| Username |
Post |
| sally |
Posted
on 20-Dec-01 11:55 AM
The Sameer Khakurel interview made me wonder how many Nepalis in the US put up Xmas trees, why, and what others feel about it.
There was a Norwegian family who lived behind us in KTM, a practicing Christian, and they'd never even get tika because it violated their beliefs. While not all Christians feel that way, I think it shows something about the innate differences between Hinduism/Buddhism and Christianity
We have a Christmas tree with lots of made-in Nepal ornaments, including a Durga riding her tiger. My sister-in-law is Jewish (my mother calls our family the United Nations) and says her parents always told her to never, never go the route of making a "Hannukah Tree" with blue-and-silver lights and stars of David for ornaments, because it would be a denial of her culture. So when I think about it, I'm sort of mixed about having Durga on the Xmas tree ...
Anyway, I wonder if people think that putting up an Xmas tree is going too far. What have other people done, and what have you observed in your own communities?
###
Some responses to comments on the Khakurel interview thread (hope you don’t mind my throwing them in here):
GP, "I knew my wife was gonna kill me" isn't strong or particularly negative in English either. Someone might say, "Whoa, I should have called and said I wouldn't be home for dinner, and here it is 10:00 already! My wife's gonna kill me." No one would expect her to be waiting at the door with a meat cleaver.
Ashu said, "aren't you glad to be reconnecting to your old friends via gbnc.org?" Another good think about GBNC: I was at a wedding a week or two back from the bride's side, and it happened another poster was there from the groom's side. It was great to meet someone I felt I already knew--and who I wouldn't have met in the same way otherwise! And it's nice to know that the bride is part of such a nice family now :-)
My husband (who has posted some here in the past) also had the opportunity to chat and do guff-suff with Ashu in KTM a few months back. So in addition to being a way to reconnect across the miles, Kurukani can be a great way to break down barriers between people of different backgrounds, different family/school connections, or people who just plain wouldn't have crossed paths or, if they did, wouldn’t have known much about each other’s inner ideas. Hopefully open discussions at places like Martin Chautari are doing the same thing, in their own way.
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| sunakhari |
Posted
on 20-Dec-01 12:11 PM
Sally
I do put up one every year and it has less to do with any religion and more to be in a festive mood -yes I do own lots of smas cardigans as well ;).
My childhood was very different from an average Nepali's and my father would always get a tree on my behalf. Obviously, as children we talked a lot about xmas trees and hollys ( I had an abundant supply of the latter as well and HAVE now a gorgeous holly in my backyard) in class and therefore, my father complied with my childhood fantasies. Little did I know I would really get to see white christmas(s) every year and cried the first time I got one when I was little!!!
Your example of the Norwegian family is excellent, it does show the differences. But then, my parents were never ever THAT pious about any particular religion.
I have some ornaments from Indonesia and one of them is a flying pig, it does look out of context but heck my kids enjoyed them when they were little. Durga? sans her endowed top, she would do just fine even as an angel on the top. Although, I admit, thats going a bit too far! :). I have a doily angel with black hair ;) that I made myself.
Have you been good Sally?? I hope your list got to Santa on time...
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| cyberpal |
Posted
on 20-Dec-01 12:39 PM
I think in large part, responses has more to do with individuality rather than religion. It depends on how one views religion vs god. For me these are to separate things. Religion is man made and more of a socital moores while god is something that science cannot explain (before big bang).
Therefore I eat beef with no qualms. I celebrate dashin and tihar as well as any other religions's festivals if I happen to be there . I celebrate Christmas to join in the festive mood here.
Those who place closer association between religion and god tend to be more intolerant and even fareful of participating in other religion's festivities.
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| sally |
Posted
on 20-Dec-01 12:40 PM
Interesting, isn't it, that in the US some schools districts completely ban any outward signs of Xmas as being an example of the "establishment of religion" by the state, but in Nepal, an officially Hindu kingdom, the ordinary school curriculum teaches kids about Jesus, Mohammed, and so on.
I think banning religious expression just to avoid offending people is going too far, and is also remarkably uncreative. I'm glad that all US public schools don't follow that trend. My son goes to a very multicultural school (if I'm allowed to babble about babies here) and his kindergarten teacher has incorporated the holiday season in the curriculum in a wonderful way by inviting parents in to discuss their various religious traditions with the class. This is the wrong time of year for us to participate, but I think we'll lead the class in a Holi celebration later. Wouldn't that be fun?!?
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| trina_ |
Posted
on 20-Dec-01 02:23 PM
Sally and others,
Did you know the city council in Kensington, Maryland banned Santa from appearing during its annual tree lighting ceremony all because the presence of Santa Claus made two Jewish family feel "uncomfortable."
However, on the day of the ceremony hundreds of people (many from out of state as well) showed up in white beard and red Santa suits and paraded the streets of Kensington.
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| akriti |
Posted
on 20-Dec-01 02:46 PM
Trina_,
To my understanding the Council of Kensington,MD didn't want the presence of Santa was purely because they wanted to celebrate the heroes of Sept 11th. The part of "jewish family feeling uncomfortable" was just rumors. Correct me if I'm wrong!
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| Puru |
Posted
on 20-Dec-01 02:52 PM
I don’t think Putting up a Xmas tree is going too far and, also, don’t think it has anything to do with one’s belief and religion. It has more to do with one’s individuality.
I did put up a tree as for being on festive mood and out of respect of Holidays. I could be wrong but according to my experience and like Sameer said I also believe Nepali, especially Hindu and Buddhists are more tolerant to other religion.
Like Sally’s family (so called UN :-)) I work in IT department of 5 Staff in Boston all from different religion. We are also called and known more as UN Dept than of IT Dept in our company. My Boss is a Jewish (calls him self an unorthodox one) born and raised in NY. I manage three staff. One is a Methodist born and raised in North Carolina, another one is Buddhist born in Vietnam and raised in Boston and other one is Muslim born and raised in Pasaware, Pakistan and moved with his family to Boston in 1994.
I never gave or paid detail attention to religion until I came to USA. I think I came know and learned more about religions including my Hindu religion here in USA than back home. I don’t know but may be because I grew up in Nepal, with most of them being Hindu, and didn’t go to one of the Catholic or Christian School, I never got a chance to learn or experience other religion. My experience comes from when I came here to go to school in early 90s and working with people from other religion. I have attended few Church cerimony and attended Friday Namaz with my Muslim friend.
The reason I mentioned we, specially Hindus and Buddhists, are more tolerant to other religion is because whenever we, five of us, go to the dinner or have late night social hours on Fridays, when religion comes up on conversation, my Boss, my Methodist and Muslim staff always get into hot discussion. I got a tell you this though, It is very interesting to hear and listen to them. These people are very professional, fun to work and very trustworthy. We all get along very well. Five of us are working together since last five years. When they talk about their religion, they act and behave completely different than the people I know them.
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| ashu |
Posted
on 21-Dec-01 07:38 AM
Hi Sally and others,
In Kathmandu too, I have seen many X-mas trees on sale this time around. The other day, I was at "Himalayan Java House" in Thamel -- a sort of Starbucks-meets-Olive Garden-type-of-a-place -- and there was this big X-mas tree, all festooned with trinkets and all that, right next to the cash-counter. Its manager and waitpersons are all Nepalis.
Newspapers here these days are awash with X-mas party announcements at various hotels.
Almost all craft shops in Kupondole and Lazimpat areas sell stuff that has something to do with the X-mas theme. It's obvious that the expat community
in Kathmandu buys a lot of these arts and craft pieces.
**********
Sally wrote:
So in addition to being a way to reconnect across the miles, Kurukani can be a great way to break down barriers between people of different backgrounds, different family/school connections, or people who just plain wouldn't have crossed paths or, if they did, wouldn’t have known much about each other’s inner ideas.
***********
Very well said. This break down of "barriers between people of different backgrounds, different family/school connections" is what that's needed
more and more among us Nepalis.
Openness is the strength of gbnc.org. I myself have made a number of friends of various interesting backgrounds via gbnc.org, and these are people I wouldn't have met had it been for this Web site. So, San along with GBNC folks are to be thanked for allowing everyone -- in and out of Boston -- to freely post stuff here.
oohi
ashu
ktm, nepal
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| villageVoice |
Posted
on 21-Dec-01 10:27 AM
Sally, Ashu and all:
Talking about United Nations, that's what my teacher called our class last fall. "This is my United Nations." And we had a great Thanksgiving party at his place. Everyone liked bara and aluko achar my wife and I made.
Back to my class. People from a French TV channel (we came to film our class) were thrilled to get a mix of France, Korea, Norway, Spain, Argentina, Greece, Mexico, and of course Nepal within a classroom. That's not all. Among four American students, one was Jewish, another Italiian, and there was a Mormon, and a Korean.
Pity that we didn't discuss our background much that semester. But by the end of second semester, many of us had become good freinds, and shared some of our cultural events. I invited them to celebrate Tihar with my family this year and they loved it. Funnily, I have found foreign students more open to this idea of cross-cultural interaction than American students. Not to take anything away from some of my liberal American friends who can never have enough about Nepal. One even knows the members of royal family by name. Thanks to Deependra. May his soul rest in peace.
On a more provocative topic of X'mas celebrations among Nepalis...Yes, I have a little Christmas tree in my apartment too. The kids love it and we are holding a little Nepali party tonight in our neigborhood so that the kids can exchange gifts and make some noise. Time and again I come across American friends who tell me, "You guys are really cool."
While I have never doubted the sincerity of their appreciation, my reactions to such compliments are mixed. That said, the "coolness" does give us a head in assimilating in new cultures and making friends with foreigners. I have had no qualms about attending sermons and listening to imams after Sept 11.
A colleague, an Indian Brahmin, asked me the other day, "Do Brahmins in Nepal eat meat?" I found that question really funny. She is a strict vegetarian herself, and was kinda surprised when I told her, well, most do. Isn't Nepal supposed to be the world's only Hindu kingdom !
A lot of Nepalis I have met in the US seem to like the way Indians manage to remain "very Indian" in the US. Yes, they are a big community and have the critical mass, if I may, to continue with their home habits. And I kinda envy them that. But I get very disturbed whenever I encounter ethnic chauvanism, especially among large communities - the Chinese, Indian and Korean.
What do others feel about this? What is your experience? Have you encountered this phenomenon among students, or ethnic communities at large? I would like to hear from you.
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| sunakhari |
Posted
on 21-Dec-01 11:20 AM
wow:
Village Voice - its like opening a pandora's box!
my little comment for the time being is = what disturbs me greatly is very "ethnically inclined" people giving you a sermon on how bad it is to eat beef....rest to follow.
You bet I have loads to say :).
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| sally |
Posted
on 21-Dec-01 01:32 PM
Village Voice, an interesting response, and interesting questions!
You wrote: “Funnily, I have found foreign students more open to this idea of cross-cultural interaction than American students.”
Definitely. Foreign students are people whose horizons have just been remarkably expanded, and their eyes are wide open to the world. They probably started out as more self-confident and possibly more mature (at least in some ways) than their American peers or they wouldn’t have dreamed of going so far from home.
But for the run-of-the-mill American undergrad (and maybe even grad students), a foreign student is this mysterious, alien creature whose English is hard to understand, often dresses funny, and doesn’t seem to have much sense of humor.
Did you know that humor is apparently one of the last things people acquire in language learning? According to the one of the more established tests of language ability, humor is at a very high level of fluency, even higher than abstraction.
Also, a lot of these kids who view foreigners as invisible have never left the US, may never have even interacted with people from other economic backgrounds, and are still in that high-school mode of worrying about being cool.
Ah, the whole concept of "cool." I do think coolness tends to be equated with Americanization. Too bad. I see that a lot in the media, too. A positive report about another country will often have lots of references to cybercafes, jeans, and listening to American pop. As if Westernization is some sign of a country’s respectability and “coolness." (Funny how that conflicts with all the theoretical interest in multiculturalism.)
Negative reports, on the other hand ... I just saw a photo, in The Economist or Newsweek, of women wearing hijab in an urban Malaysian plaza, surrounded by modernistic skyscrapers. The point wasn’t explicitly made, but it was being used as an example of the possibly dangerous backwardness that lurks in the heart of countries that seem “developed.” As if it's uncool to dress differently than the world's biggest economic powers. Yuck, what a rotten message to send.
I've noticed that, in Nepal, even the least educated people are always so open to foreigners. Maybe cuz Nepalis are curious about the outside world. Who wouldn't be, if you spent all your life in a teeny little country that you've been told is underdeveloped and poor compared to the places those foreigners come from? Whereas Americans have this immense country, grow up hearing they dominate the globe--"We're number one! Yay team!"--and so on. So why think about the rest of the world?
I hope that will change with all the focus nowadays on multiculturalism in education. At least that's a step.
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| villageVoice |
Posted
on 21-Dec-01 02:38 PM
Sally wrote:
I didn't know. But I kinda realize what the means. I have had some embarrassing "lapses" during conversations, especially when I am not talking one-on-one. Say in a group of American friends. I am suddenly not there ###???!!!
That I would say applies more to undergrads. Fortunately for me, most of my classmates are well travelled. Of course, Nepal is just Mt. Everest to all of them, including the teachers. But they have been to Europe, Israel, and parts of Asia.
Never realized Asia to Americans is just Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and China. I actually got into a minor trouble with a professo when I wrote a paper on Asians. I assumed that the he would understand what I meant by "Sept 11 backlash against Asians." His response: "I thought the Koreans and Chinese are pretty well off and vibrant communities...." I realized we were speaking different languages. I rewrote the paper.
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| sally |
Posted
on 21-Dec-01 04:01 PM
Doesn't that drive you CRAZY?
One anecdote: When we lived in university family housing, one of the long-time residents had spent a lot of time and (amazingly) money in renovating and beautifying her little university-issue apartment. When her hubby finished his MA and they prepared to move for his PhD, at Harvard, she sat down and chatted with a good friend of mine, an American married to a Nepali.
Future Harvard Wife: Oooh, I hope the next family who lives here isn't ASIAN. They use so much fish sauce when they cook. It really stinks up a place.
My friend: Excuse me, I take offense at that. My husband is Asian.
Future Harvard Wife: No, he isn't. He's from Nepal.
My friend: Ummm ... Nepal is in Asia.
Future Harvard Wife: Well, that's not what I mean. I mean, you know, ASIAN! Korean, Chinese.
My friend: Then what's my husband? He was born in Asia.
Future Harvard Wife: Well, I still say your husband isn't Asian.
So all you folks in Boston, keep an eye out on the Harvard quad for some real bright people (on paper at least) with a real bad sense of geography and equally poor sensitivity ... Sigh.
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| Trina_ |
Posted
on 21-Dec-01 04:58 PM
Sally, it's not just the Americans or the Westerners who think that Nepalese
aren't Asians because I remember in high school when an "Asian" girl of
Thai descent asked me if I considered myself Asian or Indian. I found her
question to be very amusing and I laughed at her at first but then I realized
that the girl's question stemmed out of pure ignorance so I felt obligated
to explain to her that I was born in a country called Nepal and that Nepal
was located in the continent of Asia. But I don't think her and her "ASIAN" counterparts truly understood why I looked so "non-asian" yet came from the
same continent as them.
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| U2 |
Posted
on 21-Dec-01 11:24 PM
Talking about UN kind of classes, there is one institute called AIT in bangkok, where probably a largest number of nepelese are studying (in masters and doctorate) in any one institute outside Nepal. Nepelse students get opportunity there to mix probably with a largest mix of foreign students, which range from from Tonga, Cambodia, Laos to Iran, France, Belgium and more. Not many Americans though.
Ashu, I remember I read once your article on a fictious conversation between a nepelse and a forigner, perhaps, you should post it again here for all of us to reenjoy.
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