| Username |
Post |
| Biswo |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 11:05 AM
Kunda Dixit thinks Nepal's army can't possibly fight with Maoists, and Indian army
will probably called.
Excuse me, Mr Dixit. RNA just started to move , and you already thought it can't
fight with Maoists. Rather than encouraging Nepal's army, what the hell are you
talking about?
Down with traitors.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=154933941
-----------------------------------
|
| NK |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 11:08 AM
Biswo,
I think he is just giving the scenario (worst case?), what could happen. I don't think he is advocating to call Indian Army. Or, is he?
|
| sk |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 11:30 AM
Dixit was only expressing his views that the Nepali Army may be over extended and 'may' seek help of the Indian army. He certainly was not advocating that the Indian Army should be invited to help the Nepali Army. So go easy on this 'traitor business'.
SK
|
| Nepali |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 11:39 AM
Who the hell wants Indian Army in our Territory..... thats pathetic that dhoti's will have to come to fight with out people in our own land. Whatever the situation is,dhoti's in no way should be allowed to enter Nepal. If nepalese people wants to fight amongst themselves and die then we will-But not by the hands of Dhoti's.
Nepali
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 11:43 AM
I think to say that RNA is incapable of taking charge when it just started working
is to equal to discourage RNA. It is just like telling a novice writer 'you can't write
a good piece, and you have to take help from me'.
Kunda may or may not be traitor. But traitors don't come with billboard in their
heads. Why the hell he needed to tell RNA is weak etc etc?
Kunda says "The Nepali Army may not be equipped to fight the Maoist", but most
of us know that RNA is capable of fighting. And who is thinking about inviting
Indian Army? I would rather live in Prachanda's rule, fyi, rather than being rescued
by Indians.
|
| Sungava |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 11:52 AM
Kunda Dixit is a known writer/critic of Nepal and under current law he can express his freedom of speech under Nepali Constitution. So he is just expressing his highly "personal" view on the subject matter. I do not think that he represents the general norm and thinking of the Nepalese people nor we have to abide by his statement. Well.... but during this very tense situation in Nepal he was better off expressing his confidence in our RNA rather than giving out controversial statement. This can ultimately harm his carrier as a writer. Who wants an unpatriotic writer who tends to believe on foreign powers rather than his own nation's during the situation like this?? Comments suggestion welcome..
new to GBNC
Sungava
|
| Times of India |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 01:13 PM
Will the Indian army be called?
SIDDHARTH SRIVASTAVA
TIMES NEWS NETWORK
EW DELHI: Can the volatile situation in Nepal result in the Nepali government seeking the help of the Indian Army?
"The Army in Nepal is in for a very tough time and the possibility of the Nepal government seeking the help of the Indian Army cannot be ruled out," says Kunda Dixit, chief editor of Nepali Times, in an interview with Times News Network. "The Nepali Army may not be equipped to fight the Maoist," he adds.
Although, the Maoist insurgency in Nepal began in 1996 and has claimed 2,000 lives, this is the first time that the Army has been attacked by the Maoists.
The attacks this time have been all over Nepal and not the north-west stronghold, which is a sign that the Maoists resurgence is quite serious.
"Earlier most of the attacks were targeted against the police, the Army has never been the target of the Maoist," says Dixit.
It is a known fact that Comrade Prachanda, alias Pushpan Kamal Dahal, the shadowy chief of the Maoist likens himself to Tamil tiger Prabakaran. In a recent interview he said that ultimately the Maoist will have to fight the Indian Army that will eventually enter Nepal at the behest of the governement.
"However, it is not going to be an easy decision for the Nepali or the Indian government," says Kunda. "There is every likelihood that the Maoists might twist matters their way as there is a latent feeling of distrust against Indians," says Kunda.
Complicating matters further is the fact that the Nepali Army has traditionally looked at the King as their commander-in-chief. This would put King Gyanendra at the helm of affairs, a move that may not be appreciated by the Nepali people, who are still not convinced about the circumstances of King Birendra's murder.
Nepal's Maoist rebels blew up a newly built airport control tower and attacked an army camp on Sunday night as part of a new and ferocious anti-government offensive.
Nearly 270 people were killed in fresh clashes in the past couple of days between Maoists and security forces in Nepal, state-run radio said on Monday.
|
| NK |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 01:52 PM
Now after asking some gahakilo question I am back into the 'story.'
I am also angry with this kind of remark, of course. Given the history, this is a very sensitive issue for all Nepali. I think many nepali feel what biswo feels: i would rather have prachanda any given day if i have to invite indian army in my soil. To invite indian army is a rather foolish thing to do. then maybe we *will* have a real civil war. does kunda want it. does gyanedra want it?
|
| gaule |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 01:59 PM
Biswo Ji,
I totally agree with you. "I would rather live in Prachanda's rule, fyi, rather than being rescued".
Even taking about seeking the help from Indian army shows that it is a possibility whereas it should be considered completely impossible. If RNA can not fight with Maoist then Maosite will prevail and rule Nepal. Why the heck should Indian army come to interfere in domestic matter of Nepal.
This is the fighting of internal fractions of Nepal and whoever wins should prevail. The current government should not invite Indian army even in the situation when RNA will be unable to handle the situation. In that case they should give up to Maoist insted.
However, I strongly believe that the RNA is completely capable to handle the current situation.
Gaule
|
| Dawg |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 02:06 PM
I doubt if Mr. Kunda Dixit really said those words. The Indian media has been known to propogate their own views specially in regards to Nepal's sovereignity. You could feel the same in the peice done about Prachanda. The Indian dawgs have always eyed Nepal, always awaiting to get to us. This is from the "Grand Design" of the India.
So I suggest we not fall into the trap and wait for Kunda Dixit to clarify. Even if it true, isn't it a little akward that Prachanda talked about the Indian Army and the same issue is raised here.
Personally, if the Indian Army is deployed, I am with the Maoist.
|
| NK |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 02:09 PM
This is exactly what I mean. A civil war. Some siding Indian Army in the name of stopping the insurgency and some siding Maoist in the name of matribhumi. Geez louise. Give these people a little bit sense and ask them not to call Indian Army!!!!
|
| concerned |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 02:54 PM
"The Nepali Army MAY not be equipped to fight the Maoist," he adds.
He is using the word MAY and not IS. I don't think he is advocating for the use of Indian army. Let's not criticize him for what he did not say.
It definitely is true that we should not call the Indian army for help. It's irony that we have been fighting for Briaih and others, but when it comes to our own safety, we are not confident of our people.
|
| GP |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 07:29 PM
EW DELHI: Can the volatile situation in Nepal result in the Nepali government seeking the help of the Indian Army?
"The Army in Nepal is in for a very tough time and the possibility of the Nepal government seeking the help of the Indian Army cannot be ruled out," says Kunda Dixit, chief editor of Nepali Times, in an interview with Times News Network. "The Nepali Army may not be equipped to fight the Maoist," he adds.
----
Sungava, Kunda Dixit is not speaking as person but, as a representative
of NepaliTimes reader. Read those lines again. Meanwhile, he can not
make propaganda, and this is called antinationalistic activity at the time
of crucial condition that country is passing. He deserves Bhadkaune
Kaam ma lage ko Arop. He is devaulating himself.
All readers send him the objection letter to his email
editors@nepalitimes.com
I always adimired him, but, he has proved himself an idiot if he
had really advocated the need of Indian Army in Nepal.
Down with NepaliTimes and an Indian Agent "Kunda Dixit".
He should immmediately regret for what he said, or he deserves
humiliation and flow of emails in his mail box, even more than
he can read in his whole life time. Hey, guys start sending objections
on his statements.
GP
|
| GP |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 07:45 PM
Letter sent to Mr. K. Dixit:
Mr. K. Dixit,
I got chance to read your funny comments
and that is really disgusting to read it.
How ill fated you are and how negligent and
quick you come to conclusion is really
disgusting to your readers like me. Instead
of giving your thought in pessimistic way,
you would have tried to wait for some time
before making conclusion as editor in chief
of NepaliTimes. You have proved yourself
an Idiot, and a man with low vision. Because
just one Army camp was over run when most
of the army were away does not mean you come
to such conclusion, how did you come to such
conclusion, just with One data? Did not you
see next day, there were huge casuality from
Maoist side while negligible on Army side.
You should correct yourself, don't pose your
self so great to invite Indian Army in Nepal
and do you know the consequences of inviting
Indian Army: there will be more rapes, loot and
killing than by MAoists and RNA.. I would have
rather enjoyed if you have said we might request
British Gurkha Army for help, where the fighters
are all of Nepali origin.
Great peoples emerge in crisis, and you have
lost credibility of being great.
Thanks for reading it.
GP
PS: Say no to Nepali Vandalism and Intellectual Prostitution.
|
| SK |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 07:45 PM
GP,
Get a hold of yourself, this kind of over reaction is not really called for. Kunda, only says that the nepali army 'may' not able to mange on its own. He is certainly not advocating that the Nepali army should invite the Indian army or even saying that it is correct, or wrong. He is merely stating that the Nepali army is not adequately equipped to handle the Maoist (as the events of the 23-25 has indicated) and that the Nepali government may seek help from the Indian army. Now you can disagree with this. But to go an a tangent, and accuse him of things he has not said or implied is streaching it too far.
We must be able to have discussions without resorting name calling and branding. It only degrads this forum.
My two bits.
SK
|
| Cool |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 08:07 PM
Dear GP,
I agree with SK.
"Indian agent, nepali vandalism and intellectual prostitution. idiot" etc. What's wrong with you? Cool down and have a discussion in a mature manner without reverting to mud slinging. Your point will be better accepted if you are more composed.
Cool
|
| Rajib Sharma |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 08:11 PM
Biswo jee
Some of Nepali Patrakars are disgraceful and distorted by their nature even they are ready to sell their Chelee Beti for publishing their name on foreign media. Mr Kundan Dixit is among of them.They are practing yellow journalim.
Rajib Sharma
|
| Dawg |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 08:26 PM
Kunda clearly implies for a possible call for Indian Army! That is not acceptable to any of us. So he is a disgrace!!! No Question About It!!
|
| concerned |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 08:54 PM
how can you be so certain that he is implying for the use of army. come on,
you don't have to criticize someone you was just saying the "obvious" just to show you are patriotic.Times of India might not have included many other pertinent things he said.
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 09:21 PM
SKji:
>We must be able to have discussions without resorting name calling and
>branding.It only degrads this forum.
I agree with you. But what is name calling? Intellectual prostitution is not name
calling. It is referral to attitude. 'Down with traitors' was not name calling. I was
wishing bad luck for all traitors.
History tells us how respected figures like Rishikesh Shaha, Tulsi Giri etc also went
on to conspire against popular wishes. Traitors are not the one who are so
obvious.
Here is another statement from concerned ji that I want to address to.
>Times of India might not have included many other pertinent things he said.
Yes, sure. But how do we know? As long as we don't know, as long as he doesn't
refute his words, he needs to be questioned.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The first reaction in this moment for a patriotic person should be to support the
RNA, not to raise spectre of their defeat, and float such feeler to demoralize
people and army.
My criticism to Kunda was a natural reaction to what was very vile comment from
a person who considers himself a serious journalist. Just by writing some words, or
just by talking to some foreign journalist, one can't be a responsible journalist.
When The Times Of India was writing the report on Indian intervention, it was
looking for the Nepali person who would spew such utterance. Kunda went to
oblige them. There is a history of Indian RAW agents working as journalists in
Nepal, and for rest of us Nepali, there is every reason to suspect Kunda's motive
when he gives such interview.
I don't want to give this person more value than he deserves by discussing in
more detail about him. Fortunately, Nepalese people are strong enough to wither
the betrayal and avarice of a lot of so called Nepali aristocrats.
|
| SK |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 09:34 PM
Biswo,
So now he is a RAW agent. How about a closet Moaist or even a Moaist leader? Maybe he is Prachanda himself. Really!
SK
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 09:37 PM
SKji:
Did I say he is RAW agent?
|
| khai kohokoho |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 09:55 PM
...hey .who is kunda dixit..?
|
| Sk |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 09:57 PM
Biswoji,
Exactly my point. You did not say that but you did make mention of 'raw agent' in your posting and it can be twisted.
Just like the TOI article. Dixit is reported to have said that the 'Nepalese Govt.' may seek the help of India. He was not recommending it, he was not supporting it, he was not suggesting that it was the right thing, etc. He was quoted as merely saying that the 'govt. may do so'. That's it. Where has he said that his supports it?
Ok. That's that. Let's keep our wits about ourselves and see how this unfolds.
Let's remember that it is the TOI quoting some Nepali editor. Who is to say that it is 'exactly' what Dixit said? TOI many times misquotes Nepalese to suit their editorial angle.
SK
|
| GP |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 10:07 PM
Whether you agree or not thats not my problem, but
yours. The statement said by Mr. Dixit comes on the
very first paragraph, how can you dismiss what he says.
His statements were used to make propaganda in the
favour of India, as times come. Whether the publishers
publishes only the sorted out statements or full thats
problem of mr. Dixit and Times of India, not ours. We
have to read what it appears in the media, and its
Dixit who should clarify what he meant if he thinks
his statmetns were distorted, and its not we to
take that straight words in indirect words. That will
be mistake. Its what I expect from Mr. Dixit, if the
TOA had twisted what he meant, he should come up
with clarifications or corrections, and until corrections
appears, we take what appeared in TOA. No way
to excuse Mr. Dixit. Mr. Dixit if sticks to what he
said based a very limited data, like in Birendra's death
(see Biswo ji's postings) then, it is his great mistake.
He will be damned as time comes. He is another
journalists who runs rumors and fake extrapolated
stories based on a very limited data.
GP
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 10:08 PM
SKji, when I said " There is a history of Indian RAW agents working as journalists
in Nepal", I meant Indian journalists working in Nepal, not Nepali journalists working
in Nepal. I knew a girl named Damayanti, who spoke Chinese and was from New
Delhi and now works for RAW who studied Chinese in Shanghai, who told me that.
There are a lot of other reports in Indian papers that corroborate my facts.TOI
agents in Nepal can very well be RAW agents. They have met Prachanda, and
they know where there 'men' are!
I agree we can wait and see. I haven't accused Kunda of being Indian agent. But I
totally disagree with his insinuation about RNA's capability.Is it good for a journalist
to say, in the first day of RNA's mobilization, that RNA may not be able to solve the
problem and Indian help will probably be sought? Imagine how would you feel when
somebody comes to see your newborn child and says, "probably this boy will die of
penumonia in future and you will have to call pallo ghar ko pandit baje for helping
in final rituals." Will we appreciate such remarks in such occasion?
|
| SK |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 10:19 PM
GPji,
By the same yard stick, whether you do not believe it or not is your problem not mine. But this is neither here or there.
Your reasoning does not make sense to me. (You may say that then it is my problem, so be it.) May I suggest you re-read your postings. I have, several times. (I have also re-read my postings.)
SK
|
| GP |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 10:25 PM
Kunda Dixit made conclusion based on first data :
You can see proof, why should not I believe that
RNA is well equipped to do their job. Example:
Army kills 40 Maoist terrorists in Dang-Rolpa border
KOL Report
KATHMANDU, Nov 27 - In the first ever aerial shooting, the Royal Nepal Army personnel killed at least 40 Maoist terrorists on Sunday in the jungle near the border between Dang and Rolpa districts, our Nepalgunj based reporter said.
|
| SK |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 10:25 PM
Biswoji,
I have no disageement with your last post: ID: 33108421. It is your earlier posting I was questioning, especially the quite 'name calling'.
So let that be that.
Regards,
SK
|
| U2 |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 10:35 PM
I agree with Biswo's view too. Kunda, rather than asking for Indian army, could have spoken on how India should be helping Nepal, for instance, in curbing supports which Maoist get from the Indian side. Marhara, the maoist came straigt from India for that last talk. What the hell was he doing there, was he buying arms there? In things like that India can help us, and Kunda should have been asking for those things! Just my thought!
|
| Dawg |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 11:34 PM
Times of India report denied
Nepali Times editor, Kunda Dixit, has denied a report in the Times of India quoting him about the Royal Nepal Army's involvement in fighting the Maoist insurgency.
In a statement, Dixit said: "I never said anything about the Royal Nepal Army's capacity to fight the insurgency, or about the Indian Army. It is a time honoured tradition among New Delhi journalists to put
words in the mouth of Nepalis."
Dixit said he was called from New Delhi by the TOI reporter on Monday evening who asked for a "quote". He added that he had never said anything about Indian intervention in Nepal. "Why would I say anything
as absurd as that?" asked an angry Dixit. "It was in fact a question he asked, and not what I said. It just proves once more that the Indian press has its own agenda and just wants to twist facts."
|
| Kunda Dixit |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 11:52 PM
I am writing in response to the lively discussion in this forum about the
report published in the Times of India. A clarification and denial
about the quotes attributed to me has been posted in the Nepali Times
website www.nepalitimes.com. I thank you all for the interest you have
taken on this subject and the support and trust you have always shown
towards Nepali Times.
I am posting this on the advice of Ashutosh Tiwari. If you have any further
queries please direct them to editors@nepalitimes.com.
Times of India report denied
Nepali Times editor, Kunda Dixit, has denied a report in the Times of India
quoting him about a possible Indian Army role in tackling the Maoist insurgency
in Nepal.
"The quote is malicious, and continues with the time-honoured tradition among some
New Delhi journalists to put words in the mouth of Nepali journalists," says Dixit.
"This is a sensitive time in Nepali politics, and we can do without Indian media
trying to fish in these troubled waters, especially by using the credibility of Nepali
journalists to their own ends."
Kunda Dixit
editors@nepalitimes.com
GPO Box 7251 Kathmandu Nepal
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 26-Nov-01 11:54 PM
Well, now he is talking sense.
We need such concrete evidence. It also shows that our criticism wasn't unfounded
and giving such kind of remarks was wrong.
But, as they say, in Nepal, there are a lot of politicians who say something, and
later, as they read the negative reactions in press, go on to say "I never said
that".
I don't know if TOI will bring the cassette to prove his statement.
---------
It also shows how Times Of India and its investment in Nepal will play a role in
future. I have always said that we shouldn't welcome this mouthpiece of south
block in Nepal in the name of foreign investment. This TOI is plainly a
representative of Indian Imperialist mindset. Outlook seems to be a lot better:-)
We need to identify who is our friend and who is our enemy. I had every reason
to believe, given the Dixit's support of TOI investment in Nepal, that the Dixit
was contacted first by TOI people, and he probably said something that sounded
like music to the ears of those wolves.
Thanks, however, for Mr Dixit for trying to correct himself. If he was really
misquoted (we still don't know how TOI will reply), then he need to be careful
next time before talking to the enemy of Nepalese sovereignty. I have been
reading reports in TOI since long, and I never found any good report about Nepal
there.
|
| Ramdai |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 12:58 AM
Biswo,
After being proven that you over-reacted with your original accusations against Kunda Dixit, you are now shitting just to save your foolish looking ass. Give me a freaking break!
a. You are speculating with no evidence to support your speculation that Dixit is either backtracking or lying vis-a-vis his denial of the TOI quote attributed to him. Do you have any evidence that Dixit tried to backtrack? No? Then shut the fu*k up! We are just fine without your smart ass "no-evidence" speculation. Unless you have hard evidence that his denial of the statement is "backtracking" from his original statement, don't put out your own genius speculation as hard fact, and then further use your genius speculation to justify your feeling that Dixit is "a traitor without a billboard on his head". Whatever!
b. You can disagree with his views (even if he did express them). But to use that viewpoint to brand him a traitor, an anti-national RAW Agent shows that your mind is narrower than your assh*le. Nothing else. If you want to disagree with him, fine, come up with arguments as to why he is wrong (which I believe he is). But to use that to brand him a Raw Agent, whatever other fancy words? Geez!
c. Your attempt to tie this whole thing to Nepali Times's support for foreign investment in the media sector is pathetic at best. Dude, how did you draw that connection? Or is it another of your super genius imagination/speculation? If you disagree with Nepali Times's position on foreign investment in the media sector, fine. There are a lot of people in Nepal who will agree with you. We can live with that. But to try to link that with the recent quotation of (and its subsequent denail by) Kunda Dixit in TOI only calls for a better excuse...
Gees....the length some people go to "defend" their obvious assinine remarks and humiliated egos! Your (unsubstantiated, uncalled-for, vaccuous) patronizing attitude to Dixit's clarification says more about your own intellectual emptiness than Dixit's betrayal of your (and my) country!
Ramdai
Disclaimer: I don't know Kunda Dixit. And I disagree with him most of the time.
|
| Trailokya Aryal |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 02:05 AM
Dear all,
I think Kunda Dixit is one of the brilliant journalists we have in Nepal. And as a regular reader of his newspaper, I get this sense that he knows what he is talking about. But, he too is a human being, and human beings make mistakes. He made a huge mistake when he published a biased article written by his broitehr(??) which had no valid points whatsoever, and as far as I know that artcile recieved the most letetrs in the history of Nepali Times. 11 letters, a whole page full of letters for and against that artcile, yet, Kunda didn't find it necessary to make the author of that article come up with clarification, and defend his points. This clearly shows that NepaliTimes does NOT really care for what its readers think. I am not a journalist, nor took any class on journalism while in school, but, this I know based on my readings that when a particular piece gets letetrs from readers asking the author to defend or further corroborate on his points, then the author has to do it. If one looks back at the TKP, then it ahs done that. It has made the authors answer readers who ask for clarification/explanation.
Another mistake: When the regicde happened, the Nepali Times without any proof or any fist-hand account went on to publish that it was indeed the Crown Prince who carried out the tragic event. The Nepali Times was the first newspaper to publish this report, and i still wonder where they got their facts from. They had this updated on their web-site 2-3 hrs past the tragedy. Once again, keeping up with the time honored tradition of the nepali media, Kunda ignored all his loyal readers requests to clarify on that piece.
yet another mistake: Kunda and his crew is for letting the Himalayan Times do business in Nepal, and I think its just going against nepali nationalism. Why should we let indians eneter in our media scene, when evben the indian government opposes foreign investment in media? People can smell incense, or fish (depending on what they feel like smelling) with the Nepali Times advocating for the Himalayan Times.
But still, the Nepali Times remains one of the best newspapers to come out from the valley. Alok's pieces are very good, and Kunda's Under My hat is the very essence of the paper.. It can be made even better if the editor is a little more attentive towards its readers requests and gets rid of anti-bahun-baad, anti-nepali-nationalist-sentiments and some overly biased articles every now and then.
Trailokya Aryal
|
| Akhilesh Upadhyay |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 02:51 AM
Kunda says he is a victim of malicious TOI propaganda. I will buy that.
I have known Kunda for a long time and have come to respect him for his integrity.
If I may, let me also take this opportunity to warn fellow posters, I have read stories in Indian press where sources WERE invented, and FALSELY attributed. More than once.
On a different note, journalists don't always reflect popular opinions, however. If it wasn't for American constitution's First Amendment protection of free speech, some journalists would get lynched, or sued for billions, etc, for voicing unpopular opinions. Often times, ideas that sound shocking later become "mainstream viewpoint."
Interestingly, while all of America is going ga-ga over President Bush and Rudy Giuliani--their approval ratings turning them into larger-than-life western icons--Village Voice in its latest edition questions their wisdom.
As of Sept. 10, Mayor Giuliani's political career was over - he was fighting a nasty court battlle with his estranged wife, and New York's minority communities--blacks and Hispanics--were determined to bury his polarizing politics for once and all. To quote a Village Voice columnist, Rudy has now been transformed from zero to hero (don't exactly recall his quote but soemthing to this effect). And Voice, by the way, is America's largest weekly newspaper.
|
| GP |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 03:10 AM
TOI is fueling in Nepal. while Indian Govt. calls Maoists
as terrorists, but, TOI is advocating as if their good friends.
You can see an example:
Leader • Prachanda, 47, known to friends as a gentle, soft-spoken person. • Prachanda, a graduate in agriculture and a former school teacher, broke off from a mainline communist group in the mid-1990s to lead a hardline faction. • Reputed to have 16 bodyguards and an addiction to buffalo milk. • Estimated 5,000-strong guerrilla force.
--
Looking at the Trend of TOI and the notice by Kunda Dixit, its time
to rethink about TOI's policy. Meanwhile, in telephone conversation,
the TOI might have cheated different things and sorted out what
they needed. Being them Indian, we can not deny their cunning
style.
If Nepal Govt. is going to give license to TOI as reported in
news media via some Nepalis, it should be stopped via Nepali
News papers. No one should buy their publication. They might
start copying news from TKP and publish as if their own. You
can not deny this possibility, becasue KPub has already a good
network of reporters and Indians are good in cheating. It can
happen. TOI should be condemmned.
|
| SK |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 03:15 AM
TOI has printed Dixit's denial.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp?art_ID=501150611
Times of India report denied
Nepali Times editor, Kunda Dixit, has denied a report in The
Times of India quoting him about a possible Indian Army role
in tackling the Maoist insurgency in Nepal.
"The quote is malicious, and continues with the time-honoured
tradition among some New Delhi journalists to put words in the
mouth of Nepali journalists," says Dixit.
"This is a sensitive time in Nepali politics, and we can do
without Indian media trying to fish in these troubled waters,
especially by using the credibility of Nepali journalists to their
own ends."
|
| GP |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 03:17 AM
Senior Congress leader Sujata Koirala told this correspondent over phone from Inarwa, "Their demand for a classless state is baseless".
|
| GP |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 03:17 AM
Senior Congress leader Sujata Koirala told this correspondent over phone from Inarwa, "Their demand for a classless state is baseless".
|
| GP |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 03:19 AM
If you read Times of Indians, you will find so worst quote,
that they could not find any body in Nepali Congress and
went Sujata and called her as Senior Leader of Nepali
Congress. Tuchha manche ko sangat tuchha manche sanga
nai huncha.
TOI:
Senior Congress leader Sujata Koirala told this correspondent over phone from Inarwa, "Their demand for a classless state is baseless".
|
| GP |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 03:29 AM
Thanks SK and thanks Kunda Dixit and all posters here
whose discussions might help journalists like Kunda
Dixit to enhance and uphold their faith in our democracy and
nationalism. Its time to move to next topic. TOI should
find the reporter and punish for defaming a person and
his professional capability. Why not some lawyers
sue in Nepali court, so that TOI can be stopped before
they enter in Nepal.
GP
|
| _BP |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 05:06 AM
This is typical of us debating a political issue. Very emotionally charged and full of our own prejudices. I doubt anyone of us would really want to live under a Maoist regime over getting help from our Indian neighbors. We have to choose our allies and enemies carefully. The British or the US Armies are not going to come and help us. The Chinese won't help us. And our anti-Indian sentiments runneth over without shame. Even if those were really Kunda Dixit's words, in a journalistic commentary, I wouldn't have been as upset as some of our friends on this page. But nonetheless, it was interesting to read your opinions. However, it bothers me that we seem to be so against getting help from India. It is the lesser of two evils. Perhaps some of us want to give the RNA some more chances, but we have to allow for the possibility that it may not succeed.
|
| GP |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 09:01 AM
Before I write further in this topics, I must inform here everyone
who was hurt by my postings that I had sent my sincere apology
to Mr. Kunda Dixit for my inability to wait until his clarification comes,
and in fact, under the situations and sceneraios many peoples
believed what appeared in TOI and I was also chased by the news
and caught before seeing clafications. Its in fact, a lesson to me
and I can not reverse the part I hurt to Mr. Dixit, but, surely, my
conscious says its time to regret -and- apologize for my part,
and lets hope not to make same mistake second time. Its also
time for all Nepalis to be careful while talking to foreigh
journalists especially, Indians, because you are not sure how
much they will sort out and purge the things to make excerpts
exactly fit their need. -GP
_BP wrote:
I doubt anyone of us would really want to live under a Maoist regime over getting help from our Indian neighbors.
Sri _Bp ji, FYI, I would rather prefer to be under Maoists as similarly as
Biswo ji said, but, I will never accept Indian Army in Nepali soil. Look
at the Cambodia, what Vietnamese did. BTW, have you every met
any Nepalis who have met or worked with Indian Army? Yes, I did.
Being from Pokhara, I met many many "Gurkha Palton(platoon)"
who were in Indo-China war and Indo-Pakistan war. Well, after my
SLC exam before joining my college, I used to be myself a great Juwade
along with my villagemates in my own village. We used to spend day
and nights with those retired Gurkha ladakus, some of them even
fought in Folkland. In those days, these ladakus told those horror
stories of looting and raping local womens during the war by Indian
Army. when the IA looted money and jewelary from Pakistan,
they even killed their friend to snatch the jewelary. If anyone
wants to know those stories verified, you can go to Pokhara and
have interview with the old Gurkhas "hami Gurkha ta sojho manche
lakka chhapa najjanne, oho, Indian haru ta kepo garen". This
sentence still echoes in my ear told by the lahure dai. He got
bullet penetrated through his thigh and was langado for rest of his life.
Once Indian army invades Nepal, they will never leave. Its not like
Sri Lanka. They will never allow Nepal to have independent govt.
and many many things will be lost, including the hydro powers too.
We will be really Colony of India. So, firend, do not even imagine
of inviting Indian Army inside 10 gaja.
_BP wrote:
We have to choose our allies and enemies carefully.
Yes we have to select our allies very carefully, but, Indian Army can
never be allies of Nepal.
GP
|
| _BP |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 10:16 AM
GPji:
Your point is well-taken. Hopefully it will never come to that!
|
| sunakhari |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 12:44 PM
GP and _BP and everyone else:
Look at Sikkim! and lets pray it never ever comes to that!
|
| ArmyAppeal |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 12:54 PM
Here is an appeal from RNA. Please heed before declaring who can win and who
can't in this war!
[From Nepalnews.com]
--------------------------------------------------
Army seeks “cooperation” from media
Royal Nepal Army has sought “cooperation” from journalists and media by publishing news, opinion, comments and other publication materials relating to army only after confirming with the Information Department of Royal Nepal Army, said a notice issued by News Director of the Royal Nepal Army.
The notice has also stated that the Royal Nepal army has been mobilised as per the Constitution of the Kingdom of Nepal. nepalnews.com yl Nov 27
|
| NK |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 01:52 PM
Are GP and _BP related? Just wondering. And what is that little dash infront of BP? Is that some sort of symbol to communicate with Martian?
[ha ha ha... i am funny or what?]
|
| NK |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 01:58 PM
And, who in the world is this "Ramdai?" Just like a hand writing expert I wished, at a time like this, we had a cyber writing expert. You know to see who this "Ramdai" is. Is he a regular visitor of this site? Or is he just a wanderer? Anyway, he seriously needs to go wash his mouth with a serious soap. I am dead serious. Seriously, he seems to have a personal vendatta against Biswo. Everybody is agreeing or disagreeing or staying neutral. And here he comes with his true and tested method of "argument" and start shooting off his mouth like a Pode. (Ok podes out there, please forgive me for saying that. i am far from a castist. I just ran out of similies, that is all)
|
| observer |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 02:12 PM
Guys, be careful before you trust the Indian media. These people are totally unrelaible and I would not be very inclined to listen to them.
The Indian media always has a different agenda in mind; so be careful with them
|
| Dawg |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 03:01 PM
I posted about my doubt before (read below or above where it was initially posted) all of you were blaming him erratically. But, I am not at all satsified with the Kunda's denial.
In the denial, Kunda does not say that he did not say those words, rather he blames the Indian Media for putting those words in his mouth? They laid the bait, and our beloved Mr. Dixit took it.
Now with all the hooplah and lashing of him by all of us and aided by our beloved Ashutosh, he even posts the same lame "denial" even in this board. I am truely dissapointed. Sounds like a typical chattu "bahun".
ps: "bahun" here means the act and not Brahman, who by birth I am as well.
>I doubt if Mr. Kunda Dixit really said those
>words. The Indian media has been known to
>propogate their own views specially in
>regards to Nepal's sovereignity. You could
>feel the same in the peice done about
>Prachanda. The Indian dawgs have always
>eyed Nepal, always awaiting to get to us.
>This is from the "Grand Design" of the India.
>
>So I suggest we not fall into the trap and
>wait for Kunda Dixit to clarify. Even if it
>true, isn't it a little akward that
>Prachanda talked about the Indian Army and
>the same issue is raised here.
>
>Personally, if the Indian Army is deployed,
>I am with the Maoist.
|
| Deshko Chinta |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 05:19 PM
On what Kunda Dixit said/denied saying:
It is queer that in the current issue of Nepali Times there is a big report that is very critical about RNA plans to upgrade itself with new weapons. The argument goes, why does a poor country like Nepal need this new hardware when that could be used for hospitals and schools. So the conclusion is don't spend money on better defense. It is another matter that because of lack of adequate defense what ever was built during the last 50 years is being destroyed piece by piece (Phaplu airport the latest victim)
Now Kunda tells Times of India that because Nepal Army is not equipped properly, the mighty Indian army should come in...a reasonable invitation....very harmless.
If he denied this aspect he should clearly say I did not say Indian army's role in Nepal is a possibility...I think best journalism is clarity.
Is there a contradiction here or am I missing something?
Like to hear your comments!
|
| GP |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 08:19 PM
Ramdai wrote: (name seems to copied from Maodai we had
ever seen in Internet).
Part I:
Disclaimer: I don't know Kunda Dixit.
Part II
Disclaimer: ...... And I disagree with him most of the time.
These parts do not match each other. "MOST OF THE TIME"
does not allow you to say "I don't know Kunda Dixit". If you
say its because you have never met him, then, none probably
know Kunda Dixit or even President Bush. Anyway, while
writing first part and second part, you lied and you are
a familier person who disagree with Kunda Dixit most of the
time, is it in GBNC.org? Your disagreements appeared here
in GBNC.org or in private time with Dixit. Its not peoples
here insulting Dixit, but, as a close one to him lying and
your lies are not with kids, but, many can smell the smoke
very well.
God Bless Ramdai does not arrive here second time and
tells he also don't know Bush, King Gyanendra, ....
Mr. Ramdai, you too sometime are Masked when you have
to fire on someone.
GP
|
| GP |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 09:11 PM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=154933941
seems to have been removed . I could not find its link. Whats wrong?
Were they flooded with complain? Or, their objective "propaganda" was fulfilled.
Or, my cutting and pasting or one click in IE did not work?
GP
|
| it is me again |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 09:31 PM
GP wrote:
>Mr. Ramdai, you too sometime are Masked when you have
to fire on someone. <
And this firing at someone - the low road "Ramdai" (some imagination!) took was stunningly deplorable. Totally personal. Could they, Biswo and our "Ramdai" have met here in GBNC with other name?
|
| observer |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 09:31 PM
GP wrote:
>Mr. Ramdai, you too sometime are Masked when you have
>to fire on someone.
C'mon GPji! Remember Kanak Baniya from SCN? Who do you think he is??
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 09:36 PM
Friends:
How come I not getting what you people are saying? Or am I too dumb?
|
| GP |
Posted
on 27-Nov-01 10:46 PM
Ashu does not have passions to stick to a thread and always
goes on creating several threads esepcially when its not initiated
by him. Though its not a big problem, but, confining to same thread
for same topic would all late readers what others have also said.
In another thread, he asked the posters in this thread to apologize and
Biswo ji put counter argument that Ashu should first request with
TOI to put apology and then, only the posters can correct them,
otherwise, the posters will have to continue to apologize with TOI
too if they come up with Telephone conversation. It looked quite
logical, Ashu should have tried to pursue TOI for a grand apology.
Here Ashu writes:
(Remember that Hritik Roshan Kanda last December? At its root, it was a case
of MISPLACED emotional patriotism gone wrong!)
Ashu fails here to differentiate between HR kanda and K. Dixit issues,
because in HR case there was no evidence no REFERENCE and it
was all rumors based on mouth to ear to mouth flow, but, the
what K. Dixit had said was appeared in India's one of the most
selling newspapers and peoples have more reasons to believe and
meanwhile, as many say TOI has a subsidiary in Nepal too, and
if its so, the TOI should be considered more trustable as long as
it appears and goes without any official apology.
IS Appearance of denial requests is equal to Apology from the
reporter ? For many including me, its certainly not. Still I
did not stick to what I said and corrected myself based on
the Denial, but, Ashu can not force here others to send apology
just because a confusing denial appears in TOI website. As
Biswo ji said, the formal apology from reporter is necessary
and is still due.
For, NK ji 's surprise, GP has no relation with BP except humanity
and Nepalitwo , neither GP had relation with Girija Prasad Koirala, and
Girija Prasad Koirala had abbreviation GPK not GP. Well, the GP
had patented his initial here in GBNC.org by registering it his
own name. Thanks to San for making it my patented initial in GBNC.org.
Lets keep on moving.
GP
|
| _BP |
Posted
on 28-Nov-01 03:58 AM
Yes NK, you are funny.
Sometimes when people disagree passionately in this forum, it is fun to see how no one backs off. I am reminded of this little scenario:
A good way to threaten somebody is to light a stick of dynamite. Then
you call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone. "Hear
that?" you say. "That's dynamite, baby."
|
| NK |
Posted
on 28-Nov-01 09:11 AM
Biswo,
You are not "too dumb." You are just polite. Well except when you denounced Kunda Dixit. About the "Ramdai" thing, -- think! who could it be. compare the style the verbosity, the non-existent so called argument and think again. Maybe someone we all know? GP and I were "talking" about THAT, AND THAT'S THAT. Got it?
GP,
your first paragraph says it all. also the penchant for lifting paragraph to suit one's own thesis, no matter what the context might have been has been amusing to me. By the way, about that apology thing you asked to render, I thank you for that. For speaking up what you see as "just." Since I am into Gita (ahem, ahem) I am all for the Just Cause. That is my duty. I leave upto the other party to go on about doing their duty. It could be fighting the foreing war, reading trash, or just plain starting a new thread when the old thread would have been suffice.
_BP,
Was that joke directed towards me? If it were then it was not funny. If not then it was indeed funny! I am tickled :) [have you read 'winnie the pooh?"
|
| Orion |
Posted
on 28-Nov-01 10:07 AM
I did not see anyhting wrong with the article in the time of India. True, I would not like to see the Indian army come into Nepal because I love my country, but I think there is nothing wrong in merely mentioning the possibility. Mr Dixit says TOI fabricated stuff but even if Mr Dixit had said what was attributed to him, I think some of us are over-reacting to things as we always do on issues related to India. Whether, we like it or not, the Indian Army coming into Nepal is a POSSIBILITY and has always been one for the last 50 years. But we need to ask ourselves how PROBABLE it is and I personally think it is unliklely at this stage that India will want to send its troops marching into Nepal to solve Nepal's problems.
Why would India want its troops to get killed at the hands of the Moabadis? If the Maobadis directly threaten Indian interests, I think Indian and hope leaders are smart enough to realize that their chances of defeating the Moaist militias are better at the hands of the Nepalese Army whcih they can back with arms and training than if the Rajputana Regiment marched into Kathmandu or Dang or wherever.
On another note, I have always enjoyed reading Nepali Times, Himal etc. I think both Mr Kunda Dixit and his brother are smart people who often question the system in Nepal. I identify with them because I cannot take crap ( pardon my language) from anyone - whether that crap is democartic crap, nationalist crap or communist crap and I think as a democratic society we need to question the system whenever we have doubts.
|
| Akhilesh |
Posted
on 28-Nov-01 10:31 AM
Biswoji,
you are not dumb. Not at all. You make youself very clear.
I have said it before, and I will say it again. I will buy Kunda's claim when he says he was a victim of a malacious TOI propaganda. I know him for a long time and I know he's got integrity.
But if anyone feels otherwise, that's fine by me too. Why should anyone apologize for his/her beliefs, conviction and speculation? If it were not for their angry outburst, not many of us would have found what what had tranapired, not the least Kunda himself
That said, I thought Ashu went a bit too far in demanding an outright apology from Kunda's critics. But why. Speaking out your mind? Again, that's only my thought and you are free to disagree :)
|
| NK |
Posted
on 28-Nov-01 10:42 AM
Hey Akhilesh, my fren!
Where have you been? (maybe) to see the queen?
|
| sparsha |
Posted
on 28-Nov-01 11:33 AM
I don't see any reason why should Biswo apologize to Kunda. Apology for what?
How does "Down With Traitors" include Kunda Dixit? It only applies to him if he, in fact, is a traitor.
Why is Ashu asking/demanding aplogy from Biswo for Kunda Dixit?
G.P. may have apologized for all those "idiot", "ill fated" and other strong negative words/ sentiments in his email sent to Kunda D. before KD wrote in his defence. I don't think Biswo did that.
And this Ramdai, where have you been? you should visit GBNC more often and bless us all with your ideas/expression. Did a guy name "Biswo" hurt you in the past or what?
Ashu is saying, he is not Ramdai. Leave him alone.
Ashu, as G.P. mentioned, why do you create so many threads for the same topic?
NK, why are you chasing Akhilesh? I guess he already has a queen.
Let's move on.
"Down with traitors"
|
| NK |
Posted
on 28-Nov-01 11:42 AM
Sparsh!
Welcome to the club, my friend! I was wondering why you were so quiet. I really liked your insights : )and you were right. this "Ramdai" should visit us more often, so we can really really really find out who he really is. but i think some of us have already guessed. what do you think? if you ask me to "Move on, you idiot," then i will, really. i will never, ever talk about either "Ramdai" or Ram Babu KC. I promise.
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 28-Nov-01 12:02 PM
Exactly my points, Sparsha.
I am tired of Ashu trying to be more "pro-X' than the person 'X' I am addressing.
When I said Samrat's first story is similar to another I story I told, Samrat replied
very sanely. Then Ashu came here and said, "If you have said such to me...." I
mean what the hell is this. Is GBNC a celebrity club? A Nepali Congress Party?
Here is again, I am reacting to Kunda's comment. He clearly implied in TOI
something most of us didn't like. Kunda says he didn't say that. And Ashu comes
here, and says "Apology" "Apology"... Why does he need to be so smart and
so ingratiating?
Fine, I understand some people feel protected to live under the tutelage of other
people. A lot of us who have seen Nepali blockbuster "Chino", it is difficult to forget
the role of 'Shambhu'. Everytime 'Raake' (sunil Thapa) roars Sambhu replies with
his own ingratiating comments. Is that what I want to see in a person I am
dealing with in GBNC? No. I want people to stand up, and speak their mind. Or
if they can't do that, stop bragging about intellectual practice.
And look here, GPji is not pleased about Ashu's mentioning of his apology, and
Ashu is repeatedly teasing GP. There are a lot of readers who respond angrily
when a particular Nepali leader says some garbage in Nepali media, and then the
leader backtracks "I didn't say that..". Now, if people like Ashu are to be heard,
those Nepali readers should apologize with those leaders. No. That is not
necessary. That is not a fair game. We owe apology from either Kunda or TOI or
both. That's that simple.
If Ashu understands this , fine. If he doesn't understand this, he better run a
celebrity club. A celebrity club for TOI, Indian Army and probably Kunda Dixit also.
|
| Orion |
Posted
on 28-Nov-01 12:22 PM
To remind all this is what Dixit said which many people ahve taken issue with:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Army in Nepal is in for a very tough time and the possibility of the Nepal government seeking the help of the Indian Army cannot be ruled out," says Kunda Dixit, chief editor of Nepali Times, in an interview with Times News Network. "The Nepali Army may not be equipped to fight the Maoist," he adds.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know either Ashu or Kunda Dixit and will leave it to them to defend themselves but what is wrong with what Mr Dixit was quoted as saying? I hope the Nepalese Army is equipped to fight the Maoists but if it is not I see nothing wrong in asking a question about the capability of the Army. And just because a journalist asks, or doesn't ask, about the preparedness of the Army how will that change anything? If it is political correctness people want to chastise Mr Dixit for, then they have got him by the b___. But maybe people should do a little reality check here and ask themselves is the RNA really equipped to fight the Maoists? If it is not what needs to be done to equip it. If it is ,how long can they fight the Moiasts with their existing stock of weaponry and if the stock depletes how and where will further supplies come from.
These are all valid questions that everyone in Nepal has the right to ask.
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 28-Nov-01 01:10 PM
Orionji:
Both statements are objectionable.
Now that we know he said he didn't say those statements, it wouldn't be very
relevant to talk about these statements, But still I am trying to answer your
questions about whetherI overreacted.
>The Army in Nepal is in for a very tough time and the possibility of the Nepal
>government seeking the help of the Indian Army cannot be ruled out
On what basis did he say this statement? For your information, I was talking with
minister of state for foreign affairs the day Maoists attacked. If I can divulge any
thing from that talk, then he says, "RNA is fully equipped to cope with Maoists. "
and to think that Deuba government or RNA will seek Indian army's intervention is
a figment. Kunda says he didn't say these statements, so fine. Otherwise it is a
wrong statement. How did he know govt is gonna seek the Indian army's help?
>The Nepali Army may not be equipped to fight the Maoist
How the hell does he know? Why he used word like 'may not be'? These are very
exceptionable statements. Esp when RNA has just started to work, these statements serve as discouraging, and demoralizing statements.
The history of RNA is very estimable. RNA was formed to fight with the southern
enemy and unite the nation of Nepal. It has always been successful in its mission.
Now, what makes this gentleman think it is not going to be successful this time!
Of course , you are right. Just because a journalist says something doesn't affect
RNA. But the major question is , if you see my first posting, I was merely objecting
such statements. The right to object any statement is given to me by my
fundamental right of freedom of expression in this forum.
I hope I made myself clear.
|
| Anil |
Posted
on 28-Nov-01 01:18 PM
Just read this on Indian Express:
***************************************************
Nepal seeks Indian military supplies, Delhi offers help
Reuters
Kathmandu, November 28: Nepal is seeking military supplies from India and other nations to help it crush an insurgency by Maoist rebels battling to topple the monarchy, Home Minister Khum Bahadur Khadka said on Wednesday.
"We want support from wherever it comes, including from India, America," he told Reuters in an interview.
Nepal had asked India for helicopters with night-vision devices and other military equipment, he said. "We hope for a positive response."
He also said initial operations against the rebels had been successful but the campaign could last up to six months.
Nepal's King Gyanendra declared a nation wide state of emergency on Monday after Maoist rebels attacked police and Army posts across the Himalayan kingdom over the weekend.
India ready to aid Nepal in rebel fight
India is ready to offer Nepal "whatever assistance" the country needs in fighting a revolt by Maoists seeking to overthrow the constitutional monarchy, a Foreign Ministry spokeswoman said on Wednesday.
Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee spoke to Nepal's King Gyanendra by telephone on Wednesday and conveyed New Delhi's support for emergency measures announced by the country, Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Nirupama Rao said.
"The Prime Minister said India was ready to extend whatever assistance Nepal required in this hour of need," she told a news briefing.
When asked to specify whether India would be ready to supply soldiers along with military equipment to Nepal, Rao replied, "I would not go into details on that".
The Foreign Ministry spokeswoman's comments came after Nepal's Home Minister said Kathmandu was seeking military supplies from India and other nations to help it crush the revolt.
|
| Orion |
Posted
on 28-Nov-01 02:33 PM
Biswoji -
You have made yourself clear and you have every right to express your opinion the way you want to on this forum. It is obvious you and I disagree on a few things but I respect your right to hold an opinion that is different from mine and I also respect the love you have for your country and hope the feeling is mutual.
Since Mr Dixit did not say what TOI said he said, let's for a minute discuss what he did not say and your last reponse to it.
">On what basis did he say this statement? How did he know govt is
>gonna seek the Indian army's help?"
Well, he is talking about a POSSIBILITY here. You have fifty years of history to show that the though of the Indian army marching or (flying) into Nepal has been on the back of people's minds in Nepal and India. He did not say the Indian Army SHOULD march into Nepal. If he had said such a thing you and I would have been in total agreement in condemning him. I fail to undertand why people are so mad when someone just talks about possibilites. You appear to be a reasonable person to me, so please tell me do you REALLY think India is going to send its troops into Nepal? Please expalin to me why India would want to do such a thing and if this would be in the best interests of the Indian government.
"How did he know govt is
gonna seek the Indian army's help?"
I honestly don't know. Mr Khum Bahadur Khadka has now publicly said that Nepal will seek arms from the US and India and anybody else who willing to help. I mean the possibilty of seeking foreign help was very widely discussed by many people in Kathamandu the day of and before the emergency. So anybody could have said that. If I had been as famous and influnetial as Mr Dixit ( or even as well connected as you) and TOI had called me at home and asked me about the capability of the RNA, I wouldnt be suprised if I said some thing like 'I think and hope they can fight the Maoists becasue they have a great history of bravery but in a war one must not rule out any possibilities including the possibility that the Army MAY NOT BE adequeatkly armed given that the RNA has never really engaged in active non-peacekeeping battle for over 200 years now. The governement must take every measure to make sure the RNA can fight and defeat the Moaists including seeking help from other countries if necessary ... blah blah... ". If I were a TOI journalist trying to write an article and I had to decipher that rather diplomatic and politically correct statement, I would simply pick the appropriate part and write " Nepali journalist Mr So and So did not rule out the possibilty of the Nepalese Army not being adequately equipped to fight the Maoists and the Indian Army having to assist it". The debate then shifts to journalistic ethics which is besides the point in our discussion.
How does he know the Nepali Army may not be equipped to fight the RNA? I have no idea and maybe he himself can clarify that point. But the very words you have problems with i.e. "may not be" is something any resonable person in Nepal can say. RNA equipped na huna sakchha - I guess would be the translation into Nenglish - I think the same way too. I mean people can have doubts. People had doubts about the police and they can have doubts about he Army. It is for the Army and the governemnt to address these doubts by showing effective action on the ground. If the RNA can crush the Maoists - the doubts of people like me will be put to rest. I love my goddamn country and I am just worried that my Army will not be able to defend my country from a bunch of people who seem to have lost their heads, judging by the events of the last few days.
So again I donot see any reasonable justification for the hullabaloo raised over what Mr Dixit said or did not say. He merely raised, or did not raise, a possibility and nowhere in that article has he or anybody invited the Indian army to come to Nepal.
And it looks like I just wrote an essay that defends Mr Dixit - my purpose was never to do that but rather to point out that I think we are reacting more than we need to over the TOI article and also to state that in these difficult times while we need to support the Army and the government,we should continue asking questions.
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 28-Nov-01 03:07 PM
Orionji:
I didn't make this case against him. For god's sake, I know he is a mere journalist.
I am not saying he is inviting Indian army, because I know he can't. He doesn't
matter since he doesn't hold any official position. My first reaction was just 5-6
lines.
This thing, this hullaballo, his apology, this name calling, they are the result of
a lot of sources. You know this.
I am always willing to postpone intractable problems because they definitely need
time:-)
|
| DiG |
Posted
on 28-Nov-01 04:40 PM
The only problem with Kunda is he was outsmarted by TOI. He said those words. Being such a "proffessional" journalist, he should've anticipated such questions, and should've made proper statement. He didn't so that's it.
Once this maoist prisioner was brought to court and was being asked some difficult question by the prosecutor. The judge insisted he answer the question. So the maoist turned to the judge and asked him "Shreeman, tapaile ghus khana chodnu vayeko kati vayo" (Sir, how long has it been since you stopped taking bribe?). The judge was dumfounded.....
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| akhilesh |
Posted
on 28-Nov-01 06:32 PM
dear NK,
I am preety much around. Just busy with my final papers. That's all.
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| GP |
Posted
on 28-Nov-01 09:22 PM
Biswo ji wrote: ( I am posting here again to add this
posting here to make this thread justified. )
Ashu:
>I think we can talk about Nepal-India relations without getting emotional, without
>using patriotism as the usual "moral high ground", and, more importantly, without
>losing sight of changing/shifting international geopolitical alliances.
Of course, when you think you can define the moral high ground.
It bothers me when people like you try to preach other. It bothers big time, my
friend. Do you think that you or your comrades are the only persons who 'didn't
lose sight of changing international geopolitical alliances'?
Here is another fact for you. When India was declared free in 1947, most of the
princely states were ascended to the new republic. It was trend then. It was the
so called changing alliance then. But we resisted. We need to decide what is good
for us depending upon ourselves, not on the nature of changing alliances.
Here are all major dailies of Nepal, all major papers, all major political leaders, all
intellectuals saying that TOI investment is not good for us. And here you go,a few
people like Ashutosh Tiwari,something Onta, Kunda Dixit welcomes them. Then
TOI quotes Kunda as grandly saying "RNA probably can't win this war against
terrorism' . And when readers like me respond with justifiable rage, Kunda denies
he said anything like that. But
1. He doesn't say who did he talk to .
2. He doesn't say whether he asked for apology or not from TOI.
And some people wants 'US' to apologize. You want me to apologize, and when I
don't apologize, you come here with :
1. Bhaktigaan of Kunda Dixit.
2. Terming our opposition to foolish comments of a person as 'reptilian emotion'.
3. Terming us as jingoist and paranoid.
4. Proclaiming high ground as 'realist' for yourself.
That is fine with me. But to me, it looks increasingly imprerative for people like you
and your celebrity Kunda Dixit and also people like Ramdai to
1. Stop attacking readers.
2. Stop sitting down with every so called journalists from TOI or whatever
newspaper for interview.
3. Stop giving interview without setting any term
4. Rinse mouth daily with anti-halitotis mouth rinse
5. Start addressing fellow poster with dignity and respect
6. Learn to respect other people, their judgement, and their patriotic feeling
7. Stop speculating about RNA's capability
8. And finally apologise for terming opponents 'Paranoids' and misquoting them
You want to apologise , fine. You don't want to apologise, that's understandable
from you. I can move on.
>Would you rather live under the Nepali Maoists or rather be rescued by Nepali
>jawaans from Palpa, Dharan, Dang and so on who are currently serving in the
>Indian Army?
I will live in Maoists rule. It is your myopia to think Nepali jawaans are only Nepali
jawaans when they fight from Indian Army. Their bosses are still Indians.
Maoists won't last more than a decade if they become unpopular. But Indians, they won't live without causing more damage to Nepal. You need to be shameful for advocating such entry.
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| GP |
Posted
on 28-Nov-01 09:40 PM
Ashu ji said:
>Would you rather live under the Nepali Maoists or rather be rescued by Nepali
>jawaans from Palpa, Dharan, Dang and so on who are currently serving in the
>Indian Army?
Biswo ji said:
I will live in Maoists rule. It is your myopia to think Nepali jawaans are only Nepali
jawaans when they fight from Indian Army. Their bosses are still Indians.
Maoists won't last more than a decade if they become unpopular. But Indians, they won't live without causing more damage to Nepal. You need to be shameful for advocating such entry.
What will I say?
-----------------
Well said Biswo ji. Ashu runs behind Indians for every thing
these days, for all those things he could do himself, and he
seems to try to ask everything (from all his postings) from
Indians. Does not his last few postings imply this conclusion?
Before you ask someone, why don't you think of trying it
yourself? There are two things we need to separte?
1. Help you ask: Utilities, not whole things done by
Indians, even Army personnel. Yes, no one here
denies this part. We need technology, and arms,
and as it like in Afganistan, the US Army also supplied
all utlity and Noerthern alliance had to make move
all moves on the land of Afganistan, and US
has not taken this part as their job, and you can see
how Americans are asking Pasthuns to raise arms
against Talibans, and all utilities are supplied by
USA . IF you are talking this sort of help, we
are talking same thing, but, using different words
to mean same thing.
2. Ask all things done by your allies: How satelite
helps and govt. in Afganistan failed and also
failed in other paart of the world should also teach
us that we should not expect everything done by
foreigners, and in this sense, we don't need
Indian Army personnel to run in Nepali land.
This is not as simple as you think. This is what
USA has learned from major falisures in the
past, including Vietnam war. India also returned
from Sri Lanka because the public will not
support IA and not even Deuba govt. if IA
enters Nepal. that will be the start of failure
of Deuba govt. and big blow to NC govt. or
party. That will make fall of NC's support from
all spheres, except peoples like Ashu will
be sticking to that kind of supports.
So, we all except Ashu and "his close friends"
are favoring only logistic supports, but the other
ends i.e. Ashu seems to be looking for all
kinds of things done by Indians, because it
will open market in India. Yes, it will open for some
pro-Indian, but, not to all Nepalis. One thing
Ashu told several years back that Business Adm.
is taught very well in Harvard, but, good business
is done by Japanese, all most none studied in
Harvard. In this context, its better to see how
Japs. control their market, and how they sort
foreign investment from McDonals to KFC to Cocacola
but, not in Agricultural industry, or in unskilled
labour involved industry. They don't give even
a single visa to outsiders in unskilled labour, remember
this, and think of applying this part in Nepal too,
forget your Indian investment in all sort of business.
We are not going to buy all yours thoughts and
pro-Indian market policy.
Lets keep moving on. Say no to Pro-Indain market
supporters with limited knowledge of post-market
situations or vision.
GP
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| GP |
Posted
on 28-Nov-01 10:40 PM
>Ashu, prepare for a barrage on this matter.
Ashu wrote:
Oh, absolutely, BP.
Let the attacks come.
That's fine.
----
Ashu, please go and read all those postings from you after
this thread was initiated by Biswo ji, who is attacking whom.
How are trying to press your "REALISTIC" thoughts on
"your PARANOID" opponents? You are really going
beyond .... what not? to prove your thougts are better,
and unfortunately, you are going to lose faith on yourself
and by attacking all your opponents with your own
classification, "either you are with and be classified as
realistic, with opponents and be PARANOID". Take
your classification back and retreat from the thread.
Its good to review yourself and apply the breaks, if
you can not apologize for your wrong classifcation
on certain peoples here, its better you should stop
further posting or creating new threads to justify
yourself. GO and review your recent postings.
Lets realize that there are always few FUNDAMETNALISTs
and few RADICALs in all society, and
common peoples are guided by both's thoughts,
and if any one of them get full control on
common peoples, the results will be devasting, uncontrollable.
Do not expect you to get public support on your side
alone, always. I am not teaching you, but, telling you my
disagreements with your aim of defaming many
individuals simply because they did not buy your
thoughts of apologizing.
GP
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| _BP |
Posted
on 29-Nov-01 12:30 AM
GP, FYI, you and Ashu both argue with a lot of zest. You state that Ashu "preaches" to the rest of us, but when I read your posts, the only difference I see is the opinion. The delivery is just as prejudiced, in a different direction. Maybe prejudice has too much of a negative connotation, how about "educated bias." Both of you love our country, just in different ways, but equally as strongly I am sure. This is true for Biswo as well. This is good to know.
I guess out of these discussions, the good thing one takes away is a balanced outlook on the problem. I am married to someone of Indian origin, so I feel just at home when I am fraternizing with my wife's family or with my own Nepali family. At first I didn't think it was any big deal to have the Indian military come in to help my beloved country, because I am living in an environment of such cordiality between the two nationalities. But I thank GP for pointing out the downsides. Now, even though I don't fully agree with GP and Biswo, I am sobered in my thinking.
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| bir_nepali |
Posted
on 29-Nov-01 08:28 AM
It is strange, strange. May be not so strange. What triggers a Nepali mind in Nepal and outside Nepal? No wonder there was a strong reaction on the Hritik Roshan episode. There were people who died for the cause that was never to be. I thought only the people on the street who did not have any means of verifying the fact would sharply react to such matters. I am obviously wrong after seeing so many postings on this topics.
For a moment, let's say Kunda said what he was alleged to have said. So what? Has anyone paid any attention to Nepal army? It is a top heavy and the soldiers are used regularly for constructing the houses of the officers. The soldiers at the lowest level have no better status than that of a house servant. For the non-officer recruit level, the Nepal army does not attract the best, does not retain the best and above all it does not train the best. The shoeshine boys at the Pipal boat probably not only make more money than the sepoys but they also have more inner self respect and freedom than the sepoys have within the barracks. If it had not been for the peacekeeping force abroad, many at the lowest level would have left the army a long time back. The income derived from such travel feed into the vital nerve of the present day's economy where a sepoy is not aloof. It is a demoraliized army at the low level. You only have to talk to some of the non-commissioned officers and sepoys and the truth will come out. Do you think all those who prefer to go to serve in the India army are not partriots? Why don't you look at the army's annual budget and see where they spend the most money at. Not definitely at the foot soldiers. The army is known to be a well protected club of the priviledged. The coveted training at Sandhurst and Dehradun academy is reserved only for a few priviledged. It is a shame that after a decade of democracy, not much has changed in the army nor much has been writtine about the army goings on, except a brief news on a few purchase deals.
I only hope that Mr. Dixit would one day put on the sepoy's shoes and try walking, instead of putting an officer's hat on, let us know what goes on.
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| GP |
Posted
on 29-Nov-01 06:41 PM
Bro,
you telliing here that peoples are running behind rumors, and trying
to justify "even if Dixt had said, so what", meanwhile, you are
forgetting two things:
1. HR case was completely based on rumors. Dixit saga was
fully based on TOI publication, you know TOI. TOI never
apologized, just wrote that Dixit denied, but, reporter's
version did not come after Dixit's denial. It can be just
another news over old news.
2. You go on teachnig here this and that about Nepal army.
If its your opinion based on your news paper reading
and rumors on RNA, I have nothing to say. LEt it be another
opiinon like we all make here. Otherwise, come up with
some data, we are not blind readers of Khangendra Sangraula
to take your some halla based Army ma yasto chha usto chha.
Come up with soid evidence and this was what we were talking
"If Dixit has said, on what basis he said? If he had said, he
had only one data, and that was just on the first day of the
attack". Its never justified. BTW, I hope you do play with
data if you are in university, and should be knowing "single
data" is not acceptable, at least you need two data points
to make a straight line, three to make parabola or
exponential or any splines ...
Come up with data, that data should be not personally
generated random data with some biased information.
GP
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| bir_nepali |
Posted
on 29-Nov-01 07:51 PM
Dear bro,
I am no longer in a university. I am in a real world. I have not been able to have data for everything in real world. I wish I could quantify everything in this world but can't. Sorry, something you just have to take at a quality value. It takes a while torealize that everything in the real world is not going to as straight forward as 2 plus 2 equals to 4. Having said that, I do understand why you ask for data. As for a newspapers like TOI, they are not going to print an apology. Just printing that so and so has denied is good enough. If they have a taped interview, they would have said that they have it and they will stand by it. As for the army, I come from several generations of the army family but no longer. So, I hope you will take my word for it without a need for data just on the empirical basis.
Jai Nepal!
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| sushila singh tharu |
Posted
on 27-Apr-02 05:03 PM
DEAR BROTHERS,
I SAW THE COMMENT ON INDIAN ARMY,
YOU HAVE VERY LITTLE TIME TOTHINK ABOUT NATION.MOST OF YOUARE STUDYING ,WORKING FOR YOUR CARRIER AND YOU HAVE TIME TI TALK ONLY.I AM ARAPED GIRL BY NRA AND MAOIST.WHAT WE GIRLS ARE FACING IN THIS EMERGENCY PERHAPS YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REALISE, BECAUSE YOU ARE
THA MALES OF SAY THE RAPERS.
IF YOU REALLY WANT TO DO SOMETHING , YOU COME HERE SEE THE CONDITION ,THE INTERNET NEWS WILL JUST MAKE ROMANTIC NOT MAKE FEEL WITH RESPONSIBLE.
YOU ARE THE FUTUREMAKERS .
SUSHILA
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 28-Apr-02 01:38 PM
Sushilaji:
Sorry to hear about your plights. I don't know why you chose to reply to this
old threads, but I am willing to reply to your question here.
Long ago, right here, I criticised Nepal Police for its indescriminate ravishing of
women in Maoist inflicted areas when the rebellion was still incipient. While the
credibility of Royal Army is better than Nepal Police, it is not implausible that
some of its members went out and commit the heinous crime.
I hope that civilian society in Nepal will push for the establishment of legally
powerful institute that will penalise those in army and police who were criminals
in uniform. Just because they were fighting for democracy doesn't mean they
were free from civil responsibility.
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