| Username |
Post |
| U2 |
Posted
on 02-Jan-02 04:09 AM
Makes me wonder, CK Lal has no gut to spell out the name of KTM Post directly, but he is bashing the post for the same reason !! From Nepali times#74 The paradox of Power CK LAL The press has its own can of worms. The tycoon press has so much at stake that it can’t afford to oppose tyranny. Opposing a democratic government is relatively safe—there are courts, the society, and the world community to take resort to when the going gets tough. But when faced with threats from insurgents, mafia, market or the military, more often than not, the media barons buckle. This was their behaviour when insurgents had a free run. They failed to recognise the sickness in society and prevented the government from administering small doses of bitter medicine—like the Internal Security Act—in the name of a “freedom” that was held prisoner by the rebels. Now that the patient is under anaesthesia and being operated upon, it’s unlikely that they will raise their voice for its life. The tycoon press may turn around and do a tap dance as asked, but the small voices of Bimarsha, Deshanter, Budhbar or Mulyankan cannot be drowned out by either the state or the insurgents’ propaganda. Then there are students’ associations, trade unions and maverick thinkers who shine brighter, the darker it gets. When society starts to look for people like these, it means times are desperate.
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| ashu |
Posted
on 02-Jan-02 05:40 AM
Is Kantipur Publications a big, for-profit media house? Yes. Is Kantipur Publications the ONLY big, for-profit media house in Nepal? No. No. And No. So, what are some of the other big media houses? The Himalmedia Group, for one; the one that publishes CK Lal's writings. And the Kamana Group, for another. And there are a few other small players. So, logically speaking, when CK Lal says that "[t]he tycoon press has so much at stake that it can’t afford to oppose tyranny", it's not really clear -- to this reader anyway-- WHICH tycoon press he is talking about. Or maybe I am just too dumb to read and understand CK Lal's writings! I mean, is he talking about all the big "tycoons"? Or, is he talking about one or two big houses in particular? Does he have a solid example in mind -- an example he somehow fails to share with us readers? Or is he just giving a general gaali to all -- in which case, his thoughts on the matter need to be taken ONLY as entertainment as NOT as serious thoughts? I mean, what is it? On a larger note, after having read the works of too many columnists in Nepal, I have discovered that this sort of (delibarate?) obfuscation/unclarity/generalized "gaali" falls well-within their standard column-writing tool-kit. And why not? Consider the unilateral benefits of such an approach. This way, to take the above CK Lal example further: a) Notice that C K Lal does NOT need to get his facts or evidence right. All he needs to do is use some good public-spirited writing to convey some vague uneasy but TRUE perception that something bad is out there. In other words, dressed-up truisms -- and NOT analyzed thoughts -- is how he serves up his version of the truth. b) Notice too how CK Lal gets to speak -- on behalf of you, me and the public -- ill of the "tycoon press" in a general way without anybody in particular being able to hit back at him with better arguments and facts. [I mean, in this example, I cannot imagine, say, The Kathmandu Post actually protesting, without CK Lal's quickly backing off to a safe corner to say, "Well, where is YOUR name in my that column, huh? Or do you consider yourselves to be the tycoon press?"] CK Lal is a master of this kind of what I call "no way out" circular arguments based NOT on reason and evidence but perceptions and truisms. c) Notice that CK Lal does NOT need to work hard, dig up facts, collect evidence, do some research and argue a point or counter-point of view. All he has to do is rely breezily on his own general knowledge, public perceptions of this and that, and a dose of unchallenged truisms. Throw in some good editing, and you have a standard CK Lal column. Finally, a confession: On a personal level, I am very fond of CK Lal. He's a great guy with a ready laughter and a mischievous bent of mind. He's also a lot of fun to be with. I also ENJOY his writings: they are always well-written (well, well-edited, anyway!). But I read his pieces NOT for insights, NOT for new views , nor too for well-argued unorthodox ideas. I read his pieces for PURE ENTERTAINMENT, and in that, thank god, he never disappoints me. ***************** Finally: [Last Sunday, there was this huge LAUNCH party of The Himalyan daily English newspaper at Hyatt Regency Hotel near Bauddha. In attendance were ALL the big politicians and bureaucrats who are -- if Kantipur Publications is to be believed -- supposedly OPPOSING that very newspaper's existence for being an Indian-backed venture!! Oh well] oohi ashu ktm,nepal
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| ashu |
Posted
on 02-Jan-02 06:15 AM
Oh, I should clarify that though I have friends working in various publications in and out of Kathmandu, I, myself, am NOT beholden to any publication. My comments on C K Lal are here -- strictly as a reader and as someone who also knows him personally -- to push the envelope to point out that: a) you can genuinely like someone as a person. b) and still disagree with his or thoughts/ideas and views Or vice versa of (a) and (b) above c) and still remain on generally good, friendly terms without getting all emotionally hijacked, mentally riled up and taking "badala" and the rest . . . Let's see how things unfold, and I may learn some additional lessons about the nature of public discourse in and among Nepal communities. oohi ashu ktm,nepal
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| villageVoice |
Posted
on 02-Jan-02 01:44 PM
Ashu, I know what you are trying to say. I am not talking about C. K. Lal here. As someone who's had a fairly long exposure to nepal's corporate culture, it's not always been easy for me to make people see that I genuinely like them as person, but don't necessarily look up at them as professionals. It's pretty much a black-and-white world out there. Either you are with me, or you are NOT with me.
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| Nepe |
Posted
on 02-Jan-02 04:27 PM
Ashu wrote- >c) Notice that CK Lal does NOT need to work hard, >dig up facts, collect evidence, do some research >and argue a point or counter-point of view. All he >has to do is rely breezily on his own general >knowledge, public perceptions of this and that, >and a dose of unchallenged truisms. Throw in >some good editing, and you have a standard >CK Lal column. True indeed. But isn’t it true for all journalists in Nepal ? >b) Notice too how CK Lal gets to speak -- on behalf >of you, me and the public -- ill of the "tycoon press" >in a general way without anybody in particular being >able to hit back at him with better arguments and >facts. [I mean, in this example, I cannot imagine, >say, The Kathmandu Post actually protesting, >without CK Lal's quickly backing off to a safe >corner to say, "Well, where is YOUR name in >my that column, huh? Or do you consider >yourselves to be the tycoon press?"] Another candid observation about Nepali journalist’s compulsion to ‘be on the safe side’. I appreciate Ashu’s frank comments pointing to the weakness and flaw of CK Lal’s writings (which I assume can be said of other Nepali journalists too). But I can not help noticing Ashu being silent about the original question itself, whether Kantipur Publications (or whichever tycoon ) can not afford, for its survival, to oppose a suppressive government (my own interpretation). I hope everybody agrees that, after emergency, KTM Post and its sister publications have turned themselves into ‘Gorakhapatra’. I hope to hear Ashu’s comment on this. VillageVoice wrote: >it's not always been easy for me to make people >see that I genuinely like them as person, but don't >necessarily look up at them as professionals. It's >pretty much a black-and-white world out there. Either >you are with me, or you are NOT with me. You like the person- WHITE You are not sure about his/her professionalism – BLACK These two colors do not mix to make GRAY. They remain separate and together, compartmentalized. I am sure GM has things to say on the terminology.
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| Nepe |
Posted
on 02-Jan-02 06:58 PM
Oops.. I mean GP, not GM. In a separate thread, GPji argued that there are GRAY zones. I was indicating that. Nepe
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| Biswo |
Posted
on 02-Jan-02 09:22 PM
I am a fan of CK Lal's writing. I read his columns in Nepalitimes regularly.I liked his article about Tikapur, about the eerie silence in the Maoist infested hills of Sindhupalchouk, and ,guess what, I love to read his conservative views, even TKP bashing.He is not just another jealous writer, and he writes something 'with his own name':-) When writing against Maoist atrocities, he demonstrates enough guts. But this particular posting is not agreeable, and I agree with Ashu's comment. I also appreciate Ashu for trying to point out how there exists only black and white perspective in Nepal. I am also sad about CK Lal's implicit appreciation for, and even call to resuscitate, Internal Security Act in the article among other things. Now it is already emergency anyway, why is he talking about the defunct(isn't it?) Act? As about TKP, it seems CK Lal ji doesn't understand that the government 'which has courts, constitution etc' is acting as if it doesn't have them right now. Journalists including those of Kantipur PUblications were rounded up and were attempted to try for subversion in the past, and he surely knows this. Maoists are also attackign press, but it is the government which is harsher. SO, writing against the government is not a safe game anymore. I think, TKP is very firm in its democratic ideals, and people need to appreciate it. So, CKji needs to show his guts and rather than dishing out platitudes about how tycoon press is becoming opportunistic, he needs to go to detail. Otherwise, why should we consider him so respected one?
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| ashu |
Posted
on 03-Jan-02 04:01 AM
Nepe wrote: ************ But I can not help noticing Ashu being silent about the original question itself, whether Kantipur Publications (or whichever tycoon ) can not afford, for its survival, to oppose a suppressive government (my own interpretation). I hope everybody agrees that, after emergency, KTM Post and its sister publications have turned themselves into ‘Gorakhapatra’. I hope to hear Ashu’s comment on this. ************ Well, I am not sure I have much to add to this. I mean, Kantipur Publications -- like any big media house in Nepal or elsewhere -- is a for-profit business with a non-profit public face. That means, at the end of the day, KP will put profits (revenue minus cost) ahead of anything else -- or else they will find it hard to meet the payroll, pay the printers and so on. About this, I have no illusions, and I am NOT, unlike some of my friends, going to argue for more of what is called 'civic journalism' (whatever that means!) in times of Emergency like this. A case in point: It takes money, big money, to send a reporter or two to places like Rolpa, Rukum, Jajarkot and to many other places in, say, Far Western Nepal where this Emergency has wreaked much havoc than is generally assumed. From news ko point of view, such independent reports carry enormous value and interest to all and even serve some grand public service function. But from a financial point of view (i.e. chartering helicopters, doing the insurance and so on), gathering such news is damn costly. Meantime, it's much cheaper and a lot less risky to play the Gorkhapatra game by reprinting the government's version of what happened, and let it be at that. Unfair, you say. But that is, whether you like it or not, private-sector media for you. And so, I am NOT disappointed with Kantipur's NOT trying to rock the boat at all and be more like Gorkhapatra. oohi ashu ktm,nepal
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| Nepe |
Posted
on 03-Jan-02 12:41 PM
Ashu wrote- >Unfair, you say. But that is, whether you like it or not, private-sector media >for you. And so, I am NOT disappointed with Kantipur's NOT trying to rock >the boat at all and be more like Gorkhapatra. I can not speak for Ashu, but me ? I am VERY disappointed. As a conscious consumer I demand a quality product from Kantipur publications. What they are throwing at us are crap. Can I say that ? Okay, I undestand a for-profit business puts the profit in front of everything else. But this is not the end of the story. What about customers' story ? Do not they put the quality of the product in front of everything else ? Why reluctance to address this part ? So, the big question is what kind of press public deserve ? Uncompromised, independent, FREE FREE FREE . I hope Ashu is not saying that because of the emergency situation, Nepali public should/would not get free press. And there is journalistic standard/ethics/Dharma. In no condition it should be compromised. Press should not only provide information, it should fight for its freedom too. I pay the private-sector media for that. The money I pay to buy newspaper comes with this contract. Okay, these are not organized thoughts. But I sense there is something seriously wrong to stand by a compromised press. Now I prefer to read many CK Lal dressed-up 'truisms' than Ashu Tiwari 'realism'. Nepe
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| ashu |
Posted
on 03-Jan-02 09:38 PM
>As a conscious consumer I >demand a quality product from Kantipur >publications. What they are throwing at us >are crap. Can I say that ? Oh, you can say that all right. But is it going to make any difference to Kantipur? No. Kantipur is run NOT by philosopher-kings but by money-minded byaparis (i.e. carpet exporters turned publishers). This is a FACT. And based on this fact, you can't blame such byaparis for not caring -- first and foremost -- about their profit. Of course, they'd like to dress up their concerns as "public interest" and the rest, but come on, at the end of the day, it's all business. Kantipur will do its best NOT because what its readers demand from it, but because, to some extent, what its competitions will do. And what are the competitions doing? Let's look at the evidence. Well, Space Time Dainik is no better in its coverage of the Emegency. Nepal Samachar Patra also appears to have been muzzled, and Rajdhani Dainik and Himalaya Times (Nepali) are in the same boat. So? What's the point of flying like an eagle when being a turkey is good enough? A case in point: During the Indira Gandhi-led Emergency in India, many newspapers including The Times of India, Nava Bharat Times and others BUCKLED under the stress of (self-)censorship. Only Indian Express had the guts to defy Mrs. Gandhi, and that newspaper did go on to increase its circulation, prestige and influence AFTER the Emergency. Is there a counterpart to Indian Express in Nepal? I don't think so. >So, the big question is what kind of press >public deserve ? Uncompromised, independent, >FREE FREE FREE . All that public deserves is vigorous competition in the media businesses. But look at Kantipur: These people are so insecure that they recently formed some "All Nepal Daily Newspaper Publishers Association" to safeguard their interests. Now what does that mean? t means they are more interested in erecting barriers for new publications. With attitudes ad practice like that, the idea of free and compettive press is a mirage in Nepal!! >I hope Ashu is not saying that because of >the emergency situation, Nepali public >should/would not get free press. Well, there is no such thing as free lunch. Somebody has to pay for the news. For example, look at Afganistan: Why are journalists from Time, CNN, NYT, Fox news and so on swarming that place SPENDING THEIR OWN MONEY? Because they are all private-sector media businesses FIERCELY competing for news and audience/readers. And you can't do well in that competition by offering stuff that is already available. The pressure is there to perform, and to find new leads and new info. Does Nepali press have similar pressures in this Emergency? No. Why? In part because the competition itself is muzzled -- NOT by the government, but by the players themselves. So who is shortchanged? We the people. Now we readers can rant and rave, and shout and scream, and post our feelings on sajha.com, but it's NOT going to make much of a difference UNTIL the llevel of competition heats up all the more in the media business in Nepal. >And there is journalistic standard/ethics/ >Dharma. In no condition it should be >compromised. Yeah, but so what? We all know that this "should" happen or that "should" happen. Such moral imperatives are fine, but merely saying this should happen or that should happen will get us nowhere. That's because the key question is: DOES IT HAPPEN at all? If not, then, we keep ourselves honest by searching for answers and solutions as to why that did not happen than by banging our head against the wall. >Press should not only provide information, >it should fight for its freedom too. I pay >the private-sector media for that. The money >I pay to buy newspaper comes with this >contract. In theory, yes. In practice, this doesn't happen. >Now I prefer to read many CK Lal dressed-up ' >truisms' than Ashu Tiwari 'realism'. That's fine. I have learnt to accept reality as it is. Once I accept reality, it helps me to do two things. First, it helps me look for ways to EXPLAIN that reality. Second, if that reality is not to my liking (as in this newspaper case), then it helps me to find/look for or push for BETTER alternatives for the future. What I am NOT interested is in WISHING things were different. Well, they aren't. Deal with it. If this approach is not likable to you, well, different strokes for different folks. oohi ashu ktm,nepal
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| Nepe |
Posted
on 04-Jan-02 01:41 PM
Although I did not study economics, I can appreciate the theory/law that, in market, competition determines the quality of the product. But I am not buying the theory that consumer awareness does not have any role to play. Other factors being constant, the quality of products should increase with the increased consumer awareness. Shouldn’t it ? So, I still believe CK’s bashing the KTP Post is better than Ashu’s ‘don’t –worry-approach’ even in pure economic thinking. Moral stand may not always be a good capital in the market, but you never know in case of the press. After all, idea/information is their product to sell. Ashu actually cited a good exemplary case of Indian Express. Let Nepal’s press tycoons know about it. Then there are moral questions for intellectuals who are supposed to contribute to shape the public opinion. CK is doing good job. There are things he can do more. But what he is doing is not negative. Not doing what he is doing would be negative. >I have learnt to accept reality as it is. >Once I accept reality, it helps me to do two things. >First, it helps me look for ways to EXPLAIN that reality. >Second, if that reality is not to my liking (as in this >newspaper case), then it helps me to find/look for >or push for BETTER alternatives for the future So, what better alternative have you come up with in case of CK’s bashing opportunist papers ? That should be a real contribution. I hope not that you already told and I did not get it. Nepe
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| ashu |
Posted
on 04-Jan-02 10:43 PM
>So, I still believe CK’s bashing the KTP >Post is better than Ashu’s ‘don’t –worry- >approach’ even in pure economic thinking. I am sorry if I gave you that -- "don't worry" be happy -- impression. My point was this: When talking about media owned by private parties as in the case of Kantipur, it helps us to see it NOT as a social-service thing or a charity thing or even some public good product as such but as a business pure and simple. At the ed of the day, they have to make money, they have to pay the rent and meet the expenses. Else, they will be forced out of business. Once we accept media as a business, then it makes more sense -- even if you or I do not agree with it -- as to why they do what they do. You asked: Why is Kantipur's Emergency coverage so crappy? I replied: a) to do really good job, it costs a lot of money. b) doing a good job may upset the powers that are in Nepal -- which, in turn, would be bad for Kantipur's businesses. c) since Kantipur needs to make money, it simply CANNOT afford to do (a) and (b). d) Kantipur perhaps could have been persuaded to take the risks had its competitors been doing a better job. But, as I pointed out, since that is also NOT the case, there is really little or no incentive for it to go out its way to do a really good job. So, what are we left with? Our Nepali press, to borrow Ralph Nadar's phrase from another context, has all the freedom in the world to roam freely in its cage. And I have no illusions that publishers in Nepal are in some social service/charity thing. They are not. >Moral stand may not always be a good capital >in the market, but you never know in case of >the press. After all, idea/information is >their product to sell. Ashu actually cited a >good exemplary case of Indian Express. Let >Nepal’s press tycoons know about it. It's like what Seira Tamang wrote recently in The Nepali Times. What's the point of urging Nepali civil societies to keep a watch on this Emergency when civil societies themselves have lost all the credibility? And Seira gives SOLID examples to argue her point, and not breezy generalizations and snide gaali in the CK Lal-mold. That's the kind of stuff -- conclusions backed by evidence, reason and logic -- I, as a reader would like to read from our columnists, even when I agree/disagree with them. Gaali for gaali sake is entertainment, NOT insights. >So, what better alternative have you come up >with in case of CK’s bashing opportunist >papers ? That should be a real contribution. I know what I don't want. I don't want some columnist serving platitudes day in and day out. But I don't know what I do want. And so, I don't have the answers yet. I am still thinking very hard as to how I, as a Nepali citizen who likes freedom of the press, democracy and - dare I say, libertarianism -- should CONSISTENTLY respond to this Emergency in a way that befits my values, philosophies and so on. And I am sort of stuck at a larger philosophical leve. So, I guess posting thoughts here and having people like you make critical comments would help me better my thinking . . .that's the hope anyway. oohi ashu ktm,nepal
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| GP |
Posted
on 05-Jan-02 06:09 AM
Ashu wrote: I replied: a) to do really good job, it costs a lot of money. b) doing a good job may upset the powers that are in Nepal -- which, in turn, would be bad for Kantipur's businesses. c) since Kantipur needs to make money, it simply CANNOT afford to do (a) and (b). ---- Now, ashu is supporting my long time accusations that TKP or KantiPub Editors or reporters publish advertisements in news section, i.e. paid news e.g. you pay the reporters and reporters will report it as news to illustrate as if its a ghagdan and imp. news. Do you have any clarification ? Next: What ashu means ( clause no . 3): as long as you smell money in his free economy policy borrowed from world reknowned American FREEDOM or DEMOCRACY issue on McDonald Coke or Pepsi KFC or Pizza selling and naming it a Global Free Market, you are entitled to earn, and can even forget the ETHICS in your profession and enjoy or even exploit the loopholes in law. Is Money Money the only issue in Free Market Tantra? (Oh No, I touched LAW, Mr. Anon turned to be a Paschim will have new masala in his writing ... Hey, anon aka Pashchim have a good day). GP
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| GP |
Posted
on 05-Jan-02 06:16 AM
Nepe ji wrote: Oops.. I mean GP, not GM. In a separate thread, GPji argued that there are GRAY zones. I was indicating that. Nepe ---- Yaar, Nepe ji, in digital world there is no Gray, we have only RGB. Even if we go further down, then, only 0 and 1. All gray colors are just illusions. Last week, I met a ghagdan Prof. and he asked me to go down to level of particle of lowest fractionable item, there too, I found only YES and NO. Now, I realized what you mean. Maile hare yahata, tapai sanga. Cheers. GP
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| Ramesh Lal Shrestha |
Posted
on 05-Jan-02 11:03 AM
What makes you think that C K Lal is taking a swipe at the owners of Kantipur Publications only. It is possible, if not probable, that he is taking aim at the owners of Himalmedia (as well as other large publications). Take a look at the Directors and owners of Himalmedia: Mrs. Ambica Shrestha (Chairman, holds nominal shares) of Dwarika Hotel Kunda Dixit, (Director, substantial share holding) Kanak Dixit, (Director, substantial share holding) Rajiv Rajbhandary (Director, substantial share holding) of Mercantile Group Sanjiv Rajbhandary (Director, substantial share holding) of Mercantile Group All of the owners are of established families/businesses. C K Lal is probably taking a pot shot at them as well as owners of other publications. C K Lal, while having a contract with Himalmedia as a columnist, is not an employee of the publications and is quite independent. You will see many instances where his articles contradict the line taken by the Director/editor of Nepali Times, Kunda Dixit. While I do not always agree with C K Lal, especially his articles on the events of September 11 and the aftermath, I do respect him as an honest and independent person who writes extremely well. Ramesh Lal Shrestha
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| ashu |
Posted
on 06-Jan-02 11:39 PM
Ramesh Lal Shrestha wrote: > C K Lal is >probably taking a pot shot at them as well >as owners of other publications. >C K Lal, while having a contract with >Himalmedia as a columnist, is not an >employee of the publications and is quite >independent. Well, Ramesh, interestingly, you've added force to my point. Let's take your argument further: If your public-face columnist has to take, in your own words, "pot shot" at unidentified media tycoons (whoever they may be), then that pretty much tells me a) how "independent" he really is (i.e. he can't even call a spade a spade!) b) how he serves generalizations/platitudes as his thoughts, hoping that his readers will just nod along with him. If so, why bother writing a newspaper column? > You will see many >instances where his articles contradict the >line taken by the Director/editor >of Nepali Times, Kunda Dixit. The issues are NOT about his writing skill or about his differing-from-Kunda stances. The issue is this. In his writings, he declares A. He declares B. Often in grand language, with self-consciously erudite references to everything from ancient Greece to whatever else. What's frustrating -- to this reader, anyway -- is that he then gives NO reason, offers no arguments or even gives no examples for to see how he ended up declaring A and B and the rest in the first place. This, I would think, is a DISSERVICE to readers, even when they may not agree with the conclusions. So? I have long stopped being frustrated about CK Lal's writings, and have have learnt to enjoy his writings as pure entertainment, and I'm quite happy with this. oohi ashu ktm,nepal
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| Digitized |
Posted
on 07-Jan-02 02:17 AM
Makin' Money is as much of an art as science. TKP or any other media house do (need to) test their market to make their money. So they could send people to Rolpa if they think the news is worthy (ie greater readership). Although the ultimate goal is to make money for any business: 1. It is not necessary that they will make money all the time. For eg: It took more than a year for Kantipur Publication to break-even. 2. The earning might come in the future- the expenses/costs now provide better goodwill/brand recognition. My point is this-- KP could do public-service in anticipation of better goodwill/brand recognition.
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| khakurel |
Posted
on 07-Jan-02 08:05 AM
PRAMOD KHAKUREL CK Lal’s “Worrying about Nepal in Paris” (#73) was excellent. I was honoured to meet him in Paris, and was impressed by the man’s simplicity, sincerity, good humour and his distinctive way of presenting reality. As Mr Lal explains, Nepali expatriates are not satisfied only to live in comfort. Material well-being is not sufficient for happiness. We want to do something for Nepal and return to our motherland. But can we really contribute? Often, we gather and talk about our nation’s problems, but we find no solutions. Our only conclusion is “ke garne?” Small correction: Mr Lal got my name wrong, I am Pramod, not Mahesh Khakurel. Pramod Khakurel Paris Aside from calling Pramod Khakurel Mahesh, CK Lal has commited certain mistakes in his otherwise good article on CNRS. The Centre for Nepal and Asian Studies (CNAS) is actually doing excellent work considering the constraints under it has to operate as part of Tribhuvan University. CK Lal’s charge that there has been no substantial work on Maoists is not true. There is at least one book on the Maoist movement in Nepal, for which Mr. Lal himself has contributed a chapter. Bimal Kumar Khakurel Swayambhu
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