| Username |
Post |
| ashu |
Posted
on 12-Oct-01 04:58 AM
Biswo,
In my book, it's OK to goof up, make lots of mistakes, make errors of judgment and all thatPROVIDED one said "I am sorry", really meant it and learnt from it. After all, none of us is perfect . . . and making mistakes is the best way to
learn.
But I hate being lied to in a deliberate attempt to be misled.
(Of all the people, you should know, to give you example, how hard I came
down on some poet here after I verified -- yes, verified -- from four different sources that poetry.com was a scam!)
Sure, by the collegial Nepali standards, that was NOT a nice thing to do, but
it was certainly the RIGHT thing to do.)
In retrospect, now that I am in Kathmandu, and have checked and cross-checked what I was told, I just did NOT like what turned out to be LIES, LIES and LIES that I was told in Kathmandu (in '97) and in Boston (in '98) about Dr. Upendra Devkota.
I don't know Dr. Devkota, but my findings here have convinced me that though Devkota has his share of faults like every other human being, he remains a highly regarded surgeon -- and this was a point I made forcefully earlier. That the New Yorrker gave him such a high profile was a damn god thing.
BNow if this all bothers some certain liar out there, well, he should be bothered
as hell.
I have no sympathy for people who -- as evidence shows -- deliberately try to smear others. After all, one can't go further in life spreading lies about others.
So that's that.
This is NOTa personal attack, but an explanation of my particular philosophy.
As for your thoughts on Samrat, I have decided that obviously I have failed to
explain my thoughts clearly to you, and so, I wait for a better time later to take
up that issue.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 12-Oct-01 05:21 PM
Ashu:
It's good that we agree to disagree on Samrat issue. A lot of things can't be
decided immediately anyway.
As for Dr Devkota, I don't know why you should give topic of "In defense of
Dr Devkota" here. As long as I know, nobody here accused Dr Devkota of
anything. If somebody badmouthed about Dr Devkota with you, I guess it is not
a suitable form to reply those private conversations/prevarication. Let's learn to
move on.
As you have once said, we need to comparmentalize a person. A sweeping
generalization about any person is not good. People should be praised when they
do good things, without any bias. That is my principle. Tell me any person who
have been successful by harboring eternal enmity , rancour and hatred against
others.
I have spent a few years with Khagendra Devkota, brother of Dr Upendra.
Khagendra never spoke anything against other persons. I learnt a lot from him in
my close association with him. That may be same case with Dr Upendra also. So,
I will agree with your judgement of Dr Devkota. Whatever, my point is: Dr
Devkota may be a great person. A highly successful person. But that should not
be our weapon to attack other person that we don't like. We can't use the fact
that Dr Devkota is successful as our weapon to attack our opponents. We should
show our own virtue to attack our opponents.
Finally, let's talk about other things that public can benefit from or at least, public
can enjoy at. Nobody will win, specially as an oldest poster not you, by making
gbnc an arena for personal fighting.Time will judge who is correct : You or people
in Sommerville!
|
| oohi_ashu |
Posted
on 12-Oct-01 08:10 PM
>Ashu:
>As for Dr Devkota, I don't know why you
>should give topic of "In defense of
>Dr Devkota" here. As long as I know, nobody
>here accused Dr Devkota of
>anything. If somebody badmouthed about Dr
>Devkota with you, I guess it is not
>a suitable form to reply those private
>conversations/prevarication. Let's learn to
>move on.
Well, my point was this: If someone tells you negative
things about a person, and then you find out, yes, you find out,
with evidence that whoever told you those negative things had a GRUDGE
against that person and basically wanted to brainwash you with LIES,
LIES and LIES, then you CAN, if you wish, go PUBLIC with that
information without naming names.
I call this, for the lack of a better phrase, an act of PUBLIC SERVICE.
And, like I said, if this act bothers the liars out there, well, it should bother
them!! That is why they too have conscience.
On another note, this Web site is more than just a simple bulletin board:
People read stuff and reach various intended and unintended conclusions and often get their messages across in the most unobvious way.
To give you a minor example: One of my friends in Kathandu jokes that she knows that -- even though we haven't called or met one another for months -- I am doing all right simply by logging on to this site!!
Anyway, comng back to the issue: if I had not posted about Devkota, Biswo, we wouldn't have known about your assoiation with Dr. Devkota's brother! A minor info, to be sure -- but interesting nontheless.
Finally, I am all for gettig rid of this whiningly suffocating holier-than-thou pretence/affectation that we SHOULD/MUST and OUGHT post stuff here for "the benefit" of the public.
I mean, that "benefit for the public" sounds grand and hollow.
I mean, if other people benefit from my postings: Fine.
If they don't, that's fine too.
I know why I post stuff: Because it comes easily to me, because I have fun posting stuff, and because posting stuff ENERGIZES me to pursue other stuff
with a lot of vigor.
Now, others may have their own reasons for posting, and that's PERFECTLY fine too. And so, let's take ourselves a little less seriously, and let's inject more "fun" and less "duty" elements into our postings.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
>As you have once said, we need to
>comparmentalize a person. A sweeping
>generalization about any person is not good.
>People should be praised when they
>do good things, without any bias. That is my
>principle. Tell me any person who
>have been successful by harboring eternal
>enmity , rancour and hatred against
>others.
>
>I have spent a few years with Khagendra
>Devkota, brother of Dr Upendra.
>Khagendra never spoke anything against other
>persons. I learnt a lot from him in
>my close association with him. That may be
>same case with Dr Upendra also. So,
>I will agree with your judgement of Dr
>Devkota. Whatever, my point is: Dr
>Devkota may be a great person. A highly
>successful person. But that should not
>be our weapon to attack other person that we
>don't like. We can't use the fact
>that Dr Devkota is successful as our weapon
>to attack our opponents. We should
>show our own virtue to attack our opponents.
>
>Finally, let's talk about other things that
>public can benefit from or at least, public
>can enjoy at. Nobody will win, specially as
>an oldest poster not you, by making
>gbnc an arena for personal fighting.Time
>will judge who is correct : You or people
>in Sommerville!
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 13-Oct-01 03:33 PM
OK, Ashu.
I take your reply as your determination to pursue these matters in this website in
future also.Whether this is good or bad to public taste, that is not the thing you
will be considerate of.Since 'public service' to you sounds grand and hollow term.
I am fine with that. Until now, I was thinking you were against such attack in this
site, and so I was urging you to move on. Never thought you don't intend to move
on.
Have a good luck in this infinite vendetta.
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 15-Oct-01 03:40 AM
Biswo,
The matter here is NOT about pursuing an infinite vendetta for myself, though
you are welcome to see this as that.
The matter, at least as I see it, is about defending -- quite publicly and quite strongly -- Dr. Devkota's reputation from the lies, lies and lies of certain bitter individuals out there.
For the record, I am neither a relative nor a personal friend of Dr. Devkota.
On a small scale, my hope is that by defending Dr. Devkota (surely Nepal's best neurosurgeon, despite the usual bitterness/anger/lies from one his former
colleagues' youngest son!) from relentless private attacks, one defends all
other good Nepalis who too are attacked privately and publicly for no
justifiable reason.
If you disagree with this, that's fine and good.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 15-Oct-01 04:13 AM
Ashu:
If someone lies to you, you are free to unmask the liar. I have no doubt.
But the key question here is: whether it is right place for that. Esp since those
individual's haven't made their remark here.
Again, it's going to be a long process. An infinite, if this intransigence continues.
Eventhough we are free to ignore your posting about that, how long will this
whining continue, and how long are we supposed to be hostage of this vendetta?
This is not only my question. Believe me, quite a few people told me they stopped
visiting this site after those numerous anonymous attacks and those postings
about girls and boys.I know I can't help such situation.But being a party of that
cyberfeud, you can. But surely, it depends on your discretion.
In probably "How to win friends and influence people", Dale Carnegie says it is
almost impossible to change opponent's heart by debate and quarreling.
Something I never found wrong.
Have a pleasant Dashain.
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 15-Oct-01 04:46 AM
Biswo,
If some people leave this site because they cannot stand the criticisms of their ideas or because the occasional attacks among some people here flare up to the level they cannot handle, then, well, let them leave with all our good wishes!!
One should EXPECT some attrition rate anyway.
And I mean that in all sincerity.
Maybe they will come back, and maybe they won't, and life goes on.
At the very least, this means that as well wishers of this site, all of us should ALWAYS be 'marketing, marketing and marketing' this site to everyone we know and we should be asking them to ignore the garbage (as they see it) here and stick to issues they find interesting.
After all, this GBNC.org need NOT cease to exist just because you stop to post or I stop to post and so on . . . or just because some people leave in a huff. None of us is indispensable to this site. So, let us not get carried away with our own self-importance and let us NOT worry that some people have stopped visiting as long as we have stepped up 'marketing' efforts.
That way, after some time, those who launch anonymous attacks will be
vastly OUTNUMBERED -- as they already are -- by those who prefer
sensible discussions and debates.
And so, rather than trying to modify behaviours of others by way of lectures
and moralizing, we have to have faith, just do our best and hope for the best.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| tirtha |
Posted
on 15-Oct-01 11:17 AM
Ashu, the ground reality here is that you are the one OUTNUMBERED by people asking you to take your personal jhadas elsewhere. Face it.
If you want to keep contesting your personal battles in the public space of GBNC AGAINST repeated majority opinion, I suppose no one can really stop you. But you can't ALSO go on masquerading as an advocate of democracy at the same time.
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 16-Oct-01 02:19 AM
>Ashu, the ground reality here is that you
>are the one OUTNUMBERED by people asking you
>to take your personal jhadas elsewhere. Face
>it.
Dear Tirtha,
As my postings on the subject must have made clear to
you: You and I obviously stand on DIFFERENT grounds,
and so it's acceptable to me if your version of "the ground
reality" does not match mine.
While we are facing things, let us face this fact too.
But, hey, when attacked (with emails hacked and all that) not once, not twice, and not thrice BUT repeatedly and repeatedly, I did use -- as you surely know --
these solutions that were available to me.
a) not paying attention to the attacks (which I did here)
b) using sense of humor to dismiss the attacks (which I did here)
c) being generous to the attackers in this space (which I did here)
d) posting other informative stuff on the site (which I did here)
It is only recently that my once gone-soft attitude has HARDENED into
something more. Now, if you have a problem with that, then, my dear friend,
first try getting attacked repeatedly in PUBLIC, and try having your
email-systems hacked into and so on.
>If you want to keep contesting your personal
>battles in the public space of GBNC AGAINST
>repeated majority opinion, I suppose no one
>can really stop you.
Tirtha, with all due respect, when the majority of postings
here were attacks against Ashutosh Tiwari, I don't remember
reading your anger/impatience against any of that.
If I am mistaken, then please, I beg you to correct me.
This is important because as far as I am concerned, since people like
you lost your chance to voice your concerns then (as others like Biswo, San
and others rightly did then), people like you need not be taken seriously
now.
And, oh, you do NOT represent the majority as I also do not.
>But you can't ALSO go
>on masquerading as an advocate of democracy
>at the same time.
This is what bothers you, right . . . this curiously odd juxtaposition between verbally stabbing the attackers who dare not face me directly and the supposed democratic values (i.e. using my real name and this OPEN space) I champion here.
Wel, you are welcome to think whatever the hell you want to think. But
on a conceptual level, I have learnt that this curiously odd juxtaposition
shows that relentless democratic OPENNESS and TRUTH is the most effective
first step to work toward stamping out anonymous, cowardly attacks.
Since attacks against me have DECREASED dramatically, I now see no reason to continue -- as Biswo, San and others have pointed out -- counter-attacking the attackers!!
A very Happy Dassain to you, Tirtha-ji.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| tirtha |
Posted
on 16-Oct-01 11:40 AM
Ashu, so you want me to sing accolades for you, is that it? As for your forebearance in having your emails hacked, sure I have been locked out of my emails a few times too, have forgotten my password, or didn't remember the password I changed to, but I am not going to spill my guts here on GBNC site for it.
Like yourself, I want Milan Karki to spell out the evidences before making a blanket statement as he did about the royal conspiracy. If you seek credibility for your contentions, go do the same. If all you are looking for is public pity for your personal problems, I'm afraid this is not the right place for it.
|
| Sunakhari |
Posted
on 16-Oct-01 12:39 PM
Biswo and everybody else,
I remember a time (way back about 2/3 weeks :)) when we were outraged by some of Ashu's comments and had retaliated to some of them, we were asked to move on. So much so that San was urged to have our IDs published so that we would be deemed credible. DUH! That sounds like an oxymoron now.
Let me urge you and some others who seem to have reached that same level of frustration some of us had (at that point) towards all the stuff that Ashu seems to spew out every so often here - LET IT BE. We have moved on (sincerely). Lets move onto brighter subjects.
Ashu, I will still say, its a damn shame you want to use this space for letting out your umm whatchamacallit frustrations!
Cheers
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 17-Oct-01 05:19 AM
>Ashu, I will still say, its a damn shame you
>want to use this space for letting out your
>umm whatchamacallit frustrations!
Dear Sunakhari,
One can listen to Biswo, Gandhi and San . . . but when anonymous users -- who need NOT take ANY responsibility for their postings -- start telling others how to behave, well, I find that amusing.
Here is this statement: Despite all the bad things I was told about
Dr. Upendra Devkota, my checks and cross-checks in Kathmandu have
confirmed that those things were just that: Lies, lies and lies.
My reasoning is this: If Devkota could be one victim of such attacks, there could be other victims too of the same attacker. So, beware!!
Now, people may believe me; they may not -- and that's fine.
And so, I issued that note, as an act of public service.
Now, if this act bothers the attackers out there, well, that IS precisely what
should happen for they should be ashamed of promoting lies about other
people.
Long live our democracy and openness and our questioning minds!!
Tirtha-ji, FYI, I did not forget my passwords: my new mails had been opened well before I myself read them :-) And, no, I need neither your accolades nor your scorn.
A very happy Dassain to you all,
oohi
ashu
ktm, nepal
|
| Sunakhari |
Posted
on 17-Oct-01 11:10 AM
I'm seriously going to kick myself after REPLYING to your message but what the heck everybody deserves to be their OWN critic once in a while.
Do you personally know Biswo, Gandhi, others who post under their own names? Even if you do, does that signify anything on this message board??
Are we still not posting AFTER we were told that our IDs would be posted? Does that not say anything?
And WHY should we have to adhere to what YOU lay down as regulations about anonymity?? As far as the rest of the visitors go, I am a person who reads and posts stuff here. Thats all they are concerned with.
"but when anonymous users -- who need NOT take ANY responsibility for their postings -- start telling others how to behave, well, I find that amusing. "
Do you think you are of the few virtuous/responsible ones here just because you post under your own name?
You slander others
You constantly use this site as a platform to get your bickering messages across to your "enemies".
PLEASE! If that is being responsible. I would RATHER NOT be in that slot! Thank you very much.
Sorry Biswo and other guys who are as fed up as I am, its difficult to practice what one preaches. I am still trying :). But this is definitely my last one to the oh-so-high-up-there!
|
| Gandhi |
Posted
on 17-Oct-01 11:57 AM
Ashuji,
I cann't fully agree with your point of view about credibility and anonymity. Sunakhariji is right to some extent that we don't know each other who we were in the past and what we are now personally. You don't know how credible I am now and was in the past. Similarly, I don't know how credible you or GP or TP or Sunakhari are. I again iterate that any Ramesh Adhikari in reality can write with a name Dinesh Sapkota. If so, who will be responsible? You don't know Ramesh and you take Dinesh as real because Dinesh is very real name. In this impersonal world of internet and e-mails, it is not any difficult to fool others with a very good looking false name. Then? May be ignoring or accepting the writing based on the usefulness and the standard of the content is the best way to go through without chasing behind people.
Gandhi
|
| tirtha |
Posted
on 17-Oct-01 01:22 PM
Ashu, in case you haven't noticed, it's also people like Biswo, Gandhi and San who have been urging more respect to this public forum by refraining from using it as a staging ground for your personal battles. This thread on Dr. Devkota, for example, is entirely a product of your external battles, not inherent to this forum.
When Biswo raised this issue early on this thread, a simple apology would have demonstrated your sincerity to move on. Instead, we are locked in this cycle of rebuttals and pursueing red herrings of anonymity and insults.
As Namita said earlier, it also never ceases to amaze me how people go to length to discredit themselves.
|
| Bhupendra |
Posted
on 25-Oct-01 11:15 AM
Ashu!
I love this elegant echange going on over here in Cyberspace. Maybe I can join in, although my language skills may not measure up. I am used to one or two-line arguments such as kis_ my as_, and other such immature exchanges.
But Ashu has always been someone I have learned from. So I am sure I will get better. I don't know how the points of discussion here began (for instance who is this Dr Devkota fellow?), but I am going to write something just so eventually Ashu will spot this and reply to me.
Anyway, who the hell gets offended by stuff posted in a message board or chat room? There are millions of opinions flying around out there. Just enjoy them.
BP
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