| Username |
Post |
| Biswo |
Posted
on 11-May-04 12:23 PM
1. The Party At Samrajya Shamsher's Palace On The Occasion of King Tribhuwan's Birthday
..The liquor began to flow, and the dancing began. I noticed that things were a little too risque. There had to be some decorum at a party the king was attending, and I was also present, plus the king was there with his relations. I didn't like it. It seemed that there was a young woman the king liked, and he used to meet her there. She was, in fact, kept there for the king. In deed, Samrajya Shamshere had arranged for a female companion for everyone gathered there. The king's companion was a little flirtatious. I remember her well because I had talked about her with Nepal Rajyalaxmi, who took that girl in when the king died....
There were cubicles in Samrajya's darbar, and before long the men paired with the girls and disappered into the darkness. I didn't know how to dance, and I was not going to engage in such inappropriate behaviour. I sensed that the wives of the two princes were also feeling uncomfortable. Their husbands were dancing on the floor with some others, and they too would occasionally go to the dance floor. I was sitting with the two of them on a sofa, and I asked them,"Why did you agree to come to such a place?"...
2. Talk With Jawahar Lal Nehru
Once Jawarlalji told me in Delhi, "This king, your king, comes to Calcutta, goes to Bombay, mingles with women and low-grade businessmen and Sindhis. This is not fitting behavior. You must advise the king on this."
I said, "DO you think the king will go by what I say? He is your friend, why don't you tell him?"
He said, "How can I say something like that to a head of state? But if an opportunity presents itself, i will certainly tell him."
"This is not good for the king."That is what Jawaharlalji said.
Then , CPN Sinha, the Indian ambassador said, "Why not you make sure that there are pretty women within the palace? "...
In around that time, Biju Patnaik (Former chief minister of Odissa-writer) came to Nepal. I had had a good relationship with him for a long time. He, too, gave me some advice, "I got the sense that you too do a bit of womanising."
3. Aftermath
..It turned out that Jawaharlalji did write a letter, a long one, to King Tribhuwan. The letter was a page and half on foolscap-sized paper which was colored slightly green. The ambassador delivered the communication, and upon reading it the king became red with rage. CPN Sinha, who had obviously read a copy of the letter told the king that it had resulted from my tattling to Jawaharlalji a few days earlier. The king told me this.
The letter was nicely written, but the bombshell was towards the end: "I have to touch upon a sensitive matter, but take the liberty as a friend who can do so. You are not only the king of your country, you are also the leader of a revolution, and everyone's eyes are on you. It is not only your citizens, the whole world is watching you. You should not come to these large cities of India so often, and perhaps it would be advisable to maintain some self-control."...
[From BP's Atmabrittanta. Pages 153,154,155)
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| MillionDollars |
Posted
on 11-May-04 12:36 PM
So this is the genetic input for animals like Paras and Dhirendra.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 11-May-04 03:20 PM
millionDollars:
When one reads history books, he will find that the gene of impropriety , as you referred, didn't originated from Tribhuwan. Surendra, Rajendra, and , most of all, Rana Bahadur Shah had quite a wild life. Mahendra himself had a son out of wedlock, although I think he married the younger daughter of Hari Shamsher, Ratna, after his wife died, because he loved Ratna very much.
Love of royals is so inscrutable. I was reading about the party, and I was thinking about how the two daughter-in-laws of Tribhuwan were thinking when they were at the wild party.
Finally, I just want to quote a old proverb:
darbaar ra tarbaar ko saamu kahilyai naparnu
The reason was probably they were too dangerous even when they love you.
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| nsshrestha |
Posted
on 11-May-04 03:32 PM
Biswo,
Love to read few more pages.
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| dyamn |
Posted
on 11-May-04 04:52 PM
.. haha oh wow, i didn' tknow that our old kings knew how to party back in those days too ... dats cool... they knew how to chill, eh?? poor BP bajay got frustrated cuz he couldn't get it up ?. lol....
ok ok.. sorry, i'm being bad.. i take it back.. don't attack me BP bajay supporters :).. jus playin' wid you a lil bit k hai....
take care.
dyamn
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 11-May-04 08:28 PM
nsji:
Well, I am surprised to infer from your request that you haven't read the book yet. I had read the Nepali version long ago, probably as soon as it was published in 1998, and some days ago, I got the English version too to read.
The book has some confusions. It seems it is published verbatim. At least, some fact checking should have been done. For example, Toran Shamsher is referred to as first IGP, but I think he was IGP for only one or two days, and formally Nara Shamsher is considered the first IGP. Also, Dev Shamsher's son is mentioned as governor of both Bhojpur and Dhankuta after the revolution. I think it is, in most likelihood, Dhankuta. These are some things I remember while writing this comment, but I think there are some more factual confusions that I noted while reading the book cursorily.
May be I will write some more in future, specially when context allows me and when the book is handy.
dyamn:
I am glad that you are enjoying to read what they were enjoying.
TMA:
Obviously, Purana Samjhana, Pheri Esto Kahile Nahos, Nepal ko Mahabharat, Nepalko Eitihasik Ruprekha, Ganesh Man's memoir etc are worth to read. They mention the wayward behavior of a lot of our royals.
Looking behind, I think Ram Kumar Pandey's Nepal Parichaya was probably chosen because it is the least scathing of the royals. A lot of times, any history book you pick up written by a decent historian, it should have something that shows how recklessly we were ruled by the Shahs in their 200+ years rule.
Sometimes I wonder whether our Shah rulers have ever thought of what the legacy of their dynasty would be, how nastily the history will remember them hundreds years down the road in the future. I would put them just above Thakuri dyansty, in terms of historical achievement. They are definitely worse that Kirati, Licchavi, Malla dynasties. But then again, it may only be me who is always worrying about my legacy, Shahs don't care whatsoever about their place in the history!
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| Badmash |
Posted
on 11-May-04 08:44 PM
Biswa jyu, you said, "Shahs don't care whatsoever about their place in the history!"
Oh really? How do you know? Are you a mind reader?
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| ashu |
Posted
on 11-May-04 09:22 PM
I have always wondered why, in that autobiography, BP was coy about his own
habit of womanising.
The one line we have is this: "He, too, gave me some advice,
"I got the sense that you too do a bit of womanising."
[In recent times, some of J L Nehru's supposed extra-marital shenanigans have come
to light. Why not the same for BP too?]
In the book, BP does mention his wife's not liking his sleeping with other women, but does not jot down the details. I mean, for a diary titled "atma-britanta", it's curious
that it does not talk about what really went on in BP's "atma" when he was being unfaithful to his wife.
Sure, BP -- like the rest of us -- was a human being with his own set of weaknesses.
But a study of history should not be taken as an indulgence in hagiography (for which our Shah kings are notorious), and that's why WITHOUT disrespecting BP, one can say that an "atma-britanta" that glosses over one's weaknesses and plays up only the strengths is nothing more than an exercise in self-delusion.
Then again, as the mantra mindlessly goes among the converted (and they tend to be ideologically vocal): "BP was ma-haan; whatever he did was also ma-haan; and if he did sleep around, then that just proves his ma-haan-ness, not to mention his capacity to engage in some soul-searching introspection."
*****
In general, as a reader, I tend to be skeptical of any political AUTObiography:
The protagonist always has the advantage of painting his/her side of the story in
a glowing light. And one learns to treat political autobiographies as they really are:
Possibly enjoyable ONE and ONLY ONE version of any multi-version, complex story.
Unless a first-rate academic historian takes up BP as the subject of a full-length biography, I regret that the real BP will continue to remain a mysterious figure in
many, many ways . . . at least to me.
oohi
"did read 11 different biographies of Churchill over a period of 5 years to understand the complexity that Winston Churchill was"
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 11-May-04 10:47 PM
Ashu,
I think it was not BP's diary. Atmabrittant was recorded on tape. I think Jail Journal was his diary.
I am not BP's biggest fan politically. But I consider him one of the greatest Nepali writers ever. Also, as I already said, there are some inconsistencies in the Atmabrittant too.
People don't write their memoir in Nepal. I liked Ganesh Man's Mero Kathaakaa Paanaaharu very much though. Last year, I had also read Nara Shamsher's diary. None of these give me a clue about how 'womaniser' BP was.In fact, Nara Shamsher, who later even became Mahendra's ADC, considers BP one of the truly greatest persons of Nepal. Then, there was this vehemently anti-BP guy who told me BP was in deed a womaniser, and that the proof was he took someone else-not Shushila- as his companion in his China trip. I later checked and figured out it was not true. Shushil was with him.
So, I am not sure if he were womaniser. I have never seen anyone come up with that claim. I am wondering if you could point me to that source.
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| cardinal |
Posted
on 12-May-04 01:42 AM
Hey Biswo. How come every posting you make these days seems to be against monarchy. That too not in just general passing comments, but a full article on how they are bad and how wretched their deeds are. Ok so they have their dark sides. They were royals who had full autonomy for many years. But the thing is who would not do that given the circumstances they were/are in? Do you think only kings ought to be saints? And the most important thing is, whatever they did in their lives, especially personal lives does not really matter. What matters is did they play the role as a king well? Or something like that. Who is to judge anyway?
And before criticizing so heavily try thinking about what else could have happened. How could it have been better. Would it have been any better if Girija had become the president of Nepal? Would the Koiralas and their children have shown full restraint and not thrown these parties and stuff?
Anyway, my point is be critical but with restraint. Constant complaining is likened to 'whining' and is not taken seriously. Nothing personal hai. Just an observation.
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| rauniyar |
Posted
on 12-May-04 04:38 AM
Mama,
here is a link that would talk more about kings and Queens in Nepal. The person in this article might have some fotos that would have been of interest to you. But he is dead.*smile*
http://www.nepalnews.com/ntimes/issue195/history_2.htm
Ani, talking about who is good and who is bad; I guess, there are couple of universal stuff that makes people corrupt. One is Money, and the other is power. Money is rather a low-dose intoxication in comparision to power. "Power" is one stuff that is perhaps more addictive that any drugs you might have come across in your life. I shall write some more on this as I get some time...
Ani Raja pani is another human being hai na ra. Meaning, He ain't the Vishnu crap that our Grandpa/Grandma used to believe. We all know that.
Cheers!
Uhi Rajeev,
CT, Amrika
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| Dr. Strangelove |
Posted
on 12-May-04 05:01 AM
Rauniyar Bhaiya.....do you really need to blaspheme Vishnu in order to make your point? By the way, in all fairness, your grandpa and grandma were probably somewhere in Bharat Rajya back in the day.
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| rauniyar |
Posted
on 12-May-04 05:30 AM
Dhanyabad!
Uhi Rajeev,
CT, Amrika
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| rauniyar |
Posted
on 12-May-04 06:05 AM
Hi dear all,
here is an article that my one of my friend wrote for "Tribune" few years ago. Hee puts his thoughts with utmost aplomb, like "Mama" does.
Uhi Rajeev,
CT, Amrika
The Prince and I
by Ranjit Rauniyar
It’s been barely two weeks since we returned from Kathmandu. We woke up overcast Saturday morning to the heavy circumstances in Nepal. My American friends look at this as a development in a far away historical subtext, perhaps akin somewhat to the way I’d react if say Prince Tippytoes in Tonga had perpetrated a similar situation – more intriguing than tragic, more fantastical than sad. But for the small Nepali community here far away in Greater Boston, the immediacy and enormity of what has happened continue to bring it indescribable pain.
I had met Prince Nirajan for the first time while I was a student at the London School of Economics. He was in his penultimate year at Eton at the time and had come to London along with his two cousin sisters (daughters of now King Gyanendra and Prince Dhirendra, the slain King’s youngest brother) to divert briefly from life at Eton. Chiran, a close friend of the prince and my classmate at the LSE, had asked me to come along with him. He seemed to implicitly have been “commissioned” with showing the honorable guests a “fine time.”
“Ever considered LSE after school?” I had asked the young Prince. “My “father” wants me to go to Oxford,” he said seeming long resigned to the paternal diktat. “Depends on my grades,” he added. “I haven’t been doing too well in school.” As if!
We talked the night away in an Irish bar in the heart of Covent Garden – in matters relating to life, friends, comedy and school. “Where in Nepal do you live?” the Prince asked me. “Kathmandu,” I said. “You should come over some time,” he said with such nonchalance that I didn’t know whether to chuckle at it or be grateful for it. “Yeah right, come over! Should I knock on the palace gates when I come over.”
The bouncer at The Hippodrome, a nightclub in the middle of Leicester square drawing large, unsuspecting tourists to its 80s style music and its tacky ambience, stopped the prince who was then barely 18 and asked him for his ID. I felt like interrupting the big bouncer and saying “Don’t you know silly man, he is the prince of Nepal.” But the Prince seemed to be savoring his anonymity, moving along in through with the crowds, eager to be one in the many.
We didn’t speak about politics, governance or the role of monarchy. Instead, we walked along eating hot dogs from a street vendor, reciprocating the salutations of strangers, and promising at the end of it all to stay in touch. As it is with these things, we of course never got around to staying in touch. I never had an occasion over the years to think much about the Prince and the Princesses. Until few days ago.
It is hard to personalise a loss when the whole nation has a claim to the events and circumstances of the last few days that providence has decreed for Nepal. My entire sadness is not that a “friend,” is no more but only that if his death had to be, that it would have come in a similarly unassuming, ordinary and non-abrasive way as I had for that one week in London, personally known his life to be.
(Ranjit Rauniyar is a graduate of the London School of Economics and is currently working in Boston.)
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| kalebhut |
Posted
on 12-May-04 09:58 AM
Nice articles there by Biswo and rauniyar ji. Ranjit rauniyar's account was nice. Prince nirajan was a good boy, I think. He would have been a role model if he was alive. But, alas! He is now a history. I don’t know much about history of Nepal other than the few anecdotes of her aristocratic rulers, monarchs and the dynasties. Those I’ve read in my school textbooks.
But, I have a few recollection of royal family members’ activities during my schooling years, which I’d like to share. One of my cousin, who attended budanil kantha school said that prince nirajan used to ogle her a lot.(I think prince nirajan did go to BNKS??) She even said that the prince came to her with a proposal and a red rose. I am not sure how true is this. She also added that he was a good football player and swimmer in his schooling years and more like a heartthrob among the girls in the school. The prince had the only privilege of growing a ponytail in the whole school.
Then, we had this two twin sisters by the names starting with the same letter “P”( (Prerana shah and sth like that)(affiliated to royals) in the school where I went. Oh.. What a duo of ganja smoking sex symbols they were back then. I, myself, even had an encounter with 1 of them. One of the two sisters went unconscious after a drug overdose during the lunch break. She was then carried to the school clinic-unconscious. Later, a big guy senior to me ordered me to go to clinic and bring the drug pills out off her frock’s pocket. I followed his order like an obedient dog and went to the clinic. She was then lying unconscious on the bed. Nobody was there and the nurse was attending someone. I tried to reach her pockets and the pills but I couldn’t. I tried my hands more inside, rummaged inside the pocket all over and what I found was a stripe of her panty inside her frock- the pocket of her frock had a hole. I reached my hand more inside and I felt that her pubic hair was not as hard as my hair. I moved my hand down and I discovered that part a bit sticky. She was then back to consciousness and was giving out a moaning hush, helplessly. Just then, the nurse entered the room and it was all over. I pretended I needed a diarrhoea pill and off I went.
This is only a memory or a recollection. This girl is now in Colorado, i guess, workingfor a big co. . Just my contribution to this thread.
kalebhut
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| mildseven |
Posted
on 12-May-04 11:11 AM
I don't care if mahendra and tribhuwan were womanizers. all i wanna know is how they were as kings. and i know that already. I might even believe allt he dirt if someone more credible told me then BP and Biswo. For christ's sake, talk about conflict of interest.BP writing about shahs. From what I have heard BP was as big a womanizer as tribhuwan and mahendra were and everyone knows about the countless affairs of Jawaharlal Nehru, the most infamous one being with the wife of then outgoing viceroy or gov. gen. of india. so frankly i dont see why biswo needs to cut and paste stuff out of books entitled "holier than thou". written by people who pull the same mantra. Tell me what BP says about mahendra as a king. and tell me ur analysis. u r just feeding off people voyeristic inclininations to make ur point about shahs. They went into cubicles re? what nonsense. u get ur kicks by reading and telling people about what cubicle which king went into. why dont u use ur time better and tell us what political decisions affecting the whole country and its future did mahendra make and how that was bad for the country or good for the coutry. or are you or BP not interested in that at all.
I know Mahendra didnt but did Tribhuwan use any contraceptives? what brand? tell us.
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| Dr. Strangelove |
Posted
on 12-May-04 11:16 AM
Kalebhut, what exactly are you tryng to prove by divulging people's names and your horrid attempt to sexually gratify yourself by taking advantage of an unconscious person? Just because somebody did drugs does not give you a license to abuse that person. Shame on you!
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| DWI |
Posted
on 12-May-04 11:47 AM
I choose to read the article as a work of literature. I don’t think BP was preaching about the King’s bad habit; mildseven said BP was womenizer..I don’t know the truth but sure seems like it, reading his Sumnima.
That doesn’t mean BP was a bad character and neither does it approve or disapprove King T’s job as a King.
On a lighter note, I don’t have problem with this posting. Whatever the intent be, it wasn’t a personal opinion by the poster (Biswo) and he shouldn’t be attacked for it, that is MY personal opinion.
Remember! Clinton wasn’t impeached for misconduct in the oval office, but for lying under oath.
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| nsshrestha |
Posted
on 12-May-04 12:44 PM
Biswo,
I have had no access to any Nepalese books for more than a decade, so all my readings of Nepalese literature, history and politics dates back to my high school days. Only Nepali books I have read in last twelve years are “Madhavi” and “Mera katha ka pana haru”. Bigyapan ko dhad ma patrakar le lekheko tukra takri lai padhai nabhanau
hola :)
Ashu brings a good point, why there was no account of BP’s womanizing? Was it too undemocratic to scrutinize the dark side of BP so the historian refrained? I remember NSU wallhas stigmatizing Grisma Bahadur Devkota for Nepal ko Rajnaitik Darpan. BP’s literary works very much evolves around woman/womaniser/womanising from Narendra Dai to Hitler ra Yahudi. So there must exist some broken links.
How how to put which dynasty where thing goes? Except the Shahas and Malls do we even have any written history /significant artifacts other than the travelogue of Huen Sang?
Sumnima was a story of Yakthumba told to BP by Bal Bahadur Rai on his jail stay. It was purely a folklore so I do not think it could pass yard stick to measure him.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 12-May-04 01:48 PM
First of all, I will welcome it if someone comes up with any account of BP's wayward life. But I am not going to believe it just because some of you think BP must be womaniser because Nehru was. So, rather than attacking me or BP, I prefer it if you guys dig something, quote some one regarding his profligate life. I personally know that Surya Upadhyay has written a diary, which is yet to be published. An enraged relative of Mr Upadhyay, who is not portrayed well in the book Atmabrittant, had told about the diary and his intention to publish it to one of my closest relatives about one year ago, so I know about this.
mildseven,
For your information, in Atmabrittant, BP hasn't written anything bitter against king Mahendra. And just to let you know, Mahendra was a mean demon who pushed us to the darkness of autocracy, who overthrew the elected government in less than two years, and who put the leaders behind the bar even without charging them and giving them a chance to defend themselves in the court.
cardinal,
I checked my last five postings. They are not all anti-king. About riddle, Ascolites, scent of a woman etc etc. Hence it is not that I write against monarchy in every thread I start. I mean I was reading the book and I realised sajhaites might appreciate some parts of the book, so I posted it. Look, you all know I am not a supporter of monarchy, so you may have seen even my reposting of an autobiography as something of republican thingy again.
Again, why are some of you people so afraid of truth? I mean, why can't some of you take it as it is? Tomorrow, if I write something about Paras's wild life in Chitwan as told to me by the locals, it is likely that some of you get upset.I can't help that.
I welcome it if you bring me the lives of Koiralas. Adhikaris. or Thapas. It doesn't hurt me. I am not a blind supporter of anyone of them. I think tomorrow if the king is thrown away, we need to be careful of Koiralas too because once in the power, they are also capable of ruling the Nepal like the Shahs. We need to be careful of UML guys, we need to be careful of everybody, and personally I am also distrustful of them. It is democratic institutions, and strong civil society that will protect our right. I want our country to be ruled by rules, so that we can go along in our own business without being bothered by strong state or without having to appease someone in authority. An average American normally doesn't care who is the ruler, because he knows he doesn't have to appeal to any leader for his civil rights. That's what I want tomorrow: I don't want to go to any leader to get license for my business, I don't want to go to any leader to ask for the job, I want a mechanism where I and my kids can compete freely for any public office or position, and I want a free Nepal where no ethnic group feels left behind. I know king can't create this kind of society, because as long as he insists he is above the law, his son is above the law, anyone who's name has prefix sri 5 is above the law, and can't be prosecuted by law even when they commit crime as bad as regicide itself, there are going to be two classes of people.
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| nsshrestha |
Posted
on 12-May-04 03:25 PM
There is an account in Anita butrssing the article above. Sardar Patel asked Pundit Neharu – “Yeh lali powder pahan ne wala chalayega desh”? I can not confirm the veracity of it though as it is a fiction.
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| nsshrestha |
Posted
on 12-May-04 03:30 PM
Dr. StrangGlove,
Still infatuated with Ram Bharat analogy? Forgot? You are Dr. Jackle here,
not Mr. Hide.
In very jest :0)
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| failedstate |
Posted
on 12-May-04 03:40 PM
I also read the book -- Jail Joural...BP says in that book: "You can ask me to give up anyhing (referring to his smoking and perhaps drinking habits) but don't ask me not to sleep with women. It is my Kamjori" He says this to his wife during a visit.
The womanizing issue is even discussed in the preface and is hailed as a sign of his greatness (the fact that he confessed.)
I liked what BP wrote and I believe he was a very bright person with goodness in his heart for Nepal. That is, I really like him very much. I liked John F. Kennedy even though he changed women more than his cars.
So big freaking deal, unless you have some agenda to bash someone. You can smell someone's agenda from miles.
For example:
When people start with a sentence like: "I was talking to this guy who is kind of pro-palace and was so much bad mouthing about the students who worked at gas stations." You immediately should know where he is going with it.. "This is the mentality of these elitist loyalists." I have some relatives who are dead against the palace, and yet you do not want to touch them with a 12 ft. poll. They are arrogant, and nasty to people of "low standard" and low caste.
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| failedstate |
Posted
on 12-May-04 03:43 PM
I meant "royalist" NOT "loyalists".
|
| Dr. Strangelove |
Posted
on 12-May-04 03:51 PM
Hey Pasa,
Why do you keep on distorting my name? Smart Alec, you probaby think yourself to be quite ingenious and witty, huh? Guess what, dream on!!!
In Jest just like the Rest! 0)
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| rauniyar |
Posted
on 12-May-04 07:49 PM
Dr Stranglove:
I owe you a reply that I did not do this morning.
Also, be watchful of what you think you are. I say so coz I know who you are. Your imagination of hiding behind Psuedonym @ Sajha is just one fallacy that you are going to regret.
Stop being concieted one upon another on fellow Sajhaties who deserve little more respect than what you can offer.
Cheers!
Uhi Rajeev,
CT, Amrika
PS There is cyberworld.There are black hats. And there are better White hats. This poster need not consult Admin of this site to know "who is who."
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| nsshrestha |
Posted
on 12-May-04 08:27 PM
Dr. StrangeLove,
Sincere apology for misstyping your name. Actually I have been missreading it.
May be you never said anything that’s lovable so I kept thinking its StrangeGlove.
Oh! StrangeLove, that’s why you were talking of the bottles, ab aya na baat samajh me.
Do I think I am pretty ingenious? I do not know. But you are pretty fool. I told you quietly, your veil is pretty thin. You would not listen. Heard what Rauniyar said?
Suffering from multiple personality disorder or Churna pareko chha hajur ka aula haru ma, jata jatai salbalai dinchhan anayasai?
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| Badmash |
Posted
on 12-May-04 08:56 PM
Rauniar, that is such nonsense. One can not find out who is who wherther you go to admin or admin's admin. And it is even more foolish to claim you can do so without going to admin. You may narrow it down somewhat by trace routing someone's IP, if you find that out, and go as far as finding one's netwrok address, or even hostname. But you will never find out who that person is. IP addresses/hostnames does not come with name attached. Think before making such nonsensical comment.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 12-May-04 11:23 PM
> By the way, in all fairness, your grandpa
> and grandma were probably somewhere
> in Bharat Rajya back in the day.
Dr Strangelove:
I really need to warn you against writing something like that: it has unnecessarily communal overtone.Our differences aside, let's learn to respect our fellow sajhaites without losing civility and mutual respect, and without hurling innuendos that are made to please one's bigot self.
And yes, you are free to believe that Vishnu crap, and you are free to inculcate that crap in your children's mind if you wish. It is your freedom.
Again, write against me if you are disgruntled with what I wrote here, I don't object to civil protests. It was quite unnecessary for you to show your Brooklyn-anger at Rauniyar for what I wrote in the thread:-)
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| Kurikuri |
Posted
on 13-May-04 02:39 AM
Yeah man friends let us stop this name calling, it was rude expression by strangeglove against Rauniyar, wahat was his basis and need for such outbrusts.
Regarding the article, Biswo if only the power of fatal attarction to opposite sex could be resisted, everyone would be yogis. In this case one aspect that also needs careful consideration is the comaprisions of BP (Bahun, was he a veg?) and the Shas (Khatriyas), in different mode i.e mode of goodness and passion, hence the sexual instinct must have been different.
Royals to rags, this is where we are equal, that there are some bodily desires and pleasures that levels us all as human being.
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| Dr. Strangelove |
Posted
on 13-May-04 05:08 AM
Biswo,
I was just telling Rauniyar that he could have made his point about not believing King as the Vishnu incarnate without using the word "crap". Where in the hell do you get that I believe such divination to be so? I don't subscribe to the same brand of political ideology as you but that doesn't mean I postulate deifying anybody including the king.
Is this civil enough for you?
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| rauniyar |
Posted
on 13-May-04 05:31 AM
Dear Mr Strange....
>>I was just telling Rauniyar that he could have made his point about not believing King as the Vishnu incarnate without using the word "crap". Where in the hell do you get that I believe such divination to be so? I don't subscribe to the same brand of political ideology as you but that doesn't mean I postulate deifying anybody including the king.
What I wrote had nothing to do with you or you immediate history of family unlike what you wrote. Besides, my atheiest claims are my wishes and I am free to opine on that. If it is somewhat bothersome to you, you could bring it to my notice in a modest way than to post this:
Posted on 05-12-04 5:01 AM Reply | Notify Admin
Rauniyar Bhaiya.....do you really need to blaspheme Vishnu in order to make your point? By the way, in all fairness, your grandpa and grandma were probably somewhere in Bharat Rajya back in the day.
>> I ain't your bhaiya. Don't want to be one either. Also, I surfed through most of you posts in curiosity. I found that it all talks about mudslinging other respected Sajhaites. I have not found any (or any single) post from you that could be as termed intellectual property for Sajah. You have been on the hunt to prove that you are the best. And as my fellow friend Nsshrestha wrote:
>>Suffering from multiple personality disorder or Churna pareko chha hajur ka aula haru ma, jata jatai salbalai dinchhan anayasai?
I agree with it.
They say that reserach is the door to unknown, and I spent some time reseraching all your posts. They all try to either prove that you know lots of grammer, english, sayari in hindhi, maths and everything else too!
Uhi Rajeev,
CT, Amrika
Ps Badmash ji, you are damn right on your post. *smile*
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| Dr. Strangelove |
Posted
on 13-May-04 05:54 AM
Rauniyar, it seems that I did step a little aboard the line of decency and made a disparaging comment about your hereditary. I apologise for the transgression!
Having said that, I am not here to prove anything. I just write on a whim on anything that seems to interest me!
I've also seen what you write here. Are you here to prove something? Are you a card-carrying member of the Sajha intelligentsia?
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| rauniyar |
Posted
on 13-May-04 06:32 AM
Dear Dr Strangelove,
thanks for your kind note. I much appreciate it. I for one have no grudges against you or for that matter any other Sajhaites. We all are Nepali, that is how I see. Otherwise I would not be here spending my time.
My unsolicited feedback was not to make you feel bad, but to put across a perspective as an outsider to you. That is all.
>>I've also seen what you write here. Are you here to prove something? Are you a card-carrying member of the Sajha intelligentsia
Nope, I am far away from being intelligent. I do not consider myself being here to prove anything. I keep away from topics related religion and politics, you must have seen it. And for last but not the least, "Bhale Judai" is not my cup of tea.
I juts learn a lot @ Sajha. It is a great place to meet old friends and make new friends as well.
Let us rest the caes here please. Thanks much!
Uhi Rajeev,
CT, Amrika
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 13-May-04 10:28 AM
> it seems that I did step a little aboard
>the line of decency and made a
>disparaging comment about your hereditary.
> I apologise for the transgression!
Thanks Dr Strangelove. It is civil enough for me.
I think it is upto us to maintain the harmony among all of us Nepali. Even when we err, we always have plenty of time to correct it.We can always have difference of opinion regarding how to run our nation, but there should be no difference of opinion regarding how to treat our fellow Nepali, or in our case, our fellow sajhaite.
I appreciate your reply. Looking forward to reading your other witty and wise comments in other threads too.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 13-May-04 10:39 AM
>Biswo if only the power of fatal attarction
> to opposite sex could be resisted,
> everyone would be yogis.
Depends on how we define yogis:-)
Actually, my original posting has something to do with propriety, rather than appealing for sexual chastity(as is common for yogis).
Whether a king, a leader of revolution, should furtively go to Calcutta/Bombay and mingle with low grade women and businessmen?
The king , unlike other leaders, takes sallary from nation's coffer all the time. To compare, BP was the home minister for a brief period in 2007 and then the prime minister for less than two years. That's the total time he served the nation in official capacity, if I am correct about it. Tribhuwan is also considered a Rashtrapita for ushering in democracy, if panchayati versions of events are to be considered. There is a high ground for him to uphold.
Hence, the king shouldn't be mingling with low grade businessmen, and be manipulable by these people. Manipulation becomes even bigger issue when we factor in his unconscionable crave for women. We must understand that those times were very dangerous: Sardar Patel was gobbling in several princely states of India that wouldn't yield to new republic of India, and Nepal was also going through unstable politics. We needed the king who was active and alert in his mind.
This is almost same thing that I see to be deficient in current days Nepal. Our prince, Paras, has almost same problem: he mingles with people of dubious characters. He goes to shady joints.And justifiably, people are furious about that too.
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| rbaral |
Posted
on 13-May-04 12:04 PM
Bishwo ji
You have brought up a very nice read. Thank you. As a person, or a member of society, it is not advisable for anybody to visit brothels for pleasure. For that matter, Kings and princes should not be doing that kind of thing. I agree.
In your recent post, you have pulled Paras in the discussion. Per my observation, Paras has not done anything he should be defamed of, at least after he has been made the Crown Prince. When Dipendra was Crown Prince, of course all of us have heard and read of Paras' inappropriate advances. Putting this thing aside, Dipendra was not a better guy. It is not a very pleasant thing to talk bad things of a deceased person, but truth is truth, Dipendra was terrible.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 13-May-04 01:45 PM
Rishiji:
You put me in a tough condition where I have to wrest with my fading memory, and dig up something from the receding past.
Paras has mended his way to some extent after being crown prince. This seems so may be also because he epitomized the recklessness when he was only ' prince'. Btw, let it be known that even the princes, sons of adhirajkumars, get sallary from our national coffer, so they have some certain responsibility to the nation.
I talked about the bad company of crown prince. The newspapers have reported that last year, in his birthday party at Everest, I am reasonably sure it was birthday bash but it may not be so, there was this haphazard shooting in which noone was hurt. The people invited in his party were people of disrepute. Furthermore, it was widely cited that because the crown prince was in bad company while left alone in Nirmal Niwas, he was asked to move to Narayanhiti by his father.
Other than that, he seemed to be keeping low profile. If his father had kept as low profile as Paras, I think , it may be wishful thinking, we probably wouldn't have witnessed this mess in Kathmandu.
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| mildseven |
Posted
on 13-May-04 02:00 PM
Biswo said - Sardar Patel was gobbling in several princely states of India that wouldn't yield to new republic of India, and Nepal was also going through unstable politics. We needed the king who was active and alert in his mind.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Instead we had a king who offered Nepal to Nehru as a state of India, which thankfully he declined. All you pro democracy people would've loved that !!! we would've had democracy, no king, and since the former PMs/Presidents of india are from all parts of India, we could've had a nepali primeminister or president as well. who knows.
before you start hammering me with questions like who the heck says King T made this offer, show me proof blah blah blah,(esp. young people) I WILL NOT tell you how I know. but if you are more interested in knowing the facts than calling me a liar, spend a little bit of time online or ask someone who knows about the history of south asia and you will find out all the details.
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| failedstate |
Posted
on 13-May-04 03:29 PM
For whatever it's worth:
I also heard that Late King Birendra did decline to be a titula King (like in Bhutan) during 1990. The deal was that India would then quelch (by crarrot or stick) the "Democracy Andolan".
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| mildseven |
Posted
on 13-May-04 06:47 PM
Nehru told the world he couldnt do it cause it would be wrong to accept a soverign nation as a state or some BS like that. People say he didnt do it because he didnt wanna have to defend such a long border with china and he didnt wanna have to sustain a (to be) state like Nepal with the tough terrains and he was also not sure if the nepalis would agree to it as easily as their king. i wouldnt have agreed to it either if i was in nehrus place. if i was in King T's place i wouldnt have made such a shameful offer anyways.
these actions by our kings and their repercussions by the way are what i like to debate and discuss, rather than the cubicle story.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 14-May-04 12:06 AM
mildseven:
There was a buzz about what Tribhuwan offered to Nehru and what Nehru didn't want in Kathmandu a few years ago. The increase in noise level was due to the publication of Profiles and letters by veteran Indian civil servant and later a minister, Natwar Singh. I haven't read the book, but from the excerpt then published in Nepalese media , Tribhuwan offered something like that,and there was also this Iron Man Patel wanting to annex Nepal, but Nehru didn't want to take Nepal because he didn't want to be derided worldwide as an expansionist power hungry leader.
True or false, we don't know.
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| mildseven |
Posted
on 14-May-04 08:02 AM
You are right we will never know whether this was true or false since I wasnt there to see it happen and I dont completely believe any of the memoirs, malkani, singh or any other person for that matter. Same way we will never know whether all the non fiction junk that BP wrote in his life is true or not. But you seem to want to believe BP. Is it because BP didnt say anything you dont wanna believe and said all the colorful things that you want to?
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 14-May-04 09:29 AM
mildseven:
There is no comparison between Malkan or Singh or Mahendrai and BP.
And for your information, BP didn't write that book, the book was recorded in a tape recorder when he was in his deathbed.
As lawyer Ganesh Raj Sharma wrote, even the statement of a criminal in a deathbed is considered credible by judges in the court.
And finally, yea, if you read other accounts of other Nepali, especially recent memoir of Nara Shamsher, or if you talk to some other people of BP era, you will find these accounts being confirmed.
So, don't stay there being skeptic. If you don't want to believe, you won't believe whole lot of things. Just differentiate between people. There are veritable people, and there are dishonest people. You need to have the discriminatory power to see and adjudge who writes correctly.
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| mildseven |
Posted
on 14-May-04 10:23 AM
so I should believe Ganesh Raj Sharma's analysis of the human psyche, then apply it to BP and then believe what he said. And while BP was dying, he was desperately trying to save a few breaths to tell the world about the royal orgies he has seen in his life. Since Malkan and Singh did not say what they said in their death bed, they are less credible as sources. Who have you talked to from the BP era? You can't tell me ofcourse. Because it would be wrong for you to name them and they wont come out and say it it cause they are not on their death beds so they can still be asked to defend what they said. Malkani and Singh and Jethmalini and other indian leaders from Nehru era are still around and they say it out aloud away from the safety of their death beds.so who is more credible?
Heres my critique of the Sharma's statement. Its ridiculous to believe anything someone says on his/her death bed because after they die, no one can questions them, and they are happily robbed of an oppurtunity to defend the statements they have made.
How much money and more importantly fame have these authors earned? Just by picking some dirt or the other about a famous and important personality and then smaering it all over their books so people like you read it. That is what these authors do. Call someone evil and you become the embodiment of good automatically. Call someone wrong and your are right by default. And in case you are worried that people may not listen to you, fill it with cheap stories for mass appeal.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 14-May-04 11:20 AM
mildseven:
If you want to believe Singh, it is your privilege.
If you don't want to believe BP, it is also your privilege.No one can force you to believe something you don't want to believe.OK? If you say you don't want to believe established judiciary practices, you don't want to believe a man widely regarded as our nation's finest in this century, a man who was our nation's first prime minister and who consistently fought with evil regimes whole his life, that is your privilege. If you can come up with some counter facts, that will be even better.
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| MillionDollars |
Posted
on 14-May-04 12:06 PM
Biswo,
Why is it that most of the things you start ends up like this:
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 14-May-04 12:56 PM
millionDollars:
Nice cartoon, there.
May be it shows some of the readers of my threads really are inquisitive and want to be clear about the matter I am talking about. Similarly, I also write things with reasonable confidence, and I feel bound to defend what I write here. Let's take it as a positive sign:-)
Again, nice cartoon there.
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| rbaral |
Posted
on 14-May-04 01:03 PM
Is that Chinese character on the wall? or Japanese?
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 14-May-04 01:07 PM
It is Chinese character for sure. I know a lot of Chinese characters are used in Japanese too, but don't know about this one.
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| mildseven |
Posted
on 14-May-04 03:16 PM
Define fact. BP's words? Ganesh Raj Sharma's words? Facts or facts for you only?
Established judiciary practice is to believe anything a person on his death bed says? In what judicial system?
You believe a pro democracy career politician rambling on his death bed against monarchy and you call that fact? Even from those ramblings, you select the most steamy "item" , most eye catching item and you post it here and that is a fact?
man widely regarded as our nation's finest in this century, a man who was our nation's first prime minister and who consistently fought with evil regimes whole his life.
let me guess. he is the one who told you the regimes he was fighting were evil right?
Where I am from, he is widely regarded as the one who sowed the seeds of corruption in an infant democracy.
so like i said define facts
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 14-May-04 04:37 PM
>You believe a pro democracy career
>politician rambling on his death bed
>against monarchy and you call that fact?
As a matter of fact, yes, I do.
> let me guess. he is the one who told
> you the regimes he was fighting were
> evil right?
No, actually. I didn't need anyone to help me to figure out Rana regime and Panchayat regime were evil. Rana and Panchayati regimes themselves told me.
I hope that satisfies you.
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| mildseven |
Posted
on 15-May-04 01:21 PM
I was wasting my time then talking to someone who I thought had a brain :-) turned out to be a semi educated person who is moderately read but due to his surroundings/upbringing seems to believe that he has now enough experience from books to start preaching to people. I have seen quite a few :-) You read a few books, have a degree or 2 and sojha janta around you start listening to what you say and you think you are on your way to joining the intellectual class of the country :-)
I should have known this when ur first reply to my query was a vague "mahendra was a demon" instead of answering my question. But after you have said "fact for me is what a career liar like BP says" I get the idea.
Anyway "Biwswo Ji" Goodluck !
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| niksnpl |
Posted
on 15-May-04 01:30 PM
wa mildseven!!!
good logic.............reading 2, 3 books, writing long essays.getting degress.and influencing people doesn't show anything......
good point.
i like that.......
:U:U
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| rauniyar |
Posted
on 16-May-04 07:50 PM
Mr MildSeven:
I was wasting my time then talking to someone who I thought had a brain :-) turned out to be a semi educated person who is moderately read but due to his surroundings/upbringing seems to believe that he has now enough experience from books to start preaching to people. I have seen quite a few :-) You read a few books, have a degree or 2 and sojha janta around you start listening to what you say and you think you are on your way to joining the intellectual class of the country :-)
>> As a third party, I do have some valid questions on the post you generated out of blue.
For me to understand how many books you have read, or for that matter how intellecutual your consider yourself is merely personal. NO WHERE IN THE POST I READ BISWO WRITING THAT HE HAS READ MORE BOOKS THAN YOU (WHICH YOU SUB-CONSCIUSLY CONCLUDED) AND/OR HE IS MORE INTELLIGENT THAN YOU. So in effect, you are assuming things that you should rather not. Besides, for me to understand a poster who changes his name as frequently as weather, is a moot cause.
Biswo is not preaching anyone in any capacity. He lives with his thoughts, and he is free to express what he thinks. That is what I read when I follow this thread.
Ideas are to be discussed, alternatives and options need to explored without being subjective about who/how/when was the thread posted. I think you are missing the point all-together.
Anyway "MildSeven Ji" Goodluck !
Uhi Rajeev,
CT, Amrika
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