| Username |
Post |
| Dymistifyer |
Posted
on 29-Aug-01 11:15 PM
Attaching this link, I do not have any intention that OSHO impresses you. As he is not a "messanger/prophet", I am not too. It is fully your choice to visit or not to visit this link. In the following link, OSHO talks how Religion and GOD are messing up the Humanity.
http://www.osho.com/main.cfm?Area=WebMedia
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| de-demystifier |
Posted
on 30-Aug-01 01:00 PM
I wonder why Rajneesh followers changed his name to Osho. Any idea? Is it one of those re-branding strategy. It is quite well known that Rajneesh gained quite a notoreity with his eccentric teachings and life-style, such as free-sex-orgy in the name of meditation and 50+ RollsRoyces. So, is this OSHO movement another way of selling the same cake? Just wondering. Nothing against OSHO or his followers.
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| sudhos |
Posted
on 31-Aug-01 08:32 PM
part 1:hurry to judge without knowing whole
Hi De-Demisifyer,
It is the problem of mediocre people who did not realize the JEMS when they were available. Socrates was poisoned, Jesus was crucified, Buddha was also persecuted, Galilee, and Copernicus were forced to knee down in front of Christian missionary/pops, and Pythagoros was harassed and his disciples were murdered.
As for sex is concerned, you only know the its outer dimension, and that is your vision about sex. You do not know that this the same sex energy that Piscasso was great painter, Albert Einstein was great scientist, Thomas Addison was great inventor, Hitler was Hitler and so on.
It is note worthy to remember that your common sense about sex is making you pre-judged, but this is not your problem because you have not deeply meditated in your life- that means you have been living uprootedly so far. Living uprootedly means living in other's experience, and common senses. Your common sense is not always correct: your common sense conceives that Sun is revolving Earth, not Earth is. Galilee was the person who declared that Earth revolves the Sun. As soon as Galillee declared the fact in his book, there were also mediocre masses, Pops and Churches who declared “Life Punishment” for Galilee because it was written in the Bible, which means book of the book, that Sun revolves Earth. A simple and old man who was against the Bible!!. It was not tolerable for mediocre masses. It was genius Galilee who conceived the existence as it is- the existential insight of sun and earth.
As you told that OSHO’s teachings are eccentric. First thing to remember is that he does not have any teachings and followers. He just shared his experiences of self-realization gained out of higher consciousness, which is only possible through meditation. He was against the organization, doctrines, philosophy, scriptures, society that provoke ego so it is mistake to see his disciples as followers.
“Teachings” and “self-realization” have a relation of polar opposites. Teachings provoke your ego and self-realization helps you to drop your ego. Similarly, followers and disciples are two opposite things. Followers are needed for organization whereas with disciples you can not make an organization because being a disciple means to start drooping ego to know the truth.
What is truth? Adolph Hitler wrote in his book that when you keep repeating a lie it becomes truth. This is not the truth Osho realized. The truth he realized is – “just be closed to existence”. You are a tiny and integral part of existence. Existence is our root, and in the name of society and civilization, we have been living uprootedly and forgotten the root. This is the cause of all suffering, misery, frustration, and all people have been carrying as burdens for thousand and thousand years.
There is mind, a sandwich between you and existence, and society and civilization are just by products of mind. This is the mind that is separating you from the existence. You used your mind more than needed. You use your hand and foot when you need them, but you use mind all the time. In the beginning, there was no society, people were very closed to existence, and living in a commune. They were living moment to moment- their lives were definitely so blissful, a close companion with existence. Later, people invented cultivation that leaded to a marriage life and then society. The more they used mind, they thought the society became more civilized.
When civilization resulted of mind reaches into highest pick, there is always danger for humanity. There was most ancient civilization of “ATALANTIS”- it was far more civilized than what we are now. When civilization of “ATLANTIS” reached into the peak, it was destroyed by misuse of power. There was huge nuclear explosion, which was result of misuse of power in men’s hand. Those were the same men who were pupet of their minds. ATLANTIS was drowned into ocean, and this is the same ocean that now is Atlantic Ocean.
For the real meaning, eccentric/unconventional is what is not closed companion with existence. Being natural is not eccentric. Keeping yourself in starvation to earn Virtue is eccentric. For the existence, when you feel starving, you need to get some foods. This is the way of living spontaneously. Your mind is not there. The program instruction “starving for Virtue” is the play of mind- unnecessary use of mind. In fact, there is not such a thing like Virtue. Existence is not social phenomena. It is eternal and infinite, and does not have a purpose- it is just happening. If there is no purpose for existence, bad/good, sin/virtue do not exist. You can not say something bad or good. They are complement to each other such as two parts of a coin. To condemn a part means not to have a coin. But you can not avoid existence by condemning bad or good.
We have been living hypocritically for thousand and thousand years so we have completely forgotten meaning of Hypocrisy. The classical meaning of Hypocrisy is “saying something and doing something else”. For a highly mediated and conscious person like Osho, there is no difference between Coal and Diamond. They both are constituent of carbon dioxide. When a coal depressed by the earth for millions of year it becomes Diamond. The difference is time, which is infinite and illusory. The existence is energy field. Even science has reached into the conclusion that matter is no matter in deep down. When you go deeper and deeper into the matter, there are electrons, smallest particles flowing here and there. Electron behaves such mysterious ways that even scientists are puzzled. It behaves like a point and line or particle and wave at the same time. How it is possible for electrons to behave that way because a point is point and a line is two points joining each other. Electrons are making such a quantum leap that it is present at A and at same time the same electron is present at B. It gives us an idea that even matter is no more matter.
If it is matter, at same time, the same electron can not present at B while it is at A.
For part 2 got to next link:
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| sudhos |
Posted
on 31-Aug-01 08:33 PM
Part 2:hurry tojudge without knowing whole
For the society with mediocre mass, Coal is different from Daimond, a Chevrolet is different from 50+ Rolls Roycs. But for the existentialist, there are no differences between even happy and sorrow, and life and death. If he differentiates the things, his consciousness would be phony and he would be Hypocrite. When there is no differences between coal and diamond, people do not have greed of diamonds and condemn coals- there are no choices. Then, they live harmoniously.
But, barrier is the society that they put different values on them. They put more values on life and condemn death. Every person has at least the worry of the death that is making him suffered. You are a tiny part of existence. The universe is an organic whole. Sun is a part of this existence, and all the planets are broken parts of the sun. Your life existed in earth. You are part of the earth, which is also a part of sun. Earth is your actual father and Sun is grand father. What happens inside the sun affects all the planets and earth and then you, but you are such a tiny part that whether you die and alive or become happy and sorrow, it does not make any difference to existence- it is happening without purpose.
The wall of society has become so tall that people are not close contact with existence. Meditation is the only way that destroys the wall of society, which is by product of mind. Meditation takes you beyond the mind. Meditation is the synthesis between you and existence.
Products for society need brands. As for a person who was parallel to existence does not need brand because existence does not know brand. The name Osho is for great experiencer. Osho is not movement. A person who lived with reference to existence can not be a point of movement. For movement you need to do something. Osho did nothing, but just happened. Doing and Happening are two opposite phenomena. Osho is highest pick of consciousness- A pond of consciousness and self-realization. You go to the pond when you are thirsty.
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| de-de-demystifier |
Posted
on 01-Sep-01 01:11 AM
Straight out of Oshoism, Sudhos!
That is preaching...not sharing your experience....Preaching what one does not practise..cool! Osho had a personal opinion. Each of us have one. May be it was not because of sexual energy that Hitler exterminated so many Jews! If sex is an urge for creatioon, how could he destroy life? Those are senseless examples! Ludicrous! each of the modern prophets, including Psho, sai baba and that other guy who became the Minister of Railways in India have been people who were/are hell bent to make the world believe in their beliefs. People like Christ were at least who died for their beliefs...these other guys ran away from the consequences of their own actions...think of the security checks before you meet Sai Baba....
Sucks!
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| sudhos@hotmail.com |
Posted
on 01-Sep-01 02:50 PM
part 3: hurry to judge without knowing whole..
Hi De-De-Demistifyer,
Osho I know is not an issue of academic argument. He has nothing to do with academy. I am seeing that you are in such a hurry that it sounds you are running a 100 meter race. If you were not running and just taking a morning walk, from what I wrote you could have found the answear that you questioned me.
Difference between you and me is that my eye is not prejudice- I am not programmed. I do not think you know the meaning of senseless. You are only familar with five senses that is why you are arising questions again that has already answeared. Beside five senses, there is another sense that is "intuition", if look at the dictionary, its meaning is "six sense".In this meaning, I am not, but you are senseless person cause you do not know there exists "six sense".
'ism" and Osho do not exist together. "ism" exists with something that is dogmatic, and permanant such as your socalled region. Everything is changed in this existence except your holy scripture. That was reseaon Jesus was crusified. Jesus just wanted to modify the old Testament. His crime was that he wanted to make bible a Treasure/Jems. A person like Osho who realized that "One can not step twice into the same flowing water" can not be a dogmatic. Osho who realized that "only changed is permanent" can not be suffixed with "ism". Before writing something, go and find the meaning of word first hand.
It was strange that you comapred Osho with His Holy Highness Sai Baba, the guy who became Rail miniser, some hindu Maharajs, Pop and so on. I do not think you research thing first and make your comment. That is why I am seeing you are running 100 m race. Sai Baba, and Rail Minister are part of your socalled tradition.
They have nothing to do with "Human Conciouness". They are socalled prophets, not a alert soul. They want organization, and "ism" is best suffix for them. As long as you are programmed, you do not know what is the "Human Conciouness". It is not something you gain from book and lecture/ preachings. It is your sole affair with existence. You alone is enough.
Coming to the point. there are not different pokets of energy. There is one energy and the same energy becomes greed, love, hate, sorrow,happy and sex energy and so on. They are the different dimensions and shapes of energy. If you have some knowledge from your high school physics, energy is some thing that is not static. It is flowing- it takes different shapes. When this energy turns into sex energy it becomes great art, music, dance and science- some creative things. If you know the little bit about human history, there was not a single person who is "impotent" and same time a great musician, artist, dancer, scientist. With out sex energy you can not be creative and even destructive. Remember, energy is not "consequence" it is just the "means". The consequence is how you manipulate the energy. Hitler had the same sex energy that he manipulated to put millions of jews into Gas chamber. For your simplicity, sex energy means not only having intercourse with your partner, but it means desire and passion. Hitler had a desire to be emperor. He tried to conquer the World. Creation and destruction is not pollar opposites they are complement to each other. You can not seperate creation out of destruction. You need intuition to conceive it.
Running faster don not give you insight, morning walk is enough. Be watchful, witnessing, and meditiative.
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| sudhos |
Posted
on 01-Sep-01 02:52 PM
part 3: hurry to judge without knowing whole..
Hi De-De-Demistifyer,
Osho I know is not an issue of academic argument. He has nothing to do with academy. I am seeing that you are in such a hurry that it sounds you are running a 100 meter race. If you were not running and just taking a morning walk, from what I wrote you could have found the answear that you questioned me.
Difference between you and me is that my eye is not prejudice- I am not programmed. I do not think you know the meaning of senseless. You are only familar with five senses that is why you are arising questions again that has already answeared. Beside five senses, there is another sense that is "intuition", if look at the dictionary, its meaning is "six sense".In this meaning, I am not, but you are senseless person cause you do not know there exists "six sense".
'ism" and Osho do not exist together. "ism" exists with something that is dogmatic, and permanant such as your socalled region. Everything is changed in this existence except your holy scripture. That was reseaon Jesus was crusified. Jesus just wanted to modify the old Testament. His crime was that he wanted to make bible a Treasure/Jems. A person like Osho who realized that "One can not step twice into the same flowing water" can not be a dogmatic. Osho who realized that "only changed is permanent" can not be suffixed with "ism". Before writing something, go and find the meaning of word first hand.
It was strange that you comapred Osho with His Holy Highness Sai Baba, the guy who became Rail miniser, some hindu Maharajs, Pop and so on. I do not think you research thing first and make your comment. That is why I am seeing you are running 100 m race. Sai Baba, and Rail Minister are part of your socalled tradition.
They have nothing to do with "Human Conciouness". They are socalled prophets, not a alert soul. They want organization, and "ism" is best suffix for them. As long as you are programmed, you do not know what is the "Human Conciouness". It is not something you gain from book and lecture/ preachings. It is your sole affair with existence. You alone is enough.
Coming to the point. there are not different pokets of energy. There is one energy and the same energy becomes greed, love, hate, sorrow,happy and sex energy and so on. They are the different dimensions and shapes of energy. If you have some knowledge from your high school physics, energy is some thing that is not static. It is flowing- it takes different shapes. When this energy turns into sex energy it becomes great art, music, dance and science- some creative things. If you know the little bit about human history, there was not a single person who is "impotent" and same time a great musician, artist, dancer, scientist. With out sex energy you can not be creative and even destructive. Remember, energy is not "consequence" it is just the "means". The consequence is how you manipulate the energy. Hitler had the same sex energy that he manipulated to put millions of jews into Gas chamber. For your simplicity, sex energy means not only having intercourse with your partner, but it means desire and passion. Hitler had a desire to be emperor. He tried to conquer the World. Creation and destruction is not pollar opposites they are complement to each other. You can not seperate creation out of destruction. You need intuition to conceive it.
Running faster don not give you insight, morning walk is enough. Be watchful, witnessing, and meditiative.
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| de-de-demystifier |
Posted
on 02-Sep-01 02:46 PM
sudhos,
You are so full of answers and justifications. Yur arguments are the arguments that are desperately trying to convince people of what Osho believed. The difference between you and me is thet YOU are programmed and NOT ME. You have been programmed to believe that sex energy does everything and you are not willing to look into that twice.
Hitler did not kill the Jews because of his sex energy....You have a great way of justifying atrocities! Itb was not his passion or energy but his calculative use of intellect and cunning.
If Osho is not a topic for academic discussion, why is he being discussed here? Is he someone to be listened to, believed and not questioned? He was an intelligent philosopher, may be but he is not beyond question. Just as fanatics hate questions about their faith, you dislike questions or deisbelief in Osho! You begin: "Osho, I know..."! You know, indeed, and nobody else knows! You are PREJUDICED.....you are just an Osho advocate. Nothing else. Sixth sense indeed..something people in power often use to force their decision on their subjects. When I used the word sense, I meant meaning..To make sense means to convey some meaning...to convey a significance. It is not done through the five senses..or the sixth sense (whatever it is)..it is done by the brain. You take in an information and make a judgement in your brain as to what that means or wheteher that has some meaning. And if it does not, it "does'nt make sense" or is senseless. When you become senseless, you don't feel. That is different. When you find something is senseless, it does not make you understand anything.
I think that Osho did believe in something.An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of idea or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true is what a dogma is. Any one who believes in and/or advocates or teaches such a thing is a DOGMATIST. So that is an ism. And what Osho taught/believed is a dogma and definitely an ism by definition.
I am not a fan of Sai baba or the maharaj or whatsoever but I do believe that they are of the same constellation as Osho is! What is human consciousness....somebody had to define it for you? If it is my own affair, then you do not know whether I have one or whether Sai has one, or Railway minister or Osho for that matter. How can you say that anyone is not concerned about Human Consciousness? If you can not learn from preaching or lectures (which I believe too ), then how can you make comments on anyone else's affair with the Human Consciousness? I have my own conscience and I define it myself.
And orgnization....what of the Rajnish ashrams around the world where interesting things happen? Or is Osho not to be associated with them? Is he to be not associated with his legacy? Everything has been with getting people organized around some abstract principle.
Arguments do not run one way only. I know, not only from human history, that there is a great correlation between potency and creative works. But the correaltionship is not always causal. I know so many people, not from history, but from trhe present times, who can not do without sex a day but create nothing! There are couples I know who copulate everyday and still do not reproduce because can not reproduce. You are misusing the worb "impotent" here. Potency and sex energy do not always go to gether, whatever Osho says. People who get excited on sight of the opposite sex have not been able to father or mother offsprings. Or is that also a reason of the wrong channeling of evnergy? They are may be not good enough! At one point you simplify it foe me sayiong that sex energy is not only about having sex but then you talk about potency in unmistakably biological terms! I think one should base his/her arguments and opinion on what one experiences and not what one reads from "great" phoilosophers! Energy does not have shape; it has forms. There needs to be some kind of a mechanism before it can change forms...it flows but just does not flow from one form to another. It transforms from one form to another. Otherwise we would not need to have all those hydro electirc projects! Or facts of nature do not relate to Osho or the Human Consciousness?
On second thoughts, what do you think about eunuchs who have been great artists? What do you know about the truth of history? It has always depended on who wrote it. It has basically been the loyalty of the historian that decided what is to be included and what is not. One classic example: When the soldiers of the American confederacy routed an American Indian tribe and murdered their women and children, it was considered to be a victory. When the Indians routed the American soldeirs, it was termed a massacre. That was a white American historian.
As for religious scriptures, they change. Read the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament. Change does not mean that you throw out one and bring in another. As in everything else, views of so-called religions are also changing and will keep changing. "Only change is permanent"...I know of the types who use such confusing terms to fool the less intuitive and less intelligent folks into their fold!
But anyway, great advicacy! keep up.
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