| Username |
Post |
| Biswo |
Posted
on 17-Nov-01 02:27 PM
Nobel Laureate Albert Camus's novel The Plague seems to be very relevant book
to remember now.It was a great novel which earned the writer Nobel prize.
But increasingly and interestingly I have found that the lesson of the novel is
applicable everywhere, in Nepal, in America's wars, and in GBNC kurakani also.
It is a novel about the epidemic of plague in Oran, Algeria in 1940. It starts with
the dead cadaver of rat found by a doctor.It is then ensued by the long story
of how individuals cope with the plague. Camus visits the mind of all people in
his literary drive, and pens the revolt that evil forces inducts in the mind of
suppressed, almost resigned, and inflicted people. When the plague is finally
controlled, and when everybody is celebrating the end of plague, the novel
ends with somewhat following caveat: the bacteria of plague(I forgot the name)
can simply live for long time without doing anything, just waiting for its conducive
time.And when people are careless about it, it starts proliferating, and throwing
dead rats out in the street.
************------------------------------***************--------------------------
How we thought we conquered the evil, the Hitler, the Musolini, the Soviets,but
how other evils resurfaced again and again. Latest in this sequence is Taliban.
According to a report in MSNBC, in Nazibullah's communist rule of Afganistsan,
15% of legislative members were women, 50% of all government workers were
women, and 40% of all doctors were women. They were all forced to live a life of
suppression in all 90s, first by those crazy Mujahiddeens, and then by Talibans.
Oh, boy. What a difference the wild bunches made in that nation!
Then how we thought we conquered the Ranas, the evils of Nepal, and how we
ended up in another mess. Then we thought we routed the Panchayat and then
we were in another problematic mess just within a few years into multiparty
system. The most intense bacterium became Girija. people thought they got rid
of him, but he simply came back, again and again, whenever he got time to
proliferate. Like the famous bacterium of the Plague, we couldn't get rid of these
evil factors completely, even when we celebrated their defeat.
*********-----------------------***************-------------------------------******
Now about gbnc. We all know about the nature of Kurakani. To compare it with
Plague, or Hitler etc is extremism,of course. But the lesson of this novel is very
relevant here also. We are always in danger of plunging into the abyss of personal
animosity displayed in public, and personal lust and sexist views displayed in public, all the abysses we don't like very much.This vice waits in 'interregnum' of
sane postings, and rears its head whenever it gets chance.We are unfortunately
forced to relapse into this unfortunate situation again and again, because of
the inveterate recidivism of a few individuals here.
A lot of times, I think most of other posters here are great. But when postings like
"This site is THIS SITE because of THIS PERSON" things surfaces, then I doubt
how much developed or mature we are.Quoting the most famous statement
of ingratiation in Indian politics, "Indira is India, India is Indira" by S Barua , president of Congress (I), and comparing this with this statement here is relevant.
Such comparison risks making apotheosis out of mediocrity and we need to eschew
that, if we want to become sane and civilized.
This is also becoming the site where people are increasingly being judged by the
school they went. St Xaviers, Budhanilakantha, Harvard, Princeton, MIT etc are
being the most repeated words. The focus on such vacuous things, in stead of
personal achievements, is useless. We are risking of being elitists. We are, worse,
trying to cloak our inability and weakness by displaying the badge of our previous
schools.
If we want to impress others, it is better we become result-oriented, modest and
inclusive.Also, name calling,if there is any,should be avoided at any cost. Afterall,
we can't prove anything by that.Amen.
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| _BP |
Posted
on 17-Nov-01 04:14 PM
Now, when you put it like that, how can one disagree? One thing I find amusing is that some people seem to villify Ashu for contributing tons of stuff to this site, and being verbose. Well, I come to this site looking for verbosity. It really helps me pass my down tme. If someone offers more information than I need, well, then I just won't worry about it. But the fact is I do enjoy reading everyone's postings. I feel proud that so many Nepalis are so well educated. I don't even care if they are tooting their own horns. Toot away! I for one want to know. And if you keep tooting, that is fine by me too. I will form my own opinions, without accusing people of being homesexuals or anything.
It is ironic how some people are so sensitive to references made to them on this site (the "dreaded smear campaign") while at the same time making fun of someone else for spending so much time on a silly online forum.
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| Numa |
Posted
on 17-Nov-01 05:52 PM
Being somewhat of an anglophile, I trudge along highways that pose dangerous to my own identity, but I remember, I remember all that was and who I am when walk in here and see people equally if not more in love with the English language than I am. This gives me the balance or even the counter balance.
Although I have been somewhat taciturn towards discussions/controversies/debates and contentions and sometimes plain and simple feuds I could not restrain myself when a favorite writer “ Camus” stood out to be discussed. I had to emerge from my lair and comment on him, just to pay my respects to the author that most of my teenage energy was consumed in, finding facts about him and sometimes thinking I am him.
Contradictions
Accept life, take it as it is? Stupid. The means of doing otherwise? Far from our having to take it, it is life that possesses us and on occasion shuts our mouths.
Accept the human condition? I believe that, on the contrary, revolt is part of human nature.
To pretend to accept what is imposed on us is a sinister comedy. First of all we must live. So many things are capable of being loved that it is ridiculous to seem to desire pain.
Comedy. Pretense. One must be sincere. Sincere at any price, even to our own detriment.
Neither revolt nor despair, moreover. Life with what it has. To accept it or revolt against it is to place oneself in opposition to life. Pure illusion. We are in life. It strikes us, mutilates us, spits in our face. It also illuminates us with crazy and sudden happiness that makes us participants. It is short. This is enough. Still make no mistake: there is pain. Impossible to evade. Perhaps, deep within ourselves, life's essential lot.
Our contradictions. The mystics and Jesus Christ. Love. Communion. Certainly, but why waste words? More later.
--Albert Camus
The controversial subjects that he dealt with such alacrity, brevity and audacity leaves me speechless and wonder why I even try to write, yet the inspiration creeps in, in a sort of a nihilistic manner. The minimalsim is overwhelming!
But to quote him again “ why waste words? More later”
Thanks Biswo ;)
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 18-Nov-01 12:32 AM
>If someone offers more information than I need, well, then I just won't worry
>about it. But the fact is I do enjoy reading everyone's postings. I feel proud that
>so many Nepalis are so well educated. I don't even care if they are tooting their
>own horns. Toot away!
Huh.
However, those people who want to clean garbages of this site shouldn't be
discredited by saying they can ignore the garbage, because the garbage is
thrown in public property.Their good intention should be appreciated.
As for comments. Let's consider this comment by our one fellow poster.
"this site is what it is today IN PART because of my being here. " (though quoted
presumably from a private email (?), it is reproduced gleefully and probably
reflected the poster's own thought.)
I agree with the sentence. The poster is obviously an intellectual person who is
here since long. But this sentence is vague, and we are tempted to ask a few
things:
1. How much is that "IN PART" means?
2. Since nobody ever claimed that privilege, was it necessary to mention here how
highly he thinks of his role?
3. Is this modesty or hubris or pride?
4. What is the "PART" of other people, now that this time for dividing the credit
for the popularity of this website seems to have arrived?
I am not asking these questions to him. Because I think I can always ignore his
occasional self-congratulatory assertions. There are some people who surely wants
to write something , ask these questions here, because, afterall, they also have
the same right to ask the poster why he thinks so! When they write their
comment, we shouldn't go to those people, and say, "Shut up. If you don't like
my/his/her comment, you are free to ignore!"This is big time hypocrisy. If you are
free to write, they are also free to write.
And another thing, I think the poster is immensely intelligent person, and very
useful person for our nation. He has what you would say a youthful vigour to
do something for nation, and personally, I would like him to succeed in his missions.
But I hope he wouldn't exaggerate his contributions.
----------
To NUMA:
-----------
>Being somewhat of an anglophile, I trudge along highways that pose dangerous
>to my own identity, but I remember, I remember all that was and who I am when
>walk in here and see people equally if not more in love with the English language
>than I am. This gives me the balance or even the counter balance.
You are always welcome here, to exchange your ideas with us . We are not
only in love with language though. We are in love with our so called ideas, u know.
> I had to emerge from my lair and comment on him, just to pay my respects to
>the author that most of my teenage energy was consumed in, finding facts
>about him and sometimes thinking I am him.
I am glad this article pulled you out of your lair. I hope you will be 'him'! And thanks
so much for the part quote from Camus.
>The controversial subjects that he dealt with such alacrity, brevity and audacity
>leaves me speechless and wonder why I even try to write, yet the inspiration
>creeps in, in a sort of a nihilistic manner. The minimalsim is overwhelming!
We have no other way , but to read these writers, and be awed with them. But as
I know, there are a lot of readers of these writers, who try to outdo them, and
some even succeed in that pursuit. I hope you will be able to outdo Camus himself.
Who knows! We have an entire life to live, and the entire world to conquer.
>But to quote him again “ why waste words? More later”
Hope to read from you again in future;-)
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| NK |
Posted
on 19-Nov-01 09:23 AM
Numa,
I have been enjoying your poem in Suskera.com. I was surprised (pleasantly, i might add) to find out that Camus is your favourite writer. Let's shake hands. He comes foremost in my list of favourite authors. He helps me to understand this world better in the time much confusion. See you in Suskera. :)
Biswo,
Are you barking at the wrong tree ? ;) If you know what I mean.
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| sunakhari |
Posted
on 19-Nov-01 09:35 AM
HAH CAMUS!
And out comes everyone!!
Numa, have been reading your poems on Suskera as well.
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| NK |
Posted
on 19-Nov-01 10:20 AM
Sunakhari, did you read his 'the stranger?" that was an assigned book in my literature class and after that I was hooked on him. Gosh, that was such a long time ago. I have heard this Russian writer Babel, whose short collection of stories (his daughter just published it) is also of same sor of genre and,inddeed, it is a great collection.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 19-Nov-01 01:36 PM
>Are you barking at the wrong tree ? ;) If you know what I mean
Dear NK:
No insinuations intended. Only a general, but not vague, statement applicable to
all.
Cheers.(Why?)
Biswo
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| NK |
Posted
on 19-Nov-01 01:46 PM
Dear wise biswo,
what a relief! you did not think i was calling you a k-9. it seems you know the difference between a metaphor and taking it literally.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 19-Nov-01 03:08 PM
Dear NK:
Well, the reflection of K-9, bovine, feline, elephantine is natural here. We belong
to same world.No wonder,some people take it literally and suffer from headache,
while others take it figuratively, and take it easy.
Freedom, my friend, is what is our motto here.Down with suppression!
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| NK |
Posted
on 19-Nov-01 03:43 PM
You do have a funny bone in you! Welcome to the club.
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| ashu |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 04:02 AM
Hi Biswo,
We can all use hubris once in a while.
Hubris for hubris's sake, however, is NOT likable.
I mean, if hubris is the ONLY THING you have, then that's too bad.
But hubris as A PART of one's spectrum of human emotions IS good, and even
needed if one sets out to achieve big, hairy audacious goals (BHAGs) in one's life. Achieving BHAGs require a RANGE of emotional skills -- from humility to courage to persistence to diplomacy to sociability to self-confidence to, well, even, hubris.
If the director of the movie Titanic, for instance, did not have the hubris to
make that movie (even with serious budgetary and logistical problems), that
movie would not been made, let alone go on to gross one billion dollars. If Bill Gates did not have the kind of hubris he had, I doubt whether Microsoft would be what it is today: a powerhouse. If Prithivi Narayan Shah had not been hubristic enough to want to conquer all other kings, I doubt whether we would be here
as Nepalis today.
To achieve stuff of lasting PUBLIC value in any society, it seems, you need people with enormous ego and belief in themselves to pull things off even when they don't know all the answers. The challenge, of course, is to channel that enormous ego, that belief in oneself and that self-confidence bordering on hubris to "GOOD" things so that we don't get charismatic evil-doers such as Hitler or even BRB. This is what we should all look out for.
One of the paradoxes I encountered in Boston was that many of the American friends I met there -- in and out of classrooms -- had self-confidence bordering on hubris. My Nepali upbringing would initially rail against their arrogance, their hubris, their whatever, but I learnt to see how their self-confidence, their belief
in themselves, even their arrogance FUELLED their achievments. Once I saw that, I had a new appreciation for self-confidence bordering on hubris. [Of course,
once you for to know them better, they also turned out to be the most honest, most straightforward people I have ever met!]
And they said that they loved physics, and some of them have gone to be be among the best in the world. They said that they wanted to be mathematicians, and they used their self-confidence bordering on hubris, again, to be the best in their field. Ditto for those who have gone to pursue careers in the arts or managment consulting or scientific research or whatever.
In Nepal, I am beginning to think that maybe we put too much emphasis on
modesty and GET NOWHERE together. Like BP said, I am thrilled that so many Nepalis have gone to attend finest universities on the planet. I am thrilled that writers like Samrat, Manjushree have achieved success. I am proud of my achievments and I am also proud of other Nepalis' achievments. I'd be happy to toot their horns anytime. What's there to be ashamed of?
In fact, when you think about it: The entire application process at most selective American universities and grad schools is designed to make you toot your own
horn, make you be self-confidence bordering on hubris . . . and sadly, smart Nepalis who cannot "sell" themselves honestly and confidently to the admissions
commitee deny themselves going to colleges/grad schools of their choices.
So, to answer your concern: An occasional hubris is good and fine. And as long as hubris is only ONE among the range of emotional color you have, that's fine.
oohi
ashu
ktmm.nepal
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| _BP |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 04:16 AM
Indeed you have to be able to sell yourself, as well as your friends. Because no matter how smart you think you are, there is always someone better than you. But that doesn't mean you are not right for the situation. After all success is achievement that attains recognition. I don't mean you should flaunt it all the time, but you can sneak in your qualifications every now and then. Selling yourself with humility is an art in itself. Thus one of my all time favourite quotes, "You are better than noone, but none is better than you!"
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| ashu |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 04:22 AM
I agree, BP.
I agree.
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| _BP |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 04:34 AM
By the way, Albert Camus...don't have a clue who he is. Wow, you guys are into some heavy reading. Every now and then I pop into a discussion and feel like a WWF wrestler in an Oprah book club.
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| NK |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 09:42 AM
Dear _BP,
You are too busy reading books from Fox Network commentator and declaring yourself Rebpublican Sympathizer/voter (if you could, am I right?). Please get out out of your four walls and smell the coffee, as they say.
1st lesson for today for my dear _BP: Read Sylvia Plath
2nd for tomorrow: Emily Dickenson
3rd jump (now, this a big leap, you might say a leap of faith) to Extentialism
4th jump to Postmodernism
5th Come to our Geeta. There is a remarkable similarity between what Geeta says and what postmodernists say. both opaque yet crystal clear! Make sense, sometimes it does not, I agree. Truth as I am discovering comes in a different facets. Just take all those and make a big sense outta it.
Lesson ende fuer huete.
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| _BP |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 10:08 AM
Hmmm, I think I should jump straight to the Gita, after watching Bill on the telly.
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| NK |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 10:31 AM
Go for it, my Lad!
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| Sangey |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 10:50 AM
... like the other day, like i was watching like Jerry Springers, and I like learned like...
Doh! I better stop before I get hit by some heavy books from Hahvahd Law Library
Somebody once said, "People who don't read good books have no advantage over those who can't read them." I wonder if s/he was referring to me.
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| NK |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 11:11 AM
Oh! I forgot to add one more book on my must read for _BP:
3. Heartbreaking work of a Staggering Genius. (if you want I can even lend it to you, saves you some money)
Dear Sangey:
Don't worry, I won't throw that heavy book at you. I have self-restrain which I excercise time to time. Also, allow me to make something clear. I feel and I know I have yet to read so many books. And I feel so inadequate before quite a few companies. My defense is: I think (meditate) a lot. So if you are not watching that guy wattchamacallit on telly meditate. Here I am not saying chant Om with your eyes closed, but reflect.
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| _BP |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 03:48 PM
Is that a real book? Or are you being cynical? I really can't tell. I must admit though, I spend way too much time watching TV compared to recreational reading. Mostly ESPN at that. However, I do also spend a lot of time doing mandatory reading, which sort of drains my desire to read in my spare time. Just wondering out loud...
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| ashu |
Posted
on 21-Nov-01 06:59 AM
NK declared:
"Truth as I am discovering comes in a different facets."
With NK's FINALLY reaching that conclusion in public, my life is now
complete!!
Sure, when all kinds of people are allowed to speak freely, then the truth itself
is disputed and even distorted. Still, when that happens, reasonable people must keep on arguing together, debating together, discussing together so that they can REASON together together to find the truth.
BP, for some of the hippest, cool writings on the net, check out the site maintained
by the author if that ACTUAL book "heartbreaking work of staggering genius"
http://www.mcsweeneys.net/
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| GP |
Posted
on 21-Nov-01 09:37 AM
BP wrote:
Indeed you have to be able to sell yourself, as well as your friends.
--
When I hear the interviews with great peoples from celebrities
to nobel prize winners, what we need is we need to advertise
our selves to the limit what we really are.
But, I don't think we should try to "sell" our friends. We just help
them, push up to make them able so that they can sell
themselves in the market. We can not directly sell our friends
in market, that is against professionalism and it will have biased
result.
Its my understanding, and hopefully I am not runnig my profanity.
GP
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| NK |
Posted
on 21-Nov-01 10:44 AM
Hey Ashu: give it a rest, will you? for your kind information "Namita Kiran Hypen Thuene" does not give a whole lot of gold for what you pretend to think. Hey, why don't you quote something from my pvt. email here like you seem to do all the time to satisfy your child like confused behavior? you start to annoy me like a little mosquito who just buzzes around unwanted. Swat!!! Shoot! i missed it.
_BP: Sorry about minor bothersome behaviour from your jigri dost....
I was afraid of that. Even when I am serious people will not take it serioiusly because of my tendency to be amused at childish behaviour among others and write about it. Cynically, sarcastically, whatever.
But, I would say if you are missing out on literature front with your heavy duty mandatory readings, then this book might go over your head. Please, I am not saying this disparagingly. Like I said this is a postmodernist saga. If you were missing out what is happening in the culture (literature, arts, pop. culture etc.) then this book won't make a sensel, problably. Then again, you might enjoy it, just taking it as it is, not bothering about the evolution of literature.....
Few of my friends returned it - unread -they said could not pass the 20 pages 'Acknowledgement' (!). So, there is a sketch of a stapler, diagram of his house, dialogoue veers everywhere - past, future, hapening, not happening, imagination etc. It is fleeting. It is based on true story. Another thing: I am not interested reading in Autobiography. But I enjoyed this tremondously, maybe it was mixed with fiction.
Did I convince you to go buy and read it? Keep me posted.
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| _BP |
Posted
on 21-Nov-01 06:52 PM
Thanks NK. I don't know if I will be able to handle it, but I will take it under advisement. I don't even know exactly what you mean by "post-modernism." In any case, it is nice to know that we have people here who can appreciate such literary works. I don't think I do.
I am into professional and college sports however, which probably explains why I am interested in my line of work.
And Ashu, thanks for the web link. You know what avid readers we were in the good old days? Well, I can't even remember the last time I read a "sahityik" book since my college philosophy "gut" class. I remember having a collection of all these books, which I believe we shared. And the best spelling team not to win the gold...so many memories.
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| ashu |
Posted
on 22-Nov-01 12:43 AM
Hi BP,
I still have those books . . . Looking back, I can't believe that we ended up improving our English in our youth ALSO by reading trash novelist such as Sidney Sheldon, Harold Robbins, James Hadley Chase . .. and so many others . . .
By the way, BP, as a man of science, do NOT believe this garbage called postmodernism, which is trendy and sexy and French-dominated, but
says LITTLE of importance.
But don't take my word for this, click on:
http://www.linguafranca.com/9607/tsh.html
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| _BP |
Posted
on 22-Nov-01 03:05 AM
Why Ashu...I thought those were great works of literature ;-) ! But I do think I read Clavell and Uris at some point...I don't know now, are they trashy too :) ? Now I am reading Bill O'Reilly. He is a big time conservative, and a newscaster, in case you don't know him. I know our community is in general liberal, but perhaps through the influence of my college friends, I have a lot of conservative views myself. My feeling is that people (and countries for that matter) gravitate naturally towards conservatism when they are secure in their existence. People become more conservative when they get married, settled down and have kids etc, and the same is true for a nation that has become self-sufficient and wants some "space" so to speak. What do you think? I mean all of you out there.
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