakdown. the latest monthly financial update (5-page detailed) you can see there as well. Our bidhaan categorically mentions that anybody (Nepali / non-Nepali) has to be provided access to all the financial documents including individual bills and receipts anytime they wish to. ITS YOUR RIGHT! So please come and check them anytime you wish to. Yes, we work on conflict issues, and human rights issues. Who is not working on this issue in Nepal now? But we take up "projects" that are entirely funded by NEPALI VOLUNTEERS. For instance, the Human rights monitoring of the andolan. 200 volunteers were involved. They paid for their own tea, transport, etc. They have indeed contributed over 10,000 rupees in addition. We hold occasional discussion series on conflict and human rights. NO FUNDING WHATSOEVER. We are co-organizers of a nationwide discussion on negotiating political settlement and participatory approaches to constitution drafting. COCAP, myself and our volunteers will not take even a single rupee for these events. As volunteers, we enjoy taking up contemporary issues that we think are worthwhile. Some one participating in the discussion said, I have started my own NGO. Well, not entirely true. I joined COCAP, a network of about 30 organizations (NGOs, as the ad hoc coordinator six months after it was formed. I have been a volunteer with it. I was elected the President fro three years last year (I call myself Coordinator, as the term President sounds too big). We worked a bidhaan, which does not allow the President to stand in the election after one term. So its not MY PERSONAL NGO. We regard it as a public institution, like Nepal Bar Association, Federation of Nepalese Journalists. There is some sort of attempt to marry theory with practice here. in small ways. Within the last three few months ago, three senior journalists have visited COCAP trying to investigate whether COCAP just opposes corruption but is itself involved in corruption. Well, they all talked with us for three hours, went through our program and financial files, website, talked to staff, volunteers, board members. All the three, and about a dozen of their journalist friends are now COCAP Volunteers! Dinesh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paramendra Kumar Bhagat" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 3:13 PM Subject: cvict talk at sajha > http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/openthread.cfm?forum=2&threadID=15247 > > ===== > http://www.geocities.com/paramendra > > > > |
| ashu | Posted
on 18-Jun-04 06:39 PM
Dinesh, Enjoyed your take on the issue. I am particularly amused by the fact that: "CVICT [responded to curruption charges by spending] a lot of money advertising in major newspapers that the Kantipur story was false." True. ********* "About the people who issued the statement[in support of CVIC], its very much like dudh ko sachhi boralo." "[The reports against CVICT] caused a lot of consternation here among the NGO wallas. 22 NGO leaders were part of a delegation that went to Kantipur publications to object to the story. They even tried to convince their followers in Nepalgunj and a few other towns to boycott Kantipur altogether. Except for Maiti Nepal, all the people who signed the statement are aligned to the same political party." Interesting. The above seems to lend credence to my theory that a SHARED political ideology covers a lot of sins in Nepal [as it does on Sajha]. As a matter of doing a follow-up, Kantipur should have made the delegation's visit a front-page story, by publishing the names of the NGOs. ***** And now the ultimate irony is: With all this media attention, CVICT recently put put big-money ads saying that it's looking to hire a Media Advisor!! [Aside: Since former journalists with tons of friends in the Nepali media world tend to serve NGOs and INGOs as media advisors (aka spin doctors), CVICT, by hiring a Media Advisor, appears to be trying to pre-empt the future openings of its cans of worms.] **** Good luck, Dinesh. oohi ashu |