| Username |
Post |
| Mabi |
Posted
on 26-Oct-00 07:05 PM
Ashu wrote:
>This is what most reasonable Nepalis
>unreasonably believe.
>
>I say "unreasoanbly believe" because
>evidence
>that our researcher friend Tim Whyte
>has collected from Amlekh Gunj shows that
>Chandra Sumsher did NOT distribute land to
>the freed slaves nor did he rehabilitate
>them.
>
>Where exactly did those freed Nepali slaves
>disappear is a topic for research, awaiting
>a historian.
You believe your friend, Tim, in saying that Chandra Shamsher did not distribute the land to freed slaves nor did he rehabilitate them. That's fine.
If Tim says it was not Chandra Shamsher, then he should be able to say who gave them the authority to settle there at a particular place?
Tim's research would not be complete without the answer of who settled them there.
Probably a similar "tarika" might help the "Kamaiya's" to settle.
BTW, Who is Tim?
>I agree with you that in undemocratic times
>CS could get away by making a declaration
>that the slaves were free. But, as Tim's
>research
>has shown, CS did NOT "tackle" the problem
>in any "systematic way".
According to Tim's research, WHO tackled the problems then?
>Now the times are different. Ex-Kamaiyas are
>Nepali citizens too. And any democratically
>elected Nepali government worth its name
>is duty-bound to assist the ex-Kamaiyas
>in leading free and dignified life.
>
>If the government can hand out many, many
>acres of land in Kailali and Kanchanpur
>to Sukumbasis of doubtful origins and
>to 'political victims' of all kinds, then
>what's stopping the government to hand out
>available UNDESIGNATED land to the ex-
>Kamaiyas?
>
>Minister Ojha, a jamin-daar from the Far
>Western
>Nepal, made an irresponsible statement. By
>saying what he said, Ojha was simply
>placating
>his jamin-daar friends.
>
The government did not make the decision whole heartedly rather, they did make that decision under pressure or for cheap popularity. Nor will it strengthen the political organization by giving land to the "kamaiya". The Nepali Congress government along with the opposition must have lost support from the families, at least those who had kept Ka-maiyas.
The lands in Kailali area are distributed for the political purpose. Giving land to Kamaiyas does not help politically alot.
Like you said, a minister who himself is a Zamin-daar, has lots of anger against the Kamaiya's and their leaders who voice them. A minister who has the authority is their foe and how can you expect to seek cooperation from them?
The lives of "zamin-daars" are affected the least or got even better with the temporary workers from the neighbouring country rushed to work for them at cheaper price. Its the kamaiyas who suffered.
Since successful strategies and channels were used to pressurize the Govt. to declare the abolition of "Kamaiya", I am sure the plannings are being done for the other phases of action.
>
>By Ojha's stupid logic, maybe democracy
>itself
>came too soon in Nepal!! If only Nepalis had
>
planned and mapped out all the possible
>consequences of democracy in 1990, then
>perhaps
>we would not have been in such a freakin'
>mess
>that we seem to be in . . .
>
>But "planning and mapping out all the
>possible
>consequences" in advance would be like
>solving
>thousands of simultaneous equations with
>many
>unknown variables!!
Planning and mapping out all the possible consequences are impossible. You are right. BUT, little consideration on the part of settlement would have made their lives lot more easier. I feel the most important and obvious variable is that of settlement.
Tell me, would you get out of your apartment without renting or managing another, that too with no jobs on hand?
This "aandolan" definitely demanded the Kamaiyas, liberation and freedom from the zamindars. It would be too naive for the architects of this andolan to consider a harmony between the masters and the Kamaiyas, after the kamaiya revolted against the Masters. Kamaiyas, with literally no education and skills for survival, at that point were basically parasites on the zamindars for shelter, food and even cloths. In such a situation, creating a war path against their providers would definitely deprive them with their needs and to suffer.
My point is "homelessness and food" were the very obvious and instant problems, forget the other variables.
It's not late though.
>I think sex always sells in a newspaper!!
>As far as I am concerned, adult ex-kamaiyas
>are
>free to indulge in any kind of sexual
>practices
>they want to indulge in.
I have heard Tharus (sorry to use this as some one might be offended) are very liberal with sex.
Sex is still a subject of tabboo in our society and indulgence into any kind of sexual practices is not acceptable.
We are talking about the shelter and food now, let's keep this sexual variable for some other time when there is more peace in the mind.
>Well, the grave danger is that of Maoist
>infiltration in ex-Kamaiyas' camps, and,
>some say that this is already happening.
>
>Since some of my own Tharu friends from
>'95/'96 are now hard-core Maoists, I have
>no doubts that they would try to co-opt
>as many ex-Kamaiyas as possible.
>Dilli is a leader in the sense that he is an
>
effective medium/voice for the ex-
>kamaiyas
>to reach the government.
I hope he will be equally or more effective in solving the settlement and other unaccounted problems in future.
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 27-Oct-00 01:07 AM
Sometimes ago, I ran into an article by Tim Whyte on
Kamaiyas.The website for the article is :
http://www.msnepal.org/reports/ekchhin_july/article_1.htm
Now as for the ongoing discussion, I want to obtrude
myself in this discussion and put forward some
questions, especially to Ashu:
1.Do you think land allocation is good idea? For
example, are Kamaiyas asking for privatizing land in their name or
they are willing to work on government land until
they are equipped with some salable skill?
As long as I think, very few government will be ready
to provide the dwindling public land to people this
way. Even the socialist countries who turned into
capitalist society didn't gave the lands for free to
citizens,everybody bought it from government.
So, will kamaiyas settle for leasing government land
rather than owning them?I ,personally, have little
bit misgivings about privatizing lands.
2.Tim says Chandra Samsher didn't give land to
Kamaiyas. He may be right or wrong.Because the land
in those days were really abundant, and providing land
for free (like Americans did here centuries before) was
not unusual until a few decades ago even in Nepal.
When my father escended to Chitwan and acquire land almost for free some four decades ago, he wasn't alone.
Amlekhganj, as long as I think,whether Tim finds paper
to support or not, was a place where manumitted slaves
were settled.
3.Ashu, when you gave us a name of a Kamaiya,Raj
Chaudhari, you know what, it was probably first time
I got a face from real Kamaiya.Otherwise,until now,
all the papers and newspapers I had read (from here)
were only abundant with non-kamaiyas trying to explain
kamaiya problem.
To be straightforward, if Kamaiyas are the one who are
in control of their movement, that is a good news.But
surely,there are a lot of people, non-kamaiyas, who
are trying to get credit for whatever they did for
kamaiyas.Probably that is why, I can give you names
of several foreign journalists, foreign professors,
national activists before I stop and strive to tell
the name of one real kamaiya.
You did a good job in this regard.
Happy Dipawali to all.
Biswo.
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 27-Oct-00 01:12 AM
>When my father escended to Chitwan and
>acquire land almost for free some four
>decades ago, he wasn't alone.
For some of my friends, who nitpick about choice of my
diction, this is correction:
bhayeko : hunuparne
escended: descended.
|
| mabi |
Posted
on 27-Oct-00 09:38 AM
Hi Biswo,
>
>3.Ashu, when you gave us a name of a Kamaiya,
>Raj
>Chaudhari, you know what, it was probably
>first time
>I got a face from real Kamaiya.Otherwise,
>until now,
>all the papers and newspapers I had read (
>from here)
>were only abundant with non-kamaiyas trying
>to explain
>kamaiya problem.
>
> To be straightforward, if Kamaiyas are the
>one who are
>in control of their movement, that is a good
>news.But
>surely,there are a lot of people, non-
>kamaiyas, who
>are trying to get credit for whatever they
>did for
>kamaiyas.Probably that is why, I can give
>you names
>of several foreign journalists, foreign
>professors,
>national activists before I stop and strive
>to tell
>the name of one real kamaiya.
>
> You did a good job in this regard.
This is exactly what was going through my mind.
As I have said in my previous posting
"Since, the Kamaiyas are simple (in life style),uneducated and unskilled cohorts, their fate and future basically depend on the wants,actions, manipulations and tactfulness of their leaders like Dilli et. al. and others involved."
I came into contact with many Tharus while working in Nepalgunj. They are simply ignorant and have little expectation from life. They have been exploited literally from everyone. That was sad.
Surely, uneducated yet conscious and smart Tharu like Raj Deo Chaudhry could be role models for the rest of tharu community.
Ashu said "It's their Aandolan". As long as its their aandolan, its good and justifiable. Bonded labor is NOT the form of lifestyles we expect in todays world.
Whatever, I have sincere regards to the people involved to take the Tharu's out of their misery as bonded labors.
But other grave problems are introduced
and continued. Let's hope for the outcomes that genuinely favor the opressed Tharus than any other.
Regards,
Mabi
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