| Username |
Post |
| ashu |
Posted
on 11-Dec-01 11:58 PM
Hi all,
Despite Arnico's labeling it as "pompous", I would like to stand by my
"product differentiation" argument and my airline analogy.
In a spirit of well, spirited kura-kani, please allow me to develop my thoughts
here.
First off, Arnico would be surprised to discover that my reasoning actually flows from his own publicly declared premise: the premise that this gbnc.org "now attracts the best and the brightest [young] Nepalis".
For the sake of analyzing consistency of beliefs, let me devise this short
thought experiment.
Now, assuming Arnico's premise to be true, would it not then make sense to
argue further that "the best and the brightest" (whoever they are -- and let's not get distacted with this point!) folks who are here want the kurakani here to be
of higher, deeper and more rigorous quality (however defined)?
If no, then Arnico should be honest enough to admit that his own premise was
a pompous one, to begin with.
If yes, then, he should have NO problem when someone else takes his
premise further to point out that in order to maintain its relatively high quality
this site needs to exercize product differentiation, and when that someone
gives the airline thing as an example.
I hope my point is clear.
That said, I would further argue that the to exercise "product differentiation"
has become urgent here because, let's face it, posters like Ranjit Rana or Anand Agarwal (based on the kind of stuff they have posted here!) can NEVER compare
to posters like Biswo Poudel or Arnico or NK or Silwalik and others.
This is the truth I have no trouble accepting.
That said, should posters like Anand Agarwal and Ranjit Rana or the usual anonymous attackers of Ashutosh Tiwari should be allowed
to post here?
My answer: Yes, yes and yes.
If they want to take full responsibilities for the contents of their postings, I, as a visitor, have NO TROUBLE accepting them as registered users, though I reserve my right to disagree with them.
But if they do NOT want to take full responsibilities for the content of their postings, then, well, I have no trouble wishing them well in that "Open Kurakani" section.
The Open Kurakani section, let us be clear, by its own nature, tends to attract
liars and smear-campaigners, and, hey, that's life.
So, I liked Arnico's idea because it satisfies what I call "product differentiation" criteria, and I have no trouble admitting that learning from peers who take responsibilities for their stupid or brilliant postings is much better than reading spineless anonymous postings of certain individuals whose sole obsession is how to defame others.
oohi
"proud to be a registered user, and proud to hang out ONLY with other resgistered users who take responsibilities for their postings".
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| anepalikt |
Posted
on 12-Dec-01 12:04 AM
Ashutosh: enlighten me here, what DOES "take full responsibility for" mean? Registered or unregistered, this is still an annonymous forum and a virtual and online one, no real names, no real accountability if people don't want. Those things cannot be mandated.
So again, please tell me how being registered means you take responsibility for what you share here?
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 12-Dec-01 12:28 AM
Hi anepalikt
I am glad that you too are a registerd user.
Welcome to the registered world!
To answer your question: There is NO hard and fast rule about this "taking full responsibility" thing. As such, there is NO precise criteria or precise guideline or one-size-fits-all stuff. It's really a matter of using your judgment as wisely as
you can. Sharpening judgment is all we can do to the best of our ability. And
that's really that.
Let me give you an example.
FIRST: Biswo, for example, is one poster I have never met. I don't even know what he looks like. But from reading his postings here, it's clear -- to me anyway -- that there is much I, as a visitor, can learn from even when I disagree with some
of his views.
Now that's a JUDGEMENT I have developed re: Biswo.
SECOND: It also makes me feel good that I can email Biswo (from the email address he has given to San) and share concerns of mutual interest. Indeed, I have emailed Biswo a few times, and he has emailed me back. This is NOT to
say that we agree with one another on all things, and that's a good thing.
Now, take FIRST and SECOND above, and what we have here is a network that would NOT have been possible had Biswo not visited this site as a registered user.
See what I mean? This is one example and others can come up with others.
And so, when Arnico talks about building up a network of young Nepalis doing different things (something I agree with), then it seems to me that one PRE-REQUISITE to start such a network among people who did not know one another before is to encourage people to stand behind what they write in public and let interested peers approach them for ideas, suggestions and so on.
After all, for those of us who want to get to know and work with more and more Nepalis who are more competent than ourselves, taking steps to get into such a network via this gbnc.org is something to be welcomed and cherished.
And so, it all comes down to making some judgment without getting tied to rigid rules and semantics.
Just my thoughts;
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| anepalikt |
Posted
on 12-Dec-01 01:02 AM
Ashutosh:
Tha's right, "It's really a matter of using your judgment as wisely as
you can." One cannot mandate it! Being registered does not necessarily make you agreeable (I guess we both agree that is not a criteria for being interesting or responsible though, thank god), trust worthy, responsible or accountable.
I guess people visit the site for different reasons. And as much as I personally like to idea of engaging with others who don't resort to juvenile and irresponsible behaviour at the drop of a hat, I also think being registered does not mean they will not do that. I have witnessed many a thread be totally perversed by "registerd" users. Also, so what if someone stands behind their word in public if what they stand behind is messed up? They might still be sick and stupid? no?
About being registered... now I am getting worried, lest you think this is a new thing for me, something to get into the ordained circle. I registered when someone posted some crap using "my" psuedonym... so I do see merit in registration. But for me registration was simply a step to stop idiots of letting me be my own idiot under my own chosen name, vs. have them make a fool of me.
Anyhow, it is late! have a nice day!
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 12-Dec-01 01:31 AM
>Ashutosh:
>Tha's right, "It's really a matter of using
>your judgment as wisely as
>you can." One cannot mandate it!
Yes.
I think, to Arnico's credit, he has been extra-careful about
"not manadting" bit, but most of you seem to have sadly missed it.
No one here is talking about mandating anything,
least of all Arnico. For God's sake, this is a voluntary
board!!
>Being
>registered does not necessarily make you
>agreeable (I guess we both agree that is not
>a criteria for being interesting or
>responsible though, thank god), trust worthy,
> responsible or accountable.
Agreed.
But this point is moot.
>I guess people visit the site for different
>reasons. And as much as I personally like
>to idea of engaging with others who don't
>resort to juvenile and irresponsible
>behaviour at the drop of a hat, I also think
>being registered does not mean they will not
>do that.
Agreed.
But once you trade in a bit of anonymity (i.e. giving
San your valid email address and all that) to be a registered
user, the likelihood of your posting sickening postings goes
down while increasing your success at networking with
others "who don't resort to juvenile and irresponsible
behaviour" on or off the gbnc.org
If this sounds like a good idea to some people, then they will
register themselves. If not, well, that's that. NO ONE is forcing
anything down on anybody's throat here.
> I have witnessed many a thread be
>totally perversed by "registerd" users.
Sure, you cannot solve EVERY problem with this registered
thing.
This register-yourself is a relative measure and NOT absolute cure
for every problem existing on this site.
I would rather have this site develop itself through repeated
incremental changes than by ONE BIG STROKE.
>Also, so what if someone stands behind their
>word in public if what they stand behind is
>messed up? They might still be sick and
>stupid? no?
See my reply above.
>About being registered... now I am getting
>worried, lest you think this is a new thing
>for me, something to get into the ordained
>circle.
No. I do not think it that way at all.
>I registered when someone posted
>some crap using "my" psuedonym... so I do
>see merit in registration. But for me
>registration was simply a step to stop
>idiots of letting me be my own idiot under
>my own chosen name, vs. have them make a
>fool of me.
Exactly!
And that was your individual step.
Now imagine, if a group of people here REQUEST other people to please
register themselves here . . . are they not taking a step forward "to stop
idiots" from posting garbage here?
I'll tell you one BIG reason why I support registration.
My dream is this: When we discuss, for example, economic issues here, I wish we could attract Dr. Ram Sharan himself here for an hour or two to answer some of our questions. I mean, why not?
When we discuss, say, human rights issues in Nepal, I wish we could invite the folks at the Human Rights Commission right here.
We can attract real-life journalists, activists, scientists and writers and artists based in Nepal to come here and share their perspectives.
And so on and on.
This is my -- as a mere visitor -- DREAM for this site: Connecting concerned Nepalis everywhere DIRECTLY with those who make and shape policies in Nepal.
Sure, I realize that such a dream is an ambitious one, and maybe even ludicrous on some level. But that's OK. I, for one, am quite used to turning ludicrously ambitious dreams into viable realities after some years.
And so, the least we could here do is START creating favorable conditions and building up credibility so that eventually -- in some years -- we can take this site ko influence even higher.
I really mean it. I wouldn't be here -- in this GENERAL forum where general issues are discussed and NOT specialized ones-- if I didn't believe in its potential myself.
oohi
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 12-Dec-01 02:34 AM
Oh, lest anyone thought I am being oh-so-goddamn-serious with all this dream stuff, let me hasten to add that I too am all for CONTINUING fun and bantering and all that here.
If anything, having two boards here is likely to INCREASE the amount of fun people can have on gbnc.org
oohi
"I am a registered user of gbnc.org; what about you?"
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| sunakhari |
Posted
on 12-Dec-01 10:07 AM
Ashu, you have forgotten to add - registering also allows a person to harrass another by emailing the person. Now, don't get paranoid and all defensive here - I am just creating another scenario!
|
| _BP |
Posted
on 12-Dec-01 11:44 AM
I guess Ashu is a little more optimistic. I just like the site because it allows me to communicate with other Nepali peers. I don't know about shaping policies and so forth. Maybe that can happen, conceivably.
|
| SIWALIK |
Posted
on 12-Dec-01 02:06 PM
So this forum "now attracts the best and the brightest [young] Nepalis."
This is what I would like to know. How many Nepalese discussion forums are there? What were the critiria used to determine this was the one attracting the so called "the best and the brightest" Nepalese? What constititutes the above said adjective? Does going to US universities meet the criteria? What else? Who is keeping track of the visitors to this website? And how is the individual merit being awarded for posting whatever that generates discussion?
I find it objectionable to label people like this. I also want to point out, as respectfully as I can, that intelligence and wisdom are not correlated. One might top in academic field or attend prestigious academic institutions, but when it comes to applying to real life problems, the so called the "best and the brightest" can be as much at a loss as those who are considered the "the worst and the dumbest." In words, if one were to use that knowledge to practical problems of Nepal, I do not think they would be any better off, by default, to fare better. What constitutes academic excellence is not necessarily transferrable to every day wisdom.
From what I have seen, there is a tendency to immediately judge new posters as someone inferior or unworthy of respect. Responses like, "Go do your own homework," or "this seems like taken from Econ 101 book," are not a measure of the "best and the brightest" people. I have no objection to people who think that they are the only ones who know what is best for the rest of us, but one day, the day shall come when the lofty ideals come crashing down and those placed in high heavens also meet mortal end.
To me it does not matter whether someone is regisered or not. If someone posts a bunch of ill-intentioned remarks, I just ignore them. Those who think that freedom is merely for the ones who are idealistic have gotten it all wrong. Freedom also means protection for Larry Flint. If someone posts malicious stuff about Ashu or others, in my opinion, it discredits the poster than Ashu, or other targeted by such postings. To me that is more an appropriate measure of being bright than suggesting that there should be classification of discussants. That is not democratic and definitely not an appropriate use of the concept of "freedom".
PEACE.
|
| tirtha |
Posted
on 12-Dec-01 02:34 PM
Siwalik wrote:
>So this forum "now attracts the best and the brightest [young] Nepalis."
Oh of course! Don't you know Siwalik that with having Ashutosh Tiwari here, we have THE best and THE brightest (and of course YOUNG too) Nepali around? ;)
|
| dariwal |
Posted
on 12-Dec-01 05:17 PM
ashu(dai),
<<"proud to be a registered user, and proud to hang out ONLY with other resgistered users who take responsibilities for their postings".
It's not that being an unregistered one,i'm sad that you said that but just wanted to make sure that you don't believe that being an unregistered (by choice, of course) dosen't mean that they do not take "full responsibility"(whatever it means).Hey, i will take a full responsibility for whatever i write (which i don't that often).
|
| ashu |
Posted
on 13-Dec-01 04:05 AM
Sunakhari,
It's great to see that you are all registered and all that.
Congratulations!!
Don't worry: As most of you know, I am quite used to my email system being hacked from time to time by the usual suspects. What else can these losers really do? We all know that only quietly paranoids abuse their computer-security knowledge to harrass other people. I wish these quietly desperate folks my
very best.
Siwalik,
Congratulations on being a registered user.
But I must tell you that you take things here too seriously for your own good.
Hey, live a little.
Have fun too. :-)
Arnico made that "best and brightest" remark in passing here once, and almost
too casually -- which is fine.
In a spirit of spirited kura-kani, I merely used that remark to make a counter-argument (see above). Truth be told, I get a kick out of seeing Arnico's
bahaving at times like a good host who's nervous that the revelry/partying
has gone out of hand :-)
So, Siwalik, relax.
No one here has gone around doing the IQ Check of everyone here.
No one is even INTERESTED in finding out who's smart and who's not here.
Still, it was great to read your posting.
Finally, Dariwal-bhai,
I read your comment.
My suggestion is: I respect your choice to do whatever you want to do. But
please get yourself registered fast. This is a request.
oohi
"Being a registered user is sexy and cool"
ashu
ktm,nepal
|
| sunakhari |
Posted
on 13-Dec-01 01:22 PM
Ashu,
I just registered there was nothing at all to rave about.
I wasn't talking about you and your experiences - I was thinking of everybody who will register.
But on the same note - personally, I don't think I would take it as you have. My reactions, oh well, we shall see when the time arrives :).
|
| Biswo |
Posted
on 13-Dec-01 03:04 PM
Relax, my friends.
Registration is worth practicing! Hey, is it true that amazon.com has free coupons
for us ?
Registered, not-registered, we will basically be same. But, yea, I am just
wondering how my mailing box is swelling these days? Any prankster out there?
|
