| Username |
Post |
| VillageVoice |
Posted
on 16-Oct-01 10:56 PM
Sex & Arresting God in Kathmandu.
I started Arresting God with The Good Shopkeeper, the first story in the collection.
Other than the all-too-familiar locales in Kathmandu what struck me most about the story was the ease with which the writer makes a middle-class, god-fearing, Kathmandu-born Pramod commit adultery with a servant girl. ("Every morning before sunrise, he walked to Pashupatinath temple.")
On a first read, I just found that awakward. I was perhaps in denial, "Wait, wait. Is it my Kathmandu?" Then my second response was, "Wonder how would Kathmanduites, men and women I know, react to such bold treatment of sex?"
Certainly, Arresting God is no Harold Robbins. It is a story about Nepalis' lives written by a serious Nepali author who accoding to his own account deliberately sets is stories in Kathmandu because it's the place he knows best. ("...Kathmandu is my emotional landscape."
When Samrat came to New York for his reading on Aug. 28, I couldn't help asking him, "I found your treatment of sex bold?"
He laughed, "Wait, till you read other stories." Sure, Deepak Mishra makes love with his secretary more than once -- sometimes right inside his office.
Now when I look back, I find Deepak Mishra's Secretary (I read the story *after* I met Samrat) a very honest portrayal of an upwardly mobile Kathmandu man who was torn between his (subconscious?) quest for an archetypal Hindu nari and his real-life disappointment with unrequited love for an American woman.
I would love to hear from others. What was your reaction? Hypothetically, how do you think Nepalis (men and women - khardar baje, master sahib, Padmakanya Collegeka ketiharu, Gharma Kamrgarne Didi, your colleagues, your siblings and parents) will react to samrat's treatment of sex? This (minus what's within parenthesis) by the way was my another queston to Samrat on Aug 28.
My two cents.
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| anepalikt |
Posted
on 16-Oct-01 11:28 PM
I too was surprised by Samrat's take on sex... not so much that it was bold, but rather the way he chose to presentit. Very male.
Had I read his book a couple of years ago, I would probably not have believed that peopel have sex in Nepal. Having left Nepal at a relatively young age, uninitiated, I was really totally unaware... about sex in Nepal, sex between Nepali people. I mean sex other than within a marraige and only to procreate. Even that seemed highly unreal.
When I visited home after a gap of many years, I was astounded by what I found though. People are having sex right and left, exrta and premaritable affairs. I also realized when working in rural Nepal that the whole my sexual prudishness was a very urban middle class phenomenon. I felt a prude both in the new Kathmandu and the village. So anyhow, I was glad to see a Nepali writer talk about sex in an open way. Yet at the same time, I thought it was so male and maybe it bothered my "prudish"sensibilities to read the anatomy (again in male terms) of sex as it appreared in sory after story........ the limping bride, shopkeeper, deepak misra.
The story about the lata guy (the storey that takes place in Pokhara) and his wife who has a child out of wedlock, was the closest Samat got in terms of talking about sex in a way that was gender neutral/empowering to women/and different from the norm (maybe he is breakign ground in Nepali writing talkign about sex at all...). Not that a writer has to do that, not at all. This ia simply my own observation and preferance as a female reader. Almost every male writer's treatment of sex, be it Nepali writer or any other, is typicall. Maybe it is because the narrators/protagonists are usually male too. Anyhow......
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| GP |
Posted
on 17-Oct-01 12:23 AM
A Nepali KT Wrote:
When I visited home after a gap of many years, I was astounded by what I found though. People are having sex right and left, exrta and premaritable affairs. I also realized when working in rural Nepal that the whole my sexual prudishness was a very urban middle class phenomenon.
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| amina |
Posted
on 17-Oct-01 11:03 AM
Yes, I too was slightly taken aback by the “sex” in Kathmandu. I think I would’ve been totally shocked if it hadn’t been for the “panther” hotline ( not sure about the name ) on sex that I happened to listen to a few years ago on a FM station when I was Kathmandu. That was the first time I was exposed to the idea that Nepalese people do have sex.
As a nepali female brought up in a middle class family in kathmandu, Sex was an alien topic for me (until I visited the west).
I must confess ( and I only speak for myself here), inspite of the more liberal attitude towards “sex” ( and many other things) that I have developed over the years, when it came to sex in the context of Nepal and Kathmandu, my conditioned mind somehow, reverted to my old conservative thinking. I suppose what startled me was actually the context in which it was presented. Some of the sexual encounters were not enfolded within contexts of “love” and romantic relationships, but rather there was lust and illicit relationships. I have read such stories in western contexts but not in Nepal. Maybe I have, but they were not as explicit. So this is a whole new perspective for me…
As I am writing this, I am thinking about Parijaat. Now she too has written several stories where sex is a theme and that in Nepali too, not to mention, by a woman. I remember, I had a feeling of uneasiness when I first read “ mailey najanmaeko choro” where a 35 yr old woman fantasizes about a 14 yr old boy. And there is “shirish ko phool”. When I first read this novel many years ago, I had completely missed the essence of the story (due to ignorance maybe). I recently read it again, and it was like reading a whole new story.
So I am thinking, why would I react to Samrat’s treatment of sex in his stories, when I have encountered it before, in Nepali novels ? maybe because it’s in English. I think the difference is, before I used to enjoy the story, without any acknowledgement of the sexual content or connotations. But now, I acknowledge it and even talk about it. Maybe that is my reaction to it. I agree with anepalikt, on her comments that some of the presentation is very male oriented, I felt that way reading “Deepak Mishra’s secretary”.
Maybe they should use some of Samrat’s stories in high schools to start a discussion on sex education. I remember in class 10, our Nepali teacher tried to get us involved into a discussion of Freud’s theories on sexual behavior while teaching “bhinaju ko sweater” and “ mailey najanmaeko choro”. We all sat nervous and tight lipped J. He gave up after a while ( consequently, some also gave him the title of being a “pervert” which was quite unfair I think).
Going back to the discussion, my original reaction was “This is too much, I don’t think that happens in ktm”..which was more of a knee jerk reaction I think. But I have digested the fact that these situations are quite realistic and depict certain human behaviors. There are not only male protagonists in the stories who get involved in illicit relationships, but females too.
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| smp |
Posted
on 17-Oct-01 12:40 PM
I agree with "anepalikt" that the book was primarily from a male perspective. It is not uncommon for writers, especially in their first attempt, to present a perspective they are more familiar with than venturing into something slightly foreign. Being a male myself, I wasn't taken aback all that much.
I was born and raised in a middle-class urban Kathmandu right in the heart of it. However, unlike "amina", I was somewhat aware of the going-ons in the neighborhoods although I do admit things were hush hush more than open and conversations about lust and illicit affairs, let alone the acts themselves, were vehemently frowned upon. I have not been back all that much or long enough even during my infrequent visits to realize the 'new' Kathmandu so to speak.
To me, reading about sex in Kathmandu in English and knowing that the whole wide world would read it and form a certain impression of Kathmandu, one not anymore of naivety, was slightly uncomfortable to accept at first. I would say the book is an eye-catcher, if not a complete eye-opener, for many of us who left the old country early on and still have some notions about the innocence of our dearest city. But the fact that it hits a chord in me, I think, makes it a more relevant read, especially since after the first instance of awkwardness, I realized that it was a chord of right vibration rather than a chord of wrong one.
I do agree that the book should go into the reading list for high school English, even though the audience might only be a select few schools in Kathmandu and other urban areas where schools emphasize the level of English required to grasp the quality of Samrat's book. I would say that this book is definitely more relevant that some of the readings I encountered in my tenth grade.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 17-Oct-01 12:41 PM
If anything, the story 'the good shopkeeper' tells a life of a debauched, burnout
boy, who in his frustration can turn to any mode: promiscuous mode, infidelity
mode, and enraged mode. It tells the story in a style that is both provoking and
saddening but with extraordinary flash of brilliance in presentation.
It is not that people haven't explored sexuality in Nepali literature, or in English
literature. I remember reading "New Delhi" of Khuswanta Singh. And I remember
reading a lot of novels in Nepali, be it of Parijaat, or be it of Daulat Bikram Bista.
They basically take us inside the veil of middle class custom, where everything is
as bare and explicit as the mind of Stanley Kubric once visualized in Eyes Wide
Shut.Everywhere there appears a veneer of moral codes, which can be easily
dented with some kind of persistence display of desire because even a timid
approach becomes impregnable to be defied wherever there exists some kind of
natural attraction.
The depiction of sexuality was not forte of his stories. It was the style of the whole
story. He is neither unique in his style nor bold. BP Koirala's novels also subtly takes
us to the state of enchantment and hypothesis about sex in fiscally deprived
and acadamically literate houses.A lot of time, presentations are feminine. This
boldness in art and literature has been present in our society since
thousands of years, when kings made 'ranga mahal' and harems and enjoyed
watching romantic drama, and when erotic works were depicted in doors and
walls of temples. I was also amazed to read explicit , or risque at least,
expressions in scriptures like Devi Bhagabat (Shumbha Devi Sambad chapters),
and in Mahabharata(just start from conceptualizing polyandry of Draupadi).
The middle class veil of shame in Kathmandu is so transparent that we all can see
through this. People can buy sex in the price of 300 gram of mutton. As someone
said to me, go to Bir Hospital area in evening, and everyday hungry souls are
offering their fleshes for virtually free. A sink of humanity is our diverse KTM. No
wonder a poor lady selling peanut offers sex to an educated looking person.
Gandhiji,a fellow poster here who once run an flesh trade related NGO in Chitwan,
told me how many people are engaged in sex trade in Chitwan.It was a
devastating blow to my belief of chaste & pristine Chitwan.All your life , you saw
those cities as ramparts of moral codes, and suddenly, you start seeing the
debauchery inside them.You start imagining every lady who is talking to a
wanderer in a funny way as a suspicious. This range often becomes too broad to
be tolerated.
Hell, yea. And then you think about the hypocrites of those places. I know a Pundit
who married two wives, one of which was from so called "very low caste". The
Pundit still doesn't eat anything she prepares. What a flagrant challenge to our
moral conscience? And what you do if you are not of a truculent type and you
follow your mom and sit down in the hindmost row to listen Srimadbhagabata
narrated by him?Hell, yea. You question [the piety of] yourself then. [Although
I never commit myself to religion, I do take part in cultural and religious programs.]
I believe that we are on the verge of disbelieving every body, everything. The
deeper we go exploring the true nature of society regarding sex, the more it
mystifies us. Its scope is too broad to be limited within our person's two eyes.Worse, it is dynamic, it is changing, evenwhen it is same in nature. It was
same a thousand year ago , it is same now in its core. But it is changing in
its appearance.It associates itself with everything, finance, pop culture, rituals,
and so it is inextricable to be separated and studied in its own.
Thank you for starting wonderful and bold topic.
My two cents.
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| Gandhi |
Posted
on 17-Oct-01 07:03 PM
I have not read Samrat's book yet. So, I don't know what exactly he wants to focus with his episodes on sex. May be he is more interested to embrace it in the form of domestic exploitation of sex. In addition to few encounters across domestic exploitation (teenagers' mutual to forceful coercions in rape), I have a great deal of experience about the running of sex industry, especially in the emerging town and transportation routes.
As Biswoji mentioned here, I have worked for an NGO which was a Youth Club turned Community Development Foundation in Nawalparasi. I had designed (plus set up and establishment) a project related to Bahavioral Change Intervention to prevent sexual transmission of HIV/AIDS/STD among the target groups in the community. By the time I left it I had carried out studies on situational analysis followed by outreach education and counseling. Not surprisingly, our staff had been able to interact with more than 50 sex workers and double the number of clients within 2 months of field implementation in the district. We could find sex workers in every segment of the community including roadside/factory outlet tea stallers, college students and what not. Among the clients were transport workers, factory workers, businessmen, civil servants/police and college students. The sex workers came from different age group and ethinicity. They were mostly migratory in nature and had travelled to many places doing their trade. We have had more than a dozen focus group discussions with these sex workers and clients. Having been involved in this area for more than 15 months, my earlier beliefs were completely overturned.
I would not tell more than this. If interested in some studies "General Welfare Foundation, Hetaunda (Most of the district in Central and Mid-western regions), Trinetra Community Development Foundation (Nawalparasi), WATCH (Rupandehi) and AMDA Hospital (Jhapa, Morang, Sunsari) have a network of such interventions across the country.
Gandhi
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| NepaliKeTa |
Posted
on 17-Oct-01 11:59 PM
This is an interesting topic. I would be interested to know the following from the nepalese viewers here. A small sex survey
1. when did you have sex for first time
2. where did you have it (in Nepal or abroad)
3. how many people have you had sex with
4. are you male or female?
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| somerville |
Posted
on 18-Oct-01 03:07 AM
grow up neplaliketa. how low can you disgrace yourself. don't u have anything better to do than make irrevalent remarks. here we are discussing about a trmendous nepali book that has gotten internatinal recognition, and all your dirty little mind can think about is what who did what and with whom. seriously get a life. kohi kohi nepali keta haruko ta laaj saram bhaneko nai chahi na. disgusting gadha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| ashu |
Posted
on 18-Oct-01 07:35 AM
I felt Samrat's weaving of sex in his stories a bit too forced at times.
In The Good Shopkeeper, I found it hard to accept that the bahun guy would
just walk into a woman's apartment and start making love to her. I mean, it's one thing to be emotionally attached to a person you have just met; it's another to be starting a sexual relationship with that person IN Nepal.
Somehow we are told very little about that woman's particular social milieu which would allow her invite a stanger into her apartment and have sex with him . (I don't know: my reading of other Nepali-language short-stories, especially Parasu Parasu Pradhan's, tell me that this idea of having uncomplicated sex with a willing and pliant non-upper-caste, lower-class woman may well be a staple of upper-class/upper-caste ko lustful fantasy . . . and Samrat could be playing up on
that theme . . . but I am open to be persuaded otherwise.)
In Deepak Mishra's Secretary, Samrat portrays Bandana-ji as someone who has
a mind of her own and who is a competent secretary, someone who could tell Deepak Mishra what he should do and so on . . . yet, at the end, she inexplicably, walks away just like that from his life without a whimper of a protest. Bandana-ji strikes me as a type too proud to let Deepak Mishra throw her out: She would throw Deepak Mishra out of her life FIRST.
I will talk about other stories later, but:
Then again, sex MUST be alive and well in Kathmandu and in Nepal. How else
could we explain Nepal's one of the world's highest rate (2.4 per cent) of population growth? :-)
That said, I have seen/observed all kinds of sexual behavious here . . . from a middle-age executive man who leaves his wonderfully committed wife of 20 years to shack up with a woman old enough to be his daughter to flirtatious wives who jump into flings with their male office colleagues in Nagar Kot and on and on. . .
Urban Kathmandu is a wonderfully amusing place [Am I going to get into trouble for pointing out these two examples here? I think so :-)]
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| ashu |
Posted
on 18-Oct-01 07:35 AM
I felt Samrat's weaving of sex in his stories a bit too forced at times.
In The Good Shopkeeper, I found it hard to accept that the bahun guy would
just walk into a woman's apartment and start making love to her. I mean, it's one thing to be emotionally attached to a person you have just met; it's another to be starting a sexual relationship with that person IN Nepal.
Somehow we are told very little about that woman's particular social milieu which would allow her invite a stanger into her apartment and have sex with him . (I don't know: my reading of other Nepali-language short-stories, especially Parasu Parasu Pradhan's, tell me that this idea of having uncomplicated sex with a willing and pliant non-upper-caste, lower-class woman may well be a staple of upper-class/upper-caste ko lustful fantasy . . . and Samrat could be playing up on
that theme . . . but I am open to be persuaded otherwise.)
In Deepak Mishra's Secretary, Samrat portrays Bandana-ji as someone who has
a mind of her own and who is a competent secretary, someone who could tell Deepak Mishra what he should do and so on . . . yet, at the end, she inexplicably, walks away just like that from his life without a whimper of a protest. Bandana-ji strikes me as a type too proud to let Deepak Mishra throw her out: She would throw Deepak Mishra out of her life FIRST.
I will talk about other stories later, but:
Then again, sex MUST be alive and well in Kathmandu and in Nepal. How else
could we explain Nepal's one of the world's highest rate (2.4 per cent) of population growth? :-)
That said, I have seen/observed all kinds of sexual behavious here . . . from a middle-age executive man who leaves his wonderfully committed wife of 20 years to shack up with a woman old enough to be his daughter to flirtatious wives who jump into flings with their male office colleagues in Nagar Kot and on and on. . .
Urban Kathmandu is a wonderfully amusing place [Am I going to get into trouble for pointing out these two examples here? I think so :-)]
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| anepalikt |
Posted
on 18-Oct-01 10:40 PM
I agree with Ashutosh that Samrat's treatment of sex a bit too forced at times.
But not for the same reason that he pointed out. I am not sure what is so unbelieveable about " the bahun guy... walk[ing] into a woman's apartment and ... making love to her." Is the fact that he is a Bahun and she a lowly street vendor of dubious caste? Because, one does not have to be emotionally atached to someone to have sex with them. And starting a sexual relationship with soneone one has just met might seem odd or unbelivable to some, be it in Nepal or somewhere else, but that does not mean that it does not happen. People are obviously sexual beings, and despite our own personal view and social norms, sexual relationships such as the one described in Samrat's that particular story is not only beliveable but very likely.
Like some other poster pointed out, the protagonist shopkeeper of the story is a privileged, be it disenchanted man fallen on hard times, from a privileged class and gender. His relationship with the street vendor woman and his teatment of her (used and discarded) only confirms that further.
I think as other posters have pointed out, we bring our own experinces and social expectaiton of what is correct or not into our readings and thus judge them art likewise. Most likely this is the reason I found Samrat's treatment of sex forced.
But I also observed that the writer seemed to be trying awefully hard to have sex scenes in the stories and not just a reference to the fact that the character had sex.
While he seemed to be trying to "weave" sex into the overall storyline, it was done in a way that though the writer was trying to be "oh so casual" abou it, I just did not buy it. I felt these scenes were forced and extraneous to the real essence of the stories. His stories could have stood very well without the self conscious treatment of sex, especially the limping bride and Deepak Misra. Both left a bit of an after taste and thsi was not because I judged the characters for what was going on and found the situaton of who was having sex with whom, when and where.
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| NK |
Posted
on 19-Oct-01 09:42 AM
I finally bought the book. Not read yet. I cannot wait to see what you people are talking about :)
(in all honesty, i find the story published in suskera a mediocore, what do people think? Poor Samrat, he must have never thought people like me would be critiquing his book!)
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| VillageVoice |
Posted
on 19-Oct-01 11:16 AM
It's turned out to be a pretty lively discussion. I will glean, if I may, some points from the thread.
1. Female readers find Samrat's treatment of sex very masculine, a bit forced too? Very interesting are comments from Sunakhari. Needless to say, as a male reader it never occured to me, but I would defnitely like to re-read some stories, particularly Deepak Misra's Secretary with that in mind.
2. Some, Ashu for one, find S's treatment of sex a bit far-fetched. I did too when I first came across the bed scenes in The Good Shopkeeper, but the initial shock gradually wore off. By the time I was reading Deepak Misra, I even enjoyed them.
For those interested in records. I asked Samrat during his New York reading (Aug 28) and a day later, "What's *your* Kathmandu like - upper-middle class? You went to St. Xavier's School (Ashu, hold on...)...? Don't you think your writing risks being labelled elititst?" I had only read Pramod's story then.
Samrat's answer was very short and succinct, "Who are *you* (not necessarily addressed to me but to anyone who challenges the validity of his kathmandu) to tell me your Kathmandu is any more real than mine?" Hmmm.
3. Very interesting are suggestions that his stories be included in course books? His story will certainly jolt many of us out of our cozy comfort. Though I have enjoyed his stories very much, I would say that his stories be allowed to stand the test of time.
4. As for the credulity/and our own prudence andf the stories. Welll, isn't that a quality that's always getting stretched. (The first time I watched Baywatch in Kathmandu with my elderly family members, I needed remote by my side. No more.)
By the way, Jerry Falwell v. Larry Flynt (Rodney A. Smolla) is a hilarious work. I am sure many of you have read about the trail, or seen the movie. Reverend Falwell sued Flynt, the publisher of Hustler Magazine, for an ad.( in Hustler) where Rev. Falwell describes his first sexual experience--with his mother in an outhouse.
I remember one sentence from the trial. When Falwell's lawyer tries to pin Flynt down with questions of morality and prudence, Flynt comes up with a famous line, "What is credulity?" As I ask everybody what is it?
Of course, the preacher was not amused, and he sued Flint. The trial, pornographer versus preacher, has been billed as "competing visions of American life."
This book is an absolute must for people of legal background, reporters/writers, and all those who relish arguments - as long as they are intelligent.
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| VillageVoice |
Posted
on 19-Oct-01 11:18 AM
Ooops..The comments were from Nepalikt and not sunakhari.
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| smp |
Posted
on 19-Oct-01 11:19 AM
I agree more with the argument that the perception that the treatment of sex is being forced in the stories may be coming from within the reader than from the words weaved by the author. The casuality of sex may be hard for us to grapple with from within our "middle-class veil of shame" as someone put in a previous posting. But from my experience in the outskirts of Kathmandu and the far western Nepal, "sex is taboo" seems to be a Kathmandu phenomenon rather than a Nepal phenomenon. Of course sex is not a dinner topic amongst a family in the far west or the outskirts of Kathmandu either but I found people talking about it and dealing with it more openly than in Kathmandu. Sometimes I like to compare this dichotomy to sex and sexuality in the US verus Europe, Kathmandu in some ways akin to the puritan US.
I give Samrat kudoos for bringing the topic of sex in the forefront even if he hasn't quite gotten the nitty gritty correct to the core. The city where its residents witness the sex and sexuality depicted in and around the very temples where they go to worship everday and yet somehow fail to discuss it openly and treat it as something unnatural certainly needs this shock, so to speak. But is this book being read in Nepal? Does anyone know?
I think I have contributed six cents so far :) I like this thread. Keep posting!
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 19-Oct-01 06:06 PM
>Maybe they should use some of Samrat’s stories in high schools to start a
>discussion on sex education
Samrat's stories in highschool textbooks?
I think that is too much to ask. Being a pioneer Nepali English writer, he surely
deserve to be included in some textbooks of English in Nepal. But his stories
are definitely not suitable for highschool kids.
I don't think even in US or other countries, they allow such stories to be taught
in highschool.
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| Gandhi |
Posted
on 19-Oct-01 11:05 PM
Biswoji
Since I read The Good Shopkeeper, I also found that story is not of the level to be introduced in the Nepali high school text book. What I have understood from my experiencial learning that we need sex education in high school in Nepal. It should be more informative, and give specific details that helps the teenagers to understand the phisio-psychology of sex. Our teenagers lack any guided information about the treatment of sex in their life which is likely to affect to their whole productive/reproductive life. Samrat's stories are merely fictional and they are not intended to give the audience any information about this. So, I don't find it suitable to include in any high school texts. Rather it will further confuse them. I don't oppose the idea to include it in any text, but it should be to rather matured readers in the universities.
Gandhi
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| amina |
Posted
on 20-Oct-01 01:07 PM
That comment I wrote about using Samrat's stories in high school text books was just a rhetoric comment and didn't realize it would be taken so seriously :-) it was more of a prelude to that little anecdote about my high school teacher. I guess I'm gonna have to be careful about what I write here....And I certainly think there are other more effective ways of teaching sex education than using literature.
As far as using Samrat's story in educational institutions goes, yes I agree that maybe it will be more suitable for a matured crowd..maybe at college level.
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