| Username |
Post |
| ashu |
Posted
on 08-Nov-01 01:44 AM
A strategy to assist Subash Gurung (SG) get a fair trial.
**************
Everything I have read about/heard about SG tells me that his was a dumb
mistake. His old teachers in Kathmandu say that SG has a history of being forgetful, being amnesiac, and it was just a massive piece of bad luck that
landed on his head.
But, hey, even those make dumb mistakes DESERVE a fair trial. And getting a fair trial in these emotionally heated/charged times in the US may be difficult.
So, here is what I -- a concerned Nepali in Nepal -- propose to you all as a
matter of 'rough' strategy to assist Subash Gurung get a fair trial. My thoughts here are built upon similar thoughts expressed here by Diwas K, Snepali, Village Voice and many other concerned fellow-posters.
OK, then, let me begin:
FIRST, the issue of LEADERSHIP
Someone -- preferably from the Chicago area, though that's not necessary -- or a group of people need to take a clear PUBLIC leadership on the matter of
assisting SG.
At the minimum, that means: Keeping information about SG and SG's trial flowing on this and other networks. (I can assist such a leader to get in touch with journalists in Nepal to generate some positive press in Nepal, if that's necessary)
At the maximum, that means: Contacting the local Chicago chapter of American Civil Liberties Union, asking them for help. Since the ACLU's major concern is that civil liberties should not be violated at all, our idea of trying to get a fair trial for S
G is likely to resonate well with the ACLU's folks, and they are likely to be interested in this.
One additional work that can done is: Making a list of SG's friends, professors, former co-workers and so on who can ALL testify or write about or speak about his famously forgetful habits. If it can be proven that SG has a history of being forgetful, then charges against him can be lenient, and he might be let off with a slap on the wrist.
Additional work can be done: Such as, contacting the Chicago-based Honorary Consul of Nepal (an American businessman, whose name I forget now!), and see whether he can use his influence and contacts.
Another additional work could be: Contacting the legal-aid clinics at the University Chicago Law School or the Northewestern University Law School, and see whether students there would be interested in this.
But to do any of this, some Nepali, some friends of SG or even random, well-intentioned, strategically-thinking needs to come forward and be willing to make some investment of time and efforts to help him. I don't think ANA, ANMA and others such organizations would be even remotely interested in helping SG, though I'd like to proven wrong on this.
SECOND, the issue of GOALS.
At the minimum and maximum, the goal is to make sure:
a) that SG gets some positive press coverage. By all accounts, he is a nice guy fallen into hard times and hitting a patch of bad luck.
b) that his US-government appointed lawyer understands the particular
amnesiac, forgetful history of SG.
c) that SG's friends and supporters are kept informed.
d) that his trial is fair (though I am not sure how exactly you can make sure this would happen . . . and this is where ACLU could get involved).
Anyway, these are just my thoughts. Feel free to disagree and add to this.
I am not saying that he is innocent or guilty, but just that he deserves a fair trial, and it is in the interest of the Nepali community to start GETTING INVOLVED with the Americal legal and political systems as openly and as credibly as possible
so that: a) a fellow Nepali is helped; and b) our collective knowledge is
enhanced.
To sum up, a leadership with those goals could do a reasonably good job of
helping SG get a fair trial.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| gaunlemaila |
Posted
on 08-Nov-01 09:46 AM
Always like Ashu's piece. I agree with you that ANMA, ANA and other Nepali organizations will do nothing. I'd like to be proven wrong as well. Although these two claim that they represent Nepalis living in the America's, I think other wise. These conferences that the groups hold every year are nothing but self-serving - a time to compare oneself with other Nepalese to see what one has achieved academically, financially, socially, and, of course, a time to arrange marriages between established and settled families.
I hope there is someone in Chicago who will come forward and show some leadership - and, I say Chicago because of proximation and convenience. I assume Chicago has Nepali population.
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| ukyab |
Posted
on 08-Nov-01 11:16 AM
Agreed.
All the bigwigs of these organization are hiding right now. They only come out of the hibernation once or twice a year during the "conventions" to give speeches about how they will help bring the Nepalis together, try to conserve nepali culture in the US, help Nepalis and blah blah.....
Where is ANA President who used to send out thoe long emails? And same w/ the ANMA President? Aren't they the Nepali Organization of the Midwest?
Ukyab
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| Curious |
Posted
on 08-Nov-01 11:55 AM
Maybe some Nepalese Org is assisting him right now. We don't really know anything do we? So, let's stop making all these accusations and try to gather the facts, shall we?
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| krishna |
Posted
on 08-Nov-01 12:00 PM
I would like to suggest it might be wise for folks stay out of this, for the time being, unless Gurung or his lawyer specifically requests that others get involved with his case. In the meantime, it could be helpful if interested parties contacted the lawyer and asked what help, if any, they might provide.
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| Mike |
Posted
on 08-Nov-01 12:27 PM
In the past I have been mis-interpreted in this GBNC forum as telling other what to do. Now it seems - here comes the infamous Ashu, telling us in the USA what to do. I'm too polite. But others do bite. To that - I say take a dose of your own medicine.
Recent gatherings around my area where one asked in a group of 25+ Nepali "Shouldn't we rally to support Subash?" - the answer - a unanimous NO!
Reports of Subash having a counterfeit Green Card won't help his case.
Up the creek with out a paddle as we say in the USA.
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| villageVoice |
Posted
on 08-Nov-01 11:34 PM
I contacted some Nepalis in Chicago last night but didn't make much headway.
Would appreciate tel. calls from people who are aware of the latest on SG. My phone no. 718-786-0790 (New York ).
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| Sujan |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 12:48 AM
I think this is the time for those of you, who 'think you are the elite amongst others' to come out of the shadow and step up to the plate to lend your expertise for a fellow nepali citizen. It is rather unfortunate to hear SG when he said he felt alienated, lonely, and scared. Therefore, he needed these extra weapons to protect himself, but forgot to pack them in his suitcase. There are some truths to that, but rather than speculating, someone should guide him to a competent criminal defense attorney rather than the govt. appointed one. Those guidance should be provided by the so called 'I am the elite one......Nepali attorneys (they are out there), University professors (I have met some), ANA & ANMA (this is the time for them to give their surplus funds to a needy cause..you listening Pres.??), and of course, our Embassy should take a stance. Of course, we are all terribly saddened by the Sept. 11th events, but the US govt. cannot take out their anger over an event on a Nepali citizen, who had no bearing nor the intention to do any harm. You should all understand that there are many cases of pleading innocence for the reason of insanity.........get the drift?
(my comments are below the orignal poster's)
His old teachers in Kathmandu say
>that SG has a history of being forgetful,
>being amnesiac, and it was just a massive
>piece of bad luck that
>landed on his head.
Get their notorized statements and courrier them over to his attorney.
>But, hey, even those make dumb mistakes
>DESERVE a fair trial.
Yes, absolutely. Even foreigners (whether you are out of status or not does not have any relavance) have rights to get a fair trial in this country. It's written in the constitution.
>Someone -- preferably from the Chicago area,
>though that's not necessary -- or a group of
>people need to take a clear PUBLIC
>leadership on the matter of
>assisting SG.
Agreed. And I say the leadership should first come out these organizations, who call themselves 'friends of nepalese' but haven't yet taken much pride in helping SB. The leaders from these organizations should contact their equal counterparts and form a 'pack of leadership' to show that they can really contribute in the time of extreme need.....
>(I can assist such a leader to get in touch with journalists in Nepal to generate >some positive press in Nepal, if that's necessary)
Publicity in Nepal won't do SG any good. What he needs is people willing to assist him in preparing a good defense. The judge won't buy any of his publictiy, but will certainly make a decision in the manner the case is presented before him.
>At the maximum, that means: Contacting the
>local Chicago chapter of American Civil
>Liberties Union, asking them for help.
This is a good idea. I have no doubt that his attorney will ask ACLU to get involved. ACLU should be able to assist SG in some manner, especially his civil rights. This means he is not discriminated against his race, ethnicity, and so forth.....
>If it can be proven that SG has a history of being forgetful, then charges against >him can be lenient, and he might be let off with a slap on the wrist.
His crime carries a maximum of 10 years in jail and $250,000 in fines if convicted. Since he committed a federal crime (changed to federal since the 11th) I wouldn't be that optimistic about a slap on the wrist, however the support documents you mentioned above should have an overall positive effect in his case.
>Additional work can be done: Such as,
>contacting the Chicago-based Honorary Consul
>of Nepal (an American businessman, whose
>name I forget now!), and see whether he can
>use his influence and contacts.
>
>Another additional work could be: Contacting
>the legal-aid clinics at the University
>Chicago Law School or the Northewestern
>University Law School, and see whether
>students there would be interested in this.
These kinds of influences do not change the way law is written about his crime. Its not as easy as sitting down with your congressman to discuss his case over a cup of tea hoping to influence him. Nothing beats a well researched/written/presented defense. I doubt it is a plausible idea to hand a case over to the law students. You wouldn't want a med. student performing a surgery on you, now would you?
>But to do any of this, some Nepali, some
>friends of SG or even random, well-
>intentioned, strategically-thinking needs to
>come forward and be willing to make some
>investment of time and efforts to help him.
>I don't think ANA, ANMA and others such
>organizations would be even remotely
>interested in helping SG, though I'd like to
>proven wrong on this.
Why not? Are these organizations so full of it that they don't even realize the reason for their mere existence? 'To preserve nepali culture and to help each other' is what comes to mind when reading one of their leaflets. Are the Pres. of these oragnizations taking a leave of absence? Come out and show some leadership.....
>
>I am not saying that he is innocent or
>guilty, but just that he deserves a fair
>trial, and it is in the interest of the
>Nepali community to start GETTING INVOLVED
>with the Americal legal and political
>systems as openly and as credibly as
>possible
>so that: a) a fellow Nepali is helped; and b)
> our collective knowledge is
>enhanced.
>To sum up, a leadership with those goals
>could do a reasonably good job of
>helping SG get a fair trial.
>
His innocence or guilt will be proven in court. No one has any knowledge of this but himself. But as a community, we should lend a hand. And it must start with the elected leaders of our big organizations. Take NAACP for example. Kweisi Mfume has taken this organization to another level of protecting his ppl from govt. interrogation and such. Granted our organization isn't as big or well funded, but the leadership must be as aggressive as theirs. Our involvement in the US plitical and legal scene is way over due. This is the right time to start. Come on you-so- called leaders.....don't just have your name Pres. on paper and hide under a desk, come out and show some willingness to light the fire......
-Sujan
>oohi
>ashu
>ktm,nepal
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| ashu |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 02:55 AM
Sujan and others,
As soon as a "connector" (or a public leader) between Subash and the rest of
us comes forward, then it's easier to get this ball rolling.
If this helps, I'm willing to volunteer my time to prepare testimonies/statements from SG's old teachers/contacts in Kathmandu and send them over to his attorney.
But first, we need a 'connector' to keep the communication channel open.
Again, the goal is to assure a fair trial as reasonably as we can, and assist the American legal system to do its job as fairly and as openly as it can.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| SNepali |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 09:49 AM
Ashu, VillageVoice, Sujan, Gaunlemaila and others,
I am so glad to see so many positive postings.
Now that SG has at least come out clean from the suspected dreadful association of terrorism, and many of us have realized the need to put a support together for him, like Ashu had said, we really need a "connector". It does appear like a case of mere forgetfulness or stupidity if you will. People do make genuine mistakes, small or big; that's when one needs help from others. In the absence of a "connector", we are not going anywhere.
I agree with Sujan. The last thing SG needs right now in Nepal is the publicity. It also needs a strong well researched summary of the facts in support.
Can GBNC take the lead? It will need initially with putting the information together, where the status of SG's case is and seeking out help from the community and others that could be helpful.
Come on GBNC! You can do it. Rise to the occasion. SG needs your help. After all, it is on the GBNC forum that I have seen the most meaningful discussion going on.
Do call your board meeting and see what everyone says. I think there will be a strong support among your board.
SJN
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| krishna |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 12:56 PM
Again, I propose that, for now, it might be wise to stay out of this situation, unless specifically requested by Gurung or his lawyer to get involved. With any luck, charges would be reduced or dropped and Gurung would be deported. Another option that saves face for the US and Nepal is for a deal to be cut over this--for example, Gurung could be deported in exchange for the release and deportation of a U.S. citizen currently imprisoned in Nepal for attempting to board a flight while carrying illegal items--say, hashish. Any thoughts?
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| gofigure |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 04:23 PM
Krishna,
Nobody is trying to impede the legal process. Not concerned about guilty or innocent! There is nothing wrong in trying to meet with SG, see he is OK; whether he has been able to contact his family; whether he needs someone to contact his family and let them know he is OK.
Nobody is suggesting here to jump over the fence. There is nothing wrong in going about legally.
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| Sherchan |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 09:04 PM
Krishna, it sounds like you have an approach that of a khardar or a subba saheb. Wait and see and do nothing. Time will heal iteself. May be so. At least I am glad that you are not a doctor. Otherwise, you would probably say "let's see first whether the patient dies or survives before giving him the treatment". If he dies, then "khel khattam", if he survives,then let's give him the medicine so that you can claim the credit for it. What is the point of going through so cautious route here, Krishna? Thourgh the support to Gurung, you are also going to help bring more clarity to the case. I think the point villagevoice made was good. I think Gurung needs some help at this time. Would'n't you agree?
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| BP |
Posted
on 10-Nov-01 01:08 AM
Sounds like your standard HMO doctor.
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| Sujan |
Posted
on 11-Nov-01 12:12 PM
As of today SG is still detained. He waived his right for a preliminary hearing Thursday knowing he would be denied bond because of his expired student visa. His next hearing has not been scheduled as of today. At this point, I strongly urge all of you to get in touch with your elected leaders of your organizations such as GBNC to ask them to get involved or whether they have outlined any agendas to assist SG.
Think about it this way...if you were the one to have been accused whether you are a citizen or have fallen out of status in this country, would you not feel neglected by your fellow nepali countrymen if no one came forward or made some effort to assist you without the conviction of your innocence or guilt? You probably would not be aware of the atrocities that you would be enduring during the process. But, you would darn feel proud that we didnt' turn our backs on you. The same goes for assisting SG.
I have tried to contact some of these leaders, but they haven't yet gotten back to me yet. Reverse this cycle of Nepalese ppl turning their backs on their fellow countrymen. Remember, you do have a duty...
-Sujan
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| ashu |
Posted
on 12-Nov-01 09:13 AM
Hi all,
We of various Nepali communities had NOTHING to do with Samrat Upadhyay's success. Samrat worked hard for more than a decade pretty much all by himself.
Yet that did NOT stop most of us from taking an immense JOY (or sukha) from a fellow Nepali's literary success. (Success, after all, is easy to celebrate and Samrat's doing well made our Nepali 'naak' much bigger.)
That is all fine and good.
By the same token, think about this too: We had NOTHING to
do with the reasons that led to SG's arrest. Yet somehow most of us
ordinary Nepalis and our so-called leaders of our various community organizations CANNOT even come up in public with a sentiment to share SG's dukha, let alone
putting our so-called " the best and brightest" heads together to devise a strategy to assist SG -- guilty or innocent -- get a trial that takes a look at his
WHOLE picture.
This raises an interesting philosophical conundrum:
Just what is the limit of being a concerned Nepali abroad or anywhere? That is, you know, does being a concerned Nepali means taking pride in a fellow Nepali's success and publicizing his/her success AS WELL AS taking dukha in a fellow Nepali's failure and see how one can help, if at all?
If not, is there a continuum in such a thinking process , or perhaps there is a clear split between "we should only celebrate success stories" and "keep away from
tales of failure"?
I would like to think that anyone who is ACTUALLY serious about investing his/her time and efforts to make a difference in Nepal and in Nepali communities
-- now or later, as a concerned Nepali -- really needs to think about this
issue a lot more deeply.
After all, effectively working in Nepal -- as far as my limited experiences go -- is ALL ABOUT turning failures into successes in any given field, whether presenting an alternative to political parties or reforming the legal system or
making whatever else better than what it is.
And doing that, I would think, means taking, having a lot of guts, energy, persistence and tenacity, a sense of fairness, compassion and a capacity to communicate well.
And so, I would like to urge all that before we all get carried away with this image of "best and brightest" doing wonderful things for Nepal, let us first learn to tackle relatively small challenges such as assisting SG or dealing with other instances of failures that we come across in our various comminuties.
That would help us see and understand how well we do in terms of HELPING to turn those failures into modest success, and we can learn our lessons now for the
future.
Else , as was in David Halberstam's gripping book about the Vietnam War (Titled, what else but: "The best and brightest"), the best and the brightest Nepalis, even with gold-plated Harvard and Princeton resumes and all that stuff, are LIKELY to mis-lead the rest of us than help us Nepalis turn our failures into successes.
Please feel free to disagree.
(Thanks Sujan for sharing news about SG.)
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| smp |
Posted
on 12-Nov-01 09:38 AM
A Letter from Sharda Thapa in Chicago regarding Subash Thapa:
Chicago, IL
November 9, 2001
To Whom It May Concern:
On behalf of his brothers and the Nepali community in Chicago, I am sending an account of the extremely high profile case of Subash Bahadur Gurung. We are using this opportunity to set the record straight and fill in the gaps in the knowledge of the events about which many Nepalis may have received questions. We hope that the course of events will ultimately result in this disturbed young man being cleared of any terrorist connections and being sent back into the care of his parents after some difficult times.
Subash came to the USA in 1998 to pursue higher education and ended up in a local college here in Chicago. Over time, however, something went wrong and he become more withdrawn and unsociable. He was not touch with most members of the community and dropped out of school. In October 2000 he moved with one of his two younger brothers to Minnesota where both are enrolled in school. He remained there, a recluse, not enrolled in school and with an expired visa until end of October 2001. It was during this idle period that he apparently amassed, through online purchases, the knives and materials that have been in the news accounts. At this time his brother persuaded him to return to Nepal which he agreed to do and thus his trip to Chicago. He had the cash given to him to pay for his ticket to Nepal as well as his possessions to take back home. He even claimed to have reserved an airline ticket to Nepal that was never purchased.
During his three-day stay in Chicago he also is known to have visited both his previous residences trying to rent apartments. Unfortunately, one of these buildings had been publicized by the media as the purported residence of someone detained after September 11. At some point he apparently changed his mind and decided to stay on in the US. A friend offered to pick him up in Omaha. He therefore purchased the one-way ticket for cash with the consequences that everyone has seen heard or read about.
He had been under medication for psychiatric disorders in Nepal from a period dating back nine years. His brothers and friends all say that he discontinued this after he arrived in the US. He has been described as forgetful, unsociable, reserved, uncommunicative and withdrawn by those who knew him during his stay at Chicago. The brothers and friends all believe that whatever occurred is a function of these factors and not because of any overt harmful intent. It will now be up to the courts and the investigators to verify this in the next step of the process that he is now in.
During his initial appearance on Federal charges he was provided a capable attorney through the Federal Defender Program and his defense is being handled professionally. His brothers are in the process to visit with him and provide him moral support. It appears that this will take some time. His local friends and acquaintances are providing all relevant information for his defense. His attorney decided to forego the preliminary hearing scheduled for yesterday and move on to the next step, the timing of which is up to the prosecution. He has chosen to concentrate on prepare his defense and has set the machinery in motion. In the meantime Subash will remain in detention without the possibility of bail.
If there are any registered Nepali mental health professionals in the US, they might be of some assistance or if anyone has any relevant information that could help, please contact me and I will put you in touch with the attorney.
Thank you very much.
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| krishna |
Posted
on 12-Nov-01 10:53 AM
>Krishna,
>Nobody is trying to impede the legal process.
> Not concerned about guilty or innocent!
>There is nothing wrong in trying to meet
>with SG, see he is OK; whether he has been
>able to contact his family; whether he needs
>someone to contact his family and let them
>know he is OK.
>Nobody is suggesting here to jump over the
>fence. There is nothing wrong in going about
>legally.
Please quote where I have stated otherwise. In fact, I have suggested that the best approach at this point is to stay out of this EXCEPT for contacting the parties affected an asking them if any assistance is needed--which is perfectly in line with what you suggest. I do have a problem, however, with folks rushing in uninvited with unsolicited plans--though they are free to do so.
Speaking of the legal process, I find it interesting that no one commented on the three options I laid out in a recent posting related to this event. I suggested that, if members of the Nepali community in the US wanted to do something to minimize future incidents (I believe Gurung is in the country illegally at the time of his arrest), that the status of Nepalis illegally in the US need to be rectified. Three options concerned members of the community could take are: (1) Do nothing; (2) Work within the community to help members secure/maintain legal status; (3) Cooperate with the Immigration and Naturalizaton Service of the U.S. Department of Justice to secure/maintain legal status for Nepalis in the States.
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| ashu |
Posted
on 12-Nov-01 11:42 AM
Thanks to this GBNC Web site, and relentless offerings of solicited and UNSOLICITED advice/concerns by many fine folks here, we -- collectively -- now know more about Subash Gurung than we would have otherwise.
All that adds up to a PLUS point; and that is an advantage of having an
OPEN, INFO-rich discussion about issues.
Though Nepalis in general, I suppose, tend to frown upon mental disorders of any kind, the US legal system maintains that even those with mental disorders have a right to A FAIR TRIAL-- and, as such, the thrust of the argument is still the same as before.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| Sujan |
Posted
on 13-Nov-01 07:56 PM
Ashu and all,
I think Ashu hit it right on the spot with his comments about the lack of involvement of some of our community leaders. It is a shame that they run for office just to imitate the-so-called leader, and yet when it comes time to deliver they are slow as molasses if they ever do. Majority of my ppl I know never question the status quo- NEVER. Just because there are Nepalese all over the US or Boston or where ever does not mean that it's community is strong. Nor is it just because an organization holds a few events in a year, like they do in the east and the west coast. All of us need to do more than this if we are going to make this country our home. I would love to see an active participation from everyone, whether you work as a dishwasher or design lunar prototypes for NASA. This is what I am emphasizing- you elected leaders should try to bring everyone together in a nonprejudicial way, so that we don't leave anyone out. And yes, you leaders have to deal with those that have ' I'm better than you ' mentality out there, who try to make it even more difficult. I must say the previous statement has been the foremost evil in making our community stronger in the past.
Even those of you who are much better off now with your gold-plated degrees will need the community's assistance in the future. So, don't neglect them.....
-Sujan
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