| Username |
Post |
| Siwalik |
Posted
on 19-Nov-01 01:01 PM
Lamenting about Nepal's cronic underdevelopment is nothing new. People usually blame corruption, nepotism, illeteracy, backwardness, and what not as the cause. Can there be alternate explanation? For instance, I would like to argue that Nepalese do not trust each other, neiher do they respect each other's opinions, especially if they are dissenting ones. If one becomes successful, ohers will be busy pulling his/her leg rather than lauding his/her effort. If our energy and attitude is geared toward tearing each other apart, a general tendency, then where is the social glue that gives us the strength to build our nation/state? Isn't personal cynicism, envy and mistrust the main culprit in our inability to form forces of collective endeavor that can attain success and positive results?
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| sunakhari |
Posted
on 19-Nov-01 01:10 PM
Siwalik - you are 100% correct but how does a society get out of it?
It seems our social stigmas - race, color and creed outdoes everything. Our most learned people live by another country's standard pertaining to its society but once they go back home somehow everything else they have seen and learnt abroad disappears, and I see nobody other than our society to blame for it.
Somehow along evolution's way, we seem to have stopped somewhere! People resort to the utmost inhumane behavior and I have yet to figure out why!
Though, cynicism, envy and mistrust are rather a human's nature, our society seems to thrive on these!
The ones on top of the ladder seem to enjoy the exclusive rights to the position and hate to see another one climbing up. Which goes on to prove that the ones on top are insecure. Insecurity in a person breeds nasty things - can you imagine what it does to a society. The answer is in your posting!
Hope my ranting made a little sense.
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| joie de vivre |
Posted
on 19-Nov-01 01:48 PM
Siwalki, are you a mind reader? I was about to post a new thread on more or less the same topic!
But getting back to the topic at hand, I’ve often wondered why we Nepalis are so eager to ‘ek-arkako khutta tana-tan garnu”. I somewhat agree with Sunakhari that our society’s to blame. But at the same time I think we tend to forget we ARE the society! Is this tendency to pull others back so ingrained in us that we can’t be happy at someone else’s good fortune?
Several years ago, I purchased a water color by Bhakta Pariyar, a Nepali artist from Kalimpong. The painting is simply titled “Hami Nepali”. It depicts an apple tree laden with fruit and though there are more than enough apples for everyone, the Nepali folks who’re picking the fruit are preoccupied with dragging down those who’re at the top of the tree or stealing from the baskets of others. As sad as it is, I thought this painting portrays our society as it really is.
However, it’s encouraging to know and see that we are becoming more aware of this trait in all of us. The next step now is to rise above these petty jealousies and mould our society into something we can be proud of.
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| ashu |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 01:18 AM
I, as a concerned Nepali, am quite afraid and feel inadequate to CHANGE
Nepali society, whatever that means.
Quite honestly, I think the most effective means one can adopt is: Change
oneself for the better, step by step, and hope/encourage/show/inspire others
too do the same.
With constant incremental efforts and some luck, pretty soon, and with everyone changing themselves for the better, collectively we will have changed Nepali societies for the better. Again, I believe in the power of self-organzing, self-policing OPEN societies with individuals who give a damn.
So, the solution lies NOT with societies OUT THERE, not too with OTHER PEOPLE
OUT THERE, but with each one of us.
Then again, the basics of individualism (i..e. taking responsibility for one's own actions and thoughts) seem counter-intuitive to most of us Nepalis.
Hence, our persistent desire to change NOT ourselves first but things OUT
THERE. Please feel free to disagree.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
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| _BP |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 03:48 AM
This is interesting. Those in a position to better themselves and make examples of themselves seek to change others more, whereas the working class in Nepal who need to raise each others' awareness are more likely to simply try to better themselves. Just an observation.
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| sunakhari |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 08:47 AM
I would have to somewhat differ with Ashu on the fact that he pointed out that its not the fault of the society but oneself.
Not personally speaking but more generally WHILE pointing at your example Ashu, I would say you seem to be an above-average thinking Nepali. You seem to have ideas and goals which may not be consistent in most of our nepali people therefore, I would deduce that your ideologies about your personal life would vary greatly from most janta. BUT would you be able to act on your impulses or rather your acquired taste of life? My answer would be NO. If you probably did and acted like you would like to MOST of the time, you would be highly unpopular among your peers there. You would most certainly harbour feelings about certain issues but you would act according to what our society requires of you. For the very same reason, I , who loves to wear short skirts and tight jeans (when in vogue) would never dare to wear that garb when I'm home. WHY? Because of certain social barriers.
Although I do agree when you say that changing oneself is first and foremost my big question is = HOW DO I WEAR MY TIGHT JEANS while adhering to the forces of my society and NOT BE DEEMED A LOOSE CHARACTER?
Please don't take my examples LITERALLY, these are just analogies.
Lets hear more.
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| joie de vivre |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 10:12 AM
I couldn’t agree more with Ashu. Like I pointed out in my earlier posting, we tend to forget that WE ARE the society. Its not enough to sit back and blame everything on our society, it’s up to us to change it. Granted it’ll take some time and (perhaps) an enormous concerted effort on our parts, but we’ve got to start somehow, sometime, why not now and why not with the self-organizing, self-policing strategy Ashu talks about? As cliché as it often times sounds, I’m a big advocate of self-actualization and self-esteem, and right or wrong, I think the key lies in knowing who you are, improving your flaws, and accepting who you. Again, I agree with Ashu when he says Nepalis tend to think we don’t have accountability for anything that goes on in our society. The general attitude seems to be ‘to hell with the consequences for the rest of our people as long as I get what I want’.
Sunakhari, I know exactly what you mean, I’ve been there myself. I’ve found the best way to deal with it is to have that give-a-damn attitude and just do as you please as long as it doesn’t negatively impact someone else. Of course, it takes someone pretty thick-skinned and somewhat egoistic (me!! me!!) to shrug off the snide remarks and insults. But then maybe I’m different – I’ve got the couldn’t give-a-rats-@#$% attitude down to a fine art :)
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| Gokul |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 10:28 AM
Hi all,
This is an interesting and important topic in that it gives us the opportunity to analyze our strengths and weaknesses, our vagaries and determination. As Ashu has succinctly pointed, we Nepalis are hypocrat in the sense that we show false modesty while craving for unceasing praise, we praise others not because we understand and appreciate their works but because we know quite insidiously, (Ashu, Strategically?) that praising them may pay off later on if not immediately. We call ourselves a spiritual, other-worldly society but we always think in terms of pay-offs. Poor Game Theorists!, Come to Nepal and we will show you how to calculate pay-offs: spiritually, politically, and intellectually.
We are also weakedly strategic in not partaking the "NEGATIVE PAY OFFS". If the society is what it is today, we have unshakeable belief that it is because of other people and exogenous factors. If everything is in place, then we will not disturb the harmony and leave everything in the exact same place. so what's the problem? we are NOT doing what we are NOT supposed to be doing!
Ashu says we need continuous, incremental improvement. I think you read
Juran while the society likes Puran and believes some Hanuman will come who will solve all of our problems. And what you mean by incremental improvement? We are brave Gorkhalis. We either do things lumpsum or we don't do at all. Remember - Once our King ran some miles and he got the kingdom. Recently, our king arranged a dinner and he lost the king-dom. One Indian actor supposedly uttered a couple of
words, and we burned a couple of halls - killing of 3/4 people came just as an added bonus. So you see? We are heavyweights.
We have Everest but we reach its top only as porters - not as mountaineers.
We have Buddha but we visit Lumbini only as tourists - not as Buddhists.
We have patience but we use it not to do something but to NOT do something.
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| arnico |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 11:43 AM
Interesting topic, and interesting to watch the discussion meandering. I agree with a lot that has been written... just want to add a couple of thoughts:
1) Each person has to change his or her own attitude and behavior... that is clear. But if enough people change themselves in the same way, in a coordinated way, then that might have a larger impact, because it might filter out from that group to the rest of society... If all GBNC members were to converge on Kathmandu at the same time, walking around wearing similar clothes...telling all our cousins that this is cool etc.... hey we might change what it is in fashion :)
Of course, Sunakhari, I meant more than just the literal example, too.
2) To get back to Siwalik's initial questions: Sometimes I wonder whether Nepal has not suffered enough in history to get the people to work together... whether what is missing in our motivation to work hard, and to work together, is the history or memory of sudden shared misfortune, no major war, no colonial powers who oppressed us... look at how World War II brought the UK together behind Churchill. Or even how US air travellers have become friendlier and more patient since September 11. Often immigrant communities who lost everything and had to start from scratch become very successful. There are many examples in the US. I think the Tibetan community in Nepal might be such an example too.
Compared to many places, we have had it quite good. Fertile soil, pleasant climate, almost enough to eat, a large majority of the population owning their homes, no major ethnic or religious conflicts... whatever seems to be going downhill now is probably going too slowly to alarm people to the point of rallying together. Even the Maoist conflicts have been building up slowly enough that people are not shocked about it.
So what would change things: definitely any armed incursion from south of the border would unite the country overnight. Anything else? A devastating earthquake (one that destroys rich people's pakki houses as well) ???
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| dariwal |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 01:12 PM
This is a very interesting topic. The main thing missing from the nepalese society and people's mind is the accounting for the past, analyzing it and working for a better alternative. For example, look how the internal rivalry between the politicians led to "17 gate" by mahendra and panchayat was born. Now, i see the nepali democracy in the same phase where mahendra's "mahilo" one dosen't look like he's gonna give a second thought of sliting the democracy if he thinks of the time to do so. But,the so called ruler gang seems to be thinking as "sati le sarape ko desh" and not giving a damn about any interest on the peoples.
My point is education(and of course, doing PHD or MS from anywhere dosen't fullfill this definition of being educated, unless you have the sense of society and community development) is necessary. it's more "CHETANA" about analyzing what's cooking in the kitchen and try to go for the best action.And that's not gonna happen just by saying "well nepali society is ufff......". It's nepalese who can turn that to " wow, what a society". Of course it takes time, but it's the people who can do it and need to do it. After all, they are the society, aren't they?
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| joie de vivre |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 02:07 PM
Dariwal: Precisely. Too many of those of us who’re fortunate enough to be inducted into another society and therefore know what our society lacks, are too willing to turn our backs to our own society.
Siwalik: I’ve noticed you often throw out these topics for discussion and while we appreciate it, we seldom get to hear your take on it. What do you say?
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| Siwalik |
Posted
on 20-Nov-01 02:48 PM
Joie de vivre: I do have contraint of time to give my own imput in the topics I start. But I do try to do so. Please read my take on "foreign aid" topic. Regarding the discussion we had on sponsoring kids, I have not given my feedback, but it would have been development of this concept: If each person tries to find information on how to sponsor a child and the mechanism to do it, the cost of such venture in total will be great. That is why we have organizations and institutions--the point being to reduce the transaction cost of information and implementation. So when you said that you would not trust any organization (SEBS scholarships in your case), I was going to point out the purpose behind such institutions. In the long run they are supposed to be cost effective.
In this topic itself, I find Ashu's advocating "everyone changing themselves" too philosophhcal and impractical. Like Arnico said, such changes need to have a philosophy, actions and coordination to make it a social movement. Gokul rightly points out that praise, if it comes, has an ulterior motive of positive payback later on. Concerns of accountability have been raised too, and rightly so. Seems like nobody stands for anything and readily changes the tune according to who is in power. Remember the saying, "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything." That is what is going on in Nepal. The cynicism, disdrust, and evny that is prevalent is a social extension of such "spineless" stand.
What do we need? Of course, we need educated people, not Ph.Ds necessarily as dariwal pointed out. We need a group of individuals who are oriented toward social upliftment of Nepal, but they have to be not just foreign educated, but also soaked in Nepalese rural atmosphere. Once we have such a group, we need to develop a strategy regarding media savvniness, organization skills, and visionary leadership that can enthuse the society from ground up, and start beating the tides of cynicism, backbiting, and self-defeating attitude as "sati le sarapeko desh."
We need the spirit of martyrs to sacrifice, devotion of "El Labya" to persist on our goals, heart to forgive human frailties, and energy of hanuman to lift a "parbat." This is not about to happen with inidvidual leadership if there is no collective vision and endeavor of an organized, disciplined and "can do" spirit organization to forward advocacy and develop an activist network. No one is going to come and develop Nepal, not the IMF, WB, USA or GOD. The seeds of development and change reside in us--individually and collectively. We need a strategy, such as placing bundles of dynamites at different key holes to blow up a whole mountain of obstruction, to be able to achieve anything. Strength for such an effort is not in indivuduals, but in bonding of like-minded individuals who can sacrifice, dream and implement, and be the candles that repel the darkness...
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