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| Brook | Posted
on 01-Jun-04 11:45 PM
Sher Bdr. Deuba has been declared the new Prime Minister. Deuba new PM (Update 11:30 AM) State-owned Nepal Television announced at 11:00 am that Sher Bahadur Deuba has been named the new prime minister. The announcement was made soon after Deuba finished a meeting with King Gyanendra on Wednesday morning. The king has asked Deuba to form a government that includes other political parties and to hold elections within 2061 BS. nepalnews.com Some random questions: Besides UML support (for which UML will likely get rewarded with a few cabinet seats) what else does Deuba have that Chand and Thapa didn't have? More importantly, what does Deuba have today that he didn't have pre October 4. 2002? MaKuNe's deft maneuvering has helped Deuba deliver a nasty blow to Girija Pd. Koirala this time. UML broke away from the "five party coalition" because of disagreements with the other four parties that insisted that the nomination for PM was NOT the real issue. Interestingly, the party that UML quickly patched up with - NC(D) - thought along similar lines: NC(D) didn't even tender their nominations for the post of PM! |
| An Indun Poet | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 12:11 AM
Politics is a game. Girijia seems to have gained control when he kind of forced out MaKuNe as the five parties PM candidate. Girija is a mahir kheladi (kheladiyo ka kheladi), remember him hiding behind and supporting Surya Bdr Thapa, while showing his teeth in the public. Its interesting though-- Girija, Shere, Loke, Surya Bdr are the only fit candidates to be PM of Nepal. The only other PM in the last 15 years excluding deceased Man Mohan Adhikari and budha Krishna Pd Bhattarai. Intersting...... I hope something good comes out of this, although I was hoping for a strong United force against the KING. I was hoping the king would nominate Rajeswore Devkota or some "darbariya" who would irritate the Democratic forces and oust the king. Seems like it will just be a wishful thinking for now..... |
| Brook | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 02:07 AM
Ok, so now there's been a regression of regression! (From Nepalnews) Newly appointed Prime Minister Sher Bahadur Deuba said Wednesday he will try to forge support an all-party government with the help of other political parties. PM Deuba talking to the press at him home, Wednesday, June 02 04. "My effort will be to form a government with support and participation from other political parties," said Deuba, during a brief press conference held in his residence immediately after his appointment. He added that his appointment had ended the need for the agitation against 'regression'. "I will be meeting with key political leaders to gain their support." Deuba said that UML general secretary, Madhav Nepal, whom he had met yesterday, was supported his candidature and added he would meet president of Nepali Congress, Girija Prasad Koirala, soon. Outside the palace, Deuba told reporters that his party has taken the appointment as the restoration of the government that was ousted by the King on October 4, 2002. "The King had ousted my government. My appointment as the PM, shows that he has reinstated it," he said. He also said he would be able to maintain peace in the country and hold general elections by the end of this year. Deuba is due to be sworn in by the King later Wednesday. Meanwhile, CPN-UML sources said the party would come up with a formal opinion on the new political development after the meetings of the standing committee and the central committee on Thursday and Friday. The UML had earlier pledged support to Deuba if his ousted government was restored. nepalnews.com mbk June 02 04 |
| Biswo | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 02:24 AM
This is arguably the best political play I have seen in my life. Girija Koirala tried to outmanoeuvre Madhav. Madhav struck back. King had ousted Deuba. Said he was inept. Did he also say he was corrupt?Now, situation is so dire for him he wants to go back to Deuba who seems to be the lone sherriff in the town who can protect him from his angry subjects. I think one should wait to see how many parties are going to support Deuba, and what Deuba's move regarding 18 points demands, Maoists demands, elections etc would be. If UML and RPP and Sadvabana(Not Mandal faction) support Deuba, then I guess this government will have some legitimacy.It was wrong for Nepali Congress to oppose just to announce Madhav Nepal as its consensus candidate, and this decision will haunt it in future. Country's Republican movement is going to suffer direly for a few weeks. But we know , the king is evil, the future king is evil, they will try to do something bad, something obtrusive one day, their loudmouth relatives, ex-army generals will always try to do something to undermine democracy, such as planting seeds of fake organizations like Save The Nation. People will have no other options but to oblitarate the whole institute at the time, with the help of new leadership that is really respected by mass. With corrupt, spineless, and mutually distrusting leadership, any agitation can go only so far. |
| An Indun Poet | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 02:50 AM
As soon as there was some hint about Deuba, Girija had an immergency meeting with Pashupati and clearly was going to promote Pashupati for the premiership, alas time had passed and Girija got the blow. He should have given a yes to Tara Bhat which might have been a better situation for him. Not uniting with Sher Bahadur, and saving faces of GRJ should cost him a big time. Deuba however has the luxury of not having Khum Bdr and Jaya Prkash Gupta, although he does have Wagle and Gacchadhar on his side. But I would think at least Wagle will not be in the Cabinet. I doubt if Shadvawana (Ananddevi) would join the government, it must be that Mandal faction that is supporting. And won't be surprised if Kamal Thapa, Praksh Chandra Lohani (the flip-flops) of RPP coming back to the party to join the government or at least try at it. They are the ones who don't have the tiniest of dignity and stand. Lets see how it folds..... But I am sad the "Republican" agenda will hit a setback for the time being. I do agree that Gyane will try something as soon as he gets a chance, and hopefully by the time we will have some good leadership to oust his Shah clan. |
| jaya_nepal | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 06:34 AM
Defnitely a nice political move by King G. Deuba represents the elected candidate who was ousted on October 4. Moreover, he has support from the UML, RPP and other parties and this would give him majority support - thus a government supported by the masses. The question would be how he would work on restoring peace in Nepal and form an all party government. The inflexibility shown by Koirala gave him a big blow in his political career. But he would definitely strike back with street protests and demonstrations as he did to oust Krishna Prasad Bhattarai. The Deuba government should take strict actions against all political rallies, peacefuly rallies, bandhs and other anti social activties that the five party alliance has been carrying. I am sure Deuba will also be able to negotiate with Maoist, due to his past experience. Prachanda might not hesitate as he is not King G's another man. Now, regarding King G's motive. At this time, we should not worry about that rather, concentrate on reforming Nepal. But Deuba has to be strict with terms of King G as well. Good Luck to Deuba.. May peace be restored in Nepal. jaya_nepal..!!! |
| GP | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 06:55 AM
I think this is great medal to Deoba. Partly a relief to UML because Deoba govt. won't last much and Girija won't be united to make UML second strong parlimentarian party. Its a real defeat / deception in the perspective Girija. I am not criticizing Nepali Congress, but, Girija and I am not supporting Deoba Congress, but, supporting Deoba. It is Girija policy that is problematic. Greatest looser is really Girija, not the Nepali Congress. Nepali Congress will be polished at the expense of Girija, thats good for the country. You shake a water, clay, organic material and sand so much create a state of liquefaction, then, you will clearly see these 4 stuffs separate. Its a time NC to stirr and clean up the bad stuffs. Well, Makune will certainly be next PM. There will be no election at least for a year. There will be more killing from Maoist side. My prediction of settlement with Maoists still 6 years a way. After Makune, someone from Maoist may become PM, but, it will turn out to be gaddar Maoist PM because most of the Maoists will not lay arms down because they are already enjoying the power of gun in all aspect of their life. GP |
| DWI | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 07:12 AM
Biswo Sorry to say this, but what you wrote was pathetic. I regret even going over that piece. I haven't made such a harsh comment to anybody here in Sajha, but that was just too much of hatred spilling out from your words. No matter what King does, it is going to be his fault, I concur. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 07:52 AM
Deuba got reinstated for: 1) Deuba won't demand the king to make the "unconstitutional" move to restore the house (since he himself dissolved it). 2) Deuba is probably one leader free of the Maoists' influence. 3) Deuba is not very fond of Indian leaders and vice-versa. So expect more internationalization of the Maoist and the Refugee issues. India has a secular Congress govt., Nepal has an anti-Indian PM just in time to meet with the visiting Indian FM. Kya balance mileko! 4) Deuba never chanted slogans against the King. 5) Deuba was consistent (who says consistency does not help?). For the last two years he was demanding the reinstatement of his governmnet, and he got it. 6) Finally, as expected Girija screwed up. Madhav got angry. Result: Deuba became the PM. the lessons: 1. no permanent friends or permanent enemies in politics. 2. consistency is a leadership trait. 3. there is always an acceptable way to voice your dis-satisfaction. 4. the King knows how to play games and knows how to win them, and that makes him a better leader than all the ratnapark gang. |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 07:54 AM
Biswo, I am quite surprised to your despicable comments. Well, this is not the first time I have seen you degrading your own reputation with such cheap comments. Now I am convinced that you barely make valid points when you talk so cheap, like some leaders of Nepal, who comes forth on the stage, grabs the mic, and whacks anything to stir up the dimwitted public without any basis. I might not have followed up your comments previously or your willingness for political solutiona at this time. Can you explain us what king was supposed to do in this situation when five parties themselves, especially Girija and makune, were having clash to snatch PM position? They could not come up with any names, when theyýre asked. Would you be happy if the position was handed to Makune??? |
| Hellbound | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 07:55 AM
IF, very good points. |
| ashu | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 08:46 AM
I find it unsurprising that Girija P. Koirala's inflexibility and rigidity can also be found in some of his ardent (vocal or silent) followers/admirers on Sajha.com. General remarks: My INFORMAL impression is that Koirala's camp (in and out of Nepal) has a number of these chest-thumping from-the-village-to-the-best-of-univeristies-so-we-know--the-real-Nepal insufferable types (mostly bahuns) . . . most of whom end up being arrogant as hell, inflexible, rigid, supercilious men who can be charming to their superiors while being contemptuous of others, and who would put even Karl Rove to shame when it comes to using sneaky tactics to achieve their political aims. [I have this intuition that I'll be formalizing this theory with solid evidence in comng years and decades, but, hey, I am getting ahead of the story.] Anyway, through his own rigid all-or-nothing stance, Girija has jeopardized the future of his party and that of his karya-kartas. Advice to Deuba? Forget Koirala. Don't waste time patching things up with Girija. Let him rant and rave, and exhaust himself, and let him make a fool of himself. Don't react to anything he says. Meantime, believe in yourself, gather your team members and surge ahead with confidence. Sensing that the center of gravity has changed, the Nepali Congress-wallahs will start coming over to you anyway. oohi ashu |
| GP | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 09:48 AM
Biswo ji looked really angry. You should have controlled anger and just watched a few days before spilling venom over King G. Let me remind you that Makune is the one who protected Rawal over corruption scandals when his own party indicted Rawal for the corruption in RNAC issues. Well, lets not be personal. I was very much satisfied with a Tilt Theory of History, that I read in Washington Post (?) day before yesterday. It has three choices based on priority: 1. I win and you lost. (I will consider it a great victory) 2. I loss and you loss. (thats satisfactory victory). 3. I win and you also win. (unwanted victory). As a public / citizen of Nepal, I would prefer to have third choice, but, the five parties (specially, Girija) want option number 1. I think if Girija would have recommended Makune as their consensus choice, we would have ended up with option number 3. Girija would still be in winning situation. But, I think now King G and Deoba have won option 1, while Girija tried to opt for option 2 with Makune and other fellow agitating parties. I am still positive that King G is not to the extreme that Biswo ji painted in his last posting. He just wanted to have option number 3, but, ended up with option 1. We need a leadership who can tilt the choices and bring us choice number 3. Lets hope Deoba will try and good wishes for him. GP |
| sajhakoraja | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 09:57 AM
Sher B....Tha Comeback Ji!!! Will have to wait to see if it's "Same Shite, Different Day" or "Same Shite, Different Deuba." Perhaps Gyanendra can help Kerry choose a running mate??? LOL! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 10:13 AM
I think the leaders' failure to reach a consensus is just one of the reasons and actually least important of all, for Deuba's reinstatement. What do you think, the King would appointed MKN even if all had agreed? No. The change of government in India and the Maoist problem in Nepal has to do a lot with Deuba becoming PM for the third time. MKN knows it very well that unless he changes the name of his party, he won't be sitting on the PM chair anytime soon. Come on, which country in the world will support a governmnet of a Marxist-Leninist party in Nepal, especially at a time when they can easily influence the decision making in Nepal? Unless the UML gets a majority seats in the next elections, which I highly doubt, there's no way as of today of MKN becoming Nepal's PM in near future. Where as Deuba was/is favored by the US and the UK governmnets because he knew how to capitalize on the communist threat (before 9/11) and "terrorist" threat after 9/11. And he is favored by the Army for bringing in arms supplies from Belgium, the US and the UK. His consistency is remarkable and he is willing to take risks. His consistency in dealing with the Maoist problem after the talks failed and his internationalizing the Bhutanese Refugee issue, has made him a not so favorable to India. And by appointing Deuba just on the eve of the new Indian FMs visit, the King wants to send a powerful message to India: Stop meddling in Nepal's internal politics and supporting the anti-governmnet forces in India, or else, we will again bring up the issues in the international forums. I somewhere read that Dr. Kissinger suggests the King what books to read, and watching the King's brilliant move, i.e., internationalization of Nepal's internal politics to work in his and the country's favor, I think Kissinger did suggest some great reads to the King. Kaplan's Warrior Politics? |
| Biswo | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 10:17 AM
DWI, What was so pathetic in my remark? You don't have to be sorry to make any judgement over my posting. I just want it a bit more explained. Ashu, Wow. So you are working on some research piece, and you are in the process of formalizing a theory? I never fail to be amazed by some people who are so eager to write about what they are going to do in future, while producing not even a shred of evidence regarding that. My request to thse people: please kindly spare us about your proposed books, theories and other things. It will be wonderful if we know about them only after something significant has been done. Btw, your venomous remark to me[I'm sure it was directed at me] was uncalled for. I guess all those who don't agree with you are "chest-thumping from-the-village-to-the-best-of-univeristies-so-we-know--the-real-Nepal " and they are "arrogant as hell, inflexible, rigid, supercilious men ". Just by replacing village with city, I could have written same thing about you and describe you with the same epithets that you are hurling at others. If you read my comment carefully, I was critical of Girija Koirala's actions. In fact, I was also critical of other leaders of five parties and their character. I think if there is going to be an election this year which is possible if UML/RPP/Sadvabana supports Sher Bdr, everyone will participate, and that will solve a lot of our problems. If parties have guts, they need to make republicanism their agenda, and go to people in this election of 2061.If these people with republican agenda win overwhelmingly in the election, do the we-are-only-democrats, we-know-the-democracy type neodemocrats( sons of former pro-palace people who sent their kids to foreign countries, used their proximity to the palace to garner influence in the kingdom, and whose sons/daughters would have been in a lot better position if Panchayat was still around) have guts to support republicanism? |
| Biswo | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 10:22 AM
GPji, I was not angry. If you read carefully, my posting was more against leaders and their lack of character. I believe we know the king well , but time will tell if he changes his attitude. I don't think so. That was my point. Sooner or later, he or his son will try to meddle with the system. Anyway, does it matter if I give this govt time to work or not? NO. For god's sake, let's not be so serious about a POSTING in sajha. |
| DWI | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 10:36 AM
Biswo, Following your recent comments, it just seem that you are not presenting an unbiased observation. I see the hatred for king in each of you sentences and that's what bugged me. I don't support everything that has happened in the Royal palace but it seems you were blaming everything on the poor guy, no matter what he does. I wouldn't bother showing what sentence I felt were objectionable to me, but since I have read your other postings and find them pretty intelligent, I think it is worth showing you where you are going over board. Words like 'Evil King,' cannot come out of an educated analyst who is so knowledgeable about the affairs of the Kingdom. 'The loudmouth relatives,' 'Ex army generals,' c'mon that is just sounded like a whining by distraught being looking for dire revenge. But if I thought you were wrong on being too personal on King, then I guess I was wrong on being a little personal here myself. The criticisms were directed towards the words, not the writer. Isolated, Excellent points, again. |
| rbaral | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 10:38 AM
>If parties have guts, they need to make republicanism their agenda, >and go to people in this election of 2061. ONE: Making republicanism their agenda requires constitution ammendment. Are you suggesting them not abide by constitution?? >If these people with republican agenda win >overwhelmingly in the election, do the we-are-only-democrats, we-know-the->democracy type neodemocrats( sons of former pro-palace people who sent their kids >to foreign countries, used their proximity to the palace to garner influence in the >kingdom, and whose sons/daughters would have been in a lot better position if >Panchayat was still around) have guts to support republicanism? TWO: Survival of the fittest. Some were sent, others came in. It doesn't make you superior if you were sent, or if came on your own. The deciding factor is what you ARE, not what you went through. THREE: It is not a matter of guts, it is honesty and ethics. |
| ashu | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 10:43 AM
Biswo wrote: "Btw, your venomous remark to me[I'm sure it was directed at me] was uncalled for." Sorry to disappoint you, Biswo. But I was NOT talking about you. You are not even in Nepal at the moment nor do you figure prominently as a Koirala supporter. Please don't flatter yourself. If I were to talk about you, I could easily use your name and address you directly, hoina ta? What's there to stop me? And I can ask those questions quite sincerely with SOLID CONFIDENCE because the fact remains that on FIVE memorably different occasions on Sajha, everytime you (sometimes in tandem with others) had challenged my assertions by using -- NOT logic, NOT reason, NOT calmness -- but colorfully strong language towards me and my postings, the subsequent unearthing of the evidence did end up blowing up in your face, lending more credence to my assertions. If you wish, I'd be happy to list those occasions to refresh your memory. Meantime, relax. The postings on Sajha do (and need) NOT revolve around you or me. One can make general remarks, expecting them to be taken generally. Only an insecure idiot -- which you are not -- takes "general remarks" personally. Come, now, let's wish Deuba all the best. oohi ashu |
| Biswo | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 11:23 AM
Ashu, I always welcome those chance to refresh my memories. Please list them again. What are you going to talk about? Gyawali? Poet? Dixit? I don't need those empty threats. And no attempt to blackmail, ok? I am always amazed when you try to raise these issues in the threads which are completely unrelated, trying to scuttle the discussion at hand. Somehow, it looks like you still believe you were 'the winner', and you have some credit points there, which you can use all the time as long as sajha is here. I am just surprised at such attitude of a man who consider himself a democrat, an acadamic and an argumentator. Well, again,I guess this is the way things go in KTM. Also, I can list so many things against you also, but I don't want to engage in this mudslinging that has no end. I prefer our erudite sajhaites accomplish something real (You can impress only so many people for only so many years by talking about your future books/theories/researches/projects), and have critical thoughts, rather than follow convenient paths: to praise those around you to the extent you believe and perpetuate every lie they tell to you, to attack those bahuns who come from villages etc etc. Our sajha readers will be able to think better if they know bahuns from villages are often poor, powerless, and it is not fair to attack people with that background. Your first posting in this thread referred to people in sajha.com, and then you went on to make general remark. There were only a few postings critical of king before you wrote your posting. So, it was easy for me to 'flatter myself'.Anyway, who was that mythical bahun from village with the degree from top university abroad who is giving advices to Girija? I believe you are courageous enough to name some of those people you are attacking here. -- rbaralji: I am suggesting that these parties go to election, and present themselves as Republican, thus making this election (an unofficial) referendum on monarchy. -- DWIji: Unfortunately, I believed what I wrote about the king, some of his relatives and some of former army generals.Please, remember my words:these people will time and again try to stage a comeback , often in a crude way so that we all can see it very obviously, and the more strong the democracy becomes, the more they squirm. It is fair to disagree, even be harsh, but let's provide the sentences that we think were so pathetic that they deserved such harsh judgement. |
| Dr. Strangelove | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 11:26 AM
Ashu, touche! Great analysis and rebuttal!! I think we all should wait and see where the chips may fall before making nefarious comments about anybody. Let's see what Deuba does in the next few weeks with regard to his nomination of his cabinet members, the Maoist situation and his relationship with the rest of the agitating parties before dismissing him as another eunuch. Ashu, I am still waiting for my "nimtoh"!;) |
| Ram Prasad | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 11:47 AM
Guys.............don't fight.....Sajha is SAJHA....everybody has right to agree and disagree.....so don't dig in the past and say that "he said that" and "she said that"....I am not trying to defend and offend soembody but the thread seems intense....Nepal is ***ked up due to some opportunist.....I used to hope that some day everything will be fine and we will live happily ever after....but that is not coming soon......I used to pray for the good of Nepal but now I do it for myself.....I don't care who is PM or what not....just let me live with peace where ever I am........ This whole situation backs me not to go in Nepal...there is no stability....I wish I still feel the way I used to before when i said that "I AM FROM NEPAL" I don't have same enthusiasm (sp?) as before.......... Peace out guys........ |
| ashu | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 12:10 PM
Biswo, To use your own FAMOUS six-word phrase, that is, "if you read my comment carefully", you will discover that I was NOT talking about you. OK, maybe you did not read that. So let me repeat that. To use your own FAMOUS six-word phrase, that is, "if you read my comment carefully", you will discover that I was NOT talking about you. Hello? Got it? But, hey, if you insist on imagining yourself as the lead character in the contents of someone else's posting, well, then, be my guest. ***** Just so you know, my references to those "poet, Safa Tempo, Dixit, Gyawali and CVICT episodes are NOT "empty threats". Those are WELL DOCUMENTED episodes on Sajha, and, whether you like it or not, they add up to one PATTERN here. And that is: The way you handled those episodes - DESPITE verifiable evidence to the contrary of what you thought -- tell me that you may be brilliant on one hand, but, you know what, those FIVE different episodes tell me that intellectual honesty is simply NOT your cup of tea. Other than that, hey, you are free to call me anything you want if you think that helps feel that you have won this kura-kani. That's fine. Unlike some of our super-sensitive friends who turn idea-based criticisms into personal grudges, and who come here charging, to defend their fragile resume, let me simply shrug off your words as another set of your "loose cannon" statements, and live with that. Come, now, let's suppport Deuba to take this country forward. *********** Dr. Strangelove. I too am a Kubrick fan. How can I contact you, yaar? oohi ashu |
| Biswo | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 12:33 PM
Dear Ashu, Thanks for your comment. I will care about the charges of intellectual dishonesty from you in future when I see books, theories etc by you. Rightnow, this charge should point towards you. Respecting the feeling of other posters here, I want not to be personal against you, despite the fact you started with all sorts of epithets(since there seems to be no such bahun advisors of Girija). I also understand the benefit one accrues from defending 'till the last breathe people like Gyawali, Dixit etc while one is in KTM. [The convenience of aligning oneself with powerful bahuns of KTM while expressing anger infinitely against those powerless bahuns from villages sounds so cool, so reasonable, so intellectual, so non-communal, and so democratic especially when one is living in KTM, working for a NGO, and writing for a powerful-bahun-owned newspaper.] And that's fine with me. Like Emerson's famous quote, If someone lives a better life because of me, I guess that makes me a successful person. |
| bardan | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 12:51 PM
political play off the week.......divide and rule! |
| bardan | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 01:00 PM
biswo jee cool down,let girija do the jumpin and crying |
| nepali_angel | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 02:58 PM
"My INFORMAL impression is that Koirala's camp (in and out of Nepal) has a number of these chest-thumping from-the-village-to-the-best-of-univeristies-so-we-know--the-real-Nepal insufferable types (mostly bahuns) . . . most of whom end up being arrogant as hell, inflexible, rigid, supercilious men who can be charming to their superiors while being contemptuous of others, and who would put even Karl Rove to shame when it comes to using sneaky tactics to achieve their political aims. " What's your point? Doesn't mean a thing. To give you an example, in the US, the majority of republicans are Whites. Some people would describe Repubs just the way you describe Girija supporters, but all in all, it's just an unsubstantiated OPINION of yours. Inflexible? If you want to use subjective terms like these to paint a group with a broad brush, then go ahead, but it doesn't lend credence to your insinuation. About Karl Rove, some people think otherwise. It just depends on what side of the coin you're on. Some Repubs would describe Hillary Clinton just the way you describe Karl Rove. You can try backing up your claim with as many pieces of solid evidence as possible, but the fact will always remain that it's just an OPINION. So, I don't think anybody here should be flipping his/her lid just because of Ashu's opinion. |
| ashu | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 06:44 PM
Biswo, The issue here is NOT about Kathmandu ka bahuns and mofussils ka bahuns, though Girija happens to be surrounded by the latter whose arrogance and short-sightedness is driving their party to political irrelevance. The larger issue is how ANY bahun, with a dash of elite education, tends to be insufferably arrogant to the detriment of larger causes in Nepal. Were anyone else to say this very same thing this publicly, they would have been accused of racism and what not. But as a bahun myself, I reserve the right to occasionally and forcefully hold the mirror to my fellow bahuns (including myself) from everywhere and help keep their unwarranted arrogance in check. :-) I have found you to be intellectually dishonest BASED on verifiable FIVE separate episodes on Sajha, where you would not change your mind, let alone correct your wrong assertions, despite being shown EVIDENCE that proved you (and some of your cohorts) dead WRONG. Look, I wouldn't mind occasional lapses of judgment here and there, provided they are honestly accounted for, but five episodes do paint a disturbing pattern. And you need to be aware of it, while others need to have a CONTEXT to place your recent outburst as a contnuation of your other outbursts in the past: Whenever things don't go you way, you tend to go berserk, thereby genuinely puzzling/disturbing even your admirers, like you have done earlier in this thread. But you cannot -- in good conscience -- accuse me of the same things. Why? Because, as you well know, I started writing for a bahun-owned newspaper by criticising that very paper. Besides, I write primarily as an engaging hobby and to further my own career goals, and NOT to please or side with the bahun owners. And if you ever do visit my office, you will find that -- and I've just done the math -- 73 per cent of my regular clients are non-bahuns. And if you go to soc.culture.nepal and type "Dixit", you will find that I have been very critical of KD in the past. So, there Biswo. Nice try, but your charges against me do NOT stick at all. Or should we blame the king for all this to? Have a good day. Over here, we have another day of Chakka Jam Meantime, let's wish Deuba all the best. Nepali_Angel, you have said it best: "I don't think anybody here should be flipping his/her lid just because of Ashu's opinion." oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| An Indun Poet | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 06:57 PM
Ahsu, If you know this is 5th or 6th occasion, why are you wasting your ink. Doesn't make sense. You like it don't you. Ever heard about that joke where the a man goes to hunt a bear and kills one and another bigger bear...... :) |
| An Indun Poet | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 07:00 PM
On another note, I hope Girija as well supports Deuba this time which would make Deuba quite a strong PM. Gyane, our Maharajdhiraj, will have hard time throwing him off for the same reason. Can't punish Deuba for the same crime twice can he? |
| Epitome | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 07:09 PM
Comon, brothers and sisters, let us join hand to work towards stability, this vacum situation will not be in best interest of the nation. No blame games, enough energy is spent pulling legs, let us learn from our past mistakes, and assure ourselves that what ever happens will be in best interest of the nation. |
| sparsha | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 07:38 PM
What does the appointment of Sher Bdr. Deuba as the PM signify in present political context in Nepal is highly a subjective matter. Optimism like many other abstract concepts is a relative understanding. I recognize that. However, looking at the issues at our hand, I seriously doubt that Deuba is capable of delivering what a common citizen of Nepal expects from the position of the PM. PMship in Nepal has recently been reduced to a weak position. The position (PM) faces mountains of demands but has significantly limited resources to address them. This insufficient response creates more frustration and encourages citizens to look for the responses to their demands at other quarters. Political leadership in our nation is plagued by individual gratification and glorification. National consensus for nation building is restricted to rhetoric. Socio-economic situation of the nation is constantly in chaos and gradually heading south. As the socio-economic position is challenged for worse, political position takes the heat and flares up and offers a false sense of political crisis. Socio-economic instability is fueling the Maoist movement. Dialogue/ceasefire will not bring shelters, meals, and dignity for those desperate ones overnight. Arguably, Baburam/Prachanda and the company does not have the solution to Maoist issue. It perhaps may be naýve to expect from the people, who once ignited and spread the wildfire, to extinguish the raging fire as easily. There is no quick fix for the problems we are facing. Unless we can support and encourage dedicated (to national interests) political force that is willing to address the weakness in socio-economy with vigor, we are in for a whirlpool of uncertainty-irrespective of republic or monarchy. A person can do only so much, although leadership is essential. I am not sure if I should congratulate Deuba but my good wishes are with him. [My personal opinion] |
| Badmash | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 08:29 PM
Letýs face the fact! This nutcase Biswo characterýs sole agenda in every thread is to blow off the King. Be it a thread about a poem or politics, this demented character finds a way to do it. Now, not just that, he has started to slap, slam, and smear his relatives and ex military men and whose not. How did this obnoxious crackbrained zealot got into Rice with such perplexed, unbalanced, and opinionated perception? Apart from that, my congratulations and best wishes to PM Deuba! Letýs hope these hoodlum political party leaders will come to their senses and help seize this opportunity to pave a way to a peaceful democracy. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 11:26 PM
Ashu, A lot of time I am amazed by your ability to see 6, chant 6 loudly, make others say 6,for what is essentially 9. Personally, to me , to be a bahun is essentially a nothing: it is just a derivative of my sirname. To a lot of NGO wallahs with their own weird theories and ardent desire to come to a conclusion that suits their purpose of attracting foreign money, it is a root cause of everything that goes amiss in Nepal. So, when you write " chest-thumping from-the-village-to-the-best-of-univeristies-so-we-know--the-real-Nepal insufferable types (mostly bahuns) ." I can clearly see you are referring to bahuns from villages. Like Paschim or Biswo or others who disagreed with you in the past over what were definitely false assertions that you wanted sajha readers to accept as Brahma.baakya. I always wondered in the past what made you defend the statement of a Dixit which that Dixit himself repudiated? I hope it is not the hatred for a bahun from village. I always wondered what made you attack a sajhaite rather than attacking the opportunist Gyawali who made unproven claims, but I guess it is becoming pretty clearer to me. When you claim "The issue here is NOT about Kathmandu ka bahuns and mofussils ka bahuns" after pointing specifically to village ka bahun in your last posting, it was too late to cover your previous venom. Sorry, man. Dishonesty can take you only so far, and in this case, it was exposed immediately. And though I want you to be successful, I am afraid your claims of books/theorems are also going to be similarly exposed in the near future. Because what passes as 'acadamic'stuff among gyawalis of KTM is often nothing but a vast wasteland for the real acadamic world. Again, as I asserted, there was probably no one you were referring to as a bahun from village going to top university and advising Girija now. It is important to note that insecure person is not the one who thinks the general remark was pointed to him, it is the one who fails to make specific remark about anybody, and resorts to general, vague remarks so that he doesn't have to be accountable to those remarks. |
| Epitome | Posted
on 02-Jun-04 11:33 PM
Why we have to bear with all the grave digging and naked display of self ego |
| ashu | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 12:16 AM
Biswo, It's obvious that with that GENERAL REMARK, I touched a raw nerve somewhere there in you, ESPECIALLY in these sensitive times when Girija (and his cohorts) have just been made to look like dogs-in-the-manger type of idiots by the "evil King" and Deuba. I feel your pain, your anger, your frustration and therefore you atavistic need to LASH OUT at the "evil king" anyway and take even GENERAL REMARK personally. But give it a few days. It will pass. ******** You have asserted: "Like Paschim or Biswo or others who disagreed with you in the past over what were definitely false assertions that you wanted sajha readers to accept as Brahma.baakya." Biswo, you are BLUFFING , so let me call your bluff: Show our Sajha folks, who -- contrary to what you seem to think -- have a mind of their own and who can decide for themselves without any prompting from me or from you, a SINGLE instance on Sajha when your above statement stands correct. Go ahead, do it, and provide the appropriate links for all to judge for themselves. If not, then, the only casuality here is your credibility. oohi ashu |
| Biswo | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 12:53 AM
Ashu, I know , on the contrary, that some people were offended that I would criticize their great king, in whose regime they would have rejoiced the best of the whole worlds[for example: their dai/bhais becoming ministers without having to win a single popular vote], and somehow fail to provide unqualified support for the new PM who was, it seems, appointed arbitrarily and , as lawyers in today's Kantipur termed it, unconstitutionally. -- When I questioned your assertion about Gyawali, the way you attacked me , the way you keep on attacking me until now, tells me one thing: that you want me and others who have inquisitive mind to believe everything you say: in the other words, take your words as brama.baakya (infallible). Failing to do so means (i) you conveniently assume yourself as a victor in the 'debate' (ii) you unfailingly keep on bringing that in every other debate, because you think you 'won' those debates (iii) you will keep on using such 'victories' as credit points that could be used to scare me from expressing different views on divers subjects for the rest of the time this Sajha is here, ( and probably this will spill outside Sajha world too). ---- Yes, you are trying to be more mild-mannered recently, especially in comparison to those 'safa tempo' days when you tried to unwarrantedly assail me. But, it is increasingly becoming clearer to me that your cyberworld overlaps with the real world, you carry over grudges of cyberworld infinitely, and those grudges become evident in places that are often completely irrelevant to the matter at hand. I am appalled to think of a scenario where every sajhaite does so, harboring resentment infinitely, and waiting for payback time. In stead of creating a good civil society of Nepali, sajha then will be a breeding ground for eternal enmity among Nepali around the world. One can shudder at the thought of Nepali politics if such sajhaites become political leaders of future. Thankfully, I know a lot of sajhaites who can handle discussions in a civil way, and there is , really, no need to worry. |
| GP | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 05:20 AM
If it was real world chat, Biswo and Ashu must be punching each other in ring whistled by "An Idun Poet". There will be two sides booing the wary parties: Ashu Team---" chest-thumping from-the-METRO-TOWN-to-the-best-of-univeristies-so-we-know--the-real-Nepal insufferable types (mostly bahuns) ." Biswo Team--" chest-thumping from-the-VILLAGE-to-the-best-of-univeristies-so-we-know--the-real-Nepal insufferable types (mostly bahuns) ." Yes, there is a division atleast in Kathmandu that it matters whether you come (current generation) from outside KTM or greater KTM. This kind of division is clearly visible in every walk of life among Nepalis and its not only among Bahuns. Its not only a syndrome that exists among Nepalis, its elsewhere too e.g. in Japan "City Boy" vs "V-Boy". City boys mostly feel insecured and keep on humiliating V-boys by calling "V-boy", it really is humiliating when C-boys use "V-boy". V-boys who come from Village are little or more in-experienced to handle their anger and are straight forward, were not trained to handle anger using better word, proper selection of words "kill two birds with one stone". After coming to US, I realized how my colleagues are so much fund of selecting an appropriate word to mean what he means, and when he does not mean, he knows how to use the word more vaugely so that you can twist the sentance as you like. Anyway, selection of word matters, Biswo ji. To make peoples chant 6 to 9 is ability in this world. Biswo ji, you must control your anger in using collection of words, and your weakness in my experience lies over there. Since Ashu comes from Metro City, he should have not used that phrase by putting himself on the otherside of the red hot line in C vs V divisions. Well, when I was kid my Pokhara was a village and now its town, not a metro city, so I am in gray zone. Well, some relatives when they come from dada-kada around Pokhara, my fellow toles call them "Pakhe" "V-boys" . So, I am in gray zone, hehehehehe..... you believe it or not, thats not my problem. Have fun. GP |
| GP | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 05:25 AM
Why ? City boys mostly feel insecured ... Because more and more peoples migrate to cities and the importance of old Khandaniya in Metro are over run by new migrants and they find losing importance of new C-Boys. There needs a way to pretend to be a smart guy, thats by turning someone's history, though they usually say who you were does not matter, but, in practice it matters. Haina ta? GP |
| ashu | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 05:45 AM
Biswo, You SPECIFICALLY wrote this about me: "Like Paschim or Biswo or others who disagreed with you in the past over what were definitely [FALSE] assertions that you wanted sajha readers to accept as Brahma.baakya." I said if that is so, then prove it, and asked you to BACK UP your claim with evidence. You did NOT and could NOT do so. In other words, you made charges against me WITHOUT bothering to back them up with evidence. This, my dear friend, damages your own credibility. **** I brought up the past five episodes -- NOT out of grudges for you -- but to inform other puzzled Sajha friends that there is indeed a well-worn CONTEXT to understanding your occasional irrational outbursts. And that is, once you make up your mind about something, you become so goddamn rigid about it that there is NO persuading you otherwise NO MATTER WHAT the counter-evidence is . . . much like, I dare say, trying to persuade Girija of a different viewpoint based on stronger evidence. Other than making this point loud and clear (WITH EVIDENCE), let me say that I harbor no ill-feelings toward you, and this this has been just another day in this very interesting rough-and-tumble world of Sajha.com. oohi ashu |
| lalubhai | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 07:05 AM
Biswo Ji, Please calm down. You are getting angry. Ashu ji has outwitted and outsmarted you in this thread, . Learn to accept defeat and better luck in some next thread. From your postings you sound like, "I know it all and I am right" kind of guy. You appear to possess a lot of anger. Probably you are a real desh premi and the mess in Nepal is generating more and more of that anger. That makes total sense. But shouldn't a suva~chintak and a raja birodhi like you be in the streets or the jungles of nepal with your brothers? Perhaps spill all that anger in Ratna Park or somewhere in Dolpa. You would gain more from that. May be you have similar future plans. If so ..good luck. Wish you all the best in the next thread. |
| rbaral | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 07:07 AM
Good luck to Sher Bahadur Deoba. Hope peace comes to our country. >I brought up the past five episodes -- NOT out of grudges for >you -- but to inform other puzzled Sajha friends that there >is indeed a well-worn CONTEXT to understanding your >occasional irrational outbursts. Dear Ashu- Your bringing up of past five episodes in itself is an outstanding proof that how much of grudges you have. But, stand up, and accept the truth. Don't live in denial. Accepting a defeat will only make you taller. That is the only way to grow. Good luck!! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 07:22 AM
GP-jyu wrote: "Yes, there is a division atleast in Kathmandu that it matters whether you come (current generation) from outside KTM or greater KTM. This kind of division is clearly visible in every walk of life among Nepalis and its not only among Bahuns. Its not only a syndrome that exists among Nepalis, its elsewhere too e.g. in Japan "City Boy" vs "V-Boy". City boys mostly feel insecured and keep on humiliating V-boys by calling "V-boy", it really is humiliating when C-boys use "V-boy". V-boys who come from Village are little or more in-experienced to handle their anger and are straight forward, were not trained to handle anger using better word, proper selection of words "kill two birds with one stone"." Yes, GP-ji, there is a clear division between these two groups in Nepal. Its sad and its bad, but it's there and probably this is the reason we have a saying "manche herera kura garnu, deuta herera puja garnu" . You are right about the choice of words too. However, its not the only factor. There are other factors too, which you have to take into consideration when you try to understand this division and EXPOSURE is certainly one factor you have to take into consideration when trying to understand this "sad" truth. Cities are big so when you are growing up in a city, you are always interacting/seeing/dealing with 20000 different types of people, and this obviously prepares you for the real world from your childhood. Since its not a clan/tribe/etc. confined area, you meet people from all over Nepal and on your occassional visits to no-matter-where within the city, you see foreigners from Sweden to Sri-Lanka, and you soon realize that the world is big and there are many people in Nepal and the world, who do not look like you, who do not do the things you do and who do not speak your language. Unless you grow up in Lukla, Namche, Annapurna areas or other touristic areas , I don't think our village kids have the oppurtunity to see and interact with different types of people. Now this is a sad truth: If you are exposed to differences from earlier on, you learn that differences exist and you come to accept it all your life. If you are not, you end up comparing the closed envioronmnet you were growing up to the place you are in right now, and sometimes this creates a huge huge confusion. William Taubman, who won this year's Pulitzer Prize for non-fiction for his biography on Khruschev, "Khrischev: The Man and His Era" while describing Nikita Khruschev's "strange" behaviors writes: "You could take Khruschev out of Kalinovka, but you couldn't take Kalinovka out of Khruschev" . Training is yet another factor. I am not saying our village schools are bad. Actually, many of our finest scholars came from outside Kathmandu. Its very hard to explain but here's a shot: Almost everyone who makes it to the outside world from a village is a genius. He does well in his classes, tests, comes to kathmandu and flies away.. and no matter where he ends up, takes "kalinovka" with him. Since he is a village genius, and nobody questioned him or his assertions or his anwers when he was growing up, and since he did fairly well in the classess to come to kathmandu and then to fly abroad, he comes to think of himself as "always-right", othrwise he wouldn't have ended up whereever he is now. Growing up, he was his teacher's pet who would always do good on tests, work hard and the villages being small, a village star for his brilliance and his knowledge of the outside world. Its not his mistake, actually he has every rights to think of himself as a genius because he is one and he was made to feel like one, the only thing is: due to the lack of exposure and to a certain extent, the envioronmnet he grew up in, makes him think that everyone in the world, no matter where he ends up, should have high regards for him and his ideas like the people back in the small village of Kalinovka.He is like Al Pacino's character in Donny Brasco who says, "I am always right even when I am wrong". And you know there are many people in the world who might not have a colorful from this village to Oxford resume, but are equally smart and intelligent and who have the ability to question Mr. Kalinovka's narrow- views whenever its necessary. And he has to be prepared for it, instead of repeating that Al Pacino line, hoina ta? based on my reading of the first 2 chapters of Khruschev. 550+ pages to go!! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 07:38 AM
And GP ji, I don't question your experience because you are much experienced, knowledgable and have seen more of the world than I have, but I do disagree when you say, " Because more and more peoples migrate to cities and the importance of old Khandaniya in Metro are over run by new migrants and they find losing importance of new C-Boys." because: People migrate. If the V kids migrate to the cities, the C-Kids migrate to other countries. Otherwise, imagine how populated our cities will be. When the Indian Sociologists tried hard to theorize the Indian society, they came up this theory: There's Westernization and Sanskritization happening in Indian society(-ies). People in the cities mostly from the upper and middle classes tend to Westernize, and the people from other areas tend to Sanskritize. If we move a step ahead, we can say, westernization eventually leads to migration to other countries, Sanskritization leads to migration to teh cities, whichelads to Westernization and which leads to migration. We all follow the same pattern. And this, you can apply to udnerstand any society, as far as my little thinking goes. |
| Dr. Strangelove | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 07:39 AM
RBaral, who appointed you the judge to procalim that Ashu has lost and should accept defeat graciously? I think in this onslaught of acrimonious exchange of words between Ashu and his Holiness, Ashu has been the one who has tried to keep some decorum of civility. "Rancour is that degree of malice which preys upon the possessor." ---Cogan. Sparsha, "There is no quick fix for the problems we are facing. Unless we can support and encourage dedicated (to national interests) political force that is willing to address the weakness in socio-economy with vigor, we are in for a whirlpool of uncertainty-irrespective of republic or monarchy. A person can do only so much, although leadership is essential. I am not sure if I should congratulate Deuba but my good wishes are with him. " I whole-heartedly agree with your above statement. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 07:40 AM
Also, the people who migrate to the cities are the best and the brightest, and the c-kids who migrate to other countries are also the best and the brightest. So, there's always a balance. hoina? |
| nispaksha | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 07:47 AM
Girija and Biswo: Are both rigid? Seems so. Are both wrong? Not so. Girija is WRONG and Biswo is not. Girija's regidity is result of shrewed political tricks while Biswo's apperant regidity is, as I can see, a result of his intelectual convictions finely brewed with powerful logic. Biswo ji keep the CHITAUNE spirit live...there is no match for you in Sajha. Saying so, I am not taking a side in this Ashu Vs Biswo show. I enjoy reading both of these sajha stars. However, I find the arguments of Ashu (and few other of his ilk) standing nowhere when they try to engage Biswo or Nepe on the issue of Monarchy. Talking politics is not only about ability playing with words and phrases. It is more about one's conviction and intelectual honesty. As GP ji rightly put, Kathmandu's social environment does not provide incentives to preserve such noble attributes. Truely Nispaksha -------------------------- |
| GP | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 08:11 AM
IF ji, the migration continues and C-Boy vs V-boy is also a relative term. When a Nepali C-Boy migrates to worlds leading metropolitan cities, he himself feel like a V-boy, so many things to learn. Its a relative term. Its like Tanahu ko jilla savapati ko chhora going to KTM and becoming Akhile and giving bhasad of freedom who upon returning to Tanahu behaves completely opposite what he was preaching in KTM's colleges. I remember how the guys from Delhi segregated themselves away from other guys when I was in UOR, India. I saw similar trend when I was in Thailand: guys from Bangkok and outside BKK, and same trend in Japan: Tokyo vs Osaka vs outside these places. Now, I could see it here in US: north (Yankee) vs south (cow boys).............. So, lets stop here and come back to the topic. I will say that after you have knowledge, you need to have better words to assemble the words like in puzzle pieces. Hoki Hoina la bhanam ta. GP |
| rbaral | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 08:11 AM
Dr. Strangelove >Baral, who appointed you the judge to procalim that Ashu has >lost and should accept defeat graciously? Is it a pouch of venom? Do you care to read the *read* or just stick to the writer? If a mild suggestion to your ilk has riled you so much, what can I say? If making an observation makes you a judge, what would your sidelining make you? Does this need further explanation?? >I think in this onslaught of acrimonious exchange of words between >Ashu and his Holiness, Ashu has been the one who has tried to >keep some decorum of civility. Obviously, you have decided to support one of the partners who you admit is engaged in "acrimonous exchange of words". |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 08:13 AM
So, lets stop here and come back to the topic. I will say that after you have knowledge, you need to have better words to assemble the words like in puzzle pieces. Ekdamai ho.. bidhya dadati binayam bhanchan.. the more polite you are, the better you are with words, the more educated you are ni.. la ta guruji, aaja yeti matrai Hahoo garau! |
| rbaral | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 08:21 AM
Isolated Freak, Could not resist the temptation to add the missing words on your--"bidhya dadati binayam". The others that follow are - binayaat yaati paatratam. |
| mildseven | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 09:00 AM
ashu, forget getting any answers from Biswo. He is good for one thing and one thing only. Chanting like a parrot, the king is evil. the past kings were evil. the future kings are going to be evil. Ask him why he says that and a lot of other things w/o backing them up, he'll say BP Koirala told him, how can it be untrue :-) amazing |
| Biswo | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 09:08 AM
Ashu, This is what I like about you: you just fail to read sentences carefully, and rush to judge others. In this thread, I asked you to name the putative bahun, you didn't. You claimed you could hurl slurs to bahuns because you are one of them. But, we all know you didn't hurl slurs to bahuns, your target was bahuns from villages to the top universities. So, this was disingenous argument. Right in this thread. When I gave context to how you treat dissenting voices, [that incidentally makes you so cozy with other bigot royalists of the town] and how you want others to take your sentences like bramabaakya,you jumped to conclusion that you won this race again. It gives me immense pleasure to satisfy individuals who live in such a fragile state of emotion, who needs victory so much, who harbor grudges for years and years, who issue empty threats whenever they start to lose arguments and yet, eternally, believe that they are the real democrat in a mission to save Nepali intellectual world. I wish you goodluck. |
| ashu | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 09:54 AM
Biswo: Thank you for your good wishes. I appreciate them. Thank you too for performing such a gripping psychoanalysis. I enjoyed reading it. Thanks to you, I now understand myself better. I did not even know that I happen to be "cozy with other bigot royalists of the town", and much else besides. My god, I am truly concerned now: What else, Biswo, is there in my life that I should know about FROM YOU? As I read somewhere: How someone behaved in the past in a PATTERN-forming manner (through five different episodes with similar conclusions, in your case) is a GOOD PREDICTOR of how that person is likely to behave now and in the future. oohi "To quote: in a mission to save Nepali intellectual world" ashu |
| SITARA | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 09:55 AM
I do not understand the displeasure brought on by Biswo's use of the word "evil" when referring to King G. If "good", the antonym of "evil" is applicable in politics, why isn't evil? Going back to the history of King G and Prince Paras, what have the "GOOD" rulers done to facilitate the application of such adjectives? Both have yet to prove themselves as "good", "wonderful", "giving", "self-less"....DIVINE before analytical minds can accept those terms. In retrospect, a close inspection of both the royalties' past track-records leave much to be desired. Semantics don't lend credibility to monarchy, actions do. I fail to understand the uproar; perhaps, I cannot comprehend the monarchists' passive leaning toward the "divine rights" of the "constitutional (?)" king to play with the country, the people, the coffers and the people of Nepal. Erase history and get on with it, or repeat it in blissful faith?! Understandably, some of us are looking toward the betterment of our country, hoping against hope that King G will metamorph into the "good king" of "evil times" but, even more understandable is the fact that there are many of us who would prefer to tread cautiously given the recent murder of King B's family and the ensuing dark , political, suspicious days. Scepticism is allowed in politics, you know! |
| RBaral | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 10:16 AM
Sitara's observaton is categorical, to the point, and articulate. |
| Binay | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 10:20 AM
When I first heard the news, I thought Sher Bahadur Deua was "reinstated"; which, one way or another, implies that the King's decision to sack the elected government was unconstitutional in the first place. But after reading the following news, it looks like the King still doesn't get it. He is appointing just another "Bahadur" (after Lokendra Bahadur, Surya Bahadur..) to serve his purpose--that too "unconstitutionally". http://www.newsofnepal.com/ffstory.asp?sn=3 Biswo, I agree with some of the points you made on the King and his bhai-bhardars. But, letýs face it. It is the very ineptness of these political party leaders that provided the space for the King to meddle with the constitution (I hope I donýt have to cite examples). It is so pity that the five political parties didn't have the guts to stick with their original demand (i.e., the end of the regression) to the end. What is clear from the latest political drama that the King somehow managed to show the world that all the protests of the five political parties were merely for the PM post, not against the unconstitutional move he made in October 2002. I think that even their 18-point demands, the one Girija was insisting on, would NOT have corrected the regressionýif you read those demands carefully, those are basically calling for the Kingýs mercyýthere is nothing about the constitutional rights of the elected government and the King. They should have had just two demands (i.e., take back the decision to sack the Deua Cabinet and the Kingýs right to sack any elected government unconstitutionally). One great opportunity missed. And, from what I have read so far, the way Sher Bahadur Deua is appointed is still unconstitutional. There is no guarantee that the King will NOT sack him again, whenever and whatever the way King wants it. This also means that the King still has a feudal mindset and the PM post for him is nothing more than appointing his KARINDAs. Comýn he gave just a 32 hours (?) deadline to name the PM? Isnýt it interesting to realize that it requires a 36 hours deadline to hire a LEKHAAPAAL or KARINDA in Nepal. Well, so much for the "CEO-style leadership" of the King, which has been cited many times as the only high hope left for Nepal by some ýbusiness-mindedý PHATICHARs and freaks. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 10:28 AM
Ashu, > Thank you too for performing such a gripping psychoanalysis. It was my pleasure. Since you are serving me by performing my 'psychoanalysis' based on those pattern forming five episodes, I thought it was incumbent upon me to return the favor. >I did not even know that I happen >to be "cozy with other bigot royalists > of the town", and much else besides. Well, why not try a gate-crashing to a royalist party sometimes? You will probably be amazed by the incessant clapping they would provide you. Seriously, please don't pretend. You threw those whole lot of remarks against me because I said 'evil king', otherwise, I don't see anything in my first post to provoke anyone. And in sajhapur, if you look at the postings above, all disreputable royalists have come to assail me in this thread. They find you so charming, and I also saw how you felt there was a need to forge alliance with them. -- Sitara, Evil king was an adjective to the king who is the corruption-in-chief, good for nothing pinhead, who just licked his own spit by appointing Sher Bdr Deuba, because he ran out of other options. Those people who don't have demostrable acadamic acumen, or popular support often find it good to support the autocrat of that country, because that remains the only way for them to get good posts. When I look at the people around the king, I find that they are jokers. Just some days ago, I heard Rajeshwar Devkota claimed he was leader of 39 parties so he should be made PM. Mr Devkota, who said 2046 ko jana-andolan was staged not by Nepali and would have dissipated had it been crushed, was repeatedly rejected by people of Nepal in several past elections. The situation is so pathetic that I am sure absolute majority of Nepali, and probably sajhaites, can't even name one of those 39 parties. So, these jokers , along with their leader king, once wanted to run Nepal like their fiefdom. A full circle later, they are now hoping Sher Bdr can save them. Can he? I doubt. |
| Biswo | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 10:38 AM
Binay, I agree with you, and if you read my first posting, I have written that any agitation can go only so far with the leaders like these. Girija wouldn't be magnanimous enough to give the PM post to Madhav Nepal, though I don't think Gyanendra would have appointed Madhav Nepal. This man is a man of division, and a problem, not a man who can unite people and provide solution. But, let's face it, they are as good as it gets for us rightnow. King, Bahadurs, etc.etc. can't save us from the menace of terrorism, because they don't have popular support to counter the Maoists. When RNA goes to villages to flush out the terrorists, it is like an elephant crossing a river, it can go anywhere, it can cross the river, the terrorists will , like water, let it step on wherever it wants and leave the space for it, but eventually, the elephant has to cross the river and the river remains as if it had never been disturbed. We need the dam made up of political organizations to stop the river and harness it to use. The dam can be bad, it may have possibility to be damaged and cause even more damage, but it is the best hope in harnessing the water. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 10:38 AM
aaiya, reading sitara jyu's postings always help me learn new words and concepts. Just to make it easier for others to understand so that noone starts a new thread on Sitara , let me translate your post into saral angreji, so that we all benifit from your posting.. hai? (kaam chaina k garne?.. and in this heat, I don't wnat to leave this nice ACed lab). This is for pure selfish reason.. helps me udnerstand angreji more.. jay hos dictionary.com ko! jaya sambhoo.. mangalam bhagwaan bishnu, mangalam garudodhwaja, mangalam pundarikakshya, mangalaya tanohari.. bhandai suru garam.. "I don't udnerstand why people are pissed/angry/not-so-happy with Biswo's use of word "evil" when referring to King G. If good, the opposite of "evil" is allowed/can be used in Politics, why can't "evil" be used? Looking at the past behaviors of both King G and Paras, what have they done to make us call them good? So far, both have done nothing concrete which makes us- the people who can think and analyze- to call them good. Looking back, both of their records make us think otherwise. Language/Words don't necessarily make the monarchy good, actions do. I don't udnerstand what people are angry about: maybe I don't udnerstand the Monarchists' passive (opposite of active, ho?) tilt tworad or the support of the holy rights that lets the institution do whatever it pleases with the people and the country. Forget history and support the monarchy or just repeat the history cheerfully [this I didn't udnerstand]. No surprise that some of us (again who is this us?) want better for our country, and hope that the King changes into a good king of the bad times, but more than that, there are some of us, who would like to walk with "extreme" caution given the recent regicide and the days it lead to. Questioning is allowed in politics, you know. kati number paiyo miss? just jiskeko hai.. not to be takiens eriously.. kam chaina..k garne.. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 11:00 AM
IF ji: Yes! I do love your humor, which you use with such leisure and lazy charm! 90% in literal/objective translations and 200% in NOT attempting to mis-represent/tilt/bend what I wrote. :P Ma ta hajur ke garne, I lack finess and patience in writing and therefore resort to the shortest and laziest methods of communitations: pointlessly to the point! Those days of "reference to context"/intro/body/conclusions are way beyond my intellectual capacity. Ke garne, tyahi pani politics ma lekhna hath chilaihalcha, tyam tyam ma... life is like that, hoina ta! hehe! |
| SITARA | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 11:02 AM
communications* |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 11:03 AM
Now having translated to make sure that I understood everything, let me post my quick coments/remarks on Sitara's views: First of all, why not call them good? What harm have they caused to the nation or the people so far? Can you name a single incident that can corroborate your claim that King hasn't done anything good so far? Since, you seem to know a lot about the King's past , would you care mentioning some "juicy" incidents from that so we all think the way you do? Please. Also, what makes you think that everyone in Nepal today who supports the King is dumb/lacks an anlytical mind .. and his mtive is to maximize his interests? Can't people be eqaully smart like you and your friends and still support the King? What makes you think that its only those people who are skeptical of the King are hoping for the betterment of the country? Can't I be supportive of the King and hope for the country's betterment at the same time (although i am have a mind that is as analytical as your's and some of your friends)? Nobody knows what exactly happened behind the closed doors 3 years ago, but the reports etc. all say what many people say, so I don't think there is any reason to even suspect foul play. Anyways, my point is: Why do you tend to think that only the people who oppose the monacrhy hope for the betterment of the country? Do you think we have to have the same views all the time, and as long as we have the same views on politics? I don't know.. healthy criticism is allowed in politics and questining is allowed but there's awlays a civilized way to do it, hoina? You don't have to scream nor use outright offensive words to prove your point or make your dissent heard, or is it? namaste. anyways, |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 11:05 AM
Now having translated to make sure that I understood everything, let me post my quick coments/remarks on Sitara's views: First of all, why not call them good? What harm have they caused to the nation or the people so far? Can you name a single incident that can corroborate your claim that King hasn't done anything good so far? Since, you seem to know a lot about the King's past , would you care mentioning some "juicy" incidents from that so we all think the way you do? Please. Also, what makes you think that everyone in Nepal today who supports the King is dumb/lacks an anlytical mind .. and his mtive is to maximize his interests? Can't people be eqaully smart like you and your friends and still support the King? What makes you think that its only those people who are skeptical of the King are hoping for the betterment of the country? Can't I be supportive of the King and hope for the country's betterment at the same time (although i am have a mind that is as analytical as your's and some of your friends)? Nobody knows what exactly happened behind the closed doors 3 years ago, but the reports etc. all say what many people say, so I don't think there is any reason to even suspect foul play. Anyways, my point is: Why do you tend to think that only the people who oppose the monacrhy hope for the betterment of the country? Do you think we have to have the same views all the time, and as long as we have the same views on politics? I don't know.. healthy criticism is allowed in politics and questining is allowed but there's awlays a civilized way to do it, hoina? You don't have to scream nor use outright offensive words to prove your point or make your dissent heard, or is it? namaste. anyways, will buy you coffee this summer.. you know you can always ask me to buy you chiso chiso carlsebrg beer..anything you say, mam.. See you in Kathmandu soon. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 11:07 AM
supportive of the King and hope for the country's betterment at the same time (although i am have a mind that is as analytical as your's and some of your friends)= supportive of the King and hope for the country's betterment at the same time (although i don't have a mind that is as analytical as your's and some of your friends) |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 11:09 AM
as long as we have the same views on politics= as long as we have the same views on politics we are friends and as soon as we differ we are enemies? |
| SITARA | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 11:09 AM
OK, IF ji: I take back the 200%! :( You READ MORE than necessary in my words and interpreted info not available in the paragraph I wrote! GTG...kilass time! will write later! :) |
| lalubhai | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 11:11 AM
Some will simply not give up. Just like Girija Prasad!! :) hint.. hint.... |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 11:13 AM
well, miss, angreji is not my matri bhasa and its not unusual for me to misread at times. my apologies for making you go over that and making you type a clarification. k garne galti bhayecha.. kya bore.. yo class ma ni FAIL... |
| NSShrestha | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 01:04 PM
If one thinks it is a politicide of Girija Koirala, then we should say Mitra-Ko-Rajnaitik-Darshan/Darpan-Adhyarai-Rahechha. Actually Girija Koirala had never been more right. Premiership was non issue then and non issue now. Sher Bahadur is just a third (non-panch) Bahadur. It was the easiest way out for the king, other two being to bow down to eighteen points of five parties or to be more regressive. Soverienty still remains with the king. The real loser here is UML. Having chewd the village comrades by Maoist, they are on the verge of losing city comrades to other Sana Bam Party. It is high time for Girija Koirala to ride with high tide of pro-republican forces. Rajniti lai suddha baghchal ko khel matra manera maharaj ko hareko chaal lai wah wah garne ho bhane, susikhcchit-kathmandu-bhitar-ka-bramhan ra asikcchit-kathmandu-itar-ka-indrachowk-ka-bhariya bich ko antar dristogochar garna telescope kai sahara linu naparla bhanna sakinaa. Astu. :) |
| andolan_61 | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 01:23 PM
Nsshrestha, I totally agree with you. It's high time for pollitical party and they should stick with 18 point political agenda. I am so surprised that king appointed most dirty, greedy, oppertunist charracterless guy as Priminister however he was looking clean image. What a Joke? Sher Bahadur's activites during his student's political life as well as priminter's era: 1) fall in sexual propaganda with Jyoti ( forget her last name) in Nebi sangh. 2) He was thinking about joining panchayat policits so that Kishun ji sent him to England for higher study in political seat. 3) He sent more than dozen MP to singapore to save his priministership. 4) He proposed parliament to increase the salary and allowance of MP when he was leader of ruling Party. 4 ) He let tax free Pajero Culture. 5) He opened new Party with the support of most corrupt guys in nepali politics ( Khum Bahadur, Chiranjibi and Bal Bahadur) Could someone enlighten me that sher bahadur is clean image guy. I don't know what Gyane means clean image |
| SITARA | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 03:07 PM
IF ji: Darshan, again! I'll make it brief as I do not have the capacity to go line by line or word by word. To answer: -First, dare I spout anti king sentiments on his past non-king hey day crimes; dare I, dare I.... would that make me stupid or brave?... interesting question that many go through, I'm sure. The proof lies in the pudding, not in the paw marks! -Second, dare I claim to know the king better than you know him?...Naah! ye hajur, the royal shadows never graced our dinner tables! -Third, you know all those "saboot bina ko" HEARSAY of smugglings by the royalties and the two killings by a young drunk prince... should we believe or not... what a quandry, such a dilemma, they were never brought to court were they?! Well, who dares bring the divinities to trial... somebody who has the power of the law right? But who does hold both the law and the power in the palms of his hand? -Fourth, the royal murders: since when did murder occur out of natural consequences and not foul play? You mean foul play by King G and his family.... well, were they ever brought to court, hajur IF ji? Do remind me of the "internal investigations" of the murders, they were very "internal" while the rest of the country were in gag order. -Fifth, your defensive and "extreme scepticism" (to use your words) made you question my use of the term " desiring betterment" of the country by monarchists, IT was meant as just that... ye hajur, don't remake or fix what was not broken.... read it as it was written, understand it as you read it! -Sixth, the appointment of Deuba and the previous dismantling of his cabinet just goes on to prove what a King CAN do, when the mood strikes; squander money in cars, elaborate felicitations, b'day parties....you could add to the list, you know him better :) -Seventh, this is most important for me: You may always be a monarchist and I will vacillate between choosing a CONSTITUTIONAL monarch and/or a republic... whatever it may be, I would still choose to walk away from any disagreements/discussions with a warm handshake and a smile on my face! ***************** I would not fail you but ask you to rethink my position! :) |
| mack | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 06:26 PM
Sitara run for an office I will campaign for you for free. I just want to make a quick comment: Sajha micro politics (this particular thread) seem nothing more than just an identical twin, or if you will, a sample of the Kathmandu politics which is plagued with leaders hypnotized by their personal agenda and personal gain, all those so called ýtop leadersý interested in securing a high government position, with no desire to service the country even at the subconscious level have no concept of serving the country without becoming a prime minister, or without taking a high government position. The reason I say that this thread is a sample of the Kathmandu politics is: although most of the contributions were quite praise worthy, later comments by most of the authors proved themselves not more than crazy hypocrites. Many of you engaged yourself in personal accusations followed by sharp retributions consequently the ýgreat mindsý (which I originally thought) transform into little guys with ýsmall penisý complex. I was hoping that this thread would become a platform for a pure democratic political discourse but instead it became a platform of self promotion. In other words most of you have tried to prove yourself that you have moral and intellectual superiority over others, and tried to secure a celebrity status in this forum. Ridiculous. After all itýs always quite a challenge to give up or change bad old habits. |
| ashu | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 07:06 PM
Biswo, Just to keep the record straight: The five episodes I cited are WELL DOCUMENTED on Sajha. So well documented that let us not forget that one person -- not you -- had no choice but to hit back at me not with proofs but with sneaky tactics, which only left HIM exposed. Likewise, you bluffed. I called your bluff, and you have not answered your person-specific charges. But let's not get tangled in that. ***** The trouble I have with republicans such as Biswo is that they always TALK about the world AFTER the King is thrown out, after the monarchy ends. In this, they are like the Maoists, forever living in the FUTURE and NOT dealing with the present. I say that because the PRESENT reality is this: Whether you like him or not, the King is there. He exists. He may indeed be evil. But he is a player. And he is going to make moves to his advantage, as he has repeatedly done. How difficult is it to grasp this? Simply closing your eyes, calling the king evil and wishing him away is NOT going to solve any problem. And you don't have to be pro-King or anti-King to say this. All you have to be a realist. The question is: What have the political parties, led by Girija, done ANYTHING to outsmart, outwit and corner the king? NOTHING. They had their chance. They have repeatedly blown it due to their own intransigence. And in doing so, they have squandered the goodwill they had, they have abused their karya-kartas' trust and basically wasted everyone's time for the last two months, if not more. If these guys can't even run a focussed andolan, would you trust them to run anything that requires focus? Now the King, a player in this game, however hated or liked he is, has made his move, and these guys, led by the intransigent Girija cry foul and run all around the place. Give me a break! The king is a player. He wants to play. He has made that abundantly clear. The challenge before the parties is to agree on a way to strategically limit the playing field of the king for now, and rein him in. oohi ashu |
| qallu | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 07:48 PM
yes, ashu, looks like you touched some raw nerves, unwittingly I agree with you. as they say, chor ko kutta kat. what can you do? but i am also baffled that you are still even bothering to respond to biswo who has gotten increasingly obnoxious, pompous, myopic, and uncivil in this thread. Also, isn't it intriguing that we find reasons to excuse biswo's use of the term "evil," yet i remember when dubya used it, it was labelled archaic, simplistic, fundamentalist, and hawkish.... well, that goes to show ya, double standards jinda bad! |
| OZ_GUY | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 08:13 PM
I have not gone through a lot of mudslinging in this thread. Having read a number of threads in this topic focussed at discrediting each other, I almost lost desire to read on. I do not know either of the figures in this heated discussion, and hence have no intention to form any premature opinion on these two persons personally. I can only comment on what's written in this thread. I 100% agree with Ashu's latest posting above. Actually, what have these inept, politicians led by Girija done to actually outsmart the king. I read it once somewhere the king talking with a reporter that the politicans are so inconsistent in what they speak and are mudslinging at each other in the private audience with the king that they would be embarrassed if the king actually revealed who said what to all the politicians in a group. Girija can not withstand Makune as PM. He tries to portray to everybody that there is no need to send a common candidate to the palace after failing to establish himself as a candidate for PM. His chamchas led my one man party Bijukche and Serchan sing the same tune. The five party "gathbandhan" always comes in crisis whenever there is issue of Premiership or "satta". You guys would have to be educated fools to endorse and support such inept politicans. I would suggest to support on merit basis and their credibility rather than by default. Bottom line, I haven't seen a worse leader in Nepal than Girija. He dissolved the parliament when he had absolute majority and split a party that once looked as if it was going to dominate Nepal's politics for a long time. Look what he has done to his own party and colleagues like Ganesh Man, KP. If he can't rule a country when he has absolute majority, what rights does he have to expect ordinary people like us to believe he will lead people in circumstance like this. Give me a break!!! |
| SITARA | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 08:38 PM
Surely, even the dumbest of Dubya's chumchas can differentiate between Biswo and Bush ( the head of state of the mighty US of A!). But then again, if a comparision can be drawn between the head of the state calling a whole nation/s "axis of evil", and Biswo calling the king "evil".... :)... I have no choice but to bow down in deep reverence at such magnificent display of intellectual analysis! |
| Biswo | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 08:46 PM
ashu, I give you the last word on that FIVE EPISODE thing. I hope that makes you happy. -- Re republicanism and the evil king. It is interesting how you asked the republican to give a 'clear vision' for future sans king. This is a classical status-quo wallah's questions. An Iraqi student in China once remarked to me the same thing: "Saddam is evil, but who else? The opposition is so fractious." Cubans , I presume, think similar way:" Castro may be bad, but the Miami mafia?" I assume that if you were at Iraq/Cuba, you would be thinking in the similar way. [ If your family has benefitted by assuming one of the highest post in civil service in these regimes, there is even more reason to think that way.] I agree that such drastic change are tantamount to lurching towards uncertainty for at least transitional period [most likely, finitely]. Yet those changes are worth committing. It is possible to run Nepal without king, in fact, it is being run without king only if you come out of cocoon, and watch around you. RNA's roaming in Nepali villages outside KTM is elephant and river scenario that I mentioned above. I am not going to write in detail here the constitution of republican Nepal: I can't. But sagacious readers are aware that in the world, hundreds of monarchies have fallen, and the world has been a better place due to that.To look around in our neighborhood: Bickering monarchs of India had betrayed their populace, and capitulated to British. Chinese had similar experiences. It is unlikely that you will find a single citizen from India and China who says he would rather live under monarchy: well, I haven't yet. So, the choice is yours. |
| mack | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 08:48 PM
I think most of us have a clear idea about who is a bad leader and whose is the worst. In this more than a decade long muliti party system weýve seen them all so itýs a waste of time trying to convenience each other who is what in nepali politics. I think the biggest problem Nepal has had is a leadership crisis, there has been no good ones out there for a replacement. I donýt think Nepal has a system to bring up a leader who is genuinely motivated to serve the country. So as long as we have a Bihari politics our most influential leaders are going to be Lalu like. I dont even consider putting the king in the loop as he is evidently self destructive and he is going to be out sooner or later. |
| jaya_nepal | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 09:50 PM
Biswoji, I very well understand your hatred against King Gyanendra, in other words the Monarchy of Nepal. But I would rather go for monachy than supporting a system that showed me more than 14 PMs in less than 14 years. OK, King is curropt has looted the nation and blah blah blah, what would you do for October 4 move by the King or President in the Republican Nepal. The political parties are agitating only because they do not have a clean image politician who can become the PM of the nation. What other reason do they have. OK, king's move was not constitutional, but firstly have they followed constitution. Anyways, the only thing I can hope is peace returns to Nepal. jaya_nepal..!!! |
| KaleKrishna | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 10:24 PM
Bisow have valid point in saying that sonner or later a commited statesman will be born to lead Nepal to its golden age (hope it comes before the end of this Kaliyuga). What I differ here is, kepping the malnourished country at the mercy of this shiverring chilly winter of uncertainity and destruction in anticipation for warm blanket that may be provided or in an optimistic way be woven to wrap it. Let us overcome one hurdle at a time while preparing a strong mindset and ample background work to achieve what is in best interest of the country for the time to come and thereafter. KK |
| NSShrestha | Posted
on 03-Jun-04 10:27 PM
Here is my two centsýý We are not talking about whom to out maneuver and who should be crowned. We are not talking about out smarting other party with evil intent. We are talking how can we empower people? How can we regain the sovereignty? How can we come up with a solution to the Maoist problem? King at the throne is not letting an inch, should people? Neither the king has any substantial agenda to content Maoist or bring them back to mainstream politics nor the Maoists can harm the king who resides in the fortress surrounded by armies. It is we being killed in this internecine war. The king is there means should we give up? Should we be the subject of a feudal king or people of a nation state with dignity? Though we may not be able to break the barrier now, we can move a brick at a time, an inch at a time. Donýt be swayed by the EVIL intent of the king and his rhetoric ý all the leaders are inept let me drive the bandwagon. If we think Maoists are the by-product of twelve years of miss management we have a lot of history to read, a lot of realities to understand. Who ever rallying with Girija Koirala now is not rallying supporting what evil he has done to the country, they are rallying on the agendas of correcting the regression. Is Girija good to be next PM? No. Is he the leader for this rally against regression? Yes. I am not saying here Nepali memory museum is ephemeral, so now Girija is all-clean. We know he is the one all-responsible for defamation of democracy. He is good till he says Premiership is non-issue. As it is over we will tell Girija, Sir its over so your efficacy. We are disciples of the same master. And even the choices were between these two, whom should we support? A good (I doubt) leader of feudal system? A bad (could be) leader of progressive system? Ultimately we have to get there, why not step toward it now though limping. Choices here are maximum out of minimum versus minimum out of maximum. Siding with utilitarian doctrine, we want to maximize our happiness, now you chose the best. Astu :) |
| GP | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 05:46 AM
I think the current postings in this thread is not about discussing or putting your arguements, but, its about two veteran Sajhaities who are drained out of facts and reasoing. Now, trying to win using their egos. Both the parties (now its like Ashu Mafia and Biswo Mafia) are using their pride and digging their opponents mistakes which we already know, but trying to prove us that "hey, are worst than me", and 2nd stage in tilt theory: "I lose, you should also lose". I feel like watching Republican Party's TV ads which media says is 90% devoted on presenting negative sides of Kerry, and only 10% what they (republican) are. When peoples are drained out of their strength, they end up with 2nd choice in tilt theory: "I lose, and you should also lose". Well, at the end of the day when peoples raise a question that "we are sick of the mudslinging stuffs", both parties will try to refute us by claiming that "they were having discussions?", my question to them, "is this a discussion? a discussion between two intellegent peoples?", if it is so, then what will be the discussion between two un-educated and un-intellegent peoples ? My two paisa suggestion to both is that when one of them is going over-board(?), why don't other guy just keep silence and keep on watching and let readers judge who is right or wrong. You won't lose your image if you stop posting or if you retreat from discussion on the particular topic when your opponent keeps on faltering ? In this stage, in my opinion, the winner from public view is the one who can retreat from mudslinging discussions and if he can preserve this quality even at the extreme situation. You have to remember that you are not the judge, here, we readers are the judge. So, your claims will not be taken by us as if granted, we readers will judge it. When you indulge in mudslinging biz, then, we are not going to consider neither of you as winner, but both of you are degrading your image in our perspective. So, don't let your image down because of your own actions. Stop here and keep on moving positively ahead in new threads if your understanding and knowledge in this particular thread is drained out. I have a great respect for both of you guys, but, to retain that respect from me and I guess from other readers too, it would be wise to retreat for sometime and comeback in some other thread or with some better thoughts in this threat. We (especially, me) want writers to have following qualities: 1. Nice: 2. Intelligent 3. Vision 4. Good Fit: with thread topic. 5. Ability to retreat (remember: murkha dekhi daiba daraunu). Looking forward to seeing you guys again, but, without referring to any past "BAD" "mudslinging" postings that should not make us sick / tired. Have good day. GP PS: even if you claim that "we were discussing", the way you were citing past postings, does not let me accept this claim at least at this time. In the past, I had accepted that claim as genuine, but, this time if you make similar claim thats not genuine, but, a fake and lie. |
| sense | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 07:04 AM
I absolutely agree with GP It is not an exception that this thread is also ending up in clashing personal egoism. But anyway I have a say It is a indeed a full circle but I guess the daimeter of this full circle is not consistent enough to be called a full circle so I would rather call it a spiral figure which ofcourse is going to end up in the same centre point of the virtual circle that we have as an illusion in our mind. To be clear, the reasonings of Deuba being sacked n reinstated(dont want to use this word anyway)king was in search of an 'able' premier n he chosed 'unable' ex premier that he sacked before so there is a change in diameter of the core, whoever king choses is able n hoever he sacks is unable ...this is the frst time I saw king G putting such a foolish step ..though I still regard him as the ultimate politician presently in Nepal. Now lets us compare king G with our present day Politicians, please take a note that i never consider R.P.P as political party if yes then its always the king who drives it. Lets go to UML...I can see makune so called its top leader..actually after the fall of madan bhandari there is always a crisis of leadership in UML. Anyway back to track;makune did a lot for the pro democracy movement in the past n present n should be appreciated.Now when it comes to his influence n grip in politics ..it seems like he could never take his stand n he was always used by others(preferebly girija the great )n he also loved to be kicked back in return of his support getting assurences of getting PM next time. Sorry but thats the truth Makune can never be a good politicians on the basis that he can never judge his own step before or later taking it. Lets go to congress.....anybody can define girija better than me ...my one sentence defination on girija is ' stupidity loses its meaning there' :) KP lets not talk abt him he tries to make ground but becomes foolish with his own axns... the rest r damn chamches either for post or power. Maoshits....I would say they have the calibre to tackle with king G in politics with each n every of their political moves including the efficiency of putting press releases n striking the iron when it is hot n same does king G. What maoist lack is even the slightest of people's support in comparision to king G but nevermind that doesnt mean that king is failing to gain the same support as previously n a foolish step like the recent one would ulitimately run down his power. what we have to understand is politicians r really failing to understand each n every movement of these two n the question of people like makune n girija getting in axn with these powerplants would be nothing than getting lost in mysery. So the only way out for them is use this foolish step provided as a cadeau by G to get their lost game back...but it seems still they r clueless n still in delimma. Afterall we the janatas will surely choose a democratic corrupt leader than two guns pointing directly on our head. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 07:54 AM
Poonte Bro, take that rusty khukuri off your gardhan.... feri dasha lagya belama titanus hola. aani injection lauda lauda hairaan.. anwyays, brother, the thing is, out of those 1058 members, 1000 don't do anything. Believe me, they are just there and their names are published at the last pages of Smarika. Now the remaing 58. They do some work. They go collect money- again, no one is forced to donate. They organize talk programs and they are the ones who talk. So no outside experts who gets paid. The only people who get paid are the people who contribute articles/poems to the smarika. And its not 100000, its a meager 800-1000 and a free copy of smarika. again those people aren't writing for the money anyway. The committe spends money on providing GOOD food to the kids at Balmandir and to the people at the Pashupati Bridhashram. There are art openings too- but the art(s) is not about the King or the royal family. Inspirting artists get an occassion to display their paintings/sculptures because the galleries tend to lend the space for free or for lower fee for few days to mark the King's b'day. In a way, you get to see the art works of artists who cannot afford the galleries' fees. So its not spent on whsikey/beer and chicken chillya s you might have thought. A significant chunk of the money raised is spent on charity works. Also the last pages of smarika will have the name of the people who contributes money and those are the people who love the King and they are contributing the money tos how their love and resepct to the King, without any lovh-lalach for takma, power and positions.. some of them are retired army officers, some of them are Professors, some of them are ex-ministers, some of them are sahityakars, some of them are patrakars, some of them are diplomats, some of them are artists, some of them are people who have already won GoDaBas and all the decorations of Nepal.. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 07:55 AM
sorry wrong thread parceha |
| GP | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 08:11 AM
Sense, you are right it also does not look circle to me when I add a third parameter i.e. time on the z-direction and plot r-theta-and-time_t in 3 different axis. Being time an independent paramter, it will turn the curve into spiral. Similarly, the politics in Nepal is also spiral .......... only the question remains unanswered is whether its spiraling down or spirling up i.e. time in nepal is moving ahead or moving back ? Five political parties failing to bring consensus candidate clearly tells that they have failed to deliver to the country. The ball was on their court and they failed, this time too Girija played a foul game, he only desires to have the five parties to recommend him as consensus candidate, and anything else is not acceptable to him. In this sense, Girija is the evil who became PM of Nepal for 5 times and always followed nepotism. He is one of the greatest evil in modern Nepal. He is the one who helped to nurture maoists, with the hope of undermining UML by creating a situation to make UML cadres move to Maoists, and I once heard from die hard top NC leaders telling that let maoists grow and its good for NC because its a threat for UML and not for NC, if required we can "thik pardinchou maoist lai 2/4 dinama". Now, its Maoists who took toll on Girija, and he is probably the biggest victim of Maoists and King is the winner, UML is not loser at least for the time being. The status of UML can be deciding if those 6 CC Maoists caught in Patna are handed over to Nepal govt. and it will be sign that Maoists will need to settle with King, exactly the way BP had to do with birendra in 2034(?) when Indira gandhi asked them to leave India. GP |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 08:43 AM
No matter how much I hate to make a fool of myslef by questing Sitara miss ko views, I just can't help it. Aaba, Test ma fail bhayeko manche le miss lai k counter-question gari rakhnu, tara pani.. k bhanne, miss le malai hard-time diyeko le ma ni miss lai alikati hard time diu ki? hehe no quid-pro-quo or tit-for-tat .. just for the sake of an easy hard time. 1. Should we go on examining the past? No. A clear no. If the unverified past behaviors are to be questioned, examined and investigated, then none of the political leaders would stand any chance to be called leaders, hoina. Unless, you have a solid evidence to support your claim, I don't think it makes any sense to say, "falano le 2020 saal ma yesto gareko thiyo re...maile suneko kura". I mean, how can you prove anything by basing your whole argument on suneko/kasaile nadekheko kura, can you? 2. No, you didn't claim that you know the King better than me, nor I made that statement. I said, since based on your "past"/ history theory, "you seem to know the King's past better than me". I don't think I misread you there. If you think I misread you, just read your first point in your reply to me in which you clearly stress the need to examine the past. 3. Read my first point. Aaba saboot bina ko case k garney? jasle jallai j bhane pani huncha.. 4. Well, you don't know what happened, I don't know what happened because we both weren't there to witness the tragedy just like the remaing 2 karod 39 lakh, 99 hajar, 988 jantas of Nepal (considering that nepal's total population is 2 karod 40 lakh). To satisfy our curiosity there was a probe commission formed and that commission published a report detailing what happened. Aaba, no I don't want to believe in the probe commission's report bhanne ho bhane, there's nothing you can do. You might very well not believe official reports about JFK's murder, about 9/11, about the Pentagon attacks and start reading/believing in the National Enquirer kind of reports, and develop an "alternative mindset". As long as you are thinking and learning, whether rational or highly irrational things, I think its good for you. (now a fail bhako student le yeso bhanna nahune.. so agrim mafi yachana). 5. Time and again, I have made it clear that angrezi is not my motehr tongue and its very easy for me to misread long/complex and vague sentences. Here's what i w as referring to: correct me hai.. You wrote: Both have yet to prove themselves as "good", "wonderful", "giving", "self-less"....DIVINE before analytical minds can accept those terms. Then on the next paragraph, you wrote: Understandably, some of us are looking toward the betterment of our country, hoping against hope that King G will metamorph into the "good king" of "evil times" but, even more understandable is the fact that there are many of us who would prefer to tread cautiously given the recent murder of King B's family and the ensuing dark , political, suspicious days. Scepticism is allowed in politics, you know! = You are implying that only those who question the monarchy have "analytical minds", and they hope for the betterment of the country. Others are "plain oppurtunist" who do not think about the country [you didn't write this explicitly ebcause you are not an idiot to do this, however, you implied this, and that's what I read. "Analytical minds question issues, and you and your freinds have analytical mind because you are questioning, so you are the ones who care about the country." This is what I could understand. If I misunderstood you, accept my sicnere apologies. 6. Its not about King's mood swings. Its about the necessity and changing political scenes at home and abroad. So just to link the whole episode to King's modd swings, without udnerstanding the internal and international situations is not right- definately not very analytical. 7. That's good to know. One more reason to take your classes next semester:-O) |
| andolan_61 | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 08:53 AM
isolated, I am just wondering why are such a ass, blind supporter of King? don't you have own vision or view. It seems that no matter what king does, it's right for you. I think education is not only degree, it makes you more bright that you can see everything as Neutral and you can judge with biasedness.. |
| ashu | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 08:53 AM
GP-ji, I think by now it's well established that Sajha is full of intelligent people who have a mind of their own. If two or more people here fight it out with their own wrong or right ideas, that's PERFECTLY fine. The sky is NOT going fall down and the world, as we know it, is not going to end because some guys are out here displaying their whatever egos. The heated discussions here just show that people here feel passionately about their sides of any story, and that they bring a lot of energy and passion to advocate their positions, and I think that's great. After all, reading different people's postings, even when you strongly disagree with them, can be eye-opening at best and an entertaining spectator sport at worst. Either way, a DIVERSITY of ideas rules, and YOU as a readetr get to decide which ones you'd want to side with. Where's the harm here? I, for one, would rather have a lively, noisy, no-holds-barred, heated discussions on Sajha than antiseptically suffocating, polite, nose-picking, naval-gazing discussions that don't take a stand, that don't take risks with ideas and that are as boring as some of these seminars and workshops I attend in Kathmandu. So, let's celebrate the freewheeling culture of Sajha and cherish the spirit of Sajjha EVEN when we at times may find it distasteful. As they say, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. oohi ashu ktm,nepal |
| andolan_61 | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 08:54 AM
Not with, without |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 08:57 AM
Also Sitara, About teh use of words in discussions on Sajha: Its a Sajha- Sabai Nepaliko Sajha- board, not an exclusive Republican or Monarchist or something else board. The people who visit here are Monarchists, Republicans, Maoists, Extremists, Communists, Socialists and may be Quakers, Mormons, Catholics, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims and what not. And all have dfferent mindsets, different views and their own perceception of what is tolerable and what is not. Since this is note exclusively confined to any of the groups, its common sense that before using strong adjectives/words, you have to be mindful of the other visitors'/posters sentiments. What may be fine, aceptable and totally normal to you may be totally bad, unacceptable and abnormal to others. If it were a confined board in which the people with similar views got together and discussed or patted each other "syabbas" all the time, then its nota problem. As far as I know, Sajha is not a closed group where every member has to share the same thinking, its open to everyone.. No one says that you have to share my thinking, what people here say (many of them atleast) is this: Do be mindful of our sentiments. You can of course, express yourself but there's always an aceptable way of doing it. You don't haev to be unnecessarily harsh to prove your point, do you? (just learned the use of tag questions.. aaba miss lai tag tag tag question sodehra hairaan parchu). |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 09:16 AM
andolan 61, and I am wondering why you are such a ass, blind supporter of the parties? don't you have own vision or view. It seems that no matter what the parties do, it's right for you. I think education is not only degree, it makes you more bright that you can see everything as Neutral and you can judge with biasedness.. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 09:29 AM
If ji: I did forget to conclude the points on the "hearsay" and "bina saboot": Since, NO One of the royal families has been brought to a public trial (here is a thought: Can the CIAA investigate the royal sumpatti, frivolous spendings and/or ill gained-wealth, I wonder; or is only the janata subject to corruption/murder investigations!?), Your guess is as bad as mine or mine is as good as yours!!!!! Was I unnecessarily harsh,....with you or with the royal family? I appologize for seeming so(with you.... about the monarchy, I still maintain my scepticism)... I promise to behave in an acceptable code of conduct, even give up my Samurai's Bushido when/if I do have the good fortune to meet with you in KTM; we won't be discussing politics much.... how about religion?! :P |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 09:42 AM
Was I unnecessarily harsh,....with you or with the royal family? I appologize for seeming so(with you.... about the monarchy, I still maintain my scepticism)... I promise to behave in an acceptable code of conduct, even give up my Samurai's Bushido when/if I do have the good fortune to meet with you in KTM; we won't be discussing politics much.... how about religion?! :P Come on Sitara, don't give on that age old martial "boshido code" otherwise you will be a Ronin and might end up like the characters of Akira Kurasawa's "The Seven Samurai". And that's going to hurt the warrior pride of Omikami's descendent who sits on the "chrsyenthamum throne". Bring your Katana with you hai.. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 09:43 AM
don't give on that age = don't give up |
| SITARA | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 09:44 AM
One more thing: My "implications of analytical non/monarchists", are directly dependent on your assumptions/interpretations of my writing. Further, I fail to understand the demands of these stressful times to purchase luxury vehicles... truly something I'm missing here! Sodhi sodhi hairaan garney malai? harey!!! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 09:49 AM
Sitara, Seems like everything is getting lost in translation for both of us. So, we'll resolve it in our matri bhasa in kathmandu.. and who knows after seeing your sharp katana, I might just start agreeing to what you say! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 10:04 AM
My "implications of analytical non/monarchists", are directly dependent on your assumptions/interpretations of my writing. Now, if we are to depend everything on our understanding/assumption/interpretation of other's wroitings, then nobody would be understanding anybody. You wrote what you wrote and I understood what you wrote (by clicking on dcitionary.com 20000 times). So, take the responsibility Sitara..You implied by your words which made me understand what I understood. Come on, think of about it while eating your sushi with a touch of wasabi: a good Samurai who follows thh boshido code is prepared for Harakiri :-) |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 10:05 AM
Now, if we are to depend everything on our = now if we are to depend on |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 10:16 AM
and just to make it clear, Your writing is not as vague as Kissinger's Shanghai Communique. So, it leaves a very little room for my own imaginitaion, understanding and interpretation of your sentences/words. Theys peak for themselves ni, hoina? :-) |
| SITARA | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 10:25 AM
IF ji: Females, commit "seppuko" kyaare... I'd prefer to be an honorable ronin monk (I don't believe in honor killings of any sort); will leave the royal courtly ways to you. You bring your katana and I will bring my (poisoned... :P) pen. Will even help you write your death poem concluding it with a graceful tea ceremony(decorated with an exquisite Ikebana) at a Karaoki bar (is there one in KTM?). AND if all else fails, how about if I show you how to make an Origami Peace Crane, you can hang as a reminder of our peaceful differences! hehe! Namaste! :) |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 10:42 AM
wohooo.. but then there weren't female Samurais. There were Geishas though. You come wearing your Kimono, I will bring my Katana and we'll both watch Sadak-Kabuki that takes place in kathmandu every day tehse days. Of course, we'll find a place where you can impress me with your brush, bonsai and ikebana skills before you arrange a Sado for me. As far as I know, there ae no Kala-OK bars in Kathmandu, but we can go to a Bhatti-Bar and sing whatever we want to sing before you order me Harakiri. And why spend paper on Origami cranes.. why don't you make me the carrot, tomatoes cranes like the ones those little kids' tiffin box decoration.. And if every thing fails.. I will ask you- Mononoko Hime- "shall we dance?" |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 10:51 AM
and as far as my knowledge of Japan goes (which is less than your's), ronins were never honorable monks :-) they were masterless-samurais or job-less samurais who had to farm, or work as contract-labors... and in the warrior society of Japan being a ronin was considered bad. Kurasawa and Ozu have made moveis on how the Ronins- a product of the Tokagawa Shogunate takeover- lived and how the society viewd them. yestai ho jasto lagcha hai malai.. thaha chaina. miss le sachyai dinus. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 11:03 AM
HAJUR, IF ji Ronins were those who disobeyed the ways of the courts labelled and denounced as "Roaming bandits!". I was referring to being ronin (disobeying the courtly ways) and a monk for not given to killing! :) Harey...your literal translations ley pani maryo!!! As far as there being no Samurai women: "Heiko Monogatari" were a band of brave women warriors (no hajur, geishas were not the only females who came into prominance!!!!) and important among these was Hojo Masako, wife of Minamoto Yoritomo. She was later known as " a general in nun's habit"! Ye hajur, you live in the Orient and I live in ignorant USA: hajur sanga ke baadbibadh garney... ma ta tyasai haren ni!!! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 11:10 AM
baafre.. I am impressed by your warrior spirit. Now I'll upgrade my offer: instead of a beer or a cup of coffee, I will buy you a Hamachi gardhan and a bottle of Sake.. and miso soup and gomae spinich with tato tato nepali Tempura. Since you have already impresed me with your Kabuki, Samurai, Ikebana and Origami skills, please impress me with your Chopsticks skills:-), Kirei and kawai princess! |
| GP | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 11:34 AM
This thread reminds the story of 3 blind men's description on an elephant upon returning from zoo visit. hehehehehe.......... No offense intended. GP |
| SITARA | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 12:25 PM
Tyahi ta, where the zookeeper who thinks he is the only one with eyes, is in reality blind, deaf and dumb! hehehe! no offence intended! ---------------------------------------------------- If ji, thank you! ... KTM zindabaad! :) Wokkay, back to Nepali politics! Sorry to have deviated from the "evil king"! |
| Deep | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 02:16 PM
ke bhe chha ta naya pardhan mantri lai--ke rudhi firmana laye chhan ta ke re hamro desha bhanera aamchhu ta sitara miss ra ekante freak sir ko kata kata ko ho kata kata ko kuro po dashain ma linge ping mach.chya jasto mach.machi ra re chha. last time aamda ashu sir ra biswo sir ko wak-sangram chalya re chha --ahile ta thamiyo hola bhanya ta arko round suru bha re chha--kheladi ni feriye chhan.... heri khatti kuro ta ke bhako bhane ni----- Gyanendra----(bhako)---->Sher Madhav ------(bhako)--->Girija (bhwakkai pachhariyeko ni, ganthe!) Girija------(bhako)---Mandal (aba ugra salbalamchhan baje--Mandale jasto) Amik-----(bhako)---->Aanandi (bel pakyo kaglai harsa na bismat-Anandai) Sher---(bhako)---->Pun (punah PM--ghokrethyak khayera firta) ---yastai yastai chha sathi---ghumne mechma andho manchhe! |
| Destination anywhere | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 02:41 PM
here you go.. 
|
| Destination anywhere | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 02:42 PM
wrong thread ma pare cha, bore bho yaar...heavyweight haru ko thead ma.... |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 03:19 PM
Sitara miss, you are always welcome. "Wokkay, back to Nepali politics! Sorry to have deviated from the "evil king"! Since you don't seem to eager to respect your students' sentiments, just to make it a bit easier for me and my class-mates, let me rephrase your sentence: "Wokkay, back to Nepali politics! Sorry to have deviated from the "evil-stupid-idotic-nonsensical-silly topic of Republicanism"! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 03:19 PM
you don't seem to eager = too eager |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 03:51 PM
anyways, before I head off hamro Siatara miss lai kehi lekhu hai.. Sitara jyu, jokes aside, I have now seriously started to wonder what type of education your kids are getting. Do you teach them to focibely impose their ideas on others with a total disregard and disrespect for their ideas/beliefs/sentimemts by saying, hey, look.. I have a more analytical mind than you (evident by your repeated use of the word "evil" for unnecessary reasons)? And when somebody objects, do you teach them to say, "well, that was not to be taken literally or figuratively"? Or just deny that they even said/wrote that? My rephrasing of your statement was tit-for-tat, so that you know what happens when you knowingly/unknowingly criticize something that some of the debators value dearly. Of course, you can justify your use of the word "Evil" by saying "well, it wasn't to be taken literally.The evil has many forms ranging from a lesser evil to a greater evil and ending in Vampire...you know.. .and that's what Zen teaches us? :-) Bujhna alik garo bhayo yaar.. GPji, Thik bhannu bhayo.. that's why I was talking about EXPOSURE and you yourself were talkking about the RIGHT words earlier. |
| GP | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 07:41 PM
What went wrong? in this thread. I am wondering. Thanks god, you are blind, otherwise you would be watching the in-sane stuffs here. Is that a practice of freedom of speech? Don't peoples say that your freedom stops right under my nose. But, non-blind peoples are supposed to watch that picture, I wish San-web-guru deletes it ASAP. GP Ashu you wrote " when we at times may find it distasteful. As they say, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. " I think its not heat the problem in current kitchen, the fume ...... that has kicked all the players out. GP |
| rauniyar | Posted
on 04-Jun-04 11:43 PM
Hi all, padhnu pad-youu, tara kura chahi sike-nou... Dhat teri ka! Aba lekhnu lekh-chou tara sahi kura lekh-dai-nou.. Dhat teri ka again!!! Uhi Rajeev CT, Amrika PS Sun-ne lai ful ko maya, pad-nee lai sun ko mala, yo-ou katha bai-kuntha ma ja-la, bhan-ne bela ma khuru-kha aou-la |
| Prem Charo | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 12:15 AM
Ooh by the way, congrats to Deuwa dai:-) Prem Charo Hawaii |
| Prem Charo | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 12:15 AM
You guys still arguing over pointless Deuwa!!! yet, if you guys think this thread is all about Biswo Vs Ashu then.... I know, Biswo likes to attack Ashu for each and every time Ashu writes something in Sajha. Tara... I think it's because Biswo knows that Ashu went to Harvard and he wants to prove he's better than Ashu, for being villege_school_to_university_in_the_US. In reality, Biswo is nothing else than bookish obtuse. |
| An Indun Poet | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 12:49 AM
And Prem Charo is a just a Chiping Charo. ( I missed Royal somewhere) |
| SITARA | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 07:18 AM
Deep ji and others: IF ji gave me a refreshing adrenaline rush regarding the Japanese court; I could not resist it!!! :) I hate to see two great minds like Biswo and Ashu getting dragged into personal mires. ------------------------------------- "Wokkay, back to Nepali politics! Sorry to have deviated from the "evil-stupid-idotic-nonsensical-silly topic of Republicanism"! >>IF FIRST-- SURE GO AHEAD, if it makes you feel better! Your title IS as GOOD as any! Replace "evil" with all that if it salvages your Loyalty to the Royalty. Makes no difference to me; you see, my political opinion is just a minor part of what I think, not my whole existence!!!! SECOND-- I had asked you, and let me elaborate it since you brought in Zen: Was I harsh with YOU/your profession/studies/philosophy/up-bringing (regarding who imposed monarchist thoughts on you!) OR Nepalese Royalty?! Analyze that! Well, I will give you the benefit of doubt and attribute your pleasant inquiry of my little students to a keen "analytical" mind and not to a personal attack. Since you asked: The stories of good kings and queens read to them (from our library) exist merely in the form of fairytales!!! Ye hajur, interesting meandering conversations, we've had. We certainly live in interesting times, especially, in Sajha! When my honorable badhbibadhist opponant extends his keen, intellectual mind BEYOND my political opinions(as Nepali Angel aptly stressed: "ONLY OPINIONS!), we can't have a rational conversation! Have a wonderful weekend IF ji! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 07:48 AM
Aaiya Sitara miss, I knew it was coming, and to tell you the truth, I was waiting for it. Its always our Profs who teach us, hoina? Otherwise, there's no way we can learn. Now that Prof has bombarded my little, good-for-nothing-but-complaining brain with questions, I think I should at least try to answer those.. although its not even worthy of a F- . K garney, discusions sometimes get so intertwined with your existence as a poster, that you have no choice but to answer back each and every post- and in the process of doing that, make a fool of yourself. But that's how this thing works! Otherwise my existence in sajha is threatened and I don't want that.. (nor you, hoina? :-)... First- Good to know. Second- Prof. Sitara, I hate to say it, but YES, a BIG YES, that you were indeed harsh with my everything that you wrote with your use of "EVIL". Look, you have an analytical-intelligent mind that knows everything from Japan to Zambia, and I do not. I have a very simple mind (not very beautiful though) so, I just rely on what people write, without caring whether it was meant to be taken literally/figuratively or something else. I wish I were good at diving, so that I could dive straight into my Profs. minds and understand exactly what they want me to understand.. tara K garney.. I just have to rely on their words and sentences. aaba, since you have confused me, amuzed me and amazed me with "kahile understand this" kahile "don't understand this" attitude, no matter how much I hate to go/look beyond your highly politically (in)correct POLITICAL OPINIONS, I have to. K garne? Since I am a student who is yet to develop an analytical mindset, I can't help doing it.. maybe next semester, you'll help me do better.. (and give me an A++). namaste. You too, have a GREAT weekend. |
| Prem Charo | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 10:59 AM
An Indun Poet, I don't think I have to mention anything abought our king here. This time these currupted leaders established the truth, that they are still not prepare to serve the country. The King had to take the step making PM to Deuwa. The PM post is like a bone for five dogs for these foolish, careless,Dazed,worthless,motionless,corrupted leaders. We all know now. more....Laterz... PC :) Hawaii |
| paramendra | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 02:48 PM
The move is a shrewd one on the part of King G. The guy is known for it. He has managed to break up the five-party alliance without having to directly address the Maoists himself. The new shape-up also suits the UML. It would rather have a split NC. Took a lot of steam out of the "movement." Can't blame the UML and Deuba too much. The reason Girija wants the parliament restored is that would propel him to the center of the political stage and sideline both the UML and Deuba. Looks like Girija did not get his way. The best option might be for all the parties to join the government. As for the 18-point demand, first resolve the Maoist issue, hold elections, and then once the new parliament shows up, then push the 18-point agenda through it. Don't expect the king to willingly, happily give away his powers, instead take it away through legal means. The most important issue continues to be the civil war. It is important to bring the Maoists to the table. The previous monarchy-is-out-of-bounds stance might not help. Any thoughts on how to resolve the Maoist issue? I feel the first condition is an all-party government. The Girijas of the world should realize what is at stake and join the Deuba government. Once that all-party government is formed, it can talk to the Maoists with authority that Chand and Thapa could not have. Maybe the 18-point agenda will be the meeting point for the Maoists and the all-party government. But the chances of Girija losing his utter inflexibility .... what are they! The leaders like Girija are directly responsible for the breakdown in the country. The center could not hold. In the process, both the extreme left and the extreme right got stronger. P.S. Tackle the Maoist insurgency in Nepal, and the Ashu-Biswo insurgency at Sajha! |
| mack | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 03:33 PM
what r the contents of the 18 point agenda? |
| sparsha | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 05:56 PM
Paramendra wrote: "The best option might be for all the parties to join the government. As for the 18-point demand, first resolve the Maoist issue, hold elections, and then once the new parliament shows up, then push the 18-point agenda through it. Don't expect the king to willingly, happily give away his powers, instead take it away through legal means. " "The leaders like Girija are directly responsible for the breakdown in the country. The center could not hold. In the process, both the extreme left and the extreme right got stronger. " And I used to wonder **Will I ever share a thought platform with this person-Paramendra?" Well, today I do. I do share his sentiment. The need of the hour is to give a "fighting chance" to peace. I doubt NC_Girija and his hanumans rise beyound their parochial self glorification. I don't understand why couldn't some flamable and reasonable leaders like Narahari Acharya ask Girija "either to get the hell out of the party or join the mainsrteam defending existing and potential national interest". The issues our nation is facing are grave and complex (no quick solution) in nature. However, without peace, we are good for nothing. |
| An Indun Poet | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 06:20 PM
Somebody must be feeding "royal" birdseeds. |
| GP | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 07:16 PM
Sparsha, Paramendra is far different than some of his postings that look provocative. Paramendra ji thanks for the fotos and don't make those stuffs public to sajhaities, let them be private. Sparsha ji, I was very surprised when I met Paramendra bhagat at my residence (Paramendra ji, let my current residence/town remain again private) this winter. I really liked Paramendra ji's recommendations and expectations. I think Deoba should be doing exactly what Paramendra as a citizen of Nepal expects and I join Paramendra in those expectations. I think Deoba is different from Chand and Thapa. Chand and Thapa don't have future and they were beggers and for them PM position is plainly a medal. But, Deoba has power to make tussle when it needs and King can not simply ask for resignation, but, will have to speak over TV to make him out of power, next time it can be more dangerous move to king himself. Deoba can ask for power that was grabbed by King G when deoba was kicked out of Power. In these latest, 6 months, I liked Deoba more than I liked him when I met him in 2000 in his residence. He is getting stronger. I wish him all the best. Thanks god, he does not have Khadka now. Well, This time Girija is the greatest loser and I wish he don't die in six or in a year before the election. If Deoba can make election to occure, Girija will join Deoba Kangress, practically, at the last minute when he finds of losing the seats in Parliament. UML seems to be a major benefeciary of the division and if UML does not exploit this situation, then, UML leaders are idiots. At the end, I wish Biswo ji change his stance in real world, though, he can still show his ego "grapes are sour", "Makune is gaddar for supporting Deoba and joining King appointed government". Oops. K Garne? GP |
| An Indun Poet | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 07:31 PM
There is not permanent "loosers" and "winners" in politics. You have to look at how the future shapes up. "Hero" Deuba might not at all look like a hero if he bows down to the King to do anything. UML might not benefit that much, if somehow the NC_Girijia decides to reunite, etc. etc. In politics there are lots of possibilites. When Oct. 4th happened, there were lots of people with lots of expection, if the polls were taken then King G probably had a very high favorable poll. If same kind of poll was taken 1 month back, King G, then it would be different. One amazing thing about people (janata) is they tend to forget. They always look for the present and the future. I think in politics its always present and future. Those who can maintain the present situation and forsee the future are great leaders. So lets wait how the future turnsout. Just 200 liras. |
| shagadelic | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 08:38 PM
talking about sovereign rights of people...can somebody explain to me how it can be identified??...I mean why can't just everyone continue to do their job the way they used to do before October 4? Isn't the whole 'regression' thing just mental??? I fail to understand ! |
| Biswo | Posted
on 05-Jun-04 09:36 PM
What's your problem, GPji? I mean, you surely understand what I have written in my first reply, right? Where did I say Madhav Nepal is Gaddar? Did I ever imply this? In fact, I said that this govt may get a semblance of legitimacy if UML/RPP support it: my difference and disagreements aside. OK, you're so fond of calling Girija a corrupt. GPji, can you say Deuba is better,or not corrupt? This is my only question to you: Do you think Deuba is a swachchha chhabi? Or is it your hatred towards Girija that is speaking now, rationals be damned? -- I prefer it if people make comments after reading my postings carefully. It is waste of our time if we shoot at the darkness, recklessly. |
| ashu | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 07:57 AM
Biswo wrote: "I prefer it if people make comments after reading my postings carefully." I hereby humbly nominate the above sentence as "The Understatement of the Year" on Sajha. :-) ******* That said, here is this news about the second-generation Congressi-wallahs being bilious toward their neta -- Girija. They are also jealous of their old peer Deuba being the PM, for the third time. They don't like Girija, and they don't like Deuba . . . not a good situation to be in at the moment. **** ýCoterie giving wrong advice to Koiralaý POST REPORT KATHMANDU, June 5 - In the wake of Sher Bahadur Deubaýs appointment as prime minister, senior Nepali Congress leaders have criticized their President Girija Prasad Koirala.On the second day of the partyýs Central Working Committee meeting, the leaders considered closest to Koirala, said the octogenarian leader was under the influence of the wrong people, and said that he had failed to ensure democracy within the party.Critics of Koirala were none other than his sister-in-law Nona Koirala, neice Shailaja Acharya and a close relative, Amod Upadhyay. The CWC has become just a formality to rubber-stamp the decisions made by a handful of Koiralaýs coterie in a dark room, said Shailaja Acharya. Talking to journalists after walking out of the meeting, Acharya also accused Koirala of being a pawn in the hands of some "corrupt" who have made no contribution to the party."We were not informed when the party decided not to suggest any name to the king, nor did Koirala consult us before rushing to the palace for an audience," Acharya fumed. She also alleged that some "advisors" to Koirala were deliberately assisting Deuba. A senior CWC member, Nona Koirala was also equally critical of the party president at the meeting. "Girija Babu has failed to carry out any reforms in the party despite repeated commitments," a member quoted Nona as saying at the meeting. "He has failed to place the right man in the right position in the party." Amod Prasad Upadhyay, another CWC member said, "Koiralaýs past commitments to institutionalize the party and make it efficient have yet been unfulfilled."Koiralaýs closest relatives were lashing out at the "coterie" comprising Sushil Koirala, Gobinda Raj Joshi, Krishna P Sitaula, Ram Krishna Tamrakar and Laxman Ghimire.Another member, Dr. Ramsharan Mahat also said that reforms in the party central committee, was inevitable in meeting new challenges. Hinting at the possibility of a reshuffle in the partyýs central working committee, Ram Chandra Poudel, another CWC member said, "Serious discussions are underway on the issues of partyýs internal management."Party president GP Koirala heard the shower of criticisms aimed at him but did not react. However, all the CWC members were of the opinion that Sher Bahadur Deubaýs appointment to the post of Prime Minster was yet another step towards consolidation of regressive motion."Since the issues raised by the five-party alliance have not been addressed yet, we term Deubaýs appointment as the consolidation of regression," Poudel added.Party spokesman Arjun Narsingh KC also claimed that since Deubaýs appointment was not reinstatement of Deuba constitutionally and politically, there was no question of supporting him. http://www.kantipuronline.com/kolnews.php?&nid=12678 |
| Biswo | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 08:56 AM
Thanks for that nomination, ashu. It is so important that i) People at least know what their position is, in addition to bashing everybody or somebody, and praising/accepting whoever is in the power. ii) People know what they are talking about, rather than throwing some vague comments, and after being challenged to come up with specific, running away. astu. |
| ashu | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 10:07 AM
Biswo, For somebody who has the gall to loftily tell others: "I prefer it if people make comments after reading my postings carefully", you display a curious sense of irony, not to mention no sense of humor. I deliberately PREFACED my remarks by saying that they were GENERAL ones, or general OPINIONS. But you -- for reasons known only to you -- decided to take them personally, and started going berserk, attacking me needlessly. Thankfully, your ranting has NEVER been my emergency; that is why I have seen NO need to hurl adjectives at you the way you have been hurling at me. I could afford to be calmly philosophical with you because I have dealt wth you in the past, and am familiar with all your schticks. The fact remains that with, SOLID EVIDENCE, you have been proven WRONG five times before on five different occasions. And I have yet to hear a simple "I was wrong" or "Maybe perhaps there is something more to the story than what I know" admission from you on any one of those cases. [In the Deepak Gyawali case, to cite but one tired example, a third-person named Kumar Prasad Upadhyay had to intervene and point out your and someone else's totally absurd inconsistencies. Even then, you guys did not have the decency, much less humility, to say that you guys were wrong, which you were.] I bring up the past to REPEATEDLY underscore that there is a familiarly DISHONEST PATTERN to how guys like you -- despite your brilliance -- debate on certain issues, and the way you get personal when strong disagreements are voiced by others, and that is why -- given your provable HISTORY -- I find this instance to be NOT an exception but the rule. If you have read this far, and are choking with rage, go ahead, jump up and down, and hurl more adjectives at me. What do I care? After all, only someone totally confused as you are can applaud Deuba's appointment as a palatable solution in your FIRST posting in this thread while attacking the same Deuba for "not being swaccha" enough in your second last posting in light of the negative comments about Girija surfaced. And for someone who hates the King with a vehemence (and that's perfectly OK), how difficult is it to understand that there may be others -- such as GP and others - who can hate Girija with equal, if not more, vehemence? oohi ashu |
| Biswo | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 11:26 AM
ashu: Frankly, I am through with you and your tired "I won you five times " lies, not to mention with your empty threats/talks about "theories and books" you were going to publish. So, now I seriously think: What am I doing here? Wasting my time with a man with such attitude, with such intellectual level? Now, I also understand why a lot of people who disagree with you doesn't want to talk to you here: they know you go around the same circle of lies so many times that other people find it absolutely annoying. I can better utilize my time than giving you chance to practice appease-whoever-in-power, and 'formulate' those-who-came-from-village-to-cities-in-last-some-years-are-corrupt theories. I should have understood it earlier that there are some people in KTM whose hope of being 'important person'lies in their serving some powerful people of KTM whose own guff of fake PhD degrees-that-they-refused-to-complete they never get tired promoting. So, I wish you best luck. |
| GP | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 12:16 PM
Biswo ji, It would be interesting if we can know the a few sample of names who does not want to talk to Ashu: "Now, I also understand why a lot of people who disagree with you doesn't want to talk to you here: they know you go around the same circle of lies so many times that other people find it absolutely annoying." Well, I am not talking on behalf of Ashu, but, I am personally interested to know? How did you come to this conclusion, that I missed in last one decade. GP |
| Biswo | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 12:20 PM
In sajha, GPji, think about those who were here, and are no more. Some prominent names, if you were here for long. Now that you are in USA, you can probably talk to these ex-sajhaites gradually. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 12:58 PM
sparsha: And I used to wonder **Will I ever share a thought platform with this person-Paramendra?" Sparsha Spandan! GP:.... New avatar, eh! |
| GP | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 01:13 PM
Biswo ji, I know you and Ashu for last couple of years and I don't think I have to ask anyone else to know who you guys are. They can not change my understanding on both of you. I already have a strong understanding on you both, I don't need any one else's opinion. GP |
| rbaral | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 01:31 PM
Ashu wrote: >[In the Deepak Gyawali case, to cite but one tired example, >a third-person named Kumar Prasad Upadhyay had to >intervene and point out your and someone else's >totally absurd inconsistencies. Even then, you guys >did not have the decency, much less humility, to say >that you guys were wrong, which you were.] I clearly remember Kumar Prasad Upadhya's very accomplished views in the then thread RE: Deepak Gyawali. His views were of high esteem. I definitely would like him to enlighten us more often with his lofty ideals. But, to make long story short, I had immediately noticed flaws when he was disproprotaniotely protecting you, Ashu. Please don't be too delighted under someone's aegis. Be honest with yourself, and that's that. In this thread also, you have repeatedly tried to do two things, viz., 1. remind Biswo of his last five episodes 2. establish a nexus between Girija Prasad Koirala and democracy in Nepal. Those so-called five instances you have difficulty erasing from your memory, are of far less weight than your repeated discrimination towards those who come from villages and reach the top universities. Please drop me a word, and I will volunteer a few minutes to help you locate of your cherished deliberations. The second part, Ashu, you need to understand that Girija and Democracy are not the one and the same thing. They are totally diffirent. Girija's bad and good behavior doesn't make democracy wrong, neither make king right. Astu. Rishi |
| paramendra | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 01:58 PM
On second thought, the Girija Congress' reaction to the Deuba government might not be all that harmful. Look at this scenario. Deuba forms a government that the UML supports but does not participate in. The RPP, and the Sadbhavana (Mandal) participate. The Koirala Congress stays hostile both to the king and the Deuba government. In that scenario, Deuba takes initiative to talk to the Maoists. The king is not part of the talks. The Koirala Congress asks for the same thing that the Maoists ask for: a constituent assembly. That makes the Maoists look less bad than they otherwise would if they were on their own in their demand. The UML comes around to the idea of a constituent assembly. And although Deuba is not there yet, because Congress (K) and UML are both publicly for a constituent assembly by now, the Maoists feel comfortable enough that they call for a ceasefire and come to the table, but their first demand is that the Congress (K) and the UML be part of the talks. To which Deuba agrees. At this point, the king is in no position to reign in either the Congress (K) or the UML or even Deuba should they opt for a constituent assembly collectively. And the Maoists agree to disband their "army" and abide by whatever the people give their mandate to - a constitutional monarchy though of a much limited nature with no room for King G style activism whatsoever, or a republic, India style - and that they give up on their talk of a communist dictatorship once and for all, and instead abide by the multi-party democracy framework. This unfolding would depend a lot on Deuba's skills. And on the Maoists disbanding their "army" should the other political forces come around to a constituent assembly, and their unconditional acceptance of a multi-party framework. I think they will if they get to save face. Tricky detours ahead. But there is room for optimism. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 02:09 PM
.... cotinued ... And so there is going to be a Constituent Assembly. The Maoists have disbanded their "army." The assembly takes shape. It opts for a republic, and also a federal form of government. The resultant constitution is a truly democratic one, calls Nepal a secular state. One that would make Mahendra Lawoti happy. - http://www.geocities.com/bhagat266/madhesi/lawoti.html King G become a leading businessperson, and with little regret. In his farewell speech he claims his political status might have changed, but his love for the country has not. The parties go out of their way to help him ease his way into the transition. The Congress continues divided and is two different parties. The UML does not fill up all the vacuum left by the divided Congress. The RPP stays the same. The two Sadbhavanas unite and end up being the size of the RPP. The Maoists size up to be bigger than both the RPP and the Sadbhavana, but only slightly, and end up being the prime outlet for the Janajati-Dalit political sentiments: they do not change their name. Nepal becomes like India: a country that will likely have coalition governments for a long time to come. Nepal benefits from the surging economies of India and China and sees rapid economic growth for three decades in a row. Because of provisions for dual citizenship and remarkable political and economic reforms, and globalization and the internet, the Nepali diaspora participates in the economy with gusto that leads to sustained double digit growths. |
| An Indun Poet | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 03:02 PM
PM, you seem to be overly optimistic about the politics in Nepal. I believe King G. has a greater plan which kind of took this long due to the difficulties and some missteps. But I think Deuba's "reinstatement" is according to King G's plan. If you remember, King G had asked Deuba to step down and also promissed he would make him the PM under the 127 clause at the same time. Deuba, who had heavyweight corrupt KBK and CJW could not make the decision, so he got out. Now he is back according to his "master plan". As Amick Sherchan said this is all about "commission." /fhfn] c;Ifd 3f]lift u/]sf b]pjfnfO{ clxn] k'gM cfk}+mn] k|wfgdGqL agfpg afWo x'g'sf] cy{ /fhfsf] xf/ ePsf] dfGg ldNb}g < clxn] ;fýlRrs} b]pjf ;/sf/sf] k'g:yf{kgf ePsf] eP /fhf k/flht ePsf] dflgGYof] t/ Tof] ePg . To;}n] b]pjfsf] k'glg{o'lQm Pp6f gf6sdfq xf] . d'Vo ds;b cs}{5 h'g Hofb} eofgs 5 . To;af/] s]xL atfOlbg'xf];\ g . gf} jif{b]lv g]kfndf hf/L ;z:q ýGýn] g]kfnL hgtfsf] zflGt, ;'Joj:yf, pBf]u, Jofkf/ ;a} If]qdf g/fd|/L k|efj kf/]sf] 5 . of] ;d:of rls{+b} uO/x]sf a]nf /fhfn] hgtfdf hf] ePsf] clwsf/ klg vf]:g] sfd u/] . /, To;otfsf /fhfsf ultljlwaf6 s] a'lemG5 eg] pgL dfcf]jfbL ;d:of ;dfwfg ug{ rfx"b}gg\ . olb of] ;d:of ;dfwfg ug]{ /fhfsf] OR5f x'"bf] xf] eg] clxn] ;+;b\ gePsf] / tTsfn gofý lgjf{rg x'g g;Sg] of] kl/l:yltdf ;+;b\df k|ltlglwTj ug]{ ;a} /fhgLlts bnnfO{ Ps 7fpýdf /fv]/ uDeL/ 5nkmn ug'{kYof]{ / ý;/sf/ s;sf] g]t[Tjdf s;/L agfpg]b]lv lnP/ b]zsf] ;z:q ýGý lg/fs/0f ug]{ 7f]; / Jofjxfl/s gLltof]hgf agfpg'xf];\ý eg]/ /fhfn] bnxýnfO{ lhDdf lbg'kYof]{ . t/, /fhfaf6 To:tf] kxn ePg . cem pN6} ;+j}wflgs / ;+;bLo dd{nfO{ nTofP/ /fhfaf6 b]pjfnfO{ k|wfgdGqL agfpg] sfd eof] . b]pjfsf] cl3Nnf] sfo{sfndf ;+s6sfnsf] 3f]if0ff ul/Psf] lyof] . To:tf] ;+s6sfnsf] Dofb yKg gdfg]sf] lgx'"df b]pjfn] ;+;b\ lj36g u/fP . /, lgjf{rg ug{ g;s]sf] eg]/ c;f]hdf r'gfj ;fg]{ c;+j}wflgs l;kmfl/; u/] . hgtfsf] ;+;b\nfO{ z"Go u/fP/ cfýgf] lglxt :jfy{ k"/f u/fpg] v]ndf b]pjf hfgLghfgL km;] . b]pjfnfO{ ca eLif0f u[xo'4df nlu"b}5 / b]pjfsf] lgo'lQm To;}sf] lglDt ePsf] xf] eGg]df dnfO{ ulx/f] cfzýf 5 . lsg / s;/L < o;sf] sf/0f ;Lwf / :ki6 5 . of] v]n d"ntM sld;gs} xf] . To;kl5 ;Qfsf] klg xf]nf . dfcf]jfbL ljb|f]x bafpg] gfpýdf ljb]zaf6 xltof/ Nofpg] / To;af6 sld;g vfP/ cs't ;DklQ sdfpg] v]n eO/x]sf] 5 . dfcf]jfbL ;d:of ;dfwfg ug{lt/ gnfUg'sf] d'Vo sf/0f g} sld;gsf] v]n xf] . sld;g sýs;n] vfg] u/]sf] 5 < Tof] t tkfO{+xý g} cy{ nufpg'xf];\ g . s]xL ;doklxn] Pp6f x]lnsf]K6/ vl/b k|s/0fdf 7"nf] emu8f k/]sf] lyof] . Tof] emu8f sýs;sf] aLrdf lsg / s;/L eof], Tof] d clxn] atfpýlbg" . sld;gsf nflu b]znfO{ eLif0f o'4df xf]Dg] h:tf] cToGt 3l6of sfd x'"b}5 . To;lglDt ;lhn} pkof]u ug{ ;lsg] b]v]/ b]pjfnfO{ k'glg{o'lQm u/]sf] xf] eý] dnfO{ nfu]sf] 5 . Tof] k|s/0faf/] hgtfnfO{ lj:t[t ýkdf atfOlbg'xf];\ g . clxn] yk s'/f gu/f}+ . pko'Qm ;do cfPkl5 ;a} s'/f :ki6;ýu /fVg]5' . ljb]zLsf] klg :jfy{ 5 elgG5 . s;sf] s] :jfy{ 5 t < xf], sltko 7"nf b]zxý rfxG5g\ ls ;ý;fgf b]zdf u[xo'4 eO/xf];\ / Toxfý xfdL xltof/ a]Rg ;sf}+ . h;af6 /fd|F] cfDbfgL ug{ ;lsof];\ . xltof/ / k};fsf] ;xof]u lbP/ g]kfnnfO{ pklgj]ze}+m /fVg ;lsof];\ eý] pgLxýsf] rfxgf 5 . tkfO{+sf] s'/faf6 t b/af/n] g} of] ;a if8\oGq ul//x]sf] h:tf] a'lemG5 . o; s'/fnfO{ tkfO{+ s;/L k'li6 ug'{x'G5 < olb xf]Og eg] h;nfO{ ýc;Ifdý eg]/ 3f]if0ff ul/of] pm JolQm ý;Ifdý ePsf] s'/fsf] oyf]lrt k'li6 gu/L lsg k|wfgdGqL agfOof] < lsg hgtfsf] ;fj{ef}d;Qf / /fhsLo clwsf/ vf]lhof] < lsg dfcf]jfbL ;d:of ;dfwfg ug{ 7f]; / Odfgbf/ kxn ePg < To;}n] oL ;a s'/fxýn] d]/f] s'/fnfO{ k'li6 u5{g\ . b]pjfsf] kf6L{n] ;+ljwfg ;efdf hfg'kg]{ lg0f{o u/]sf] 5 . dfcf]jfbL ;d:of ;dfwfg ug{ b]pjfn] b]znfO{ ca ;+ljwfg ;efdf n}hfg'x'G5 ls < klxnf] s'/f b]pjfn] rfx"b}df ;+ljwfg ;efdf hfg ;lsg] xf]O{g . /fhfn] g} rfxg'k5{ . /fhf g} tof/ x'g'k5{ . olb To:tf] k|of; eof] eg] ;t{ ;lxtsf] ;+ljwfg ;efsf] s'/f cfpg]5 . ;t{ ;lxtsf] ;+ljwfg ;ef jf:tljs cy{df ;+ljwfg ;ef x'g] s'/} ePg . ;t{ ;lxtsf] ;+ljwfg ;ef s;}n] klg dfGg ;Sb}g . lsgls ;t{ dfGg] xf] eg] t @)$& ;fnsf] ;+ljwfgd} klg ;+j}wflgs /fhtGqnfO{ kl/jt{g ug}{ g;lsg] k|fjwfg /flvPsf] 5 lg ý ;t{ dfGg] xf] eg] t ;+ljwfg ;ef lsg rflxof] / < from Deshantar @ Nepalnews.com |
| Nepe | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 03:08 PM
This is not to comment on Ashu's personality or attitude (because I know what I should know) but to inquire about his stand on monarchy (because I have no idea what that is, even after several round of passionate debates with him on this subject during past three years !). He has given either fuzzy answer or refused to answer at all. Let me cite one occasion when I (and Biswo too) had particularly pinned down Ashu for his ambiguity and what Ashu had to say about it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - http://www.sajha.com/archives/openthread.cfm?threadid=12124&dsn=sajhaarchive2003 Posted on 31-Aug-03 03:02 PM Nepe wrote: Ashu, During the past two years of my regular stay in Sajha, on several occasions, several posters have asked you to put your OWN political pov, but I never asked you the same. I always assumed a Harvard graduate must have reasonably bold views/beliefs/doubts/reasonings and you are afraid to put them because you do not want to jeopardize your developing career which very much depend on succeeding in keeping as many people happy as possible in a highly prejudiced and politically charged and opinionated khaldo called Kathmandu. So it did not bother me that you, while doubting and vehemently criticizing others pov, kept your own pov to yourself or gave some ambiguous, dubious and vague answers when others cornered you all this time. [skip] Particularly, when in this thread, Biswo and other posters have challenged you to put your own political pov and you are cunningly trying to allude them with the same old tricks of yours- that is your ambiguous, dubious, vague, ambivalent, murky, evasive, deluding, cryptic (see I have got a thesaurus with me !) answers. [skip] What kind of answer is that to the question of Biswo to you- "The king is a player in the game." Of course he is. Who is saying he isn't ? What is that crap about the republicans not saying he is. I say he is the central player of the game. And he is also the game itself. You were asked what do you think about the king. And your answer is- "I am willing to SUSPEND my liking or disliking for the king to..." The same trick. Ambiguous, dubious, vague, ambivalent, murky, evasive, deluding, cryptic answer. "..Note that this approach takes a NEUTRAL view of the King,.." What is this crap ? If you take a NEUTRAL view of the king then you also take a NEUTRAL view of the NC-UML. You also take a NEUTRAL view of the Maoists. You also take a NEUTRAL view of the left leaning civil society. You also take a NEUTRAL view of Nepe and Biswo (what the heck !). Ashu, with your fuzzy logic, abstract view and dubious statement, you are way too inadequate to discredit others. And you are certainly not a reliable friend to the struggle for the democracy in Nepal. You sound like a person who accepts whoever is in power. If the king is in power, you will accept him. If the Maoists come in power, you will accept them. Don't ask me to produce where you said it. You said it everywhere. It's all over. [skip] **************** Ashu wrote: Posted on 01-Sep-03 08:34 AM Nepe wrote: >>>>>>I think you indeed have a soft corner for the monarchy (not that there is anything wrong with that). Dipak Gyawali Dai is not alone ! <<<<< Nepe, Fair enough!! I would say that I do remain deeply ambivalent about the King. And despite my doing the best to provoke you with sharp words, you guys still have not given me reasons to switch to your camp. ***************** I replied: Ashu wrote: >I would say that I do remain deeply ambivalent about the King. Fair enough. You said it. I trust. However, there is a small problem. If you are ambivalent about the King, then, by straightforward logic, you must also be ambivalent about the opposition to the King. You can't be unsure and sure about the same thing at the same time, well, unless, your mind is in a quantum state. So, to me, your ambivalence to the palace itself looks dubious. If you explain why you are ambivalent about the King or why I and Biswo should be too, then, perhaps, things will be clear. ***************** Ashu replied: Nepe, [skip] Here, your asserting that "If [I am] ambivalent about the King, then, by straightforward logic, [I] must also be ambivalent about the opposition to the King" is FALSE both on account of straightforward logic and reality. [skip] You seem to saying, either you are this or you are that. For you, there is no middle ground, no half-way point. I, on the other hand, am perfectly comfortable with ambiguities, which you find hard to understand, much less accept. That's OK. ------------------------------------------------------------ Now, please note the key note. Ashu is ambivalent about the monarchy. But he is not ambivalent about the opposition to the monarchy. And together, these two are not illogical and questionable to him !!!! Ashu's chose to have non-judgemental [NEUTRAL] view on monarchy. And his blood boils when somebody has a negative view on monarchy (Check his postings in this and other threads on monarchy). I don't know what should I deduce from these. But I know one thing for sure- Gyanendra is lucky to have someone like Ashu in his kingdom. Keep your morale high, Maharaj. Ashu is there for you- as a non-judgemental observer and a guard to ward the judgemental observers off. |
| An Indun Poet | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 03:24 PM
Interesting 
|
| An Indun Poet | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 03:25 PM
Its rare King G has a smile on his face- everybody knows about the MachendraNath Bhoto Jatra. |
| An Indun Poet | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 03:25 PM
Now Girijia |
| An Indun Poet | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 03:26 PM
Here it is.... 
|
| SITARA | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 05:36 PM
Dear IF Ji Forgive me for having threatened your position as a poster. If it is any consolation, I have enjoyed sharing the arena of "stupidity" with you. No doubt, you are an astute predictor of my comebacks however, you fail to answer my question/s: Given that the GOOD king/royalties have their frailties like all humans, who are they answerable to? Who has the power to bring them to trial if/when attrocities are committed by them? Who has the power to investigate/stop corruptions and frivolous spendings committed by the ruling family? Or, do they hold absolute, unmonitored power?! These are questions that every Nepali needs to have answers to however politically incorrect they may seem to you! Perhaps, I have triggered off filial sentiments(toward the royal family) in you and doing so incurred your wrath, forgive me! However, since you are a scholar of social/political science, indulging in an emotional outrage when being questioned about the head of state (After all, Nepal is as much my country as yours.... unless, you claim a direct, royal bloodline, then I would attempt to understand your outrage!)is surely, not a part of your training in political discussions! |
| nsshrestha | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 06:10 PM
Sitara, Your question here reminded me the Calcutta discourse of Ganga Lal and Ganesh Man. Grandson of Bada Kaji Ratna Man understood the essence of Ganga Lalýs Question. He could not make more than five in any of his I. Sc. classes after he understood the essence, be aware:). So, It is interesting to see if Gyanesh Man here will ever understand the ýMarmaý of your question. |
| mack | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 08:32 PM
what are the contents of the 18 point agenda? |
| GP | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 08:45 PM
When Senior Kennedy's son and daughter died one after another and left with Ted Kennnedy (?) as only very last option to join American Politics, they were left with great dilemma, because Ted had made a mistake while in Harvard and that would be disasterous in his political career if press finds it later and publish it for public digestion. So, the advisor and senior Kennedy called a press conference and disclosed the whole story by themselves so that public can digest it directly and excuse for the mistakes he had committed as a teen ager. I think now Ted is very regarded democrat senior leader and he compared Iraq war with Vietnam war. Well, Deepak Gyawali will always be asked whether he said it that he was offered PH.D. degree (Ph.D. degree is not a award, but, is conferred) by UC Berkley... and as long as Gyawali does not speak his position, this question will be repeated in public in different form. Well, Gyawali even if he comes in public and clarify the truth, public will not accept his clarification to full depth because its already too late. Now, Ashu, a Harvard graduate wjpse future is secured in Nepal first because he graduate of Harvard, second because of his participation in public debate and third because his ability to use words to suit public opinions and public needs, forth: as economist. But, in my personal feeling, last week Ashu made a great mistake by writing following sentence: "arrogant as hell, inflexible, rigid, supercilious ,chest-thumping from-the-village-to-the-best-of-univeristies-so-we-know--the-real-Nepal insufferable types (mostly bahuns)". in this public forum. This sentence will appear here or elsewhere whenever Ashu wants to feel better, Ashu heads to occupy some challenging public position where his rivals needs something to discredit him, Ashu is appointed by govt. (either king g or any political parties) to hold public post. Ashu will be alieniated (spl?) from non-Ktmduties, his colleagues who do not want to surf in the same boat will keep on disseminating this line of arrogance to peoples to make him feel down. Well, at this moment, Ashu might claim that it won't make him feel bad, but, when it comes to occupying public positions, these sentences will surely be annoying and soft shouting or hard shouting won't help, and neither apology will be regarded. As early as he corrects those lines or comes up with solid evidence, otherwise, I am sure these will and SHOULD hurt him. A man of his capability should not have spelled those words. I surely did not like it. Because those who come from villages are probably 1 in hundred if not thousand, but, those who come from St. Xavier (ashu's school) have all 80-90% successful ratio and they should not be that much jealous over village boys who after life long struggle get admission in best universities, that was surely a medal much valued than a Gorkha Dakchin Bahu for Ashu like Ktm's never suffering school's graduates. What is solution? I am not an ivy league graduate, so I don't know exact solution, neither there is any mathematical solutions. What I see is to publicly write a regret message if not apology over the use of the words in the sentence that humiliated those hard working rare guys who were probably best of the bests. If there were equal opportunities to all Nepalis the same way Ashu and other ivy league school graduates in KTM had, why not they ask questions would you be in the same position that you are today? Should a person with extreme priveleges speak those words? Should he be offered a public position, where he is supposed to be working in the welfare of those village boys whose leaders were humiliated by him so much? Can he really work well, unbiased when his views are so much biased? Should we trust him? I am not talking about Ashu as person, but, I am talking about a person who looked like a representative of Ktm Bahun? Oops, aba K garne ta? Tyo sentence ko clone ko result herne. Regards. GP |
| ashu | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 08:54 PM
Rishi-ji, Let me make myself clear: I was NOT painting everyone by the same brush. I am sorry if Igave ypou that impression. I do have a number of friends, from Pramod Mishra to GB Banjara onward, who struggled hard in their villages and eventually got themselves into top universities and top professions. I respect and admire their achievements, and am proud to be their friens. Doubtless, there are many out there like them, and I salute them. It's when some, NOT all, with similar backgrounds start using their once-upon-a-village credentials to portray themselves as morally superior species among Nepalis, thereby usurping the right to be dismissive and contemptuous of others and so on . . it's at that time that I start to have problems, and I do want to confront them, and that's NOT an easy, nor popular thing to do. **** Rishi wrote: "Girija's bad and good behavior doesn't make democracy wrong, neither make king right." Let me make myself clear: I do NOT support the King's move, but I accept the fact that now that the King has indeed become a political player, he needs to be beaten at his own game. And the way he needs to be beaten at his own game is NOT by bad-mouthing him or beng intransigent (which are pretty stpid strategies) , but exploiting opportunities to corner hm, to rein him in. My anger with Girija is that he is so goddamn inflexible that t seems that he would rather let the country burn and people die THAN exploiting oportunities to rein in the king, even if that meant making concessions in the short run to WIN BIG in the long run. PS: For the past two weeks, I have attending the Andolan for about 45 minutes or so every day as a bytander, and the things I see there does NOT inspire confidence about Girija, and I worry that he's not clever enough to match the King's deviousness. oohi ashu |
| nsshrestha | Posted
on 06-Jun-04 10:08 PM
Ashu, >> but exploiting opportunities to corner him, to rein him in. Can we have some tutorials on how could it be done? |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 09:39 AM
Sitara miss, To tell you the truth, I didn't forsee this one coming..so, you got me here. But again, there's this same question of your very existence as a poster if I don't answer your questions. Although I am well aware of the fact that even my best attempt to answer your questions is a F- on your bell curve, I will try my best :-) 1. K eestupeedity ni, Sitara miss? I have learned a lot from you- from Japan to Nepal, from a bunch of girls ordering their Margaritas in a bar somewhere near Dupont Circle to a woman's attempt to move on with her life despite some bitter experience(s) in life. So, let me be the one who is stupid, rigid and arrogant. Sicne you are my Guru, and GURUS are Parah Bramha and I should respect my GURUS as Saxyat Parah Bramha..Tasmai Shri Guruwe Nama, becuase they are the oens who teach you the way or Dao ( in Chinese) to choose in this complex universe - Akhanda Mandala Karam, Byaptam Yena CharaCharam.. Tatpadam Darshitam Yena, Tashmai Shri Gurawye Nama:). :-).. I just wish you were my Guru of Love, and I were your sishya of affection. Tara, k garney.. cest la vie. Now, let your humble Sishya say something.. or as the French would say.. back to the gallery (forgot the exact French trasnlation :-). 1. They are answerable to the People of Nepal only when the charges against them are VALID and LEGITIAMATE. Come on they don't have to answer to every accusatuion/allegation against them that origin in some bhatti pasal. The question of atrocities is a serious one. So far there's not a single charge against them of having committed atrocity(-ies). Also, so far there's no single case of corruption by the royals. About spending: George Bush flies on the Air Force One not on TWA or Southwest bargain tickets. The Head of State has to mentain his/her status. A King has to live like a King. Simple, hoina? 2. About my foilial loyalty and all: Well, Sitara let's not talk about it. I support the King because I believe in the institution of monarchy. I think we need the institution, if our nation is to move forward. This is my belief, and I have as much rights as you have to defend my beliefs, hoina? Hoina bhane hoina bhannus? aaba Sitara miss jasto janne bujhne, padheko lekheko, sansar ghumeko-dekheko manche interprets voicing of my "dis-satisfation" as my "wrath", maile bhannu k cha ra? But honestly, all jokes, politeness, modesty aside: Isn't democracy accepting the fact that there are many people who DON"T necessarily agree with you? The Royalists have no problem accepting that there are forces that think very differently than them, but why the non-royalists can't think this way, and always consider themselves the "CUSTODIAN" of democracy in Nepal? Does being a democrat mean being unnecessarily critical of the King all the time? I don't think so. The problem in Sajha is we have cliques. You belong to a Republican-Semi Republican clique. I belong to a totally different clique. My belonging to a different clique doesn't mean that I am stupid, idiot and less democratic than you are, or does it? Khoi ba.. thaha bhayena. What about a lecture on this on our Monday's class? Will be waiting for it. Also, Sitara Miss, I am not someone who holds personal grudges against people who think very differently than I do. I am friends with many people, from Sajha, School, Work whose thinking is way WAY way different than me. I have no problems people thinking differently. They have their righst to do that, HOWEVER, they have to understand one thing: I have my rights to think differently than them.. hoina? (I am lucky so far.. I have 200 friends with 200 diff. perspectives from Sajha and elsewhere, who understand this and for whom being a democrat means respecting each other's (Hu Xiang, in Chinese) ideas, not criticizing or ridiculing them for that. Being a student of Humanities/Social Sicences has taught me one thing: Do question the established facts WHEN you know you have enough knowledge/experience to challenge them. Since I am a student with no expertise or experience unlike some informed, educated, smart and intelliegent Sajhaites, I am not in a position to challenge/question the conventional wisdom because I am yet to challenge my thinking (and I am not ashamed to say that my knowledge so far is not enough to do this) by the process of Induction, Deduction and Verification. So for now, I believe in Hobbes, I believe in Machiavelli, I believe in Realism, I believe in Benedict's Normality vs. Abnormality and I believe in the Chrysanthamum throne and the Boshido code and I believe in the Raj Simhasan and Raj Danda. Maybe I'm a sore looser with no thinking of his own, maybe I am.. but you know, I won't even think about the alternatives to all those I mentioned unless and until I find myself ready to do it. Until then, I remain an idiot. with apologies, a Freak |
| ashu | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 09:55 AM
nsshrestha, Sure. Here's tutorial number one: 1. Accept the fact that Deuba's appointment is NOT a perfect solution, but that it's a good-enough INTERIM compromise. Allow the king his face-saving step for now. 2. Stop the agitation around Ratna Park and join Deuba in forming the cabinet. 3. The aim is to make the tenure of this Deuba government as short as possible by preparing for elections to be conducted in phases; the sooner the better. [Don't worry about trying to get the Maoists to the negotiation table yet.] 4. Appeal to the international community to come in as election observers. Ask for money if necessary. 5. If the Maoists start giving hell, then use that fact against them in front of the internatioal community. 6. Win the elections by earning a FRESH mandate from the public; form a new ELECTED representative government and basically tell the King to go take a hike inside the Durbar. Then, make arrangements to sit down with the Maoists to do the negotiations. 7. Again, the aim is to NOT give any further excuse to the King NOW to prolong his rule. A strategy is to make some calculated short-term concessions to go for long-term gains. [Even the Supreme Court said last year that the old parliament cannot be reinstated; so harping the mantra of reinstatement is utterly self-serving.] oohi ashu |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 10:15 AM
ashu dai, wo wan quan tong yi - I totally agree with you. Instead of blaming the King, the parties have to come up with a strategy. kach-kach garera matra bhayena ni ready for an early October Fest in Ktm? Please check out the Korean Airlines thread. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 10:43 AM
IF ji: Let's cut to the chase, shall we? You see, I lack the finesse to beat around the political bush. You have typed everything but the answer I was seeking: -Who has the power to investigate/stop corruptions and frivolous spendings committed by the ruling family; or, do they hold absolute, unmonitored, unlimitted power?! As for forging friendships beyond political boundaries; I do have monarchist friends who do not give in to an emotional outrage when questioned about the KING'S/Royalty's RIGHTS. Fortunately for me, they do not confuse my questions as directed to their own rights to be a monarchist, neither do they confusedly assume that I would like for them to change their ideologies!!! You see, IF ji, remain a monarchist, royalist, empire-cist, the matter is irrelevant because you are just another Nepali subject like me BUT, the moment you wear a crown and ascend the throne of a country, you are answerable to the people of the nation; you are bound by the law of the nation NOT ABOVE it. Gone are the days of "DIVINE RIGHTS"! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 10:54 AM
alright, as youi say, let's be direct and i will skip the preface and foreword on this one: 1. Come on, when the cahrges against them origin at a bhatti pasal or is a result of wil wilsd imagination on part of some sajhaities not in Nepal, why should any authoprity even bother about checking those unsubstantial, unverifies and invalid charges against them? Give me an instance when you thought the royals were enjoying above-average powers in Nepal. [I hate to say this to my Prof., but you did not read my reply carefully.. because I answered your question on spenindg there. can i request you to change my grade now? ] Did I answer your question now? Sitara ji, I did NOT give you any emotional outrage. I merely asked you how to interpret your sentences. You say, "It is black" and when someone asks you why it is black or how it is black, you say, well "I was implying its not white". aaba haami jasto students le yaha ko tyasto deep sentences kasari bujhne. Plus, I am just asking you: What makes you think the Royal family is evil? I am not asking you anything else. aaba kura ra chewing gum jata tankayo tyatai tankincha.. until you provide answers to my questions, I remain amazed- and amuzed, your's fairthfully, a Freak |
| SITARA | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 10:54 AM
Nsshrestha ji, I am aware; should I beware too? :) I agree, when political opinions become personal identities, the gist of the discussions get lost; sadly, the "marmay" of my questions is deliberately lost because there aren't any logically justifiable answers to them! |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 10:56 AM
bhayenkaar spellinmg errors.. sachyartea padhnu hola.. an idiot Freat |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 10:56 AM
bhayenkar spellinmg errors...sachyarea padhnu hola an idiot Freak |
| SITARA | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 11:00 AM
IF ji: Please read THIS question again! -WHO has the power to investigate/stop corruptions and frivolous spendings committed (IF ANY) by the ruling family; or, do they hold absolute, unmonitored, unlimitted power?! Just answer this, please.... it will assuage my intense curiousity! Thank you, I really do appreciate it. As for your remaining amused, I am glad, I do have my uses you see! :) |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 11:08 AM
well, sitara jyu, you never fail to amuse me. Sitara, I am sure you have read the constitution of Nepal, so you know the answer yourself. Why ask a student? However, if you insist: The answer to your question is: there's no authority in Nepal that can question the royal mis-doings, because the whole constitution is based on "the King can do no wrong" principle. But there are examples of internal Royal Court taking actions against those who violate the royal protocol. come on siatra jyu, amuse me more. Already willing and waiting to be amused by you. your's truly, a Freak |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 11:21 AM
also, i don't udenrstand why my prof is always unhappy even when i answer her questions to the best of my ability. gajjab cha ba! |
| saroj | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 01:47 PM
I used to admire Isolated_freak's stand on things but in this particular thread his coherency is questionable - delving into the woman from Dupont circle who's trying to move on with her life despite some bitter experience - was pretty unnecessary and leaves behind a bad aftertaste, in addition to his futile attempts at eliciting humor. And few people trying to gang up on ashu and ashu deliberately ignoring them, making them twill their fingers in anxiety and making them chew up their nails in agony of being ignored - well not literally but in general. I myself am not too much into politics but I enjoy discussions. It's difficult to express your opinions without sounding too brutal or rude, but kudos to those who can do it. Those who can do it know who they are. Those who don't, well you need to work on it a little bit. It's probably good for your blood pressure. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 02:29 PM
However, if you insist: The answer to your question is: there's no authority in Nepal that can question the royal mis-doings, because the whole constitution is based on "the King can do no wrong" principle. But there are examples of internal Royal Court taking actions against those who violate the royal protocol. >>> Isolated Freak Aha! FINALLY, we are getting somewhere IF ji! -So, if "THE KING CAN DO NO WRONG", and therefore above the laws, the Royal massacres (as reportedly committed by the Crown Prince) was NOT a crime, Right?! -OK, let's say, the massacre was considered a crime while the prince remained a Crown Prince, HE would have been absolved after he was crowned the king of Nepal,... (Since The NEW King CAN DO NO WRONG!) correct? -Given such a premis, the attrocities of the royal massacre would no longer be considered an attrocity because it was committed by the king... who can do no wrong! So, do answer me, IF ji the Royal Family CAN get away with murder, whether it is a royal massacre or a mere subject????!!! Interesting indeed! And you ask why the people of Nepal want either a CONSTITUTIONAL monarchy or a Republic Nepal??! About The Internal Royal Protocol: How internal is internal...that which is unwritten, unverbalized and unproven or that which can't be taken to court on a fair public trial???? Yes, I know, IF ji, many more Sajhaites are amused! Again, glad to be of some service in the political amusement industry, it does not take much!!! ********************************** Saroj ji: Keen observer! You are able to identify contexually challenged statements, irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Thank you for voicing it. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 02:55 PM
Wow! Now, I have unravelled the mystery of the "UNEVIL Kings/royalties": Logically put, on the premis granted by the Constitution: "The king can do no wrong!": If no action committed by the king is a crime, then no crime is evil! If no crime is evil, then, "Evil" is not a royal condition! And therefore, How dare Biswo break the sacred constitution by using the word "EVIL" while referring to the king!!!!! |
| GP | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 04:55 PM
Biggest thing that lack among my fellow Nepalis is the lack of "Negotiation" / skill of Negotiation. They are so idealistic that they will want to pose "mero goruko barhai takka". They forget that there is a time factor and the life of Goru is reducing every day thus, depreciation keep on continues that the cost of Goru yesterday and today is different and when the goru is gets older and older finally the owner has to pay to dump the old goru while buyer has to find another seller wasting productivity. Now, Sajhaities here and Parties in Nepal are wrestling by claiming that there is only black and white, that there is no gray zone and thats why there is no possibility of "negotiation"......... In democracy, NEGOTIATION is the power to people. If we can not negotiate, our time is running out and our country is turing towards a failed state. The discussions in this forum --micro Nepal-- lacks negotiation and retreat (retreat is a part of negotiation). GP |
| nsshrestha | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 06:57 PM
Ashu, Thanks for tutorial. >>exploiting opportunities to corner him, to rein him in. I think it has been the major issue of Nepali politics last 54 years. Nepali politics evolved/revolved around it. In last 54 years this is all we are trying to achieve. Have we yet? No, It is easier said than done. Should an oligarch be trusted? No. We have tried that in 2015. BP Koirala acted on your tutorial no 7. What was the result? We know it clearly. We gave some concession in 2048, and you know the current situation now. Our own Rana Bahadur Shah wrote a letter to Nepal Durbar from Banaras on power sharing with East India Company ý Chhori diyera Jwai banainchha, Swasni diyera jwai banaidaina. If we could not come strong enough, Maharaj will be asking for more, mane Swasni :) Ok, Now, I am ready for tutorial number Two. |
| ashu | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 08:04 PM
nsshresha wrote: "It is easier said than done." Agreed. Nobody really knows how the future unfolds: all we can do is take the present as it is, and then make some probability-based assumptions about the future, and hope that we turn out to be correct. For a fascinating tutorial on that kind of "expecting the unexpected" thinking, let's learn from this Wall Street trader. http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/taleb04/taleb_indexx.html oohi ashu |
| GP | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 08:52 PM
Nice Quote: Chhori diyera Jwai banainchha, Swasni diyera jwai banaidaina. |
| Kurikuri | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 09:27 PM
Nice hints Ashu, and nice commenmt about Jwai bahayeng. However, what are the best possible options available and what best can be achieved out of the limited available options is the need of the time. One fact that gene that express ledepean (stubbornity) is very strongly express in our genes and compromise is hard to come as evident by our many examples both within and without the Sajhaland. Moreover, when back stabbing is so prevalent among Nepalese, no doubt the smartest of them takes the rein. In this aspect king being an inherent of such genes that could rule us so long, no doubt comes out superior over others that have yet to mutate and evolve to be dominant. |
| mack | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 09:42 PM
can anyone tell me what could be worse than this in Nepal? The worst of the worst case scenario. |
| An Indun Poet | Posted
on 07-Jun-04 10:44 PM
What a Girija? Can he ever be trusted? He goes to the King and says-- "Either the PM should be from NC or Surya Bdr is fine" and he goes out to shake hands with Makune. What a load of shit!!! Girjia, the power player, he needs to be punished one way or the other, that is politically. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 12:37 PM
Look Sitara, instead of answering my questions, you are asking me questions, and I don't care what any saroj-manoj-binod has to say. I have asked you a few questions, why don't you answer those? anyways, your questions re: the royal massacre makes no sense whatsoever and you are just playing with words here. Go ahead, defend whoever you want with your quite idotic questions. I give you an A+. I have my tests this week, so forgive me, i will not be able to amuse you and amaze you. Your other minute observers are capable to work as "replacement" for a week. aafu chahi questions ko answers nagarne, student lai matra question gari rakhne.. kasto teacher ho yo ba? my questions were: what makes the royal institution evil? how we interpret youir vague sentences and your attempts to defend those? why don't you answer my questions first instead of asking me irrelevant questions- your wah wah people will be even more gratefuul to you if you answer my questions before you post counter-questions. Look sitara, you have a brilliant chocie of words, and some people with no analytical mind might get impressed by your ability to play with words. However, I am not one of those impressed and influenced people.. and going by your logic, I would like you to answer my questions -which I asked before you bombarded with more irrelevant questions- so that WE go somewhere. Look, you are a vague person. The more diplomatic you try to be with your words, the more undiplomatic and biased you seem: you never answer my questions. you defend your points by saying.. well, it wasn't to be taken literally.. and other wierd zen explanation. Unless and until you provide me with answers to my questions, i.e, what justifies the use of word EVIL and orther questions, I will not waste my time and energy arguing with someone who is not well-versed in politics. Come on, we all go to a doc when we have health problems, not to a teacher, right? Alright I have a few more tests next week, and until then you can keep on displaying your maha-nata- so others get impressed more with your taal-na-ssur ko hypothetical questions. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 01:06 PM
also Siatra miss, if you wnat to do political analysis, come down to reality. In politics, we don't study what would have happened if something wouldn't have happened. Instead we study, since this happened, how it affected the functioning of the country and the world. For example: You cannot ask what would have happened if Ferdinand hadn't been shot by some Serbian nationalists. You ask, what happened after Arch Duke Ferdinand got shot? Similarly, we don't ask, what would have happened if Hitler hadn't come to power, we ask, what happened after Hitler came to power. We don't ask what would ahppeend bettwwen the Hutus and Tutsis, we ask, what made it all happen. We don't ask what would ahve happened if Al Gore was the President, we ask what's happening now sicne Geroge Bush is the President. Whether you like it or not, whether you want it or not, some things happen and instead of saying what would have happened if 9/11 wouldn't have happened, you ask what happened afetr 9/11. So you see, Poliitics, Literature and Pedagogy are different things. We believe in Political Realism, that is, this is this right now and in this scenario how do we maximize our interests. We don't ask, what would have happened if this hadn't taken p lace because it makes no sense whatsoever in politics to think about a different past and ask hypothetical questions. You have to accept what's around you, and learn to deal with it, with or without compromising your principles, and this is 101 of Politics for you. Like ashu said, its accepting what happened and making startegy(-ies ) to deal with it. Its not denying the reality. Its not living in dreams. Its not saying, yesto bhayeko bhaye k hunthyo. or yesto bhaye k hunthyo.. its more, yesto bhayo aaba k garne? Read some Realist literature on this. And The Prince by Machiavelli or Arthasastra by Chanakya or your favorite Kautilya is awlays a good place to start. namaste. You won, I loose. Give me a F and to tell you the truth, it won't affect my major GPA in any way because I am not a Lit major and I don't want to make my living as a writer or a teacher :-) I wholeheartedly accept my defeat.... a Freaky looser, IF |
| mack | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 01:21 PM
this thread is all about word game, its called verbal dierrhea constipation of idea. I wish all of you could explain complex thoughts in simple english without having me to use a dictionary 5 times per paragraph. |
| saroj | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 01:21 PM
Looks like someone's really losing sleep over things here. In the discussion here noone has the role of a teacher or what not, and to continuously address Sitara as a teacher with sarcasm I think does not befit a mature discussion. But what do i know, as has been promulgated, saroj manoj binod are a dime a dozen and not worthy of acknowledgement. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 01:25 PM
loaxatives=laxatives |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 01:25 PM
mack, why don't you take some loaxatives instead? :-) All will make sense to you if you come here with an empty stomach.. aarghghh an empty mind. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 01:28 PM
saroj, yeah.. I am loosing sleep here ebcause they don't prescribe Valium here.. k garney..and I am not in a country where hitting the communal bong occassionally is legally accepted:-) |
| sense | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 01:41 PM
hey IF n Sitara have u ever watched a match in a tennis court??.... well me n a lot of others r big fan of u guys but our necks r aching by ur infinite sets n scores ...what abt taking some rest n give sometime to cheer up ur fans aswell??:) |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 01:53 PM
alright, I will not try to pass on my "shit" to you, Sense dude. Happy now? All of last night I, along with some students, were discussing what makes us unhapy and a dude named Omar- an Eton grad and the late Prince's friend- came up with this brilliant explanation (afetr finishing the remaining 15 cigs on that communal pack of Camel cigs) that, we all try to pass on our shit to opthers because we are full of shit... since others don't want to acquire more shit than they already have, they defend themselves by throwing back the shit you give to them by adding some of their own shit..And we are unhappy because we carry our own shit + somebody else's shit. So I won't be pasing on more shit unless I get more shit from others. So no Mciheal chang vs. Baker game here...(OK I am old...) |
| tauke | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 02:03 PM
Billy Jean King vs Bobby Riggs eh? |
| GP | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 02:05 PM
IF ji, you are right: "Look, you are a vague person. The more diplomatic you try to be with your words, the more undiplomatic and biased you seem: you never answer my questions.". Gudi bina ko discussion, just with playing of words does not make any sense. I liked that observation. I wish you all the best in your exams. GP |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 02:08 PM
aaiya tauke bro, not that old.. i am not offended since my hair is turning white for weird reasons, but Sitara might get offended.. :-) |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 02:22 PM
Guruji, arigato. just got back from a dinner when i finally said "mankou wo nametai yo " to a kirei/kawai Jap girl, I am just happy.. k bhaneny.. life goes on Guruji, whether's its a yes or no, what do you say? |
| GP | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 03:27 PM
IF ji a tip on Jap lang. kirei -- beautiful (young ladies to old ladies) kawai -- cute (used to girls) Never tell "timro chhori(kid girl) ta khubai kirei desu ne in front of mother", that is offending the mother. Mother should be called "kirei' and daughter (<18) should be kawai, and all adult woman should be kirei. When she is cute, she is not sexy, so kawai girl is cute. If she look sexy (=smart /charming woman) and/ beautiful lady then both of them are kirei. In Japan an adult girl/woman is beautiful: if she has 1. long leg (body /leg > 0.5) 2. mriga ka jasta ankha 3. big bust-- Cup D or higher. Japanese woman openly appreciate other woman's bust in front of males. Thats amazing. 4. How slim you are? (not at expense of Bust). 5. Hair coloring --blonde color. 6. polite sound. 7. respect male.... (thats truth whether you accept or not). 8. Thulo nidar 9. relatively big sized ear -kaan ka loti. 10. Chuchche naak. 11. lamo ghati (length between bust line to buttom of chiudo). 12. High hill lagauda ya nalagaikan ko thai and muscles. These are based on my observations watching public TV shows and ..... GP |
| Nepe | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 03:28 PM
Ashu wrote: Here's tutorial number one: 1. Accept the fact that Deuba's appointment is NOT a perfect solution, but that it's a good-enough INTERIM compromise. Allow the king his face-saving step for now. 2. Stop the agitation around Ratna Park and join Deuba in forming the cabinet. 3. The aim is to make the tenure of this Deuba government as short as possible by preparing for elections to be conducted in phases; the sooner the better. [Don't worry about trying to get the Maoists to the negotiation table yet.] 4. Appeal to the international community to come in as election observers. Ask for money if necessary. 5. If the Maoists start giving hell, then use that fact against them in front of the internatioal community. 6. Win the elections by earning a FRESH mandate from the public; form a new ELECTED representative government and basically tell the King to go take a hike inside the Durbar. Then, make arrangements to sit down with the Maoists to do the negotiations. 7. Again, the aim is to NOT give any further excuse to the King NOW to prolong his rule. A strategy is to make some calculated short-term concessions to go for long-term gains. [Even the Supreme Court said last year that the old parliament cannot be reinstated; so harping the mantra of reinstatement is utterly self-serving.] This is the most unambiguous and detailed view Ashu ever shared in Sajha. The last time he said something without any ambiguity was- let's leave that for now. So first of all, let me applaud Ashu for this unambiguous and quite reasonable sounding view he shared with us. Now to the ideas themselves. Although it is not clear whether these are Ashu's personal views/convictions too or are just some arulai-fokut-ma-diyeko-sallah that he does not share himself, I see he has given reasonable advice to Girija- assuming he is what he is- although I do not think 'inflexibilty' best describes Girija. Unstability and lack of principles are what best describe Girija Babu. So are other top leaders- Madhav and Sher Bahadur. Baburam's adjective- Shikhandi- to Sher Bahadur is hardly inaccurate. Anyway, Since these guys still seen to be saying they can right everything in the country, if things goes back to pre-asoj-17 era, there is no reason not to follow Ashu's prescription. Particularly seeing how '18 points agenda' is becoming a thing of personal burden to these leaders, I am not going to be surprised if they indeed followed the path shown by Deuba- of course at a price, immediate or near-future, to be alienated from the civil society and a lot of the followers. Now, if Ashu's prescription is indeed his own conviction, this is more interesting. Because this does not correspond to his claim of ambivalence and more importantly it does not explain the dramatic temperature his blood raises to, whenever he sees an aspirant of the republic Nepal. What it does show, however, is how this person is bekhabar of how our society is changing, how popular voice is changing and how that has started to shape our politics, how it has already become beyond Girija, Madhav, Sher and Sherchans capacity to address problems of today, how the palace is the prisoner of history and how a benevolent monarch is an utopian dream in Nepal's reality, how the questions of monarchy and the Maoists are intimately connected, how Loktantra-in forms of both a movement and a point of meeting and common resolve for Nepali people, of today and tomorrow - is the only possible, sustainable and desirable path and solution to our problem and tool for our progress- in other words, how it is not inching towards an unknown outcome of the game of greedy politicians and ambitious King but paving the way for popular decision to all major questions is to end this conflict permanently, without controversy and in right way. OK before I do further elaboration of my point by performing surgery on Ashu's prescription, let me first be sure they are Ashu's personal convictions. Are they, Ashu Tiwari ji ? Particularly, the idea of confining the King inside the palace, the way to deal with the Maoists and the futility (my own deduction) of popular movement for now? |
| sense | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 03:55 PM
Yess yess I agree completely with Ashu's points ......why r we making it more complicated ....as GP said we have a habit of 'mero goru ko barai takka' ..no negotiations accepted IF take a break man n try to throw ur shit on camel then expect a good return from the same camel..I am sure its more refreshing than aquarious or smirn off ice :) chill out bro |
| SITARA | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 05:12 PM
IF ji Shati hajur, shanti! Darshan to you; white hair and all! :) You must be studying too hard trying to justify the divine rights of the monarchy... as for me, I am growing white hair so I won't have to dye them platinum blond! ;) I was questioning the realities in the application of the constitution's version of "The king can do no wrong!"! Sire, YOUR interpretation, YOU gave to me! Wherever did I say the "institution of constitutional monarchy is evil"???!!! Or did you assume I implied? He he IF ji, like you, I had nothing to do except kill time...at leisure! :) Yes, hajur... I made my points, through your answers! Fortunately for me, I cannot sustain my curiousity in politics by mere utopian theories; so yes, hajur...I will wish you a wonderful exam week; please do not under any condition give into emotional outrage while defending your position; as my Sociology/political science professor used to say, "DON"T attempt to use political information you can't defend logically, the constitution should not be interpreted as blind faith!!!!" ******************** GP ji, I truly agree with what you have agreed; yes, much of whatever I have written or write in the future WILL remain incomprensible and/or vague TO YOU.... Fortunately, I am not responsible for your Phd. or how you acquired it! |
| GP | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 06:46 PM
Finally, getting personalized..... Reject ideas, not the persons. GP |
| GP | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 06:52 PM
Thapadi maar, you thappad mara? Thappadi maar nu bhanya afu le afailai pitnu, where you know the pain thats why you have to control the force. While Thappad marda its one way "maar", so you have less pain because you know where to hit so that you have less pain and your receiving side has heavy pain. Kisne kisko kis issue par thap(p)ad(i) mara? ............ Herne lai mazza. .... IF ji I like to see thap thap (= or + some extra). GP |
| ashu | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 07:02 PM
Nepe wrote: "Now, if Ashu's prescription is indeed his own conviction, this is more interesting." Nepe, yes, that is indeed my conviction. The point is to take the country FORWARD, and not stall things and take the nation backward. ******* Nepe wrote: "Because this does not correspond to his claim of ambivalence and more importantly it does not explain the dramatic temperature his blood raises to, whenever he sees an aspirant of the republic Nepal." The truth is: My views are evolving based on what I see here in Nepal. Still, I am NOT a hard-core republican like you are. I did ask you some really sharp and aggressive questions last year because I felt that republicanism was drowining in its own set of axioms, and that those axioms needed to be re-examined and unchallenged. I am sorry that you still think that my no-holds-barred questions indicated a "dramatic [rise] [in my] blood temperature". On a larger note, rather than pushing the King out of Nepal altogether, I am more comfortable if he stays within the constitutional limits (let's revise those limits, if necessary), and if our to-be-formed parliament learns to exert its authority with confidence vis-a-vis the palace. The King's move, after all, is dependent upon the parties' move. oohi ashu |
| ashu | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 07:05 PM
PLEASE READ: "that those axioms needed to be re-examined and unchallenged." AS "that those axioms needed to be re-examined and CHALLENGED.". |
| GP | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 07:44 PM
Clearly in this forum: rejections are not TRULY based on logics, but, based on what happened in the past: "Its my time"... Now, the discussions are spiced by past feuds in this forum. e.g. Ashu vs Biswo Nepe vs Ashu New, feuds: IF vs "EVIL" word lovers. In America Bush's use of word "EVIL" is more considered as religious than its real meaning an indirect attempt to garner vote in upcoming election from certain religious sects. Whether borrowing of the word is valid. |
| SITARA | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 07:47 PM
One more thing IF ji: Never use contradictory arguments in the same context, whether in political sciences, pedagogy, literature or ... any other discipline you choose to name: "We believe in Political Realism, that is, this is this right now and in this scenario how do we maximize our interests. We don't ask, what would have happened if this hadn't taken p lace because it makes no sense whatsoever in politics to think about a different past and ask hypothetical questions.>>>> Isolated Freak " The answer to your question is: there's no authority in Nepal that can question the royal mis-doings, because the whole constitution is based on "the King can do no wrong" principle. >>>>> Isolated Freak And yet, the Nepalese constitution (as well as your ideologies???!) is based on THE HYPOTHESIS that "THE KING CAN DO NO WRONG" principle! So do forgive me for hypothesizing!!! Be well and do well in your exams! As always, I wish you the best in your studies and your personal life; I have always admired your dedication. |
| ashu | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 08:26 PM
GP-ji wrote: "Ashu vs Biswo Nepe vs Ashu New, feuds" GP-ji, I assure you and others that there is NO feud of any kind from my side, nor do I think there is any such thing from others' side. That's because I, for one, am perfectly used to the idea that opinionated Nepalis can have sharp, even heated, differences based on their ideas, and that's to be expected and accepted. What's the point of having a mind of your own, if you cannot stand up for your ideas no matter how disagreeable/unpopular your ideas might be? And so, a public display of difference of opinion need NOT imply a full-scale emotion-laden war among the protagonists, as you seem to be pressing for. True, it's been only 14 years since we Nepalis first learnt that there are indeed many sides to any story. But the idea hat we are slowly learning is that the more EXPOSURE we get to many of those sides, the DEEPER our undestanding of those issues wll be. Viewed this way, I see us making progress, slowly and surely. Let us celebreta such small collective achievements rather than developing fixations on personalities. oohi ashu |
| GP | Posted
on 08-Jun-04 08:32 PM
Well, I put my observations. Let readers judge it. GP |
| KaLaNkIsThAn | Posted
on 09-Jun-04 04:01 AM
Simply out of the flow of this thread but I gotta tell you this, I was watching a news on zee tv the other day and they had a news on Indian FM's visit to Nepal. It's great to see news of Nepal on TV but why the fkkkkkkkkkk Deuba was givin' an interview in Hindi is one thing I just couldn't understand. The PM of Nepal speaking Hindi in an international media while Indian FM Mr. Natwar was giving an interview in English... and they were together ... How bizarre. Didn't Deuba go to London school of Economics or something? I wonder what he was doing there. And what's up with constantly licking lips and getting nervous? If he is a kind of a leader we have to follow, then he, along will all the other politicians in Nepal can go to hell... How can somebody control a country when he can't even control his tongue (Remember licking lips and talking about things only he and his wife understand??). |
| KaleKrishna | Posted
on 09-Jun-04 04:14 AM
Yeah Kalanki nice observation, I was furious with his CNN live interview when he was in US, last time as premier. The way of nervousness like a kid reciting a poem in front of huge audience. This guy does not have the guts and inner strength, it is only his luck that has made him what he is today. Somebody was mentioning his panchayat era torture has something to do with lip licking, but the nervousness and lack of proper words to express cannot be overlooked. Hope, he matures fast to lead the nation, a responsibility that he always seems to enjoy and as lady luck would have it, seems to follow him. KK |
| An Indun Poet | Posted
on 09-Jun-04 05:32 AM
Did Sher Bdr just attend LSE or he had a degree from there? Does anyone know? I would Pashchim would know, but he is nowhere in site these days. Girjia is a Matric Pass (I don't know what that means). King G probably has a bachelors degree-- but he probably might have few honorary kiss ass Doctorate as well. And the other thing is Prince P is probably the most illeterate of them all. If he hadn't cheated, with the help of some teachers (from Budhanilkantha who as well are up somewhere in the beaurocracy as well) in SLC I bet he would have flunked big time. I heard his score in SLC is as good as of the top 10 toppers but his name was never mentioned. Prince P then headed to Luther College in Iowa just to be kicked out of there for obvious reasons-- too much partying and getting into fights. Hope he will be a Great King some day. |
| allare | Posted
on 09-Jun-04 09:21 AM
No matter how incompetent, Deuba was/is, but his (or better say UMLisied) address to the nation today show some glimpse of hope. If he can be honest to his address and work on them, then I see, Nepal coming back slowly from dark phase. Though it might be positive, but I wonder, how logical it is to revive the defunt local bodies. Does not it give more imporatnace to the voice of reinstatating the dissolved parliament, which seems outdated demand. allare. |
| observer | Posted
on 09-Jun-04 04:31 PM
Deuba has his own website: - http://www.pmo.gov.np/index.html |
| paramendra | Posted
on 09-Jun-04 04:42 PM
The demands of the likes of Girija remind me of the demands of the likes of the Maoists. Their 40-point demand that became the basis for their intensified insurgency is basically a wish list. Vague statements like ýmake Nepal rich.ý Such goals are not multiple choice questions. If you only opted for the right answer, the magic would happen! Does not work that way. Girijaýs scheme is to put him back center-stage, or he would not have maneuvered at the last stage to get Madhav Nepal out of the prime ministerial reckoning. His goal was to get Thapa out and the parliament in, one that can not be brought back under the current constitution. Its term has expired. And even if it had not, it could not be brought back. An elected Prime Minister Deuba got rid of the parliament: it was not the king. And Deuba made that move at a point when Koirala was about to corner him again in his quest to prove his personal indispensability. It has been an ego-war for Koirala. Like it or not, the king is a player. It is people like Girija and Madhav Nepal who let the king retain control of the army in 1990. They have the option to now take that away. But they are naýve in hoping the king would do that for them. Instead, they have the option to participate in the Deuba government, and forge a peace with the Maoists. If they are that unhappy with the king, why donýt they opt for a republic! They despise the kingýs powers, but see the kingýs exercise of that power to fulfill their political fantassies as their only salvation! Curious. Girija and his corrupt cronies are directly responsible for the breakdown in the countryýs politics. King G is more corrupt than all of Girijaýs cronies put together, as the huge increase in the palace budget shows. The point is, the solution is not in the past. There is no golden age we can go back to. It is time to define goals and pursue them. Build coalitions to achieve them. I mean, so Girija is so ýdemocratic,ý he would rather align with the king than with Deuba! That is power politics. Looks to me like Girija wants to be king! I am not in favor of King G. He is a shrewd player who amassed as much power as he could to fill the vacuum. He acted out of self-interest. Personally I am a republican, but I think it is for the Nepali people, perhaps in a referendum, to decide whether they want to keep the monarchy or not. If they opt to keep it, then it should stick around. If not, it should go. And I am no fan of the current constitution. It should go. To sum it up, I would be just fine with a constituent assembly, if only because it also might bring the civil war to an end. But look at the sequence of events. The king might not be a democratic hero, but donýt blame him for Girijaýs inflexible, undemocratic style of operating, and the corruption of the Congress in the 1990s. Look at the details. (1) The Maoist insurgency was already there when King G came along. He did not invent it. (2) It was Deuba and not King G who disbanded the parliament. And there is nothing in the constitution that would allow the king to revive that parliament. Besides it was Koiralaýs cornening of Deuba that pushed Deuba to get rid of the parliament. And a new parliament could not come up because of the Maoists. (3) Chand and Thapa do not look good on King G. But then I do not believe he is a democrat at heart, he is a monarch. He will not voluntarily go back to being a mere ritual. And look at the new reality. The Maoist insurgency is the biggest reality. And the only way to tackle it is would be for all the parties to come together for a one-point agenda: to talk to the Maoists. But then you have to understand Girija. The guy is inflexible. Common minimum programs are not his cup of tea. It is my way or highway in Girijadom. Do I agree with King Gýs appointment of Deuba? I have very mixed feelings. But he is better than Chand and Thapa, far better. But what I more obviously disagree with is Girija hoping the king would himself agree to the so-called 18-point demand. This king is not going to voluntarily reduce the role of the monarchy. But he will not have the option to not accept a reduced or eliminated monarchy if all the other forces come together, and that means making peace with the Maoists. Bottom line, Girija does not see the Maoist insurgency as the number one problem in the country on which he could work together with Deuba, Nepal, and just about anyone else. That is naýve, and wrong. P.S. Sitara, IF is a monarchist like you are a democrat. It is amazing how relatively literate guys can be so hung up on Mahendra who was an autocrat and thatýs about it. So I suggest you accept the difference as one of opinion and ideology and leave it at that. Although I must say I share your sentiments of disgust. But you are wasting your time in a discussion that is not really an exchange of ideas or even opinions, but more of a person repeating himself over and over again. You are way too smart and open-minded for this ýlowý back-and-forth. P.S.S. If it is some solace to you, it has been widely rumored the monarchists are an endangered species! P.S.S.S. ýI believe in Hobbes, I believe in Machiavelli..ý You can not BELIEVE in Machiavelli, since Machiavelli is not a belief system, stupid. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 09-Jun-04 04:46 PM
On another note, I favor it that the Deuba Congress has talked of federalism, if only due to the influence of the likes of Bimalendra Nidhi. So if these guys can bring up the possibilities of both a constituent assembly and federalism, there must be something to them. |
| Nepe | Posted
on 15-Jun-04 03:49 PM
Picking up the thread again. Ashu wrote: I did ask you some really sharp and aggressive questions last year because I felt that republicanism was drowining in its own set of axioms, and that those axioms needed to be re-examined and challenged. It would have been really good if you indeed had done what you seem to be claiming here- rescuing republicanism from drowning in its own set of axioms. Unfortunately, that was not the case. You did not ask any specific questions. You just questioned republicanism wholesale. And the worst, you were trying to drown the republicanism when in fact it was/is immerging from the sea of denial, re-examining and challenging the denial and the years, lives, minds and money we wasted to save the King for no worthy reason. And the way you tried to drown the republicanism was spectacular. You had made a grand dismissal about the rise of republicanism in Nepal. I don't know how you have lived with that dismissal. However, every time I remember your dismissal, I remember another immortal quote of our time- "There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never ! " Let's check out Bagdad. Results from the students' referendum on the Monarchy. Campus--------------------------------Republic---------C.M.---------Monarchy TU Central Campus -------------------5269---------364---------63 Janapriya Campus, Pokhara ---------1638---------143---------24 Siddanath Campus, Kanchanpur-----601----------75----------41 PN Campus, Pokhara------------------4849---------89--------- 60 Tribhuvan Campus, Palpa-------------1198---------160---------30 Pashupati Campus, Chabahil---------1182---------197---------17 Krishi Campus, Rampur----------------186---------38---------17 MMM Campus, Biratnagar------------2801---------319---------171 Vindyabasini Campus, Pokhara----------99---------2---------4 Butwal Campus, Butwal----------------2021---------27---------20 Birendra Campus, Chitwan---------------810---------43---------19 Saptagandaki CAmpus, Chitwan--------660---------21---------11 Kailali Campus, Dhangadhi--------------402---------88---------15 Baglung Campus, Baglung---------------993---------17---------7 Mahendra Campus, Ilam-----------------2164---------67---------12 RR Campus, Kathmandu -----------------4792---------39---------12 Koteshwar Campus, Koteshwar -----------386---------10---------6 Mahendraratna Camp, Tahachal----------2132---------83---------38 (Source: Drishti Weekly, May 18, 2004) Some time ago, I asked whether you still dismiss the rise of republicanism in Nepal, you refused to answer that suggesting concern for your personal safety (in Manjushree related thread). So much for your intellectual challenge to the rise of republicanism in Nepal. |
| Nepe | Posted
on 15-Jun-04 03:51 PM
You said your views are evolving. It must. But since you have never shared the detail, there is not much to make of that - without knowing the direction, magnitude and the pace. Well, may be the DIRECTION can be deduced from your hostility towards the republicans and your protectionism to the King. So I doubt if you are undergoing evolution of any use as yet. Nevertheless, I am sure, sooner or later you've got to evolve. And let me forecast one thing- on the eve of the establishment of Republic Nepal, you will undergo one major transformation and become a republican yourself ! And if some stupid asked you about your contribution to the movement for Republic Nepal, you will say, "Well, I dismissed the republicanism and ridiculed the republicans, thus making them stronger and sharper. Then I protected the King- making the challenge even more difficult ". And they will write your name in golden letters on the annals of democracy in Nepal. You wrote: On a larger note, rather than pushing the King out of Nepal altogether, I am more comfortable if he stays within the constitutional limits (let's revise those limits, if necessary), and if our to-be-formed parliament learns to exert its authority with confidence vis-a-vis the palace. Pushing the King out of Nepal altogether ? Funny, but not as humorous as Rawat ji's. On a lighter note, I think you need to revise your understanding of the republicanism. Republicanism is not about pushing the King out of Nepal altogether, rather it is about making him a good citizen of Nepal- one who is happy to be equal to other fellow citizens and respects the law of the land. I might even consider to vote for him if he is going to run for the president/PM of Nepal. Dekhne, bolne ra kaam garne president ! How about that ? Now onto your position about the King. As always, you have chosen to be vague. You are MORE COMFORTABLE if the King stays within the constitutional limits. What does that mean ? Does that mean you are LESS COMFORTABLE but still can live with the King not staying within the constitutional limit ? OK let's assume you did not mean that. Let's assume you meant strict constitutional limit. Even then that is just a minor technical issue. The major issue is the EXTRA-CONSTITUTIONAL power of the King and how that contributed to keep the country from making major strides. Too big a picture for you perhaps. However this is the essence of last one decade of ours and all those small pictures and players we talk about are mere details. Now,even when a part of your sentence is in favor of the constitutional limit for the monarchy, you added a clause " ...if our to-be-formed parliament learns to exert its authority with confidence vis-a-vis the palace" I am reading between the lines here, but it is not difficult to see your lack of faith in our to-be-formed parliament. What makes you think that our parliament, if it indeed gets the authority, might not have that confidence to exert it vis-a-vis the palace ? Allow me to make a grand assertion. Our parliament, provided it has a full freedom, will perform Dah-sanskar of Monarchy right at the bank of Bagmati without a second thought. Let me repeat- Our parliament, provided it has a full freedom, will perform Dah-sanskar of Monarchy right at the bank of Bagmati without a second thought. You don't believe ? Just wait for two more para. I will shortly come to this point and convince you and any other skeptics that this is not a hawadari dream, but a very realistic scenario. So, the question is do you want our country to have such a free and powerful parliament ? Put it this way, will you oppose the opposition to this kind of parliament ? Even better, do you have idea that you have been actually opposing the idea of having this kind of parliament all along ? Ok folks, no more riddle. Let me pronounce the name of this wonderful parliament. This is called CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY ! Constituent Asembly = Free and powerful parliament Parliament of the current Constitution = castrated parliament I think this hardly needs any elaboration. So I'll stop here for now. |
| ashu | Posted
on 15-Jun-04 06:03 PM
Nepe, Again, you do NOT surprise me. By now, I have concluded that your credentialling yourself as a scientist has really NOTHING to do with how your mind works. You are likely to grab at ANYTHING that seems to support you republican theory -- while likening others to that Iraqi minister in a cheap effort to ridicule them -- WITHOUT even bothering to take a skeptical/disinterested/tempered and, dare I say, a scientific look at your ow grabbag of evidence. What's my evidence for saying that? In the above table, you have neglected to detect the obviously glaring biases that are inherent in such campus-wide mock referendums. Surely, you've taken a course or two of statistics, haven't you? What's next, Nepe? Students, being students, say that they against authorities in general. Therefore, you are likely to conclude -- what else? -- that the days of authoriities are numbered, and pretty soon Nepal will be an authority-free country . . . *** The number one problem in the nation right now is that of the Maoists. This problem is an immense one, and needs to be addressed and solved as speedily as possible through EVERYONE's cooperation. Other issues -- such as your brand of republicanism -- are of little importance AT THIS TIME. And I don't have to be a monarchist to say that. oohi ashu |
| ýFýF | Posted
on 15-Jun-04 06:25 PM
ýýôýý Although I agree with Ashu that the Stats are biased in some way but these Stats are not something that can be totally ignored. If the same type of polling was done lets say in early 2040's, the result would have been very much different. And I do not agree with Ashu's hypothetical assumptions in undermining the students. You seem to think that the students of Nepal don't seem to care. Its pathetic that you are using such hypothetical assumptions to make your argument. |
| ashu | Posted
on 15-Jun-04 07:43 PM
Look, nobody's undermining the students here. But, having interacted with these student leaders at Martin Chautari and elsewhere in Kathmandu, I do find it amusing that while almost ALL the netas have their own children SAFELY either studying or living abroad (and the Kathmandu media should do a story on this), they are using other people's children for this student-movement bandwagaon to serve the netas' own interests. These are students who openly admit that they get their instructions from their political masters, and NOT -- presumably -- from their own conscience. Meantime, I remain worried that the students -- for all their so-called energy and enthusiasm and for their future leadership goals -- DON'T even have a Web page, let alone a listserv, as of today to communicate their republican messages to more people out there. Until recently, their method of Andolan was pelting stones at passing cars and motorcycles from the kaushi of Tri Chandra College, thereby terrorizing shop-owners and passrs-by ar Jamal, Durbar Marg and Kantipath. Still, my gripe is with Nepe, the real-life scientist, who is so rabidly ideological when it comes to republicanism that he can't even display a scientific temperament by interpreting the results of those mock-polls with appropriate qualifiers. A shared political ideology, as I have often said, covers a lot of sins on sajha and beyond. oohi ashu |
| ýFýF | Posted
on 15-Jun-04 08:49 PM
Ashu, why don't you realize that most of the students have not gone to Univiesities abroad and do not have the luxury of knowing how to use the Internet properly. Most of the people have limited access to even e-mail. Sometimes it seems to me that you almost don't fit in Nepal. You are some "elite" who seems to give a lot of suggetions on how Nepal should be and how Nepali should behave etc. etc. If you think you are "so good" why don't you lead these people-- the students and general public to "what they should be doing and how they should be doing". Otherwise you are some elitist who is an outlier of the Nepali population. |
| NEPY | Posted
on 15-Jun-04 09:21 PM
yFyF: If the type of polling was done lets say in early 2040's, the result would have been very much different. I think that if free polls were taken even in 2040 or before ( without any threaten from Mandale), the college thetnas would still have voted against King or monarchy, because Akhile was almost always using the same slogans as they have today. Today they shout in public and yesterday it used to be confined within campus compound. Who were student union leaders? They used to talk idealistic talk in day time, and in night they used to say " Library bhari tyati dherai kitab, hami sanga ek pani nai", and they used to say"lets go" and indeed I was surprised to see books infront their table, while normal students were deprived of getting library book for all the time. Do you believe these student leaders? These are just craps. They are just chors, very similar to Mandale, only the difference is they have different political slogans. So, these polls run by these so called student leaders are not worthy to common peoples. The current republicanism in Nepal by political parties is a way to threaten king to return the dissolved parliament. Its a story of Girija inside his residence, and in public he threatens King G that "if you don't revive parliament, I might opt for republican slogan because I am under pressure from my party cadres." In fact, this is drama. Well, educated (with higher univ. degrees) nepalis abroad are frustrated especially, because the current politics in Nepal favors Ktmuties and they (non-ktmuties) don't have links to jump in parachutte to higher political appointments in Nepal, but, they are also frustrated here especially in USA because they don't have real prospectus except being salary men here, thus, in dire need of recognition, thus, suffer hyper attention syndrome. The hyper attention syndrome is the main reason they are overboard with republican agenda. It was so unfortunate to read a few months back in DC C-hill where only a or two dozens of peoples were there, and in Kantipur/Nepalnews reported that 100s of peoples gathered. This kind of white lies continues. Well, there is another shame-ful stuffs that I was also one of signaturees run by diaspora. We Nepalis have exponential interests in every thing at the beginning, and within a few moment we loss our intrests and carried to next move. Now, the signature campaign talk is dead, I have not heard anything : move ahead. I feel ashamed to see how Kul chandra Gautam's name was misused. If they did not have capacity to proceed to the end, its better they don't start. Now, the fate of that signature campaign is nowhere except in the petition.org? Its because of lack of enterprenuership among Nepalis. In Nepal, I was tired how my friends, relatives and fellow Nepali professionals have a lot of enthussiasm/motivation at the beginning, but, they lacked something that made them to abort the plan and move to next. Therefore, Girija and his chamchas are showing these data just to get some vested interest and this republican stuffs also dies when they get some thing return as tool of bargain. a NEPY |
| Kurikuri | Posted
on 16-Jun-04 12:07 AM
Was Baburam Bhattrai mentioning Deuba to be a Shekhandi (protecting the King). Interesting to know they consider it to be a Dharmayudhya. |
| ýFýF | Posted
on 16-Jun-04 01:07 AM
And Prachanda the Duryodhana, Baburam Dushashana who is the Kishan Kanaihya then? |
| ashu | Posted
on 16-Jun-04 02:39 AM
"Ashu, why don't you realize that most of the students have not gone to Univiesities abroad and do not have the luxury of knowing how to use the Internet properly. Most of the people have limited access to even e-mail." Oh, when was the last time you visited Nepal? FACT: The Internet usage rate is quite high here. All the student leaders, at least the ones who show up for public discussions, have email accounts, and I assume, they are familiar with the World Wide Web. FYI, one does not have to gone abroad to know "how to use the Internet properly" in Nepal. Internet is a SIMPLY a tool to amplify one's message. ***** >>>"Sometimes it seems to me that you almost don't fit in Nepal. You are some "elite" "<<< Sure, to quote Miss Alison Porchnick from a Woody Allen movie: "I LOVE being reduced to a cultural stereotype." Especially, I might add, by people whose mode of judging others is by making false assumptions about them. I'll leave it at that, for now. ******* >>>"Sometimes it seems to me that you almost don't fit in Nepal. You are some "elite" who seems to give a lot of suggetions on how Nepal should be and how Nepali should behave etc. etc. If you think you are "so good" why don't you lead these people-- the students and general public to "what they should be doing and how they should be doing". Otherwise you are some elitist who is an outlier of the Nepali population. "<<< Oh, don't worry about that. My time will come, and, in the meantime, I am in NO hurry to 'peak early' in Nepal and then spend the rest of my in well-paid boredom and obscurity, so to speak :-) That's why, I am here -- observing people, making contacts, reading, writing and learning from others' mistakes and successes . . for, who knows what the future -- 10, 15, 20 years down the road -- holds? One waits and sees, taking one step one at a time, living each day to the fullest. oohi ashu |
| darshankaka | Posted
on 16-Jun-04 10:21 AM
Hey Ashu, keep on meditating... it will do good to your mind and your action. Probably you will never appear here in sajha once you purify your mind. Do not waste your time here... Try to dedicate the amount of time you used to spend here in sajha trying to be "intellectual' in teh meditation... then you will realize who you are, you will know the truth... Once you know the truth perhaps you will never appear here. Forget about leading the people. There are zillions of problems around the world.. you cannot sort them out by yourself. Just sort out your own mind. |
| mildseven | Posted
on 16-Jun-04 10:52 AM
Confused and scared are those who look for hope in the same places from where they have been banished and humiliated. If you choose a path and you fail, it takes a lot more courage to accept failure and try something different. People who dont have that courage, imagination, initiative, and intellect, stay on the same path that has failed them and try to defend it and defend themselves while all the time saying to themselves "I hope this time it works, so I can show these people that I was never wrong". |
| ashu | Posted
on 16-Jun-04 06:13 PM
Darshankaka, I am flattered to be the dominant presence in your mind like this. And thank you for your meditations on me . . . here, there, in other threads and future threads too, with the same old paragraph. I wish you well. oohi ashu |
| Pushkar Samarthak | Posted
on 17-Jun-04 10:18 PM
Don't ;isten to Darshankka, my dear Ashu. He is bullshit for sure. He wants to crush Pushkar Shah. |
| paramendra | Posted
on 18-Jun-04 06:06 PM
If we could move beyond personal adjectives, the conflict might actually be fruitful. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 19-Jun-04 10:32 AM
Parmendra jyu, Thank you for your nice words. I am very much obliged. Your's was a very honest assessment of me/my writing, and to find an honest critic (or a fan?) like you is almost impossible in today's world. Let me quote Friedman. "As a columnist I want readers to have one of four reactions to my columns - any one will do. Once reaction is for them to read a column and say: "I didn't know that." Sometimes it's fun to try to be a teacher. another reaction for them is to read a column and say : "You know, I never looked at it thatw ay before." It's also satisfying to give people a different perspective on events. Still another raection- my favorite, really, as a columnist- is for them to read a column and declare: "You said exactly what I feel, but I didn't quite know how to express it." And finally, another appropriate reaction is for them to read my column and say: " I hate you and everything you stand for." A coulmn is defined much by the people who hate it as by those who love it. I want to challenge, to provoke and, at times, to get some of my readers angry. I am not looking to do it by provoking just to provoke. I am looking to do it by being VERY CLEAR about what I feel. If I were afraid to do that, I would not be doing my job." [From the Intro. of Longitude and Attitudes, Thomas Friedman] I am not comparing myself with one of the most polished journalists of the world, but he does reflect my own view, so I took the liberty to quote him. When you write something, there are of course, reactions- some might like what you wrote, some might not like what you wrote.. and as a Sajha poster, I am all aware of that. I am not writing to prasie anyone or criticize anyone. I write what I feel is RIGHT.. If you have problems with it, then my apologies. But again, thank you very much for being my reader. I hope some day you will like my posts. I am happy to have you as a reader. I wish I could come up with an honest assessment to your pieces/posts myself, but I have a very selective reading and do not follow most of your pieces. But they must be filled with words of wisdom for stupid and idiot readers like me.. |
| isolated freak | Posted
on 19-Jun-04 11:10 AM
assessment to your pieces/posts = assessment of your pieces/posts |
| darshankaka | Posted
on 19-Jun-04 11:40 AM
See Ashu, aren't you afraid of knowing youself? And you still displaying EGO. |