| Username |
Post |
| NK |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 10:12 AM
Hello,
Somebody wanted me to post this message for him.
“Hi, My name is Atmaram Tripathi. I live in Ramechap wada no.5. I am in dilemma. I have a daughter who is 13 year old. Now she has finished her school in the village which was free upto the 5th class. Here is my question. Should I send her down in the ‘besi’ for further studies or should I send her to Kathmandu to be a ‘kanchi?’ Your input in this matter will be appreciated. If I send her to Kathmandu I can survive and even thrive (with all that money coming from the rich sahu) and if I send her to ‘besi’, since I am a poor farmer, it is a money drain. But she might become somebody someday and earn. Any ideas?”
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| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 10:47 AM
namaste,
kasto gaero prasna! sunera matra ni dukha lagcha nepal ma yesto huncha bhanera.. aakhir kati deen hami nepali haroole yesto prashna sodhi rahane.. kati GADHA jasta neta haroolai dhani banai rahane? hey bhagwaan pashu patinath, desh bachau.. feri euta arko nepali babu le yesto prasna sodhna naparos..sabai lai dui chaak khana, dui jor launa sakne banai deu..
Greetings,
Its sad even to hear this question. Seriously, how long are we going to make our good-for-nothing leaders rich? For how long our nepali fathers will be in such dellemas? Hey, lord pashupatinath, save our nation... don't makle another nepali father ask this question.. bless everyone with two emals of daal-bhaat a day and two pairs of clothes.
Trailokya
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| NK |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 11:03 AM
yes, trailokya. when i hear about the heart wrenching dilemma of a father who wants to know whether Xavier or Godavari is the best for his son and 40 something response ranging from the talk of royalties to the comparison of Mercedez and Beemer, I could not help myself thinking about the other (half?) fathers/mothers who think choice is something you dream of.
I cannot help but think - I think that is what I do - think and wonder.
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| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 12:04 PM
Yes, Namita. you are so right. Seems like people who frequent this board are more concerned about Xaviers and Budhanilkantha, but do not care about what goes on with the majority of people in nepal. I wonder why all our bigg debators(??) who can go on and on about things that have nothing to do anything even remotely with Nepal, are silent on this issue. Its indeed very interesting. maybe we should change our own perceeption of the world, before coming here and talking big.
Trailokya
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| CONCERNED |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 12:21 PM
THIS IS A REALLY GOOD SATIRE ON THE DEBATE ON BKNS AND XAVIER'S..
KEEP UP THIS KIND OF WORK !!
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| Tripti |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 12:25 PM
Whay kind of person are you? Someone told you to post it and you posted it? Wah Wah!! I think it is not someone else's problem, it is your problem. Nepal ma hajur jasto manche bhaye pachi aru ke nai chahiyo?? You know what? You need money you can come here and sell yourself in USA. Here are many women who will buy you. Wany to be a Jigolo? I m sure the pure nepali blood doesn't run inside you otherwise in Nepal a man will die but will never sell his daughter like that. Ask yourself a are you pure Nepali or trying to make fun of us Nepali? Please don't do that again.
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| NK |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 12:51 PM
Concerned, thank you. I think in my deep heart I am a cynic and a satirist. Dear Trailoky, I am NK and please refer me by that name if you could. Namita does not exist in this board anymore. Explanation lies in the past so-called debates.
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| kale |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 01:01 PM
Tripti!
I think u did not understand what NK was writting, actually it is truth. Father was not trying to sell his dughter, some time they think their daughter will better and happy living with sahu in ktm than living with them who can't even provide food to eat. Imagine ur self in that situation...?
u seem one of those who discussed abt choosing st xavier or budha. Some nepali who live in ktm, and had their life like american standard eventhough they r in ktm..don't understand this kind of dielema happens in nepal...open ur eyes tripti and exploer REAL nepal.
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| Jetha |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 01:02 PM
'Kanchi' would be an equivalent to a housemaid here in US. But it's sad to see a 10 year old childcspend rest of her life being a kanchi.
Tripti, I think you have totally misunderstood what NK was trying to point out.
More than 60% of people in Nepal live in poverty. 30% of children are out of school and 70% drop out by 5th grade. 80% is the SLC failure rate in public schools. And did you know that 95% of education fund for primary education goes to teachers salary?This is really saddening and sometimes it seems helpless.
This poor father has a very difficult choice to make. It's easy for most of us who grew up with substantial financial support to send our children to school. But for most Nepali people it's extremely difficult.
However there are so many ways we can support our children in Nepal.
There are so many people who are willing to give. We just have to look and make an effort to collect and utilize those fundings properly. I know there are lots of 'chors' in our political system but lets slowly get rid of them and bring new leaders who can truly make a difference!\
God Bless our Children!
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| CG |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 01:11 PM
If someone I know said that to me, I'd be willing to give the farmer 10 bucks a month to send his daughter to school. I don't like people I know to have to suffer. It's hard to see people I don't know suffer. It pains me to see people I know who suffer.
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| La Femme Nikita |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 01:36 PM
The status quo needs to be dismantled. Nepal needs a wholesale revolution. That's it.
Poverty will continue to reign supreme if the current political scenario continues, and parents continue to face such undesirable situations of "agaadi kholo, pacchadi bhadkhalo" unless we root out the prevailing system.
No wonder Ramechhap is a red fort.
We need a fully masses-oriented system; a full-blown revolution unlike that of 1990.
How can we bring about a real revolution in Nepal?
Let's discuss it.
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| Gandhi |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 01:52 PM
Triptiji,
Here are few real life experiences in rural Nepal. Well, you may dismiss me just saying I am another NK. I am not criticizing you for your answers to NKji, please don't take it personal. Rather I hope this will help broaden the horizon for those who don't have enough opportunity to experience the rural Nepal yet. I don't know NKji in person, neither do I know her background. But I think the point she has raised is still real in some parts of the country.
Eastern Hills of Nepal:
If you go by database (PAC source), only 36% of population are food sufficient, 28% are food deficit for 1-6 months and another 36% are food deficit for 7-12 months in the eastern hills (third category includes 3% landless farmers also). So, what will be the livelihood pattern of those third category of farmers? What question will the father of a daughter in that group ask to himself before sending his kids to school? Sure, majority of the fathers have chosen their kids to be porter "Bhariya" when they are at the age (not legal age) to carry 20 kg of loads on their back all the way from Chatara to Hatiyagola. Instead of going to school these adolscents were carrying goods from Chatara to Bhojpur which took at least three days for just 7 rupees a kilo (1996) which is still continued. Isn't it one form of selling? There are still many areas in other parts of the country, including Chitwan, where there are teachers more than the number of student in a school. I hope you have read one such news on Kantipur few months ago where a school was closed because the only student enrolled left it.
Middle Hills of Nepal:
Can you imagine who took the girls to India for prostitution from ............. district? In large number of cases, they were fathers who took their daughters to India. Those proud fathers would frequent to the owner of the brothel annually to receive money which their daughers earned by woking in there. Non-imaginable, you can refute me, but it is sad and real. Thanks to the non-tiring efforts of NGOs and GOs working agains girls trafficking/STD/HIV/AIDS prevention, it has now come to a halt in the past few years (At least fathers won't take their daughters anymore). Otherwise a proud father whould show his Zinc roofed house to his villagers and would say "this is from my Maili's earning who is working in India".
(Inner) Terai Western Nepal:
I think I don't need to elaborate anything about the situation in Banke district where certain community is well-known for their sex trade. The fathers or husbands often ignored that their daughters/wives are sleeping with a visiting civil servant or a passing by trader for money. Now and often, we read in the newspaper that this much of women or men have expressed that they look for alternative means of livelihood and don't want to follow their traditional sex business. It has not come to a halt yet, though for good, the situation has changed and very less men and women go back to their traditional way. [I have not lived in that community. What I have written here is based on various articles in Nepali daily/weekly newspapers and experience from my undergraduate collegues who lived in that district]. Do we expect this father to spend money on his daugther's education?
Hiring a Kanchhi:
I think NKji's indication to be a ' Kanchhi' does not necessarily mean to be a 'rakhail' of a sahu at that age but be a 'maid'. It is not hard to find many examples near your own house where people have hired 10-15 year-old-girls to look after their children as both husband and wife are working. If you have not, I have found many such examples. Now it is entirely upon you to think has the father sold her or not.
For me, NKji's question has raised a point how best have we seen the another side of the coin while talking about BKNS and Xaviers.
Gandhi
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| joie de vivre |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 02:03 PM
I can understand Trailokya’s frustration towards our ‘good-for-nothing rich leaders’ and have often vented myself. But knowing as we do that we can’t depend on them to improve the plight of our nation, I say it’s time we stopped gripping and actually DID something.
I think the onus lies on us to do something about issues like this. I’m not talking about a grand-scale program [especially after unwittingly funding several ‘brainstorming sessions’ at some posh resort or the other for (to use Trailokya’s words) ‘good-for-nothing’ NGOs]. I know several Nepali people who’ve taken it upon themselves to sponsor a child back home. If each of us sponsored a child for just $50 a month (or maybe even less depending on which school you enrolled the child in), perhaps we’d hear less of incidents such as this. We might not be able to eradicate all the social ills prevalent in Nepal (illiteracy, poverty, child labor, the flesh trade etc., etc.) overnight but we’ve got to start somewhere don’t we? And the good thing about sponsoring a child is that you don’t even have to look too far. I’m sure most (if not all) the Nepali folks in the US (or other countries) have ‘kanchis’ (or kanchas) of their own back home. How about sending them to school? It’s a win-win situation if you ask me; he/she gets an education (and thus a shot at being more than someone’s kanchi all their lives) and you’re taking a proactive step to bring positive changes in your country – could you ask for more?
And to those of you who’re currently ‘sponsoring’ their already wealthy (by Nepal standards) nieces or nephews – that doesn’t count (or at least it doesn’t in my books – not that what I think means much).
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| NK |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 02:54 PM
Thank you all for the elaboration on my point with your unfailing statistics (esp. Gandhi and Jetha) and unflappable enthusiasm, and cry for help (esp. Trailokya's) . Gandhijee wondered about my background. Suffice to say I have travelled from purba mechi dekhi pachim mahakali. Lived in Europe for some time and studied here. And, I can say I have seen it all. OK maybe not all but let's just say I have seen it. This problem is as real as it can get. I have talked to my distant relatives and visited in their gaoun where I learned the chepang 'meet' of my mama have no food for 6 months in a year and his people smear themselves with kharani on their body to warm themselves up in winter. That day I found out by doing so one can keep warm! I keep up with the news like many people here. I have gone to France to attend wedding and also I have seen my 10 year old friend getting married off in a 'bail gada.' That was in Mahendra Nagar maybe 15 years ago. In my trek to Annapurna, the tea house owner in Manang said they have a "laundry service." At 6 in the morning I saw an 8 year old kid washing my clothes in below 20 degrees water in that cold morning in Manang! Later I found out he gets a meager monthly salary (not the money we gave) for waking up at 5 in that cold and washing and washing and washing. And have we forgotten the little kancha/kanchi in and around our house doing our work - washing dishes, doing laundry, shopping, fetching a glass of water? Have you wondered while in Nepal where they come from? And what are the circumstances leading them to become a servant in that young age? So this little piece was just to shake people's conscience and make them think. That would be the 1st step. Let's not forget there are more have nots than haves. We can give the have-nots a voice, a platform. We have to start from somewhere,no?
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| Triptifaction |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 03:35 PM
Hey there tripti, are you good at giving tripti? I'm good at that too. Let's triptify each other.
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| Gandhi |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 10:01 PM
NKji,
Thanks for sharing your background experience. However, I didn't mean I was wondering about it. I would write to you personally if I wondered about it. Unless professionally required, I won't be interested to know anyone's personal information, whether good or bad, in public. I was just exclaiming on Triptiji how can (she) tell so harsh words to someone who has no other intention but good to bring the issue in public discussion. BTW, I admire your experience in working with the vulnerable group of the people.
Gandhi
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| ashu |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 10:14 PM
Guys,
Call me a skeptic, but, you know, I did NOT really believe that Anil Tandukar really wanted to make a decision for his son between STX and BKS. That too, without having acceptance letters in hand.
I was pretty certain it was someone who probably wanted to see a "fight" erupt
between STX and BKS guys here so that s/he can quietly enjoy the scene. But, thankfully, we are all MATURE people, and far from such fights, what emerged were a lot of GOOD issues, . . . all of which must have caught Anil Tandukar by surprise.
[These are only my gut feelings, and I am willing to be proven wrong!]
Likewise, this putative choice of the village father also sounds UNTRUE to me, not least because villagers are NO so simplistic about their decison-making ways.
Sure, it is interesting as a HYPOTHETICAL debate point, and we can go in all directions and learn from one another. If that NK's intention, then, that's
fine.
But having travelled to about 45 Nepali districts by now, including Ramechaap,
one thing I have learnt is this: When identifying themselves, Nepalis are very particular and very specific about where they are from, which VDC and so on.
For the record, I doubt whether any Nepali would identify his or her living in a place called: "Ramechap wada no.5." There is NO such place.
That said, it is great to debate even HYPOTHETICAL scenarios, and THAT IS FINE, and NK must be congratulated for stirring our thoughts.
Then you never know: just in case, with my saying this here, I am quite ready for an avalanche of attacks by NK, Kris and Mike Bhinaju. :-)
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| anepalikt |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 11:15 PM
stop being paranoid ashu. no one's attacking you. but i have to say that the short quip about "i have been to 45 districts in nepal including Ramechap might get some folks riled up.
But anyhow, who know if Mr. Anil (i think it was Tuladhar, no?) really wanted to get folks fighting. who cares? who cares who goes/went to what school! i can't beleive that folks hold on to these old old school loyalties and rivalaries for so long.
i agree that nk's post though is something to just get folks talking. i have to say it fell a little short for me... notwithstanding that the truth of the disparity that nk might be pointing to between the kinds of choices these two famileis face. yes, villagers doesn't mean simpleton... furthermore, nepalis not so dualistic..... lots of gray of shades before the black.....
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| Siwalik |
Posted
on 09-Nov-01 11:29 PM
I am all for establishing the "sponsor" a child program. No matter what the purpose of this discussion is, the fact remains that majority or Nepalese live under abject poverty. Children get the brunt of the social injustice. (When I was working in a village, I had lot of children come to beg for work in my project.) In our endeavor to uplift Nepal, it is essential that education get a priority. We may not be able to build a Budhanilkantha School in every zone or region, but we can start with what is possible. For the time being, it might be possible to sponsor children back home. SEBS has such program going on. If you are inerested to act what you preach, you might want to peek into www.sebsonline.org and see what those sebsers are doing, in what little way they can. I would urge you to look at their program, and read it all on the net. And hopefully partake in it.
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| joie de vivre |
Posted
on 10-Nov-01 12:05 AM
I practice therefore I preached.
No offense to Sebs-NA but as I'm not affiliated with that organization in any way I'll pass on your invitation to contribute to that fund.
The whole point of my earlier posting was that one doesn't have to think big or join organizations like Sebs-NA to help make someone's life better. Every bit helps, so just go out there and DO something regardless of whether it's directly sponsoring a child yourself or making contributions towards organizations such as Sebs-NA.
(Before I have 'budhas' jump at my throat - I'm NOT discouraging people from joining forces with Sebs-NA, just trying to make a point. You just oh-so-conveniently happened to provide Sebs as an example).
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| somebody |
Posted
on 10-Nov-01 08:55 AM
To Ashu: Does paranoia knows any boundary? For your "Boston Educated" half-empty brain as NK pointed out it was a satire!!! A satire, get it??? Now, how come you have not compared AT's choice between china made bicycle and walking with only one leg?
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| Nisha Rana |
Posted
on 10-Nov-01 11:02 AM
Dear Aatmaram,
I know you are in a great dilemma, but being a woman, I would strongly suggest that you send your daughter to the besi for further education. It will definitely be difficult for you being a poor farmer,on the one hand all the money coming from the sahu, and on the other you having to pay for your daughters education i.e. money draining from you. But believe me your sacrifice will make your daughters life and she will be really grateful. In this day and age education especially for girls is really important. There has to be ways we can think of to help her. Maybe some of us here can help out. Why don't you send me some information, we have a group of Nepali women here who want to help Nepali girls, girls like your daughter, we have just organized the group. If it works out your daughter will be the first person we will help out. Send me information about how much the education costs, and her books and stuff like that I cannot promise you a lot, but there is no harm in trying to see if we can. I hope you choose to send your daughter to school. Please send me the information I have asked for. Good Luck!!
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| Siwalik |
Posted
on 10-Nov-01 11:29 AM
Well, I do appreciate that some people want to do their part on their own. I support the sentiment and the action. My point is that some individuals who would like to do something but are hindered by time constarints or other drawbacks can use organizations that are already doing something, but would get a boost from broader support. From comments such as "I'm not affiliated with that organization in any way," it is clear how long we have to go. I do not see it as an affiliation problem, I see it as a bias against SEBS. A good deed is a good deed no matter how you accomplish it. There is no reason to feel that using means that already exists is going to take away from the goodness. This attitude is also a prime example of inability of Nepalese to see a great good and confine in their narrow perspectives. lack of affiliation is not a restriction. Lack of broadening the mind is.
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| joie de vivre |
Posted
on 11-Nov-01 01:13 PM
Call it what you will Siwalik, but I'd rather put my money where I know 100% of it is going to benefit the needy rather than donate to a fund where some percentage of it is eaten up by 'administrative costs'. I honestly don't know if Sebs-NA even has any administrative costs but I've been burned enough by other 'well-meaning' NGOs and I'm not about to be burned again.
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| ds |
Posted
on 11-Nov-01 03:16 PM
Tripti,
I think you are brain damaged and blind.
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| BP |
Posted
on 11-Nov-01 08:46 PM
If the father cannot feed the child, then sending her to the city may be the only choice. Or, if she is mature, outgoing, and accomplished and wants to make more of herself in the city, then that may be another reason to send her, But if she is not already mature but can do something productive around the house and one day become self-sufficient and married, then it would be hard to justify sending her somewhere else where she may be taken advantage of. If she were my daughter, I would send her away only if I couldn't sustain her, or if she was mature and wants to make something of herself.
Lots of caveats in there though.
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| Siwalik |
Posted
on 13-Nov-01 10:52 AM
joie de vivre: Could you elaborate on your strategy of 100 percent utilization of your donation? I am curious to know what mechanism and methodology you are considering, and if you have already acted on it, could you please share with us your experience?
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| joie de vivre |
Posted
on 13-Nov-01 02:38 PM
With your corporate lingo (strategy, mechanism, methodology) you make it sound like I’m a huge philanthropist :) Let me be the first to tell you I’m anything but. I’d be more than happy to share my experience with you, but lest someone accuse me of blowing my own trumpet, I’ll do so in an email to you. For the purpose of this forum, let it suffice it to say that every little helps and if you think about it, there’s a lot we can do [especially those of us who’re fortunate enough to be making a more than decent living (by Nepali standards) in the US or other foreign countries] to help those less fortunate than us without making huge sacrifices.
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| joie de vivre |
Posted
on 13-Nov-01 03:13 PM
To Siwalik... tried sending you an email, came back as 'undeliverable'. If you're still interested to hear what I have to say, please provide me with your email address.
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| aakas |
Posted
on 13-Nov-01 05:09 PM
Mr. Ashu,
I am from Ramechhap. Bhuji wada no 9. Ramechhap is one of the least developed district in nepal and all the people in that area face similar problems.
I don't think so that you have ever visited Ramechhap. Probably this was the first time that you ever heard of Ramechhap. What makes you think that Ramechhap wada no.5 does not exist. Most probably you might also say that Bhjui does not exist too. Remember "Najane gaun ko bato nasodhnu."
You might say that I am from the rich family, well the answer is hell NO. I am from one of the most "pichideako jaati". I don't want to discuss my personal experience here in public.
Because of ghusiya netas Ramechhap is still durgam chettra.
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| Siwalik |
Posted
on 13-Nov-01 09:49 PM
joie de vivre: Don't you think what information you have would be of benefit to those people who are also thinlking of having 100 percent of their contribution go to the children they might want to sponsor? I appreciate your offer, but I would prefer if others could benefit too. If it feels like you are blowing your own trumpet, I am sure others will understand that you did not intend it. I hope you can share it in this forum. For your into, I have not sponsored any child other than through a Christian charity. And no, I am not a Christian.
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| joie de vivre |
Posted
on 13-Nov-01 10:08 PM
To Siwalik
I'm not comfortable talking about the details of how I'm sponsoring children in Nepal in a public forum. When I said 100% of my contribution benefits these girls, I merely meant that nothing of what I give goes towards administrative costs such as rent, salaries, office supplies etc. as it would have had I chosen to donate to an NGO or other such organizations; EVERYTHING goes towards these children's education, clothes etc. I'd have thought my original posting on this topic was more than self-explanatory.
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| Gandhi |
Posted
on 14-Nov-01 10:40 AM
One of the way could be contacting a school of your choice. Write to the Headmaster/Chairman of your intention to help some girls and define the conditions why and how you want to help. The norms can be agreed upon in written agreement between two parties so that a girl from some particular backward community can get benefitted with your help. Later the school nominates the girls following prescribed guidelines and you pay the money. See how it works. However, it works only with the students already enrolled in school.
For the ones who are not yet enrolled in school but are interested, the provision for scholarship will attract them to join the school and get it. Refer to the thread about Dr. Aruna Upreti where they are doing the same thing. In this case, the teachers, management committee members and the ward representatives can help in achieving your aim.
Gandhi
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| ramechhap lover |
Posted
on 14-Nov-01 05:25 PM
aakas ji..
u probably did not get ashu's point that ramechhap wada no 5 does not exist..obviously it does not exist..by mentioning this ashu did not want to say that the people in ramechhap are not going thru what is the reality there. he just wanted to point out that the address needed to be more specific( i believe ramechhap is a jilla..). i'm also not against nk for bringing up a hypothetical topic(if it really is a made up topic) or supporting ashu for whatever he has to say.I just wanted to make u clear what he was trying to say. Folks..i know my convincing is not worth the topic of discussion..else our oohi ashu would have done it right away..but i just felt like posting a few words..btw, NK ,the topic u chose was really worth discussing and i am anticipating more brains..
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