| Username |
Post |
| Bill O'Reilly |
Posted
on 13-Dec-01 07:55 PM
Read a very interesting discussion between Bill O'Reilly (The Factor, Fox) and Bill
Press (Crossfire, CNN).
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,39719,00.html
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 13-Dec-01 08:17 PM
This message is definitely for BPji.
See what Bill Press says to O'Reilly:
"You speak too much. You don't let others talk."(not verbatim)
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| _BP |
Posted
on 13-Dec-01 10:15 PM
Yes Biswo. I actually have seen this one already. These two are like two peas in a pod, but Bill O'Reilly can still outspeak Bill Press! You cannot feel sorry for Bill Press because he didn't get a word in edgewise. In the world these two work in, that is plain defeat.
On a different note, I like how Bill O'Reilly is focusing interest on all the money raised for the Sept 11 fund. I cannot stand how George Clooney considers himself an expert in public and charity affairs just because he is a famous actor.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 13-Dec-01 10:20 PM
BP bro:
You've been a real conservative. Welcome to Houston Medical Center :-)
Now, let me concentrate on another statement of Bill Press. When challenged
about popularity rating by Bill O'Reilly, he says, "Conservatives are intolerant.
They don't watch other's shows. That's why Ross is the #1 radio talk show host."
(not verbatim).
Let me ask you one question:
Do you watch/listen to liberal host shows?
(May be my mind is washed by Nation and other liberal propaganda, so I take
this antidote of O'Reilly and BPji sometimes. I need to know what makes some
Americans so conservative? )
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| _BP |
Posted
on 13-Dec-01 10:31 PM
Biswo, the truth is the MAJORITY of Americans are very conservative, yet it is the most liberal nation on earth.
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 13-Dec-01 10:45 PM
Bro:
You are still parrying the question like Clinton did in his grilling about Monica scandal. :-)
I agree with you. It seems majority of Americans are really conservative. Don't
know why. I am not sure if it is the most liberal nation in the world. I think
Scandanavians and other Europeans are more liberal.
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| _BP |
Posted
on 14-Dec-01 12:04 AM
Biswo, you are hurting me. Comparing a conservative like me to Clinton!
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| NK |
Posted
on 14-Dec-01 09:47 AM
_BP,
I ask you what Biswo asked you and you very cleverly (not to me, my friend)scurried around the question? do you watch/listen/read any other "liberal" show? Forget about liberal conservative. Do you ever listen to NPR?
WE know Murdoch wanted to rival CNN so he had this Fox show. It's agenda is conservative, its hosts are conservative, its philosophy is rabid conservative. That Riely guy lied to the public he is "independent" whereas he was registered as a republican in his homestate. So should not youquestion what they say in t he public? Isn't this our moral duty (ahem, ahem)?
And the US being the "most liberal"? Oh my god! You have not been or you don't read other countries' newspaper, do you my dear BP-with-the-underscore?
Do you know these republicans are the same people who were not so keen on reducing the arsenic level in your drinking water? Enron. Whose wife is in the board of directors? Which congressman bypassed the law so that they can do whatever (shady) business they were doing and make money - shit load of?
And you talk about Clinton. He was the best and the brightest that came along in a long time. He had an affair and he lied, wouldn't you if your marriage is at stake? or are your some infallible moral hero? It was exposed because the republicans hound dogs were after him the day he became president. The White Water! What a shit load of CRap!! there was nothing to be found but a good ammunition to fire at every direction whenever the hounddogs chose.
And you call yourself Conservative. Conservating here is equal to KU Klax Clan in Europe. Now, do you think you sympathize with KKK? And oh, i nearly forgot. Conservatives were for segregation and against Civil Rights. That is BLACK SHOULD NOT HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS! If given the chance, they will sell this country to the highest bidder (Bill Gates?) and make him the CEO of the Country and live on the profits of their stocks. Or, are they already doing it???
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| amina |
Posted
on 14-Dec-01 10:38 AM
I feel left out that I didn't get to post on the "special business class" kurakani :-( Must be my karma ko phal. I see I have missed out on a lot of other things too..interesting discussions.
I am still wondering how a nation where majority are conservatives (according to BP) is a liberal country. I haven't been here for long, and I must say, before I came here I had a different opinion of the americans and america. The conservatism of most people I have dealt with sent me into a massive culture shock. And I thought I was conservative...I think I hadn't quite understood the true meaning of conservatism ( a revelation for me)
And I always thought it's like that only in the central part of America..so I was hoping that maybe moving to other parts of America will make me more comfortable. And now you telling me that most Americans are like that ??? harey ram !
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| Sangey |
Posted
on 14-Dec-01 12:06 PM
Repeating the "two cow" explanation:
A REPUBLICAN: You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. So what?
A DEMOCRAT: You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. You feel guilty for being successful. You vote people into office who tax your cows, forcing you to sell one to raise money to pay the tax. The people you voted for then take the tax money and buy a cow and give it to your neighbor. You feel righteous.
=====================
In my opinion, the US of A has become much more conservative than some European countries and Canada. It is interesting because this nation was founded on the protestant principle (if one is to be Calvinistic) by the people running away from the tyranny of church in the old countries, yet in the modern history, we have seen the national psyche clamoring towards the vestiges of fundamentalism that they escaped from.
America in general has been late in embracing such progressive movements such as Civil Rights, feminism, etc. The recent debates on prayer at school, NRA,anti-abortion, anti-evolution and more further exemplifies the fundamentalist's agenda.
Just this morning I was watching a talk program in CNBC on NBC's decision to start alcohol advertisements after 9pm with above 30 actors. One of the commentator, a British, was quite astounded why it is such a big deal here.
Furthermore, if we are to compare US foreign and immigration policies with its northern neighbor, Canada does seem to be more liberal, though some may claim more socialistic rather.
Now with "America's New War" it is definitely plausible to say that the USA is becoming less and less liberal in general.
It's just me blabbering, you are free to disagree.
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| _BP |
Posted
on 14-Dec-01 12:42 PM
NK, you could write all day about the bad conservatives, and I could write all day about the bad liberals. The truth of the matter is, I am right of center and you may be left of center. And I don't agree with the conservatives all the time either. I am very pro-choice on the abortion issue for instance.
And you must be joking if you don't think the US is the most liberal country in the world. It may not be as liberal as the "hip liberals" want it to be, but it is by far the most liberal society in relation to the rest of the world. If you don't agree with this, we really cannot converse any further. And the bottom line is that most Americans are conservatives. When push comes to shove, even the trendy liberals become conservatives...and trust me, if and when it comes down to fighting for your survival (and of course non one wants to fight...peace is always good...this is an axiom that no one, even conservatives need to be reminded of but liberals keep muttering like it's some kind of mantra), you don't want a liberal in the foxohole next to you.
Another point...I refuse to discourse with people (most of whom happen to be extreme liberals) who don't want to risk anything for their beliefs. For example, if you are not willing to risk your life for your country and society in battle, then you have no basis to argue with someone who is. If you don't risk anything, then you have no basis for arguing. Here I am getting at the liberals who are always "anti-violence."
But NK, I don't want you to reply with statements that are obviously right and I will agree with. There are bad conservatives, as there are bad liberals. But if both didn't have their good aspects, there wouldn't be so many people on each side would there?
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| nobody |
Posted
on 14-Dec-01 02:35 PM
I don't quite agree with the dichotomy of moral principles when applying to two sets of people. Rielly lied and Clinton lied too. That's it. It's the question of ethics though. And I don't know which is less harmless? For now, I'll lean towards Rielly though, because I know it's his "opinion" and I can agree or disagree with him, irrespective of what he wants me to. Clinton really didn't give anybody that choice. Next point wouild be: Doesn't our stand on conservatism change when we discuss xenophobia in Europe?
On the other hand, I don't agree liberals becomes conservatives. In fact it's the other way round. It's a slower process though, something to do with conservatism and its difficulty with abrupt changes. The change, not without retaining some of its value though. And assimilating only the good. Evolution.
We're making broad sweeping statements about conservatism better/worse than liberalism or one part of the world being less liberal. It might be interesting if you named the characteristics and compared for both of them.
What is better, liberal/conservative, what is more liberal, America or Europe?
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| sally |
Posted
on 14-Dec-01 03:12 PM
BP wrote to NK that the US is "by far the most liberal society in relation to the rest of the world. If you don't agree with this, we really cannot converse any further."
I can't quite figure out if the logic behind this statement is closer to that used by Marxists (eg, "Marxism is scientific because we say it is, and if you don’t agree, you’re just blind") or to that used by fundamentalist Christians (eg "The Bible is true because we say it is, and if you don’t agree, you’re just blind.”)
At any rate, let me just ask how the US–the government, presumably, since BP argues (rightly, I think) that Americans are generally on the conservative side–is somehow more liberal than Sweden, where there are 15 months of paid child-care leave, over half of births are outside of marriage, and marriage is legally offered to gay foreigners but is generally“viewed as superfluous,” according to Newsweek? And more liberal than Britain or Canada, with subsidized health care? How and when did the US become the world’s most liberal nation??????
Unless you mean the US is pretty strong on "trade liberalization." I guess it depends on the meaning of "liberal."
Btw, Sangey, LOVED the cows.
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| _BP |
Posted
on 14-Dec-01 03:28 PM
Sally, what you did is exactly how a lot of arguments go back and forth here. Perhaps you are just trying to be cantankerous for the benefit of spirited exchanges here in Kurakani. I was telling NK that if she did not believe in the basic concept that I think the US has the most liberal policies overall than any other country, in a cosmopolitan sense of the word, then we can no longer argue anymore because we have a difference of opinion at a very fundamental level. I am not trying to say that she is blind, like a Marxist or a fundamentalist. Come on.
Furthermore, everyone's definition of "Liberalism" seems to be different. Would you rather live in the US or Sweden?
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| sally |
Posted
on 14-Dec-01 05:35 PM
BP,
Sorry to be "cantankerous." I guess it's that Bill O'Reilly influence in the name of this thread ...
But I am curious how you've arrived at your conclusion that "the US has the most liberal policies overall than any other country, in a cosmopolitan sense of the word." (I'm not sure what a "cosmopolitan" sense of the "liberal policies" is, though. Clarification?)
It's true that everyone's definition of "liberalism" seems to be different. But if you're referring to social policies, in my view, that would be hard to prove. That's why I gave the Swedish example. If you're referring to social attitudes, you've admitted that these are NOT liberal by saying that Americans are inclined to be conservative.
So how is the US the most liberal country? Perhaps you have some other meaning in mind that I'd agree with. Or maybe you'd convince me that I'm wrong. (It's happened before. Ask my husband ;-) )
Would I rather live in the US or Sweden? Well, I can't say. I've never been to Sweden and don't know much about it. On the surface, I find some of the social-welfare policies appealing. (Uh-oh, I think I just marked myself as a "liberal.") But I admit that mine is a quick reaction with a shallow basis of knowledge. And I don't know how those policies have been working. I'm vaguely aware that Britain is having trouble with its health-care system, so I know that policies whose general outlines I personally find attractive don't necessarily work out in the long run. Wish I knew more about this stuff, though.
Anyway, I don't know where I'd rather have been BORN--the US or Sweden. But as for where I'd rather live? I don't speak Swedish and probably wouldn't care the climate, so I think I'll stay in the US for now. It's not a value judgment, though.
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| _BP |
Posted
on 14-Dec-01 06:25 PM
Well, Sally. The US has a lot of conservative people, but yet it is the most liberal country in the world. I am not being contradictory. What it means is that other countries are more conservative than the US. In really most senses of the world, the US allows much more economic, religious, health, educational, political etc freedom. I wish I had time to write specifically about each aspect, but really I am not trying to convert anyone to my point of view. This is what I believe. I don't claim to be a know-it-all, but I do have a significant amount of experience having lived in a lot of places, growing up as a diplomat's child. The US is the most tolerant and, well "liberal" nation by far. Anyone can argue about the KKK, and the racists here etc. These arguments are no brainers. Those are bad things. But let's even just look at ourselves. Nepali people (our own families for example) are far less tolerant than Americans when it comes to foreigners, foreign customs, etc. The same holds for Europe. They are extremely entrenched in their own values. Economic, health and other such issues? You be the judge. I have made up my mind.
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| cyberpal |
Posted
on 14-Dec-01 06:54 PM
_BP
I agree with your view. I have an asian american professor married to a swiss woman. The last time he visited me we had discussion on similiar topic. He has stayed in his native country, in Switzerlan and in America.
His exact words were "for an immigrant no other countries comes even close to America as far as opportunity, carrer advancement etc is concerned". So its liberal in that sense.
But in other aspects such as homosexuality, children out of wedlock etc. other european nations are far ahead of America. I've yet to know ofa country in Europe that bans selling alchohol on Sunday.
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| cyberpal |
Posted
on 14-Dec-01 07:00 PM
I've yet
>to know ofa country in Europe that bans
>selling alchohol on Sunday.
I'm implying MA as an example in that line.
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| anepalikt |
Posted
on 14-Dec-01 08:21 PM
N
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 14-Dec-01 08:36 PM
Arguing with BPji is often ok, since he loves to go along. But , guys, he is big time
O'Reilly fan. While defending O'Reilly, he can even go to say that "USA is the most
liberal nation in the world".
I think BPji at least needs to tune to NPR while driving. Honest suggestion.
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| anepalikt |
Posted
on 14-Dec-01 09:11 PM
NK: I was really hoping for a minute that you were kidding when oyu said Clinton was the best and the brightest to come around for some time! But alas, I am shattered!
Bill Clinton was the biggest looser that came around for a long time is more like it. He was a mysogynist. He lied. And guess what, lying is not a no-big-deal issue. If you a in a court... that is called perjury. And He DID NOT JUST HAVE AN AFFAIR. It is called sexual harassment, rape and coersion. Maybe you are saying that ALL the women who came forward to say they were either accosterd by, solicited by, forced by or voluntarily had sex with the freak were lying and that there were no issues of power involved here. In that case, I rest my case and I have nothing to say.
Another thing, i gave up on the American Feminist movement when Gloria Steinem came to his defense and support!! LOOSERS and Traitors! They just proved the theory that mainstream meminism in America is the mainstay of privildged, white, upper class women, who are in bed with the System!
And it is because of Bill Clinton and his cronies that the world is in the current situation. If he had not squandered his time in office, being Mr.Slick Willy, well maybe he would have taken the first bombings of the World Trade Center and the African American Embassies seriously and doen somethign about it! Also, maybe there would be many more Washington and White Water insiders alive still had it not been for himand his buds!! Freedoma nd civil liberties! Horseshit! Maybe if it were not for him there also would not have been as many phone taps during his tenure than any other time in the history of this country.
And you are saying that it is the conservatives who would sell this country to Bill Gates? My god! But you know what, that might not be a bad idea! woudl sure beat NAFTA! And by the way, wasn't it the Democrats who sabotaged the whole campaign finance reform bill? who is selling to the big corps?
In my humble opinion, the liberals in this country are driven by guilt, fear and a sense of self righteosness (Sangey, nice analogy). And BP, I totally see most of what you're saying!! Right on!
Once I consiered myself a liberal (BTW, I am not a conservative now either), but now I find that unfortunately, the term has been coopted by soft bellied, middle aged, white people who think they got it all together and know what it to be black or brown "because they feel your pain".
Big fat baloney!
It is one thing to critique the oppressive system and quite another to acknowledge your own priviledge, move beyond slef-righteous "awareness", apathy and finger pointing to action and accountability. Personally, I have had much better luck dealing with "conservatives" that lilly white liberals and the hordes of Jesse Jackson types. At least with the former I know what they think and what they will do.
And guess what I listen mostly only to NPR, watch PBS, and when I do read, I like to read the Nation, New Yorker, Washington Post and other liberal media. However, that does not mean I belive their propogand either.
NEWS FLASH: News media around the world is about propoganda folks, not what happened in reality!!! There is really no No-spin zone!
I like Bill O'Riley's obnoxious style and the questions he asks. He is not Charlie Rose, but that's not what he is trying to be.
Most American are so black and while so this or that, so democratic or republican, so liberal or conservative. The world is not black and white and unfortunately I find both ends of the spectrum seem to think they are the only one who got it all straight.
I find it offensive when "liberal" accuse "conservatives" of being the KKK. That is crock of shit. And likewise, liberals are not all "treehuggers" either. Hardly. And when you say, liberals are we talkgin the democratic party type of liberasl or the Ralph Nader, liberterian types?
I think, this liberal conservatie debate merely just clouds important issues and because people hide behind their parites and alliances and fail to seek common good, the majority, the normal working people who work everyday to pay their bills and taxes, suffer.
THE END!
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| _BP |
Posted
on 14-Dec-01 09:36 PM
Couldn't resist jotting a quick reply to Biswo. Of course I have listened to NPR my friend. I didn't like Bill O'Reilly's show because his was the only show I have ever seen or heard! Honestly, I think I am more anti-hard core liberal than I am conservative. Don't think I am not anti-hard core conservative either though.
PS, I think ANepaliKT has written basically what I would have said if I had time and the power to better organize my thoughts! Liberals love to label conservatives as the enemy, but while they talk, the conservatives do. As Biswo thinks that I am a hard-core conservative because I watch Bill O'Reilly. His is the highest rated news-opinion show in his category Biswo.
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| visitor |
Posted
on 15-Dec-01 11:36 PM
>Read a very interesting discussion between
>Bill O'Reilly (The Factor, Fox) and Bill
>Press (Crossfire, CNN).
>
>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,39719,00.
>html
The whole discussion about people watching particular shows necessarily does not label one as conservative or liberal. Ofcourse,here in the states like anywhere else, there are alliances every network news pays. I personally think CNN has more propaganda floating around than its inferior rivals like Fox News. The point to remember is how one(viewer) strongly or otherwise buys those opinions presented during the show. News corporations do not provide thruth in absolute scale. Most of the time it is an exaggeration inorder to heighten or weaken the magnitude of event for sole benefit of the corporation. Afterall it's like any other business, profits comes before everything. If u guys are really interested in unbiased opinion check out www.independent.co.uk
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| 93454475 |
Posted
on 16-Dec-01 01:02 AM
anepalikt-- when you are young you are a liberal, when you get older you become more conservative..... looks like time has changed you.
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| anepalikt |
Posted
on 17-Dec-01 11:40 AM
Thanks for your vote of confidence, 93454475:
As I wrote elsewhere in another thread, I am find as I grow older the role of the crochety old woman is a very comforting thing indeed!! That means I have low tolerance for know-it-all upstarts who think they got it together! I think you know who I am referring to here! If not let me know.
:)
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