| Username |
Post |
| Siwalik |
Posted
on 07-Nov-01 01:39 PM
Importance of civil society for fostering democracy is a well-researched field in comparative politics. There seems to be a positive correlation between them. Should we then attempt to help build such spirit in Nepal? If yes, how best can we achieve that objective?
|
| diwas k |
Posted
on 07-Nov-01 01:59 PM
Do your own research and your own homework....
diwask
|
| Siwalik |
Posted
on 07-Nov-01 02:57 PM
Gee, what a great scholarly answer!
|
| michael |
Posted
on 07-Nov-01 03:48 PM
iTS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. nEPALESE PEOPLE ARE NEVER GOING TO BE CIVILIZED. Just look at the past postings here on this board. It makes it look as if all Nepali people are perverts. In a way they are. Nepali people look at all foreigners(white FEMALES) as sex objects. I have heard all sorts of derogatory terms in Nepal and here, people talking about all sorts of sexual innuendo's, remarks in public in Nepali(so other people don't understand). I guess its in their genes.
|
| Siwalik |
Posted
on 07-Nov-01 04:05 PM
What you observe might be true. I would say the causal relation for such behavior could be the sexual repression in the Nepalese culture. However, by civil society, I do not mean being civilized. Civil society is a concept that pertains to developing organizations of citizens that fosters community participation and development through various activitites such as sports, clubs, social services, guilds etc. In one of the most acclaimed book by Robert Putnam (Making Democracy Work), he did a case study of Italy and found that democratic system(institutions) in northern Italy functioned better than those in the south that had mafia culture. He traced the different outcomes to the presence or absence of civil societies in those two regions that dated back to a thousand or so years ago. It makes kind of intuitive sense that people who participates in their community welfare might have better chance at sustaining democratic government and practices than those who do not.
|
| sunakhari |
Posted
on 07-Nov-01 04:31 PM
Michael seems like you feel kind of lost in the crowd!
1. MOST people look up travel books and scour libraries before they travel and know that women in Nepal do not walk about in revealing clothes. If a male responds to all the flesh that he sees, what can one do? Its not just Nepalese, its in the gender genes! I have met plenty of white males here find Asian women exotic!!! Should I think all white males are lecherous, uncivilized and whatnot?
2. You have heard derogatory terms in Nepal about whom? White people? well join our club - we've heard plenty of racial slurs ourselves in foreign lands! DEAL WITH IT!
3. Remarks in public in Nepali? Should we be talking in FRENCH or GERMAN to accommodate you? Learn the damn language if you feel so left out.
AND by the way - you sound like a loser giving all well-intending expats a bad name and WORST OF ALL - you actually sound like one of those losers (a nepali but who has not guts to come out as a Nepali hence pretending to be a foreigner to pen down his grievances!)
|
| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 07-Nov-01 09:04 PM
A great question..
here's what I think. yes, the importance of civil societies can not be undermined in democracy and yes we need responsible civil societies. Civil societies, in developed democracies such as the US, India, UK are helping the governments serve heir people better. But, civil societies too, needs to be regulated or else it will be hard for the government to operate. In the context of Nepal, where not even 30% of the total population is literate, we can not even hope to have civil societies that are unbiased/impartial. Plus, instead of making various concerns known to the governmnet and crearte awareness, they will in the long run emerge as semi-governmnet entities and the people associated with it reap the benifits, we, ordinary people end of gaining nothing but more chaos!
A good example of unregulated civil society is of Falun Gong, when you have a sudden emergence of a group, which posses a threat to the governmnet, and it needs to be regulated and that's what the CHinese governmnet is doing. Another example would be the Black Panther group, not registered anywhere, but they too had a significant membership and had created terror in the US for almost a deecade. So, responsiblke civil societies like that of the civil rights movement help in achieving gols, but societies like falun gong and others only help in creating chaos..
Trailokya
|
| Michael |
Posted
on 08-Nov-01 10:27 AM
So Miss Sunak.. whatever,
At least those white people are talking at your face about your breast and you know they are talking abou it. Rather than behind your back. You seem to be all -ve about westerners then why are you here ? go back to your beloved people.
There is a difference between racism, sexism and hypocricy. I guess you'd rather have all white people go to your remote villages and talk about the women in the village in all derogatory terms in english so they would not understand.
And what is this about women in Nepal do not wear revealing clothes ? just look at the pictures of Miss Nepal candidates and Mis Nepal usa's pictures. You can bitch all you want but facts are facts.
I sense a little frustration in your voice ? Why ? Maybe you should take up on one of those offers from white people and ease some of that tension.
|
| sunakhari |
Posted
on 08-Nov-01 12:24 PM
gu chalaye ganda!
look that up in your dictionary.
Not that I'm biased, :) but there is absolutely no shortage of Nepalese males thank you very much.
Cheers
|
| dariwal |
Posted
on 08-Nov-01 12:25 PM
well said micheal
|
| dariwal |
Posted
on 08-Nov-01 12:26 PM
Of course except that last sentence.
|
| Michael |
Posted
on 08-Nov-01 01:49 PM
Miss Suna..whateverrr
Running out out words I guess. Like the famous proverb LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP. Do not go around bitching like a chatterbox if you don't know what you are talking about. And if you play with fire, you are bound to get burnt. So do not put yourself in a pedestal as well cause you are nothing but a hypocryte. And remember ...DO TO OTHER AS YOU WOULD WANT THEM TO DO TO YOU.
|
| Siwalik |
Posted
on 08-Nov-01 02:35 PM
I would appreciate it if the discussion was relevant to the topic, not personal animosity and upmanship.
|
| Michael |
Posted
on 08-Nov-01 03:22 PM
You can say that again. Let Miss whatever know that. I was making a point and your tac dog attacked me. Had to defend yuh' know.
|
| anepalikt |
Posted
on 08-Nov-01 08:06 PM
I agree with Acharya ji, the role of civil society in strengthening democracy is a very interesting and important one.
Civil society/civic engagement has obviously been one of the main buzz words in the US and abroad for the past few years, in a wide variety of circles...the development/nonprofit/NGo sector, governement agencies and actually even the corporate sector when they talk about corporate responsibility, corporate giving (volunteer time and money) programs.
Often, what I have observed though is that there is a real disconnect between the *ideas* behind "civil society/civic engagement" and the kinds of programs and projects that are developed by nonprofits/NGOs and governments to "foster" civil society and thus strengthen democracies. Often the results of these programs are beuraucratic and cumberson heirchies that merely replicate the same organizatiosn that are help form them. Rarely does one come across the kind of grassroots level organization that I feel is necessary for real democratic change where the members are empowered, motvivated and self-detrermining. Most often the organizations that come out of such programs are economically dependent on donors, with a very narrow leadership base.
And this is why I would say that I disagree with Acharya ji when it come to "regulating" civil society... or rather maybe the entitities and institutions that embody the ideas od what it means to have a civil society... so the nonprofits, clubs, community gorups.
Of course organized groups should ideally be registered for purposes of taxes and public accoutnability, but there is much to be said for civic movements that emerges out of real needs of the people... like the suffrage movement here in the states, or the civil rights movement and the independence movement in India. Even the black panther movement had its place in american civil rights movement and history. Without the threat of this violent "extreme", the mainstream oppresive system might not have sat across the table fromt eh moderates to negotiate.
How does one attempt to build civic spirit without just setting up proxy organizations that merely emulate the flawed founding organizations/donors? I guess it has to be citizen led.... it can not be mandated, and I would even say that the best thing is to do is model by doing and showing how working together for the larger good does work.
One of the main problems I find in talking about civil society in Nepal is the rampant corruption, and maybe that is what Acharya ji was referring to. That is the biggest problem and of course nepotism.
I'd be interested to hear from folks as to how to deal with corruption and nepotism first. Without these I belive the kind of engaged and empowered civil participation necessary in a democratic society is impossible.
|
