| Sajha.com Archives | |
| Username | Post |
| poster | Posted
on 11-Dec-01 01:29 PM
http://www.yomari.net:8080/forum/1007991857/9742/show_message |
| sally | Posted
on 11-Dec-01 02:52 PM
Fascinating. Seems like this girl has picked up some seriously sad values somewhere along the line–drooling about wealth, tossing around the names of stores as if they’re gods, and imagining she’s like an American 20-year-old when, frankly, a lot of American 20-year-olds are busier volunteering with service organizations or studying for their futures than worrying about where to find “the best cocktails.” Where do you suppose she got her sense of what’s important in life? School? Status-obsessed parents? (But I should be kind. Maybe her parents paid for their own lifestyle by volunteering her for an experiment in which, poor thing, her brain tissue was surgically removed and replaced with TV commercials.) Do other people think this girl is representative of Nepali kids raised in America, or kids who went to Lincoln? Or is her grossly materialistic, modern day Marie Antoinette attitude in the minority? Just curious. |
| anepalikt | Posted
on 11-Dec-01 04:04 PM
Scarey stuff. I guess people really do think that way unfortunately. If being a 20 year old American (Sally, you are right, many Americans at that age are doing much more than what she thinks they are doing... which is a big fat nothing) is all that she aspired to, well and good. It will be interesting to see how all the partying and the "care free western lifestyle" will catch up to her. Here is a serious example of cognitive dissonance! Maybe that is her way to escape the reality in Nepal right now? Maybe young peopel feel totally disempowered and powerless to bring about change? What do other think? |
| forum | Posted
on 11-Dec-01 05:37 PM
You can reply to the person who posted the original message at: http://www.yomari.net:8080/forum/ She won't be reading your comments if you post it here. |
| link | Posted
on 11-Dec-01 05:38 PM
Click this rather: http://www.yomari.net:8080/forum |
| Sfengali | Posted
on 11-Dec-01 11:12 PM
Just because the girl wants to do whatever she wants to do with her life is no reason for a value judgment. What's with all this self righteousness? Do we feel any better by blatantly asserting that someone else's values fall short of some subjective expectation? You all sound like control freaks yecch! The light that burns the shortest burns twice as brightly. If you feel it you do it now. When are you gonna do it? time is rough hits you hard especially below the belt. ask BP he's gotta have some say on that having freshly crossed the hill and looking at the thity slope. As Slim Shady would say In life there are the has beens, the wannabes and the hustler and hard cores. And I suppose you are all standing somewhere," asha ko diyo liyera" saying "I am right I am right, I am good I am good". What a wistful and melancholic way to live a life. Damn I nearly fell in your trap :) |
| anepalikt | Posted
on 11-Dec-01 11:48 PM
If you gotta quote Slim Shady! what can I say! |
| Sfengali | Posted
on 12-Dec-01 12:17 AM
But slim shady merely goes with the vibe of what the passage was all about. Its pop so it is relevant. Cristicizing classicism was exactly what I was doing. I am making a distinction between the conception of what IT is in classicism, vis a vis yours (Sally, Florence Nightingale, Horatio Alger et all, the nobility of all that venture nonwithstanding) Vs. the the campbell soup can as defining art of 21st century. Its is merely a different emphasis, different values are underscored. In the Sfengali universe IT is not information technology, 'it' means the whole mess that happens in this brief crack of light called life Hope this helps in reading between the lines |
| anepalikt | Posted
on 12-Dec-01 12:39 AM
Sven, potificate all you want. As much as I am a fan of Rockwell (if that was who you are refering to? or was it Worhol), I have to say that he is not still not Titian. And what is this about Nightingale and Horation Algers. I think I am a little slow on the uptake on that count. And have to commend you The young woman (whose posting in some other site we are obviously talking about) needs some serious introspection. I guess you can call it judgemental if you want! You are doing a lot of ass(of)u(and)me(ing) when you say... "asho ko diyo liyera". That sound more like a projection of your own issues.... some path you obviously think you did not take and are obviously thinking about. Hardcore partying is fine,but most people don't die young, they grow old, they fester and they live to be decrepit bags of rotting flesh. And unfortunately you stick around to find out how unfun it is. How partying hard does not mean you can avoid the hard living you will have to do. Also, this is obviously a young Nepali woman. Amd personally i am interested to learn more about how attitudes towards women might have changed in Nepal, that first, her folks let her out at all sorts of hours; second, has our nepali society changed so that peopel don't talk like they used to; third, again as I mentioned above, what about the getting old business and is ravign and taking ecstacy the only things to aspire to about western culture? Obviously not in your case, Mr. Svengali! I have to say, your attemp at pursuation 9of was it enlightenment) fell short this time. |
| sfengali | Posted
on 12-Dec-01 01:19 AM
Since I am not a guru I couldn't enlighten anyone, least of all you, the stoic beacon of nepali cultural values. But my observation about Florence nightingale is pretty astute, as evidenced by you thinking that people who do not subscribe to your set of values are some how sick or on the wrong path and its a sign of problem that you some how have to address, call it thought healing or whatever if the analogy stretches that far. But I was not attempting to criticize or to chastize you as you should have so inferred from what I said. All I was saying is that every one is suspect, you cannot chastize someone while expecting complete immunity. But then this is completely irrelevant. The key is perhaps why is that some notion of nepalitwo asserts inconvertible hegemony over people like you? It just reeks of the elitist thinking that's rampant in upper middle class nepali family. That they some how inherited the right that they are the cultural messengers and that somehow makes them rise above the rest and makes them pious. Its very possible that you are completely different than way you come across as. The point was very simple, loosen up man! you are not atlas even if you think you are. And see a joke if there is one. |
| anepalikt | Posted
on 12-Dec-01 09:58 AM
Again, Sven, some serious assumptions being made here... and whoever said that what one writes in this forum is the honest to god's truth baseline according to which one lives ones life. and besides, not when people obviously misread what you say. A beacon of stoic nepali calues.............. you gotta be kiddin me! Whatever! some might aspire to that, but I don't and I am not and never will be. And actually I would be interested to find out what "stoic cultural values" mean.... and no, if you think my attitude towards the girl or yourself is of some sort of judgement based on what you did not do or did differently from what I think, that is not the case. What the girl seems to aspire to, in my opinion, is limited, but as I said in my original post. That's her call. However, I am genuinely interested in what this means.. for nepali society and her in the future. And being a cultural messenger.... boy you must be doing some serious candle burning on both ends to surmise that from my posts. And speaking of upper middle class elitism.... why my dear, you seem to have that market cornered yourself! Just look at the language you use (and I don't mean english). Also, please don't be accusing people of being elitist because they have an opinion about something. I guess I could call you a rebel, a frontier man, a pioneer, but unfortunately I can't from what you have said so far. They all reek of various things.... most of all a desire somehow not to seem so frigging boring as to call a spade a spade. And I have to say, like me, you probably are of a priviledged background in Nepal, educated, somewhat disenchanted and in a few years will get oh so bourgeoise and so . but maybe not. even if not... you will have perfected your own brand of elitism........... Anyhow, yes loosen up, that's a good one. I think I will take your advise and tell you what you better do the same.... Also, similar to what you said, when you point a finger, remember three are pointing back at YOU. |
| sally | Posted
on 12-Dec-01 11:48 AM
I don't really care if this Galli fellow considers me judgmental. As a mom, making value judgments is part of my job description. My kid does not, so far, have any opinions on discos and the relative wealth of the "in crowd"--his definition of "cool" would be anyone who plays at being a T. Rex--but I do feel this girl is showing crummy values, and I do wonder how her brain got filled with them. I'm less interested in the judgment part of this than the practical questions, really. Is it possible for a parent, especially in Nepal, to give a child both a good education and a sense of proportionality? What does it do to the psyche of the upcoming generation to be educated in places where they might be around a lot of kids who are snobbish, materially obsessed, and slavishly consumerist? And how do these attitudes arise in the first place? I don’t mean that if this girl and her "in crowd" had been in some village school their mindset would be “culturally pure” and therefore wonderful, or that Lincoln, Rato Bangala, etc are “bad” in comparison to some fantasy ideal. But my question is: Do the “best” schools of KTM (and educationally, I don’t question the term “best”) end up breeding these sorts of attitudes (presumably unintentionally)? If so, it’s a real Catch-22, isn’t it? And this girl--what should we call her? Barbie? Bimbette?–apparently spent 10 years in America. What can THAT experience do to kids who then return to Nepal? Obviously there’s no single answer to these questions. But I am curious what people have heard, experienced, etc, about these expat/rich Nepali schools and the social culture of their students, and about the experience of returning to Nepal from the US. I'm sure there are many positives as well. The question is, what are the landmines, and how does one avoid them? |
| sunakhari | Posted
on 12-Dec-01 12:03 PM
Sally, I worked at Lincoln once upon a time and these are my thoughts on the culture that is beyond the gates of that school. The kids are average American kids who hang out with their friends and yap and zap. They don't do anything out of the ordinary that I would deem WILD. NOW, if you take what these kids do and put it into Nepalese perspective, of course, they're WILD. Going to parties, meeting friends and hanging out together in Thamel (the older ones) is STILL not held as being normal Nepali teenagers. As in every public school here, there are kids who were just lavished with gifts etc etc which are not to be toyed around at their age or taken for granted BUT I think that is more a parent's problem than the kid's. THEN, there were Nepalese kids whose parents could afford to send them there and SOME of these kids (not you ARNICO :) ) just couldn't control themselves. I think they were much freer there at school than at home. And I, frankly, don't know if some of the parents of these kids knew the repurcussions of sending their kids to this school when they did not practice the same "normal" liberal ways at home nor did they seem to be equipped with the norms of the American culture. My two-bits on these, maybe Arnico could expand. As my POV was soley from that of an employee. |
| IMA | Posted
on 12-Dec-01 12:48 PM
Well! It's good to know that this girl had good time in Nepal. The only sad part is that She's got Party and drugs stories but no Sex stories to tell, that kind of makes the whole trip incomplete. Just my Opinion. |
| IMA | Posted
on 12-Dec-01 12:48 PM
Well! It's good to know that this girl had good time in Nepal. The only sad part is that She's got Party and drugs stories but no Sex stories to tell, that kind of makes the whole trip incomplete. Just my Opinion. |
| SIWALIK | Posted
on 12-Dec-01 02:51 PM
Hmm, I second Sunakhari's observation since I once was working at Lincoln. Money creates its own values, and these Nepali kids at Lincoln, except for a few, have values that is created by money, not by culture--whatever that means. Also, you may have heard about the American disease, affluenza, that is responsible partly for values that are uniquely American, whatever that means. |
| _BP | Posted
on 12-Dec-01 08:38 PM
But the American girl, while living life in the fast lane may still be a good student and perform community service etc etc. OK, nevermind, I am not qualified to comment on this topic. I am over 30 however. Thanks for noting that Sefngali. Throw me a crutch will you. |
| curious | Posted
on 12-Dec-01 11:30 PM
my father is a diplomat and i have lived the expat's life. I have to say I have lived a priceless life where i had to adapt to each and every culture. I have lived and traveled in many countries, and yes have partied and hung out with friends. However, I still have much nepali pun in me even though i have not lived in nepal for 14 yrs. I am still very much part of my nepali culture and this is due to my parents and how they raised me. My brother went to lincoln and although he goes to parties he is not a bad kid. Although he hangs out at naglos or thamels he minds his own business and has fun just hanging out with his friends. Even though i am an expatriate's child my parents have taught me and raised me to be a good person, and just because i party or hang out with my freinds late at night does not make me wild nor does not instill bad feeling or appear disrespectful toward others. no matter where you grow up or how rich you maybe i feel it totally depends on the parents as how to raise your children correctly. |
| curious | Posted
on 12-Dec-01 11:32 PM
my father is a diplomat and i have lived the expat's life. I have to say I have lived a priceless life where i had to adapt to each and every culture. I have lived and traveled in many countries, and yes have partied and hung out with friends. However, I still have much nepali pun in me even though i have not lived in nepal for 14 yrs. I am still very much part of my nepali culture and this is due to my parents and how they raised me. My brother went to lincoln and although he goes to parties he is not a bad kid. Although he hangs out at naglos or thamels he minds his own business and has fun just hanging out with his friends. Even though i am an expatriate's child my parents have taught me and raised me to be a good person, and just because i party or hang out with my freinds late at night does not make me wild nor do i instill bad feelings or appear disrespectful toward others. no matter where you grow up or how rich you maybe i feel it totally depends on the parents as how to raise your children correctly. |
| sfengali | Posted
on 13-Dec-01 11:46 AM
Yo BP 30ish and married. I am sure temptations abound you, I keep hearing how having a steady girl is more of an attraction than a deterrent. On that notion I almost started wearing a ring on my ring finger, but then I thought hell that reeks of some really trite Seinfeld kind of caricature. Would testing the borders of marital institution be too hard to handle for a board as PC as this? I would suggest inviting some party girls, having an orgy or something, see if that don't get the juices running. Do it now, or picture this hanging out in your Mustang whatever, unbuttoned shirt hairy chest trying to regain the juice, hitting on high school girls like Kevin Spacey in American Beauty? But then hey if some chick has stabilized you like some plow that broke the plains, perhaps that is bliss. Rugged hiking may be good for a day, but if you farm you grow, multiply and stay fat and happy. Although meat and potatoes everyday is pretty boring and you want sushi, meat and potato is still meat and potato. But that's just rap. No high reason no appeal to genteel ambitions. BTW curios, if you read this I am super curios about expats that sound and talk like you. Can we get ziggy with it? |
| _BP | Posted
on 13-Dec-01 08:05 PM
Sfengali, I must say you are the first Nepali guy I know who talks jive, and tries to write like you do. I hope you weren't trying to disrespect me with your message above. |
| curious | Posted
on 13-Dec-01 10:19 PM
sfengali sorry no ziggy with it |
| Sfengali | Posted
on 13-Dec-01 10:44 PM
Yo curious, that was all love and play. No offense intended. You sounded a little low on the estrogen count, and therefore came the audacity to flirt. BP dittoo to you as well errr I meant on the offense count. You are wrong to say that I am the first Nepali to Jive, Kumar Basnet Big Jive-er (he is pure ghetto in some sense), Ratan Subedi Car Salesman (definitely knew street talk)kind of jive, Who the hell is that stand up comedian? The dude that does Chatyang or something? He's trying to bring a whole new level of respectability to it by being on TV. Sorry my knowledge of relevant Nepali culture is sketchy and spotty at best, but then again I think that's precisely what the culture is :) I am not trying to say that my attempt is to emulate these people. I consider Nepal my lil ghetto, inbred but nice and warm homies, poverty and hustling, and of course the whole freakin' town Nepal is run by gangstas, Its like the whole hip hop war man, east coast vs. west coast rivalry, in Mao and Gov't. In fact we even got our own P'Diddy, Paras. Think about Tupac's assasination and Puffy's involvement in it. Any how this is getting way to wacked, even for a stretch latex simile. Ciao |
| anepalikt | Posted
on 14-Dec-01 12:03 AM
ok that's it! too wanna be for me! |
| sfengali | Posted
on 14-Dec-01 05:59 PM
I know nepali kt, I wish my disposition was as pastoral as yours. But then again I don't keep goats precisely because someone else may get my goat easily. Don't be a hater. |
| anepalikt | Posted
on 14-Dec-01 08:11 PM
Pastoral? well, that's a new one. And boy, you ain't getting no body's goat! We are obviously nolonger anywhere near the vicinity of the topic of the first post. So I personally want to end my say here by saying, sfengali, we could go on and on and on.... but I think it is getting terribly boring and I am tiring of the juvenile exchange really. Have a nice weekend! |
| sfengali | Posted
on 15-Dec-01 12:52 PM
What's exciting Nepalikt? I am all ears illuminate me. BTW is there a Nepali party in Boston soon? Although Christmas is not a big deal for us, but then it might as well be an excuse to have a party. If anyone knows, would you kindly inform me? I have not seen nepali brownies in ages. |
| eanepalikt | Posted
on 15-Dec-01 11:15 PM
You tell us what it is is sven! You seem to have the low down on what's hot and what's not. Surely you know. |